Guild Wars 2

I have a simple question:

In a world where there is no trinity and no real threat/aggro management, should armor classes exist? It is the opinion of many players that Guardians and Warriors are two of the most overpowered, or easily played, professions in the game. I can’t help but notice that these two professions use the Heavy Armor class.

What if armor classes were removed and every piece of gear was bumped up to Heavy stats? What if base health pools were equal across all professions, giving each equal base survivability?

As a bonus, this would open up three times the amount of armor skins to mix and match. The “battlemage” appearance would be made possible. Warriors could mix in some medium armor for the nordic look. Thieves could wear light armor robes for the “cloak and dagger” flavor.

Is this a good idea? I have no idea. It is interesting to consider though.

I second equalizing the health pools,because as it stands now warriors and necros have a huge survival advantage compared to the lowest hp classes who HAVE to gear for at least some +vit gear to even get to a level where you don’t melt in 2 hits(also you can barely get to the base warriors hp even with full vit gear).
As for armor rating i think its good as it is the heavy armor classes are the ones getting hit the most atm,so they need the slight advantage.

It is also the opinion of many players that Thieves and Elementalists are the two most overplayed and overpowered professions in the game. One is Medium armour, the other is Light.

So.

Yeah.

What’s that? Different classes have different stats and different playstyles? THIS IS UNACCEPTABLE! EVERYTHING SHOULD BE THE SAME!

Just so you know, the bonus of having better armour is to balance out the fact that both guardians and warriors suck at range. They NEED to be in melee to do optimal damage and thus will always take more hits.

Then again, the most common yardstick is WVW…

Try to keep the responses productive. I left the topic open-ended as just something to promote discussion. I make no claim that it should be changed. I fully understand that melee take more hits in every game, meaning they need higher defensives. This is especially true in PVP. However, in a game where a boss/monster could just as easily chase after a light armor profession instead of a heavy armor professions, does it still apply to PvE?

Yes? Because if you are in melee range, you are more likely to be targeted and hit?

Defences aren’t solely reliant on armour – there are many factors that contribute to a profession’s innate staying power. Elementalists can survive with the best of them, though many have said that they could use fine-tuning. Professions can be balanced towards defence in ways that don’t rely on the boost given via heavy armour – healing ability, attack negation/avoidance, debuffing the enemy to make attacks less effective – I’d argue that by making every armour possess the same innate defence stat, you’d risk marginalising other methods of defence that require a bit more thought than basic stat stacking, particularly given that you’d need to rebalance these skills in the wake of the defence increase.

Toxyn.9608:

However, in a game where a boss/monster could just as easily chase after a light armor profession instead of a heavy armor professions, does it still apply to PvE?

Actually, Heavy armour classes generate more aggro by default.

proxy.7963:

Defences aren’t solely reliant on armour – there are many factors that contribute to a profession’s innate staying power. Elementalists can survive with the best of them, though many have said that they could use fine-tuning. Professions can be balanced towards defence in ways that don’t rely on the boost given via heavy armour – healing ability, attack negation/avoidance, debuffing the enemy to make attacks less effective – I’d argue that by making every armour possess the same innate defence stat, you’d risk marginalising other methods of defence that require a bit more thought than basic stat stacking, particularly given that you’d need to rebalance these skills in the wake of the defence increase.

Very good points. Crowd control is a major part of an Elementalist’s kit, for example. My only gripe with this is that on bosses with Defiant, crowd control becomes useless unless the group knows how to manage stacks. I usually play a support role in dungeons, but when I do go full DPS for speed runs, I find I am stealing the boss/monsters’ attention almost every time.

Oglaf.1074:

Toxyn.9608:

However, in a game where a boss/monster could just as easily chase after a light armor profession instead of a heavy armor professions, does it still apply to PvE?

Actually, Heavy armour classes generate more aggro by default.

Perhaps their threat generation should be increased even further? Like I said above, the odd time I do go pure dps, I am always stealing the boss/monsters’ attention.

I did not know they had higher innate threat generation though. Thanks for your input.

So long as each profession was balanced, and still retained their unique flavour (which I feel they would), I would be completely happy with equalized health and armour.

Toxyn.9608:

Oglaf.1074:

Toxyn.9608:

However, in a game where a boss/monster could just as easily chase after a light armor profession instead of a heavy armor professions, does it still apply to PvE?

Actually, Heavy armour classes generate more aggro by default.

