Guild Wars 2

NightyNight.1823:

Legendary is just an estetic.At the moment its just as strong as an exotic.In the future it will be just as strong as the next tier.And even if they were to be slighly stronger the difference will be too small to be relevant.So you don’t have to worry that people who grind more than you are stronger.
And that should be the end of the legendary topic.

OK, let’s put it another way.

Why can’t the process be improved?

Why do we have to settle for what amounts to ‘gather all of this and chuck it in the Forge?’ when the process could be so much more?

TheDaiBish.9735:

NightyNight.1823:

Legendary is just an estetic.At the moment its just as strong as an exotic.In the future it will be just as strong as the next tier.And even if they were to be slighly stronger the difference will be too small to be relevant.So you don’t have to worry that people who grind more than you are stronger.
And that should be the end of the legendary topic.

OK, let’s put it another way.

Why can’t the process be improved?

Why do we have to settle for what amounts to ‘gather all of this and chuck it in the Forge?’ when the process could be so much more?

Sure.
I’m all in for making it more fun and all that.Just don’t say you’ve been promised something and got something else because thats just not true.

Guys this is endless and most don’t get the point. legendaryis not mandatory. nobody is gonna tell you that you suck cause you don’t have one.
nobody is gonna tell you that you cannot do x coause you dont have a legendary.
if someone does he’s the jerk not you

In a THAT big game you can do preety much everything, because the ultimate aim of an mmo is to simultae real life, not in a photographic way, but thats it.
the ultimate aim of a company doing an mmo is to catch all the pool of players even, especially, those who never played an mmo.

you think that beginner player can stand 1000h of grind? ofcourse not.
So as they promised everyone is doing everything, ther is no such gear score or a real vertical grind. so they didn’t lie.

But they don’t want only newcomer’s money, they allso want to attract the elite hc gamer.
and if you say nobody likes grinding, then ask to all those milions of d3 folks!!

the same for ascended:
are they hard to get? yes
are they madatory to have fun? no
are they designed to casual players, ex hc gamers with life work kids an 3 ex-wife?no!!no! and again no!!

those are for the 13 years old kids, whith nothing more to do in their lifes, and kindly accept to spend countess hour in the grindfest!
Or for those who are trade skilled, probably even for those who have no rush.
wake up people the rush for first legendary has already winners and loosers!!

you say people are buying mats from the TP by flipping or whatsoever? and why you complain about that? ever tried playing TP? if it fells beter we can say that gw2 as a pve components, a spvp, a world pvp and a kittien “marketshark” one!
Fipping is not hacking your account and stealing your stuff, is not an exploit and is not effortless unles you are a pro broker and still have a lot of time for that.

then you say people is buying that with 2k$ of gems? you know what? i really hope so!!!! let the RL rich people feed Anet so, hopefully, they wont need to take money from us..( i admit this is unlikely, they’ll take their 2k$ AND your single dollar if they can but… who cares actually??).

they exploited? honestly i don’t even care about that, i think that th only one lossing from exploit is anet, not us, at worst you didn’t get that shinnies as they did but you had no harm.
And IMHO more precursors around mean less rocketing prices for us, but i don’t really care thats just IMHO.

Said that:
Is anet fault if allso trees in this game wants a legendary, tinks will have a legendary, consider legendary a right and therfore demand and complain?FOR SURE.

If you put some badges in the start page, which are world completion, orders initiation and, and one is a kitten legendary then every sigle folks in the game, from day one think he will have one cause is the real endgame, it must be if is shown that way right?
and thats quite intentional imho since for them is no cost someone gtting a legendary but some cpu cycles for the particles effects, but a extremely good resource sink when people, as first step buy that blodstone shard for 200sp or any otherwise useless legendary mat. and trust me there are countless.

before you start insulting me:
-i don’t have a legendary nor a precursor, althoug with no rush i’ll definetly have one. i hope with no grind at all but wvw and dungeon which is no grind for me.
-i don’t play TP, i tried but is hard, and since is hard is really intriquing me!
-i’m probably too stupid for exploiting, on average i get to know one a month after it’s been patched lol!!!

is like real life if you can’t effort a mercedes, have good journey with your daewoo, have fun while travelling, try to save and optimize which can be fun.
on difference:
while in your life to get money you have to work and mostly not have fun or just a little, here you can have fun while gettin a little money.

cheers folks!

