For all those OMG TREADMILL Types
1 2
I believe they will add something more than ascended but will it be any time soon? Hell no. I think people want that instant reward for their work, I understand that these new weapons take awhile to get because some of the materials are only rewarded in certain parts of the game that are timed and plus the inflation. You don’t need to have it right now, take 2 steps back, pat yourself on the back for playing this long and getting what you got and enjoy the rest of the ride.
Sunset
50/50 GWAMM x3
I quit how I want
50/50 GWAMM x3
I quit how I want
They have to resort to cheap ploys like loot and progression to keep players engaged.
Except that these are all anyone seems to be asking for…
They’re simply giving their audience what they want, although perhaps not in the ways they prefer it.
What audience. If you mean east market youre on to something.
No, I wasn’t referring to that market….although that point is likely true too. However, I was referring to the numerous threads on here crying for it. Threads about longevity, threads about ‘gear grind or everyone leaves,’ threads about how they need to look at the loot tables again because some people aren’t ‘getting enough’ loot (and now we have threads whining we get too much), crying for loot overhauls because they want more guaranteed rares and exotics, about not having super lucrative farming. They’re all there….go back a dozen or so pages in the forum. Anet is simply listening to the people shrieking the loudest….
You’re missing the point entirely. If the devs make the game about loot, as they most assuredly have, then of course people will cry about imbalances and not getting enough of it. ANet could have focused on simply making the game fun to play with creative content and updated environments, but apparently they couldn’t think of anything clever so they took the easy way out and put in place grinds that they specifically promised they would never do. They had the chance to freeze gear and instead introduce new maps, new forms of play (instanced WvW??), new classes, new anything … for god’s sake just pretend they were merging with other games … but they didn’t and they obviously don’t plan to.
Lanfear is correct. Those aspects of the game you discussed are a direct result of player feedback. At launch, there was a lot of fun stuff to do. Loot, on the other hand, was terrible. Since, Anet has revised DE’s, put in new DE’s, added JP’s, and some other things, but there have been few comments about that. Posts about wanting more fun stuff to do were few and far between.
Instead, once players had their exotic gear (via dungeon set or w/ever) they only wanted to farm (presumably to pursue the legendary status symbol or some other rare look). ANet nerfed farm spot after farm spot, ostensibly because those places could be bot farmed. Players complained… and complained… and complained. You couldn’t go a day on the forums without a “Can’t gain gold” thread being active. So, ANet gave them what they wanted, in ways that are not as accessible to bots.
Now, we have the opposite faction coming out of the woodwork, saying, “We want the game to be about fun!” Where the heck were you last October, when the gear or bust movement swayed the direction of the game?
I was playing the game, enjoying it, and actually believed that ANet would follow through on their promise to hold the line against grinding. ANet COULD have lived up to their word … they just didn’t. For kitten’s sake, there are tons of other things players have requested on these forums that ANet has successfully and totally ignored. Why not that one?
D/D Thief who prefers mobility to stealth … so yeah, I die a lot
Stormbluff Isle [AoD]
Stormbluff Isle [AoD]
They have to resort to cheap ploys like loot and progression to keep players engaged.
Except that these are all anyone seems to be asking for…
They’re simply giving their audience what they want, although perhaps not in the ways they prefer it.
What audience. If you mean east market youre on to something.
No, I wasn’t referring to that market….although that point is likely true too. However, I was referring to the numerous threads on here crying for it. Threads about longevity, threads about ‘gear grind or everyone leaves,’ threads about how they need to look at the loot tables again because some people aren’t ‘getting enough’ loot (and now we have threads whining we get too much), crying for loot overhauls because they want more guaranteed rares and exotics, about not having super lucrative farming. They’re all there….go back a dozen or so pages in the forum. Anet is simply listening to the people shrieking the loudest….
You’re missing the point entirely. If the devs make the game about loot, as they most assuredly have, then of course people will cry about imbalances and not getting enough of it. ANet could have focused on simply making the game fun to play with creative content and updated environments, but apparently they couldn’t think of anything clever so they took the easy way out and put in place grinds that they specifically promised they would never do. They had the chance to freeze gear and instead introduce new maps, new forms of play (instanced WvW??), new classes, new anything … for god’s sake just pretend they were merging with other games … but they didn’t and they obviously don’t plan to.
Lanfear is correct. Those aspects of the game you discussed are a direct result of player feedback. At launch, there was a lot of fun stuff to do. Loot, on the other hand, was terrible. Since, Anet has revised DE’s, put in new DE’s, added JP’s, and some other things, but there have been few comments about that. Posts about wanting more fun stuff to do were few and far between.
Instead, once players had their exotic gear (via dungeon set or w/ever) they only wanted to farm (presumably to pursue the legendary status symbol or some other rare look). ANet nerfed farm spot after farm spot, ostensibly because those places could be bot farmed. Players complained… and complained… and complained. You couldn’t go a day on the forums without a “Can’t gain gold” thread being active. So, ANet gave them what they wanted, in ways that are not as accessible to bots.
Now, we have the opposite faction coming out of the woodwork, saying, “We want the game to be about fun!” Where the heck were you last October, when the gear or bust movement swayed the direction of the game?
I was playing the game, enjoying it, and actually believed that ANet would follow through on their promise to hold the line against grinding. ANet COULD have lived up to their word … they just didn’t. For kitten’s sake, there are tons of other things players have requested on these forums that ANet has successfully and totally ignored. Why not that one?
I still enjoy the game, but it’s the original game, mostly. The newer stuff — with the exception of the one achievement in Sanctum, the one where you had to get to 40 whatevers using the wind/air/sun skills, the one that I had to think to achieve — has been lackluster once I got over the OOO Shiny syndrome.
I’ve leveled 8 characters to 80 (the latest made it to 80 tonight). I still wish leveling was slower. The regular content is still enjoyable, and can be challenging in spots. Dungeons can be challenging as long as you don’t follow the meta. Pity ANet seems intent on not providing more of that.
