Guild Wars 2

“The purpose of this program is to invite highly engaged community members to serve as volunteer “Forum Specialists” within their area of expertise. As specialists, these volunteers will answer questions in a player-to-player (unofficial) sense, flag posts in breach of the Forum Code of Conduct, and coalesce and transmit player feedback to the ArenaNet Forum Communications Team.”

In other words: they will be forum moderators sans the ability to take action, but you can darn well bet that once they say something, Anet will blindly take their word.

Anet seems to be trying to create their own version of Eve’s CSM, sans the yearly trips to Iceland, but they are going all in to give obscene amounts of power to individuals that no-one with a negative opinion of anything in the game can possibly trust to be unbiased.

Really, I think that this needs to be modified.

“The purpose of this program is to invite highly engaged community members to serve as volunteer “Forum Specialists” within their area of expertise. As specialists, these volunteers will answer questions in a player-to-player (unofficial) sense, and coalesce and transmit player feedback to the ArenaNet Forum Communications Team.”

Leaving out the flag posts in breach of the Forum Code of Conduct, as it’s this part that’s getting people riled up. Since everyone can flag posts, then emphasizing it as something they can do implies they have special powers there or that their flags will be given special attention. I don’t think there would have been near the amount of controversy if that statement wasn’t there implying that they have moderating powers.

Astral Projections.7320:

sniped for brevity

Yes, that is part that concerns me, but I have to state my position as being very concerned about the whole process of the FS bringing things to the attention of Anet when it comes to suggestions, etc.
There are hundreds if not thousands of ideas that flow through this forum on how the game can be made better, and the sheer volume does show a need for condensing it, but I do not believe that having potentially biased non-employees doing the collating is the proper path.
Let’s take a non-issue example (something that has already been done): If there was a small group in the community that felt the game could be improved by removing the fees associated with armor repair, they would never have their voice heard if the reigning Forum Specialists had the whole “suck it up” attitude. They have no motivation what ever to say “hey Anet, while I categorically disagree with these people, I think they have a valid suggestion.”

*_edit: a side note. This whole Forum Specialist thing seems more like Arenanet is trying to avoid hiring more employees._

Neural.1824:

Astral Projections.7320:

sniped for brevity

Yes, that is part that concerns me, but I have to state my position as being very concerned about the whole process of the FS bringing things to the attention of Anet when it comes to suggestions, etc.
There are hundreds if not thousands of ideas that flow through this forum on how the game can be made better, and the sheer volume does show a need for condensing it, but I do not believe that having potentially biased non-employees doing the collating is the proper path.
Let’s take a non-issue example (something that has already been done): If there was a small group in the community that felt the game could be improved by removing the fees associated with armor repair, they would never have their voice heard if the reigning Forum Specialists had the whole “suck it up” attitude. They have no motivation what ever to say “hey Anet, while I categorically disagree with these people, I think they have a valid suggestion.”

*_edit: a side note. This whole Forum Specialist thing seems more like Arenanet is trying to avoid hiring more employees._

There are supposed to be 25 at a time. There is no reason to believe that the 25 people will all hold the same opinions about any subject nor are they barred from collecting and sending off ideas outside their specialty.

As to the part about disagreeing and not sending off information they think is valid, 2 things.
1) the agreement they sign “I understand that this is a unique opportunity to play an important role in the advancement of Guild Wars 2, and it is my responsibility to act with integrity and to the benefit of the player community as a whole.”
2) ANet will still be reading the forums. If they catch them not passing on valid information, how long do you think they will keep their position? " I understand that being a part of the program is a privilege that can be revoked at any time for any reason."

Gaile Gray.6029:

Astral Projections.7320:

Is there really any reason to make public who the forum specialist are since they mostly are there to report back to ANet? I don’t see why someone needs a tag for that. Having a tag opens up possibilities of them being constantly harassed about being white knights and ANet toadies. Imo, it would be better not to have people publicly labeled as being “semi official” when they have no official function other than collate information and report or linking official posts (which anyone can do).

That is a really thought-provoking comment!

What do others feel about this? I’m very interested in feedback on the subject of making specialists public or not.

I absolutely agree. Not only for the reasons mentioned above, but also because people will behave, react, and communicate differently with someone who has any sort of official or authentic tag.

It’s part of social conditioning that people go through as a normal part of life. Even without actual authority, there would still be a small sense of authority attributed to anyone who has a tag, and that can lead to a whole different can of worms.

For similar and additional reasons, I feel these volunteers would be able to fill their roles better without the additional complications that would come from giving them a special designation/title/tag/whatever that calls them out as being something ‘different’.

I haven’t been around for a while and I’m confused. What’s this about Forum Specialists?

Windu The Forbidden One.6045:

I haven’t been around for a while and I’m confused. What’s this about Forum Specialists?

Welcome back!!

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/info/news/Guild-Wars-2-Forum-Specialists-Program/first#post4600059

This should give you the information you are looking for.

