Guild Wars 2

Yes, it is possibly that the forums MAY represent the community from a purely numerical perspective, but trying to gauge how the community feels about the game by the tone of the forums is a faulty argument.

Most posts in areas like “general forum” or in areas about specific elements (dungeons, wvw, etc) will probably be negative. That is to be expected. You dont call your cable company to tell them “great job. keep up the good work.” You call them when you have an issue.

Most people approach the forums the same way. There is nothing wrong with it – and it provides Anet valuable feedback, but, if the majority of posts are negative, it doesnt mean everyone hates the game.

And this isnt even taking into account that many of the negative posts are by the same small group of people.

you know what is a true representation of how people feel about GW2?

Quarterly reports. If people are spending money on GW2 that is all that matters.

People that camp the forums or play without spending any money have little impact on how well GW2 is doing.

Here are some statistics for you

http://poll.pollcode.com/ttb2am_result?v

Nevermore.5487:

Not sure, I think people come to forums only to whine

Funny you mention it by posting here.^^

No matter if forum-users are a majority or a minority those people who keep telling that forum-users are a minority which means “your opinion is worthless” tend to forget that they also belong to this minority and following their logic their opinion doesn’t count as well.^^

Edit: I don’t want to refer with this post to people who provide serious arguments, rather to those who pretend to know that the silent majority has exactely their opinion.

That’s some fancy mental gymnastics you got there OP.

Carry on with your delusions sir.

Pirlipat.2479:

Edit: I don’t want to refer with this post to people who provide serious arguments, rather to those who pretend to know that the silent majority has exactely their opinion.

It’s not that the silent majority has my opinion. It’s that the vocality of the minority should not be taken as an automatic indicator of the majority’s opinion. That’s the context where this usually comes up. Someone points to “all the posts,” as if to say “the entire player base has this concern.”

LordByron.8369:

Well now they already said they will upgrade level cap along with equipment making all your equipment just worthless

Do you have a source/link you can share for that (level cap being raised) so I can go read about it, I had not heard that so would be very interested in it (or even just a site or something to point me in the right direction to find it if you cannot find a specific link). Thanks.

Bluestone.7106:

LordByron.8369:

Well now they already said they will upgrade level cap along with equipment making all your equipment just worthless

Do you have a source/link you can share for that so I can go read about it, I had not heard that so would be very interested in it (or even just a site or something to point me in the right direction to find it if you cannot find a specific link). Thanks.

AMA

They likely represent a reasonable cross section, but people are more apt to posted when they are ticked off than when they are happy. If you see a negative thread with 10000 posts as a developer you should be taking it seriously.

The massive decline of server pops since FOTM was released, and yeah mines dropped from full to high, shows a lot of disatsified customers… whatever their reasons… and that the disention is somewhat correct.

JaironKalach.4938:

Bluestone.7106:

LordByron.8369:

Well now they already said they will upgrade level cap along with equipment making all your equipment just worthless

Do you have a source/link you can share for that so I can go read about it, I had not heard that so would be very interested in it (or even just a site or something to point me in the right direction to find it if you cannot find a specific link). Thanks.

AMA

Thank you I found it, where Mike-OBrien-ArenaNet says “we’ve always expected that we will someday raise the level cap in GW2.”

This is disappointing to me as I liked the constant level cap in GW1 and hate when it raises in other games. But that’s a topic for another thread I guess, just wanted to say TY for the link.

Mark Katzbach.9084:

In the strictest of terms, the number of people who post on the forums is a minority of the game population as a whole. The forums do provide a modest, self-selected sampling of the player population, but so do fansite forums, twitter and facebook.

Thanks for the response. Out of curiosity, for what purpose, in ArenaNet’s view, are these forums? Since you can get similar samplings from the aforementioned fansites, twitter, etc., I’m thinking perhaps ArenaNet has something else in mind?

Mark Katzbach.9084:

In the strictest of terms, the number of people who post on the forums is a minority of the game population as a whole. The forums do provide a modest, self-selected sampling of the player population, but so do fansite forums, twitter and facebook.

