What makes you think the higher levels are supposed to drop the same stuff as the lower levels only with ascended gear on top of that?
That would be OK if we received the same proportion of rare/exotic/ascended loot overall with the chance slowly moving to ascended as we get higher but it seems we don’t. The drop in chance for rares doesn’t match the increase in chance for ascended.
Jade Quarry [SoX]
Miranda Zero – Ele / Twitch Zero – Mes / Chargrin Soulboom – Engi
Aliera Zero – Guardian / Reaver Zero – Necro
Reading through this thread, I’ve seen very little actual evidence or logical argument supporting claims either for or against the occurrence of such a change (Though personally, I have no reason to believe ArenaNet would have reason to lie on the subject). Please familiarize yourselves with principles of logic and objective experimentation before making such claims. As a starting point, I suggest looking at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anecdotal_evidence and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_Bias.
10-15 of these guildies (the same ones) ALWAYS received better loot wherever they went.
The rest ALWAYS received, at best, salvage trash.
If it were truly random chance, those 10-15 would have crap loot more than 3/4 of the time, they didn’t.
If it were truly random chance, the remainder would have good loot at least some of the time, they didn’t.
If the chance of dropping were truly random, rather than just “random in aggregate”, there would not be a vast, stickied thread of people who are vowing not to spend one dime in the gem shop until they fix this.
I’m sorry, but that is still anecdotal, and makes several fallacious assumptions. For one, you fail to provide any numeric support for your claims regarding loot. I realize this may not be possible in retrospect, but it does jeopardize the validity of the proposed evidence. I find the last point to be especially fallacious, as popular opinion does not define objective truth in any way. I rather doubt you spent any significant length of time reading the pages I linked. Additionally see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Correlation_does_not_imply_causation for further reasons for the assertions’ invalidity.
“Correlation Does Not Imply Causation”?
Are you serious?
Loot is “caused” by an algorithm and ONLY an algorithm.
If there’s a statistically significant pattern, such as 1% drop rates occurring EVERY loot (about 25% drop rate assuming 4 items per chest) for 500 loots in a row for a significant percentage of the populace, or a 1% drop NOT occurring at least once for every 200 items (this accounts for a VERY large standard deviation) looted in a sample of 2000, then yes, THE LOOT ALGORITHM is the cause.
I was responding specifically with that link to:
If the chance of dropping were truly random, rather than just “random in aggregate”, there would not be a vast, stickied thread of people who are vowing not to spend one dime in the gem shop until they fix this.
You seem to suggest that a large number of people perceiving a change is proof of such a change having occurred. In the absence of data to back this up, this is not the case. In response to the remainder post, statistically significant data is all well and good (although it would still only suggest a causation, scientifically, not prove one), but I still have yet to see such data. You may provide numbers, but I see no source for those numbers, and “If” seems to be the operative word. Perceived drop rates mean little or nothing. Without seeing specific data derived from properly controlled conditions, there is little or nothing that can be assumed.
Reading through this thread, I’ve seen very little actual evidence or logical argument supporting claims either for or against the occurrence of such a change (Though personally, I have no reason to believe ArenaNet would have reason to lie on the subject). Please familiarize yourselves with principles of logic and objective experimentation before making such claims. As a starting point, I suggest looking at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anecdotal_evidence and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_Bias.
10-15 of these guildies (the same ones) ALWAYS received better loot wherever they went.
The rest ALWAYS received, at best, salvage trash.
If it were truly random chance, those 10-15 would have crap loot more than 3/4 of the time, they didn’t.
If it were truly random chance, the remainder would have good loot at least some of the time, they didn’t.
If the chance of dropping were truly random, rather than just “random in aggregate”, there would not be a vast, stickied thread of people who are vowing not to spend one dime in the gem shop until they fix this.
I’m sorry, but that is still anecdotal, and makes several fallacious assumptions. For one, you fail to provide any numeric support for your claims regarding loot. I realize this may not be possible in retrospect, but it does jeopardize the validity of the proposed evidence. I find the last point to be especially fallacious, as popular opinion does not define objective truth in any way. I rather doubt you spent any significant length of time reading the pages I linked. Additionally see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Correlation_does_not_imply_causation for further reasons for the assertions’ invalidity.