Ehra.5240:

I don’t get how anyone can claim that the majority of people bought their legendary when they still have to be made to be bought in the first place. I really doubt most of the people who went through the effort of making a legendary in the first place did it just to sell it on the AH, there are much better ways of making money.

edit: Heck, I’d say that the very fact that the person who makes the legendary has to consciously decide they want to sell it kind of invalidates the idea that someone buying it “taints” the experience of everyone else. Becoming a max level crafter isn’t ruined by someone buying crafted items on the trading post.

My friend is crafting sunrise just to sell it on the trading post, although he does already have twilight, lol.

NightyNight.1823:

The only thing I could possibly say to that ,Learn how to read ? You’ve clearly misinterpreted what they’ve actually said.

Really?

We don’t make grindy games – we leave the grind to other MMOs.

We don’t need to make mandatory gear treadmills, we make all of it optional, so those who find it fun to chase this prestigious gear can do so, but those who don’t are just as powerful and get to have fun too.

We do intent to focus on horizontal but we will have vertical progression moving forward with the focus on zero grind and a very low power curve.

Nope, pretty sure I can read just fine.

Ye because the game is all about legendaries.If you don’t create your own legendary ,you might aswel just quit!Whats the point , right?
Sorry but thats the Only thing thats stupid here.
What part of optional don’t you understand?
Who says that you HAVE to go for a legendary? Just because its there? Whose forcing you to do it?Does it improve your gameplay? No, it doesn’t. Its just a freakin skin.Same stats as an exotic.

You mean “same stats as an Ascended”, because its stats will raise once Ascended items come out.

Oh, and then when the level cap raises in the expansion that’s likely to release in 2013 at some point, the stats will go up on Legendaries again.

And then again when the next expansion or tier of equipment comes out. And then again.

Honestly, what part of “anti-grind protection” are you not understanding?

Legendaries are not purely aesthetic items. The developers have outright stated that Legendaries will always be Best-In-Slot, which makes them the very best items in the game. Which means you cannot cling to this argument. But obviously you’re not convinced, most likely because you don’t actually grasp the problem yet.

I’m going to explain this as simply as I can, and I hope that this will get the point across.

Suppose we have two sets of gear, A and B, with equal stats. A requires a lot more grind to get than B (let’s pretend it’s 100 hours of grinding vs only 20), so naturally, most people will want to just save time and grab B.

But now we introduce a new gear set, C, that is significantly stronger than B, and we buff A. C, of course, takes a lot more grinding to fully deck your character out in, so let’s say it’s about 35 hours instead. So now if you had B, you’re now underpowered and will need to grind to get C (thus raising your overall time spent grinding gear up to 55 hours). Well, it was still a lot less time to get B and C, right, so you still feel validated.

But then, expansion comes out. Level cap is now 85, and there’s more gear to grind for. Let’s say it’s 50 hours this time to have a full set of gear set D. Meanwhile, the guys who had A get another automatic power boost. So to reach the pinnacle and get D, you’ve now invested 105 hours in total grinding through all of the gear tiers….so you’ve now spent more time running uphill on this vertical progression system than you would have spent if you’d just invested your time more wisely and gone for the gear that never becomes obsolete.

And just wait until the next expansion, when set E comes out! Then you’ll feel really stupid for even wasting your time in all these other tiers, and by this point you may just quit out of frustration (as many people often do when placed on a never-ending treadmill for the best gear).

See why this is a problem now? You can’t claim that Legendaries are just aesthetic if they are always on par with the best items in the game, because their owners get free power increases for the life of the game. They become grind-proof simply for grinding once….or in the case of those who just buy their Legendary, not at all.

This sort of incredible power shouldn’t just be available to the highest bidder. That’s a bad way to handle things. Only those who demonstrate exceptional skill in the game should be obtaining that kind of permanency and that level of power….and that’s why I want to change Legendaries, in a nutshell.

Not because I can never get one as they currently are (in fact I’m inching closer to Kudzu every day), but because I think it’s a shame that we’re taking such amazing equipment and completely throwing its potential away.

Checkmate.

Er, a chess reference? Hate to inform you, but the chess game ended several posts ago when I dismissed every core argument you had, mate. The fact that you can’t even put forth your own arguments any more is proof positive that your argument was beaten long ago. There is no more chess game now, everyone’s already gone home hours ago, and the janitor needs you to lift your feet so he can sweep the floor under your table.

No one wants easier Legendaries. We want them to live up to the hype that the developers built placed onto them. And to that end, we’re offering a range of suggestions to help improve the game experience and make them even more elite and rare than they are right now, ensuring that people will be hunting these items down for years to come.