Gaile Gray.6029:

Astral Projections.7320:

Is there really any reason to make public who the forum specialist are since they mostly are there to report back to ANet? I don’t see why someone needs a tag for that. Having a tag opens up possibilities of them being constantly harassed about being white knights and ANet toadies. Imo, it would be better not to have people publicly labeled as being “semi official” when they have no official function other than collate information and report or linking official posts (which anyone can do).

That is a really thought-provoking comment!

What do others feel about this? I’m very interested in feedback on the subject of making specialists public or not.

This is a very good idea, no need to point out who the people are. All that will do is attract attention and instant labeling.

Really looking forward to this idea, would be great to come to the forums and not have all the negative non constructive posts that are seen on a daily basis.

I’m wondering…how will having Forum Specialists curb ‘negative, non-constructive posts’?
Are you implying they will have some special power (conveyed by their mere existence…or some other way) to cause posters to only create positive, constructive posts?

Because I don’t. I think the vitriol, when present, will just be aimed at ‘Forum Specialists’, whether the poster is, in fact, a Forum Specialist or not.

Zypher.7609:

Gaile Gray.6029:

Astral Projections.7320:

Is there really any reason to make public who the forum specialist are since they mostly are there to report back to ANet? I don’t see why someone needs a tag for that. Having a tag opens up possibilities of them being constantly harassed about being white knights and ANet toadies. Imo, it would be better not to have people publicly labeled as being “semi official” when they have no official function other than collate information and report or linking official posts (which anyone can do).

That is a really thought-provoking comment!

What do others feel about this? I’m very interested in feedback on the subject of making specialists public or not.

This is a very good idea, no need to point out who the people are. All that will do is attract attention and instant labeling.

Really looking forward to this idea, would be great to come to the forums and not have all the negative non constructive posts that are seen on a daily basis.

I disagree completely. If they want to hire (free) lackeys, they should be public. To not have them public invites the kind of secret police forum moderation Anet is already accused of. I honestly don’t have any faith in the system proposed. They are simply to be the corp of Yes Men desired to send people to stickied links and report dissenting opinions. Even should they wish to help, they are forbidden from saying they even can by the very rules of the program “Forum Specialists may make no promises—expressed or implied—about the relaying of information, neither that it will be relayed nor that it has been relayed in the past.”.

As for them not specifically being moderators, all I see is that they hand it off to be rubber-stamped by the “official mod” and not looked into with any true amount of discretion. Anet isn’t known for their fair handling of topics not in agreement with the official path of the game.

Being harassed or punished by the player base is a risk they need to be willing to take. If not to keep them more honest/loyal to the players, then to have them be shunned by the player-base when the unwaveringly defend the actions of Anet, despite the entire community saying Whiskey Tango Foxtrot. (see commander tag or other recent PR fiasco). Legitimate harassment, such as threats of violence, can easily be dealt with via normal ban methods, and serves a service to the general community as well for them to act as lightning rods by being the public face.

Adding the addendum about them not being moderators won’t stop people from believing that they don’t have some sort of cozy relationship with the moderators.

Imo this belief is linked to 2 things.
1) The name itself: Forum Specialist
2) the part in the statement about them flagging posts.

The name sounds too important for what they do. Obviously they need some sort of name, for internal use if nothing else. I suggest the name be changed to something else more informal sounding, something dull and innocuous. Information Gatherer perhaps for the internal ANet name for the group, and that they are either not identified to the rest of us or they have pdavis’ suggestion of an individual tag like WvW Specialist or Lore Specialist.

Again I suggest you take out the part where they can flag posts. You can say till you’re blue in the face that it doesn’t mean they have moderator powers or have a cozy relationship withs mods. Once people read that statement, some will jump to conclusions and refuse to believe anything else. They are going to think, why does it say they can do it if it’s not something special to their position. I believe that leaving that statement in will cause endless rounds of accusations about Forum Specialist reporting them to mods. And the problem is, there will be no way to prove them wrong if that’s what they believe. Linking the addendum will be useless.

It’s likely already too late. It’s well-known how long the forum can hold onto a belief. Once introduced, it is almost impossible to dispel. Much like the Trait Revamp being part of the NPE.

Sigh.

Gaile Gray.6029:

Neural — Any report from a specialist will be reviewed like a report from any forum member. It will not be weighted “because s/he said so.”

This is, even idealistically, false, no matter what your intentions are currently. A professional, even minded/tempered person, no matter what emphasis you place on them, should, indeed have weight. I’d bet 1 billion dollars (if i had it) everyone that reads the forums at Arena has biases and weighs one person against another. It’s completely engrained into our brains (accept maybe John Smith, he might actually be “The Matrix”) :P… Teasing of course. I’ve run communities for almost 20 years, that’s how it is, that’s why it works, business or not.

As a matter of fact, these people should indeed have some weight. They are giving the team their time, free of charge. If they are “just like any other random poster”, what exactly is the point of being a specialist? Why not just read the forums yourselves and apply your own weight? Doesn’t that feel like a kick in the pants to people that actually apply?

