Guild Wars 2

If you have played Guild Wars 2, by now, you should know that most users, when it comes to bosses in the game, like to idle around the ground when defeated, hoping someone will revive them. However, their very presence scales the fight and just makes things harder to accomplish, especially when there is a timer involved. Such an occurrence tends to make a toxic PVE experience and I believe that a forced waypoint rez will also discourage any leaching. Way-pointing by itself does not remove you from participation credit of an event, for people who regularly play HOT maps.

Is it possible to force dead users to rez their closest found way point after being dead for more than twenty seconds? If the user doesn’t have any funds for a forced waypoint on them, they should be sent to the nearest major city free of charge.

Or dead players could just not count towards scaling? That seems like a better solution to me than to force players to go to a WP.

OriOri.8724:

Or dead players could just not count towards scaling? That seems like a better solution to me than to force players to go to a WP.

I could also see that as a solution as well. It seems simple enough, but I just don’t know how probable it is. I am not familiar enough with their coding. I only know that a forced rez is possible from other aspects from the game. Though, would people on the ground get participation rewards too? Because that seems unfair to the people actually bringing the boss down.

I thought the Devs stated that defeated characters did not count in scaling long ago.

How is this still a myth? :\ Like Inculpatus cedo said, the devs stated outright that defeated characters stop counting for scaling. I think there’s a small time gap before the scaling check happens, but dead character do not count for scaling.

We don’t need forced waypointing.

It’s considerate to do so anyway, since it can distract others into attempting healing, getting more people downed or wasting dps time.

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

I thought the Devs stated that defeated characters did not count in scaling long ago.

I seem to remember a statement to that effect as well.

How about avoiding corpses at all and reviving people while they are downed?

We have a large group of players who still beleive, helping a downed ally is the worst thing you can do in a boss fight. Those people beleive their contribution to the dps is critical and should never stop at all, at any cost. Some of them are focused enough to rather risk a full wipe instead of “wasting” 5 seconds of their precious time.

Not to mention the fact that they also let their healers/buffers/cleansers & tanks die, just because dps>all. When the tank is gone, the boss aims for the next. If there are only zerkers arround, it is russian roulette. When the healers are gone, the ammount of corpses increase. And so the ammount of players who refuse to WP.

Don’t blame the few guys who refuse to WP, they are not the problem. Change the problem in the heads of the players. The entire situation is created by the players themselves. Teach your people to revive downed people instead of ignoring them.

Actually if you lay dead (not downed, but defeated), you are hurting the fight, because people may accidentally select you over a downed (not dying) ally that is still contributing to the fight. You also run the risk of people that don’t know any better that hard ressing takes longer, putting themselves in danger and getting themselves killed because they were being considerate! Yes, they can manually select, but you’re still making it hard for them. WP back.

I think it should be like in WvW where you can’t res dead people in combat (and should remove the option as well as that gets annoyed).

And yes, picking where to die is a good skill too. ie, thieves and eles can reposition themselves so that even if they die, it’s out of the fight.

They should have made big bosses separate events. Imagine how much easier it would be if world bosses were like activities that you could simply queue into instead of having to plan your day around. Reviving could have worked like PvP, where either someone could help you or you’d be auto revived at a set point.

For events as is, bring back revival shrines to auto revive people every 60 or whatever seconds.

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

I thought the Devs stated that defeated characters did not count in scaling long ago.

That was long ago. It’s no longer true today. Originally you actually had to actively hit the boss to be factored, which allowed larger groups of people to kill bosses before they could actually scale. Late into season 1, they fixed that problem by simply factoring everyone within the event’s area, including the dead.

It isn’t always possible to rez everyone who downs. With area denials, carpet bombs, and large, attack radiuses with heavy power the newer bosses exhibit , going to in rez puts you in direct harm’s way and only results in lower DPS. If it’s possible, I will help other players, but I will not put myself on the line if it will take me out as well. That is just stupid and counterproductive.

HnRkLnXqZ.1870:

How about avoiding corpses at all and reviving people while they are downed?

We have a large group of players who still beleive, helping a downed ally is the worst thing you can do in a boss fight. Those people beleive their contribution to the dps is critical and should never stop at all, at any cost. Some of them are focused enough to rather risk a full wipe instead of “wasting” 5 seconds of their precious time.