And all you’re doing is yelling back “IT’S FINE AS IT IS” and not actually listening to a word anyone’s saying, all because some people dare to ask for an improvement in the way this content is handled. No one here is demanding any unreasonable changes, we’re simply saying “the way you did this isn’t as good as how other MMOs do it, so let’s make some changes so that GW2 can be even better than those other games”. I really don’t understand why you’re being so stubborn about this, I had initially thought that we simply disagreed on how best to improve the game but now I’m thinking you just refuse to acknowledge that the game has any flaws at all. And that’s not good for the longevity of the game.

It’s okay to admit that GW2 isn’t perfect. We can’t improve the game if we’re not willing to admit when something doesn’t fit its intended goal.

I don’t mind them improving the process – I would prefer less grind and more interesting ways to get to the goal. I definitely don’t want them to make the process more ‘exclusive’, since they’ve said that legendaries are grind-proofing and will always be best in slot.

When it was just a skin, fine, make it as stupidly Nintendo hard as you want. When it actually makes a difference in the game that does not apply. Then it becomes something everyone could/should have.

If you’re upset because ‘too many people have legendaries’ (silly to tie your ego to that, but whatever), well, it was ANet’s misstep to give them unique functionality. Of course a ton more people are going to want them now.

I don’t care if someone bought their legendary or not.

If I earned it then I and my guildees know that and that’s all anyone should need.

Why do we need the approval of other people?

When I was in my 20s, I had a friend who’s grand parents were very wealthy and my friend always had a very nice, expensive new car.

I worked hard and built a career and and at 27 years old, was able to buy a very nice, brand new sports car (with all the options).

Unfortunately, the experience was completely ruined because everyone just assumed I had rich grand parents instead of earning it myself.

People would say “yeah, nice car, you must have awesome grand parents” or "that looks like the new model, but someone your age probably just bought a counterfeit car from China.

Eventually I just broke down and realized I was too young to have dreams and that achievements are over rated because most people just assume you cheat at everything.

So I crashed that car into an embankment, sold it for scrap and then went and bought a junky car like most of my friends had.

So glad I listened to them, they really knew what they were talking about.

Gilosean.3805:

I don’t mind them improving the process – I would prefer less grind and more interesting ways to get to the goal. I definitely don’t want them to make the process more ‘exclusive’, since they’ve said that legendaries are grind-proofing and will always be best in slot.

When it was just a skin, fine, make it as stupidly Nintendo hard as you want. When it actually makes a difference in the game that does not apply. Then it becomes something everyone could/should have.

If you’re upset because ‘too many people have legendaries’ (silly to tie your ego to that, but whatever), well, it was ANet’s misstep to give them unique functionality. Of course a ton more people are going to want them now.

Hrm, probably a fair point, actually. It’s the sort of problem that just wouldn’t exist if they hadn’t introduced Ascended in the first place, and hadn’t promised to raise the level cap. But that can’t be avoided now.

Even so, I still personally lean towards keeping them extremely difficult to access so that everyone is able to work towards them, but only some people will ever actually make the grade. If everyone has them, well….it flat out defeats the purpose of any other future gear in this game.

Mind, I agree with your sentiment, but I think that door swung closed in November. Now they’re stuck with what they’ve done, and they just have to figure out how to make it fair and still keep it exclusive. shrug

critickitten.1498:

Legendaries are not purely aesthetic items.

Yes they are. Their stats will be exactly the same as Ascended weapons when they release, which means the only reason to get a Legendary over an Ascended weapon is because of its aesthetic.

Arguing otherwise simply because getting one now will save you from a hypothetical “grind” that won’t even be a concern until over a year from now is really silly. And even when considering that, it still in no way makes them a must have. It still doesn’t give a gameplay advantage, it just means that the first level 85 exotic or whatever weapon that they get will be sold instead of equipped. So unfair, I know, but I think everyone without will manage.

Areann.1304:

Tl:dr:I dislike legendaries because they are a symbol of wealth instead of player skill/determination. But getting a legendary is the only goal left in the game.

You also managed to describe why most people hate the Commander title/map marker in that sentence. =D

Ehra.5240:

critickitten.1498:

Legendaries are not purely aesthetic items.

Yes they are. Their stats will be exactly the same as Ascended weapons when they release, which means the only reason to get a Legendary over an Ascended weapon is because of its aesthetic.

But if I get legendary now, I don’t need an Ascended weapon. It has nothing to do with the skin; Legendaries are clearly the best weapons.