“Correlation Does Not Imply Causation”?
Are you serious?
Loot is “caused” by an algorithm and ONLY an algorithm.
If there’s a statistically significant pattern, such as 1% drop rates occurring EVERY loot (about 25% drop rate assuming 4 items per chest) for 500 loots in a row for a significant percentage of the populace, or a 1% drop NOT occurring at least once for every 200 items (this accounts for a VERY large standard deviation) looted in a sample of 2000, then yes, THE LOOT ALGORITHM is the cause.
I was responding specifically with that link to:
If the chance of dropping were truly random, rather than just “random in aggregate”, there would not be a vast, stickied thread of people who are vowing not to spend one dime in the gem shop until they fix this.
You seem to suggest that a large number of people perceiving a change is proof of such a change having occurred. In the absence of data to back this up, this is not the case. In response to the remainder post, statistically significant data is all well and good (although it would still only suggest a causation, scientifically, not prove one), but I still have yet to see such data. You may provide numbers, but I see no source for those numbers, and “If” seems to be the operative word. Perceived drop rates mean little or nothing. Without seeing specific data derived from properly controlled conditions, there is little or nothing that can be assumed.
There are threads about bad loot, about 8 of them per day in this forum, not counting the massive stickied one, and the one that was even more massive and not stickied.
There’s the numerical evidence, the drop rates over long periods of time for the two halves of this great divide which defy all statistical probability, the massive wealth gaps that have resulted from this.
If this evidence were converted to mass it would coalesce into a black hole and collapse the universe, but of course you will not believe it until you cross the event horizon and are turned into an atom-wide strand of spaghetti.
I suppose you think the economy is doing just fine because the quantifiable aspects, such as the dow and housing, are just peachy-keen too.
Perception Is Reality in customer service. Straight-up statistics is cold comfort to people who receive 1/100th what most people receive on a consistent basis for months.
The argument is the same for the drop rate from Champions, they claim to have improved the drop rate – I personally haven’t seen any changes period, they still drop either nothing or blue items.
protest this travesty of a patch -
Get it taken down -
Do whatever it takes if you care about this game -
I’m not having problems with fractal Loot. But yes with Veterans and Champions where they said it was improved, No way it was, or it was something like 1% bigger chance. —’
Am I the only one to find that Fractal scales 1-9 offer better rewards than 10-19, 10-19 offers better rewards than 20-29, and 20-29 offers better rewards than 30-39?
In other words, the higher up you go the worse your drops will be. I have kept track of this for a while now, and in scales 0-9 i usually get 1-2 rares from each chest, a fair number of cores and/or lodestones and a good ammount of T6 materials, wich only seems to decrease as the scales go up… In 30+ I’m only seeing blues and greens from chests, VERY occasionally a rare, and god forbid I get a core or lodestone. My average profit on my 30+ runs? About 60s-2g. (Includes merching and selling rares/cores etc on the TP)
Also you have to realize that running 20+ is far far harder and takes longer than 1 – 19, but I agree, I’ve been running my alts from 1 – 10 and notice a significant improvement over 21+ in fact, one of my friends who is in the 40s told me not to even bother going past 20 since he didn’t notice any significant loot increases except for a very very slight chance for a fractal weapon. Not to mention, running 20+ with pugs is less fun than having teeth extracted.
protest this travesty of a patch -
Get it taken down -
Do whatever it takes if you care about this game -
the champions/vets was true they increased the loot, but if they increase by 0.1% the good loot you wont notice, but still they can say they inscrease the loot thats the problem with the poor info that they give us in the patch notes, same happend in the last patch with the Orr loot no %.
One thing worth checking is what effective fractal level your party is playing at, though nothing about loot rewards in fractals changed, we did change the system allowing what levels of fractal you could play with others which means you might simply be qualifying for much lower fractal levels (and thus loot).