Not to mention the fact that they also let their healers/buffers/cleansers & tanks die, just because dps>all. When the tank is gone, the boss aims for the next. If there are only zerkers arround, it is russian roulette. When the healers are gone, the ammount of corpses increase. And so the ammount of players who refuse to WP.

Don’t blame the few guys who refuse to WP, they are not the problem. Change the problem in the heads of the players. The entire situation is created by the players themselves. Teach your people to revive downed people instead of ignoring them.

relevant
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cPKHE_2SiHQ

HnRkLnXqZ.1870:

How about avoiding corpses at all and reviving people while they are downed?

We have a large group of players who still beleive, helping a downed ally is the worst thing you can do in a boss fight. Those people beleive their contribution to the dps is critical and should never stop at all, at any cost. Some of them are focused enough to rather risk a full wipe instead of “wasting” 5 seconds of their precious time.

Not to mention the fact that they also let their healers/buffers/cleansers & tanks die, just because dps>all. When the tank is gone, the boss aims for the next. If there are only zerkers arround, it is russian roulette. When the healers are gone, the ammount of corpses increase. And so the ammount of players who refuse to WP.

Don’t blame the few guys who refuse to WP, they are not the problem. Change the problem in the heads of the players. The entire situation is created by the players themselves. Teach your people to revive downed people instead of ignoring them.

Well you dont really need healers buffers or tanks in any other content then raids mate so there is that.

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

I thought the Devs stated that defeated characters did not count in scaling long ago.

It may be true that Anet has made this statement, I couldn’t find a reference. In regards to scaling the Wiki references ONLY a player report which used a (“illegal”) 3rd party tool.

There is also the issue that because everyone can rez, GW2 PvE players often have it ingrained that if someone is down or dead they should stop and rez them. So dead players also “interfere” because people feel compelled to stop what they’re doing and rez them. Many times I have had the experience of waiting near the start of an event where I can see someone AFK (not necessarily a farmer) in a bad place who gets downed / killed over and over. And each time someone happens by and rezzes them.

HnRkLnXqZ.1870:

The entire situation is created by the players themselves. Teach your people to revive downed people instead of ignoring them.

That is not the experience I have in this game, in Open World content as well as Fractals. It’s rather the opposite, people run to resurrect downed players even if just killing the mob that downed player is hitting from the downed state only needs one more shot to allow rallying. I often think “omg, that is so nice, but it would really help me more if you just killed that trash mob I’m throwing daggers at.”

And people also drop everything and run to resurrect dead people, which makes no sense most of the time.

The first thing that dropped my jaw when i started this game was the amazing helpfullness when you got downed. People speeding towards you to help you up and so inspiring me to do the same.

What a dissapointement to see there are already forces at work to condemn it to the ‘not done’ corner.

I fail to see why anyone is against this?
Yes you should revive during down state, but when you’re dead, quit being lazy. I can’t tell how many times after trying to revive a dead body, only to be carpet bombed by aoe. I now intentionally avoid those fully down, and ping the nearest waypoint. This would be a great idea to add

Another solution: disable revive of dead people while in combat just like in WvW. Now there is no reason for dead people to wait for a revive anymore.

Nick Lentz.6982:

I fail to see why anyone is against this?
Yes you should revive during down state, but when you’re dead, quit being lazy. I can’t tell how many times after trying to revive a dead body, only to be carpet bombed by aoe. I now intentionally avoid those fully down, and ping the nearest waypoint. This would be a great idea to add

And if you don’t have a nearby waypoint and won’t get back in time? Then should you port? Maybe you used teleport to a friend to get into the fight and don’t have any waypoints in the area at all.

It’s happened to me.

HnRkLnXqZ.1870:

How about avoiding corpses at all and reviving people while they are downed?

I revive people if they are downed but during a boss fight I see it as entirely optional. Yes, that works both ways. There are times I wished the person reviving me kept shooting at the boss rather than trying to rez me. Especially since there seems to be an obligatory ty/yw at the end when the best strategy is both backing off a bit (or even further for a full heal), hitting their heal skills, then returning to the fight a few seconds later.

dead people in this game are so lazy…

Non participating people do scale events, dead or not. However, I have never, in nearly 5 years of GW2, seen that because someone is defeated, and 5 people to to revive, as that causing an event to fail.

