Guild Wars 2

EDIT: I’M NOT ASKING FOR THE ZERKER META TO BE FIXED. I’M JUST RAISING CONCERNS WITH THE TRADEOFF BETWEEN DAMAGE STATS AND DEFENSIVE STATS! PLEASE READ MY POST.

Since it was recently mentioned by a dev that the Zerker meta won’t work well in raids, I’ve tried some alternative options as well as looked at a lot of various feedback posts. One thing I’ve noticed and now remember since the last time I dove into theory crafting, is that one big reason why Zerker is a thing is because all defensive stats are so ineffective.

Why should I trade 30% of my damage for 1-2k more hp, or 5-10% dmg reduction, or 1000 more heal on my #6?

That trade doesn’t make since when the biggest factor in surviving is dodging, protection, condi cleanse and knowing enemy/encounter mechanics.

So if Arenanet wants to kill/reduce the Zerker meta, they need to make a few changes…

1) reduce all base defensive stats (toughness/vitality) on player characters, so that stat increases make a larger difference.
2) increase toughness/vitality conversions (more armor/hp per point).
3) increase healing power coefficients across the board, but reduce base healing numbers to compensate.

The biggest concern after making the above changes would likely be a rise of the pvp bunker meta. This can be solved in spvp by simply adjusting the amulet numbers. In wvw, I’m not sure.

TLDR: Defensive & Offensive stats don’t trade equally. Increase the effectiveness of defensive stats so a trade makes more sense. Dodging, Protection, and Condi cleanse make all the difference in survivability. Toughness/vitality/healing power have less influence.

Thoughts!

This topic is discussed so often!

Wait for new maps and see what new meta is there

no fix that ends in unbalanced crashing needed out now!

Thoughts?

• Stats are balanced as they are because the numbers balance in a player v. player scenario.
• Raids are not fully revealed. Since ANet is taking a different tack we could wait to see if raids actually require a variety of stats.
• Anet will not be touching old dungeons. Meta does not matter much in persistent world.

Vyce.2014:

2) increase toughness/vitality conversions (more armor/hp per point).
3) increase healing power coefficients across the board, but reduce base healing numbers to compensate.

Making the most op stats even more op because 3 years old content is now considered easy. Cool cool.

Many deaded horse, much beat.

After fixing the zerker meta, could you aid ANET in fixing the [insert new meta]? And like TheRandomGuy implied, you can already facetank everything by going tanky. I don’t know why you’d like to fix something that isn’t broken.

Once you realize that DPS is part of the game, you’ll see there is no problem.

Man, so much hate.

Let’s be clear here… I didn’t say they needed to fix the zerker meta. Of course a ton of people HAVE said that and complained about that in the past. And apparently Anet is making raids hard enough that the zerker meta won’t work or some such thing…

My point is simply that just increasing incoming damage won’t be enough. Instead, i’m simply suggesting that that the stat trade should feel significant. Again, trading huge outgoing damage for minor defensive increases doesn’t make a lot of sense. Having access to the protection boon, or condi cleansing has a FAR greater impact on survivability right now than even going full defensive stats. While on the other hand, if you do go full defensive stats, your damage is garbage.

Remove dodge roll.

Vyce.2014:

Let’s be clear here… I didn’t say they needed to fix the zerker meta. Of course a ton of people HAVE said that and complained about that in the past. And apparently Anet is making raids hard enough that the zerker meta won’t work or some such thing…

The thread title is “Fixing the Zerker meta.”

Vyce.2014:

My point is simply that just increasing incoming damage won’t be enough. Instead, i’m simply suggesting that that the stat trade should feel significant.

The only reason to change the balance between bulk/glass and damage/defense would be that that balance is out of wack. PvP balance suggests that the trade-offs are fine. Thus, the problem is in the antiquated nature of the dungeon content, nerfs to dungeons, and dungeons being on farm for more that two years. Raids may fix all that, they may not.