Perhaps their threat generation should be increased even further? Like I said above, the odd time I do go pure dps, I am always stealing the boss/monsters’ attention.

I did not know they had higher innate threat generation though. Thanks for your input.

There’s actually an intricate aggro system in the game. For example, using melee weapons generate more aggro and a Shield on top of that generates even more. Toughness is also a huge factor; the more you have, the more aggro you generate.

However, the problem is that a lot mobs have their own aggro rules; some go for the squishiest target possible (Riflemen in CM explore, for example).

LOL Imagine this on spvp. Elementalist DD with heavy armor. Let him 1vs5.

Ty but no thanks, its good this way. Heavy armor class have more defense because they do more damage in melee range. That simple.

Their armor has no bearing on how overpowered they are. If you notice something else about them, they’re both melee. Know another class that everyone else considers overpowered? The thief. Not a heavy armor class, but a melee….

What do most people feel are the most useless classes in this game? Ranger, Engineer, and Necromancer. Nothing in common but them all being ranged classes.

Melee in this game is at a distinct advantage because they were given the tools to get into melee range, cleanse away movement impairing affects with ease, there is no need for a train because they each have their own heal, and the cooldowns for these abilities are significantly shorter than the cooldowns of other classes.

This is why the Elementalist class is the only true exception to this scenario because they actually have several heals, several incapacitates that aren’t easily countered, and a lot of mobility spells. It’s also ironic that the only truly viable option for elementalists right now is also their melee tree, but in order to actually beat melee in this game they have to use all of their cooldowns and still often need to use their great escapes to reset fights. Often they can’t even finish the fight but instead are forced at a draw (if you look at some of the best Ele d/d videos on the internet you’ll see some of the flashiest fight scenes this game has to offer that last upwards of 10mins. You’ll also notice when watching these same videos that they don’t actually kill anything…)

Look at the Ranger class. While its snares are plentiful, the class’ escapes aren’t. And with the bulk of their snaring options coming from melee range abilities, what good are they once the target you’re trying to kite is already in your face. Their ability to remove conditions are about as limited to that of the warrior, but they don’t have the roots/snare/charge advantage the warrior has because the ranger wants range and not melee. Then on top of this ranged attacks need traits in order to actually pierce targets, and even with the traits they’re horribly bugged and don’t work half the time because of the projectile’s trajectory.

So if you want to complain about something, your target should actually be melee combat and the tools they have to both get in range and keep people in range versus the tools available to ranged classes to keep targets at range.

Oglaf.1074:

There’s actually an intricate aggro system in the game. For example, using melee weapons generate more aggro and a Shield on top of that generates even more. Toughness is also a huge factor; the more you have, the more aggro you generate.

However, the problem is that a lot mobs have their own aggro rules; some go for the squishiest target possible (Riflemen in CM explore, for example).

I’ve heard similar – it seems to be a system that’s complicated enough that folks still haven’t quite figured it out, which tends to lead to people presuming it’s broken in favour of certain things or just randomised to a degree. I haven’t really paid enough attention myself, though it would be nice to know – even vaguely – just what sorts of things can cause additional aggro on a player. Some professions seem to complain that they generate more aggro than they’d expect, when it may well be that they innately activate more of the factors that prioritise them over others.

Again, avoiding aggro when attacking would be another way of ensuring that you stay alive for longer, though have fun explaining that to your group.

Oglaf.1074:

Toxyn.9608:

Oglaf.1074:

Toxyn.9608:

However, in a game where a boss/monster could just as easily chase after a light armor profession instead of a heavy armor professions, does it still apply to PvE?

Actually, Heavy armour classes generate more aggro by default.

Perhaps their threat generation should be increased even further? Like I said above, the odd time I do go pure dps, I am always stealing the boss/monsters’ attention.

I did not know they had higher innate threat generation though. Thanks for your input.

There’s actually an intricate aggro system in the game. For example, using melee weapons generate more aggro and a Shield on top of that generates even more. Toughness is also a huge factor; the more you have, the more aggro you generate.

However, the problem is that a lot mobs have their own aggro rules; some go for the squishiest target possible (Riflemen in CM explore, for example).

I had no idea that the threat system in this game was so deep. Thank you for bringing it to my attention – I’ll have to read up on it now.

This discussion is mainly aimed at the PvE side of things, given the first sentence about threat/aggro. It definitely would not work in PvP.