You’re right — ANet could have continued down that road, and hasn’t. Now, everything is zerg this and farm that. They listened to whatever % of the playerbase wants that — probably because they believe that is the road to profit. I’m certain that it’s easier to program invasions that are just mobs who appear and do nothing, than it is to do more complex things, even pathing. And if loot pinatas who stand there and spam skills and are spammed at in return are what the clientele wants… well, what would you do? Spend less money and please more customers or spend more money and please less customers?
Would you mind transcribing the exact quote: question and answer? Can’t watch the video ATM.
Basically he says ascended is the last tier of gear your gonna see, not counting legendary’s.
Basically he is saying NOTHING like that.
Basically he is pretty much not saying anything about it. “i hope there no new tier” rofl
Oh and look, one more of these misleading threads.
This ^^^
Ascended or not Ascended, jump on tread mill train all you like when you are done, what then, you still have the same content to do, Ascended just makes it even more unbalanced and trivial…
They have to resort to cheap ploys like loot and progression to keep players engaged.
Except that these are all anyone seems to be asking for…
They’re simply giving their audience what they want, although perhaps not in the ways they prefer it.
What audience. If you mean east market youre on to something.
No, I wasn’t referring to that market….although that point is likely true too. However, I was referring to the numerous threads on here crying for it. Threads about longevity, threads about ‘gear grind or everyone leaves,’ threads about how they need to look at the loot tables again because some people aren’t ‘getting enough’ loot (and now we have threads whining we get too much), crying for loot overhauls because they want more guaranteed rares and exotics, about not having super lucrative farming. They’re all there….go back a dozen or so pages in the forum. Anet is simply listening to the people shrieking the loudest….
You’re missing the point entirely. If the devs make the game about loot, as they most assuredly have, then of course people will cry about imbalances and not getting enough of it. ANet could have focused on simply making the game fun to play with creative content and updated environments, but apparently they couldn’t think of anything clever so they took the easy way out and put in place grinds that they specifically promised they would never do. They had the chance to freeze gear and instead introduce new maps, new forms of play (instanced WvW??), new classes, new anything … for god’s sake just pretend they were merging with other games … but they didn’t and they obviously don’t plan to.
Lanfear is correct. Those aspects of the game you discussed are a direct result of player feedback. At launch, there was a lot of fun stuff to do. Loot, on the other hand, was terrible. Since, Anet has revised DE’s, put in new DE’s, added JP’s, and some other things, but there have been few comments about that. Posts about wanting more fun stuff to do were few and far between.
Instead, once players had their exotic gear (via dungeon set or w/ever) they only wanted to farm (presumably to pursue the legendary status symbol or some other rare look). ANet nerfed farm spot after farm spot, ostensibly because those places could be bot farmed. Players complained… and complained… and complained. You couldn’t go a day on the forums without a “Can’t gain gold” thread being active. So, ANet gave them what they wanted, in ways that are not as accessible to bots.
Now, we have the opposite faction coming out of the woodwork, saying, “We want the game to be about fun!” Where the heck were you last October, when the gear or bust movement swayed the direction of the game?
I would very much like to see where those hordes are, because or REALLY (and i mean really really) varied people that play/played never ever was feedback that they want gear treadmill/moar loot. I could tell you that crapload of people quit because theres no “classic gameplay” with tab-combat and trinity. So what, do we expect classic tab combat and trinity now?
NO, they did it on their own accord. They sat one day and decided to go 180 and induced gear treadmill. Wrong answer to the wrong problem. Continuing with ascended weapons only confirms that as, they AGAIN had the chance to stop it.
I wish they had the approach like EvE (and they did) but suddenly, 2 months after launch, approach changed to be like any other failed WoW clone out there (with a nice dose of Korean grinder to make it worse)
Colin Johanson: “Everyone, including casual gamers, by level 80 should have the
best statistical loot in the game. We want everyone on an equal power base.”
best statistical loot in the game. We want everyone on an equal power base.”
(edited by MikaHR.1978)
-snip-
Dungeons can be challenging as long as you don’t follow the meta. Pity ANet seems intent on not providing more of that.
-snip-
?
Have you heard about Tequatl Rising? Colin also implied that it would be the first of many world boss revamps.
We all do as we must to make our way in this world and unfortunately,
we have to do things others may qualify as “evil”.
~Krunch Bloodrage, Looking For Group
we have to do things others may qualify as “evil”.
~Krunch Bloodrage, Looking For Group
They have to resort to cheap ploys like loot and progression to keep players engaged.
Except that these are all anyone seems to be asking for…
They’re simply giving their audience what they want, although perhaps not in the ways they prefer it.
What audience. If you mean east market youre on to something.
No, I wasn’t referring to that market….although that point is likely true too. However, I was referring to the numerous threads on here crying for it. Threads about longevity, threads about ‘gear grind or everyone leaves,’ threads about how they need to look at the loot tables again because some people aren’t ‘getting enough’ loot (and now we have threads whining we get too much), crying for loot overhauls because they want more guaranteed rares and exotics, about not having super lucrative farming. They’re all there….go back a dozen or so pages in the forum. Anet is simply listening to the people shrieking the loudest….
You’re missing the point entirely. If the devs make the game about loot, as they most assuredly have, then of course people will cry about imbalances and not getting enough of it. ANet could have focused on simply making the game fun to play with creative content and updated environments, but apparently they couldn’t think of anything clever so they took the easy way out and put in place grinds that they specifically promised they would never do. They had the chance to freeze gear and instead introduce new maps, new forms of play (instanced WvW??), new classes, new anything … for god’s sake just pretend they were merging with other games … but they didn’t and they obviously don’t plan to.
