Guild Wars 2

Anet has already demonstrated that they are not interested in debating or discussing these issues further. They closed other threads, including the “big one,” without so much as a clarifying comment. That’s who they are, and if you thought otherwise, their actions have now spoken louder than words.

Sumii, just want to +1 your post. Read every bit of it twice and it just spoke volumes to me. Thanks!

Sumii.2845:

Why should we (ArenaNet) care:

• Aside from losing consumers you’re damaging any future legacy your brand name might have. I am a Marketing & Brand Developer. I work in progressing my brand’s name and making sure that it’s outlook in the future is improved. By jeopardizing your brand’s image you are liable to lose any future chance of new consumers or old consumers giving you a second chance.
  (2/2)

I am thinking the same. I am studying my graduate in Brand Management and Communication. I have no experience in the real world – but this inconsistency and the “breaking” of a brand-promise, it goes against all theory we’ve had.

This will not hit the GW brand only, it will hit ArenaNet for years and years. Basically you’re throwing A LOT of brand equity out the window.
I think one of the reasons WoW became such a hit back in the days, was because it was Blizzard behind the game – they were already known for many successful game titles back then.

ArenaNet will end up as a weaker brand because of this – people won’t forget that easily.

You have raised many valid points here but I am sure your thread will be locked very soon. I did pre-purchase the game after seeing the “manifesto”. I trusted them because I heard great things about Guild Wars 1. All my friends have already quit the game, and I only log in to do my Ori mining run and log off for the day.

All of us want something like this, But after a week with only silence, im starting to dont care about this situation.
When i become really starved of this, a will simply change game… and goodbye.

This is a great post OP. I really hope they will give you the feedback you deserve to this.

Very well put by OP.

The fact is that the brand is already being hurt Anet’s lack of response to their gaming community. The issue has become big enough that outside bloggers, mmo websites, etc. are talking about it, and Anet does not come off in a positive light. The “hopefully if we wait long enough it will all go away” attitude definitely doesn’t say strong and well run business either.

+1 from me, the state of the game is currently unacceptable for those that have paid. This is NOT what was advertised, it is buggy as termite city and there is zero being said about it other than “we have your money and your ideas, we are going to keep one of those things and discard the other, can you guess which one is which?”

Thanks for this post, Sumii. I think it’s a wonderful presentation of what a lot of us feel.

I’ll only be saying that I agree with the OP, got nothing else to say.

Id chill a little bit about getting responses, because:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/The-teams-that-work-on-PvP-WvW-Balance/first#post818357

I know, its about PvP, but apparently a lot of them are out of house right now. What it also tells me is that they are paying attention to the forums, so I would expect some more clarification on the Ascended gear design choices… perhaps in a week or two.

Edit: Since he seems to be in a talkative mood perhaps you could PM Jonathan Sharp, though personally I would first have a list of topics and replies about Ascended gear that are constructively put(like this one). – I dont know if its against the rules to PM a specific dev or not, or if you even can, so ymmv.

Agreed. However, seeing as the Ascended Items thread got closed when i was starting to hope that some response from developers will be forthcoming suggests, that they will continue to ignore the fire until the whole house burns down around them.

If you guys really want your voices heard by people in the office instead of just the forum mods, here’s an official survey about the latest patch/event.

http://newsletters.ncsoft.com/emp/gw2/announcement/2012-11-21/na.html

If they only plan to communicate via narrow minded surveys – they’re not gonna accomplish anything meaningful.
Narrowminded in the sense, that this is about a lot more than an event.

I just want to say that I + 1 your post and thank you for your effort.

+1 to OP.

Not sure why they’re so silent, perhaps the karka got their tongue.

Loumy.7841:

If they only plan to communicate via narrow minded surveys – they’re not gonna accomplish anything meaningful.
Narrowminded in the sense, that this is about a lot more than an event.

And they are afraid to do it ingame.

Vakirauta.6397:

Loumy.7841:

If they only plan to communicate via narrow minded surveys – they’re not gonna accomplish anything meaningful.
Narrowminded in the sense, that this is about a lot more than an event.

And they are afraid to do it ingame.