I’m not defending the action of not waypointing, but really, 6 people not dealing damage for 5-10 seconds is hardly anything based on the fight scaled to probably 60+ people.

Djinn.9245:

There is also the issue that because everyone can rez, GW2 PvE players often have it ingrained that if someone is down or dead they should stop and rez them. So dead players also “interfere” because people feel compelled to stop what they’re doing and rez them. Many times I have had the experience of waiting near the start of an event where I can see someone AFK (not necessarily a farmer) in a bad place who gets downed / killed over and over. And each time someone happens by and rezzes them.

I will never forget the one time someone went AFK in a REALLY bad place with all sorts of bling that showed they should know better (commander tag, ‘been there, done that’, whatever). After the second time when I was in the area and rezzed him without him moving I slapped on my own tag and at the next event specifically told people to ignore him.

Faaris.8013:

HnRkLnXqZ.1870:

The entire situation is created by the players themselves. Teach your people to revive downed people instead of ignoring them.

That is not the experience I have in this game, in Open World content as well as Fractals. It’s rather the opposite, people run to resurrect downed players even if just killing the mob that downed player is hitting from the downed state only needs one more shot to allow rallying. I often think “omg, that is so nice, but it would really help me more if you just killed that trash mob I’m throwing daggers at.”

And people also drop everything and run to resurrect dead people, which makes no sense most of the time.

Yes, I am sure the times I have not rezzed new players think I am being mean. Meanwhile vets realize I saw the thing they were throwing stuff at was almost dead and it was MUCH more efficient for me to just kill it to help their rally/stop the danger rather than take myself out of action.

Vayne.8563:

Nick Lentz.6982:

I fail to see why anyone is against this?
Yes you should revive during down state, but when you’re dead, quit being lazy. I can’t tell how many times after trying to revive a dead body, only to be carpet bombed by aoe. I now intentionally avoid those fully down, and ping the nearest waypoint. This would be a great idea to add

And if you don’t have a nearby waypoint and won’t get back in time? Then should you port? Maybe you used teleport to a friend to get into the fight and don’t have any waypoints in the area at all.

It’s happened to me.

I am pretty sure that could be adjusted to be nearest waypoint. It happens in wvw, shouldn’t be hard.
Even then, you shouldn’t be on a toon who doesn’t have the proper area charted for a boss.

Abakk.9176:

The first thing that dropped my jaw when i started this game was the amazing helpfullness when you got downed. People speeding towards you to help you up and so inspiring me to do the same.

What a dissapointement to see there are already forces at work to condemn it to the ‘not done’ corner.

By no means am I against rezzing. Even if it means I am likely going to die myself I will take the chance IF it helps the group.

If you want to renew your faith look at where someone was killed after the action has left their immediate area and there is a few seconds reprieve while the NPC is running to the next mob. Likely you will get the message that there are too many people trying to resurrect someone.

Defeated players could become environmental weapons. If they are used to do a certain amount of damage they are revived.

maddoctor.2738:

Another solution: disable revive of dead people while in combat just like in WvW. Now there is no reason for dead people to wait for a revive anymore.

The only benefit of disabling revivals is to prevent them from interfering with the interact button, like how the dead grief adventures. Dead players are mostly AFKers, so they don’t care, they’re just going to lay there until the end. The smart ones don’t even participate, they just tag the boss then go do something else. If they want to stop that behavior, the game needs a contribution meter that is more than just hitting the boss once.

Healix.5819:

maddoctor.2738:

Another solution: disable revive of dead people while in combat just like in WvW. Now there is no reason for dead people to wait for a revive anymore.

The only benefit of disabling revivals is to prevent them from interfering with the interact button, like how the dead grief adventures. Dead players are mostly AFKers, so they don’t care, they’re just going to lay there until the end. The smart ones don’t even participate, they just tag the boss then go do something else. If they want to stop that behavior, the game needs a contribution meter that is more than just hitting the boss once.