And please don’t tell me to get a legendary, then. I wouldn’t mind having a legendary, but I don’t want it so badly that I’d grind for it. And it will take me a while to afford it (I can get 3-4sh gold an hour or two from AC exp, but if I play two hours a day I’d need 5ish months to get one that way). I don’t like to re-sell stuff on the trading post since I find that boring (even in WoW with Auctioneer I didn’t like re-selling things). So No legendary for me, at least not now.

People keep saying “just get an ascended when they come out if you don’t want a legendary”. What if an ascended costs too much to get, or takes hundreds of hours to get? What should I do? Well, I should have gotten a legendary, probably.

That’s the problem with the legendaries (in my opinion). They are valuable and, in a way, overpowered as well. Truth be told, though, I could’ve dealt with that – I don’t mind legendaries being powerful. I mind being told that I would not have to grind for the best weapon, though, and then having to grind (or spend a lot of time getting gold) to get the best weapon. I also mind such a valuable item being so available to the people who have the gold (whether they earned it or use RL cash), because I see too many people with legendaries. Weapons that good should not be that accessible, unless they are accessible in a way to all types of people (including people who don’t have time to grind, or don’t play TP), or they should truly be just a skin, like they were in GW1.

What gets me the most is ppl.saying it requires no skill, while it requires less skill than what anet outlined by no means does it require 0 skills. Unless ofcs you flip and buy it. For anyone that has recently purchased the game may seem impossible. from launch I worked on mine . Lodestones were cheap yellows dropped a lot and ectos were easily obtainable , lucky for me I acquired alot early using something called time management which is a “skill” if I didn’ I may not have it today. Dungeons had little or no tactics so we had to really slug them out . There were no easymode crafting guides. There was no jugs of karma or dungeon karma. Many aspects of it could be multi tasked just a little forward thinking could achieve this again a little bit of “skill”. People that had a legendary within two weeks of launch however did seem very suspicious. So yes aspects of legendaries were much cheaper bit you still needed skill for other aspects.

“Most people buy them” yes I’m sure kudzu will look great pirched infront of the tp all day what use will flippers have with leg’s nothing but more meat to flip. And if someone has the ability to flip up to 2k + gold that’s
Pretty legendary to me (I’m not one of them).

So please before you make claims about people having not even tryed to build a legendary think twice because a lot of us have worked kitten hard for them and not because we were worried about your opinions on them.

Kusiobache.7203:

Ehra.5240:

critickitten.1498:

Legendaries are not purely aesthetic items.

Yes they are. Their stats will be exactly the same as Ascended weapons when they release, which means the only reason to get a Legendary over an Ascended weapon is because of its aesthetic.

But if I get legendary now, I don’t need an Ascended weapon. It has nothing to do with the skin; Legendaries are clearly the best weapons.

They are tied for best weapon. If you want to go through the effort of getting a Legendary then you don’t ever have to worry about replacing it. If you don’t want to then you can get whatever else is the best weapon and not be at any disadvantage. If you don’t want to do THAT then why do you feel you deserve to have the best stuff? Eventually you have to ask yourself why you even want the item, because it was a reward for playing a game you enjoy or because you like seeing your digital numbers go up.

Anet already knows that the current method of acquiring Ascended gear isn’t satisfying for a large portion of the playerbase which is why they have told use they are working on other ways of earning them. In fact, today’s 2013 update had a part where they said Ascended gear and Infusions will be purchasable with the tokens that will be granted for completing achievements.

Booler.6598:

What gets me the most is ppl.saying it requires no skill, while it requires less skill than what anet outlined by no means does it require 0 skills. Unless ofcs you flip and buy it. For anyone that has recently purchased the game may seem impossible. from launch I worked on mine . Lodestones were cheap yellows dropped a lot and ectos were easily obtainable , lucky for me I acquired alot early using something called time management which is a “skill” if I didn’ I may not have it today. Dungeons had little or no tactics so we had to really slug them out . There were no easymode crafting guides. There was no jugs of karma or dungeon karma. Many aspects of it could be multi tasked just a little forward thinking could achieve this again a little bit of “skill”. People that had a legendary within two weeks of launch however did seem very suspicious. So yes aspects of legendaries were much cheaper bit you still needed skill for other aspects.

“Most people buy them” yes I’m sure kudzu will look great pirched infront of the tp all day what use will flippers have with leg’s nothing but more meat to flip. And if someone has the ability to flip up to 2k + gold that’s
Pretty legendary to me (I’m not one of them).

