Guild Wars 2

Before we start; ArenaNet has already commented on the topic of macros and instruments, and it’s nothing they will ban or suspend you for. This only applies to INSTRUMENTS.

This is for the players, the forum community to answer.

I got some of the instruments, and enjoy playing on them from time to time. I also use macros to let it play much harder songs when I just want to spread some music around.

Of course, when I use the macros I never claim to actually be playing them, and always tell people before or after that I used a macro for it to just spread some music.

So, what’s the view from the forum community? Absolutely hate such or are you fine with it?

I haven’t heard many songs from other players, it’s usually just someone pulling out their bell and spam the highest tone for a couple of seconds, so that’s why I decided to start using macros to spread some music just for fun, since that’s what the instruments are for, fun.

In theory, I have no issue with it as it’s only for music. Unfortunately, I can see more than a few players using this excuse to apply it to other uses. “I wasn’t hacking or botting, I was . . . um . . . playing this flute! See?” And, because it’s hard to actually observe said behavior at the time, it may be easier to outlaw them all.

Again, I’m not worried about the music aspect. More power to that. My fear is it could be used as a gateway for more nefarious behavior.

I think it was a mistake to ‘allow’ music macros, for it blurs the line between what is, and is not, acceptable. As noted above, and just as predicted, there are players commenting that ‘if this is allowed, so is, or should be, that’. This can and does cause confusion, and could be considered a ‘gateway’.

Who is to say those players always getting 600 in Bell Choir are not using macros? If that is ‘ok’, what will be ‘ok’ next?

To be clear, I’ve nothing against music macros…I just think it leads to more headache for Support and players that may get caught up in misinterpretations.

I see your point, and I agree that the thin line ArenaNet laid out can, and most likely will cause more “harm” for ArenaNet because people will claim that they have been playing music instead of actually botting.

I don’t see any problem with macros…anywhere in PvE. Who’s really going to lose? The monsters? Those who are inable to use macros? With adequate reward balancing, I don’t really see any form of “cheating” in any PvE kind of environment because the environment is just composed of a bunch of meaningless pixels. Competitive areas like PvP and WvW, on the other hand, should have absurd restrictions on macro policy because fairness is common denominator.

But ANet policy trumps my viewpoint, so even the monsters have a vote.

It’s not that the monsters will complain, it’s the players. Earlier in the game, we saw macros that were rampant with botting. Ranger trains in certain areas farming the monsters like mad.

These were gold-sellers using programs and macros to gain loot to later sell to players willing to pay real cash for this service.

That’s the bigger issue.

Absolutely hate. Playing the instruments is one of the few things that reflects well on the player them-self. Someone taking the time to work out and perform a song is great and awesome and multiple people organizing together is even more awesome.

All of that is diminished to nothing with a simple push of a button and suddenly you’re Beethoven.

There is zero difference between that and some sort of auto-jumping puzzle completion. You take something that requires a modicum of personal player skill, and completely destroy it.

One of the worst things ANet has ever done.

Anything that increases the likelihood that someone with a musical instrument ingame will be making more than noise is welcome.

I wish ArenaNet went and banned everyone who uses macros to play instruments, I really do.

Guild Wars 2 is a game, and there’s a lot to do in it. You can go on an adventure, kill monsters, gather materials, craft equipment… and one of the things you can do is play a musical instrument.

So a player decides to use a macro to play music. This means he or she is not doing anything for the total duration of the song. Well, alright, it seems relatively harmless since the player isn’t getting anything out of it, right?

Maybe that’s how you see it.

You could use macros the exact same way to run around and kill monsters indefinitely. Oh, but now that’s wrong because you’re getting something out of not playing the game. Or is it really different? Instead of making music happen, I’d be making virtual items happen. It’s not like I’m getting actually paid to slay monsters.

So does it really give an unfair advantage? Hardly. A robot killing monsters is not going to get items at a faster pace than an actual player. In fact, a player may be even more efficient at it.

Alright, so if two players relayed each other in killing monsters, 12 hours a day each, it wouldn’t be a problem because they’d actually be spending their time at the keyboard, and so their loot is deserved.

