Guild Wars 2

Tl:dr:I dislike legendaries because they are a symbol of wealth instead of player skill/determination. But getting a legendary is the only goal left in the game.

‘Forge your legend’ These words are what struck me the most when watching the footage back at the beginning.
Together with the manifesto, they sold the game to me. Guild Wars 2 was presented as a game without a grind, where a player’s skill was crucial for advancement and to acquire the great rewards. So I thought that when I would see a player wielding a legendary weapon, I would respect them. That a legendary would be a symbol of doing remarkable and challenging things.

But it’s not, a legendary is a symbol of wealth. Wealth that can only be gained by playing the trading post, farming lodestones/dungeon rewards or buying gems. Every component outside the gift of mastery can be bought. Even the dungeon tokens can be bought buy LFGs that sell party invites for the final boss fight. The legendaries themselves can even be traded.

So now when I see a legendary in game I think ‘great an other rich guy showing off’. I have over 1000 hours of gameplay and more then 4000 achievement points. I always did the most challenging content I could. I’m still nowhere near a legendary while marketplayers in my guild are making thousands of gold by making and selling them.

I have all the best equipment possible and have the exact look I want. Getting more gold isn’t the issue for me. Getting the legendary is, it’s the only goal left in the game. That’s sad isn’t it?

Maybe I should go back to single player game where the rewards actually do come from being the hero and where I can use mods to make the game actually difficult.

If the game has entertained you for over 1000 hours i’d say it’s quite logical that you’ve run out of content (i dont count legendary grind as content). After that amount of time spent, the only thing that can keep a game interesting is a competitive aspect, or (for some people that like it) a grind for some reward.

Competitive aspects in this game are pretty limited to the PvP side of things though. If you’re a PvE person there’s not much to pick from yet.

You can try to get high fractal level but that’s a grind cause you can’t choose to skip the levels that are below your capabilities. After the fractal fix happens, you could find someone at a fractal level that challenges you and directly play at that level as long as he’s in your party. That would enable you to skip the grindy part and just play challenging content with the goal of getting top fractal rank.

Other than that, GW1 had timed dungeons with leaderboards so that might make a return in GW2 in the future.

Bottomline though, if you’ve achieved all your PvE goals and have no interest in PvP it’s probably time to move on to another game until there’s new content to interest you.

Agree with OP. There is absolutely no status I attach to anyone with a legendary because of all of the reasons stated. Most bought it. Those that earned it are tainted by the majority of folks who bought it. I’d be mad if I earned mine and people could just buy it.

Grunties.6841:

Agree with OP. There is absolutely no status I attach to anyone with a legendary because of all of the reasons stated. Most bought it. Those that earned it are tainted by the majority of folks who bought it. I’d be mad if I earned mine and people could just buy it.

Please show us some proof that most bought it. I’d love to examine those numbers

Grunties.6841:

Agree with OP. There is absolutely no status I attach to anyone with a legendary because of all of the reasons stated. Most bought it. Those that earned it are tainted by the majority of folks who bought it. I’d be mad if I earned mine and people could just buy it.

I worked (played/grinded) by kitten off for months to get my legendary. Stating “most bought it” is nothing but insulting. You’re right about one thing – I am upset Arena Net are allowing these items to be purchased from the Trading Post. I think it cheapens both the item and the achievement considerably.

I have nearly 1200 hours and have two legendaries. And no, before you accuse, I don’t bot, nor do I play the TP. If anything, I grind, and also make investments (that’s different than playing the TP). My second one was lucky since I picked up Dusk and was able to sell it.

I’m guessing you are extremely inefficient at using your time to make money.

legendary is only a pretty skin, if u dont like it dont do it

the real issue here isnt the legendary..is because you care too much about how they obtained something, you should care about your char only not the others, as long it was legit in game ways, theres absolutely no reason for you to even have a little of care about it.

play your game, play your char, let others do whatever they want.

Luchifer.8026:

legendary is only a pretty skin, if u dont like it dont do it

Then they shouldn’t have sold it as something else.

The way it was presented by the developers themselves imply that it is meant to be GW2’s answer to all of the top gear in games like WoW.

And if that’s the case, then Legendaries in GW2 are positively put to shame by other MMO equivalents, as those games often have less grind for these items and have far more story and lore behind them, too.

But don’t take my word for it. Let’s listen to Mr Cartwright pump up how awesome Legendaries are supposed to be. And in your head, I want you to compare the tedious grind of GW2’s Legendaries with what he’s saying about them, and see if they really match up in your head. Then take a moment to go looking for comparable gear in other major MMOs and what it takes to get them. You’ll be quite surprised, I’ll bet.

Dunno about you, but the way he goes on about them, it doesn’t sound to me like they’re just meant to be “pretty skins” and nothing more. Heck, why make a video exclusively dedicated to boasting about them if that’s all they’re supposed to be: expensive crafting items?