So please before you make claims about people having not even tryed to build a legendary think twice because a lot of us have worked kitten hard for them and not because we were worried about your opinions on them.

Okay, how many people do you think worked as hard as you for their legendary though? Probably quite a few, but out of everyone that has one, a significant percentage probably did not work that hard for theirs.

That aside, congrats to you for your hard work.

Ehra.5240:

Kusiobache.7203:

Ehra.5240:

critickitten.1498:

Legendaries are not purely aesthetic items.

Yes they are. Their stats will be exactly the same as Ascended weapons when they release, which means the only reason to get a Legendary over an Ascended weapon is because of its aesthetic.

But if I get legendary now, I don’t need an Ascended weapon. It has nothing to do with the skin; Legendaries are clearly the best weapons.

They are tied for best weapon. If you want to go through the effort of getting a Legendary then you don’t ever have to worry about replacing it. If you don’t want to then you can get whatever else is the best weapon and not be at any disadvantage. If you don’t want to do THAT then why do you feel you deserve to have the best stuff? Eventually you have to ask yourself why you even want the item, because it was a reward for playing a game you enjoy or because you like seeing your digital numbers go up.

The fact is, I just want to play a fair game. I don’t see the game as fair the way it is now, since if I don’t have a legendary I am at a disadvantage.

What if I’m playing this game 5 years? I’ll almost surely have the chance to get a legendary eventually: If I do, I save myself a lot of effort, but then I won’t have much do look forward to from expansions. I can do the new content, gain the new levels, but any equipment will be useless to me. If I don’t get a legendary, I’ll likely end up putting in more work to get higher level equipment with every expansion, which I don’t mind. I play the game so I have something to do. However, despite how much effort I put in, I will not have the best weapon (a legendary), unless I go out of my way to get one. Sure, I could do both, but that would make little sense.

The legendaries just don’t make sense the way they are implemented.

There’s also what booler said – the work he put in to get a legendary is different than the work people put in now. That just shows that the way the legendaries aren’t well-implemented and that their implementation wasn’t/isn’t fair.

All I’m saying – and I think the OP and critickitten are trying to say as well – is that the system is flawed. They could have taken more time to implement legendaries and made a better system. I know my complaining is useless – all I can do is live with the system as it is – but I don’t need people telling me it’s fair when it isn’t. There’s also the fact that the Devs said things like “no-grind” and then made a system that requires grinding. They shouldn’t have made statements and then not followed them.

Kusiobache.7203:

If I do, I save myself a lot of effort.

I think you’re vastly overestimating how difficult it is to get a single max level exotic weapon in this game. Ascended gear is in limbo since we currently don’t know enough about the future methods of acquiring them. But exotics are not hard to get and can be easily obtained, either through drops or by saving up enough gold to buy them, in a short enough time just by playing however you like playing. Especially since we’re talking about a single weapon.

The only “advantage” to having a legendary is that when you get that first exotic/ascended weapon after the level cap increase or whatever you can sell it rather than equip it. If you’re still playing the game after 5 years then you’ll have gotten so much money or had so many high end gear drop for you that it won’t matter.

And the problem with the “no grind” comments is that “grind” is really just a word people use to mean “I don’t like this.” Nothing that people actually enjoy doing is a grind, that’s fun. It’s only something people don’t like doing, and there isn’t anything that everyone enjoys. I’ve already had someone tell me that having to unlock waypoints is a grind. Legendaries are meant to be a big time and/or resource investment to obtain, whether that’s a “grind” or an “achievement” is entirely based on your enjoyment of what you’re doing.

am i the only one that likes the look of twilight, is going for it, the normal way, and couldn’t give a … what people think? Why does it have to mean something? I don’t give a crap if by the time i have it half my server runs around with it, or has bought it. If you want prestige how bout trying to achieve something you can be proud of… (here’s a clue, it’s not to be found in a game)

Ehra.5240:

critickitten.1498:

Legendaries are not purely aesthetic items.

Yes they are. Their stats will be exactly the same as Ascended weapons when they release, which means the only reason to get a Legendary over an Ascended weapon is because of its aesthetic.

Arguing otherwise simply because getting one now will save you from a hypothetical “grind” that won’t even be a concern until over a year from now is really silly. And even when considering that, it still in no way makes them a must have. It still doesn’t give a gameplay advantage, it just means that the first level 85 exotic or whatever weapon that they get will be sold instead of equipped. So unfair, I know, but I think everyone without will manage.