Just NOT like they did in the HOT zones, where if you do not tag an event in a certain time period you time out. Obviously someone forgot some dynamic events do not scale well so it is hard to get in many hits. Not to mention that when several events are near each other you can wind up participating in one you did not mean to be in and losing the work you put in on the first.

maddoctor.2738:

Another solution: disable revive of dead people while in combat just like in WvW. Now there is no reason for dead people to wait for a revive anymore.

I disagree with this. There are other times in open world that it’s nice to rez a dead person because maybe they didn’t WP because they don’t have a close WP yet. And there are classes that have abilities that allow them to rez while being hit by a mob so why should they have to kill the mob first and get out of combat if they want to stop and rez someone?

maddoctor.2738:

Another solution: disable revive of dead people while in combat just like in WvW. Now there is no reason for dead people to wait for a revive anymore.

Yes I really hope they put this into the game mate.

Menadena.7482:

Abakk.9176:

The first thing that dropped my jaw when i started this game was the amazing helpfullness when you got downed. People speeding towards you to help you up and so inspiring me to do the same.

What a dissapointement to see there are already forces at work to condemn it to the ‘not done’ corner.

By no means am I against rezzing. Even if it means I am likely going to die myself I will take the chance IF it helps the group.

If you want to renew your faith look at where someone was killed after the action has left their immediate area and there is a few seconds reprieve while the NPC is running to the next mob. Likely you will get the message that there are too many people trying to resurrect someone.

Who cares? You are playing a game and it is a friendly act. There is even a Mastery that makes it faster. I am currently working on it and looking forward to utilise it on all that are down, in whatever circumstance and wether it helps the group or not.

Because I prefer the unconditional approach. Down is down and it’s my duty to revive my unfortunate comrads in arms…. even if it kills me.

People need to take their games less serious.. way less.

Abakk.9176:

Menadena.7482:

Abakk.9176:

The first thing that dropped my jaw when i started this game was the amazing helpfullness when you got downed. People speeding towards you to help you up and so inspiring me to do the same.

What a dissapointement to see there are already forces at work to condemn it to the ‘not done’ corner.

By no means am I against rezzing. Even if it means I am likely going to die myself I will take the chance IF it helps the group.

If you want to renew your faith look at where someone was killed after the action has left their immediate area and there is a few seconds reprieve while the NPC is running to the next mob. Likely you will get the message that there are too many people trying to resurrect someone.

Who cares? You are playing a game and it is a friendly act. There is even a Mastery that makes it faster. I am currently working on it and looking forward to utilise it on all that are down, in whatever circumstance and wether it helps the group or not.

Because I prefer the unconditional approach. Down is down and it’s my duty to revive my unfortunate comrads in arms…. even if it kills me.

People need to take their games less serious.. way less.

Yes and that mastery only work on people below 80 mate so 99% of the time useless at world bosses.

Edit
Noone is asking downed people to die and wp they will get revived if it can be, but if you have 5 dead people and 1 downed how easy is it to target the downed?

Djinn.9245:

maddoctor.2738:

Another solution: disable revive of dead people while in combat just like in WvW. Now there is no reason for dead people to wait for a revive anymore.

I disagree with this. There are other times in open world that it’s nice to rez a dead person because maybe they didn’t WP because they don’t have a close WP yet. And there are classes that have abilities that allow them to rez while being hit by a mob so why should they have to kill the mob first and get out of combat if they want to stop and rez someone?

What kind of mob is this, that takes longer to kill than reviving a dead person? Maybe the one doing the reviving has some different (and more important) issues if it takes him longer to kill a mob than revive a person.

Healix.5819:

The only benefit of disabling revivals is to prevent them from interfering with the interact button, like how the dead grief adventures. Dead players are mostly AFKers, so they don’t care, they’re just going to lay there until the end. The smart ones don’t even participate, they just tag the boss then go do something else. If they want to stop that behavior, the game needs a contribution meter that is more than just hitting the boss once.

Even if it’s only to stop the interact button from working on dead people it’s a good start. Not solving all problems obviously but it does help a bit.

If you’re downed, I’ll do what I can to get you back on your feet.

If you’re dead, you’re on your own.

