“I’m finding companies should sell access to forums,
it seems many like them better than the games they comment on.” -Horrorscope.7632
All for being civil on the forums (even if others don’t). I usually stay away from this kind of language (unless suitably provoked).
But, adding the words “casual” and “hardcore” to the OP’s list.
One thing is not a slur and I use it often because it adequately describes why this game is in the state it’s in today (and why so many games have problems)…
Apologist.
When you have enough of these trying to play devils advocate you ruin the ability of customers to try to improve the game because apologists are able to send false messages to the development team that everything is perfectly fine. And I’m not talking of course of sensible arguments to thwart those who would constantly and consistantly try to break the game by making false claims, I’m talking about a genuine misuse of the excitement for a title to disuade any honest claims about where the game is heading when it’s indeed heading to a terrible place. Apologists have been responsible for breaking multiple games of late, ever since 2011 I’ve seen them allow tragedy to strike multiple MMO’s by sending the wrong message to developers, all because they took too much pride in something they didn’t make.
So while I agree that these words on your list are indeed slurs, let’s leave apologist off the list shall we so that we can be clear that there is a problem here when people become too prideful and allow bad things to happen to mmo’s by sending the wrong message to the developers and publishers about problems in the game that affect everyone negatively.
White knight
fanboy
troll
shill
haters
whiners
complainers
entitled
toxic
Awesome! BHB is not on the proscribed list.
Djinn — do you sense Guhracie is “labeling?” He mentions his position was to not participate when certain words are used as a slur. If you feel he’s making his personal choice too hurriedly, it’s a harmless choice, as he is choosing not to participate. He’s not saying he’ll get into the thread and flame the forum member, or that he’ll report and hope they get smited by all the powers of The Six Gods. He’s just saying “If someone uses slurs, I’m out.”
Or do you see it differently?
I completely agree with Guhracie and said so shortly after the OP. In my post above yours here, I’m speaking about the various people who replied to the OP defending their right to negatively label (slur) – especially those thinking it is fine to call someone a “complainer” if they had a post(s) in which they were complaining.
Djinn, I’m sorry! I meant to include in my previous post that you were not arguing against my reasoning.
To those who have contributed in good faith, good humor, and clear intentions: Thank you all. Regardless of if you agree with my original post and/or its intent, if you’ve added constructively to the discussion, I truly appreciate it.
I’d like to make mention of a couple of things about my original post: I did edit to clarify that the terms will be taken in context, so if people would stop acting as if that’s not my intention, that would be swell. Also, even though I added in that clarification, my post always said that I’d be ignoring the usage of those terms when they were used as attacks. So, just for the record, I did not backpedal on my stance. I always stated that it was meant to be taken in the larger context.
I’m not adding every term listed because, just as some of you have issues with my list, I don’t necessarily believe every suggestion belongs on my personal list. I’m in no way trying to impose my personal list on anyone else; it’s just a jumping off point. I have tried to add the ones that I feel I overlooked (fanboy, in particular!).
Djinn — do you sense Guhracie is “labeling?” He mentions his position was to not participate when certain words are used as a slur. If you feel he’s making his personal choice too hurriedly, it’s a harmless choice, as he is choosing not to participate. He’s not saying he’ll get into the thread and flame the forum member, or that he’ll report and hope they get smited by all the powers of The Six Gods. He’s just saying “If someone uses slurs, I’m out.”
Or do you see it differently?
I completely agree with Guhracie and said so shortly after the OP. In my post above yours here, I’m speaking about the various people who replied to the OP defending their right to negatively label (slur) – especially those thinking it is fine to call someone a “complainer” if they had a post(s) in which they were complaining.
Djinn, I’m sorry! I meant to include in my previous post that you were not arguing against my reasoning.
To those who have contributed in good faith, good humor, and clear intentions: Thank you all. Regardless of if you agree with my original post and/or its intent, if you’ve added constructively to the discussion, I truly appreciate it.
I’d like to make mention of a couple of things about my original post: I did edit to clarify that the terms will be taken in context, so if people would stop acting as if that’s not my intention, that would be swell. Also, even though I added in that clarification, my post always said that I’d be ignoring the usage of those terms when they were used as attacks. So, just for the record, I did not backpedal on my stance. I always stated that it was meant to be taken in the larger context.
I’m not adding every term listed because, just as some of you have issues with my list, I don’t necessarily believe every suggestion belongs on my personal list. I’m in no way trying to impose my personal list on anyone else; it’s just a jumping off point. I have tried to add the ones that I feel I overlooked (fanboy, in particular!).
I’m still unconvinced that you’ve got a bright future trying to go about this in the fashion you are. I can only speak for myself, but as someone that agrees with the gist of what I think you mean by it, I shake my head at the method.
You’ve made yourself a very easy target for mockery and dismissal. The confrontational candor of the post would not compel me to go ‘Oh, I should care what this person has to say and think about his/her points’ if I were a neutral party, let alone natively disposed in a contrary view.