Legendaries are, in essence, an infinitely scaling item that will always be better than any future item ever made. I’m honestly baffled that people really think they can minimize this as something that isn’t a big deal, because it really, really is.

Let’s put this in context. If WoW had done this, you would have joined up in 2004 and grinded the game to obtain this amazing shiny Weapon A with Lvl 60 power and max stats. But it’s “no big deal”, says its fans, because it’s just as good as Weapon B that has the same stats. So a bunch of people trust these fans, and settle for the much easier gear to obtain.

Let’s fast forward to today. Weapon B is now long, long out of date, a full 30 levels behind in terms of power, and Weapon A has been buffed to Lvl 90 in power. So effectively, anyone who got Weapon A just got 30 levels of power for free over the course of several expansions and patches, and are guaranteed to go up yet again the next time WoW patches as well….while everyone else got to grind out new gear every five levels with each new expansion.

You can’t possibly hope to pretend that the people who own such an item aren’t a HUGE advantage over every other player in the game. There’s a pretty clear difference there in terms of time investment and even just raw stats. Eventually, if ANet continues with vertical progression (and they said they will), Legendaries will significantly outstrip the stats of today, and their owners are getting that power free of charge.

“It’ll take a year for that new gear to come out” is not an effective counterargument against that when we’re talking about the longevity of the game over the course of many years, and we already know for a fact that there will be more vertical progression and that the level cap will likely increase with each expansion. The devs have said as much. Shoving the problem backwards and saying “yeah, but that won’t be a problem for the next year or so” is removing any chance of fixing the problem before it becomes widespread.

I know you don’t think it’s a big deal and that’s fine. But plenty of folks on these forums do, and it would be nice if you’d let them have their discussions, please.

critickitten.1498:

Let’s put this in context. If WoW had done this

This isn’t WoW. WoW is entirely about new, better gear. Every single new set of content the game adds comes with new, better gear. The best gear is exclusive to the top end instances in that game and can not be acquired by any other means than through doing those instances. Gear drops are also shared between everyone in the party or raid, rather than each individual getting their own loot. The two are not comparable.

Getting high end, non-legendary gear in this game is not difficult. It’s nowhere the time investment it is in WoW and it’s nowhere near the time investment you guys are implying. I don’t know how you expect people to take seriously the idea that getting a single exotic weapon is a huge time investment and thus earning a Legendary is a huge time/resource saver (especially when you account for the time/resources spent getting the Legendary in the first place). It just isn’t. Ascended gear is a point of contention since it can only be gotten through a single area in the game and Anet has already confirmed they are working on alternate methods of attaining them. We won’t know how that goes until later in the year.

And I’m not preventing anyone from having a discussion. I don’t have much of an opinion on changing how they are acquired and none of my posts have any barring on that topic at all. I don’t mind the current implementation but I wouldn’t be opposed to changes depnding on what they are. What I’m commenting on is the idea that there was some kind of bait and switch that went on with Legendaries, that they’re some kind of unfair advantage or that they’re in any way must haves. If you don’t want to take part in this particular discussion then don’t, no need to complain about it or act like I’m repressing anyone else’s speech.

Oh man 1k hours.
I’m going to make a topic on what I achieved when I hit that mark.

Feels like OP enjoyed messing around and hoping that his appreciation of the game will benefit him something legendary.

Personally I don’t understand how some players can sit and farm 1million karma per every legendary they sell. I make 30k karma an hour which is pretty good and still takes me over a week while maintaining personal life as well. Kudos to you crazy farmers!!

critickitten.1498:

Legendaries are, in essence, an infinitely scaling item that will always be better than any future item ever made. I’m honestly baffled that people really think they can minimize this as something that isn’t a big deal, because it really, really is.

Here’s a clue, this isn’t wow, and you can get max gear by just playing the game… (As they are adding ascended to the achievement rewards) I agree it’s handy that they do go up, but it’s nothing more then that, you don’t need max gear till you are deep in the content, wich has then automaticly rewarded you with max gear. This game has never been about stats grind, and the only stat that really has to be worked for is agony, since it’s the fractal mechanic.

Now let me make this clear, you need to stop moaning. There is no problem with people who have put in a legendairy grind not having to upgrade 1 out of over 10 items, it’s never gonna make up for having spent that much in the first place. I’m halfway on the way to my legendairy now, and if i would sell everything i have i’d have around 400-500 g, wich could probally buy me any of the future max gear for about 20 times they raise it, for ALL my slots. If anything, i’m putting myself back, and will probally get my entire gear upgraded slower.