I really hate to be a stickler, i really do and no matter what negative feedback i give, i really do care about the people that play the game as well as the hard work that goes into making it. But, bottom line is this (and it’s a common story) is of putting the cart before the horse. This forum needs serious work, it need functionality that can actually make a position like this obsolete. The company shouldn’t be asking for volunteers, they should go to those people they deem are worthy and ask them to handle x,y,z if they wish. Many would feel privileged to aid in the game they care about. Yet, here we are in a parade of hats, some really tall, giving you feedback, which a good wind might actually knock over if presented with one.

It’s the way of volunteer work too, sometimes you get one or two great people and the rest are actually more trouble than they are worth, but regardless, they should have some sort of weight, based on merit, based on quality, based on bias. If not, it’s just a dog and pony show.

Astral Projections.7320:

Adding the addendum about them not being moderators won’t stop people from believing that they don’t have some sort of cozy relationship with the moderators.

Imo this belief is linked to 2 things.
1) The name itself: Forum Specialist
2) the part in the statement about them flagging posts.

The name sounds too important for what they do. Obviously they need some sort of name, for internal use if nothing else. I suggest the name be changed to something else more informal sounding, something dull and innocuous. Information Gatherer perhaps for the internal ANet name for the group, and that they are either not identified to the rest of us or they have pdavis’ suggestion of an individual tag like WvW Specialist or Lore Specialist.

Again I suggest you take out the part where they can flag posts. You can say till you’re blue in the face that it doesn’t mean they have moderator powers or have a cozy relationship withs mods. Once people read that statement, some will jump to conclusions and refuse to believe anything else. They are going to think, why does it say they can do it if it’s not something special to their position. I believe that leaving that statement in will cause endless rounds of accusations about Forum Specialist reporting them to mods. And the problem is, there will be no way to prove them wrong if that’s what they believe. Linking the addendum will be useless.

There is no counter balance here, you’re basically saying the same thing as Gaile and i personally believe, that they jumped onto something that’s going to do more harm than good. At the very least having private folks (maybe with fresh accounts in game) would mean something. But, right now, there is no way i’d jump in front of this freight train, even if i was superman, since it’s fully loaded with cryptonite.

BTW, anyone can flag posts… I’m still very certain why this is a thing, people thinking (rightly) a specialist has more weight than “any other poster”. It’s common sense.

The point, as i understand it, is to take the weight off sifting through the forums for feedback, which is fine, but what is the cost? To players, to volunteers, to the team? I’m all for divvying up the load, but doing it publicly is like pointing out the witch at a witch hunt.

pdavis.8031:

Windu The Forbidden One.6045:

I haven’t been around for a while and I’m confused. What’s this about Forum Specialists?

Welcome back!!

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/info/news/Guild-Wars-2-Forum-Specialists-Program/first#post4600059

This should give you the information you are looking for.

Hmm, somehow this concerns me. The fact the suggestion to make them incognito makes me even more concerned.

Having secret police running around the forum seems.. weird.

Except they aren’t “police.” They are data collators with no power to do Bad Things to other forum-goers. Though they are expected to be active in forum discussion, the focus is on them sharing their expertise, not telling others what to think or post.

At least that’s how I read the position description.

None of which will save them from witch hunts if the community decides to be nasty to them. So, Community. Can we try to remember that an FS is just a player who’s spent some time really learning the game and been generous enough to donate his or her time and effort to helping the devs hear what the other players are saying? Can we try to remain mature and kind? Being nice gives you less ulcers, after all, so it’s for your own health’s sake!

Gaile Gray.6029:

Astral Projections.7320:

• I suggest the name be changed to something else more informal sounding, something dull and innocuous.
• Again I suggest you take out the part where they can flag posts.

With all due respect, the document is not subject to input or revision. What we do with the program is something we can discuss, but the document as present in News and Announcements stands, as it has been reviewed by Legal and accepted by the company directors.

munkiman — the forums need work, no doubt about it. We’re actively reviewing our options in relation to software. That does not eliminate the option of offering this program, however, as functionality is a different topic than a volunteer program.

No, it’s not, if you think so you’re not thinking broad scope. This is entirely a position that makes up for lack of functional feedback and sorting of ideas/topics. I know this is a job you do, maybe even solely, but you do realize, what you are asking for could very well be a full time job?

Please put yourself in our shoes, we rightly don’t actually know what’s expected of us (the royal us/we). We don’t want to be criticized for every post or labeled as Arena spies, yet this is still a thing you’re asking for feedback on? I’m sure you have applicants, many i’d bet, but some of us are kind of rational, we should be able to decide if spending this kind of time is worth it.

I get the lack of communication, it’s because it’s horrible, it’s because it’s PR speak. I really do appreciate your position now Gaile, you are definitely a GWAMM, but i really just don’t know how anyone can think of players in that light. It’s actually pretty frustrating. Please tell people why they should do this?

I am of the opinion that they should have a generic tag for answering questions. Maybe “this section fs rep” or something. If they want to partake in discussions in an opinionated manner they should use their normal forum accounts.

munkiman.3068:

Please tell people why they should do this?