It’s bosses like The Shatterer where dead people annoy me the most. The waypoint is right there, I can SEE it! And yet they’re demanding to be rezzed.

maddoctor.2738:

Djinn.9245:

maddoctor.2738:

Another solution: disable revive of dead people while in combat just like in WvW. Now there is no reason for dead people to wait for a revive anymore.

I disagree with this. There are other times in open world that it’s nice to rez a dead person because maybe they didn’t WP because they don’t have a close WP yet. And there are classes that have abilities that allow them to rez while being hit by a mob so why should they have to kill the mob first and get out of combat if they want to stop and rez someone?

What kind of mob is this, that takes longer to kill than reviving a dead person? Maybe the one doing the reviving has some different (and more important) issues if it takes him longer to kill a mob than revive a person.

Way to turn my point into “L2P” lol. That wasn’t my point. If I’m running along and I see a dead person, I might stop to rez them. If after I start rezing a mob decides to attack me, I shouldn’t have to stop rezing and kill the mob so I can start rezing again.

Djinn.9245:

maddoctor.2738:

Djinn.9245:

maddoctor.2738:

Another solution: disable revive of dead people while in combat just like in WvW. Now there is no reason for dead people to wait for a revive anymore.

I disagree with this. There are other times in open world that it’s nice to rez a dead person because maybe they didn’t WP because they don’t have a close WP yet. And there are classes that have abilities that allow them to rez while being hit by a mob so why should they have to kill the mob first and get out of combat if they want to stop and rez someone?

What kind of mob is this, that takes longer to kill than reviving a dead person? Maybe the one doing the reviving has some different (and more important) issues if it takes him longer to kill a mob than revive a person.

Way to turn my point into “L2P” lol. That wasn’t my point. If I’m running along and I see a dead person, I might stop to rez them. If after I start rezing a mob decides to attack me, I shouldn’t have to stop rezing and kill the mob so I can start rezing again.

It’s way faster to rez someone when out of combat than in combat, so unless you are almost done with ressing, killing the mob first will be faster anyway. I don’t understand why that dead person would mind if the mob dies before they are up though. Or why do you care to rez before dealing with some minor interruption first

The only place ressing dead people (instead of fighting first) is useful, is in dungeons when some party member lures the boss away so the others can rez their dead friends. I don’t see it as a problem in the open world at all

This is a really tricky thing to sort, as it’s one of those things where the problems caused by dead people being lazy or afk, not so much the rezzing system itself. I hate the people that just stay dead for virtually a whole boss fight, as mentioned above, it’s not a scaling issue, it’s the fact that several active players go to rez them which lowers dps & cc on the boss.

Where it’s most annoying are things like the end of DS where so many people afk or just stand there managing inventory not giving a crap about the event, and yet people keep wasting time rezzing them for them to die seconds later again.

But even with that in mind I don’t think an auto rez after x seconds would be entirely fair either, as if a boss is only at 5-10% and somebody who’s been fighting dies fully, then I can understand them staying dead for a few minutes till it’s killed so they can be rezzed after it.

Maybe the removal of the rez option for fully dead people while in combat that has been suggested is the best way, even if it’s not a perfect solution. Or perhaps some sort of debuff could be applied to people who have been dead for x amount of minutes as an incentive to WP rather than stay dead. For example if you stay dead for more than 5 mins, then when you get rezzed you have a debuff of -10%MF for 15mins or something, just some noticeable effect to put people off staying dead. Maybe the debuff could even get worse the longer you’ve stayed dead.

I just can’t agree with the OP. There are some maps, and I’m thinking HoT here, where the nearest WP can be a 10 min run and glide from where you were downed, and unless you know your way around very well you might not even be able to find your way back from the nearest WP. In some cases the nearest WP is actually the longest way back.
If there were WP’s near all the major bosses, then it wouldn’t be an issue, people wouldn’t lie there defeated if they knew they could be back in the fight in 20-30 seconds. But that just isn’t the case with any of the new maps, HoT or LS3.
Be a decent person and just res them, it’s not a race for max dps. So what if the boss takes an extra 20 seconds to kill. I quite often cross a battlefield just to res people. GW2 is a game I enjoy, and I’m happy to spend a little of my time helping others enjoy it. It’s just not in me to leave another player downed.