Stop complaining about people that have either spent hours and hours, or a silly amount of money, much more then you on either part, getting 1 of their items being best in slot while you need maybe a week with a new expansion to get one when they are released (legendairy grind takes months fyi). It doesn’t matter, it’s only one part of your gear. They still need to get all the other parts just like everyone else.

Stop downgrading yourself to the “i gotta have everything” and try to enjoy the game… If this is really all that matters to you, that when a new expansion comes everyone should have to put the same amount of “work” in, stop playing mmo’s. This isn’t work. Seriously…

Ehra.5240:

critickitten.1498:

Let’s put this in context. If WoW had done this

This isn’t WoW.

You’re right, I agree entirely. GW2 isn’t WoW.

Now let’s see if you can take the next step and ask yourself: Then why are they using WoW’s design structure for their game?

No, stop typing your rebuttal, I know you’re already starting your post right now. Stop, and think for a moment. In November, what was added to GW2? Newer and better gear that is exclusive to only one location in the game and not acquired elsewhere.

And what will future expansions be adding? Level cap raises that come with newer and better gear, most of which will be acquired only by playing in the new regions provided by that expansion.

I think that sounds rather familiar to me.

Look at GW1. Yes, I’m tired of saying it just as you’re tired of hearing it, but seriously, it’s the best example of how this problem should be addressed. GW1 added massive amounts of new gear, skills, and content while maintaining horizontal progression, the same level cap, and it kept people hooked for many, many years. If GW2 intends to compete with WoW, it should avoid making the cardinal mistake of trying to beat WoW by using its business model.

Yes, they’ve said they will fix the problem of Ascended gear’s current method of obtainment, and I applaud them for taking that step forward. But should it ever have occurred? Nope. I’m not exactly going to toss out praise for fixing something that should never have happened. We’ll see what happens in the coming months, certainly, but I’m not going to give them a hand for fixing their mistake.

You’re right. GW2 isn’t WoW. So they should prove that by taking steps away from the vertical progression model of WoW.

Yet GW2’s devs have said they’re fine with vertical progression. They want to raise the level cap and introduce more vertical progression in future expansions. I would ask that if you really want to have a discussion, we stop pretending that they’re taking a bold new approach to MMOs and be real for a moment. GW1 did horizontal progression far, far better than GW2 did, and there’s nothing wrong with asking to take a few steps back towards that formula.

I’m happy to have a real discussion with you on this subject provided we’re willing to be realistic. But this discussion is about fixing legendaries, so that’s a discussion best held elsewhere.

critickitten.1498:

GW1 did horizontal progression far, far better than GW2 did, and there’s nothing wrong with asking to take a few steps back towards that formula.

I’m off topic here and may get an infraction, but I gotta say one reason why I loved GW1 was because I didn’t play for a couple years, and when I came back my monk could still compete with other people in PVP (granted, I didn’t know most of what was going on anymore).

To get this on topic… @Fox. The point isn’t the time it takes to get the legendary, the point is that it the way they implemented legendaries is frowned upon by many (at least from those that I see posting on the forums) players (and also goes against what the devs said about the game, in a way).

critickitten.1498:

Now let’s see if you can take the next step and ask yourself: Then why are they using WoW’s design structure for their game?

They aren’t. I just explained some pretty massive ways that this game’s structure is different from WoW’s. Your one, entire example is something that I already commented on in my post and which Anet has already agreed is an issue and is working on a solution to. I’m not expecting you to pat them on the back for working on the issue, I’m expecting you to not act like nothing’s being done about it and things will still be the way they are now whenever the next expansion comes out.

Level cap raises that come with newer and better gear, most of which will be acquired only by playing in the new regions provided by that expansion.

Except that’s not how this game works. A level 80 going back to a low level area can still get high level loot drops. There’s no reason to think that will suddenly stop once we reach level 85 or 90.

I’m happy to have a real discussion with you on this subject provided we’re willing to be realistic. But this discussion is about fixing legendaries, so that’s a discussion best held elsewhere.

The comments I’m replying to are being made in this thread. If you didn’t want people to comment on the topic of how much of an advantage Legendaries are or whether they were a bait and switch then why would you yourself start that discussion? I’m not going to stop replying to comments I want to reply to just because you don’t like seeing them in the thread.

And I really don’t see how “is it unfair for Legendaries to be able to scale wit the best gear?” is NOT relevant to the discussion of “fixing” Legendaries. How fair or unfair it is is entirely based on to how difficult it is to get the best gear in the game. The difficulty of acquiring exotics and Ascended items is directly tied to how much of an “advantage” having a Legendary weapon is. You can’t discuss one without the other.