Anet does not own the rights to themselves, after giving the manifesto and having it thrown in their faces…how much leeway would you as a publisher give your developer without scrutiny?

I think some of the anti stat progession guys would be shocked and surprised to see, how small their numbers are in the grand scheme of things.

Anet is not stupid, they proved it with this game (which had stat progression and a grind from launch), so let’s let them run their game, they seem to be doing a fine job in my mind and a lot of other peoples opinions are similar.

You all also forget not all of that 200 page thread was negative, a lot of us enjoyed the one time event, and enjoy new tiers of gear to try and achieve.

They are silent because they stand at a crossroads in a business sense. They have two choices, both will be unpopular, the question is, which one is MOST unpopular.

They have changed the rules, and whether it (Ascended) is game breaking (in mechanics not theory) is now no longer important. Poor communication has led to misinformation and for some of the player base, a negative opinion of new content.

For some (progressivists lets call them) this is a good thing for others (Confused lets call them) it “appears” to go against the manifesto and other things, whether it is/or does is now inconssequential

ANET stand at a crossroads, trust me on this, and I am guessing that there are some pretty big meetings taking place.

Personal opinion, I dont mind gated content, I can take it or leave it, I just dont like buggy games, and this game, is buggy. If I want to “ascend” I may, I may not, it wont “break” the game for me (I respect those of you that are unhappy, I feel you have a right after reading the manifesto, but then I am one of the confused).

ANET and their new paymasters have to make a decision and be HONEST about it, let those that wish to leave (depending on which choice they make) leave, they deserve the courtesy of the truth, if nothing else

i just got infracted (twice!) for posting the phrase:

“this is not the arenanet you are looking for”

by which i mean (constructively) that i agree with the OP’s mandate,

however, the company that won our trust does not exist anymore,

other than in name.

to paraphrase Herac-l-i-tus (forum filter hates ancient greeks):

“no customer can deal with the same company twice,
because the second time,
it is not the same company and he is not the same customer”

Vakirauta.6397:

Loumy.7841:

If they only plan to communicate via narrow minded surveys – they’re not gonna accomplish anything meaningful.
Narrowminded in the sense, that this is about a lot more than an event.

And they are afraid to do it ingame.

Edit: If I took what you said out of context, ignore me :p

I wouldnt say “afraid”, Id say its smart, since if they were going to give any kind of official response it should be on the forums for everyone to see first hand(just look at the “2 devs 1 cup” thing). Its kind of pointless to give explanations in-game when only a handful of players will see it, and then the rest will only get out of context second-hand misquotes.

Heck looking at other MMO dev teams like Blizzard or Bioware(and Im not saying ANet should be like them!), theyre “official” responses are drafted and reviewed before being posted on the forums. And I can see why, because as soon as a developer says anything its taken as the rule of law and the community precedes to build shrines around it(one way or the other).

Especially for the Ascended issue I think they should take the time to give a well thought out and explanatory response, one thats bounced around internally before being posted.

JonathanSharp.7094:

That’s what I’m trying to do. We can’t spend our ENTIRE days on the forums, but we try to make an effort to take a break from development as much as we can to address your questions/ideas/comments/concerns.

And the reality is, you guys go for stretches of time without seeing anything new from us (patch to patch)….so even though we’re making a ton of progress, we can’t show it until it’s ready. Which means there can be long gaps of communication if we’re not careful. But things are still happening, features are being added. We just can’t talk about them until they’re ready.

This im hoping is why they have not responded, once they are ready with whatever they are going to do next we will know…. I just hope thats its not too long.

@ OP a pretty well thought out post.

Sumii.2845:

By jeopardizing your brand’s image you are liable to lose any future chance of new consumers or old consumers giving you a second chance.

I can agree with that. There’s 3 companies who’ve made MMOs that I will never have anything to do with again due to their outright lies to their customer base, endless unkept promises, misrepresenting game content, and totally ignoreing input from play testers when updates were being tested. UBISOFT, (Shadowbane) Funcom, (Age of Conan) And Bioware. (Star Wars, the Old Republic)

So Anet had best not do like those companies did because a lot of people will remember.

