Guild Wars 2

It should be around 30 mins at best 40 mins but about an hour is just way too long. We already hate Fractals plz dont make us hate it even more

We do? News to me. Maybe you can find one of those speed groups, or something. The new LFG will let you specify exactly what kind of group you are looking for, next week!

an hour is too long?
you must be that person that quit just because we rolled dredge on the 3rd fractal. btw, we finished that one, thank you very much.

try rolling ascalon fractal on 1st fractal.

we get water on 2nd and ice on 3rd.

sweet.

Dredge/Cliffside/ Grawl (with a bad group)

now THAT’S long

Not going anywhere for a while?

Try Colossus, then Dredge, then Grawl.

AnthonyOrdon.3926:

We’re currently looking at a few things regarding individual fractal difficulty and length. A couple of options are reducing the length of unnecessarily long fractals (dredge) and modifying the possible sequence of randomly selected fractals so you don’t get the longest and most difficult ones all on the same run.

Please do both.

Just remember: higher hp doesn’t necessarily = more challenging content

Will doing fractals ever be rewarding or 3 blues and 1 green is what i can expect in lev48 Maw’s daily for the years to come?

I think fractals just need more story purpose or feeling that I accomplished something, right now it’s a, jump to another time and kill things sort of event. I wouldn’t mind length if it had more purpose.

Fractal relics are worthless after a point. I suggest the relic golem sell a miniature kitty-golem pet that costs an obscene number of relics. I will not rest until I have such a thing.

It has to make the meow noise. I’m serious >:(

AnthonyOrdon.3926:

We’re currently looking at a few things regarding individual fractal difficulty and length. A couple of options are reducing the length of unnecessarily long fractals (dredge) and modifying the possible sequence of randomly selected fractals so you don’t get the longest and most difficult ones all on the same run.

Thanks for the information, Anthony, and for looking for ways to make FotM a better experience for players.

I dislike being locked into something for that length of time. It’s fine with me though, I just don’t do them. Lots of other content to enjoy.

AnthonyOrdon.3926:

KazNaka.4718:

Just remember: higher hp doesn’t necessarily = more challenging content

I agree. Unfortunately damage and defense scaling reaches a point where it no longer conveys a sense of progression and challenge. For example, once creatures start one-shotting every player, it doesn’t matter how much extra damage they do. We’re also looking into how to meaningfully extend the scalability of FOTM.

this is just a stupid idea, but perhaps you could incorporate some of the aspects from jumping puzzles. It is one of gw2’s strengths. I know I had a lot of fun with the halloween clock tower puzzle.

why do we need agony resist if at higher levels, we will die to agony regardless of AR?

ellesee.8297:

why do we need agony resist if at higher levels, we will die to agony regardless of AR?

I think you meant enemy attacks that apply agony are attacks that usually hit hard even without the agony…right?

AnthonyOrdon.3926:

KazNaka.4718:

Just remember: higher hp doesn’t necessarily = more challenging content

I agree. Unfortunately damage and defense scaling reaches a point where it no longer conveys a sense of progression and challenge. For example, once creatures start one-shotting every player, it doesn’t matter how much extra damage they do. We’re also looking into how to meaningfully extend the scalability of FOTM.

More attacks, less damage instead of 3 skills that are 1-hit KO’s?

Copestetic.5174:

AnthonyOrdon.3926:

KazNaka.4718:

Just remember: higher hp doesn’t necessarily = more challenging content

I agree. Unfortunately damage and defense scaling reaches a point where it no longer conveys a sense of progression and challenge. For example, once creatures start one-shotting every player, it doesn’t matter how much extra damage they do. We’re also looking into how to meaningfully extend the scalability of FOTM.

More attacks, less damage instead of 3 skills that are 1-hit KO’s?

I’d like to see a bit more emphasis brought back on interrupts. Give “tougher” enemies skills that reduce damage or heal, but with a window of opportunity for interrupts. This then requires players to properly observe the boss’s actions, and keep a skill in reserve for when they start to pull out their healing. (Anybody remember Glint’s Crystal Hibernation skill from GW1? Imagine giving a boss like Tequatl that skill where if he’s not interrupted, all attacks against him will HEAL instead of harming him, causing the zerg to basically undo all the damage they just did for the last 5 mins if they don’t pay attention.)

AnthonyOrdon.3926:

KazNaka.4718:

Just remember: higher hp doesn’t necessarily = more challenging content

I agree. Unfortunately damage and defense scaling reaches a point where it no longer conveys a sense of progression and challenge. For example, once creatures start one-shotting every player, it doesn’t matter how much extra damage they do. We’re also looking into how to meaningfully extend the scalability of FOTM.