Yeah, it’s a shame it had to be made personal. I was liking the discussion.

Like I said, I’m not opposed to changing how they’re earned. I’m just not seeing how they’re some huge advantage.

Ehra.5240:

Like I said, I’m not opposed to changing how they’re earned. I’m just not seeing how they’re some huge advantage.

The reasons why it is a significant advantage have already been presented to you on multiple occasions. Repeating them again is circular arguing and I have other time commitments at present.

It’s fine if you don’t agree with them. But at least acknowledge that you have been told what those arguments are.

I did acknowledge them. When I disagreed with them and explained how I didn’t agree they were significant advantages. They’re only an advantage if the best gear in the game is difficult to earn. Exotics are anything but and Ascended gear acquisition is in flux. Like I said, I’m not seeing it. That doesn’t mean I’m saying you didn’t try to convince me.

meantime i already crafted gift of mastery

only precursor and the other two things to go, and dont even care or are in a rush because have the same stats of my current exotic weapon, and arent that nice looking weapons, i even thing the purple aura weapons looks really nice or even the ascalonian ones

Ehra.5240:

I did acknowledge them. When I disagreed with them and explained how I didn’t agree they were significant advantages. They’re only an advantage if the best gear in the game is difficult to earn. Exotics are anything but and Ascended gear acquisition is in flux. Like I said, I’m not seeing it. That doesn’t mean I’m saying you didn’t try to convince me.

Exotics are easy, and yes, ascended gear acquisition is in flux. If Ascended gear acquisition is difficult, then legendaries will give people an advantage. If Ascended aren’t, then maybe some other items they introduce later may be. And keep in mind, there is a possibility of legendary armor, so it wouldn’t be limited to just weapons (assuming the armor is made in a manner similar to that of the weapons).

And just another thing to think about. Say Anet decides they want to implement some epic quest to get some nice weapon. They will never be able to introduce a weapon that is better (in terms of stats) then the legendaries, not even in an expansion. While that might not be a problem to some people, in my opinion it limits what Anet can do in the future, which isn’t good for a game like this.

And just to make sure I’m clear, I’m not saying there shouldn’t be legendaries. I’m saying that Anet could’ve implemented them in a much better way.

Would be nice if the next batch of legendaries were account bound on acquire and souldbound on use. It’s just really pathetic how the current legendaries are.

I made my The Minstrel regardless of how poor most of the people think of it as a legendary. I’m sure it’ll get an upgrade!

Vol.5241:

I have nearly 1200 hours and have two legendaries. And no, before you accuse, I don’t bot, nor do I play the TP. If anything, I grind, and also make investments (that’s different than playing the TP). My second one was lucky since I picked up Dusk and was able to sell it.

I’m guessing you are extremely inefficient at using your time to make money.

o.O

That there sums up how damaging mmos can be to certain people’s lives. If you claim that obtaining a Legendary requires, in your idea paraphrased, “efficient use of time to make money”, lets examine what it costs a hardcore gamer.

Consider this mathematically: GW2 has been out for 143 days. Total hours: 143×24=3432. Now giving you the benefit of the doubt and assuming you aren’t a basement dweller and have some semblance of a professional life/studies, and, assuming your professional duties in some way consumed a standard 40-hour week, your total work hours are at 40×22=880.

Further, let’s say you average 6 hours a night of sleep. Any less just makes my point even more obvious. 143×6=858 sleep hours. 858+880=1738.

Minus sleep and work, your spare time equals out to be 3432-1738=1694. Minus ‘1200’ for your addiction and your at 494 hours of non-gaming related spare time. You literally spent well over half of your spare time gaming. You average 8.4 hours a day playing GW2 alone. That’s more than a typical work day. 3.4 hours a day are reserved for personal time but due to professional schedules, you wouldn’t be able to work 8 hours, game 8.4 and sleep for 6 and spend the 1.5 remaining on social interaction. So we’d have to assume you spend even more time per day gaming on the weekend/days off to make up for gaming deficiencies during the week.

If obtaining even 1 legendary takes 600+ /played time then no thx. But then again its moot for me since I’m in this for the WvW anyways and obtaining one through a grinding contrivance is not even a consideration for me; however, I do sympathize with others when their style of play is gear progression. If anything, for a game that claimed you could progress through WvW alone I’ve never heard of anyone obtaining even a precursor in wvw. This just shows anets idea of progressive itemization is limited to pve alone.