Endless Soul.5178:

If you’re downed, I’ll do what I can to get you back on your feet.

If you’re dead, you’re on your own.

It’s bosses like The Shatterer where dead people annoy me the most. The waypoint is right there, I can SEE it! And yet they’re demanding to be rezzed.

Yeah, people choosing to lie there dead at the Arah event bother me. The waypoint is just a few feet away, and yet some people demand a rez.

Ragnar Stormcaller.6253:

If there were WP’s near all the major bosses, then it wouldn’t be an issue, people wouldn’t lie there defeated if they knew they could be back in the fight in 20-30 seconds.

While a lot would WP if there was one closer, sadly many lazy players still wouldn’t, Shatterer and DS boss being prime examples, WPs are right there literally seconds away, yet lots still stay dead calling to be rezzed instead, and of course there’s the afk lot that stay dead & keep getting rezzed.

Most of the problem isn’t so much mechanics as the attitude of some players, and you’re never going to fix that. Lazy players and AFKers are going to be a problem no matter how the rez system is laid out.

If I’m dead dead, my choice depends on several things: how close is the boss to being down? How has the fight gone so far? How near is the WP and do I know my way back? Am I in an accessible place for rezzing? And so on.

I also use those metrics if someone’s down or even dead. And, if I can take a little bit of time and rez them safely, I will. I figure it’s getting them back into the fight quicker and that benefits the group. The short time I’m not doing damage will be made up by having another player back in the game faster than they might be otherwise.

It would be nice to see something definitive on the scaling issue, though, with the conflicting accounts in this thread. Knowing that for sure would definitely affect my decisions on rezzing both self and others.

It would be nice if they had a settings option for opt-in rez. Meaning, if you enable that setting, after you are defeated you don’t provide a rez icon or prompt to other players until a small countdown passes and then you press a button to enable rezzing (e.g. F button). It would give players another courteous option besides WPing in fights.

My stance on this is not too popular, but here it is anyhow:

Waypointing out of combat should be disallowed (like in dungeons or fractals). Also, dead characters SHOULD count towards scaling (they do not now).

My reasoning is that this is a cooperative game. Players should be reviving defeated players on the “don’t leave a fellow soldier behind” principle. My stance would force players to revive their fallen comrades. However, it may also require some changes to the overall scaling formulas in use.

Daddicus.6128:

My stance on this is not too popular, but here it is anyhow:

Waypointing out of combat should be disallowed (like in dungeons or fractals). Also, dead characters SHOULD count towards scaling (they do not now).

My reasoning is that this is a cooperative game. Players should be reviving defeated players on the “don’t leave a fellow soldier behind” principle. My stance would force players to revive their fallen comrades. However, it may also require some changes to the overall scaling formulas in use.

I agree on the “don’t leave a fellow soldier behind” principle but not so much with forcing players into situations. In the end that only serves the ones that want to fight the perfect efficient battles in which all should fall in line.

The beauty of GW2 is (IMO) that people are free to join (wander in) the fight or not and are free to res fellowplayers and generally do so in the spirit of returning the favor. It doesn’t have to be picture perfect and yes there could be a lot of improvements if you look at it from a tight perfectionistic angle.

It doesn’t have to be a perfect and strict military action when it is already an enjoyable voluntary passtime.

There is always so much uptight performance aiming in these games. The way GW2 is set up gives so much freedom and space… why would you change any of that in favor of bland number min-maxing.

HnRkLnXqZ.1870:

How about avoiding corpses at all and reviving people while they are downed?

1) I am sorry but we are not in the type of relationship that would make me want to walk through fire to save you.

2) OP is talking about dead not down.

ArchonWing.9480:

Actually if you lay dead (not downed, but defeated), you are hurting the fight, because people may accidentally select you over a downed (not dying) ally that is still contributing to the fight. You also run the risk of people that don’t know any better that hard ressing takes longer, putting themselves in danger and getting themselves killed because they were being considerate! Yes, they can manually select, but you’re still making it hard for them. WP back.

I think it should be like in WvW where you can’t res dead people in combat (and should remove the option as well as that gets annoyed).

Disabling ressing dead while in combat would not help with the issue you raised of interfering since you can still interact with the dead. You just end up with a message telling you that you can’t res dead while in combat.