^^ All of which sites have numerous players complaining about the game…. Why cant you guys just take it from the players themselves…. Do you not think we hear other peoples opinions of the game while in party chat doing an instance/event/ect?

lets take some expamples from face book (theses posts are one after another..not scattered in different topics)

“Stephan Nitschmann: Really nice feature but I’m getting tired waiting for a better gold/gem balance. One month ago it was around 20 silver. Now it’s 136 and no end in sight. Seems like a hyperinflation. :-(
November 27 at 5:42pm · Like · 2

Nita Katriina Alexandra Vesa: Gems are way too expensive, though. Casual gamers have no way of generating enough in-game gold for gems at these prices, so the only way for them to get gems is with real-world money. In other words, it punishes casual gamers quite severely.
November 27 at 6:15pm · Like

Tim Penner What a waste of developer time!
November 27 at 6:28pm · Like · 2

Kevin Ip: Let’s have some new styles!
November 27 at 7:01pm via mobile · Like

Aj Maresh: maybe your playing the wrong game to be a casual gamer

Brian Premo: Crash Wars 2
November 20 at 3:14pm · Like · 3"

OH and did i mention 95% of gw2 twtter is just advertisments for stupid T-shirts and nerds that tell us about how their boyfriends started talking like a quaggan?

Johnson.4867:

Mark Katzbach.9084:

In the strictest of terms, the number of people who post on the forums is a minority of the game population as a whole. The forums do provide a modest, self-selected sampling of the player population, but so do fansite forums, twitter and facebook.

^^ All of which sites have numerous players complaining about the game…. Why cant you guys just take it from the players themselves…. Do you not think we hear other peoples opinions of the game while in party chat doing an instance/event/ect?

lets take some expamples from face book (theses posts are one after another..not scattered in different topics)

“Stephan Nitschmann: Really nice feature but I’m getting tired waiting for a better gold/gem balance. One month ago it was around 20 silver. Now it’s 136 and no end in sight. Seems like a hyperinflation. :-(
November 27 at 5:42pm · Like · 2

Nita Katriina Alexandra Vesa: Gems are way too expensive, though. Casual gamers have no way of generating enough in-game gold for gems at these prices, so the only way for them to get gems is with real-world money. In other words, it punishes casual gamers quite severely.
November 27 at 6:15pm · Like

Tim Penner What a waste of developer time!
November 27 at 6:28pm · Like · 2

Kevin Ip: Let’s have some new styles!
November 27 at 7:01pm via mobile · Like

Aj Maresh: maybe your playing the wrong game to be a casual gamer

Brian Premo: Crash Wars 2
November 20 at 3:14pm · Like · 3"

People who enjoy the game, don’t come out and complain about it. Therefore you don’t notice them.

Get it through your heads, the overall reception of guild wars 2 is positive, while the overall feedback is negative. Because people who have a negative opinion are more likely to bring up their real or perceived slights.

I like to think here at the forums we’re in our own petri dish. Of let’s say…bacteria. We can see how it (the posters) reacts to changes, but the results could be radically different in the outside world. Based on that, it can be surmised that currently-

- there are people that oppose the nerfs

- there are people that dislike the fractals

- there are people that generally disagree with some mechanic of the game, update or the entire game itself

and that’s just it. There’s no concrete numbers, just assumptions, estimations. It’s good that people use these forums to scream and let ANet know that they’re there – that they have a problem. But as others have said before me, the majority that don’t use these forums cannot be spoken for, but to me, the figures are meaningless. As long as there are people giving their opinions and letting ANet know they have these issues, it’s their obligation as the creators to fix it – or at least look at it.

And there we have the purpose of a forum. You don’t need to know the exact percentage.

@Ahlen

I’ve yet to meet one person that DIDN’T kitten about how something is wrong in this game….

like i said, i gotta listen to people bit#% about how something sucks in map chat, guild chat, party chat, while doing a dungeon, while farming, ect…

all I’m saying is there’s SOMETHING wrong with this game.

Ahlen.7591:

Johnson.4867:

Mark Katzbach.9084:

In the strictest of terms, the number of people who post on the forums is a minority of the game population as a whole. The forums do provide a modest, self-selected sampling of the player population, but so do fansite forums, twitter and facebook.