“Legendaries are only a symbol of the players wallet size”, “I don’t like legendaries”, “make legendaries easier for me to get”…

Got it. And we got it with the 578 other threads JUST LIKE THIS ONE.

Jeml’s post should have shut this thread down.

Legendaries basically just say “look at how much gems I bought!” To me. But if they were skill based, like say Pvp rewards, people would kitten that they can’t get them

Flett.1296:

A 1000 hours. You win the game, it’s over. They did’nt design the game for people to basically live in it. Get a job or two, try seeing real life daylight. Maybe a girl friend. But really if you have played the game for more then 41+ days logged in game. Really you beat the game lol.

Thanks for this awesome response xD

As for the OP, yeah some lazy kitten will buy their stuff for legendary…. But that’s not playing, is it ?
The respect a Legendary inspires is the countless hours spent to explore the map, completing the WvW jumping puzzles and killing invaders, the many runs of Fractals (aka different run everytime), the grind in CoE to get those kitten Lodestones (can you tell i’m on that part ?), the karma farming in Orr in hope to get exotics so you can salvage them and get ectos, the friends you make on the way unlocking temples with 3-5 people instead of a whole zerg because your server is small, etc…

What do I get out of the Legendary i’m going for ? A wonderful motivation to complete the map (i actually enjoyed it) and I met like 10000 people doing all what I went through. All in all, it’s the experience of getting the legendary, not the item itself.
I dont expect respect from strangers while wielding my legendary, because the only people I really care about are my guildies, and they know I worked hard and legit to get it.

If you dont have a gf or anything, then you have ALL the time in the world to PLAY the game and get everything by yourself. Why do you care if someone bought their legendary ? You got yours the legit way, that’s all that counts.
They’re only pixels anyway, but the people you meet and the enjoyment you have out of playing the game is real.

Brighten up people !

I often read that legendaries are novelty items and is reflective of social status. This is the reason why I’m having 2nd thoughts on forging The Minstrel because it seems too cheap compared to the other legendaries. There is no prestige in crafting it. I don’t want people to look down on me for crafting the cheapest legendary even though I really want the design (bird). So my question is, should I still go for it (knowing I may not ever get another one because of the sheer difficulty, or wait for a bit and craft a more expensive one to get the attention a real legendary brings)

Its just a skin , purely estetic.Who specified that they were supposed to be a symbol for ‘’doing remarkable and challenging things’‘?
What I don’t understand is , what the kitten is it that you want?
If ‘’Legendaries are only a symbol of the players wallet size’’ and ‘’getting more gold isn’t an issue for you’’ , WHAT’S THE PROBLEM?
Legendaries are not a goal , they are optional.

Areann.1304:

Tl:dr:I dislike legendaries because they are a symbol of wealth instead of player skill/determination. But getting a legendary is the only goal left in the game.

Please define “player skill” for me. I know some have bought legendary but the majority worked their kitten off to make one and that show their determination to have it.

NightyNight.1823:

Its just a skin , purely aesthetic.Who specified that they were supposed to be a symbol for ‘’doing remarkable and challenging things’’?

“…allowing you to really show off your accomplishments.”

From the video.

NightyNight.1823:

What I don’t understand is , what the kitten is it that you want?

I, personally, would just like some context as to why these weapons are Legendary.

Who did they belong to? Who made them? Why are they considered Legendary, and not just another sword?

This, to me, makes the difference between something being Legendary and something being Exotic.

Hell, I’d consider the named armours as Legendary (Rurik’s, Koss’), simply because they have history.

I am going for a legendary just because I like one of them. I really don’t give two hoots what people think of it or how they think I got it. I am doing it because I want to get one. It is probably going to take me another year to get it done but that’s okay.

critickitten.1498:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MdA4MlrF5mA

I love how both true to the design and how ironic the video is. While true, you do scour all over Tyria to craft the weapons (wv3, dungeons, dynamic events and crafting) and are indeed the top tier or pinnacle of that specific weapon class by their design, even though you may find that Volcanus is superior to Sunrise.

The second part, I have a beef with. The weapons are a blend of art and effects that can change your character that can change the way your character looks; footprints, impressive slash effects and change projectiles to display your accomplishments. Well, that’s great, but you missed a few that seem to have none of the above or are inferior to even exotic weapons with effects. The designs may be gorgeous, but if you’re going to advertise them as legendary, make them so. Not to mention every legendary in the video has roughly all of the above.

I did change a word in there, which is “show off”. I don’t know many players who go around swinging their weapons unless asked, and I’ve certainly haven’t shoved Meteorlogicus in another player’s face going “LOOK WHAT I FINISHED THIS MORNING!! WOOOO!”. Please don’t take that as resentment for the lack of enhancements, I went in making it, knowing that it was lacking the effects, but it was the one legendary I set my eyes on from the start…it just looks so pretty.