Well, as I said, a lot of mobs tend to have their own little special aggro system in addition to the general aggro rules. That tends to fudge things up. Anyway, here’s all the aggro factors listed by the Wiki:

Proximity to the mob.
Attacking the mob.
Deals the most damage to the mob.
Using a Shield.
Has high Toughness/Armour

So logically, if you’re a D/D Elementalist being in melee range of a mob you’re most likely going to draw aggro based on proximity and doing a lot of damage.

Toxyn.9608:

As a bonus, this would open up three times the amount of armor skins to mix and match. The “battlemage” appearance would be made possible. Warriors could mix in some medium armor for the nordic look. Thieves could wear light armor robes for the “cloak and dagger” flavor.

Aside from all balancing issues that come with your question in general I would really like to have a possibility to get the look of other armor-classes’ armors.

proxy.7963:

…people presuming it’s broken in favour of certain things or just randomised to a degree.

I’ll be honest – I came into this game hearing about the lack of a proper “trinity”, and thought that meant that threat had some sort of random or static nature depending on the boss/monster. I had no idea a system to manage it actually exists.

Toxyn.9608:

proxy.7963:

…people presuming it’s broken in favour of certain things or just randomised to a degree.

I’ll be honest – I came into this game hearing about the lack of a proper “trinity”, and thought that meant that threat had some sort of random or static nature depending on the boss/monster. I had no idea a system to manage it actually exists.

Except it doesn’t. At least not beyond yelling at someone to stop attacking and backing off. Not that doing so is a perfect fix, and i keep seeing claims that a mob will turn around and attack them the moment they walk into LOS no matter the distance or they having done any attacks at all.

I was playing necro at a DE once, where a champ spawned in a relatively open field. I tried to stay out as far as i could on my range but even so the champ would basically turn away from a group of melees and come stomping across the field to get me.

Yeah there are no taunts or any other form of aggro management. There are just certain things (like equipping a Shield) that you can do in order to try an manipulate the aggro system, but in the end you still have rely on hope that you will hold the aggro.

Atherakhia.4086:

So if you want to complain about something, your target should actually be melee combat and the tools they have to both get in range and keep people in range versus the tools available to ranged classes to keep targets at range.

Indeed. One part i notice is that while the game have all these effects that seems like classic mmorpg CC, they are all so short in effect that the only time they really matter are in SPVP where the fights are usually short and brutal.

But CC in a traditional sense was there to allow a squishy class to take control of a encounter with multiple mobs by putting one or more of them out of the fight for multiple 10s of seconds. This then allowed said class, via different means, to face down a group of mobs similar in size to what a hardier class would just wade into and start pounding on. Brains vs brawn basically.

But the CC in GW2 is not CC in the traditional sense, they are more like fighting game combo breakers. You slam them to break the warriors 100B or elementalists meteor shower, not to put either out of the fight for 10+ seconds.

And yet they can’t be spammed. most of them have cooldowns of 30+ seconds. Meaning you have to have a very good timing or you waste them.

Oglaf:

I just looked over the aggro wiki page, http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Aggro, and I learned quite a bit from it. After considering the information, my answer to my question in the OP must be that armor classes do not need to changed. It seems myself and others that I play with just did not have the information to manage threat properly.

Even something as small as reviving allies creating a very large amount of threat is insanely useful to know.

There should be a section in the Tips menu in-game devoted to this mechanic.

Oglaf.1074:

Yeah there are no taunts or any other form of aggro management. There are just certain things (like equipping a Shield) that you can do in order to try an manipulate the aggro system, but in the end you still have rely on hope that you will hold the aggro.

Yea, i think a big part is the opaqueness of it all. We have this vague list of things that is supposed to affect aggro. But we do not know the initial conditions of various mobs, nor do we know if any of them have special conditions or exactly how much various actions and gear impact the whole thing.

The only real way to get any sanity into this would be if a group of people were willing to face down the same big mob repeatedly using a controlled range of setups of professions and gear to try and establish a baseline. Then approach a different mob with the same exact process and record any differences in behavior.

Oglaf.1074:

So logically, if you’re a D/D Elementalist being in melee range of a mob you’re most likely going to draw aggro based on proximity and doing a lot of damage.

I noticed that it’s either me (D/D ele) or a guardian that usually has the bulk of aggro. I never really thought about it until your post.