If I had a contrary view, I might perceive this as a declaration of war, and you would lose that war, because you cannot win it under these or any circumstances.
In sum, you’re picking a fight (whether you mean to or not) that you cannot win. No amount of pledges or declarations made like this will make the behavior you deem problematic go away, change or…anything at all.
At best, you achieve nothing. At worst, you get a few kittens kicking it and guffawing because you can’t do anything except silence yourself anyway.
And really, do you suppose that the people often couching their points and allegations in such terms are going to be anything but pleased that you’ve essentially promised to go away if they start making digital squiggles you don’t approve of?
You’ve told them how to get rid of you. Little else.
Why would you do that?
Djinn — do you sense Guhracie is “labeling?” He mentions his position was to not participate when certain words are used as a slur. If you feel he’s making his personal choice too hurriedly, it’s a harmless choice, as he is choosing not to participate. He’s not saying he’ll get into the thread and flame the forum member, or that he’ll report and hope they get smited by all the powers of The Six Gods. He’s just saying “If someone uses slurs, I’m out.”
Or do you see it differently?
I completely agree with Guhracie and said so shortly after the OP. In my post above yours here, I’m speaking about the various people who replied to the OP defending their right to negatively label (slur) – especially those thinking it is fine to call someone a “complainer” if they had a post(s) in which they were complaining.
Djinn, I’m sorry! I meant to include in my previous post that you were not arguing against my reasoning.
To those who have contributed in good faith, good humor, and clear intentions: Thank you all. Regardless of if you agree with my original post and/or its intent, if you’ve added constructively to the discussion, I truly appreciate it.
I’d like to make mention of a couple of things about my original post: I did edit to clarify that the terms will be taken in context, so if people would stop acting as if that’s not my intention, that would be swell. Also, even though I added in that clarification, my post always said that I’d be ignoring the usage of those terms when they were used as attacks. So, just for the record, I did not backpedal on my stance. I always stated that it was meant to be taken in the larger context.
I’m not adding every term listed because, just as some of you have issues with my list, I don’t necessarily believe every suggestion belongs on my personal list. I’m in no way trying to impose my personal list on anyone else; it’s just a jumping off point. I have tried to add the ones that I feel I overlooked (fanboy, in particular!).
I’m still unconvinced that you’ve got a bright future trying to go about this in the fashion you are. I can only speak for myself, but as someone that agrees with the gist of what I think you mean by it, I shake my head at the method.
You’ve made yourself a very easy target for mockery and dismissal. The confrontational candor of the post would not compel me to go ‘Oh, I should care what this person has to say and think about his/her points’ if I were a neutral party, let alone natively disposed in a contrary view.
If I had a contrary view, I might perceive this as a declaration of war, and you would lose that war, because you cannot win it under these or any circumstances.
In sum, you’re picking a fight (whether you mean to or not) that you cannot win. No amount of pledges or declarations made like this will make the behavior you deem problematic go away, change or…anything at all.
At best, you achieve nothing. At worst, you get a few kittens kicking it and guffawing because you can’t do anything except silence yourself anyway.
And really, do you suppose that the people often couching their points and allegations in such terms are going to be anything but pleased that you’ve essentially promised to go away if they start making digital squiggles you don’t approve of?
You’ve told them how to get rid of you. Little else.
Why would you do that?
I haven’t promised to go away. I’ve promised that I won’t engage in word wars of that nature. Those words won’t get a reaction or a response out of me. How is that not “winning” (insofar as one can win such things, obviously)?
I haven’t promised to go away. I’ve promised that I won’t engage in word wars of that nature. Those words won’t get a reaction or a response out of me. How is that not “winning” (insofar as one can win such things, obviously)?
That’s well and fine, though I have the sneaking suspicion that most inclined to do that, do that already. Those not inclined to do that…probably won’t start because you’ve put out a call for pledges.
Pledges are essentially social contracts. Social contracts between near-ubiquitous strangers on a game forum are worth about what they’d casually seem to, being almost nothing at all.
I dunno. I just can’t see the point of what you’re doing as it relates to your prior-stated intention of getting people to think about it and moderate themselves. I might suggest inviting people to discuss the terms and how it makes them feel when their arguments are dismissed, shut down or disregarded in such fashions.
Couch it on the personal experience. That’s where almost all of us are be default anyway; what I think, what I feel, what I want.
If you can make someone go ‘Oh, I feel like crap when I’m trying to make a point and someone goes ‘lol you’re just entitled’ and three other people go ‘yeah lol entitled much lol’." THEN I’d say you’ve won.
THEN you’ve made someone identify personally with the problem. That is your only hope of getting anyone to change anything about this pretty much ever, I’d posit.
Things like pledges and such? These sorts of social contract thingies (formal term right there)? They rely on social bonds that don’t exist in this circumstance to mean anything at all, or carry any real weight.
Know what I’m sayin’?