Lanfear is correct. Those aspects of the game you discussed are a direct result of player feedback. At launch, there was a lot of fun stuff to do. Loot, on the other hand, was terrible. Since, Anet has revised DE’s, put in new DE’s, added JP’s, and some other things, but there have been few comments about that. Posts about wanting more fun stuff to do were few and far between.
Instead, once players had their exotic gear (via dungeon set or w/ever) they only wanted to farm (presumably to pursue the legendary status symbol or some other rare look). ANet nerfed farm spot after farm spot, ostensibly because those places could be bot farmed. Players complained… and complained… and complained. You couldn’t go a day on the forums without a “Can’t gain gold” thread being active. So, ANet gave them what they wanted, in ways that are not as accessible to bots.
Now, we have the opposite faction coming out of the woodwork, saying, “We want the game to be about fun!” Where the heck were you last October, when the gear or bust movement swayed the direction of the game?
I would very much like to see where those hordes are, because or REALLY (and i mean really really) varied people that play/played never ever was feedback that they want gear treadmill/moar loot. I could tell you that crapload of people quit because theres no “classic gameplay” with tab-combat and trinity. So what, do we expect classic tab combat and trinity now?
NO, they did it on their own accord. They sat one day and decided to go 180 and induced gear treadmill. Wrong answer to the wrong problem. Continuing with ascended weapons only confirms that as, they AGAIN had the chance to stop it.
I wish they had the approach like EvE (and they did) but suddenly, 2 months after launch, approach changed to be like any other failed WoW clone out there (with a nice dose of Korean grinder to make it worse)
So what do you think they based their decisions on. You make it sound so glib. They just decided…based on nothing.
My guess is they have metrics you have no access to. Of course, that doesn’t mean they interpreted the metrics correctly but given that they have those metrics and you do not, I’m guessing Anet had better information than you do.
Some people are complaining about the grind and some people are complaining about the time gating, and can live with the grind. It’s not all one party. You’re not all saying the same thing.
Except both the timegating and the grind are tied to VP. Again, neither would be the problem if not for the VP. VP would not be the problem if not for timegating and grind. All these three things are interconnected.
Also, i have noticed that while he was talking about tiers, he said absolutely nothing about raising level cap. And i still remember Anet’s statement that they’ll “definitely” do that.
My guess is they have metrics you have no access to. Of course, that doesn’t mean they interpreted the metrics correctly but given that they have those metrics and you do not, I’m guessing Anet had better information than you do.
Considering that the locust leaving was something that could have been predicted beforehand, and yet they still did panic, i have a reason to question their ability to interpret those metrics.
Actions, not words.
Remember, remember, 15th of November
Remember, remember, 15th of November
(edited by Astralporing.1957)
So what do you think they based their decisions on. You make it sound so glib. They just decided…based on nothing.
My guess is they have metrics you have no access to. Of course, that doesn’t mean they interpreted the metrics correctly but given that they have those metrics and you do not, I’m guessing Anet had better information than you do.
Metrics can be a good thing, they can also be a very bad thing. For me, ANet is following their metrics, and doing the bad decisions out of it.
I suggest once again an Extra Credits episode http://www.penny-arcade.com/patv/episode/metrics
They have to resort to cheap ploys like loot and progression to keep players engaged.
Except that these are all anyone seems to be asking for…
They’re simply giving their audience what they want, although perhaps not in the ways they prefer it.
What audience. If you mean east market youre on to something.
No, I wasn’t referring to that market….although that point is likely true too. However, I was referring to the numerous threads on here crying for it. Threads about longevity, threads about ‘gear grind or everyone leaves,’ threads about how they need to look at the loot tables again because some people aren’t ‘getting enough’ loot (and now we have threads whining we get too much), crying for loot overhauls because they want more guaranteed rares and exotics, about not having super lucrative farming. They’re all there….go back a dozen or so pages in the forum. Anet is simply listening to the people shrieking the loudest….
You’re missing the point entirely. If the devs make the game about loot, as they most assuredly have, then of course people will cry about imbalances and not getting enough of it. ANet could have focused on simply making the game fun to play with creative content and updated environments, but apparently they couldn’t think of anything clever so they took the easy way out and put in place grinds that they specifically promised they would never do. They had the chance to freeze gear and instead introduce new maps, new forms of play (instanced WvW??), new classes, new anything … for god’s sake just pretend they were merging with other games … but they didn’t and they obviously don’t plan to.
Lanfear is correct. Those aspects of the game you discussed are a direct result of player feedback. At launch, there was a lot of fun stuff to do. Loot, on the other hand, was terrible. Since, Anet has revised DE’s, put in new DE’s, added JP’s, and some other things, but there have been few comments about that. Posts about wanting more fun stuff to do were few and far between.
Instead, once players had their exotic gear (via dungeon set or w/ever) they only wanted to farm (presumably to pursue the legendary status symbol or some other rare look). ANet nerfed farm spot after farm spot, ostensibly because those places could be bot farmed. Players complained… and complained… and complained. You couldn’t go a day on the forums without a “Can’t gain gold” thread being active. So, ANet gave them what they wanted, in ways that are not as accessible to bots.
Now, we have the opposite faction coming out of the woodwork, saying, “We want the game to be about fun!” Where the heck were you last October, when the gear or bust movement swayed the direction of the game?
I would very much like to see where those hordes are, because or REALLY (and i mean really really) varied people that play/played never ever was feedback that they want gear treadmill/moar loot. I could tell you that crapload of people quit because theres no “classic gameplay” with tab-combat and trinity. So what, do we expect classic tab combat and trinity now?
NO, they did it on their own accord. They sat one day and decided to go 180 and induced gear treadmill. Wrong answer to the wrong problem. Continuing with ascended weapons only confirms that as, they AGAIN had the chance to stop it.
I wish they had the approach like EvE (and they did) but suddenly, 2 months after launch, approach changed to be like any other failed WoW clone out there (with a nice dose of Korean grinder to make it worse)
So what do you think they based their decisions on. You make it sound so glib. They just decided…based on nothing.