Vyce.2014:

Again, trading huge outgoing damage for minor defensive increases doesn’t make a lot of sense. Having access to the protection boon, or condi cleansing has a FAR greater impact on survivability right now than even going full defensive stats. While on the other hand, if you do go full defensive stats, your damage is garbage.

You’re doing it wrong. Combining a bunker build (i.e., a lot of sustain on top of cleanse, boons and bulk stats) with skill (using active defense and positioning) makes for very high survivability.

Vyce.2014:

EDIT: I’M NOT ASKING FOR THE ZERKER META TO BE FIXED. I’M FINE WITH IT! PLEASE READ MY POST.

TLDR: Defensive & Offensive stats don’t trade equally. Increase the effectiveness of defensive stats so a trade makes more sense. Dodging, Protection, and Condi cleanse make all the difference in survivability. Toughness/vitality/healing power have less influence.

If you would have followed the last interviews you would know that they are looking into “Toughness” since a longer time.
And they also stated that they will change toughness to make the difference.
They are going into the right direction bringing roles like healer or tank back.
The life like Zerker knew it will end very soon and it can’t come early enough.
Anything that bring in diversity is most welcome

Kirschsahne.2081:

Vyce.2014:

EDIT: I’M NOT ASKING FOR THE ZERKER META TO BE FIXED. I’M FINE WITH IT! PLEASE READ MY POST.

TLDR: Defensive & Offensive stats don’t trade equally. Increase the effectiveness of defensive stats so a trade makes more sense. Dodging, Protection, and Condi cleanse make all the difference in survivability. Toughness/vitality/healing power have less influence.

If you would have followed the last interviews you would know that they are looking into “Toughness” since a longer time.
And they also stated that they will change toughness to make the difference.
They are going into the right direction bringing roles like healer or tank back.
The life like Zerker knew it will end very soon and it can’t come early enough.
Anything that bring in diversity is most welcome

Thanks, I wasn’t aware of that.

My only concern with looking at toughness specifically is that it currently doesn’t reduce condition damage. I’m not saying it should or shouldn’t… Just that if they only increase the effect of toughness vs DD, then condis will be an even bigger potential problem. If they DID add condi damage reduction to toughness, they could simply increase condi damage across the board since everything has toughness and it should be an easy knob to turn.

Kirschsahne.2081:

If you would have followed the last interviews you would know that they are looking into “Toughness” since a longer time.

It would be great to know what their plans are. I’m currently mapping out my next ascended set…

Gear stats shouldn’t have been a thing in the first place. That’s the only way you’ll get away from having a strict stat meta.

Making zerk unviable via content design or stat effects will just make some other set the most efficient, and nothing will change but the name.

risa.1382:

Gear stats shouldn’t have been a thing in the first place. That’s the only way you’ll get away from having a strict stat meta.

Making zerk unviable via content design or stat effects will just make some other set the most efficient, and nothing will change but the name.

Actually crit damage which was later renamed to Ferocity shouldn’t have been a thing.

The damage difference between a crit and a non-crit is extreme right now. On my zerker warrior I deal between 1200 and 3700 damage on the same mob depending on my crit and weapon damage roll. The difference is just way too massive. And that is mostly because of the multiplication modification from Ferocity.

I’m so confused. Title reads fix meta. Then you say don’t fix meta. Then you say we should have more toughness and that it should be reworked for condi damage. And healing should be scaled better. Then you say toughness effecting condi is your only concern. Then you say you’re not saying if it should or should not effect condi. Then you start talking about turning knobs.

…. I’m so lost.

brently.7946:

I’m so confused. Title reads fix meta. Then you say don’t fix meta. Then you say we should have more toughness and that it should be reworked for condi damage. And healing should be scaled better. Then you say toughness effecting condi is your only concern. Then you say you’re not saying if it should or should not effect condi. Then you start talking about turning knobs.

…. I’m so lost.

I didn’t say “fix meta” I said “fixing the meta”

The difference is that they are now doing something to change the meta. I’m simply making some suggestions on things to consider… Increasing incoming damage isn’t enough. The defensive stats should be more meaningful. Right now you trade too much damage for small defensive gains.