I, Guhracie.3419, do pledge that I will not make use of the petty and demeaning go-to forum slurs. I also pledge that I will immediately disregard the entirety of any post making active use of these slurs, even if the overall opinion is in keeping with my own views. Henceforth, the following ad hominim attacks (and any variation thereof) will be ignored (and not used) by me:
White knight
fanboy
troll
shill
haters
whiners
complainers
entitled
toxicPlease feel free to add to this list, and I will keep it updated with my own personal pledge. Feel free to modify the pledge in any way you’d like, as long as it’s in keeping with the whole theme of making the forum a more positive place to be. Let’s do a little self moderation, folks.
EDIT: To add a few I agree with. I’m also not saying that these words are ignored without context, I’m saying that when they’re slung around as slurs, I’m not going to engage with that post.
+1.
I wish the moderator would just remove the, to quote, snarkfest comments and let people appropriately pledge to the topic. Or better yet, ban the obvious trolls because those are the ones poisoning other threads.
I agree in principle, but I also believe white knights should be called out for what they are.
Why?
I, Guhracie.3419, do pledge that I will not make use of the petty and demeaning go-to forum slurs. I also pledge that I will immediately disregard the entirety of any post making active use of these slurs, even if the overall opinion is in keeping with my own views. Henceforth, the following ad hominim attacks (and any variation thereof) will be ignored (and not used) by me:
White knight
fanboy
troll
shill
haters
whiners
complainers
entitled
toxicPlease feel free to add to this list, and I will keep it updated with my own personal pledge. Feel free to modify the pledge in any way you’d like, as long as it’s in keeping with the whole theme of making the forum a more positive place to be. Let’s do a little self moderation, folks.
EDIT: To add a few I agree with. I’m also not saying that these words are ignored without context, I’m saying that when they’re slung around as slurs, I’m not going to engage with that post.
+1.
I wish the moderator would just remove the, to quote, snarkfest comments and let people appropriately pledge to the topic. Or better yet, ban the obvious trolls because those are the ones poisoning other threads.
Just because there are those of us who do not feel a pledge post will get the desired effect post our opinions it does not mean we are trolls. Please take the usage of the words in the list you quoted to another thread at minimum, thank you.
The ones who would sign the pledge likely already watch what they say and only really say the words during a heated argument, during which time pledges signed would be the last thing on their mind. The ones this thread is aimed at likely do not care as they are already aware that insulting others is against the rules.
But that’s just my opinion.
You should add Folks to the list. That slur refers to people in general. I am not a person in general. I am a unique person and not in any general sense, and I consider it an offensive personal attack against me that you would use the word Folks, as if to group all of us together.
Can’t tell if serious or trolling here, in all honesty. If the latter, then you may ignore the next few statements I will make regarding this post.
Merriam-Webster Definition:
folks : people in general
—used to talk to a group of people in a friendly and informal way
: a certain kind of people
I use this word frequently. I refer to my family often as “my folks,”, large groups of people, generally speaking as “folks” (as per the definition of the word), or people associated with a certain group or collective mindset. ALL of these uses are per the dictionary definition of it.
And I’m sorry, but if you really think that it is derogatory to refer to someone as a member of an associated group, you may as well also consider any inclusive but broad reference to you as an entity aside from explicit referencing by preferred name and title – insulting, because that’s precisely what these words were created and defined to be used for; it is impossible to name every individual entity – and requires far too much effort if all are indeed known – associated or included in a collection.
To make such a ludicrous claim that you may not be generalized among other people is contrary to exactly what you’re preaching regarding a a polite society, for it implies you are to be treated as separate from all others on the basis that a word’s interpreted meaning of assertions of affiliation with others because you consider that affiliation as degrading; I.E., directly imposing that all others are beneath you.
I absolutely condemn this thread, for it demonstrates and enforces the ideals of a limited number of individuals upon the rest of many, and immediately assumes that anyone who may use these terms is doing so incorrectly or using them as a means of insult.
In fact, I would go as far as stating that this thread – by design – is toxic (yes, I went as far as to use the term); it not only promotes the removal of the liberty of promoting free speech of using terms which in it of themselves are not insulting and attempts to spread such ideology for no apparent reason, but also goes as far as trying to unite a mere portion of players to rebel against their use for what is really an undetermined reason while also indicating an air of superiority and status to those which support the cause. The intent I believe is good, but it is not satisfying the desired condition to be met.
I promote using words as they are intended to be used, and detest slurs, but none of the these are part of a real vocabulary, and as such, all of them are synonymous with otherwise-unoffensive terms which even when used in their place would not breach the forum use agreement, and frankly if to be enforced, would indicate that people are taking actual offense to the term due to association with historical events which re-raise psychological trauma and reverberate those associated feelings. Simply, the aforementioned words at this point in history due to their generic use towards no particular group of individuals, do no qualify for such enforcement.
(edited by DeceiverX.8361)
One thing is not a slur and I use it often because it adequately describes why this game is in the state it’s in today (and why so many games have problems)…
Apologist.
