Guild Wars 2

mavet.3047:

The plural of “math” is “math.” “Maths” is not a word. Just thought you should know

Your nationality is showing

http://www.dailywritingtips.com/math-or-maths/

Jairlyn.1429:

There is also confirmation bias that has to be considered.
The idea that the more you hear a message from more people the more correct you are in your assumption.

1: Both positive and negative people about a game are on a forum
2: Positive person talks positively about the game.
3: The negative person talks negatively about the game and about the person and trolls them.
4: The positive person either quits going to the forum to avoid the abuse or turns negative and trolls back.
The net result is less positive people and more negative people and thus the appearance that everyone hates the game.

You have to consider that there are also people that are neutral and just trying to give criticism which in some cases by necessity seems critical.

Haroshia.9358:

Silent Majority AKA Argumentum ad populum without the populum.

Enough people believe this logical fallacy though, so it must be true! see what I did there?

The silent majority is an unspecified large majority of people in a country or group who do not express their opinions publicly – per http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silent_majority (which is how you have it linked) It is best to let the wiki speak for itself.

All I meant is it is easy to dismiss the forum goers as a “vocal minority” but this is just ultra poor to think this. Because there is no evidence to suggest its true. And if anything forum goers will reflect the views of the wider community as they are a sample drawn from this community. The only reason this doesnt hold true is its a self selected sample so there is some inherent bias. However this does not mean this forum should be completely ignored. It shouldnt and I think that has happened to the detriment of the game over the last few weeks.

forum users are not the minority, its the people that post on them that are. it takes a special sort…

edit: generally you get more whiners and complainers on a forum simply because those that aren’t upset are playing the game. (look in any comment box from a store)
games that cater to what ppl say on thier forum generally go downhill anyway. forums are the texual garbage dump of ideas for any mmo.

Urxx.6840:

There’s not need to be anal about the OP’s words choice. What (s)he meant is clearly that (s)he believes forums to be a statistically valid sample of the whole community and therefore to be relevant in determining the community’s reaction to any ArenaNet action.

You may rightfully agree or disagree with the OP but if you argue about the words choice you are wasting forum space and showing little reading comprehension skills.

And by the way I agree with her/him. It might not be the most accurate sample ever, but it surely gives a true enough idea of the community feelings that ArenaNet should take them seriously.

There is no way the forums is an even remotely good sample of the playerbase.

azmodeus.3409:

…because those that aren’t upset are playing the game..

^ False (or indeed total lack of) logic.

I know many people that were unhappy with certain aspects of the game, the majority of which did not post on the forum, but neither are they happily playing the game, they are playing other games, some got refunds.

Which is in part the reason for this thread, when some idiot comes out with “vocal minority” garbage they base it on utterly false assumptions such as the “silent majority” disagree or that anyone still playing the game is totally happy with it.

If you think the only people who for example thought all the bugged DEs for the first couple of months were a bad thing were the minority who posted on it on the forums and that everyone else thought it was absolutely fine, you are gravely mistaken, as is anyone that uses the term “vocal minority” in a similar context.

The argument used to illustrate the silent majority to be those that are happy with the game just keep playing and never come to the forums is not sound reasoning or logical because the same reasoning can draw the same conclusions of the silent majority being unhappy players that dont visit the forums.

So realistically the only conclusion you can make is that only about (insert any number) 3% of the player base visit the forums or any social media outlet while the other 97% do not now lets be fair and divide that in half so about 48.5% are pro and negative leaving whats is represented on the forums the majority so if this forum is running 60/40 negative it does infact tilt the results to what represents the majority representation.

Asglarek.8976:

The argument used to illustrate the silent majority to be those that are happy with the game just keep playing and never come to the forums is not sound reasoning or logical because the same reasoning can draw the same conclusions of the silent majority being unhappy players that dont visit the forums.

So realistically the only conclusion you can make is that only about (insert any number) 3% of the player base visit the forums or any social media outlet while the other 97% do not now lets be fair and divide that in half so about 48.5% are pro and negative leaving whats is represented on the forums the majority so if this forum is running 60/40 negative it does infact tilt the results to what represents the majority representation.

Please read this defining sentence from Wikipedia:

The silent majority is an unspecified large majority of people in a country or group who do not express their opinions publicly

If you read the wiki further it would show an example of the protesting of the Vietnam War.

I am old enough to have been here in this time. Those protesting (in this case those coming to the forum) were a minority. Usually college students. The rest aka the silent majority were going to work everyday just trying to make ends meat for their families and for a good share supported the troops (maybe not the war, but the troops)

This is the silent majority here. They support the game for the most part or like it as is.

I have been in MMOs for 20 years. I have been in many games. I am speaking from first hand experience. Not assumptions or hearsay.

So to say the silent majority is a falsehood is an assumption without any backing through first hand experience or documentation.

Plus we have an Anet rep who clearly states that those on the forums are a minority.