Faaris.8013:

That is not the experience I have in this game, in Open World content as well as Fractals. It’s rather the opposite, people run to resurrect downed players even if just killing the mob that downed player is hitting from the downed state only needs one more shot to allow rallying. I often think “omg, that is so nice, but it would really help me more if you just killed that trash mob I’m throwing daggers at.”

And people also drop everything and run to resurrect dead people, which makes no sense most of the time.

There is also the opposite … you kill half a dozen mobs around someone and they did not rally because they didn’t hit any of the mobs.

Vayne.8563:

And if you don’t have a nearby waypoint and won’t get back in time? Then should you port? Maybe you used teleport to a friend to get into the fight and don’t have any waypoints in the area at all.

It’s happened to me.

Maybe they shouldn’t be making the WPs so sparse.

Menadena.7482:

Especially since there seems to be an obligatory ty/yw at the end when the best strategy is both backing off a bit (or even further for a full heal), hitting their heal skills, then returning to the fight a few seconds later.

That is so hateful. If you really want to thank me then GTFO the AoE instead … oh look you are downed again.

Menadena.7482:

Just NOT like they did in the HOT zones, where if you do not tag an event in a certain time period you time out. Obviously someone forgot some dynamic events do not scale well so it is hard to get in many hits. Not to mention that when several events are near each other you can wind up participating in one you did not mean to be in and losing the work you put in on the first.

I think you still get the item rewards in those cases. You just lose out on the karma and exp and possibly collection item.

Djinn.9245:

maddoctor.2738:

What kind of mob is this, that takes longer to kill than reviving a dead person? Maybe the one doing the reviving has some different (and more important) issues if it takes him longer to kill a mob than revive a person.

Way to turn my point into “L2P” lol. That wasn’t my point. If I’m running along and I see a dead person, I might stop to rez them. If after I start rezing a mob decides to attack me, I shouldn’t have to stop rezing and kill the mob so I can start rezing again.

With the WvW implementation you do not have to stop in that situation. You will continue ressing. If you decide to stop ressing and try to resume again then you would need to get out of combat first.

In a way this whole thread is a L2P issue. People ressing at inappropriate times as well as people expecting to be ressed at inappropriate times. There has been way too many people asking to be ressed while in the middle of Matriarch/Patriarch’s fire or Golem Mk II’s electric field.

Sarpan.9074:

It would be nice to see something definitive on the scaling issue, though, with the conflicting accounts in this thread. Knowing that for sure would definitely affect my decisions on rezzing both self and others.

In the case of the Patriarch’s shield it only seems to scale up. It never scales back down. I can be fighting there alone then someone shows up and the shield will be scaled up. Even if I never see anyone else again for the next 15+ minutes the shield stays scaled up.

Daddicus.6128:

My stance on this is not too popular, but here it is anyhow:

Waypointing out of combat should be disallowed (like in dungeons or fractals). Also, dead characters SHOULD count towards scaling (they do not now).

My reasoning is that this is a cooperative game. Players should be reviving defeated players on the “don’t leave a fellow soldier behind” principle. My stance would force players to revive their fallen comrades. However, it may also require some changes to the overall scaling formulas in use.

Nope. Still won’t ress some people. For example people who would drag a mob out of its leash range and cause it to reset and anyone else who doesn’t know how to kite properly. Those people are more useful dead than alive.

Zeivu.3615:

If you have played Guild Wars 2, by now, you should know that most users, when it comes to bosses in the game, like to idle around the ground when defeated, hoping someone will revive them. However, their very presence scales the fight and just makes things harder to accomplish, especially when there is a timer involved. Such an occurrence tends to make a toxic PVE experience and I believe that a forced waypoint rez will also discourage any leaching. Way-pointing by itself does not remove you from participation credit of an event, for people who regularly play HOT maps.

Is it possible to force dead users to rez their closest found way point after being dead for more than twenty seconds? If the user doesn’t have any funds for a forced waypoint on them, they should be sent to the nearest major city free of charge.

I would say that this is a problem but I don’t see it as one and here’s why.