^^ All of which sites have numerous players complaining about the game…. Why cant you guys just take it from the players themselves…. Do you not think we hear other peoples opinions of the game while in party chat doing an instance/event/ect?

lets take some expamples from face book (theses posts are one after another..not scattered in different topics)

“Stephan Nitschmann: Really nice feature but I’m getting tired waiting for a better gold/gem balance. One month ago it was around 20 silver. Now it’s 136 and no end in sight. Seems like a hyperinflation. :-(
November 27 at 5:42pm · Like · 2

Nita Katriina Alexandra Vesa: Gems are way too expensive, though. Casual gamers have no way of generating enough in-game gold for gems at these prices, so the only way for them to get gems is with real-world money. In other words, it punishes casual gamers quite severely.
November 27 at 6:15pm · Like

Tim Penner What a waste of developer time!
November 27 at 6:28pm · Like · 2

Kevin Ip: Let’s have some new styles!
November 27 at 7:01pm via mobile · Like

Aj Maresh: maybe your playing the wrong game to be a casual gamer

Brian Premo: Crash Wars 2
November 20 at 3:14pm · Like · 3"

People who enjoy the game, don’t come out and complain about it. Therefore you don’t notice them.

Get it through your heads, the overall reception of guild wars 2 is positive, while the overall feedback is negative. Because people who have a negative opinion are more likely to bring up their real or perceived slights.

This is exactly like any other product or service. Negative opinions will always be voiced more often than positive opinions. It happens all the time, if you have a problem, you will complain. If you are not having any issues, you don’t say anything as you don’t tend to have the need to.

Johnson.4867:

@Ahlen

I’ve yet to meet one person that DIDN’T kitten about how something is wrong in this game….

We’ll, now you have. I don’t complain about this game. I just play it as is, and that’s it.

Johnson.4867:

@Ahlen

I’ve yet to meet one person that DIDN’T kitten about how something is wrong in this game….

like i said, i gotta listen to people bit#% about how something sucks in map chat, guild chat, party chat, while doing a dungeon, while farming, ect…

all I’m saying is there’s SOMETHING wrong with this game.

Hi, I am Bluestone. I have no complaints about the game right now, I didn’t start playing with preconceived ideas about how they should make their game, I started playing ready to see what they had done.

Now you have met someone who doesn’t kitten about the game. I spend a day every now and then trying to give a different perspective to people on the forums.

+1 when people voice out about actual bugs and gameplay inequalities.

+1 when people voice out about opinions

-1 when people voice out about opinions assuming factors they cannot count such as # of people playing and enjoying the game or vice versa, the # of people leaving and not liking the game

I don’t mind when people strongly feel for a particular update in gw2, but I dislike it when people say we feel this way or everyboday feels this way or the game is dying because I see no one

Mark Katzbach.9084:

Chuo.4238:

Mark Katzbach.9084:

In the strictest of terms, the number of people who post on the forums is a minority of the game population as a whole. The forums do provide a modest, self-selected sampling of the player population, but so do fansite forums, twitter and facebook.

Thanks for the response. Out of curiosity, for what purpose, in ArenaNet’s view, are these forums? Since you can get similar samplings from the aforementioned fansites, twitter, etc., I’m thinking perhaps ArenaNet has something else in mind?

First off, we definitely value feedback from the forums. Just because the forums don’t make up the majority, or the only sampling, does not mean we do not value your feedback.

Snip

Just because the majority doesn’t post on the forums doesn’t mean they don’t share the same views as those that do. It just means they don’t post. I do think our opinions are way to easily brushed aside. Instead of being like praise us for the game we made. It should be praise you for playing our game.

mavet.3047:

The plural of “math” is “math.” “Maths” is not a word. Just thought you should know

Actually every english-speaking country outside of NA says “maths”, not “math”. You know, since it’s “mathematic*s*” not “mathematic”.

Conner.4702:

Mark Katzbach.9084:

Chuo.4238:

Mark Katzbach.9084:

In the strictest of terms, the number of people who post on the forums is a minority of the game population as a whole. The forums do provide a modest, self-selected sampling of the player population, but so do fansite forums, twitter and facebook.

Thanks for the response. Out of curiosity, for what purpose, in ArenaNet’s view, are these forums? Since you can get similar samplings from the aforementioned fansites, twitter, etc., I’m thinking perhaps ArenaNet has something else in mind?

First off, we definitely value feedback from the forums. Just because the forums don’t make up the majority, or the only sampling, does not mean we do not value your feedback.