When you have enough of these trying to play devils advocate you ruin the ability of customers to try to improve the game because apologists are able to send false messages to the development team that everything is perfectly fine. And I’m not talking of course of sensible arguments to thwart those who would constantly and consistantly try to break the game by making false claims, I’m talking about a genuine misuse of the excitement for a title to disuade any honest claims about where the game is heading when it’s indeed heading to a terrible place. Apologists have been responsible for breaking multiple games of late, ever since 2011 I’ve seen them allow tragedy to strike multiple MMO’s by sending the wrong message to developers, all because they took too much pride in something they didn’t make.
So while I agree that these words on your list are indeed slurs, let’s leave apologist off the list shall we so that we can be clear that there is a problem here when people become too prideful and allow bad things to happen to mmo’s by sending the wrong message to the developers and publishers about problems in the game that affect everyone negatively.
What’s the difference between an apologist and someone who likes a feature you don’t like? I like the NPE over all. That doesn’t make me an apologist (or a fan boy or anything else). It means I like the NPE.
When leveling with the NPE I feel I level faster and I feel the progression more than I used to. It could just be something as simple as that pop up at each level but regardless, it feels better to me.
If I like it better, and I state I like it better, how does that make me an apologist? At what point does someone become an apologist.
These words are used to discredit people not ideas and should not be part of the forums in my opinion.
You should add Folks to the list. That slur refers to people in general. I am not a person in general. I am a unique person and not in any general sense, and I consider it an offensive personal attack against me that you would use the word Folks, as if to group all of us together.
Can’t tell if serious or trolling here, in all honesty. If the latter, then you may ignore the next few statements I will make regarding this post.
Merriam-Webster Definition:
folks : people in general
—used to talk to a group of people in a friendly and informal way
: a certain kind of people
I use this word frequently. I refer to my family often as “my folks,”, large groups of people, generally speaking as “folks” (as per the definition of the word), or people associated with a certain group or collective mindset. ALL of these uses are per the dictionary definition of it.
And I’m sorry, but if you really think that it is derogatory to refer to someone as a member of an associated group, you may as well also consider any inclusive but broad reference to you as an entity aside from explicit referencing by preferred name and title – insulting, because that’s precisely what these words were created and defined to be used for; it is impossible to name every individual entity – and requires far too much effort if all are indeed known – associated or included in a collection.
To make such a ludicrous claim that you may not be generalized among other people is contrary to exactly what you’re preaching regarding a a polite society, for it implies you are to be treated as separate from all others on the basis that a word’s interpreted meaning of assertions of affiliation with others because you consider that affiliation as degrading; I.E., directly imposing that all others are beneath you.
I absolutely condemn this thread, for it demonstrates and enforces the ideals of a limited number of individuals upon the rest of many, and immediately assumes that anyone who may use these terms is doing so incorrectly or using them as a means of insult.
In fact, I would go as far as stating that this thread – by design – is toxic (yes, I went as far as to use the term); it not only promotes the removal of the liberty of promoting free speech of using terms which in it of themselves are not insulting and attempts to spread such ideology for no apparent reason, but also goes as far as trying to unite a mere portion of players to rebel against their use for what is really an undetermined reason while also indicating an air of superiority and status to those which support the cause. The intent I believe is good, but it is not satisfying the desired condition to be met.
I promote using words as they are intended to be used, and detest slurs, but none of the these are part of a real vocabulary, and as such, all of them are synonymous with otherwise-unoffensive terms which even when used in their place would not breach the forum use agreement, and frankly if to be enforced, would indicate that people are taking actual offense to the term due to association with historical events which re-raise psychological trauma and reverberate those associated feelings. Simply, the aforementioned words at this point in history due to their generic use towards no particular group of individuals, do no qualify for such enforcement.
Chrispy’s post at that point was made before the OP edited their post to add in a clarification.
The post did not originally state that context would be used and some people inferred that a post would be ignored simply because one of the words was used.
Chrispy’s point about Folks was that the word is only offensive if used inappropriately and that several words in Guhracie’s post were not words that are always offensive (Chrispy did say in a later post that some of the words were always offensive).
Chrispy wasn’t saying that the word Folks is offensive and shouldn’t be used. It was just an example used to make a point.
This is unbelievably childish. You think because you post your ‘pledge’ people will suddenly follow you, like some sort of kindergarten teacher with the little knobs?
Sorry, but you should put some shrimp on your barbie.
This is unbelievably childish. You think because you post your ‘pledge’ people will suddenly follow you, like some sort of kindergarten teacher with the little knobs?
Sorry, but you should put some shrimp on your barbie.
Childish to state a position and encourage people to follow it? I could see someone saying it’s condescending (which I don’t believe) but childish?
Maybe you’re just too sensitive.
That is so very odd. What I would have considered childish is to engage in constant name calling and the like, not an effort to reduce such behavior. I guess, “you are a big fat meanie,” is not childish but, “hey guys lets try to avoid name calling,” is ?