“…allowing you to really show off your accomplishments.”
And thats exacly what it is.No one said they would be impresive.Or what ever you think its impresive.
Personal oppinions and your personal idea of a legendary is quite redundant.Thats what it is .If you’re dissapointed , no one’s forcing you to make them.Its entirely up to you and completly optional.

100% completely agree with op.

You having a legendary shows only 2 things, either you are wealthy or you love to grind yourself to death.

Having up to 3 legendaries simply shows you know how to manipulate the market or spend money on gems.

How are those things anything RESEMBLING something legendary. It’s a travesty the state of legendaries as of now. Then you have people on the forums complaining how hard it is to get one and those are exactly people who are trying to farm their kitten off but still feeling way too far from the goal, why? Because they are doing it the legit way, and then you have people saying “it’s supposed to be a goal you achieve after a long time” whilst ignoring there are literally tons of people with multiple legendaries already.

There is no skill involved in getting one, it’s either real money or some kitten fine trading skills. If anet deems that to be legendary then they are seriously delusional and lie to themselves constantly(watch the video posted above).

And on that note, anet really hates if people make karma into money as we’ve seen, but considering something that needs 1 million karma and bunch of stuff you cannot buy, why is it that you can still buy the end product all that went into? It is practically turning karma into money.

It’s just laughable how they are in denial over the whole situation with legendariaes and if they really end up leaving the situation as is, then it just shows how pathetic the company is. Literally having Fractal skins is even more impressive than a legendary weapon? Why? Because you KNOW the owners of them HAD to work for them. Now there is also the luck (RNG) factor to them, which is stupid, but still at least you can confirm there’s some dedication there.

I really like this game overall, but constantly outright lying and misguiding your hardcore players is absolutely immoral and pathetic. The more patches we get the more bad the situation seems to go. I want Anet to kitten the situation and just outright tell us the truth what they want to do with the game, but, alas, I don’t belive that will ever happen. Money is good, money is awesome, we want more money!!! You are legendary if you give us more money or show how awesome you are at flipping whee!!!

NightyNight.1823:

“…allowing you to really show off your accomplishments.”

And that’s exactly what it is.No one said they would be impressive.Or what ever you think its impressive.

What does it show you’ve accomplished, exactly?

That you’re awesome at working the TP?
The you can do the WvW jumping puzzle over and over?
That you can do the same thing over and over until you’ve got enough resource?

NightyNight.1823:

Personal opinions and your personal idea of a legendary is quite redundant.Thats what it is .If you’re disappointed , no one’s forcing you to make them.Its entirely up to you and completely optional.

You’re the one that asked ‘what the kitten I want’. I obliged with an answer.

As it is, ANet are the ones that called them Legendary weapons. They’re the ones that set up the expectation. If they’d been called something else, then I, like a few others, wouldn’t have had the expectation that they’d have some sort of lore surrounding them.

The process could have also involved a lot more of the game: completing your story, doing the mini-dungeons, doing the dungeons, searching the far reaches for rare materials.

Instead it devolved into a resource grind.

As for personal opinions being redundant, why do we have a Suggestions forum? I mean, that’s where people convey their personal opinions aimed at improving the game.

NightyNight.1823:

“…allowing you to really show off your accomplishments.”
And thats exacly what it is.No one said they would be impresive.Or what ever you think its impresive.
Personal oppinions and your personal idea of a legendary is quite redundant.Thats what it is .If you’re dissapointed , no one’s forcing you to make them.Its entirely up to you and completly optional.

….I could be mistaken and I apologize if this seems insulting, but I think you’re using words that you don’t quite understand the meaning of.

“Redundant” = No longer needed or useful; superfluous.

My opinion is not “redundant” because it clearly differs from the way that Legendaries exist in the game, and clearly matches the intended design as expressed by the developers themselves. My opinion being expressed here would only be “redundant” if the game’s format for obtaining Legendaries matched my own opinion.

They did not state that Legendaries were just some expensive crafting items, they stated that Legendaries are unique articles that are meant to show off your accomplishments and what you’ve been doing in GW2.

If you can explain to me how buying a Legendary off of the Trading Post (or buying the supplies to forge it yourself) are indicative of all of your personal in-game accomplishments, I’ll happily cede this point. But since you cannot do that, let’s not bat this back and forth as if it’s really an opinion. It’s not. The developers were VERY clear what they wanted Legendaries to be, and that’s not in line with what they are right now.

And it’s perfectly fine for disappointed players to say “Hey, it’s okay, you just made a bad decision. Everyone does it, we’re all human. Now let’s sit down together and fix this thing”. I really grow tired of people who say “it’s optional so it’s okay that it’s not well designed” because it demonstrates a lack of understanding. Bad game design is not excused by whether or not it’s mandatory….and it is bad game design, because this is meant to be a zero-grind game as the devs have repeatedly emphasized.