Since that is the case where is the majority?

they aren’t saying anything. Gee I guess they are silent.

you forgot that part of the silent majority are the inactive accounts of those who quit or not playing the game that didn’t bother to go to the forums or banned accounts.

The people who talk on the forums are much whinier and much more hardcore than almost anyone I’ve played with in game.

I chat with the other players on my server in main chat and they focus on playing the game and having fun. When I look at the forums, almost everyone is focused on obtaining things rather than doing things, and comparing GW2 to WoW, EVE, or SWTOR.

Most players in game are excited about the monthly events and new updates (including ascended items) while players on the forums rage about them, threaten to quit the game, make claims about how every breathe an Arenanet dev takes has some unexpectedly catastrophic effect on the in-game economy, and write up outlandish conspiracy theories about how Arenanet is planning to steal everyone’s money and ruin their lives with an eternal grind.

EnemyCrusher.7324:

The people who talk on the forums are much whinier and much more hardcore than almost anyone I’ve played with in game.

I chat with the other players on my server in main chat and they focus on playing the game and having fun. When I look at the forums, almost everyone is focused on obtaining things rather than doing things, and comparing GW2 to WoW, EVE, or SWTOR.

Most players in game are excited about the monthly events and new updates (including ascended items) while players on the forums rage about them, threaten to quit the game, make claims about how every breathe an Arenanet dev takes has some unexpectedly catastrophic effect on the in-game economy, and write up outlandish conspiracy theories about how Arenanet is planning to steal everyone’s money and ruin their lives with an eternal grind.

I dont find this at all.
I have yet to meet a single person who actually enjoys the way fractals are right now. Whenever people discuss their rings it’s always “RNG is bullkitten” or “Ive been at this for 15 days now and nothing it’s so lame” it’s literally never “Man I really like the RNG system”

Same for disconnections. Havent met a single person who enjoys those, or being unable to come back in. Plenty of “Wow that really kittening stupid”s though.

The fact is, the people who are “happy” are those who stand in lions arch for 6 hours, using the game as a chat room, rather than actively going to do the content. At least on my server.

Ahlen.7591:

People who enjoy the game, don’t come out and complain about it. Therefore you don’t notice them.

Get it through your heads, the overall reception of guild wars 2 is positive, while the overall feedback is negative. Because people who have a negative opinion are more likely to bring up their real or perceived slights.

I absolutely agree with the point about feedback being negative overall. Yes, most players come to the forum to voice a concern or complaint rather than to post praise.

However, to assume that the overall reception of GW2 (or any game, I’m not trying to pick on GW2) is positive is pure speculation. To assume that everyone not complaining on a forum is content or happy with a game is naive. Many people who are unhappy with a product will simply (and quietly) take their business elsewhere without stopping by the forums to ever speak about it.

I’m sad to say that most of my guild has stopped playing GW2. None of them have ever posted on this or any public GW2 forum, and some might incorrectly assume their absence from a forum was a sign that they were content with the game. They just ran into enough things that discouraged them and quietly left.

Sylosi.6503:

azmodeus.3409:

…because those that aren’t upset are playing the game..

^ False (or indeed total lack of) logic.

I know many people that were unhappy with certain aspects of the game, the majority of which did not post on the forum, but neither are they happily playing the game, they are playing other games, some got refunds.

Which is in part the reason for this thread, when some idiot comes out with “vocal minority” garbage they base it on utterly false assumptions such as the “silent majority” disagree or that anyone still playing the game is totally happy with it.

If you think the only people who for example thought all the bugged DEs for the first couple of months were a bad thing were the minority who posted on it on the forums and that everyone else thought it was absolutely fine, you are gravely mistaken, as is anyone that uses the term “vocal minority” in a similar context.

We’ll take your anecdotal evidence under advisement.

Ahlen.7591:

Sylosi.6503:

azmodeus.3409:

…because those that aren’t upset are playing the game..

^ False (or indeed total lack of) logic.

I know many people that were unhappy with certain aspects of the game, the majority of which did not post on the forum, but neither are they happily playing the game, they are playing other games, some got refunds.

Which is in part the reason for this thread, when some idiot comes out with “vocal minority” garbage they base it on utterly false assumptions such as the “silent majority” disagree or that anyone still playing the game is totally happy with it.

If you think the only people who for example thought all the bugged DEs for the first couple of months were a bad thing were the minority who posted on it on the forums and that everyone else thought it was absolutely fine, you are gravely mistaken, as is anyone that uses the term “vocal minority” in a similar context.

We’ll take your anecdotal evidence under advisement.

Most of my guildmates that have left did so precisely because dynamic events are frequently broken (even to this day). You can argue that (being the meat of the game) it left them very little entertaining PvE content to do, or that it caused them to lose confidence in the developer’s ability to fix things, whatever. It was what it was.