That is so very odd. What I would have considered childish is to engage in constant name calling and the like, not an effort to reduce such behavior. I guess, “you are a big fat meanie,” is not childish but, “hey guys lets try to avoid name calling,” is ?
This post definitely wasn’t a “hey guys lets try to avoid name calling”. It was a “I make this pledge! Come, everyone, follow me on an adventure to not use these terms and use other, equally-insulting terms instead!”
That is so very odd. What I would have considered childish is to engage in constant name calling and the like, not an effort to reduce such behavior. I guess, “you are a big fat meanie,” is not childish but, “hey guys lets try to avoid name calling,” is ?
This post definitely wasn’t a “hey guys lets try to avoid name calling”. It was a “I make this pledge! Come, everyone, follow me on an adventure to not use these terms and use other, equally-insulting terms instead!”
Still not seeing your problem.
That is so very odd. What I would have considered childish is to engage in constant name calling and the like, not an effort to reduce such behavior. I guess, “you are a big fat meanie,” is not childish but, “hey guys lets try to avoid name calling,” is ?
This post definitely wasn’t a “hey guys lets try to avoid name calling”. It was a “I make this pledge! Come, everyone, follow me on an adventure to not use these terms and use other, equally-insulting terms instead!”
Afraid that I must respectfully disagree. The OP sugested that others add to the list negating concerns that originally listed slurs are meant to be replaced by others, states that the intention was to make the forum a more positive place ( as he has voiced negative opinions about the state of aspects of the game it seems pretty clear that he is referring to how posters treat each other and not that only positive opinions should be voiced), and requests that players engage in self moderation.
None of that is childish jn my opinion.
That is so very odd. What I would have considered childish is to engage in constant name calling and the like, not an effort to reduce such behavior. I guess, “you are a big fat meanie,” is not childish but, “hey guys lets try to avoid name calling,” is ?
This post definitely wasn’t a “hey guys lets try to avoid name calling”. It was a “I make this pledge! Come, everyone, follow me on an adventure to not use these terms and use other, equally-insulting terms instead!”
Afraid that I must respectfully disagree. The OP sugested that others add to the list negating concerns that originally listed slurs are meant to be replaced by others, states that the intention was to make the forum a more positive place ( as he has voiced negative opinions about the state of aspects of the game it seems pretty clear that he is referring to how posters treat each other and not that only positive opinions should be voiced), and requests that players engage in self moderation.
None of that is childish jn my opinion.
It is, and you know why? People will never self-moderate. That is a foolish thing to believe. If that were the case, then we wouldn’t have a need for moderators. People will always have biases and stances, some immutable. People express their concerns and distaste, and so do others react to those distastes…distastefully. It’s natural and normal, and WILL happen.
That is so very odd. What I would have considered childish is to engage in constant name calling and the like, not an effort to reduce such behavior. I guess, “you are a big fat meanie,” is not childish but, “hey guys lets try to avoid name calling,” is ?
This post definitely wasn’t a “hey guys lets try to avoid name calling”. It was a “I make this pledge! Come, everyone, follow me on an adventure to not use these terms and use other, equally-insulting terms instead!”
Afraid that I must respectfully disagree. The OP sugested that others add to the list negating concerns that originally listed slurs are meant to be replaced by others, states that the intention was to make the forum a more positive place ( as he has voiced negative opinions about the state of aspects of the game it seems pretty clear that he is referring to how posters treat each other and not that only positive opinions should be voiced), and requests that players engage in self moderation.
None of that is childish jn my opinion.
It is, and you know why? People will never self-moderate. That is a foolish thing to believe. If that were the case, then we wouldn’t have a need for moderators. People will always have biases and stances, some immutable. People express their concerns and distaste, and so do others react to those distastes…distastefully. It’s natural and normal, and WILL happen.
Optimism is not childish and people self-moderate all the time. Some people won’t, and some people will.
Sorry, but you should put some shrimp on your barbie.
do you have a barbie?
That is so very odd. What I would have considered childish is to engage in constant name calling and the like, not an effort to reduce such behavior. I guess, “you are a big fat meanie,” is not childish but, “hey guys lets try to avoid name calling,” is ?
This post definitely wasn’t a “hey guys lets try to avoid name calling”. It was a “I make this pledge! Come, everyone, follow me on an adventure to not use these terms and use other, equally-insulting terms instead!”
Afraid that I must respectfully disagree. The OP sugested that others add to the list negating concerns that originally listed slurs are meant to be replaced by others, states that the intention was to make the forum a more positive place ( as he has voiced negative opinions about the state of aspects of the game it seems pretty clear that he is referring to how posters treat each other and not that only positive opinions should be voiced), and requests that players engage in self moderation.
None of that is childish jn my opinion.
It is, and you know why? People will never self-moderate. That is a foolish thing to believe. If that were the case, then we wouldn’t have a need for moderators. People will always have biases and stances, some immutable. People express their concerns and distaste, and so do others react to those distastes…distastefully. It’s natural and normal, and WILL happen.