Snip

Just because the majority doesn’t post on the forums doesn’t mean they don’t share the same views as those that do. It just means they don’t post. I do think our opinions are way to easily brushed aside. Instead of being like praise us for the game we made. It should be praise you for playing our game.

It doesn’t mean they do agree with you either. And in no way does he say your opinions are “brushed aside” – please stop making things up.

Yes, we are a minority.

But no, we are not a vocal minority.
We are not a good measure of internal opinions either.
Not even an ingame survey would do, as there’s people who just don’t bother with them.

To make a good survey, you need a good statistical population, with good and balanced numbers of different kinds of people in relation to the actual numbers.

The subset of players that also frequent the forums isn’t directly related to anything else but “has time and bothers to check the forums”. so it can’t be used as reference to anything.
We can still voice our opinions, but ANet has to use other methods to corroborate them, like going undercover as players in servers, or checking game metrics the client sends to their servers.

thought i’d drop by and mention that ANet’s moderation policies are so strict that i just gave up on actively posting on the forums. now, the most i’ll do is report a bug, or create a topic regarding something that i consider in need of a drastic change.

so yeah, congratulations, you’re scaring away people that were legitimately interested in discussing the game actively by moderating them over every small thing, and then suspending them because they did too many small things (and weren’t even aware of it because most of the moderation messages never reach the moderated user).

now if you’ll excuse me, i’ll log out and go back to just checking the dev tracker. that’s the only way to go around this forum without a moderation.

Ahlen.7591:

Johnson.4867:

Mark Katzbach.9084:

In the strictest of terms, the number of people who post on the forums is a minority of the game population as a whole. The forums do provide a modest, self-selected sampling of the player population, but so do fansite forums, twitter and facebook.

^^ All of which sites have numerous players complaining about the game…. Why cant you guys just take it from the players themselves…. Do you not think we hear other peoples opinions of the game while in party chat doing an instance/event/ect?

lets take some expamples from face book (theses posts are one after another..not scattered in different topics)

“Stephan Nitschmann: Really nice feature but I’m getting tired waiting for a better gold/gem balance. One month ago it was around 20 silver. Now it’s 136 and no end in sight. Seems like a hyperinflation. :-(
November 27 at 5:42pm · Like · 2

Nita Katriina Alexandra Vesa: Gems are way too expensive, though. Casual gamers have no way of generating enough in-game gold for gems at these prices, so the only way for them to get gems is with real-world money. In other words, it punishes casual gamers quite severely.
November 27 at 6:15pm · Like

Tim Penner What a waste of developer time!
November 27 at 6:28pm · Like · 2

Kevin Ip: Let’s have some new styles!
November 27 at 7:01pm via mobile · Like

Aj Maresh: maybe your playing the wrong game to be a casual gamer

Brian Premo: Crash Wars 2
November 20 at 3:14pm · Like · 3"

People who enjoy the game, don’t come out and complain about it. Therefore you don’t notice them.

Get it through your heads, the overall reception of guild wars 2 is positive, while the overall feedback is negative. Because people who have a negative opinion are more likely to bring up their real or perceived slights.

This. Those of us who like the game are silent because we don’t have anything to whine about, and instead are playing our game in peace. Hence whiners appear as majority because whiny people are always the loudest.

If i have to say something, is that all this discussion about minority and majority is kinda childish.
We are a sample, and across the forum there are all type of players (just like politics poll) maybe we cant talk for the whole population, but players that go on forum rapresent a sample of the community voice.
Just for example, before the lost shore patch, the sample attitude was good, ok there was some whine thread, but always controlled, and always balanced by other players.

now if you look the reaction of the community after the patch you can see a large wave of hate,(that is still lasting) so the sample is reacting bad.
Ok forum users are a minority, but samples are exactly made for this purpose, monitoring a huge number, by the use of a minor number.

dude if i tell u from 3 milion sold accounts only 10k using the forums only hard core i have literly over 20 firends that playing this game and none of them even SAW the forums or care for them

mulch.2586:

2 million + accounts.

Fewer than 1 million forums users

Therefore a minority. Cuz that’s what it means.

Actually I would place the forum users at less then 500 thousand.

I have been playing MMOs since they were MUDs (20 years). When there were forums they were always less then those that just play the game.

That is why they are called the SILENT majority.