And for some reason, someone who’s practiced a musical instrument does not deserve to get better at it than someone who’s using a robot instead?

Let’s get real. If you’re going to let a robot play for you, you shouldn’t be playing at all. The only thing you can get out of the game is fun. Why cheat?

And so, I wish ArenaNet reinforced that message, I really do.

I do not prohibit macros. It’s very nice to play music. If not equip with instruments, why being deprived of joy?

I support the musical instruments macros!

But it would be nice to design in Game, make his playlist…

Rangelost.4857:

I wish ArenaNet went and banned everyone who uses macros to play instruments, I really do.

Guild Wars 2 is a game, and there’s a lot to do in it. You can go on an adventure, kill monsters, gather materials, craft equipment… and one of the things you can do is play a musical instrument.

So a player decides to use a macro to play music. This means he or she is not doing anything for the total duration of the song. Well, alright, it seems relatively harmless since the player isn’t getting anything out of it, right?

Maybe that’s how you see it.

You could use macros the exact same way to run around and kill monsters indefinitely. Oh, but now that’s wrong because you’re getting something out of not playing the game. Or is it really different? Instead of making music happen, I’d be making virtual items happen. It’s not like I’m getting actually paid to slay monsters.

So does it really give an unfair advantage? Hardly. A robot killing monsters is not going to get items at a faster pace than an actual player. In fact, a player may be even more efficient at it.

Alright, so if two players relayed each other in killing monsters, 12 hours a day each, it wouldn’t be a problem because they’d actually be spending their time at the keyboard, and so their loot is deserved.

And for some reason, someone who’s practiced a musical instrument does not deserve to get better at it than someone who’s using a robot instead?

Let’s get real. If you’re going to let a robot play for you, you shouldn’t be playing at all. The only thing you can get out of the game is fun. Why cheat?

And so, I wish ArenaNet reinforced that message, I really do.

The comparison between bot farming and musical instrument macros doesnt really work IMO.

1) you say that a bot is not more efficient than a player at killing mons but I think that if you consider the matter more closely you will recognize that players, sane ones at least, cannot farm 24 hours a day.

2) playing a musical instrument does not add materials or gold to a market that is linked to one of the game’s primary sources of revenue.

3) all the macros do is increase the number of people adding music to the game without otherwise affecting any form of balance within the game as a whole. The same cannot be said of bots and botters.

I was considering this very question and am torn. Playing an in game instrument well takes skill and I have reached a point where I assume a well played song is just a macro. I would be willing to put up with tone deaf, one note spammers if it meant I could come across a well played song and confidently respect the musician.

Imo, Arenanet et als stance on musical macros is ill advised and I hope it is not solely to prompt more sales of BLTP instruments.

Is there a definitive description from a staff member stickied somewhere? There is a growing assumption in map chat that macros are universally allowed. Perhaps Arenanet et al’s stance has been through a game of telephone.

Ashen.2907:

Rangelost.4857:

I wish ArenaNet went and banned everyone who uses macros to play instruments, I really do.

Guild Wars 2 is a game, and there’s a lot to do in it. You can go on an adventure, kill monsters, gather materials, craft equipment… and one of the things you can do is play a musical instrument.

So a player decides to use a macro to play music. This means he or she is not doing anything for the total duration of the song. Well, alright, it seems relatively harmless since the player isn’t getting anything out of it, right?

Maybe that’s how you see it.

You could use macros the exact same way to run around and kill monsters indefinitely. Oh, but now that’s wrong because you’re getting something out of not playing the game. Or is it really different? Instead of making music happen, I’d be making virtual items happen. It’s not like I’m getting actually paid to slay monsters.

So does it really give an unfair advantage? Hardly. A robot killing monsters is not going to get items at a faster pace than an actual player. In fact, a player may be even more efficient at it.

Alright, so if two players relayed each other in killing monsters, 12 hours a day each, it wouldn’t be a problem because they’d actually be spending their time at the keyboard, and so their loot is deserved.

And for some reason, someone who’s practiced a musical instrument does not deserve to get better at it than someone who’s using a robot instead?