Because they want to. They want to take the responsibility for distilling opinions regarding their area of specialization and pass it along. They want to be asked questions about something they know a lot about. They want to show that players can indeed make a difference in the game.

That is why they should do this.

As for the “tag/seperate forum account/anonymous” question, my view is the best thing would be tags showing what their area of expertise is. This shows other players who they can ask if they have questions, and when the Specialist is not the person to ask (a dungeon specialist is not the person to ask if you have WvW questions). If a topic has little to nothing to do with their area of expertise, people know to just treat them the same as any other poster.

Donari.5237:

Except they aren’t “police.” They are data collators with no power to do Bad Things to other forum-goers. Though they are expected to be active in forum discussion, the focus is on them sharing their expertise, not telling others what to think or post.

At least that’s how I read the position description.

None of which will save them from witch hunts if the community decides to be nasty to them. So, Community. Can we try to remember that an FS is just a player who’s spent some time really learning the game and been generous enough to donate his or her time and effort to helping the devs hear what the other players are saying? Can we try to remain mature and kind? Being nice gives you less ulcers, after all, so it’s for your own health’s sake!

That’s the point really, why bother? Do we get some inside scoop? Even so, what value is it? So i know about new features and cool stuff in a game, so what?

I still don’t think the forum specialist should have a title. If your volunteers are truly invested in helping the forum and providing reports there is no reason to give them a title stating they are doing so. All a special title will do is target them. Additionally I don’t think you need forum specialists for the Account & Tech Support forum or the Bug Report forum. Those are two areas that Anet staff should be reviewing regularly without the assistance of a volunteer.

munkiman.3068:

I’m sure you have applicants, many i’d bet, but some of us are kind of rational, we should be able to decide if spending this kind of time is worth it.

I assume that if a person decided that it was not worth “spending this kind of time,” that person would… not apply to be a FS?

Further, if someone did apply and became an FS, if he later decided not to spend that kind of time at it, he could voluntarily exit the program. It’s not like they’re going to lock you in a small room with a cot, a desk and a computer.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

munkiman.3068:

Please tell people why they should do this?

Because they want to. They want to take the responsibility for distilling opinions regarding their area of specialization and pass it along. They want to be asked questions about something they know a lot about. They want to show that players can indeed make a difference in the game.

That is why they should do this.

Wanting to and getting something useful out of it are concepts that should have been taken into account before the announcement. And, why can’t you do this right now, without a title, without anything special?

The point of this feedback is whether or not these specialist should get something “special” on the forums… Least i thought that’s were it was going. Right this very second, if you are absolutely just like everyone else giving feedback (some very extensive), why do you need a title? What does it do FOR YOU? Does it enhance your resume? to be an unofficial volunteer?

I give feedback, i play the game randomly. is my feedback more or less important than yours? Assuming you were assigned a forum specialist? If so, Why? What makes you better at guardian/ele/necro/mesmer than me? Do you know the code? are you privy to changes?

JustTrogdor.7892:

I still don’t think the forum specialist should have a title. If your volunteers are truly invested in helping the forum and providing reports there is no reason to give them a title stating they are doing so. All a special title will do is target them. Additionally I don’t think you need forum specialists for the Account & Tech Support forum or the Bug Report forum. Those are two areas that Anet staff should be reviewing regularly without the assistance of a volunteer.

You’re asking for goodies, but why? Should they be anon? I seriously deal with plenty just one my server alone, you might not even know what the massive impact might be…

munkiman.3068:

JustTrogdor.7892:

I still don’t think the forum specialist should have a title. If your volunteers are truly invested in helping the forum and providing reports there is no reason to give them a title stating they are doing so. All a special title will do is target them. Additionally I don’t think you need forum specialists for the Account & Tech Support forum or the Bug Report forum. Those are two areas that Anet staff should be reviewing regularly without the assistance of a volunteer.

You’re asking for goodies, but why? Should they be anon? I seriously deal with plenty just one my server alone, you might not even know what the massive impact might be…

What?? I’m not asking for anything.

tolunart.2095:

munkiman.3068:

I’m sure you have applicants, many i’d bet, but some of us are kind of rational, we should be able to decide if spending this kind of time is worth it.

I assume that if a person decided that it was not worth “spending this kind of time,” that person would… not apply to be a FS?

Further, if someone did apply and became an FS, if he later decided not to spend that kind of time at it, he could voluntarily exit the program. It’s not like they’re going to lock you in a small room with a cot, a desk and a computer.

The question was “what kind of things Arena expected from a specialist” I mean come on there has to be some kind of expectations. Nothing is outlined in any of those posts. Sure you can exit, but why not be informed prior to signing up. Isn’t this an Arena flaw to begin with?

munkiman.3068:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

munkiman.3068:

Please tell people why they should do this?

Because they want to. They want to take the responsibility for distilling opinions regarding their area of specialization and pass it along. They want to be asked questions about something they know a lot about. They want to show that players can indeed make a difference in the game.