So let’s stop this sillyness about how “it’s optional” and “the devs didn’t say this”, and get right down to the meat of the situation. The devs said they wanted X, but Legendaries are clearly Y instead. Let’s try to help the developers get back to X. It’s not bad to question a game and point out its flaws, that’s how the devs can create the optimal experience based on the game they promised their players.

They did not state that Legendaries were just some expensive crafting items, they stated that Legendaries are unique articles that are meant to show off your accomplishments and what you’ve been doing in GW2.

That includes :

That you’re awesome at working the TP?
The you can do the WvW jumping puzzle over and over?
That you can do the same thing over and over until you’ve got enough resource?

Online games are build around grind.If you don’t like grind don’t play online games.
In the end no one promised you nothing.

NightyNight.1823:

Online games are build around grind.If you don’t like grind don’t play online games.
In the end no one promised you nothing.

A grind isn’t the issue. I’ve completed the Sphere Grid from FFX. I really don’t mind a grind.

It’s the grind is so one-sided that the main focus is gaining Gold, Karma and Skillpoints. That doesn’t make for exciting game-play, in my eyes.

I’d much prefer it if the Legendary weapons needed you to do everything in game:

• Get every Dungeon Gift
• Complete every Event
• Complete every Jumping Puzzle
• Complete every Mini-Dungeon
• Complete your Storyline
• Get a bunch of Achievements (Survivor, Emergency Response Hero, Dungeon Master ect)
• Max out every Crafting Profession
• Add a book / achievement track that records when you complete a unique event, and have a requirement that you need to complete every event in the game.

Add more Achievement requirements, reduce the Resource Grind a bit to compensate, and then add story parts to it to explain the lore behind it along the journey.

Sure, it’s not mandatory, but mediocrity is a terrible fate. The process of creating a Legendary could be so much more.

NightyNight.1823:

That includes :

That you’re awesome at working the TP?
The you can do the WvW jumping puzzle over and over?
That you can do the same thing over and over until you’ve got enough resource?

Online games are build around grind.If you don’t like grind don’t play online games.
In the end no one promised you nothing.

Hm, that would be a good argument, except that the developers of this game disagree with you.

Here’s what they said before the game’s release:

http://venturebeat.com/2012/05/21/guild-wars-2-interview-monetization/#s:guildwars2-16

Here’s what we believe: If someone wants to play for a thousand hours to get an item that is so rare that other players can’t realistically acquire it, that rare item should be differentiated by its visual appearance and rarity alone, not by being more powerful than everything else in the game. Otherwise, your MMO becomes all about grinding to get the best gear. We don’t make grindy games – we leave the grind to other MMOs.

http://www.arena.net/blog/is-it-fun-colin-johanson-on-how-arenanet-measures-success

The rarest items in the game are not more powerful than other items, so you don’t need them to be the best. The rarest items have unique looks to help your character feel that sense of accomplishment, but it’s not required to play the game. We don’t need to make mandatory gear treadmills, we make all of it optional, so those who find it fun to chase this prestigious gear can do so, but those who don’t are just as powerful and get to have fun too.

Interesting, because Legendaries are Best-In-Slot and the developers have confirmed that they always will be, so it sure sounds to me like the rarest items in the game are also the best by far.

And here’s what they said after the release of Lost Shores:

http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/13tuac/im_the_studio_design_director_on_guild_wars_2_ama/

We do intent to focus on horizontal but we will have vertical progression moving forward with the focus on zero grind and a very low power curve.

And I’ll note that all three of these posts state the obvious: the devs promised no grind. There is clearly grind in this game.

Face it, you’re reiterating the same tired arguments that many people on these forums have long dismissed….with quotes from the developers themselves, no less. You can’t argue “grind is okay” when the devs admit that it’s not. You can’t argue “it’s optional” when it’s obviously not going to be optional in some locations of the game (and, I suspect after these upcoming patches, it will be even more required than ever as it’s very likely the old dungeons will be retooled to utilize the Agony system, as will all dungeons moving forward).

You’re going to have to try much, much harder if you intend to convince anyone here that it’s a-okay for developers to promise something and then not deliver on it. In any other game that has done such a thing, players have rightfully complained about it. GW2 is a great game, but it doesn’t deliver on its promises, and it’s time to have a real dialogue with the devs so we can fix that.

The grind to my Dreamer bow is….wait for it…legend(ary).