Those on the forums truly are in the minority and just need to accept it and not think they:

1) Speak for all

2) deserve to be listened to cause they are the “majority”

3) don’t need to research their assumption like this post.

I came from the silent majority and due to my long experience as a user and one of those that stayed silent and watched the minority of the forums destroy many games. I said I would not allow that to happen to this game. So I have joined the minority in the name of the true majority.

You OP do not speak for the majority.

You are in the minority.

Accept and move on

I don’t see any numbers proving that the forum sample size is adequate to represent the games users as a whole. For that matter most younger teenagers just play the game and don’t use forums that much, as they are usually not concerned with forums in anyway because they are not thinking at a higher level most of the time yet(developmentally).

I hate it when people make unsubstantiated general sweeping claims and try to pass it off as having intelligence.

Could you be any more vague? Could you?

How are you qualified to say how large of a sample you need, and you just can’t pick a random number of people to get a sample that means anything. Sampling is much more complicated than saying all the people who use forums are a viable sample, you are just showing how little you know in the ways of even a simple sample.

Gele.2048:

dude if i tell u from 3 milion sold accounts only 10k using the forums only hard core i have literly over 20 firends that playing this game and none of them even SAW the forums or care for them

is this relevant?
For the same reason, a lot of my friend have simply quit with the game without post on forum after the patch.
as i said we are a sample, and the forum reaction is statistically, the community reaction.

I don’t see any numbers proving that the forum sample size is adequate to represent the games users as a whole. For that matter most younger teenagers just play the game and don’t use forums that much, as they are usually not concerned with forums in anyway because they are not thinking at a higher level most of the time yet(developmentally).
I hate it when people make unsubstantiated general sweeping claims and try to pass it off as having intelligence.
Could you be any more vague? Could you?
How are you qualified to say how large of a sample you need, and you just can’t pick a random number of people to get a sample that means anything. Sampling is much more complicated than saying all the people who use forums are a viable sample, you are just showing how little you know in the ways of even a simple sample.

So whats the purpose of a forum?
I know how a sampling work, and thats why i talk.
Surely i dont know forum numbers, but no one know really, Anet included because they cant know with precision what the forum users think.
So take it easy and dont try to be the superman of the situation, im not saying that the forum is a perfect sample of the community, but its the sample the devs have.(with the fan sites, FB, twitter etc etc).

And this more correct then simply say:

• “dont listen them because they are a minority”
• “they dont talk for all”
• “they arent a perfect sample”

when the one that is speaking is a minority, in the minority.

Mark Katzbach.9084:

In the strictest of terms, the number of people who post on the forums is a minority of the game population as a whole. The forums do provide a modest, self-selected sampling of the player population, but so do fansite forums, twitter and facebook.

Thank you very much for responding to this thread as well as vindicating those like myself who have a long standing understanding of this industry

Nevermore.5487:

Ahlen.7591:

Get it through your heads, the overall reception of guild wars 2 is positive, while the overall feedback is negative. Because people who have a negative opinion are more likely to bring up their real or perceived slights.

This. Those of us who like the game are silent because we don’t have anything to whine about, and instead are playing our game in peace. Hence whiners appear as majority because whiny people are always the loudest.

Just because something isn’t negative, that doesn’t mean it’s positive. Except maybe in some people’s black and white world. Most people simply don’t care because GW2 is “just another game”.

Why do people whine then? ever ask yourself this question?

Wrong question. The argument sounds like the people that complain here are a vocal minority that doesn’t represent the community and everybody else doesn’t complain because they actually have the opposite opinion. But many people don’t complain because somebody already said what they said, they think it’s no use anyway or, most important, they simply don’t care. Just take a look at any election.

Stark.1350:

Conner.4702:

Mark Katzbach.9084:

Chuo.4238:

Mark Katzbach.9084:

In the strictest of terms, the number of people who post on the forums is a minority of the game population as a whole. The forums do provide a modest, self-selected sampling of the player population, but so do fansite forums, twitter and facebook.

Thanks for the response. Out of curiosity, for what purpose, in ArenaNet’s view, are these forums? Since you can get similar samplings from the aforementioned fansites, twitter, etc., I’m thinking perhaps ArenaNet has something else in mind?

First off, we definitely value feedback from the forums. Just because the forums don’t make up the majority, or the only sampling, does not mean we do not value your feedback.