Toxyn.9608:

Oglaf:

I just looked over the aggro wiki page, http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Aggro, and I learned quite a bit from it. After considering the information, my answer to my question in the OP must be that armor classes do not need to changed. It seems myself and others that I play with just did not have the information to manage threat properly.

Even something as small as reviving allies creating a very large amount of threat is insanely useful to know.

There should be a section in the Tips menu in-game devoted to this mechanic.

Yeah that would’ve avoided a lot of pain for IRL friend of mine and his Mesmer. He thought he died too easily during dungeons, so he started stacking Toughness.

Guess what that resulted in?

More deaths because of all the aggro!

Oglaf.1074:

It is also the opinion of many players that Thieves and Elementalists are the two most overplayed and overpowered professions in the game. One is Medium armour, the other is Light.
So.
Yeah.

Heard that ANet, nobody mentioned mesmers. So stop nerfing us, thank you.

Oglaf.1074:

Yeah there are no taunts or any other form of aggro management. There are just certain things (like equipping a Shield) that you can do in order to try an manipulate the aggro system, but in the end you still have rely on hope that you will hold the aggro.

That is part of what makes this game actually fun. Got aggro? React to it. Not like in <well known other MMO> where it’s more like got aggro? “Ok, everybody wipe now, next attempt in five mins”.

BaconCatTheGreasy.9542:

Just so you know, the bonus of having better armour is to balance out the fact that both guardians and warriors suck at range.

This made me laugh.

Guardians have more defense for ranged than any other class.

Arguably, warriors have better ranged damage/attacks than…get this…RANGERS.

Oh, and warriors have more/better gap closers than any other class, except thief. dam heartseeker.

Iruwen.3164:

Oglaf.1074:

It is also the opinion of many players that Thieves and Elementalists are the two most overplayed and overpowered professions in the game. One is Medium armour, the other is Light.
So.
Yeah.

Heard that ANet, nobody mentioned mesmers. So stop nerfing us, thank you.

They were considered that way before they got nerfed, so somewhat justified. Also, the community needs time to understand game mechanics, I have a feeling they seemed OP because the community didn’t understand mesmers. The more they start to understand how other classes work, the more the game will be balanced.

digiowl.9620:

The only real way to get any sanity into this would be if a group of people were willing to face down the same big mob repeatedly using a controlled range of setups of professions and gear to try and establish a baseline. Then approach a different mob with the same exact process and record any differences in behavior.

As far as I’m concerned, there’s no real need to figure out every minutiae of the aggro system. The current content does not require that a party take advantage of it in order to succeed, and the feeling that players need to know everything about a system in order to enjoy it just isn’t something I share.

There comes a point where a system can become so complex enough that, to an outsider, it begins to generate apparently random results. The current knowledge of the system has been enough to draw player’s ire, but an advanced level of knowledge about other systems has done the same – ANet really has nothing to gain by explaining it to us, and I doubt we actually need to know. With each character having the ability to be largely self-sufficient while also supporting the group as a whole, the only benefit that I understand to knowing the intricacies of the system is to players who either a) Want to use it to tank more effectively, or b) Want to use it to avoid aggro more effectively. But with the traditional trinity eroded by GW2’s design, there’s less reason to do that – it’s generally more fluid and reactive.

You make a good point, Proxy. However, say someone is looking to lower the amount of threat they get in a dungeon. They have two main options; switch out some dps for Vitality or for Toughness. Luckily, I made the choice of Vitality without knowing this information. If I had chosen Toughness, I would be back at square one and wasted time/resources re-gearing.

At least some information about this system should be made available in-game.

Also, edited title to include Threat, as it seems the discussion is focusing mainly on this.

Ah yes, self-sufficiency. Then why the revive mechanic? Let those that are so fool that they get downed fend for themselves. Never mind that if you actually try to be a good samaritan you end up a aggro magnet.

IMO the game is not fluid and reactive, it is dogpiled chaos. All these interrupts and dodges are fine and dandy when the fight is 1 on 1. But once it becomes group on group, never mind group on boss, it just devolves into a process of hitting hard, hitting fast, rinse and repeat.

The game takes on the appearance of the barbarian hordes rushing the roman formation again and again, never learning, never studying, if they get beaten they just retreat for a bit and rush on again.

Toxyn.9608:

You make a good point, Proxy. However, say someone is looking to lower the amount of threat they get in a dungeon. They have two main options; switch out some dps for Vitality or for Toughness. Luckily, I made the choice of Vitality without knowing this information. If I had chosen Toughness, I would be back at square one and wasted time/resources re-gearing.