The “level” of loot dropped for a player is the min of fractal scale and reward level. The reward level will still be displayed in the UI as a higher number than the fractal scale which might be cause for confusion, reward wise you’re still earning items based on the actual fractal scale you’re playing in. We display your personal rank because the players are awarded extra karma if there personal rank is over the current fractal scale.
You can add a second person to your list of people getting items, in my two fractal runs since the January release I’ve got an exotic and three rares. So there ya go!
Oh so that’s it, it was confusing me yes. I’m sincerely thankful for the clarification!
First time doing fractals in November: levels 1-8 gave about 5-6 rares per run AVERAGE (som runs with 8, some with 2) and 1 exotic every 2-3 runs.
Couple of weeks after that: levels 10-16 gave 3-4 rares per run, 1 exotic every 4-5 runs.
NOW: levels 16-20, 3-5 rares per run. Exotic? Does it even exist?
What makes you think the higher levels are supposed to drop the same stuff as the lower levels only with ascended gear on top of that?
Try running the low level stuff again. I have two level 80s and one of them has never made it out of the single digits. Running 2, 4, 6, or 8 for the daily on that secondry charater nets me great loot. My main is clearly drawing from a different loot table doing the daily difficulty 10 (but gets the ring tokens). Guess which one gets the exotics far more often? I am completely unsurprised if 16-20 is a different table from that…
“What makes you think the higher levels are supposed to drop the same stuff as the lower levels only with ascended gear on top of that?”
Is it me or does really this phrase don’t make sense as a respone of what I said?
What do higher levels have to drop, bananas? cats?
They obviously drop equipment and mats, they obviously should have an higher chanche to drop better equipment, hence: more rares and more exotics than lower levels.
This is still true as by now running lower level fractals doesn’t give (in average) more rares than higher level fractals.
Me and my guild did also several lower level fractals, I didn’t wrote about that for a simple reason:
the point of my post was crystal clear, we’re getting less loot to the point that higher level fractals NOW gives less loot than lower level fractals BEFORE. No reason to have a giant wall of text as I was implying that.
no idea how it work but im getting best loot in low lvl fractals , 20+ crap 90% loot
I’m noticing the same. I’m glad the moderators finally stopped locking and deleting these posts so people finally get the chance to step up and say there was a stealth nerf wether or not it was intentional.
No changes were made to loot in fractals what so ever, they will be covered in release notes if changes of that nature are made.
This is the same thing that was said of world loot after the 11/15 patch but I’ve received as many rares in the months since 11/15 as i’ve seen in the one week preceeding 11/15.
It seems like the “RNG” is “stuck”, because there are half the populace Consistently receiving amazing loot (2-3 ectos per dynamic event,5-6 per dungeon) while the remainder Consistently receive stacks of porous bones and blues.
Many others agree (thus the two threads with massive views and replies on this issue)
I’m telling you there’s a bug, and with this patch, it’s spread to fractals, so now the people who cloister themselves there are experiencing what the rest of us have been experiencing.
Maybe now it will get some attention?
Thanks for the input. Many many people are noticing this yet the dev’s claim nothing has changed. Stealth nerf is all I hear now in frac groups, map chat, and guild chat. Thanks to the mods for finally not closing this very important thread because some trolls can’t control themselves. Maybe they should try doing a better job of infracting the users that are causing the problems in these threads. RNG trolls much?
Just my 2cents last week i’ve been running fractals my lvl 10 and 20 daily. And working my way on to 30. But last week the best thing i’ve gotten is à green. It’s after the update that i startend THE notice THE deminished chest en boss loot. The best Thing at the maw was à green. Before the update there was à core or 2. I know it’s random but this is insane. It’s said that stuff works as it should.
YUP. That is all I keep hearing. But the RNG forum trolls keep saying RNG and the dev’s claim nothing has changed. CLEARLY NOT THE CASE. Thanks for the input and thanks to the mods for finally leaving these threads alive long enough for people to respond.
Power of suggestion. You see these posts, you suddenly “notice” more blues and greens in your runs, you decide it’s a reason to believe that they nerfed rare and exotic drops.
It’s in your head.