Let’s get real. If you’re going to let a robot play for you, you shouldn’t be playing at all. The only thing you can get out of the game is fun. Why cheat?

And so, I wish ArenaNet reinforced that message, I really do.

The comparison between bot farming and musical instrument macros doesnt really work IMO.

1) you say that a bot is not more efficient than a player at killing mons but I think that if you consider the matter more closely you will recognize that players, sane ones at least, cannot farm 24 hours a day.

2) playing a musical instrument does not add materials or gold to a market that is linked to one of the game’s primary sources of revenue.

3) all the macros do is increase the number of people adding music to the game without otherwise affecting any form of balance within the game as a whole. The same cannot be said of bots and botters.

To add to what Ashen said, how does the ability to use music macros prohibit a player from getting better at playing the instruments sans macro?

That’s like saying because there are dictation software programs out there that that means that I can suddenly not become faster and more accurate with my typing skills. Even though I don’t use the dictation software.

Psientist.6437:

I was considering this very question and am torn. Playing an in game instrument well takes skill and I have reached a point where I assume a well played song is just a macro. I would be willing to put up with tone deaf, one note spammers if it meant I could come across a well played song and confidently respect the musician.

Imo, Arenanet et als stance on musical macros is ill advised and I hope it is not solely to prompt more sales of BLTP instruments.

Is there a definitive description from a staff member stickied somewhere? There is a growing assumption in map chat that macros are universally allowed. Perhaps Arenanet et al’s stance has been through a game of telephone.

This is the only post by ArenaNet employees that I know of that gives an ok to a macro. They only explicitly allow instrument playing macros. Gaile’s wording leaves other macros open to interpretation of the word advantage.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/archive/audio/Sad-truth-of-playing-the-ingame-instruments/first#post4546267

Ashen.2907:

1) you say that a bot is not more efficient than a player at killing mons but I think that if you consider the matter more closely you will recognize that players, sane ones at least, cannot farm 24 hours a day.

While players cannot be active at all time, they can overcome challenges far more easily and have a chance at better loot where bots may be limited by their AI.

Ashen.2907:

2) playing a musical instrument does not add materials or gold to a market that is linked to one of the game’s primary sources of revenue.

3) all the macros do is increase the number of people adding music to the game without otherwise affecting any form of balance within the game as a whole. The same cannot be said of bots and botters.

My point is that the most important aspect of a game is not its economy; it’s having fun playing it. If people stoop as low as using robots to replace themselves in a game, there is absolutely no reason why they should continue playing at all.

If players want to listen to and share music, audio streaming is far superior. There is no reason why a player should use a robot to automatically accomplish something in the game that was intended to be done manually.

Seera.5916:

To add to what Ashen said, how does the ability to use music macros prohibit a player from getting better at playing the instruments sans macro?

You do not get better at playing the guitar by listening to someone else play. You actually have to hold a guitar in your hands and play it yourself. Pretending to strum the strings while the music comes out of a hidden speaker is not practice. That’s what using macros is.

Rangelost.4857:

Ashen.2907:

1) you say that a bot is not more efficient than a player at killing mons but I think that if you consider the matter more closely you will recognize that players, sane ones at least, cannot farm 24 hours a day.

While players cannot be active at all time, they can overcome challenges far more easily and have a chance at better loot where bots may be limited by their AI.

Ashen.2907:

2) playing a musical instrument does not add materials or gold to a market that is linked to one of the game’s primary sources of revenue.

3) all the macros do is increase the number of people adding music to the game without otherwise affecting any form of balance within the game as a whole. The same cannot be said of bots and botters.

My point is that the most important aspect of a game is not its economy; it’s having fun playing it. If people stoop as low as using robots to replace themselves in a game, there is absolutely no reason why they should continue playing at all.

If players want to listen to and share music, audio streaming is far superior. There is no reason why a player should use a robot to automatically accomplish something in the game that was intended to be done manually.

Seera.5916:

To add to what Ashen said, how does the ability to use music macros prohibit a player from getting better at playing the instruments sans macro?