One shot mechanics can work if the player has enough time to react.

The truth of the matter is that FOTM is a flawed design. Nothing can grow exponentially over time for infinity. Basic arithmetic proves it. What I think you need to do is reduce the scalability of the content. Easy normal and hard. Reward players based on risk. Hard is higher risk thus greater reward.

AnthonyOrdon.3926:

We’re currently looking at a few things regarding individual fractal difficulty and length. A couple of options are reducing the length of unnecessarily long fractals (dredge) and modifying the possible sequence of randomly selected fractals so you don’t get the longest and most difficult ones all on the same run.

Anthony, and about the hard cap at 50? And about the rewards that are completely abysmal? Every single pve content out there got a buffed reward except fractals, i’m lucky to get out of a level 48 with more than 1 gold. And those ones are exceedingly long and hard.

AnthonyOrdon.3926:

We’re currently looking at a few things regarding individual fractal difficulty and length. A couple of options are reducing the length of unnecessarily long fractals (dredge) and modifying the possible sequence of randomly selected fractals so you don’t get the longest and most difficult ones all on the same run.

The dredge and cliffside fractals need to have their length reduced regardless of whether a group gets them in the same run or not. They are too long for what fractals is meant to be.

AnthonyOrdon.3926:

A couple of options are reducing the length of unnecessarily long fractals (dredge) and modifying the possible sequence of randomly selected fractals so you don’t get the longest and most difficult ones all on the same run.

Thank God. Always loved getting the Colossus/Dredge/Grawl Shaman.. and through out those not getting a single rare drop or even a core at the end. Revisiting the rewards system would be handy too. It’s a bit backwards someone can walk away with much less after an hour of fractals when you compare what one can get with an hour of dungeoning.

Zaxares.5419:

Copestetic.5174:

AnthonyOrdon.3926:

KazNaka.4718:

Just remember: higher hp doesn’t necessarily = more challenging content

I agree. Unfortunately damage and defense scaling reaches a point where it no longer conveys a sense of progression and challenge. For example, once creatures start one-shotting every player, it doesn’t matter how much extra damage they do. We’re also looking into how to meaningfully extend the scalability of FOTM.

More attacks, less damage instead of 3 skills that are 1-hit KO’s?

I’d like to see a bit more emphasis brought back on interrupts. Give “tougher” enemies skills that reduce damage or heal, but with a window of opportunity for interrupts. This then requires players to properly observe the boss’s actions, and keep a skill in reserve for when they start to pull out their healing. (Anybody remember Glint’s Crystal Hibernation skill from GW1? Imagine giving a boss like Tequatl that skill where if he’s not interrupted, all attacks against him will HEAL instead of harming him, causing the zerg to basically undo all the damage they just did for the last 5 mins if they don’t pay attention.)

That would be awesome, and insanely funny at the same time.

Nuka Cola.8520:

Will doing fractals ever be rewarding or 3 blues and 1 green is what i can expect in lev48 Maw’s daily for the years to come?

This, I want to actually make profit with a group of people by running really hard fractals or dungeons, we need alternatives to zerg farming.

Risk/Reward is probably the most borked thing in this game lol.

I love how a fractal thread in GD got 2 replies. Oh dungeon sub-forum, why do you still exist.

Knote.2904:

Nuka Cola.8520:

Will doing fractals ever be rewarding or 3 blues and 1 green is what i can expect in lev48 Maw’s daily for the years to come?

This, I want to actually make profit with a group of people by running really hard fractals or dungeons, we need alternatives to zerg farming.

Risk/Reward is probably the most borked thing in this game lol.

Not probably but is the most broken thing in the game.

I always find it confusing/annoying when people skip, dredge, colossus and grawl fractals… I mean I have had people do it when doing daily’s of level 2 and 10
Hell I had someone skip a level 10 uncatogorized fractal… Possibly one of the easiest fractals to do at any level (yeah the knockdowns are annoying but with three warriors and a guardian you can just stability your way through it without a care in the world)

Then again most warriors run zerker builds and are fan freaking kittentastic at actually playing the game and go down every 3 seconds because they don’t understand why zerker warriors exist in the game.

This said I would never run a high level fractal without an organised team so -shrugs-

@Anthony…

WHile you fix fractal could you please consider those players that played lot of fractals with minimum rewards?

Adding something (NOT FOTM SKINS) good to buy with pristines and some use for shards?

I mean its quite bad that every single currency/mats gest obsolete introducing a new.
Shards should ve been included in ascended crafting.