That is why they should do this.

Wanting to and getting something useful out of it are concepts that should have been taken into account before the announcement. And, why can’t you do this right now, without a title, without anything special?

The point of this feedback is whether or not these specialist should get something “special” on the forums… Least i thought that’s were it was going. Right this very second, if you are absolutely just like everyone else giving feedback (some very extensive), why do you need a title? What does it do FOR YOU? Does it enhance your resume? to be an unofficial volunteer?

I give feedback, i play the game randomly. is my feedback more or less important than yours? Assuming you were assigned a forum specialist? If so, Why? What makes you better at guardian/ele/necro/mesmer than me? Do you know the code? are you privy to changes?

Not sure what you’re going on about here… maybe a language/cultural difference, but generally the point of volunteering for something like this is to give something, not to get something. You volunteer because you want to help make the community better, to help others, not because you get a bribe or reward for volunteering.

JustTrogdor.7892:

munkiman.3068:

JustTrogdor.7892:

I still don’t think the forum specialist should have a title. If your volunteers are truly invested in helping the forum and providing reports there is no reason to give them a title stating they are doing so. All a special title will do is target them. Additionally I don’t think you need forum specialists for the Account & Tech Support forum or the Bug Report forum. Those are two areas that Anet staff should be reviewing regularly without the assistance of a volunteer.

You’re asking for goodies, but why? Should they be anon? I seriously deal with plenty just one my server alone, you might not even know what the massive impact might be…

What?? I’m not asking for anything.

Sorry i misread your post. I’m still asking though what anon does. I totally agree, i think that’s why i’m foggy on what these folks do. It’s a fine line to walk and i think they went with a 2X4 to drive home they are wanting to listen to players better using a program. I can almost hear the convo now.

Sorry though, i misread, totally my fault. Or maybe i just mis-qouted? Thanks for pointing it out though

munkiman.3068:

The question was “what kind of things Arena expected from a specialist” I mean come on there has to be some kind of expectations. Nothing is outlined in any of those posts. Sure you can exit, but why not be informed prior to signing up. Isn’t this an Arena flaw to begin with?

I’ve only skimmed over most of the posts in this thread, because frankly I’ve already considered and discarded the possibility of applying. But I had no problem understanding what being an FS involved or what is expected from them. Nothing is unclear, so I’m not sure why you are having trouble understanding it.

munkiman.3068:

Sorry i misread your post. I’m still asking though what anon does. I totally agree, i think that’s why i’m foggy on what these folks do. It’s a fine line to walk and i think they went with a 2X4 to drive home they are wanting to listen to players better using a program. I can almost hear the convo now.

Sorry though, i misread, totally my fault. Or maybe i just mis-qouted? Thanks for pointing it out though

No problem and for the record I’m totally against the entire forum specialist program. I’ve stated this several times but it appears it is going to happen anyway. The last thing this forum needs is a group of people running around feeling like what they say is more important because they have some special title. It will only cause a divide between regular forum members and the “special” forum members. That is why I suggest if Anet insists on going forward with this program they don’t give a special tag to their volunteers. If those that applied for the position are truly invested in helping a title should not matter to them. However, I imagine that many of the applicants volunteered specifically for the title by their name.

tolunart.2095:

munkiman.3068:

The question was “what kind of things Arena expected from a specialist” I mean come on there has to be some kind of expectations. Nothing is outlined in any of those posts. Sure you can exit, but why not be informed prior to signing up. Isn’t this an Arena flaw to begin with?

I’ve only skimmed over most of the posts in this thread, because frankly I’ve already considered and discarded the possibility of applying. But I had no problem understanding what being an FS involved or what is expected from them. Nothing is unclear, so I’m not sure why you are having trouble understanding it.

So, looking at it doesn’t explain time, it does explain what is expected. It be totally equal to i need a “forum admin”, great, now what?

People already dedicate time to this forum, that’s it…

JustTrogdor.7892:

munkiman.3068:

Sorry i misread your post. I’m still asking though what anon does. I totally agree, i think that’s why i’m foggy on what these folks do. It’s a fine line to walk and i think they went with a 2X4 to drive home they are wanting to listen to players better using a program. I can almost hear the convo now.

Sorry though, i misread, totally my fault. Or maybe i just mis-qouted? Thanks for pointing it out though

No problem and for the record I’m totally against the entire forum specialist program. I’ve stated this several times but it appears it is going to happen anyway. The last thing this forum needs is a group of people running around feeling like what they say is more important because they have some special title. It will only cause a divide between regular forum members and the “special” forum members. That is why I suggest if Anet insists on going forward with this program they don’t give a special tag to their volunteers. If those that applied for the position are truly invested in helping a title should not matter to them. However, I imagine that many of the applicants volunteered specifically for the title by their name.

Sorry, no i did misquote, i apologize. I’m on the same page.

munkiman.3068:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

munkiman.3068:

Please tell people why they should do this?

Because they want to. They want to take the responsibility for distilling opinions regarding their area of specialization and pass it along. They want to be asked questions about something they know a lot about. They want to show that players can indeed make a difference in the game.