You do not get better at playing the guitar by listening to someone else play. You actually have to hold a guitar in your hands and play it yourself. Pretending to strum the strings while the music comes out of a hidden speaker is not practice. That’s what using macros is.

How is someone else choosing to use a macro to share a favored song, perhaps RPing a character that is supposed to be a skilled musician when the player is not, impacting yoir ability to have fun? They get to decide for themselves what is fun for them (within the rules of the game of course). They obviously went out of their way to get access to the macro and made a point to spend time using it in game. Maybe they have decided how they are going to have fun in the game.

As to the learning to play the guitar bit….I seriously doubt that is on many people’s list of reasons to take up MMO gaming as a hobby.

If playing an instrument is fun for you…..do so. No one is trying to make you use a macro. Play to your heart’s content. Have fun.

Cuddy.6247:

I don’t see any problem with macros…anywhere in PvE. Who’s really going to lose? The monsters? Those who are inable to use macros? With adequate reward balancing, I don’t really see any form of “cheating” in any PvE kind of environment because the environment is just composed of a bunch of meaningless pixels. Competitive areas like PvP and WvW, on the other hand, should have absurd restrictions on macro policy because fairness is common denominator.

But ANet policy trumps my viewpoint, so even the monsters have a vote.

Having competed for tags in events, I’d not like to see macros in PvE, because I don’t want to be in the situation of having to use them to be competitive.

Ashen.2907:

How is someone else choosing to use a macro to share a favored song, perhaps RPing a character that is supposed to be a skilled musician when the player is not, impacting yoir ability to have fun? They get to decide for themselves what is fun for them (within the rules of the game of course). They obviously went out of their way to get access to the macro and made a point to spend time using it in game. Maybe they have decided how they are going to have fun in the game.

How is someone else choosing to use a macro to do a jumping puzzle, perhaps RPing a character that is supposed to be a skilled acrobat when the player is not, impacting your ability to have fun? They get to decide for themselves what is fun for them (within the rules of the game of course). They obviously went out of their way to get access to the macro and made a point to spend time using it in game. Maybe they have decided how they are going to have fun in the game.

It doesn’t matter to me whether you are botting to gain an unfair advantage or not. Botting is an absolutely stupid thing to do in a game. Not only that, it’s also against the rules. While some moderators may be more lenient, the fact stands that using a macro to automate musical instruments in Guild Wars 2 is a strict violation of the Rules of Conduct of Guild Wars 2’s Terms of Use.

I expect either everyone to be treated equally, or the rules to be altered to explicitly allow this kind of behavior. And no, “this one guy said it was okay” does not override legal documentation.

Rangelost.4857:

You do not get better at playing the guitar by listening to someone else play. You actually have to hold a guitar in your hands and play it yourself. Pretending to strum the strings while the music comes out of a hidden speaker is not practice. That’s what using macros is.

If this was true for guitars (and everything) we would not have all the “tutorial” videos you can find on Youtube (and elsewhere) for learning/improving at guitar (and everything else).

Your inability to get better by watching someone/something else does not mean everyone has that inability.

It seems your values, circumstances, and standards are personal, and you simply want to apply them to everyone else.

Rangelost.4857:

Ashen.2907:

How is someone else choosing to use a macro to share a favored song, perhaps RPing a character that is supposed to be a skilled musician when the player is not, impacting yoir ability to have fun? They get to decide for themselves what is fun for them (within the rules of the game of course). They obviously went out of their way to get access to the macro and made a point to spend time using it in game. Maybe they have decided how they are going to have fun in the game.

How is someone else choosing to use a macro to do a jumping puzzle, perhaps RPing a character that is supposed to be a skilled acrobat when the player is not, impacting your ability to have fun? They get to decide for themselves what is fun for them (within the rules of the game of course). They obviously went out of their way to get access to the macro and made a point to spend time using it in game. Maybe they have decided how they are going to have fun in the game.

---

It doesn’t matter to me whether you are botting to gain an unfair advantage or not. Botting is an absolutely stupid thing to do in a game. Not only that, it’s also against the rules. While some moderators may be more lenient, the fact stands that using a macro to automate musical instruments in Guild Wars 2 is a strict violation of the Rules of Conduct of Guild Wars 2’s Terms of Use.