My guess is they have metrics you have no access to. Of course, that doesn’t mean they interpreted the metrics correctly but given that they have those metrics and you do not, I’m guessing Anet had better information than you do.
Ahhh, the mighty metric
looks at trail of failed WoW clones im sure they all used the mighty metric.
Colin Johanson: “Everyone, including casual gamers, by level 80 should have the
best statistical loot in the game. We want everyone on an equal power base.”
best statistical loot in the game. We want everyone on an equal power base.”
Some people are complaining about the grind and some people are complaining about the time gating, and can live with the grind. It’s not all one party. You’re not all saying the same thing.
Except both the timegating and the grind are tied to VP. Again, neither would be the problem if not for the VP. VP would not be the problem if not for timegating and grind. All these three things are interconnected.
Also, i have noticed that while he was talking about tiers, he said absolutely nothing about raising level cap. And i still remember Anet’s statement that they’ll “definitely” do that.
My guess is they have metrics you have no access to. Of course, that doesn’t mean they interpreted the metrics correctly but given that they have those metrics and you do not, I’m guessing Anet had better information than you do.
Considering that the locust leaving was something that could have been predicted beforehand, and yet they still did panic, i have a reason to question their ability to interpret those metrics.
Anet ran Guild Wars 1. There’s no reason for them to think that they couldn’t get and keep enough people. Their thought process, which I shared before it happened, was that people would go for the cosmetic only upgrades if the game was fun enough…except that some people care about efficiency over fun. Anet wasn’t prepared for that. Saying they should have been is your opinion. I don’t think it’s so easy to know what will happen when you try something for the second time that worked the first time on a smaller scale.
They have to resort to cheap ploys like loot and progression to keep players engaged.
Except that these are all anyone seems to be asking for…
They’re simply giving their audience what they want, although perhaps not in the ways they prefer it.
What audience. If you mean east market youre on to something.
No, I wasn’t referring to that market….although that point is likely true too. However, I was referring to the numerous threads on here crying for it. Threads about longevity, threads about ‘gear grind or everyone leaves,’ threads about how they need to look at the loot tables again because some people aren’t ‘getting enough’ loot (and now we have threads whining we get too much), crying for loot overhauls because they want more guaranteed rares and exotics, about not having super lucrative farming. They’re all there….go back a dozen or so pages in the forum. Anet is simply listening to the people shrieking the loudest….
You’re missing the point entirely. If the devs make the game about loot, as they most assuredly have, then of course people will cry about imbalances and not getting enough of it. ANet could have focused on simply making the game fun to play with creative content and updated environments, but apparently they couldn’t think of anything clever so they took the easy way out and put in place grinds that they specifically promised they would never do. They had the chance to freeze gear and instead introduce new maps, new forms of play (instanced WvW??), new classes, new anything … for god’s sake just pretend they were merging with other games … but they didn’t and they obviously don’t plan to.
Lanfear is correct. Those aspects of the game you discussed are a direct result of player feedback. At launch, there was a lot of fun stuff to do. Loot, on the other hand, was terrible. Since, Anet has revised DE’s, put in new DE’s, added JP’s, and some other things, but there have been few comments about that. Posts about wanting more fun stuff to do were few and far between.
Instead, once players had their exotic gear (via dungeon set or w/ever) they only wanted to farm (presumably to pursue the legendary status symbol or some other rare look). ANet nerfed farm spot after farm spot, ostensibly because those places could be bot farmed. Players complained… and complained… and complained. You couldn’t go a day on the forums without a “Can’t gain gold” thread being active. So, ANet gave them what they wanted, in ways that are not as accessible to bots.
Now, we have the opposite faction coming out of the woodwork, saying, “We want the game to be about fun!” Where the heck were you last October, when the gear or bust movement swayed the direction of the game?
I would very much like to see where those hordes are, because or REALLY (and i mean really really) varied people that play/played never ever was feedback that they want gear treadmill/moar loot. I could tell you that crapload of people quit because theres no “classic gameplay” with tab-combat and trinity. So what, do we expect classic tab combat and trinity now?
NO, they did it on their own accord. They sat one day and decided to go 180 and induced gear treadmill. Wrong answer to the wrong problem. Continuing with ascended weapons only confirms that as, they AGAIN had the chance to stop it.
I wish they had the approach like EvE (and they did) but suddenly, 2 months after launch, approach changed to be like any other failed WoW clone out there (with a nice dose of Korean grinder to make it worse)
So what do you think they based their decisions on. You make it sound so glib. They just decided…based on nothing.
My guess is they have metrics you have no access to. Of course, that doesn’t mean they interpreted the metrics correctly but given that they have those metrics and you do not, I’m guessing Anet had better information than you do.
Ahhh, the mighty metric
looks at trail of failed WoW clones im sure they all used the mighty metric.
That you see this game as a WoW clone shows that you don’t get the game at all. Since most people I talk to don’t see it as a WoW clone, you’ve just shown to me that you’re not in touch with the playerbase of this game.
They have to resort to cheap ploys like loot and progression to keep players engaged.
Except that these are all anyone seems to be asking for…
They’re simply giving their audience what they want, although perhaps not in the ways they prefer it.
What audience. If you mean east market youre on to something.
No, I wasn’t referring to that market….although that point is likely true too. However, I was referring to the numerous threads on here crying for it. Threads about longevity, threads about ‘gear grind or everyone leaves,’ threads about how they need to look at the loot tables again because some people aren’t ‘getting enough’ loot (and now we have threads whining we get too much), crying for loot overhauls because they want more guaranteed rares and exotics, about not having super lucrative farming. They’re all there….go back a dozen or so pages in the forum. Anet is simply listening to the people shrieking the loudest….