Please since every single patch takes in account mostly market flippers, for once give a bonus to real players…..

The promise was 3 mini-dungeons. The reality was one dungeon as long as any other…a grueling dungeon with no waypoints and no repair…and for a long time, no disconnects, no rage quits tolerated.

I don’t have time for full dungeons and I very quickly stopped running fractals, only getting to level 5; never got an ascended ring, never got an infusion.

P.S. Never found a group that didn’t abort at swamp…that’s time wasted in swamp, plus the first 1 or 2 that we lost credit for, for a run of 5-6 fractals and now twice as long as a regular dungeon.

If you do actually sit a dev down and have them do actual work on fractals, could you please have them stop by the actual dungeon forum every now and then to chat? I promise we won’t bite…

…ok, maybe just a little off the flank, nothing more.

Thanks for posting here, but the main problem isn’t the length.
Sure, it would be great if you don’t just get the longest, but more important would be the rewards.
The only reason I do fractals is because I really like them (and still haven’t got a fractal dagger after over 2000 runs 38-48, lol), but if I wouldn’t like them that much, I wouldn’t even bother thinking about doing them.

2 Important things many players would most likely see an answer too:
1) There are quite some really good threads with suggestions, please tell us you’ve looked into them or at least will look into them, since a majority of players find them quite good
2) What time frame? This year? early next year? mid-next year? or more to the end of next year?

KazNaka.4718:

AnthonyOrdon.3926:

KazNaka.4718:

Just remember: higher hp doesn’t necessarily = more challenging content

I agree. Unfortunately damage and defense scaling reaches a point where it no longer conveys a sense of progression and challenge. For example, once creatures start one-shotting every player, it doesn’t matter how much extra damage they do. We’re also looking into how to meaningfully extend the scalability of FOTM.

this is just a stupid idea, but perhaps you could incorporate some of the aspects from jumping puzzles. It is one of gw2’s strengths. I know I had a lot of fun with the halloween clock tower puzzle.

THIS. Boss encounters can also be improved and adjust the difficulty with changes to map layout and environmental mechanics like the Mega Destroyer World Event and Mad King. Those are my favorite boss encounters so far.

Jade Maw mechanics and map layout is kinda nice and all but I’m really not that in to stationary bosses. They feel dull and boring like the Shatterer, Teq, and Jungle Wurm. You’re just actually trying to survive the adds while DPSing the huge piñata. It’s pretty lame. XD

1 hour? Boy try fractal 70+, if you get dredge map, that dredge carrier clearing part alone is 40+ minutes. Why they gave invulnerability to them as they spawn is beyond me as they get to 1-2 shot you from full health before you can even hit them. The dredge map alone takes 2+ hours. When we rolled dredge as a 2nd map, we simply redo fractals because it takes THAT LONG.

I do wish they short of left the way fractals were at the beginning where players can only join as high as a fractal as they achieve because for us early adopters, playing with someone at lv30 meant they too ran it lv30 and will be at the same skill level as you. For me I loved doing fractal lv60 on a daily basis because everyone there is the skill level where you know they won’t screw up repetitively.
I hate how the new players just stack more and more agony resist to make running fractals a joke as opposed to the early days where agony resist were just training wheels to get you learn to dodge agony and once you hit lv40+ its 1 hit KO since AR was capped back then.

can we have a fractal exclusive armor? why is it every dungeon in the game has its armor set and not fractals that are much harder than the others? and if there is one coming, i want pants on light armor for once and trench coats on medium armor aren’t allowed.

AnthonyOrdon.3926:

We’re currently looking at a few things regarding individual fractal difficulty and length. A couple of options are reducing the length of unnecessarily long fractals (dredge) and modifying the possible sequence of randomly selected fractals so you don’t get the longest and most difficult ones all on the same run.

You just made my day

The problem with fractals isn´t really the time it takes to complete a single one, even the more annoying ones. The thing is, once you enter a fractal group, you are possibly “stuck” for a long time, which really take them out of the picture during work week evenings. Maybe a fractal session should consist of a lesser number of fractals with an adjustment/splitting of rewards. Not talking about a reward nerf here. Just divide the fractal runs and split the end rewards proportionally (including of cause an adjustment of the time gating etc).

Chickenshoes.6250:

Fractal relics are worthless after a point. I suggest the relic golem sell a miniature kitty-golem pet that costs an obscene number of relics. I will not rest until I have such a thing.

It has to make the meow noise. I’m serious >:(

Let us use them to buy the runes from the regular dungeons.

Just the runes. The skins can stay dungeon locked for all I care.