I expect either everyone to be treated equally, or the rules to be altered to explicitly allow this kind of behavior. And no, “this one guy said it was okay” does not override legal documentation.

I am not here complaining about people using macros to do jumping puzzles. You are complaining about people using macros to play instruments. Last I checked JP gave rewards that directly and indirectly affect other players.

I may be misremembering the terms of use but I thought it included a clause reserving the right to interpret or change implementation of individual clauses as they see fit without prior notification. Then again ToS are questionable as legal documents anyway.

Also we are all being treated equally. We all have permission to use macros for musical instruments but not for jumping puzzles.

The tunes are pleasant, but I do feel that players should actually use their own skill to play the instruments rather than just using macros. Still, it’s not a big enough deal for me to call for their removal.

I could not care less what you do with your musical bells, so long as I don’t have to listen to them, and I don’t.

If you want to spend your gaming time writing macros? Go nuts.

Dave.2536:

If this was true for guitars (and everything) we would not have all the “tutorial” videos you can find on Youtube (and elsewhere) for learning/improving at guitar (and everything else).

I did say listening to someone play, not watching an instructional video on how to play.

Ashen.2907:

Last I checked JP gave rewards that directly and indirectly affect other players.

So if players used macros to get the achievement, but not the reward chest, would it still be acceptable?

Ashen.2907:

I may be misremembering the terms of use but I thought it included a clause reserving the right to interpret or change implementation of individual clauses as they see fit without prior notification. Then again ToS are questionable as legal documents anyway.

You may not use any third-party program (such as a “bot”) in order to automate gameplay functions, including playing, chatting, interacting, or gathering gold or items within Guild Wars 2.

Guild Wars 2 Rules of Conduct

Ardenwolfe.8590:

It’s not that the monsters will complain, it’s the players. Earlier in the game, we saw macros that were rampant with botting. Ranger trains in certain areas farming the monsters like mad.

These were gold-sellers using programs and macros to gain loot to later sell to players willing to pay real cash for this service.

That’s the bigger issue.

What you’re describing is a bot. Macros, at least by my understanding of them, are a lot different and I only see them as being genuinely exploitable in directly competitive gameplay. I fail to see how multiple commands for a single keystroke can benefit a person’s JP abilities. It can effect combat, but even then…there’s no one to complain there except monsters and the people without macros.

Only in competition would such a philosophy be completely shifted because there have to be an initial set of rules to enforce a fair and legitimized outcome.

Rangelost.4857:

Ashen.2907:

I may be misremembering the terms of use but I thought it included a clause reserving the right to interpret or change implementation of individual clauses as they see fit without prior notification. Then again ToS are questionable as legal documents anyway.

You may not use any third-party program (such as a “bot”) in order to automate gameplay functions, including playing, chatting, interacting, or gathering gold or items within Guild Wars 2.

Guild Wars 2 Rules of Conduct

Despite our best efforts to detail the different sections with specific examples, there will always be areas that will ultimately be handled on a per incident basis by the Guild Wars 2 Customer Service Team. Even when not specified, NC Interactive, Inc. (“NCsoft”) and ArenaNet, Inc. (“ArenaNet”) have the sole right and final judgment of how to interpret and apply these rules and guidelines to any specific circumstance and situation, including proper punishment or exception.

You missed a section.

Couldn’t care any less – I always play with muted sound.

Rangelost.4857:

Dave.2536:

If this was true for guitars (and everything) we would not have all the “tutorial” videos you can find on Youtube (and elsewhere) for learning/improving at guitar (and everything else).

I did say listening to someone play, not watching an instructional video on how to play.

It doesn’t even have to be instructional. Stop latching to one single word and clearly missing the point.

Doing (or first doing) is not optimal for every person. Stop trying to speak for everyone now.

I don’t really care about music macros. I guess it’s better to hear an actual song rather than just mashed notes, but it doesn’t affect me enough to have a strong opinion.