Snip

Just because the majority doesn’t post on the forums doesn’t mean they don’t share the same views as those that do. It just means they don’t post. I do think our opinions are way to easily brushed aside. Instead of being like praise us for the game we made. It should be praise you for playing our game.

It doesn’t mean they do agree with you either. And in no way does he say your opinions are “brushed aside” – please stop making things up.

You clearly missed the point I was making. You can not know what people who don’t post feel about something. As they have not made it clear. People have been using the argument that people that don’t come to the forums and just play are happy with the way things are and that is what I was countering.
Also of course he doesn’t say they are brushed aside, but when a controversial patch it pushed through in spite of a massive out cry, than yes they do brush it aside. Why don’t you stop telling others to “stop making things up” as an argument. It is a non argument and only weakens your sides case.

There’s not need to be anal about the OP’s words choice. What (s)he meant is clearly that (s)he believes forums to be a statistically valid sample of the whole community and therefore to be relevant in determining the community’s reaction to any ArenaNet action.

You may rightfully agree or disagree with the OP but if you argue about the words choice you are wasting forum space and showing little reading comprehension skills.

And by the way I agree with her/him. It might not be the most accurate sample ever, but it surely gives a true enough idea of the community feelings that ArenaNet should take them seriously.

Conner.4702:

You clearly missed the point I was making. You can not know what people who don’t post feel about something. As they have not made it clear. People have been using the argument that people that don’t come to the forums and just play are happy with the way things are and that is what I was countering.
Also of course he doesn’t say they are brushed aside, but when a controversial patch it pushed through in spite of a massive out cry, than yes they do brush it aside. Why don’t you stop telling others to “stop making things up” as an argument. It is a non argument and only weakens your sides case.

It’s a double edge sword there. You can not know what developers who don’t post feel about something. And in a bigger extend are brushing things aside.

Even so, it’s obviously that either way you just feel like that you’re not heard.

Even MORE so, there are no sides. It’s an illusion made up in order to oversimplify arguments about a complex matter. Everyone wants to get heard. I fell that people that come here on these forums are wanting direct interaction with the developers who move at their whims if the player base says so. (bad idea, very bad idea)

Yes they are the minority.
Sampling works because you hit a neutral demographic in a neutral setting and ask them questions. Surveys call your home or send forms in the mail or stand in front of heavy traffic places like grocery stores and ask everyone.
Forums are not accurate because it takes in opinions only from those who are motivated enough to find a way to seek out a way to communicate.
If we were to believe this forum is an accurate representation of the game then
1: Nobody runs fractals because its too annoying to find a group and the ring never drops. Yet there are plenty of people looking for group and plenty get run.
2: Nobody goes for legendaries because they are too expensive and too hard. Yet there are plenty of precursors on the TP. Perhaps not at the price you want but thats how a market works.
3: The Or zones are an empty wasteland because there are too many mobs and not enough reward. Yet temples get cleared and available to shop at so someone must be doing it.
4: WvW is stupid because there is nothing to do beyond a zerg fest. Yet I have queues to get into the maps.
If the forum is accurate why would they bother sending out a survey about the Lost Shores event?

All MMOs have forums like this if not worse. Why would any company make an MMO if their communities hate the game and players quit for everything and anything.

Johnson.4867:

^^ All of which sites have numerous players complaining about the game…. Why cant you guys just take it from the players themselves…. Do you not think we hear other peoples opinions of the game while in party chat doing an instance/event/ect?

When your population is 1 million (or whatever the playerbase is) you can have an incredible success rate of 1% dissatisfaction but that still leaves you 10,000 people who want to go out in the community and complain all creating their own thread and flooding sites.

People also have to be aware that there’s some paranoia about visiting forums for a game they enjoy playing. I still remember horror stories (which were apparently true) from EA forums, where if people got themselves banned intentionally or unintentionally, their access to all their origin games (which was unrelated) was locked out. So the safest way to not get banned was to simply not use their forums at all, which is presumably not the intent the company wishes for.

I don’t know if arenanet uses the same sort of methods here, but if they haven’t mentioned anything about it, why risk it?

There is also confirmation bias that has to be considered.
The idea that the more you hear a message from more people the more correct you are in your assumption.