I grinded my kitten off to make my Kudzu. No, i didn’t buy gems, i just played the game and acquired the mats. Those who seem to think a legendary means you are skilled or have bought em with RL cash are idiots. By now everyone should know that to make a legendary, it requires 2 things, time and more time. That’s all it takes. About the most skill required if being able to do WvW jump puzzles. And to those who think most people bought their legendaries, you really think people are stupid enough to blow 2k+ RL cash for some pixels in a game? Not sure who is dumber, the people who believe that or the people who actually do spend RL cash on em….leaning towards the latter. Granted i’m sure a fair share did use “exploits” to get their legendary but don’t make a blanket statement about people who own legendaries in general. Alot did earn em by determination and prolly alittle or alot of luck.

Now hold your horses.I’m only trying to explain how reality works.You can dress it up any way you want , the truth is , no matter how much they tried to minimise it , guild wars 2 is just another grind fest. Just like every other mmo out there.Thats something that will never change in an online game.Grind is the core of every MMO .That doesn’t make it okay , its just a reality.You might aswell just live whit it. Or don’t ,no one’s forcing you to play online games.
Ohh, and if you don’t like grind , don’t do it.Again ,its optional.
ALSO
The only thing they promised was no grind for better gear.Only grind for estetics .As in legendary estetic.
There , problem solved.

NightyNight.1823:

Now hold your horses.I’m only here to explain how reality works.You can dress it up any way you want , the truth is , no matter how much they tried to minimise it , guild wars 2 is just another grind fest. Just like every other mmo out there.Thats something that will never change in an online game.Grind is the core of every MMO .That doesn’t make it okay , its just a reality.You might aswell just live whit it. Or don’t ,no one’s forcing you to play online games.
Ohh, and if you don’t like grind , don’t do it.Again ,its optional.
ALSO
The only thing they promised was no grind for better gear.Only grind for estetics .As in legendary estetic.
There , problem solved.

That is not a good argument in favor of keeping things as they are.

That’s “eh, grind can’t be helped, so why bother trying”. Which, as we’ve established, is not only a bad argument (as there are plenty of good ways to decrease the grind, as people have suggested), it’s 100% against the mentality that the devs have said they’re seeking to create in this game.

I don’t disagree that a goal of “no grind” is exceedingly difficult. It’s far harder to achieve than vertical progression, for sure, which is essentially the lazy way to build a game: just make new stuff have bigger numbers, and you’re done. But the idea of “no grind” is not impossible and in fact has already been achieved before. GW1 managed it and yet have kept people playing since 2005, with the only actual grinds being true cosmetics. And when I say true cosmetics, I mean “armors that cost several thousand gold in trade, but were equal in power to armor sets costing a mere 5 gold that could be purchased in an ordinary vendor shop”. GW2, on the other hand, has promised that the game’s future will include more vertical progression, and Legendaries have been promised to remain Best-In-Slot for good. Which makes them more than mere cosmetics….they’re protection against all of the future grind that the devs have stated they’re in favor of. That makes Legendaries more than simply cosmetics because they’re guaranteed to be the best items in the game at all times. Which, in turn, means that if the dev team wishes to promise a “no grind” game, then they need to ensure that power is not grinded for. And right now? There’s no way to argue that Ascended and Legendary gear are not grinded for.

Legendary is just an estetic.At the moment its just as strong as an exotic.In the future it will be just as strong as the next tier.And even if they were to be slighly stronger the difference will be too small to be relevant.So you don’t have to worry that people who grind more than you are stronger.
And that should be the end of the legendary topic.

I have 3 Legendaries and I’m proud of my accomplishments. I don’t care what people call me rmt or liar. In the end I laugh at them and running around them to show off my legendaries skills

Whats with this mindset? Legendary is the final goal… end game… I plan to craft a legendary, in fact, I can afford to craft twilight but i’m choosing not to? Why? because I don’t feel the need to do it as soon as possible. I find other contents in the game whether its PvE or WvW or PvP still rather satisfying, whether its repeating previously explored content or finding new things.

Flett.1296:

A 1000 hours. You win the game, it’s over. They did’nt design the game for people to basically live in it. Get a job or two, try seeing real life daylight. Maybe a girl friend. But really if you have played the game for more then 41+ days logged in game. Really you beat the game lol.

This made me laugh because it’s true LOL

I have a job, a husband and we are boardmembers of several organizations. Life is busy so we don’t sleep much and our working hours only partially overlap. We share the account, and it’s almost our only downtime.

Justification enough for my gaming hours?

All I can say is fix the darn silver doubloons. You can craft gold doubloons but not silver ?
Furthermore, long time players will have multiple characters at 80 etc but have only ever found 3 or 4 silver doubloons. Tried farming for them but magic find is a lie.
(4 hours with gear, food, and buffs and not even a single rare. After, I put my normal gears on with no buffs or food , ran a fractal and got 5 rares, 3 exotics and a pink ring from the end chest. I beg of you, never ever buy magic find crap ever again and don’t make my same mistake. )

Lodestones are the same, since they put in the anti botting algorithm, there’s no legit way to get these items in those kinds of quantities.
Yeah yeah, insert your " I farmed for 30 minutes and got 10 " statement, good for you, now bugger off back to whatever hole you crawled out of. If you really did get that many doubloons in 30 minutes you were hacking, plain and simple.