I do wish we could multi-box an extra character so we could run 2 accounts from one control set.

Dave.2536:

Rangelost.4857:

Dave.2536:

If this was true for guitars (and everything) we would not have all the “tutorial” videos you can find on Youtube (and elsewhere) for learning/improving at guitar (and everything else).

I did say listening to someone play, not watching an instructional video on how to play.

It doesn’t even have to be instructional. Stop latching to one single word and clearly missing the point.

Doing (or first doing) is not optimal for every person. Stop trying to speak for everyone now.

Actually it generally does have to be instructional, or at least visible. You’re not going to know the frets or chords just by watching someone play the guitar…unless you’re like absurdly hyper observant.

Dave.2536:

It doesn’t even have to be instructional. Stop latching to one single word and clearly missing the point.

Doing (or first doing) is not optimal for every person. Stop trying to speak for everyone now.

Missing the point? It’s common sense. Let me reword.

You cannot become a musician if you never pick up and learn to play an instrument. A musician is someone who plays music. Listening to music doesn’t make you a musician, let alone a skilled one.

Yes, you can learn from studying how others do it. No, you cannot suddenly know how to play the guitar because you listened to a song on the radio that had a guitar in it.

Hopefully this clears up any confusion.

As for exceptions to the rule, as I said, some moderators may be more tolerant. Good for you. But I still strongly oppose the use of macros to automate any part of the game, no matter how trivial. Play the game yourself, or don’t at all.

Cuddy.6247:

Actually it generally does have to be instructional, or at least visible. You’re not going to know the frets or chords just by watching someone play the guitar…unless you’re like absurdly hyper observant.

And how many qualifiers was that just now?

Let’s go back to this game for a bit. I can learn a dungeon by watching someone else do it non-instructionally. I can get better in tPvP just by listening to a team’s Teamspeak chat, without even watching the match.

Learning (and improvement) generally do require experience, but people can get that experience in a variety of ways.

Rangelost.4857:

You cannot become a musician if you never pick up and learn to play an instrument.

This is a (presumably unintentional) strawman. We are not limited to becoming a musician (we can also improve as one). Nor are we limited to only one kind of learning (we can do other things to supplement the hands-on stuff).

The most successful learning (and improvement) generally involve multiple varieties of experience. Hands-on is only one variety.

Rangelost.4857:

But I still strongly oppose the use of macros to automate any part of the game, no matter how trivial. Play the game yourself, or don’t at all.

What about crafting? Should we remove the “craft all” button as it may automate the game too much? We can go to the restroom, tab out, eat a steak, brush our teeth, etc, while refining 2000 ores into ingots.

The point I’m trying to make here is that I don’t think your view is necessarily weak or wrong. I only think that of your argument and support

Rangelost.4857:

So if players used macros to get the achievement, but not the reward chest, would it still be acceptable?

Acceptable? Interesting question. I pointed out differences between one example and another. I still see a difference between the two. Or does playing an instrument affect your position on the AP leaderboard? Anet decided to make AP gain a semi-competitive aspect of the game. I personally don’t care for the idea of bots in competitive play.

You may not use any third-party program (such as a “bot”) in order to automate gameplay functions, including playing, chatting, interacting, or gathering gold or items within Guild Wars 2.

Guild Wars 2 Rules of Conduct[/quote]

Yup, questionable as a legal document and, if you look more closely, I am positive that you will find the clause I mentioned.

Interdict people having fun is very simplistic. Intolerance is perhaps the worst fault of the player.
Many friends RP uses macros just to make the atmosphere in taverns. I would not like the deletion a tool that allows you to insert the evenings!

Music Instruments should get simply better supported by Anet.
They should get improved with some kind of ABC System to make it simpler for people, that don’t play instruments also in real life, or have latency problems with playing the instruments so that they can stay in rhythm ect..

If they would improve the Music Instruments, that you can play with them more like in other comparable MMOs that have playable Music Instrument Systems ,like Mabinogi, Lord of the Rings Online

I want to see gettign something like this become true in GW2 too
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UuslKrlS8Rk

Groups of People playing together with their various different instruments songs, that actually do really sound very nice, cause they are all in rythm and have a clear and good melody.