1: Both positive and negative people about a game are on a forum
2: Positive person talks positively about the game.
3: The negative person talks negatively about the game and about the person and trolls them.
4: The positive person either quits going to the forum to avoid the abuse or turns negative and trolls back.
The net result is less positive people and more negative people and thus the appearance that everyone hates the game.

alcopaul.2156:

Aoshi.4785:

mulch.2586:

2 million + accounts.

Fewer than 1 million forums users

Therefore a minority. Cuz that’s what it means.

Pretty simple really. /thread

do you have to eat all the fishes in the sea to know what fish tastes like?

you just need to eat one to 2 fishes.

Do you really think you can eat one or two fish and know what they all taste like? Eat a couple fillets of whitefish and now you know what grouper or salmon must be like?

No.

The problem with using forums as a representative view of the entire population is that forums tend to be heavily skewed towards more hard-core styles of gamers. In other words… forums have an inherent bias. There’s a recent real life example of this in play… anyone remember during the recent Presidential race, there was a site called (iirc) unskewedpolls.com or something similar? They tried to remove from the polls the balances that were applied to them (to make them more realistically represent the actual populace). Removing those balances wound up with a sample that bore little resemblance to the actual population, and as a result they were embarrassingly wrong in their projections.

So, not only are forums representative of a minority of the population, they’re also biased to a major degree that needs to be taken into consideration when trying to get an idea of what the populace as a whole actually thinks. You can’t look at forums as an un-skewed sample and expect results that accurately reflect upon the population as a whole.

I’ve made the mistake of reading other MMO forums too often and although I was enjoying the games, the general negativity of postings began rubbing off and really started to hamper my enjoyment.

I purposely look at this forum pretty rarely and when I do, I try to avoid all the negativity, complaining, doom and gloom stuff. I’m enjoying this game, the first MMO I can really say that about since the original EQ and DAoC (and a little bit of AO).

Please don’t make the mistake of thinking much of the prevailing issues and opinions on this forum are representative of the thoughts of others that don’t frequent or post on it often, if at all.

IceBlink.4317:

I don’t know if arenanet uses the same sort of methods here, but if they haven’t mentioned anything about it, why risk it?

I doubt they do unless you’re really acting up and they have a good reason, I’m here because I’ve been banned from the German forums for no good reason (criticising the German staff) but I can play the game as usual.

Silent Majority AKA Argumentum ad populum without the populum.

Enough people believe this logical fallacy though, so it must be true! see what I did there?

There is simply no point in talking about this majority/minority thing. None of us neither the complainers nor those who are happy with something can claim they are talking for a majority of gamers. I think it’s outrite arrogant when someone thinks he knows what someone else thinks, if he doesn’t express it.

All this “blabla there are only negative people on the forum” or “blabla everyone is unhappy” doesn’t bring us anywhere. It is only used to cheapen someones opinion to make it look like his complaints are rubbish. Or it is used to make your opinion sound more important than it actually is.

So talk for yourself, leave the “silent Majority” aside, provide good arguments and let A-Net or the other posters decide what to think about your ideas.

Johnson.4867:

@Ahlen

I’ve yet to meet one person that DIDN’T kitten about how something is wrong in this game….

like i said, i gotta listen to people bit#% about how something sucks in map chat, guild chat, party chat, while doing a dungeon, while farming, ect…

all I’m saying is there’s SOMETHING wrong with this game.

I’ve actually seen / heard less people complain about things than in almost every other mmo I played so if something’s wrong with this game then almost every other mmo out there mut be complete trash.
Could be the people you hang out with though

it is safe to assume that this “silent majority” are the yes-men/women who just swallow everything that comes along without even doing some quality assessment to the things that goes through their mouth.

in a changing game which upholds quality and delivering quality in every change, it is very important to consider the dissatisfaction opinion because it indicates that there is something wrong with the quality of the change. this dissatisfaction don’t come from a fixed population of angry players. a boulder from the silent majority too can come off from a block and complain. see what happened when a very few people were suggesting vertical progression. and when it was announced that the game is gonna have vertical progression, loads of kittentormers came out of the shadow and voice out their opinion.

so it is dumb to assume that the silent majority is all happy and contented. one day, when change happen, for sure significant portions from the majority will become vocal about it.

it’s just the way it is.