That is why they should do this.

Wanting to and getting something useful out of it are concepts that should have been taken into account before the announcement. And, why can’t you do this right now, without a title, without anything special?

The point of this feedback is whether or not these specialist should get something “special” on the forums… Least i thought that’s were it was going. Right this very second, if you are absolutely just like everyone else giving feedback (some very extensive), why do you need a title? What does it do FOR YOU? Does it enhance your resume? to be an unofficial volunteer?

I give feedback, i play the game randomly. is my feedback more or less important than yours? Assuming you were assigned a forum specialist? If so, Why? What makes you better at guardian/ele/necro/mesmer than me? Do you know the code? are you privy to changes?

What does it do for me? Nothing. I never expected otherwise. What does it do for the community? Quite a bit. The main reason for this program is because there is an overwhelming number of posts being made daily with opinions and ideas being thrown about on how to improve the game. The Devs can’t possibly get to all of them; they have other work to do. Forum specialists can’t get to all of them either, but they will certainly notice and pass along ideas the Devs missed or simply couldn’t get to (profession forums, for example, rarely get reached it seems).

Right now, if a random player wanted to condense feedback and pass it on to the devs, there is very little chance that it would be noticed in a reasonable time frame due to how much of their time is spent on specific forums (such as this one, where threads move incredibly quickly).

For example, I’ve consolidated information before on the Necromancer forum into one topic, but in that case, it was a topic that the Devs stated in a stream that they wanted to discuss. We never actually had a red post, but they were specifically looking for that information, so the consolidation got noticed. However, there are a couple things right now that are major topics for Necromancers (and have been for months). We’re not even sure the Devs are aware of them because they aren’t specifically looking for that information. With a Necromancer specialist appointed, that person could relay those major topics directly to the Devs instead of hoping that they stumble onto the right post in the right thread. In this manner, the specialist (and by proxy, players) know that those topics are at least noticed by the Devs, even if nothing actually comes of them. It could be that some idea that the players feel is great turns out to not be so good because of other changes that will be made, so it doesn’t get acted upon.

The first step to solving a problem is knowing that there is one. The role of the FS is to help ANet know there is a problem.

munkiman.3068:

So, looking at it doesn’t explain time, it does explain what is expected. It be totally equal to i need a “forum admin”, great, now what?

People already dedicate time to this forum, that’s it…

An FS is not a paid employee, they can make no demands of his time because he is doing everything on a volunteer basis. But the act of applying to be an FS would imply that the person is willing to make at least some small investment of his time.

I’m sure I don’t have to recommend that you do not apply, you don’t seem to have a handle on this whole “volunteer” thing.

tolunart.2095:

I’ve only skimmed over most of the posts in this thread, because frankly I’ve already considered and discarded the possibility of applying. .

tolunart.2095:

I’m sure I don’t have to recommend that you do not apply, you don’t seem to have a handle on this whole “volunteer” thing.

It is a good thing you didn’t apply because this is the type of response we defiantly don’t need from the forum specialists with their special tags.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Vayne.8563:

But there’s no harm in getting input from here as well, is there?

. . . I’m cautious, but I’d say “yes, there can be”.

Getting input just means that. It doesn’t mean they have to act on it. More information is better than less information…unless you have information overload. Which is why more people scanning the forums for useful posts is probably beneficial in my opinion.

And to think I posed that as a rhetorical question. lol

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

munkiman.3068:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

munkiman.3068:

Please tell people why they should do this?

Because they want to. They want to take the responsibility for distilling opinions regarding their area of specialization and pass it along. They want to be asked questions about something they know a lot about. They want to show that players can indeed make a difference in the game.

That is why they should do this.

Wanting to and getting something useful out of it are concepts that should have been taken into account before the announcement. And, why can’t you do this right now, without a title, without anything special?

The point of this feedback is whether or not these specialist should get something “special” on the forums… Least i thought that’s were it was going. Right this very second, if you are absolutely just like everyone else giving feedback (some very extensive), why do you need a title? What does it do FOR YOU? Does it enhance your resume? to be an unofficial volunteer?

I give feedback, i play the game randomly. is my feedback more or less important than yours? Assuming you were assigned a forum specialist? If so, Why? What makes you better at guardian/ele/necro/mesmer than me? Do you know the code? are you privy to changes?

What does it do for me? Nothing. I never expected otherwise. What does it do for the community? Quite a bit. The main reason for this program is because there is an overwhelming number of posts being made daily with opinions and ideas being thrown about on how to improve the game. The Devs can’t possibly get to all of them; they have other work to do. Forum specialists can’t get to all of them either, but they will certainly notice and pass along ideas the Devs missed or simply couldn’t get to (profession forums, for example, rarely get reached it seems).

Right now, if a random player wanted to condense feedback and pass it on to the devs, there is very little chance that it would be noticed in a reasonable time frame due to how much of their time is spent on specific forums (such as this one, where threads move incredibly quickly).