Some people do self moderate. Some peoe never will. A lot of people are somewhere in between. I never assumed that the OP honestly expected everyone to cut out the mudslinging. Pretty sure he stated otherwise.
Having a bias, a stance, etc doesnt mean that one has to engage in name calling and the like. Just because some people will doesnt mean that we should not make an effort to curb base behavior. There are a lot of very bad things that people do that will not likely ever go away completely, that doesnt mean we shouldnt make an effort.
This is really a very simple issue at its core. Derogatory terms are bad and there is no situation when its a good idea to have them.
When someone calls another person, a fanboy or a white knight what they’re saying is something like “dear fellow forum followers, this person has no objectivity and anything they say is completely wrong and should be disregarded” likewise when someone uses the term hater, troll etc what they’re saying is “People please disregard what this person is saying because they have a hidden agenda or simply like to set things on fire.”
How is this of benefit to anyone? its been said a thousand times but lets say it one more time. An MMO is a game targeted at a wide range of people and not at a specific group. If we want the game to truly improve every single opinion needs to be discussed and no one’s voice should be stifled just because you dont personally agree with what they’re saying. Like it or not thats what these terms actually do.
Some people claimed that freedom of speech is essentially if the right message is to be delivered to Arenanet but this too is misguided in my opinion. Thing is we’re all are human and we all have out own tolerance level. There is a limit of how much a person is willing to take and trust me having people tell everyone what you say cannot be trusted as you arent able to be objective doesnt make anyone happy and at some point that person is likely to just go away so they no longer get any more abuse.
You may think that’s a good thing, that the forum is better with less people posting negative stuff or defending features but truth be told all that does is provide less feedback, which in turn makes for a more restrictive game which in turn will make the game less attractive to more people.
Chrispy’s post at that point was made before the OP edited their post to add in a clarification.
The post did not originally state that context would be used and some people inferred that a post would be ignored simply because one of the words was used.
Chrispy’s point about Folks was that the word is only offensive if used inappropriately and that several words in Guhracie’s post were not words that are always offensive (Chrispy did say in a later post that some of the words were always offensive).
Chrispy wasn’t saying that the word Folks is offensive and shouldn’t be used. It was just an example used to make a point.
Definitely makes a lot more sense. I recall Chrispy posting with more… subtlety in the past, so it would certainly explain the obscenity of the post in regards to what the OP has now.
Chrispy’s post at that point was made before the OP edited their post to add in a clarification.
The post did not originally state that context would be used and some people inferred that a post would be ignored simply because one of the words was used.
Chrispy’s point about Folks was that the word is only offensive if used inappropriately and that several words in Guhracie’s post were not words that are always offensive (Chrispy did say in a later post that some of the words were always offensive).
Chrispy wasn’t saying that the word Folks is offensive and shouldn’t be used. It was just an example used to make a point.
Definitely makes a lot more sense. I recall Chrispy posting with more… subtlety in the past, so it would certainly explain the obscenity of the post in regards to what the OP has now.
I’d just like to note that I did always say that context would be used, it just wasn’t highlighted to the same degree it is now. My post always said that I’d disregard the words when they were used as slurs, which is pretty definitive context, I feel. That said, enough people took issue with it that a clarification was necessary, and that’s on me, and it’s fine. I’d rather be clear than misunderstood.
Am I the only one finding the negative responses to this thread ironic and telling at the same time?
Am I the only one finding the negative responses to this thread ironic and telling at the same time?
Yeah, I was thinking that while reading this thread. It’s almost like some of them feel threatened in some way.
Am I the only one finding the negative responses to this thread ironic and telling at the same time?
Yeah, I was thinking that while reading this thread. It’s almost like some of them feel threatened in some way.
“But.. but I need my slurs! It’s how I separate the outsiders/noobs/bads from my eliteness!” Or something. =P
I can understand having a passionate opinion, but kitten’s sake, fighting against civility like it’s a bad thing? Does not compute.
That is so very odd. What I would have considered childish is to engage in constant name calling and the like, not an effort to reduce such behavior. I guess, “you are a big fat meanie,” is not childish but, “hey guys lets try to avoid name calling,” is ?
This post definitely wasn’t a “hey guys lets try to avoid name calling”. It was a “I make this pledge! Come, everyone, follow me on an adventure to not use these terms and use other, equally-insulting terms instead!”
I don’t understand why people think this is a bad idea. The OP only suggested that like minded players, who have grown tired of this language in discussion threads simply not participate in those threads. Nothing more.
That is so very odd. What I would have considered childish is to engage in constant name calling and the like, not an effort to reduce such behavior. I guess, “you are a big fat meanie,” is not childish but, “hey guys lets try to avoid name calling,” is ?
This post definitely wasn’t a “hey guys lets try to avoid name calling”. It was a “I make this pledge! Come, everyone, follow me on an adventure to not use these terms and use other, equally-insulting terms instead!”
I don’t understand why people think this is a bad idea. The OP only suggested that like minded players, who have grown tired of this language in discussion threads simply not participate in those threads. Nothing more.