PS: and that this then also with more MOVES, please into standing so stangnant around. An issue, that our instruments have currently too, that while playing them, our characters just repeat one and the same thing ad nauseum, make no moves.
I know you could be more creative here ^^ that when you play together, that the result also looks then like a band playign together and not like some digits just standing only around on ther place doing mostly nothing.

Ardenwolfe.8590:

In theory, I have no issue with it as it’s only for music. Unfortunately, I can see more than a few players using this excuse to apply it to other uses. “I wasn’t hacking or botting, I was . . . um . . . playing this flute! See?” And, because it’s hard to actually observe said behavior at the time, it may be easier to outlaw them all.

Again, I’m not worried about the music aspect. More power to that. My fear is it could be used as a gateway for more nefarious behavior.

There is no “hacking” or “botting” involved with using macros.

They should implement macros and song lists and notes etc in the game. This would be the solution. make a game procedure thet alows you to clik more notes when in Music mode.
Why dont they do it?

Personally I don’t care one way or another as I use and abuse the turn off musical instrument feature.

That being said a macro is automated gameplay, and regardless on what players feel is minor, Anet has finally say and change rules at a drop of a hat.

I strongly disagree with these and wish that Anet would reverse their decision to allow them and just add .abc support already!

.abcs are a type of file you’d have the song saved as in the GW2 folder, then be able to play them in game, so no external macros are needed.

Caedmon.6798:

There is no “hacking” or “botting” involved with using macros.

A macro is a bot. You start it off, it starts doing things for you. That’s where this blur starts to occur.

For myself, i don’treally like using macros on instruments. When i hear someone using a macro for it the song just songs just doesn’t really sounds nice to me because the notes are all same volume and that what should be normaly played a bit softer in background will be plaed along the main notes.
Other fact is that people hear it and think “wow he playes so good, i give him some money” and woops they get something for using a macro which isn’t allowed. It’s like i take my mp3 player go into the city and let my music play loud and people starting throw money in a box for me. Getting something for no effort.

People who have a talent for music stuff don’t need a macro, others shouldn’t buy instruments as they wouldn’t do in real life only if they just want to play around with it, but using macros shouldn’t be an option then.

I don’t see any problem with it. Playing instruments has no rewards associated with it whatsoever, and is purely a social activity.

Dave.2536:

Cuddy.6247:

Actually it generally does have to be instructional, or at least visible. You’re not going to know the frets or chords just by watching someone play the guitar…unless you’re like absurdly hyper observant.

And how many qualifiers was that just now?

Disingenuous. You’re just selecting terms without context. You won’t get better at a dungeon by just watching someone do the dungeon, unless you’re hyper observant. Watching a video isn’t going to teach you about fire fields or the proper order of skills. Just playing with skilled players in a dungeon isn’t going to teach you about these things…unless they’re instructing you on the subject. Same with PvP, you might learn some basic positioning ideas – but when it comes to the finesse you’ll have your kitten in the dirt because there are varying degrees and you won’t have the finesse of impromptu combat and tactical direction.

It’s really the same with this. You can watch someone play a guitar, but it won’t really change your finesse with the knowledge – likely frets and chords will still be so far above your level of understanding by just watching or listening to someone play that it’s moot.

But, like every situation, qualifiers exist because there are exceptions to the rules. These exceptions are far and few in between though and they certainly don’t make any significant chunk of the game’s population.

Anyone who thinks macros and botting don’t go hand-in-hand needs to do a little more research before they comment again.

I have instruments muted, I think that says enough

Playing an instrument manually versus let some macro press the keys for you is the same thing as if someone plays live on stage versus a playback is used and the artist only moves his mouth. You hear it, you feel the difference.

Both are valid. The playback still has to be arranged. If someone isn’t able to play the instrument manually but likes to give “playback” concerts instead, let him go ahead. There is plenty of room in the world, so there is space for everyone.

Anyone who is able to really play his instrument with his own hand has always some space for his performance, and he is recognized for his music. In the end, there is still a difference. The player who plays manually is sometimes making mistakes and his performances are never the same, and this makes him outstanding and unique. We go to concerts in real life because of this imperfectness.