For example, I’ve consolidated information before on the Necromancer forum into one topic, but in that case, it was a topic that the Devs stated in a stream that they wanted to discuss. We never actually had a red post, but they were specifically looking for that information, so the consolidation got noticed. However, there are a couple things right now that are major topics for Necromancers (and have been for months). We’re not even sure the Devs are aware of them because they aren’t specifically looking for that information. With a Necromancer specialist appointed, that person could relay those major topics directly to the Devs instead of hoping that they stumble onto the right post in the right thread.

That’s all great, I mean it, but what does this program provide for YOU that you aren’t already doing, you’re already giving your free-time? Does it give you insider info? Does it make you feel better? What is it? what makes you want to do it? Do you want to be a customer rep for video games? What is your ultimate goal, to make people feel happier? Totally fine, just asking. I’m a marter…

Look, everyone wants at least a benefit, especially giving up thier free time. Mine is getting to know people on my server, i don’t go out a lot, but i do get a nice feel knowing i know people and i’ve helped them in some way, either by proxy or by name. I have “people know me”, but they do, i’m fine with that for better or worse.

If this is your goal from a business standpoint, well than i dunno, it’s not very healthy. I know if i had to make money providing a social service, I’d be broke, and often am. If people are willing to just vent their time, with little to no benefit, well, i’m all for it, but something has GOT TO BE forefront in your mind as a plus.

JustTrogdor.7892:

tolunart.2095:

I’ve only skimmed over most of the posts in this thread, because frankly I’ve already considered and discarded the possibility of applying. .

tolunart.2095:

I’m sure I don’t have to recommend that you do not apply, you don’t seem to have a handle on this whole “volunteer” thing.

It is a good thing you didn’t apply because this is the type of response we defiantly don’t need from the forum specialists with their special tags.

I agree, which is pretty much the reason why I’m not interested in their special tags.

Vayne.8563:

And to think I posed that as a rhetorical question. lol

Rhetorical questions have always bothered me. If I ask a question, it’s because I have a question I want answered. If I already knew the answer, I’d make a statement instead, not a question. Know what I mean?

tolunart.2095:

munkiman.3068:

So, looking at it doesn’t explain time, it does explain what is expected. It be totally equal to i need a “forum admin”, great, now what?

People already dedicate time to this forum, that’s it…

An FS is not a paid employee, they can make no demands of his time because he is doing everything on a volunteer basis. But the act of applying to be an FS would imply that the person is willing to make at least some small investment of his time.

I’m sure I don’t have to recommend that you do not apply, you don’t seem to have a handle on this whole “volunteer” thing.

I do. actually.. I run a GW2 specific server that gives me ZERO, in financial benefit. I volunteer a ton of time, money and energy into a game.. So what? Well and it’s not about me getting special treatment, well it is, but because i care, because i want people to have a good, easy time. I give back, as much as i can, when i can, and when i’m passionate.

NO ONE, ever, anywhere, volunteers their time because they cannot justify it. It may be a total martyr cause, and that makes 100% sense to me, but at the end of the day, you are rewarded, even in the smallest, most profound amounts.

If anyone honestly believes they give their time without some sort of reward, some sort of personal benefit, I beg you to tell me how, it’s so natural to feel proud and to get responses that make you feel great about your effort, it’s like, just do the best for people you can, it’s ALWAYS rewarded, even if it’s 10 years later, or more.

Beating your head against the wall, will always end up with a headache. All i ask, is, are people that apply for this just beating their heads against a wall?

munkiman.3068:

tolunart.2095:

munkiman.3068:

So, looking at it doesn’t explain time, it does explain what is expected. It be totally equal to i need a “forum admin”, great, now what?

People already dedicate time to this forum, that’s it…

An FS is not a paid employee, they can make no demands of his time because he is doing everything on a volunteer basis. But the act of applying to be an FS would imply that the person is willing to make at least some small investment of his time.

I’m sure I don’t have to recommend that you do not apply, you don’t seem to have a handle on this whole “volunteer” thing.

I do. actually.. I run a GW2 specific server that gives me ZERO, in financial benefit. I volunteer a ton of time, money and energy into a game.. So what? Well and it’s not about me getting special treatment, well it is, but because i care, because i want people to have a good, easy time. I give back, as much as i can, when i can, and when i’m passionate.

NO ONE, ever, anywhere, volunteers their time because they cannot justify it. It may be a total martyr cause, and that makes 100% sense to me, but at the end of the day, you are rewarded, even in the smallest, most profound amounts.

If anyone honestly believes they give their time without some sort of reward, some sort of personal benefit, I beg you to tell me how, it’s so natural to feel proud and to get responses that make you feel great about your effort, it’s like, just do the best for people you can, it’s ALWAYS rewarded, even if it’s 10 years later, or more.

Beating your head against the wall, will always end up with a headache. All i ask, is, are people that apply for this just beating their heads against a wall?