Huck.1405:

Sumii.2845:

By jeopardizing your brand’s image you are liable to lose any future chance of new consumers or old consumers giving you a second chance.

I can agree with that. There’s 3 companies who’ve made MMOs that I will never have anything to do with again due to their outright lies to their customer base, endless unkept promises, misrepresenting game content, and totally ignoreing input from play testers when updates were being tested. UBISOFT, (Shadowbane) Funcom, (Age of Conan) And Bioware. (Star Wars, the Old Republic)

So Anet had best not do like those companies did because a lot of people will remember.

man I knew Asher and Wolfpack aka Stray Bullet games when they were in Austin Tx with Shadowbane. They wanted to do all kinds of things to the game, but their publisher Ubisoft didnt want to give them the money to do any of it…including more servers, better balancing etc..though honestly at its end..that game was one of the best balanced and most awesome pvp centric ever, people are STILL trying to recreate the code in a newer engine.

Missy.7356:

JonathanSharp.7094:

That’s what I’m trying to do. We can’t spend our ENTIRE days on the forums, but we try to make an effort to take a break from development as much as we can to address your questions/ideas/comments/concerns.

And the reality is, you guys go for stretches of time without seeing anything new from us (patch to patch)….so even though we’re making a ton of progress, we can’t show it until it’s ready. Which means there can be long gaps of communication if we’re not careful. But things are still happening, features are being added. We just can’t talk about them until they’re ready.

This im hoping is why they have not responded, once they are ready with whatever they are going to do next we will know…. I just hope thats its not too long.

@ OP a pretty well thought out post.

And perhaps they didnt get the reaction they were hoping for with the last patch, so they could be rethinking and collecting more feedback(survey!) before committing a response. Which is one reason Im happy to see more constructive threads like these.

Zplus.4217:

If you guys really want your voices heard by people in the office instead of just the forum mods, here’s an official survey about the latest patch/event.

http://newsletters.ncsoft.com/emp/gw2/announcement/2012-11-21/na.html

Sadly they speak only about the event itself and not about all the other things involved.
However I did give them some feedback about why I did not invite friends, related to this.

OP, great post, read all of it and I do agree, we need that honest straight-forward answer.

Hawks.5736:

Id chill a little bit about getting responses, because:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/The-teams-that-work-on-PvP-WvW-Balance/first#post818357

I know, its about PvP, but apparently a lot of them are out of house right now. What it also tells me is that they are paying attention to the forums, so I would expect some more clarification on the Ascended gear design choices… perhaps in a week or two.

Edit: Since he seems to be in a talkative mood perhaps you could PM Jonathan Sharp, though personally I would first have a list of topics and replies about Ascended gear that are constructively put(like this one). – I dont know if its against the rules to PM a specific dev or not, or if you even can, so ymmv.

Thanks for this, I did in fact message Jonathan and am hoping for a reply. Although I will keep it as a realistic hope and thus, not expecting a reply.

Zplus.4217:

If you guys really want your voices heard by people in the office instead of just the forum mods, here’s an official survey about the latest patch/event.

http://newsletters.ncsoft.com/emp/gw2/announcement/2012-11-21/na.html

I have already filled out the survey, however as others have noted it is not very open to much input in the regards of paragraph fields. Reading that much block text is a hindrance and tedious to be sure, however it provides much more insight to a company than simple radio button options.

DegoLocc.5976:

I think some of the anti stat progession guys would be shocked and surprised to see, how small their numbers are in the grand scheme of things.

Anet is not stupid, they proved it with this game (which had stat progression and a grind from launch), so let’s let them run their game, they seem to be doing a fine job in my mind and a lot of other peoples opinions are similar.

You all also forget not all of that 200 page thread was negative, a lot of us enjoyed the one time event, and enjoy new tiers of gear to try and achieve.

Again, if you read my post I ask for any statement no matter what it says, not just justifying or answering the negative. And I did state that it was ‘mostly’ negative, not entirely. In truth, just having huge amounts of positive and negative input alone from consumers deserves a formal response – whether being thankful or explaining one’s self.