Granted that’s a good point, and I find it interesting that one defence stat was apparently chosen over another in order to calculate aggro. I do see your point that for anyone spending time to devote themselves towards a particular role, their actions may unintentionally scupper them. However, I’d still argue that success in the game is less reliant upon preparation as much as it is upon reaction. In many ways, we’re encouraged to be able to respond to events rather than to generate a build that is tailored towards a certain role in the party – in your example above, I’d understand why a player might feel that they’d wasted their time, but a decent player should still be able to react effectively to additional aggro (particularly with the innate defence bonuses they’d earned for themselves). It’s the result of entering the game with the mindset you might apply to another title and going about the same activities rather than adjusting your expectations.

digiowl.9620:

Ah yes, self-sufficiency. Then why the revive mechanic? Let those that are so fool that they get downed fend for themselves. Never mind that if you actually try to be a good samaritan you end up a aggro magnet.

Well, yes. Just because you’re not keen on a mechanic does not make it objectively bad. I don’t honestly understand your criticism here – is it that downed states aren’t as effective as you think they should be, or too much? Is it that you can help people who are downed, or can’t? I can’t quite sense your input through potential sarcasm.

digiowl.9620:

IMO the game is not fluid and reactive, it is dogpiled chaos. All these interrupts and dodges are fine and dandy when the fight is 1 on 1. But once it becomes group on group, never mind group on boss, it just devolves into a process of hitting hard, hitting fast, rinse and repeat.

Attempting to avoid the topic of Fractals, but the Dredge boss is a fairly interesting attempt by ANet to make fights more tooled towards specialised mechanics rather than relying on DPS. You simply cannot succeed in that boss by standing and hitting it until it falls over. Regardless of how successful the results are, I’d appreciate seeing more bosses like this in the future, though perhaps a little more forgiving.

However, in general I don’t agree. You can succeed in many boss fights by relying on DPS, but you don’t have to – and that’s the point. You aren’t being expected to fill any particular role and the game is made to be accessible by all sorts of players with all sorts of build types. And there’s nothing to say that ANet won’t build on this foundation in the future. Saying anything else, even based on evidence thus far, just strikes me as defeatist. And if you choose to limit yourself to a single role, for whatever reason, and find yourself dissatisfied, then change. Experiment. You have the ability to fairly easily and you don’t have to worry too much about tooling yourself to an extreme build to succeed.

In response to the OP, I wouldn’t want armor and health standardized across all classes. But an idea I’ve had for a while was, what if each class had 2 armors to choose from?

Elementalist: light/medium
Necromancer: light/medium
Mesmer: Light/heavy
Thief: Medium/light
Ranger: Medium/light
Engineer: Medium/heavy
Warrior: Heavy/medium
Guardian: Heavy/light

And then the bonus of having the heavier set would be to have more armor (obviously) and the bonus of choosing the lighter set would be something to do with speed, maybe -0.2 recharge time on skills or 10% faster endurance rate or -5% of skill casting speed.
Something like this would add customization, and a choice about whether ypu prefer speed or taking damage.

Would love to mix and match armour across professions. If they brought in a good cosmetic look system (plug for LOTRO ) they could do this without impacting stats. The armour system frankly is the same bone as the trinity system, not really needed but used as the base of almost all mmo’s (think secret world is only one I play that does not use this).

Half Tooth.1867:

And then the bonus of having the heavier set would be to have more armor (obviously) and the bonus of choosing the lighter set would be something to do with speed, maybe -0.2 recharge time on skills or 10% faster endurance rate or -5% of skill casting speed.
Something like this would add customization, and a choice about whether ypu prefer speed or taking damage.

Why should Guardians and Warriors be punished for wearing the armour they are designed for?

Oglaf.1074:

Half Tooth.1867:

And then the bonus of having the heavier set would be to have more armor (obviously) and the bonus of choosing the lighter set would be something to do with speed, maybe -0.2 recharge time on skills or 10% faster endurance rate or -5% of skill casting speed.
Something like this would add customization, and a choice about whether ypu prefer speed or taking damage.

Why should Guardians and Warriors be punished for wearing the armour they are designed for?

Because some people think they can re-create a mmo (: Lots of devs here i see… How is that possible? A Mage wearing light armor. How dare you Anet????