When I see players with legendaries nowadays, ( especially players with juggernauts ) I tell them straight out they’re either market scammers or bots, due to the drop rates of these items . Way to fund the gold sellers Anet, way to go. Really makes me wonder if the player base has any influence in the games’ evolution at all.

I dislike legendaries because they are a symbol of wealth instead of player skill/determination

All I needed to read to know that you don’t know what you’re talking about. In what alternate universe is 100% world completion, collecting dungeon tokens, badges of honors and fine materials a sign of wealth?

Most bought it.

So most spend 1000-2000 rl dollars to get an ingame weapon? And you can proof this how?

NightyNight.1823:

Legendary is just an estetic.At the moment its just as strong as an exotic.In the future it will be just as strong as the next tier.And even if they were to be slighly stronger the difference will be too small to be relevant.So you don’t have to worry that people who grind more than you are stronger.
And that should be the end of the legendary topic.

We’ve already established that Legendaries are far more than an “aesthetic” (the word you’re trying to spell) item. I won’t continue to argue against circular logic that has already been disproven by the devs’ own words. Find a better argument, or else please allow those of us who have grievances to bring them up in peace. We don’t need people coming in here and arguing the same tired, stale, beaten-to-death arguments about how we just want an easy mode for Legendaries (we don’t), how it’s totally optional (which is only true if no extra gear comes out after the Ascended stuff comes out, and we know that won’t be true), and how every MMORPG has grind so it’s okay (it’s not, especially when the devs promised us a no-forced-grind game and already made a no-forced-grind game in the past). We have already disproved and shot down these arguments in every single thread this topic has come up. If you can’t present something other than that, please stay out of the conversation so that we can have a healthy dialogue with the developers without disruption.

And for the record, the devs have stated they want to add more Legendaries, so Legendary armor isn’t outside the realm of possibility. And I’ve already calculated in the past that a full set of Ascended gear with a Berserker lean yields 23% more damage than a full set of Exotic gear with a Berserker lean, so you can’t argue the case that a power increase isn’t significant because that’s a lie, too. And it’ll only get worse if they decide to violate their other recent promise not to introduce more tiers of gear (which I suspect they’ll have to break, if they intend to move forward with vertical progression as they’ve said they do).

sasoriza.5967:

I dislike legendaries because they are a symbol of wealth instead of player skill/determination

All I needed to read to know that you don’t know what you’re talking about. In what alternate universe is 100% world completion, collecting dungeon tokens, badges of honors and fine materials a sign of wealth?

Let me flip that question back on you for a moment.

Which of those tasks are a test of your skill and “proof of your accomplishments”? I’ll answer that for you: the dungeon tokens are the only one on that list that shows genuine effort on your part.

100% world completion? Can be done without any degree of skill. Badges of honor? You only have to tag targets in WvW with enough damage to receive credit for their eventual death when fighting in large zergs, so it’s mostly a matter of properly placed AoE attacks and time (and I know this because I’ve played enough WvW that I’ve often received credit for “killing” targets that I was nowhere near any more, purely because I had tagged them earlier with my ranger’s Barrage). Fine materials? All buyable from the TP if you’re lazy, and farming them is not a skill test either.

Oh, and then of course there’s the deathblow to your argument: You can skip ALL of that “work” and just buy a Legendary off of the Trading Post, thus committing absolutely no effort on your own part to obtaining it. Something which the devs have stated is working correctly and is not, in fact, an unintentional design mistake.

So yes, it’s perfectly fair to assert that, for some people out there, Legendaries are more a symbol of their wealth than their determination.

And when dungeons are so easy you can get carried so easily.

The gift of mastery and the dungeon tokens are not a challenge. Getting enough mats for the gift of fortune and getting the precursor are the bottlenecks. Also, you don’t need to buy gems to get thousands of gold, the trading post is all people need. I spend as little time as I can while others follow it for hours, us spreadsheets and gw2spidey. I spent hours in dungeons which clearly is not as productive.

Areann.1304:

I have a job, a husband and we are boardmembers of several organizations. Life is busy so we don’t sleep much and our working hours only partially overlap. We share the account, and it’s almost our only downtime.

You share an account and have 1000 hours clocked, this game has been out for 141 days. That means you’ve spent about 1/6 of your life in-game since it came out. I hardly think your life is as busy as you claim.

My advice? Stop bothering about how other people got the items, it doesn’t affect you.

You can make a legendary with 1000gold with ease.
Around the price for all mats for sunrise i’ve done, now maybe a bit more but still.
I’m pretty confident that if you play the game you can get 1g/hour.
Much more if you farm.
But yeah.