Sorry, you have it the other way around.
11/15 came and I noticed it in game, and came here to see if anyone else did.
Indeed i also came here after the frustration of deminished loot from chest and boss.
Cool thanks for taking the time to keep this issue alive. It’s clearly a problem wether or not it was intentional.
YUP. That is all I keep hearing. But the RNG forum trolls keep saying RNG and the dev’s claim nothing has changed. CLEARLY NOT THE CASE. Thanks for the input and thanks to the mods for finally leaving these threads alive long enough for people to respond.
The “RNG forum trolls” are simply applying common sense:
If there was a stealth nerf, it’d affect everyone. Not just everyone you know, but every player playing.
If there are people saying that they haven’t seen a change, then it’s either:
They suddenly got luckier with RNG, in which case the opposite is also possible.
There wasn’t a stealth nerf, and people have hit a bad run of luck.
There’s an issue with the loot system, DR or both, and it’s only affecting certain players.
Life is a journey.
Time is a river.
The door is ajar.
I haven’t noticed a difference. In fact, yesterday I got two exotics from one boss chest. This along with all the regular blues, greens and yellows. Fractals is still one of the better farms in the game. But I wish they would give us something worth buying with the pristines, because the rings are obviously useless if you play fractals regularly and have hundreds of them.
I haven’t noticed a difference. In fact, yesterday I got two exotics from one boss chest. This along with all the regular blues, greens and yellows. Fractals is still one of the better farms in the game. But I wish they would give us something worth buying with the pristines, because the rings are obviously useless if you play fractals regularly and have hundreds of them.
Grats. You are on the graceful side of RNG. The masses are not as lucky as you. It’s all over map chat, guild chat and random party chat. Read the thread and you will see many people filtering in here to discuss this.
Just wanted to give a quick update on this topic. We’ve completed verifying every update from the november release, and there were zero changes to anything what so ever that would have negatively affected loot in any way/shape/form. We can officially confirm this as an X-files level conspiracy at this point.
We’re in the midst of evaluating every loot table in the game and running massive random roll evaluations table by table, as well as evaluating every system game wide that causes a player to qualify for items to determine if any issues exist in those systems from launch.
Will update again when we have another round of concrete information.
So if I and several other people decide we’re having really solid luck with loot, and we come in and find a post about how drops might have been buffed, that would make it true?
Because I haven’t exactly been getting no rares or exotics or anything. Either way, they’ve already confirmed that they haven’t messed with the loot rates. RNG is RNG and this sample size is incredibly tiny.
Chris “Dawnheart” Aerinoh — Revenant, Guardian — Blackgate
I’ve done 4 lvl 20 daily’s a day since the patch and have been asking since the first day when I got ZERO rares FROM THE CHESTS (I still get rares from mobs)(normally was getting 2-5 from chests average) if anyone else was experiencing similar trends. Answers have been resounding YES. It’s been all over overflow chat, map chat and guild chat. If you filter through the RNG trolls on this thread you will see that people have been coming to this forum specifically for this issue with the chest. Please stop trolling and do some research yourself. Thanks.
I wanted to add my input to this thread. Ever since the latest patch, I have had at least 1-3 exotics drops per a fractal run, and I always received an exotic item from the fractal chest.
Mf doesn’t do anything on chests, anyways, you do realise it’s all up to luck? . Uhm I ran one last night, got like 7 rares and 2 exotics, now it’s not like that every run, but I don’t believe they would nerf stuff and wouldn’t tell us, it’s their game they can do whatever they want…
I’ve done 4 lvl 20 daily’s a day since the patch and have been asking since the first day when I got ZERO rares FROM THE CHESTS (I still get rares from mobs)(normally was getting 2-5 from chests average) if anyone else was experiencing similar trends. Answers have been resounding YES. It’s been all over overflow chat, map chat and guild chat. If you filter through the RNG trolls on this thread you will see that people have been coming to this forum specifically for this issue with the chest. Please stop trolling and do some research yourself. Thanks.