You’re missing the point entirely. If the devs make the game about loot, as they most assuredly have, then of course people will cry about imbalances and not getting enough of it. ANet could have focused on simply making the game fun to play with creative content and updated environments, but apparently they couldn’t think of anything clever so they took the easy way out and put in place grinds that they specifically promised they would never do. They had the chance to freeze gear and instead introduce new maps, new forms of play (instanced WvW??), new classes, new anything … for god’s sake just pretend they were merging with other games … but they didn’t and they obviously don’t plan to.
Lanfear is correct. Those aspects of the game you discussed are a direct result of player feedback. At launch, there was a lot of fun stuff to do. Loot, on the other hand, was terrible. Since, Anet has revised DE’s, put in new DE’s, added JP’s, and some other things, but there have been few comments about that. Posts about wanting more fun stuff to do were few and far between.
Instead, once players had their exotic gear (via dungeon set or w/ever) they only wanted to farm (presumably to pursue the legendary status symbol or some other rare look). ANet nerfed farm spot after farm spot, ostensibly because those places could be bot farmed. Players complained… and complained… and complained. You couldn’t go a day on the forums without a “Can’t gain gold” thread being active. So, ANet gave them what they wanted, in ways that are not as accessible to bots.
Now, we have the opposite faction coming out of the woodwork, saying, “We want the game to be about fun!” Where the heck were you last October, when the gear or bust movement swayed the direction of the game?
I would very much like to see where those hordes are, because or REALLY (and i mean really really) varied people that play/played never ever was feedback that they want gear treadmill/moar loot. I could tell you that crapload of people quit because theres no “classic gameplay” with tab-combat and trinity. So what, do we expect classic tab combat and trinity now?
NO, they did it on their own accord. They sat one day and decided to go 180 and induced gear treadmill. Wrong answer to the wrong problem. Continuing with ascended weapons only confirms that as, they AGAIN had the chance to stop it.
I wish they had the approach like EvE (and they did) but suddenly, 2 months after launch, approach changed to be like any other failed WoW clone out there (with a nice dose of Korean grinder to make it worse)
So what do you think they based their decisions on. You make it sound so glib. They just decided…based on nothing.
My guess is they have metrics you have no access to. Of course, that doesn’t mean they interpreted the metrics correctly but given that they have those metrics and you do not, I’m guessing Anet had better information than you do.
Ahhh, the mighty metric
looks at trail of failed WoW clones im sure they all used the mighty metric.
That you see this game as a WoW clone shows that you don’t get the game at all. Since most people I talk to don’t see it as a WoW clone, you’ve just shown to me that you’re not in touch with the playerbase of this game.
Uh-huh
Colin Johanson: “Everyone, including casual gamers, by level 80 should have the
best statistical loot in the game. We want everyone on an equal power base.”
best statistical loot in the game. We want everyone on an equal power base.”
Good news then. No one is making you eat peas, nor are they making you grind ascended gear.
Yeah, they kinda are.
Let’s say there was an amulet you could get in game that gave you a special buff that caused all your attacks to automatically kill whatever they hit, made them able to hit through dodges and blocks/invulnerability effects, and granted you immunity to all damage and control effects. The only counter to someone with this amulet was having one of these amulets of your own, in which case you treat each other normally. The amulet also takes 100 hours of grinding to get.
That’s an extreme, of course, but the principle is the same. People willing to sit there and grind will have an advantage over players who spent that same amount of time actually playing the game. In certain cases (glass Thieves come to mind), it may even be an overwhelming advantage.
Not really… Can stop a thief in his tracks. Again this is where skill > gear any day of the week.
I think you’re underestimating the importance of stat multiplicity.
Let’s say you boost an Elementalist’s stats by 10%. This Elementalist uses PVT gear and runs 0/10/0/30/30, an older build to be sure but he likes it. That Ele is now going to be dealing a little more damage (less than 10% though since most of his damage is from base numbers), but is going to gain a bit more durability than that because Toughness and Vitality work off each other.
Now, let’s say you have a Thief and you boost his stats by 10%. He has three stats that feed into each other for damage: Power, Precision, and Crit Damage. There’s a good chance his previous build already had really high Precision, though, so increasing it baseline like this allows him to redirect his other decisions to more power (maybe he eats Power + Crit damage food instead of Power + Precision, uses a Sigil of Bloodlust instead of Perception, swaps out his Sigil of Accuracty for a Sigil of Force or Air, etc etc).
Because he has three stats that feed off each other instead of the two for durability and because boosting Precision allows him to boost the other two stats even higher, you can potentially see a very high spike in damage from just this little change, a far bigger spike than the raw numbers would imply.
Ok, now you’re right that as the game stands right now, playing well in WvW is more important than numbers, but this can’t always be the case regardless of how big those numbers are. Let’s say that the gear treadmill continues to the point where Thieves can one-shot anyone with a Backstab (this also won’t take as long as you think thanks to stat multiplicity). A Thief could, in theory, see a foe approaching from 4,100 units away, use Basilisk Venom, drop a Shadow Refuge behind a hill, then use Infiltrator’s Arrow (900 units), Infiltrator’s Arrow (900 units), Shadowstep (1200 units), Steal (1200 units if traited), then hit you with a Backstab that instantly killed you and also paralyzed just for sheer overkill.
There’s no counterplay to that except to never leave your spawn point. I don’t care how good you are, that Thief is going to kill you and there’s nothing you can do about it because there’s no way you could’ve known it was coming.
I don’t mean to be picking on thieves here; I play a Thief and love her to bits. But when you have a profession in a game whose purpose is to burst single targets down very quickly, it is crucially important that you tune their damage so that they can’t burst so quickly that gameplay is negated.