None of them ever bothered to complain on the forums. Take that as you will.

Ahlen.7591:

Sylosi.6503:

azmodeus.3409:

…because those that aren’t upset are playing the game..

^ False (or indeed total lack of) logic.

I know many people that were unhappy with certain aspects of the game, the majority of which did not post on the forum, but neither are they happily playing the game, they are playing other games, some got refunds.

Which is in part the reason for this thread, when some idiot comes out with “vocal minority” garbage they base it on utterly false assumptions such as the “silent majority” disagree or that anyone still playing the game is totally happy with it.

If you think the only people who for example thought all the bugged DEs for the first couple of months were a bad thing were the minority who posted on it on the forums and that everyone else thought it was absolutely fine, you are gravely mistaken, as is anyone that uses the term “vocal minority” in a similar context.

We’ll take your anecdotal evidence under advisement.

Whoosh, that was the sound of the point going over your head, I wasn’t giving evidence, I was pointing out flawed logic & assumptions, perhaps you can find an adult to help explain it to you.

Do this….ask your guild. Count how many people in your guild are active forum participants.

In my guild of 30 active accounts and 15 or semi-active…there is 1 active forum participant. Me. Everyone else is too busy playing whatever part of the game intrigues them the most. There are altaholics, farmers, explorers, the dungeon crew, crafters, WvW’ers…and no small amount of mixed label players. If, indeed, you can actually label a player.

Most of them could care less about what goes on here. Except whatever tidbit of useful information I happen to pass on that I’ve gleaned here. I suspect most of you will find something similar..though there are prob some exceptions.

The thing is…it was exactly the same in EQ2. Or Runes of Magic.

And I can pretty much guarantee you that my views do not represent a majority of my guild.

forgive me but I am posting without reading every post, I stopped after page 1
based on page 1 GregT gets my vote

we can argue forever about what we and this forum can’t do
wish we could peer review about what we and this forum can do
fan content is the lore pearl for the fan forum story

Krosslite.1950:

Asglarek.8976:

The argument used to illustrate the silent majority to be those that are happy with the game just keep playing and never come to the forums is not sound reasoning or logical because the same reasoning can draw the same conclusions of the silent majority being unhappy players that dont visit the forums.

So realistically the only conclusion you can make is that only about (insert any number) 3% of the player base visit the forums or any social media outlet while the other 97% do not now lets be fair and divide that in half so about 48.5% are pro and negative leaving whats is represented on the forums the majority so if this forum is running 60/40 negative it does infact tilt the results to what represents the majority representation.

Please read this defining sentence from Wikipedia:

The silent majority is an unspecified large majority of people in a country or group who do not express their opinions publicly

If you read the wiki further it would show an example of the protesting of the Vietnam War.

I am old enough to have been here in this time. Those protesting (in this case those coming to the forum) were a minority. Usually college students. The rest aka the silent majority were going to work everyday just trying to make ends meat for their families and for a good share supported the troops (maybe not the war, but the troops)

This is the silent majority here. They support the game for the most part or like it as is.

I have been in MMOs for 20 years. I have been in many games. I am speaking from first hand experience. Not assumptions or hearsay.

So to say the silent majority is a falsehood is an assumption without any backing through first hand experience or documentation.

Plus we have an Anet rep who clearly states that those on the forums are a minority.

Since that is the case where is the majority?

they aren’t saying anything. Gee I guess they are silent.

My point was that the assumption that the “silent majority” is in favor of these recent changes goes without refute just because you are silent does not conclude anything otherthan you choose to be silent remember “correlation does not , never will imply causation”.

Your example of the Vietnam protests only proves my point. The vocal minority made both foreign and domestic policies that have come back to haunt us here in the USA but reading the news papers in 1968 and watching network news made you think everyone was against the war in southeast asia but it was just not the case when you consider less 1/4th the military up till the end of the draft was made up of draftee’s now correlation does not imply causation but young people were still enlisting even after watching ole Walter and his uncensored slanted grotesque reporting.

And people think news media manipulation is something new.

Raf.1078:

Do this….ask your guild. Count how many people in your guild are active forum participants.

In my guild of 30 active accounts and 15 or semi-active…there is 1 active forum participant. Me. Everyone else is too busy playing whatever part of the game intrigues them the most. There are altaholics, farmers, explorers, the dungeon crew, crafters, WvW’ers…and no small amount of mixed label players. If, indeed, you can actually label a player.

Most of them could care less about what goes on here. Except whatever tidbit of useful information I happen to pass on that I’ve gleaned here. I suspect most of younger will find something similar..though there are prob some exceptions.

The thing is…it was exactly the same in EQ2. Or Runes of Magic.

And I can pretty much guarantee you that my views do not represent a majority of my guild.

Cut and paste excepted for gaming exp. I have a lot more.

Simply i have about the same number of guildies and have exactly the amount using the forums.
I agree with this post