Oglaf.1074:

Half Tooth.1867:

And then the bonus of having the heavier set would be to have more armor (obviously) and the bonus of choosing the lighter set would be something to do with speed, maybe -0.2 recharge time on skills or 10% faster endurance rate or -5% of skill casting speed.
Something like this would add customization, and a choice about whether ypu prefer speed or taking damage.

Why should Guardians and Warriors be punished for wearing the armour they are designed for?

I didn’t mean it as a punishment, it would be a choice for all classes to choose either armor or speed and to have the aesthetics that go with that.

If you’re point is that in my brief outlining of an idea I overlooked that warriors and gaurdians don’t have a buff for continuing to wear heavy armor, my response is that I missed that and as it was an initial idea it can be rethought.
Maybe each class gets a base health and armor tweak so that choosing between armor and speed is a valid choice.
Or maybe each class can choose from all three armor ratings with each armor having a strength and a weakness. Nothing too over the top, light armor promoting movement and speed, whilst being low on defenses, heavy armor promoting damage endurance, but being slightly slow in some way and medium armor promoting a kind of all round middle ground, maybe with a small healing buff and I can’t think of an appropriate weakness.

It was the customization I was focussing on really.

So much double post…..

Not saying I agree with your idea being good, but Warriors/Guardians should get the “light armour bonus” for wearing Heavy armour because they’re conditioned for it.

Not saying I agree with your idea being good, but Warriors/Guardians should get the “light armour bonus” for wearing Heavy armour because they’re conditioned for it.

Not saying I agree with your idea being good, but Warriors/Guardians should get the “light armour bonus” for wearing Heavy armour because they’re conditioned for it.

Well that could work too. Maybe the armor your class is supposed to wear has no buffs or weaknesses but if you choose to wear the other set you get a weakness and buff.
I see what you’re saying, that it would be unfair to give medium and light armor classes a buff to continue wearing the armor they were conditioned to wear and also get a buff for wearing the heavier set.

But say as an ele you really feel you need sme more armor, so you decide to try out medium armor which would give you a toughness increase there would also need to be a penalty for that. If as a warrior you decided to wear medium armor you’d get a speed increase to balance out the toughness decrease. So maybe for the elementalist they get a speed decrease when they put on medium armor, rather than just being buffed.

Not saying I agree with your idea being good, but Warriors/Guardians should get the “light armour bonus” for wearing Heavy armour because they’re conditioned for it.

Toxyn.9608:

What if armor classes were removed and every piece of gear was bumped up to Heavy stats? What if base health pools were equal across all professions, giving each equal base survivability?

A bad idea in my opinion. You talk of an “equal base survivability” without considering the skills and traits available to each different class and how these better define a character’s ability to survive.

For example, I have two characters, (a Warrior and a Thief,) both full exotic lvl80’s, both spec’d for maximum damage and both with about 500 hours play-time each. When a fight turns bad and I’m about to die imminently, I always feel far, far more confident of surviving when I’m playing the Thief simply because the Warrior’s escape and evade options are miserable by comparison. In short, I die more as a Warrior. A strange outcome when you consider that my Thief has 11,000 health, (less than half that of my Warrior,) and with a vastly reduced level of toughness.

The thought of my, (or anyone else’s) Thief getting heavy armor, 20,000+ health and a dramatic increase in toughness would destroy the whole class system in this game. Goodness knows what any other classes would become through such a radical change!

I do agree with allowing other, out-of-class armors to be transmuted and worn – I’d personally like my Warrior to be more deft looking, but that would require her being allowed to wear some light/medium armors.

Warrior with light armor, funny guys.

Well, typically warriors would never wear armor that wasn’t heavy and that fully covered their body. But lots of people across a lot of games (I am thinking particularly of the the elder scrolls and all the mods) want to be able to have the effects of heavy armor whilst looking like they’re wearing light armor and showing off lots of skin. That bothers me considerably more than a warrior simply wearing light armor.

One thing that is annoying about the aggro system as an engineer: I have quite a bit of toughness so I don’t die as easily. However, when I’m in a group with 2 warriors and 2 guardians and the mobs chase me around instead of at least some of them attacking the heavy armor users (I guess all of them full berserker’s), then something is really fudged up in the aggro calculations.

Love the ascalon fractal. Warrior pulls, I wait 3 secs and shoot one mob with my rifle, all the warrior/fighter mobs charge me…