The music of macro-users is not unique. So let everyone decide themselves what they are doing with their instruments. Just banning and forbidding using music-macros is not a solution. If someone enjoys making music this way, why stop him? He is not hurting anyone.

We listeners know the difference.

A-Ner should create an in-game music mode which will be activated once you have equiped a musical instrument. than all the rules valid for the general gameplay will be overwritten with the new Musical mode where you are aloded to press multiple keys at once and save songs and load saved ones in a gamebased music library.
We have TP which is working accross all servers, the music lybrary should be the same things.
Is it too much work for it? Make it an achievement based Gamemode and give people one free intrument and make a crafting profession which bulds instruments and all is ok.
Put minigames as the bellchoir notes ina window and people will do a “guitar hero” imitation whenver they feel good about it
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WJ22PgJWsEk

Rangelost.4857:

You do not get better at playing the guitar by listening to someone else play. You actually have to hold a guitar in your hands and play it yourself. Pretending to strum the strings while the music comes out of a hidden speaker is not practice. That’s what using macros is.

So you’re forced to use the macro to play the instruments now?! I sure didn’t get the memo with that when I got bells over the wintersday activities.

If you feel macros cheapen the experience don’t use it and only tip if you know they aren’t using macros.

Some people are only ever going to get so good or don’t want to spend what little time they have for GW2 getting better at playing music on the fake instruments. So they use macros. Yes, the lazy people who could get better if they actually did it won’t but hey, that’s their problem and not your problem.

And newsflash, some people are auditory learners. Meaning they learn best when they hear. So if they use a macro, they may learn what order it goes in and the timing better than using the equivalent to a music sheet.

I’m not affected in any way by people using macros for the instruments; I say let them keep with it. That being said, some part of me gets annoyed with the idea of not actually “playing” the instrument yourself; however, I also realize that annoyance is slightly irrational.

Ardenwolfe.8590:

Anyone who thinks macros and botting don’t go hand-in-hand needs to do a little more research before they comment again.

Mind explaining then? Because as I see it, ANet’s definition of a macro is multiple outputs for a single keystroke. That doesn’t sound very much like a bot, since a bot operates on automated keystrokes without human intervention.

This is how I feel about it.

Macroing an instrument in game does not gain any benefit over other players at all in any shape or form. Yes it allows this person to play a song more accurately, given the fact that the provided macro actually works.

If said player paid for their own instrument, they should be able to do what they want with it. Using a macro to play a song is quite alright with me. I don’t care who does it.

It’s much more pleasant to hear a song that is actually played right instead of someone spamming their notes not knowing what they are doing.

Sure there are some legit instrument players out there and you won’t know if its a macro or legit, but as the saying goes… What you don’t know won’t hurt you.

Cuddy.6247:

Mind explaining then? Because as I see it, ANet’s definition of a macro is multiple outputs for a single keystroke. That doesn’t sound very much like a bot, since a bot operates on automated keystrokes without human intervention.

Yes, I mind. You’ve already drawn your own conclusions. And I’ve learned, on this forum, trying to use facts and logic to prove a point, is an exercise in futility if said posters have already made up their minds. Correctly or incorrectly.

Please feel free to do further research on your own.

As far as the original topic, if ANet doesn’t have an issue with instruments-usage with macros, it’s a moot point. I don’t have an issue with it either. But, again, instrument usage isn’t the problem.

Cuddy.6247:

Mind explaining then? Because as I see it, ANet’s definition of a macro is multiple outputs for a single keystroke. That doesn’t sound very much like a bot, since a bot operates on automated keystrokes without human intervention.

A bot also requires a single keystroke to start. It’s not botting, it’s just a really long and complex macro.

When you add delays, looping or other advanced features to a macro, it’s no longer just a simple keystroke macro and it becomes closer to a bot. The only difference being macros are not intelligent by themselves. If you use a macro to use an ability on a loop and park your character at an active event, that is considered botting and so is simply using autocast or pets to create the same effect.