KazNaka.4718:

AnthonyOrdon.3926:

KazNaka.4718:

Just remember: higher hp doesn’t necessarily = more challenging content

I agree. Unfortunately damage and defense scaling reaches a point where it no longer conveys a sense of progression and challenge. For example, once creatures start one-shotting every player, it doesn’t matter how much extra damage they do. We’re also looking into how to meaningfully extend the scalability of FOTM.

this is just a stupid idea, but perhaps you could incorporate some of the aspects from jumping puzzles. It is one of gw2’s strengths. I know I had a lot of fun with the halloween clock tower puzzle.

What some with personal preferences see as a “strength”, others see as a “weakness”.

Glad you enjoy jump puzzles. I know there are fair number of players that do as well as evidenced by the return of SAB.

There are other players who believe platform play has no place in an MMO where server/client latencies and discrepancies negate the entire Nintendo effect. GW2 already has disagreements about location of characters and buttons pushed without jump puzzle mechanics involved.

I agree that there is a large number of current Fractal players who would like to have difficulty added in order to keep their playstyle “fresh” and challenging.

Careful consideration needs to given for those players who do not enjoy platform play, or have connections/hardware issues that could in effect block them from playing, or wiping their groups.

Looking forward to seeing what ANet does.

The main reason i do not do Fotm and rarely have is because it locks me into 4 fractals without a break, if i could do one then return to the platform decide if i want to do another i’d be great with it. sadly 4 in a row, no too much..

I don’t do Fractals because I don’t like to devote a long period of time to a single, unexitable task (yes, you can technically exit, but that would mean screwing over the entire group and abandoning any rewards you’ve earned). I like much smaller experiences. I would much prefer playing a mode where you only do one Fractal at a time, you could never shorten the existing ones enough to make doing three at a time short enough.

The amount of rewards could be reduced a bit or something (as in if you do three distinct fractals you’d wind up with less than if you did one Fractal cycle), and some mechanism could be in place to encourage doing unpopular fractals (like requiring you to cycle through all seven before you can get a big reward bag, but you can do them over several days if need be).

That would be the best way to do it, really, add in an infinite achievement “complete seven unique fractals,” which would work like a combination of “Frequent Sprinter” and the monthly jumper, in that you’d need to do each Fractal once to increment the achievement, and then when you complete it, you get a reward chest and it resets.

AnthonyOrdon.3926:

We’re currently looking at a few things regarding individual fractal difficulty and length. A couple of options are reducing the length of unnecessarily long fractals (dredge) and modifying the possible sequence of randomly selected fractals so you don’t get the longest and most difficult ones all on the same run.

This is the most positive, heartening, lovely statement I’ve come across from a developer on these boards for quite some time. I can’t wait to see the final rework of FOTM.

Nikaido.3457:

AnthonyOrdon.3926:

We’re currently looking at a few things regarding individual fractal difficulty and length. A couple of options are reducing the length of unnecessarily long fractals (dredge) and modifying the possible sequence of randomly selected fractals so you don’t get the longest and most difficult ones all on the same run.

This is the most positive, heartening, lovely statement I’ve come across from a developer on these boards for quite some time. I can’t wait to see the final rework of FOTM.

Agreed.

I stopped doing Fotm long time ago for 3 reasons manly:

-time/effort spent isn’t stable. some runs takes very little effort/time (think about getting ascalon + swamp + water), some can be 3 times long and hard (dredge + colossus + grawl)
-getting dredge fractal is enough to make any fractal run a major PITA
-rewards are supbar compared to open world/regular DGs. and too RNG.

Brow.9425:

The promise was 3 mini-dungeons. The reality was one dungeon as long as any other…a grueling dungeon with no waypoints and no repair…and for a long time, no disconnects, no rage quits tolerated.

I don’t have time for full dungeons and I very quickly stopped running fractals, only getting to level 5; never got an ascended ring, never got an infusion.

P.S. Never found a group that didn’t abort at swamp…that’s time wasted in swamp, plus the first 1 or 2 that we lost credit for, for a run of 5-6 fractals and now twice as long as a regular dungeon.

Wow, you must have stopped playing Fractals a good while ago.

They addressed a lot of the issues.

There are checkpoints, so if your party is out of combat and you are dead, you can return to a checkpoint.

If you need to repair, you can logout/login (If you’re the instance starter, PLEASE don’t login as a different character, ahaha) and you’ll end up in Lion’s Arch.

Swamp is the fastest fractal, and people now usually start with swamp fractal so they can minimize the amount of time spent in fractals.