They definetly changed something I am and everyone I know who plays has said the exact same thing and all have noticed a change in chest and mob drops in fractals since patch aswell as ecto drops from salvaging rares.
One thing worth checking is what effective fractal level your party is playing at, though nothing about loot rewards in fractals changed, we did change the system allowing what levels of fractal you could play with others which means you might simply be qualifying for much lower fractal levels (and thus loot).
The “level” of loot dropped for a player is the min of fractal scale and reward level. The reward level will still be displayed in the UI as a higher number than the fractal scale which might be cause for confusion, reward wise you’re still earning items based on the actual fractal scale you’re playing in. We display your personal rank because the players are awarded extra karma if there personal rank is over the current fractal scale.
You can add a second person to your list of people getting items, in my two fractal runs since the January release I’ve got an exotic and three rares. So there ya go!
I had my BEST Fractal run since the update happened. 4 rares and an Exotic drop. in a single run. Grawl, Swamp, Norn level and Kraken(level 10). Gonna have to agree with Colin here. For me, I would have thought it was changed for the better!
Leader of The Guernsey Milking Coalition [MiLk] Sanctum of Rall
I do Tier 1, 2 and 3 Fractals every day at least twice each. I’ve not noticed any nerf of the drops. It’s all pretty randomised. Some days the lower levels give me good loot and the higher levels don’t, sometimes it’s the other way round. Some days I get good loot from all of them, some days not so much. It’s been this way ever since I’ve been doing Fractals daily, likewise for my regular team mates that I’m talking to on RC about this lol. Most of you guys are just hating on an RNG that hasn’t favoured you to your liking. Sorry to say but it’s true.
Can we take Colin’s statements to be as correct as when we were assured that Veterans and Champions would drop ANYTHING?
Sorry if I am more than a bit skeptical.
Ha, I totally agree. Hard to take things serious when things like this happens. Lets not even talk about the wooden chests dropping only “uncommon” stuff.
First, I reported Vik Flagge for his continuous failed attempts on constructive discussion here, telling everybody who doesn’t share his opinion to shut the… and calling people trolls instead. So, if you’re wondering – it was me.
Second, as TheDaiBish already pointed out, the number of replies in here already shows how small the samle base is, everything in here is then purely anecdotal. Remember that even if everybody who’s actively writing in these forums would comment on it, it would still be a minority when we’re looking at the total number of players.
I just looked in here because I was looking for “red posts” from the dev log – that already explains the high number of views on this thread btw. I personally didn’t notice a change in loot. Following your logic, if I find 50 other people claiming that nothing has changed, it automatically becomes true.
No changes were made to loot in fractals what so ever, they will be covered in release notes if changes of that nature are made.
its a shame that u tell this in public forums
no stealthlootnerf was ever announced in patchnotes
-jormag trash loot?
-karka open world loot?
you closed a 600 post and 8000 view thread about loot issues after karka event
playing since start as an not so lucky person had good yellows in orr when doing events, then karka patch yellow droprate reduced, i changed to fractals awesome loot
maw chest usual got me 2-3 yellows some lodestones and if lucky and exo
now after patch it contains mainly green crap and no lodestones, im on 250 fractals so guess i can say i got experience when it comes to loot.
thats nothing to do with rng overall loot in fractals seems to be affected by your total crap dr
its fine u wanna sell gems, its not ok to lie and lose trust of your customers by announcing such ……
One thing worth checking is what effective fractal level your party is playing at, though nothing about loot rewards in fractals changed, we did change the system allowing what levels of fractal you could play with others which means you might simply be qualifying for much lower fractal levels (and thus loot).
The “level” of loot dropped for a player is the min of fractal scale and reward level. The reward level will still be displayed in the UI as a higher number than the fractal scale which might be cause for confusion, reward wise you’re still earning items based on the actual fractal scale you’re playing in. We display your personal rank because the players are awarded extra karma if there personal rank is over the current fractal scale.
You can add a second person to your list of people getting items, in my two fractal runs since the January release I’ve got an exotic and three rares. So there ya go!
As Colin has already responded to this topic and there is nothing more to be said on the matter. I am closing this thread.