If that’s what you choose to do, then do it. You don’t need others validation for it. The only reason for a post like this is a call to action against words on a forum. You could have been ‘not participating in those threads’ this whole time! Isn’t it amazing? Self control is a good thing.
That is so very odd. What I would have considered childish is to engage in constant name calling and the like, not an effort to reduce such behavior. I guess, “you are a big fat meanie,” is not childish but, “hey guys lets try to avoid name calling,” is ?
This post definitely wasn’t a “hey guys lets try to avoid name calling”. It was a “I make this pledge! Come, everyone, follow me on an adventure to not use these terms and use other, equally-insulting terms instead!”
I don’t understand why people think this is a bad idea. The OP only suggested that like minded players, who have grown tired of this language in discussion threads simply not participate in those threads. Nothing more.
If that’s what you choose to do, then do it. You don’t need others validation for it. The only reason for a post like this is a call to action against words on a forum. You could have been ‘not participating in those threads’ this whole time! Isn’t it amazing? Self control is a good thing.
Actually it’s a call to lack of action, not a call to action. The OP is suggesting not responding. That’s quite a difference. OP said, “Henceforth, the following ad hominim attacks (and any variation thereof) will be ignored.”
That is so very odd. What I would have considered childish is to engage in constant name calling and the like, not an effort to reduce such behavior. I guess, “you are a big fat meanie,” is not childish but, “hey guys lets try to avoid name calling,” is ?
This post definitely wasn’t a “hey guys lets try to avoid name calling”. It was a “I make this pledge! Come, everyone, follow me on an adventure to not use these terms and use other, equally-insulting terms instead!”
I don’t understand why people think this is a bad idea. The OP only suggested that like minded players, who have grown tired of this language in discussion threads simply not participate in those threads. Nothing more.
The thing is the ones who will not follow this may use this as a sign that they are winning. That they have gotten enough attention and caused enough people to join in in response that other players feel the need to post threads like this.
It may embolden them to post the slurs or baits more often. Because obviously enough people react to warrant threads like this.
That’s the problem with threads like this. Despite the good intentions behind them.
I still think the OP could benefit from not giving mere words on a screen so much power.
Also, it might be a good idea for the OP to add ‘my’ to the beginning of this posts title, since this a personal pledge for him and him alone. Leaving it as it is now, the title can be misleading to some folks into thinking the OP is trying to get ArenaNet to infract forum accounts for using words like ‘white knight’ or ‘entitled’.
I wouldn’t make a pledge like this because I don’t find any of those words offensive at all, but if OP wants to then let him go right ahead. Hopefully one day OP wont be as easily offended as he is now and can enjoy the game and forums a little more. I find life to be much more pleasant when I don’t let every little thing get to me.
/empower
By outlawing criticism, Anet is one step closer to making these forums like communist Russia.
Don’t like the party? Get sent to Siberia (banned).
By outlawing criticism, Anet is one step closer to making these forums like communist Russia.
Don’t like the party? Get sent to Siberia (banned).
See what I mean, OP? Your post and the discussion it has spawned is confusing some people into thinking you want ArenaNet into taking action against players that use those words. Please add ‘My’ to the title of your post, for their sake at least.
By outlawing criticism, Anet is one step closer to making these forums like communist Russia.
Don’t like the party? Get sent to Siberia (banned).
outlawing criticism? Seriously?
1. Arenanet didnt propose this
2. Arenanet isnt implementing any measures discussed in this thread
3. This thread isn’t about stifling criticism in anyway. Calling people names isn’t a form of criticism neither towards the game nor arenanet. Calling people names is a form of attack on the individual that is intended at drowning their opinion. Ironically not agreeing with op is a lot closer to stifling criticism than not agreeing with him/her is.
Am I the only one finding the negative responses to this thread ironic and telling at the same time?
Yeah, I was thinking that while reading this thread. It’s almost like some of them feel threatened in some way.
People are defending their right to be kittens. Nothing to see here.
Am I the only one finding the negative responses to this thread ironic and telling at the same time?
Yeah, I was thinking that while reading this thread. It’s almost like some of them feel threatened in some way.
People are defending their right to be kittens. Nothing to see here.
There’s a saying: “I do not agree with what you’re saying, but I will fight for your right to say it”. Tolerance is a cornerstone of freedom. People complaining and using tired old arguments may be exhausting, but it should be tolerated.
Am I the only one finding the negative responses to this thread ironic and telling at the same time?
Yeah, I was thinking that while reading this thread. It’s almost like some of them feel threatened in some way.
People are defending their right to be kittens. Nothing to see here.
There’s a saying: “I do not agree with what you’re saying, but I will fight for your right to say it”. Tolerance is a cornerstone of freedom. People complaining and using tired old arguments may be exhausting, but it should be tolerated.
Tolerance isn’t really the cornerstone of freedom. People tolerate all sorts of stuff when they’re not free. It’s when you stop tolerating oppression that you become free.