Which of those tasks are a test of your skill and “proof of your accomplishments”?

I was referring to the determination part actually.
Interesting sidenote however: with your argumentation, no part of gw2 requires skill since forging a legendary pretty much covers the entire gameplay…

You can skip ALL of that “work” and just buy a Legendary off of the Trading Post, thus committing absolutely no effort on your own part to obtaining it.

Sorry I forgot that as soon as something can be done, it ultimately must have been done by everybody.

@critickitten:Spot on, and a good example of the “promise and intention” of Guild Wars 2 and how it differs to what we got. I’m firmly looking at the publishers on this one, I strongly suspect that their input into this game is absolutely what is keeping it from being INSANELY AMAZING in EVERY aspect, as opposed to just,
“well it’s good value for 60 bucks if you ignore PVE”

Nightynight:

…allowing you to really show off your accomplishments.”
And thats exacly what it is.No one said they would be impresive.Or what ever you think its impresive.
Personal oppinions and your personal idea of a legendary is quite redundant.Thats what it is .If you’re dissapointed , no one’s forcing you to make them.Its entirely up to you and completly optional

Ok so, what do I do now? I don’t want any legendary cos it’s garbage and has no prestige value and most are terribly designed. Nor do I feel I should reward that lazy rubbish design by spending cash on this game. What do i do then? Stop playing?

Because that’s the vapid and downright stupid response that seems to be the “go to” around here, if a game has you questioning WHAT you should do to keep you playing it’s clearly boring and lacking in an aspect that would normally keep you interested, and the answer to that is to “don’t play it then” well… Something has gone horribly wrong. For a start we need more pvp types to appeal to players of all ranges, there’s no vs cpu which would give casual players a way to have some fun in a REPEATABLE way and help them try out some stuff, heck there’s no group join in normal pvp anyways, and thus it pigeonholes itself into one group of players, it’s lazily built.
PVE pretty much ends when you can’t work towards something AND by this I don’t mean vertical progression and better numbers, I mean something that looks superior even if it’s not… This games horizontal progression actually looks awkward… it’s supposed to be it’s MAIN SELLING FACTOR!

But that’s off on a different tangent a lil, tell me now… What SHOULD I do aside from “stop playing the game hurhurhur” to keep myself entertained if I don’t like pvp that much and would prefer pve, assuming we both understand that the answer aforementioned is NOT valid and unacceptable?

If your answer is grind, clearly it doesn’t take a genius to tell you SOMETHING IS WRONG!

Online games are build around grind.If you don’t like grind don’t play online games.
In the end no one promised you nothing.

Inadvertently correct, we weren’t promised nothing, we were promised something specific and they delivered something else. You actually have no idea what the heck you’re talking about do you? wait… lets find out

Now hold your horses.I’m only trying to explain how reality works.You can dress it up any way you want , the truth is , no matter how much they tried to minimise it , guild wars 2 is just another grind fest. Just like every other mmo out there.Thats something that will never change in an online game.Grind is the core of every MMO .That doesn’t make it okay , its just a reality.You might aswell just live whit it. Or don’t ,no one’s forcing you to play online games.
Ohh, and if you don’t like grind , don’t do it.Again ,its optional.
ALSO
The only thing they promised was no grind for better gear.Only grind for estetics .As in legendary estetic.
There , problem solved.

http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/250x250/33408023.jpg

Nothing more to say really. Applying “reality” to a game mechanic is just ridiculous, it’s an apples and oranges statement.

Legendary is just an estetic.At the moment its just as strong as an exotic.In the future it will be just as strong as the next tier.And even if they were to be slighly stronger the difference will be too small to be relevant.So you don’t have to worry that people who grind more than you are stronger.
And that should be the end of the legendary topic.

See picture above. Yes… because your points clearly put to rest any issues… or ya know… maybe you should just stay out of a subject you’ve no clue about and are contributing nothing towards?

by critickitten:

Oh, and then of course there’s the deathblow to your argument: You can skip ALL of that “work” and just buy a Legendary off of the Trading Post, thus committing absolutely no effort on your own part to obtaining it. Something which the devs have stated is working correctly and is not, in fact, an unintentional design mistake.
So yes, it’s perfectly fair to assert that, for some people out there, Legendaries are more a symbol of their wealth than their determination.

I am truly sorry that you have to keep repeating this ad tedium, it’s actually depressing that something SO obvious needs to be reiterated so much.

Evalia.7103:

You can make a legendary with 1000gold with ease.
Around the price for all mats for sunrise i’ve done, now maybe a bit more but still.
I’m pretty confident that if you play the game you can get 1g/hour.
Much more if you farm.
But yeah.

I think it’s not easy making 1000g. :p

At the end of the day, you can purchase a legendary weapon directly from the trading post.

You really don’t have to show you’re good at the game to acquire one either.