As a healer that does mostly Condi damage I spend most of my energy and focus on attacking adds and rezzing people. One of the things I do before a major fight or flying into one is swapping my elite skill or skills out to those skills that automatically resurrect. It cuts down on the time needed to stand there and attempt a rez on a downed person…..

For the people who are downed all the way and sitting in the middle of a death zone well even for me they’ll have to wait until the damage zone is gone before we can get there.

This topic drives me nuts. There’s some provable facts and the rest is all a matter of preference; there’s no “right” answer that applies to everyone. There are all sorts of other things that ANet could spend time on that would help out more of us more often.

The facts:

• Downed and dead contribute to the scaling. It can be easily shown with (admittedly, improper) use of DPS meters.
• The impact is substantial for mid-sized crowds; it’s less important for zergs, unless lots & lots of people are dead.
• Rezzing the dead results in a double loss of DPS: the dead and anyone rezzing them.
• No one loses credit for an event because they are running back from a WP (you have to be a little careful to collect loot, if the event ends before you return).

However, as a practical matter, none of this is that important. For example, the dead not running gliding back to the corrupted Wyvern (in DM) is almost certainly less important to success than people breaking defiance — if the bar is broken even once, the event succeeds, whereas 20% of the people not waypointing is rarely going to be the difference between success & failure.

So yes, people absolutely should waypoint — it helps everyone, including the player with the dead character. But no, I don’t think it ultimately matters enough for ANet to divert resources to forcing people to do so.

Khisanth.2948:

Djinn.9245:

maddoctor.2738:

What kind of mob is this, that takes longer to kill than reviving a dead person? Maybe the one doing the reviving has some different (and more important) issues if it takes him longer to kill a mob than revive a person.

Way to turn my point into “L2P” lol. That wasn’t my point. If I’m running along and I see a dead person, I might stop to rez them. If after I start rezing a mob decides to attack me, I shouldn’t have to stop rezing and kill the mob so I can start rezing again.

With the WvW implementation you do not have to stop in that situation. You will continue ressing. If you decide to stop ressing and try to resume again then you would need to get out of combat first.

I don’t understand your response in regard to my quote.

I’m going to highlight the actual problem …

Rezzing in this game is dumb, at least in PvE. The whole resurrection system (limited rezz skills, not working on defeated players, needing to rub them at melee range for a verry long time) makes sense in WvW and PvP, but not in PvE.

This entire system only has one purpose in PvE: To rezz people after the battle is over, after they have already missed everything. Or, to get players in alot of danger trying to rezz them during the battle, which usually not only does not succeed, but also makes everything worse if the encounter has alot of AoE attacks, etc.

Please do away with the rubbing system entirely in PvE.

We know that the developers feel healing is the weakest form of support, but rezzing is still important; not only do dead players contribute nothing to the battle, and can even be a liability; but moreover, that player that is dead is having no fun, in a video game.

We’ve all been there, sitting and watching people whack away at a boss for what feels like an eternity while we’re flattened and grayed out and can’t resurrect ourselves because its a dungeon or a fractal and our party is in combat.

This is not only boring and unrewarding, but it is also a waste of people’s time, something that is in short supply in this day and age.

Manual or forced waypointing is not the solution, because while old maps have alot of waypoints, the new ones don’t and the forced vertically also means that it can take literally 5-10 minutes just to get back to an encounter, assuming you have the neccessary masteries to do so at that. And I suspect this will only get worse over time, as players have been begging for less waypoints for years in order to create a more challenging game that doesn’t allow WP zerging encounters.

All classes have heal skills, most (all?) classes have rezz skills, make this viable alternatives to bring allies back to life. If you really want to prevent a better resurrection system from being too powerful, bring back significant armor damage penalties to keep a cap on how many times it can be viable.

@Hannelore: The slow resurrection is a punishment for dying. If you speed it up or allow resurrections from a distance (if I understood you correctly), death becomes even more meaningless than it is now. People would bother even less with staying alive at bosses, it’s effort and stress to watch movements to predict strikes and dodge out of red areas.

And I prefer the current situation over increasing damage to armor. I hated damage to armor/weapons in any game I played, it’s just stupid micro management.

Speeding up ressurection significantly would turn death basically into a stun that lasts as long as a fear. We already have those.