Consequently, the Thief is going to have to be nerfed so they can’t put on a full Ascended set and completely destroy everyone. This means any Thief without Ascended gear is going to be underpowered, which means Thieves are going to have to buy Ascended gear just to keep up. And ultimately, this is going to happen to every profession to a greater or lesser extent. If Anet is balancing around WvW at all (and they explicitly are), then you’re going to have to balance around the extreme situations, around what might happen if a player puts in the time to become better than everyone else from a gear perspective. Because that isn’t some weird, niche situation. As time goes on, it’s going to become more and more normal, except obviously when people are playing on their alts (which is a whole other problem with this that’s been discussed ad nauseum).
I main Ele and Necro, though I have an alt of each profession at level 80.
How to Condi Reaper on a budget
Everything I say is only in reference to PvE and WvW.
How to Condi Reaper on a budget
Everything I say is only in reference to PvE and WvW.
(edited by Blaine Tog.8304)
-snip-
Dungeons can be challenging as long as you don’t follow the meta. Pity ANet seems intent on not providing more of that.
-snip-
?Have you heard about Tequatl Rising? Colin also implied that it would be the first of many world boss revamps.
I have. The new Teq is neither a dungeon, a regular DE, nor a temple event back in the day when they were fun. It’s essentially an open world raid where anyone can try to participate. It’s going to be a clusterskritt at first.
This initiative will perhaps be good for some players, maybe a large percentage of them However, to me, it’s going to be another massive mess of spell effects obscuring the screen. This will continue if the rewards prompt ongoing efforts to complete it over the long haul. If the rewards do not promote regular attendance, it will become yet another empty wasteland.
I’m in wait and see more before I decide whether it will be fun.
-snip-
Dungeons can be challenging as long as you don’t follow the meta. Pity ANet seems intent on not providing more of that.
-snip-
?Have you heard about Tequatl Rising? Colin also implied that it would be the first of many world boss revamps.
I have. The new Teq is neither a dungeon, a regular DE, nor a temple event back in the day when they were fun. It’s essentially an open world raid where anyone can try to participate. It’s going to be a clusterskritt at first.
This initiative will perhaps be good for some players, maybe a large percentage of them However, to me, it’s going to be another massive mess of spell effects obscuring the screen. This will continue if the rewards prompt ongoing efforts to complete it over the long haul. If the rewards do not promote regular attendance, it will become yet another empty wasteland.
I’m in wait and see more before I decide whether it will be fun.
Why would anyone think Teq will be anything other than what Grenth or the Karka Queen have become. They were made more ‘interesting’ explicitly for the same mythical ‘hardcore’ player, the player that exists on the forums and is just ‘gone’ like everyone else in-game. Teq will undoubtedly see some large guild attention if the reward is high enough. It will also undoubtedly be a failure fest on the same order as previous attempts and will only serve to empty that part of the open world.
The answer is to create instances of tiered difficulty for those wishing more challenge. The open world should be designed for the player you find there, i.e., a wide diversity of players, largely without voice chat, who are not playing from an interrupt list. It’s actually fairly straightforward from a design perspective; I don’t understand why Anet struggles with this.
-snip-
Dungeons can be challenging as long as you don’t follow the meta. Pity ANet seems intent on not providing more of that.
-snip-
?Have you heard about Tequatl Rising? Colin also implied that it would be the first of many world boss revamps.
I have. The new Teq is neither a dungeon, a regular DE, nor a temple event back in the day when they were fun. It’s essentially an open world raid where anyone can try to participate. It’s going to be a clusterskritt at first.
This initiative will perhaps be good for some players, maybe a large percentage of them However, to me, it’s going to be another massive mess of spell effects obscuring the screen. This will continue if the rewards prompt ongoing efforts to complete it over the long haul. If the rewards do not promote regular attendance, it will become yet another empty wasteland.
I’m in wait and see more before I decide whether it will be fun.
Why would anyone think Teq will be anything other than what Grenth or the Karka Queen have become. They were made more ‘interesting’ explicitly for the same mythical ‘hardcore’ player, the player that exists on the forums and is just ‘gone’ like everyone else in-game. Teq will undoubtedly see some large guild attention if the reward is high enough. It will also undoubtedly be a failure fest on the same order as previous attempts and will only serve to empty that part of the open world.
The answer is to create instances of tiered difficulty for those wishing more challenge. The open world should be designed for the player you find there, i.e., a wide diversity of players, largely without voice chat, who are not playing from an interrupt list. It’s actually fairly straightforward from a design perspective; I don’t understand why Anet struggles with this.
If at first you don’t succeed, try try again.
The karka queen was poorly conceived, because it required too much coordination for anyone but guilds. This event seems to be different. More like games with the trinity where everyone learns their role. The guys on the guns are probably the ones who need to be sharpest, because they can disperse the poison and buff people. But there’ll be plenty of people who there there, who just need to DPS, just like most raids.
Saying it didn’t work here so it won’t work anywhere is only true if the situation is the same across the board.
But because you have to hold four different towns, for a chance for the karka queen to spawn (as opposed to T’quatl who is there already), it’s a completely different situation.
Also, on my server at least, temple events are done fairly regularly.
There you have it.
Now stop coming here and complaining non-stop.
Ascended is basically it gear wise.
:http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=Jy7CcwnfUdU#t=104
He said he hoped not. Quit spreading misinformation and deal with our very valid concerns.
Now granted before he himself said exotic would be max, but this leaves it wide open to do it again in the future.
Balance Team: Please Fix Mine Toolbelt Positioning!
There you have it.
Now stop coming here and complaining non-stop.
Ascended is basically it gear wise.
:http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=Jy7CcwnfUdU#t=104
He said he hoped not. Quit spreading misinformation and deal with our very valid concerns.
Now granted before he himself said exotic would be max, but this leaves it wide open to do it again in the future.
As someone else has already pointed out, he further stated that with the addition of ascended they don’t see the need for anymore tiers anytime soon. And further, he wasn’t going to say that there would never be more tiers because in 7 years that could change for a variety of reasons.