Mimizu.7340:

i just got infracted (twice!) for posting the phrase:

“this is not the arenanet you are looking for”

by which i mean (constructively) that i agree with the OP’s mandate,

however, the company that won our trust does not exist anymore,

other than in name.

to paraphrase Herac-l-i-tus (forum filter hates ancient greeks):

“no customer can deal with the same company twice,
because the second time,
it is not the same company and he is not the same customer”

If it makes you feel better many of my posts asking this same question have been marked with infractions. I do find the moderator(s) on the forums extremely stringent and overly brash – with a lack of viable communication skills. Putting that to the side though….

That is an extremely valid and well put quote.

“A large amount of posts by moderators being locked, merged, deleted / logging infractions against – due to posts not being ‘constructive criticism’ or ‘overly negative’.#”

To add to this issue, you can submit e-mail complaints and challenges to these infractions and moderation actions, but I have yet to get a response. I had a post deleted and infracted for “personal attack and insults” that was merely agreeing with another post and adding another issue I had with the game to the other’s post as an addendum. Neither post had name calling or personal attacks. They were benign posts. I submitted a complaint response to the listed email and have not even received a confirmation that they even processed the email. I don’t find waiting weeks on a response to be adequate.

Sounds like we need help from Anonymous.
On a more serious note +1 for the OP

Anet is making the game they want to make. If you think you can make a better game, go make one. We need more good games out there. But bashing a game anonymously and then demanding a response demonstrates an overinflated ego. You are not owed a response.

MistaMike.7356:

Anet is making the game they want to make. If you think you can make a better game, go make one. We need more good games out there. But bashing a game anonymously and then demanding a response demonstrates an overinflated ego. You are not owed a response.

Paying Consumers ALWAYS deserve a response to a defective product.

+1.

I think ArenaNet, no matter what their stated intentions, has to acknowledge that a large part of their player base has taken this (the introduction of Ascended gear etc) as a less-than-positive change and a move away from the philosophy expressed in the Manifesto.

CCP listened to EVE Online players when they were unhappy with the direction the game was taking with the Incarna expansion, and went back to focusing on what mattered to the players. I hope that ArenaNet can do the same.

Aethena.7609:

+1.

I think ArenaNet, no matter what their stated intentions, has to acknowledge that a large part of their player base has taken this (the introduction of Ascended gear etc) as a less-than-positive change and a move away from the philosophy expressed in the Manifesto.

CCP listened to EVE Online players when they were unhappy with the direction the game was taking with the Incarna expansion, and went back to focusing on what mattered to the players. I hope that ArenaNet can do the same.

I +1 your quote and response but you already stated the difference between these two companies. CCP which listens to its players also has them get involved which is why the CSM was formed. Anet on the other hand hardly listens at all and refuses to let the players get involved. Although I don’t think they could form anything as groundbreaking as CCP’s CSM which was pure genius

The blog post just put up by Chris Whiteside said nothing about the controversy with ascended gear. He rather just confirmed they are continuing to work on progression. The die is cast.

Ned Stark.9356:

MistaMike.7356:

Anet is making the game they want to make. If you think you can make a better game, go make one. We need more good games out there. But bashing a game anonymously and then demanding a response demonstrates an overinflated ego. You are not owed a response.

Paying Consumers ALWAYS deserve a response to a defective product.

Then call your lawyer and bring a lawsuit. You will be laughed out the door. Get a refund if you feel so strongly about a few bugs at endgame.

Ned Stark.9356:

Aethena.7609:

+1.

I think ArenaNet, no matter what their stated intentions, has to acknowledge that a large part of their player base has taken this (the introduction of Ascended gear etc) as a less-than-positive change and a move away from the philosophy expressed in the Manifesto.

CCP listened to EVE Online players when they were unhappy with the direction the game was taking with the Incarna expansion, and went back to focusing on what mattered to the players. I hope that ArenaNet can do the same.

I +1 your quote and response but you already stated the difference between these two companies. CCP which listens to its players also has them get involved which is why the CSM was formed. Anet on the other hand hardly listens at all and refuses to let the players get involved. Although I don’t think they could form anything as groundbreaking as CCP’s CSM which was pure genius

Having a Player Test Realm/Server/Shard would help a lot.