The quote is a Voltaire quote by the way. “I may not agree with the words you say but I”ll defend with my life your right to say them."
I’m not sure that he was talking about abuse, however. I don’t think he’d defend a man’s right to verbally abuse a woman with his life.
Sometimes, context is everything.
As an aside…. and sorry for not being up-to-date with forum-speak but:
1) “white knight” is the new “fanboi”?
2) What does QQ mean?
Thanks.
Am I the only one finding the negative responses to this thread ironic and telling at the same time?
Yeah, I was thinking that while reading this thread. It’s almost like some of them feel threatened in some way.
People are defending their right to be kittens. Nothing to see here.
There’s a saying: “I do not agree with what you’re saying, but I will fight for your right to say it”. Tolerance is a cornerstone of freedom. People complaining and using tired old arguments may be exhausting, but it should be tolerated.
Lets make a most important distinction here that needs to be made. I do not agree with what you’re saying but i will fight for your right to say it. This should be sacred and no one is disagreeing with this. Case in point is this thread. This thread isnt trying to strifle speech its trying to protect it.
Think about it. When someone says ohh look white knights coming to anets rescue or when someone say dont feed the troll etc.. what is happening there? is that an opinion provided that we’re free to agree or disagree with? No its a passive aggressive way to stifle said people’s opinion. The person using this terms have no way of excluding the other party from expressing their opinion so they do the only thing they can do which is to try to discredit these people so that others will ignore the message they’re trying to convey.
Asking people to refrain from using terms such as fanboy, white knight, hater, troll, shill, whiners or other such terms is not stopping anyone from delivering their message. Everyone is still free to say what they enjoy from the game, what they find lacking, stuff they want included, stuff they want removed etc…
What we’re saying here is simply dont try to kill other’s people message by using terms that belittles them and their message at best or drives them away from the forum in the worst cases.
As an aside…. and sorry for not being up-to-date with forum-speak but:
1) “white knight” is the new “fanboi”?
2) What does QQ mean?Thanks.
yes essentially white knight is the new fanboi
and QQ is supposed to illustrate eyes with tears coming out which is essentially the new cry baby / whinner.
I read the first post and thought this was a happy thread.
But then…
As an aside…. and sorry for not being up-to-date with forum-speak but:
1) “white knight” is the new “fanboi”?
2) What does QQ mean?Thanks.
QQ. The old game Warcraft II, to exit you hit alt+q+q. So, If someone is rage quitting a PvP match because they are losing, that how they leave the game. People started making jokes about that, “oh, he qq’d” (he raged quit). Then the meaning spread from rage quit to being angry and complaining then to complaining and whining.
Hah! OK, never played WoW so thanks
I agree that declaring some people “white knights” and using that to discredit their opinion is a fine example of the “shill gambit” (http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Shill_gambit), a logical fallacy.
By outlawing criticism, Anet is one step closer to making these forums like communist Russia.
Don’t like the party? Get sent to Siberia (banned).
See what I mean, OP? Your post and the discussion it has spawned is confusing some people into thinking you want ArenaNet into taking action against players that use those words. Please add ‘My’ to the title of your post, for their sake at least.
I believe both of the above posts demonstrates a lack of reading comprehension more than anything. Trying to shade it as something else is more than a little dishonest.
There’s a saying that goes, “Squeaky wheel wants to get greased.” Honestly, if you feel personally offended by the OP intent, it says something more about you than the OP’s intention.
At no point did I feel offended, or that the OP was somehow trying to ‘silence’ my opinion through word choice or other semantic nonsense.
The thread is about civility.
The mere fact that droves of posters failed to see this simple fact not only boggles the mind, but speaks volume about their self-importance.
And on top of all that?
Gaile told us what the thread was about. Point blank. No beating around the bush. And STILL those same posters keep pounding the drums of their own ignorance.
If you don’t get it, fine. But please know this thread isn’t about YOU. It’s about US. The community.
And if one can’t tell the difference, that’s fine. The thread wasn’t meant for those posters to understand. Because the thread asks those of us, who do understand and know the difference, to be more mindful of what we say.
It’s as simple as that.
(edited by Ardenwolfe.8590)
As an aside…. and sorry for not being up-to-date with forum-speak but:
1) “white knight” is the new “fanboi”?
2) What does QQ mean?Thanks.
QQ. The old game Warcraft II, to exit you hit alt+q+q. So, If someone is rage quitting a PvP match because they are losing, that how they leave the game. People started making jokes about that, “oh, he qq’d” (he raged quit). Then the meaning spread from rage quit to being angry and complaining then to complaining and whining.
:D I learned something new today.
I still think the OP could benefit from not giving mere words on a screen so much power.
Sticks and Stones may break my bones, but words can never hurt me….though, words get people in trouble more than the sticks and stones.
Not affiliated with ArenaNet or NCSOFT. No support is provided.
All assets, page layout, visual style belong to ArenaNet and are used solely to replicate the original design and preserve the original look and feel.
Contact /u/e-scrape-artist on reddit if you encounter a bug.