The only difficult thing is the lodestones and precursor/clovers if you have bad luck. I average 3 charged lodestones as well as 10g per day just from dungeons alone.

If I chose to I could get sunrise within a month, but I’m not sure if I want it at this point. Everyday I see someone new with a legendary, hell I was recently in a dungeon with someone who had 4.

Outside of karma and the badges which are incredibly easy to gain, especially with the changes arenanet has made over the past months, all you need to reliably make a legendary is gold.

I mean you even have to buy 100 of an item for 1g each. If I get a Sunrise, it’s only because it looks good, and that’s the only reason.

I honestly won’t feel like I accomplished anything considering how easy it is to make.

critickitten.1498:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MdA4MlrF5mA

Dunno about you, but the way he goes on about them, it doesn’t sound to me like they’re just meant to be “pretty skins” and nothing more.

The entire video was about how special they look. What isn’t in that video is a part describing how massively powerful they are.

Grunties.6841:

Agree with OP. There is absolutely no status I attach to anyone with a legendary because of all of the reasons stated. Most bought it. Those that earned it are tainted by the majority of folks who bought it. I’d be mad if I earned mine and people could just buy it.

The fact you use the word ‘tainted’ shows you have a weird idea of what obtaining one of these by doing it the hard way should be about: it should be about the satisfaction of doing it, if someone is upset because the kitten value has crashed then I feel sad for them.

And if I ever got one it wouldn’t matter in the slightest what you thought of me, I play for ME, not you!

I don’t get how anyone can claim that the majority of people bought their legendary when they still have to be made to be bought in the first place. I really doubt most of the people who went through the effort of making a legendary in the first place did it just to sell it on the AH, there are much better ways of making money.

edit: Heck, I’d say that the very fact that the person who makes the legendary has to consciously decide they want to sell it kind of invalidates the idea that someone buying it “taints” the experience of everyone else. Becoming a max level crafter isn’t ruined by someone buying crafted items on the trading post.

I won’t continue to argue against circular logic that has already been disproven by the devs’ own words.

The only thing I could possibly say to that ,Learn how to read ? You’ve clearly misinterpreted what they’ve actually said.

Ok so, what do I do now? I don’t want any legendary cos it’s garbage and has no prestige value and most are terribly designed. Nor do I feel I should reward that lazy rubbish design by spending cash on this game. What do i do then? Stop playing?
Because that’s the vapid and downright stupid response that seems to be the “go to” around here, if a game has you questioning WHAT you should do to keep you playing it’s clearly boring and lacking in an aspect that would normally keep you interested, and the answer to that is to “don’t play it then” well…

Ye because the game is all about legendaries.If you don’t create your own legendary ,you might aswel just quit!Whats the point , right?
Sorry but thats the Only thing thats stupid here.
What part of optional don’t you understand?
Who says that you HAVE to go for a legendary? Just because its there? Whose forcing you to do it?Does it improve your gameplay? No, it doesn’t. Its just a freakin skin.Same stats as an exotic.

See picture above. Yes… because your points clearly put to rest any issues… or ya know… maybe you should just stay out of a subject you’ve no clue about and are contributing nothing towards?

Ohh noooo ! I spelled wrong the word aesthetic.That totaly destroyed my argument !

The entire video was about how special they look. What isn’t in that video is a part describing how massively powerful they are.

Checkmate.

TheDaiBish.9735:

NightyNight.1823:

Online games are build around grind.If you don’t like grind don’t play online games.
In the end no one promised you nothing.

A grind isn’t the issue. I’ve completed the Sphere Grid from FFX. I really don’t mind a grind.

It’s the grind is so one-sided that the main focus is gaining Gold, Karma and Skillpoints. That doesn’t make for exciting game-play, in my eyes.

I’d much prefer it if the Legendary weapons needed you to do everything in game:

• Get every Dungeon Gift
• Complete every Event
• Complete every Jumping Puzzle
• Complete every Mini-Dungeon
• Complete your Storyline
• Get a bunch of Achievements (Survivor, Emergency Response Hero, Dungeon Master ect)
• Max out every Crafting Profession
• Add a book / achievement track that records when you complete a unique event, and have a requirement that you need to complete every event in the game.

Add more Achievement requirements, reduce the Resource Grind a bit to compensate, and then add story parts to it to explain the lore behind it along the journey.

Sure, it’s not mandatory, but mediocrity is a terrible fate. The process of creating a Legendary could be so much more.

I would like to see some combinations of the above. Your ideas are interesting and I think that having you have to accomplish more in the world is a good idea. I would also like to keep the resource ways to get certain Gifts.

Take maybe the Gift of Metal. Have two ways to get the GoM. One that is out in the world with achievements that would coincide with such a gift and the other would be the current way allowing people to use materials. That way a person could choose how to get the item needed.