I consider this a valid response. Honestly, yes I’m sad they leave the door open for further tiers; however its a sound business decision. They leave it open, they promise nothing. Allows for flexibility in design later on. I don’t like it, but I don’t really have to as I’m not the one in charge.
Don’t look at me like that. Whatever you’ve heard, it’s probably not true.
-snip-
Dungeons can be challenging as long as you don’t follow the meta. Pity ANet seems intent on not providing more of that.
-snip-
?Have you heard about Tequatl Rising? Colin also implied that it would be the first of many world boss revamps.
I have. The new Teq is neither a dungeon, a regular DE, nor a temple event back in the day when they were fun. It’s essentially an open world raid where anyone can try to participate. It’s going to be a clusterskritt at first.
This initiative will perhaps be good for some players, maybe a large percentage of them However, to me, it’s going to be another massive mess of spell effects obscuring the screen. This will continue if the rewards prompt ongoing efforts to complete it over the long haul. If the rewards do not promote regular attendance, it will become yet another empty wasteland.
I’m in wait and see more before I decide whether it will be fun.
Why would anyone think Teq will be anything other than what Grenth or the Karka Queen have become. They were made more ‘interesting’ explicitly for the same mythical ‘hardcore’ player, the player that exists on the forums and is just ‘gone’ like everyone else in-game. Teq will undoubtedly see some large guild attention if the reward is high enough. It will also undoubtedly be a failure fest on the same order as previous attempts and will only serve to empty that part of the open world.
The answer is to create instances of tiered difficulty for those wishing more challenge. The open world should be designed for the player you find there, i.e., a wide diversity of players, largely without voice chat, who are not playing from an interrupt list. It’s actually fairly straightforward from a design perspective; I don’t understand why Anet struggles with this.
If at first you don’t succeed, try try again.
The karka queen was poorly conceived, because it required too much coordination for anyone but guilds. This event seems to be different. More like games with the trinity where everyone learns their role. The guys on the guns are probably the ones who need to be sharpest, because they can disperse the poison and buff people. But there’ll be plenty of people who there there, who just need to DPS, just like most raids.
Saying it didn’t work here so it won’t work anywhere is only true if the situation is the same across the board.
But because you have to hold four different towns, for a chance for the karka queen to spawn (as opposed to T’quatl who is there already), it’s a completely different situation.
Also, on my server at least, temple events are done fairly regularly.
If you look at which servers do temple events regularly, it’s easy to see a pattern. A few servers seem to have the temples open regularly, some servers have some of them open some of the time. Some servers have none of them open most of the time. On my old server, attendance at temple events dropped to nil once the last of the Risen changes took effect. Before that, with the exception of Balthazar, temples were being done daily. On my new server, attendance is no better. Dwayna, Melandru and Lyssa get done maybe once a week, give or take. Grenth and Balthazar, never, or nearly so.
As with virtually everything, it seems like small groups of players will do content they enjoy, while everyone else flocks either to the most recent limited-window-achievement-fest and/or to the latest we’ll-allow-you-to-farm-fest.
Stopped reading the thread about 1/5 way thru but my assumption is that we won’t more tiers, but rather more skills & weapon options to set us apart.
Flixx Gatebuster, Orwynn Lightgrave, Seras Snapdragon
[TTBH] [HATE], Yak’s Bend(NA)
[TTBH] [HATE], Yak’s Bend(NA)
Stopped reading the thread about 1/5 way thru but my assumption is that we won’t more tiers, but rather more skills & weapon options to set us apart.
At least, we will if that satiates the insatiable.
-snip-
Dungeons can be challenging as long as you don’t follow the meta. Pity ANet seems intent on not providing more of that.
-snip-
?Have you heard about Tequatl Rising? Colin also implied that it would be the first of many world boss revamps.
I have. The new Teq is neither a dungeon, a regular DE, nor a temple event back in the day when they were fun. It’s essentially an open world raid where anyone can try to participate. It’s going to be a clusterskritt at first.
This initiative will perhaps be good for some players, maybe a large percentage of them However, to me, it’s going to be another massive mess of spell effects obscuring the screen. This will continue if the rewards prompt ongoing efforts to complete it over the long haul. If the rewards do not promote regular attendance, it will become yet another empty wasteland.
I’m in wait and see more before I decide whether it will be fun.
Why would anyone think Teq will be anything other than what Grenth or the Karka Queen have become. They were made more ‘interesting’ explicitly for the same mythical ‘hardcore’ player, the player that exists on the forums and is just ‘gone’ like everyone else in-game. Teq will undoubtedly see some large guild attention if the reward is high enough. It will also undoubtedly be a failure fest on the same order as previous attempts and will only serve to empty that part of the open world.
The answer is to create instances of tiered difficulty for those wishing more challenge. The open world should be designed for the player you find there, i.e., a wide diversity of players, largely without voice chat, who are not playing from an interrupt list. It’s actually fairly straightforward from a design perspective; I don’t understand why Anet struggles with this.
If at first you don’t succeed, try try again.
The karka queen was poorly conceived, because it required too much coordination for anyone but guilds. This event seems to be different. More like games with the trinity where everyone learns their role. The guys on the guns are probably the ones who need to be sharpest, because they can disperse the poison and buff people. But there’ll be plenty of people who there there, who just need to DPS, just like most raids.
Saying it didn’t work here so it won’t work anywhere is only true if the situation is the same across the board.
But because you have to hold four different towns, for a chance for the karka queen to spawn (as opposed to T’quatl who is there already), it’s a completely different situation.
Also, on my server at least, temple events are done fairly regularly.
What I’m saying is that it is the same across the board. Truly challenging content requires designated leadership (if there are strategies to be followed, they must be communicated), high coordination (voice chat is required), etc. Anyone who has raided in other games understands this intuitively. This is not what you find in the open world. Just as form follows function in design elsewhere, open world PvE should be designed for the player and environment you find there.