Ah, but you’re generalizing that everyone is the same, that everyone expects some kind of reward for what ever it is they do. There are some people that do things for others just to do them, with ZERO expectations of any kind of reward for themselves. It might be hard to fathom that someone of a right mind would do for others without giving any thought of themselves, but there are plenty that do that. As for taking the time that might be needed to do this, what is time but something to be used and not put to waste before we die.

I think this thread is a pretty good indication of why this is not a good idea. Putting on a happy face and going ahead with it anyway? An even less good idea.

Anet guys, seriously, for the sake of your collective sanity, throw off the mind-forg’d manacles of whatever policy is driving this, and save yourselves — while you still can!

If there are parts of this that is set in stone before it is even implemented because lawyers, then that severely narrows the range of what we can suggest, even if it’s something that seems to be a particular problem in spite of being specifically clarified.

Well, moving on, as Trahearne would say (and hopefully not the next part where he says, “this won’t end well,”) we know we can suggest that they not have an tag that others can see, I’m not sure what else we can suggest. Hopefully someone else can think of something. :/

munkiman.3068:

tolunart.2095:

munkiman.3068:

So, looking at it doesn’t explain time, it does explain what is expected. It be totally equal to i need a “forum admin”, great, now what?

People already dedicate time to this forum, that’s it…

An FS is not a paid employee, they can make no demands of his time because he is doing everything on a volunteer basis. But the act of applying to be an FS would imply that the person is willing to make at least some small investment of his time.

I’m sure I don’t have to recommend that you do not apply, you don’t seem to have a handle on this whole “volunteer” thing.

I do. actually.. I run a GW2 specific server that gives me ZERO, in financial benefit. I volunteer a ton of time, money and energy into a game.. So what? Well and it’s not about me getting special treatment, well it is, but because i care, because i want people to have a good, easy time. I give back, as much as i can, when i can, and when i’m passionate.

NO ONE, ever, anywhere, volunteers their time because they cannot justify it. It may be a total martyr cause, and that makes 100% sense to me, but at the end of the day, you are rewarded, even in the smallest, most profound amounts.

If anyone honestly believes they give their time without some sort of reward, some sort of personal benefit, I beg you to tell me how, it’s so natural to feel proud and to get responses that make you feel great about your effort, it’s like, just do the best for people you can, it’s ALWAYS rewarded, even if it’s 10 years later, or more.

Beating your head against the wall, will always end up with a headache. All i ask, is, are people that apply for this just beating their heads against a wall?

Did it occur to you that the details and implications of the position might be the reward people are looking for? Knowing the Devs are getting people’s thoughts and ideas is a major step in having some of those thoughts and ideas actually get implemented.

Astral Projections.7320:

If there are parts of this that is set in stone before it is even implemented because lawyers, then that severely narrows the range of what we can suggest, even if it’s something that seems to be a particular problem in spite of being specifically clarified.

Well, moving on, as Trahearne would say (and hopefully not the next part where he says, “this won’t end well,”) we know we can suggest that they not have an tag that others can see, I’m not sure what else we can suggest. Hopefully someone else can think of something. :/

I think some people are confusing “expressing an opinion” with “making a decision.” We, the players, have no part in the decision-making process. The decisions have already been made and the plans are in motion. That doesn’t stop Anet from asking “what do you think of this?” and collecting feedback to be discussed later.

But no, the plans that have already been made are not going to be changed because a handful of players don’t like them.

tolunart.2095:

Vayne.8563:

And to think I posed that as a rhetorical question. lol

Rhetorical questions have always bothered me. If I ask a question, it’s because I have a question I want answered. If I already knew the answer, I’d make a statement instead, not a question. Know what I mean?

I do know what you mean. But sometimes we learn more from questions than statements. A statement is something you make and someone then has to agree or disagree with it. But a rhetorical question asks a person to draw their own conclusion and the speaker is assuming it will be there same as theirs.

A rhetorical question can lead to less automatic argument. Know what I mean? lol

Are you saying rhetorical questions don’t exist for the sole purpose of annoying the kitten out me? Mind blown.

tolunart.2095:

Astral Projections.7320:

If there are parts of this that is set in stone before it is even implemented because lawyers, then that severely narrows the range of what we can suggest, even if it’s something that seems to be a particular problem in spite of being specifically clarified.

Well, moving on, as Trahearne would say (and hopefully not the next part where he says, “this won’t end well,”) we know we can suggest that they not have an tag that others can see, I’m not sure what else we can suggest. Hopefully someone else can think of something. :/

I think some people are confusing “expressing an opinion” with “making a decision.” We, the players, have no part in the decision-making process. The decisions have already been made and the plans are in motion. That doesn’t stop Anet from asking “what do you think of this?” and collecting feedback to be discussed later.

But no, the plans that have already been made are not going to be changed because a handful of players don’t like them.

/shrug. It would have been nice before the start of the discussion to know the boundaries of it. I wouldn’t have bothered to suggest changes to the unchangeable. Since we can’t deflect future possible problems stemming from the language in the announcement then ANet might as well see if any occur and go from there.

Perhaps Gaile can suggest other areas that are open to change that she would like discussed.