AnthonyOrdon.3926:

KazNaka.4718:

Just remember: higher hp doesn’t necessarily = more challenging content

I agree. Unfortunately damage and defense scaling reaches a point where it no longer conveys a sense of progression and challenge. For example, once creatures start one-shotting every player, it doesn’t matter how much extra damage they do. We’re also looking into how to meaningfully extend the scalability of FOTM.

I think the right way is like with bosses and different phases, stuff you already did to some degree with increased fractal difficulties. Don’t just increase/decrease values, change/add behaviour and mechanics within higher fractals that bring more challenge… Stuff that you can’t just compensate with the right gear.
Perfect would be if all these mechanics (not just concerining fractals) would be kind of different every time, making sure that you just can follow the same pattern over and over again after you figured it out once (certainly the hardest point to accomplish, but that would bring the most re-playability!)

Concerning rewards with difficulty in mind you could even add bonus/optional goals within any content (not just fractals), giving bonus rewards/loot for each bonus you succeeded in within that content. That way you could make content more rewarding for hardcore players, bringing that optional challenge, while the content still is doable for the casual players. Kind of the same mechanic you use for some achievements already, but re-achievable ones for those fractals/dungeons/whatever… So, you could also scale the different optional goals and their related loot.

The main problem is that Fractals is totally UNREWARDING.
Since i have my rings and backpack i barely visited Fractals, there is just no reason.
The only thing that made me run Fractals are the weapon skins but RNG is not really incentive.
You should get tokens like the Pristine Fractal Relics, i haven’t got any weapon skin after hundred of runs and my friends only got unpopular skins.

Dredge: Too long and without “using of game mechanics” the control panel part just sucks 30+.
Defending in a Dungeon where you are a 1-2 Shot is no fun. I shouldn’t be forced to have a full PVT Equip in my backpack ( and that only makes me a 2-3 shot…).

Cliffside: Without not touching the mobs at the double seal it is too hard 30+.
The fire part is just studip, the only way to avoid damage in fractals is aegis(high cooldown) or dodging (there is no place to dodge anywhere!)

Grawl : Love it with my Guild Group fast and easy. Hate it with PUGs.
Extremly merciless to not optimal class/traits.
High damage and survivability needed, not every class is a warrior.

Many classes are just a burden → “LFM Frac XX (NO Ranger/Thief)” These are not bad but they don’t forgive any mistakes ( Warrior is a faceroll class for knuckleheads, admit it :P )

Rerolled from Ranger(LV28) to Guard because
1.No one wants Rangers in their group, support/suvivabilty/damage rate is really bad compared to warriors.
2.There is no reason to take a ranged class with you, most buffs and combofields only trigger in meele range.
3. Your Pet is instantly dead and taking a Low Dmg high HP pet makes no sense.
PETS CAN’T DODGE!!! They should dodge when we dodge…
4.Sword is our only option to do viable damage but the attack chain won’t let us dodge…

My two cents.

Yaso.8510:

Cliffside: Without not touching the mobs at the double seal it is too hard 30+.

Oh i forgot..
1-2 months ago a dev said on this forum he would fix this to clear all and spawn only 2 at each party wipe, basicly resetting the seal as you would find it at 1st attempt.

He said he couldn t give us a date but he was working on it….any news?

Also address the mandatory guardian in fotm issue please

Would made fotm great.

P.S. thief are awesome and sought after in fotm….its the 3rd best profession for fotm

Yaso.8510:

The main problem is that Fractals is totally UNREWARDING.
Since i have my rings and backpack i barely visited Fractals, there is just no reason.
The only thing that made me run Fractals are the weapon skins but RNG is not really incentive.
You should get tokens like the Pristine Fractal Relics, i haven’t got any weapon skin after hundred of runs and my friends only got unpopular skins.

This is the main part, i made a few posts myself about it in the past, Fractal is NOT worth the time, why do i even do fractal for ? rewards? ok rings back got i all on several alts and sub gear. weapons are a dam joke in our face its the worst rng in the game getting a legendary is dam easier why not use the token system and make rewards worth the time, heck add some rewards to make it intresting.

All these new ascended weapons then armor for what? agony resistence i dont want to do fractal! the gold is bad now compare to dungeons, too long and rng rewards, how about improving what we get so all your future gear plans will be of some use….

Zacchary.6183:

Stop complaining and play the game.

/problemsolved

Why settle for less when we know and everyone knows it can be better? Not everyone can be happy with being less.

Honestly this was GREAT news and it makes me happier to do more fotms again, I would do more 38’s and 48’s (daily) if this came to pass.