And, last time I was in the CS on your server, Grenth was still failing 99% of the time. And, the Karka Queen timer is at best measured in days rather than hours. I do agree that TC is one of the better servers in terms of group participation, but these events are simply failure fests even there.
So, if at first you don’t succeed it might be better to learn the lessons of the past rather than just trying again.
(edited by Raine.1394)
I’d be annoyed if they added ascended gear and created new content that you needed it for, or you couldn’t be successful. As it stands, I like it. MMO’s need something to progress on. They’ve mentioned ascended and legendary tiers being added to the game, and currently the legendary tier is even stat-wise. Its almost impossible to think of a more horizontal progression than that. Just think… 5 years from now these weapons that take a couple weeks to make will still be the top weapons potentially. Not even that, but they found a purpose for blues and greens as well… I would have been content just vendoring them, and now you even have a choice on what to do with your useless crap. Seems like a great set of concepts to me.
This is what we need – finally the devs seem to be on the right track.
Players should not be different through gear but through skills and personal skill.
If here they fall they shall live on when ever you cry “For Ascalon!”
Their thought process, which I shared before it happened, was that people would go for the cosmetic only upgrades if the game was fun enough…except that some people care about efficiency over fun. Anet wasn’t prepared for that. Saying they should have been is your opinion.
Except it was never about fun vs efficiency, or any other thing. Most of the locust are a migrating species that swarm any new game, and leaves it shortly after regardless of the game qualities. It’s because they are chasing their dream game, which, in most cases, is WoW or perhaps some other old game they played once, but idealized and “perfected” in their thoughts. Since they are chasing a dream, an ideal MMO, they are not going to find it, regardless of what developers will do. Any new MMO should be prepared for the influx and eventual loss of this group. They cannot be retained.
And, of course, those of them that devoured content in weeks and leave the game because they got bored cannot be retained as well, short of introducing a grind that would be noticeable even in a korean MMO. They again has to be marked as a lost case from the very beginning (unless, of course, the developer is aiming to make a hardcore grindfest game).
Especially with a lot of prelaunch hype (which means lot of people buying the game, that wouldn’t be interested in it normally – and of course finding they are not interested shortly after launch).
This is something that has been happening consistently to any MMO (and not only mmo) since… i don’t know, ever? (or at least since the MMo games started getting out of a narrow niche customer group). Expecting that this time it will be different… well
“Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.”
Albert Einstein
Actions, not words.
Remember, remember, 15th of November
Remember, remember, 15th of November
Their thought process, which I shared before it happened, was that people would go for the cosmetic only upgrades if the game was fun enough…except that some people care about efficiency over fun. Anet wasn’t prepared for that. Saying they should have been is your opinion.
This is also a way of saying they weren’t prepared to keep making the game fun. It isn’t entirely people caring about efficiency over fun. While that is true, the flip side is what if they released a decent free expansion every few months instead of 2 weeks, with new content that involved more than a zerg and AP grind and a deeper story actually having to do with the lore and actual fun content to partake in. Would people be fine with no new tiers of gear to grind? Guess we’ll never know. So instead, here’s new gear that serves no purpose.
People have run out of things to do after a year and needed more to do. Adding in a new gear tier just for the sake of something to do is a poor reason to do so.
And on top of that this is about as unfriendly to new players as it can possibly be. This may be cheap and nothing to people who have stock-piled the last year or at least the last few months……but telling new players crafting is the only way to get the best gear, and that they must grind it, that it is time-gated and that they must pay for or farm to level crafting to 500 is very unfriendly. Play as you want indeed.
(edited by MrRuin.9740)
No. Ascended gear is boring to get. If they bore me I will complain. Don’t care if I never have to do it again.
I hate peas, if you make me eat peas I’ll fuss (especially if it’s a big heaping plateful). Even if you say it’s unlikely I’ll have to eat them again.
Some people like peas, that’s cool with me. Enjoy. Personally, I think that taste terrible.
Good news then. No one is making you eat peas, nor are they making you grind ascended gear.
I like peas btw. Steamed. Keeps them sweet and snappy (instead of mushy).
Snow peas in the pod are ok. But as for the other ones, no, you don’t like them. You just think you do (kidding).
Ascended weapons are here to stay, no amount of QQ will change that. In some ways, it was a good try. They are pushing people to do a lot of different things to gather materials, temples, jumping puzzles, champions, world bosses, dungeons(???) etc…
However, there are terrible aspects to it, where I think they missed the boat entirely. Grinding 50 levels of crafting with 25 levels of recipes is oh so bad. Progress grinds to a halt. I don’t know how many discoveries it actually takes, I’m guessing that someone will figure it out, but it’s too many. (This may be because I had previously crafted gear for 7 alts. Probably about 21-25 weapons or more, so been there, done that)
No one is making me play this game at all. But honestly, if the content is out there I’m going to check it out. So no, they aren’t making me do ascended gear, but I still salvaged about 15 exotics and grinded to crafting level 439 before deciding that it was too boring / tedious.
I just think that boredom is the worst addition to the game.
You don’t even know the half of it. Here’s the list of mats required to craft an Ascended Greatsword after you’ve reached 500 Weaponsmithing: http://dulfy.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/gw2-ascended-greatsword-crafting-32.jpg
It’s practically the Legendary grind all over again, just in a slightly more manageable form. I said it last year; I’ll never have a Legendary weapon. Now I’ll say it this year. I’ll never have an Ascended weapon.
Don’t get me wrong, I’ve done grinds before. Hundreds of days spent in other MMOs doing dailies and reaping their rewards. Crafting disciplines maxed and then maxed again when the next expansion or update is released. Mats farmed, epic items crafted, you know the deal. But in GW2 the grind isn’t fun because there’s no payoff at the end. I don’t want to spend weeks of my life in pursuit of such lame rewards.
Legendaries weren’t worth my time and Ascended weapons aren’t worth my time. There’s so many other treadmills worth running. GW2 definitely isn’t one of them.
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