MistaMike.7356:

Ned Stark.9356:

MistaMike.7356:

Anet is making the game they want to make. If you think you can make a better game, go make one. We need more good games out there. But bashing a game anonymously and then demanding a response demonstrates an overinflated ego. You are not owed a response.

Paying Consumers ALWAYS deserve a response to a defective product.

Then call your lawyer and bring a lawsuit. You will be laughed out the door.

Yeah thought the same when one man brought one up on NCsoft for making a game he got addicted to apparently. and what’s funny about this is the judge allowed it to go to court.

i agree with you op i think a statement is needed. i was a bit upset at first but im calmed down thinking i wish they would have been more forthcoming. to me it might have made a big difference in my initial feelings and my future purchases. i dont think ill quit guild wars 2 i got a decent amount of good things out of it dont feel i need any refund and wont ask for one but as for future purchases i may take my money elsewhere. i was going to spend some cash during the lost shore content which i spent elsewhere. i dont have any infractions as of yet. i think if they value any money i might spend via the cash shop they need to clarify about there own future and not just make pr statements like the whiteside quote

I have to agree with the OP on this.

Gilandred.9870:

The blog post just put up by Chris Whiteside said nothing about the controversy with ascended gear. He rather just confirmed they are continuing to work on progression. The die is cast.

But he did say theyll be doing a lot of Q&A’s soon. I think the first one is about PvP though.

Nice post- Gear grind being added is bad…Trammel bad.

There’s a new blog post about post-Lost Shores but it completely avoids talking about the Ascended gear controversy.

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/chris-whiteside-on-the-lost-shores-and-beyond/

I agree that a response is needed and it’s good practice from a crisis management standpoint as well. The franchise will suffer for the silence. On the other hand I understand the predicament. I think their first tactic has been to wait and see if it all settles down on its own. I think that idea is probably out the window by now so what do they say? It will have to be something logically coherent. Addressing a gap with Ascended gear won’t work because everyone knows there was no gap before because exotics and Ledgendaries had the same stats. Ascended gear, addressing the gapless gap, created a real gap between exotics and Ascended. Similarly their reference to Ascended gear addressing the players sense of “progression” won’t work because of the incoherence with all previous statements about the nature of the game and specifically with the manifesto. The only strategy that will work will be to say that they were wrong with the manifesto and decided to abandon it in favor of the gear-grind treadmill model. But, saying that will surely infuriate everyone who trusted their word. This is the mother of all rock and hard places. Regardless, they need to address it head-on…and soon.

I believe Anet actually reads all feedbacks, but they don’t to reply to every single one of them or people would believe all their threads deserve an official answer.

If I was a dev I would do the same to be honest.

But they did give a statement about the Ascended Gear.

They said it wasn’t a gear grind. It was Item progression. Perhaps they don’t know their Shakespeare…“A rose by any other name….”

Either MistaMike’s post received an infraction or he chose to delete it (either way it was a bit of a trolling post), however, all in all it takes away from the point of this thread.

Despite your post being now gone let me address a couple issues you stated:

• I never once threatened lawsuit. If you read my post through and through (which it seems you didn’t) or didn’t pay attention to the TLDR note (again, seems you didn’t) I said I didn’t condone or think there was any benefit to threaten a lawsuit.

What I DID say was that it would be naive to think that such things couldn’t or wouldn’t happen if things kept on this current track.

The favored yet not thought out response of Go make your own game if you can do better disregards the main points of this post. Every person that purchased this game is a vested consumer that has brought money into the revenue stream for Guild Wars 2. No, we’re not stock holders, but we ARE stake holders. They have a concept and an idea that they have marketed and promoted (rather successfully) and that is generally the purpose most of us decided to vest our interests and money into this game. However, steering away from this main focus is a clear and present danger to their stake holders.

If your simple answer is to “Go make your own game then” then you are missing the whole business aspect of games. They are in it to make money and to do so there are standards they need to follow. One of such is following their own guidelines set forth by themselves. If they are going to change those guidelines, it is important for them to convey that to their stakeholders.

thay have had one (actualy 2) but it dosnt say what you guys want to hear. Get over it