Guild Wars 2

I like many of you learned about Guildwars 2, and was sold instantly. I have been scouring the web for a glimpse of this game’s content for the last 2 years as it was slowly revealed. The game came out and I began the leveling process. I remember thinking “hey this story is pretty well done for a start in building up to the end game”. I remember being occosionally interupted by a “dynamic event” while trekking from heart to heart and picking up every vista and point of interest. I though “this beats the leveling process of most mmo’s I have played”. My only critisisms of the leveling process was the large amount of kill quests, and how the quests seem to lack depth. That is fine for pre-endgame content. It wouldn’t really be an mmo of leveling wasn’t a grind.
I reached level 80, and was extremely excited to see what the endgame held. I didn’t really see much going on, so I assumed it was just because of the lack of people at 80. Then I read the post named “The Endgame Reimagined”. It was a complete slap in the face. It essentially said, the endgame and leveling are exactly the same. I was livid and felt cheated. In the past week a few posts defending the “endgame” have been poping up, and each one has the opposite of the intended effect. The endgame is a shell of what it should be. Below I’m going to eloborate on why I think each aspect of “endgame” needs work.

Dungeons:
The lack of anyone having a defined role makes it impossible to distinguish who is doing good or bad because they could appear to be doing anything. Healing and support are tied in to offensive abilities. When a group is dying, how do we know who to blame. When a group is thriving, how do we know who to thank and to learn from. Winning or losing, everyone appears to be just aimlessly attacking and running around like chickens with their heads cut off. There is abolutely no structure. There is no way to see if someone’s gear/triats/utilities make any sense without interviewing them. I have played with a group in skype/vent, and tried to coordinate. Interviewing people to get just 5 decent players was a nightmare, and anything that was accomplished through our planning could have easily been acheived without. Combo feilds don’t have to be planned… they are just there. CC is so short that attempting to line them up would require someone dictating everyone while speaking at the speed of an auctioneer.
My final and strongest complaint about the dungeons are the waypoints. Dying over and over only to run back to the same fight is completly ridiculous.

World Bosses:
These are even worse than dungeons. As a caster, I can just stay my 1200 range away and spam a few abilities. Dodging is rarely required, and you can usually just sidestep when it would be useful. Adds have a short aggro range, so if you take a few steps in any directions they will leave. Without any cast sequence or priorities, this large scale model is simple and boring. If you are meelee, you are at an extremely large disadvantage. It is much more dangerous near an enemy than far away even if you’re behind them. The way these bosses behave is worse. They act as if no one is there and simply attacking places randomly. A few seconds of observation should clue you in on the places where you shouldn’t stand because the boss really hates the dirt in that area and feels compelled to smash it over and over.

To Be Continued…

Questing/Exploring:
Honestly this should be self explanitory. This should not be provided as a replacement for endgame content. This is stuff you do while you are learning the game and leveling. It gives you a sense of the world, and gives you something to “defend”. It would be annoying to be thrown directly into endgame story without first having a sense of the scale on what it affects. I don’t want to defend an small section of land from an angry dragon. I want to see the world that the dragon is trying to destroy, and defend the world. I apologize for the RP element, but that is the nature of Questing/Exploration. It is what builds up to a finale, and gives the game a much needed sense of epicness. Would you rather kill a boss who is just chilling in his lair without purpose, or a boss who seeks to throw the world into chaos? If I wanted to explore/quest for an endgame, I would just walk around outside in the real world and help little old ladies cross the street and pick up garbage. Oh and what is the point of leveling at all if the endgame is the same as leveling? We could start at 80 and do all the quests from there right? NO! It is a bad idea from the start and its a bad idea at the end. A max level character should not be subjected to the same type of grinding a leveling charcter is. Now if the questing was actually a bit deeper and all the quests weren’t pretty much the same, then I’d be interested in exploring the content. Defend this, kill that, oh look a chamption! go kill it. Just different skins to the same quest. QUALITY OVER QUANTITY!

Gear:
It is almost entirely obtainted through generic currencies. This puts even more emphasis on the idea of questing/exploration at max lvl. Also the stats are increased in very small increments. It is mostly just for show rather than actually being much of use. Some of the gear looks pretty cool, but all of it is obtained the same way. There is never a moment of “Oh! that guy has cool gear. I wonder where it came from”. Its more of “Oh. That is what you chose”.

sPvP:
This is actually the main reason I bought this game. I would be okay with completely ignoring pve if this was good enough.
This desperately needs a good ranking system. The annual/montly tournaments are vague and don’t supply a rating at all times. I got with a group of people and we got good at winning tournaments and have sharpened our skills. Now we win almost everytime with ease. We are usually facing groups of people who are uncoordinated or thrown together without thought. It is boring beating the same baddies over and over. If there was a better rating system, we’d be agaisnt people of our skill level. That would be much more fun. Occasionally we go against a team that has much higher skill, and we are destroyed. That isn’t fun either. I don’t think we have ever had a close game. The score is either 500-80 or 125-500 =(
Very anti-climactic.
Half my team is on the edge of uninstalling, and the other half just wants to wait for improvements.
It also sucks that we have no way to test our builds or learn from each other through duels.

WvWvW:
You can find other people talking about this. I can see how it has the potential to be fun sometimes, but I could never get into it. My pvp tastes loathe the zergy unstructured mess. I havn’t met anyone who likes this, pvp’er or pve’r

Crafting:
I can’t really talk about this, since I have never enjoyed crafting in any game. I always see it as the most grindy chore in games. I will say one thing though. This game has the most annoyingly obtuse crafting I have ever seen. It probably doesn’t help that I started with cooking though…

I also cringed at the sight of this post that Anet posted on facebook.
http://guildwars2hub.com/features/editorials/80-things-do-level-80
It all overlaps and is nonsense.

On a final note.
I have played a large number of MMOs over the years, and I was never as excited about an MMO at release like I was for GW2. This game has so much potential that is just squandered on bull kitten.

If I have made an error in any of this post, please let me know. Believe it or not, I want to be disproven. I want the community to tear my writting apart and make me look stupid. Please tell me I am just missing somthing!

I like exploring and I’m glad this is included as end game content. I find dungeons boring so I’m glad I’m not required to play them. I’m also glad there is a stat plateau to the gear grind.

All the things you list as not being worthy of “end-game” were continuously advertised prior to the game’s release.

So, out of curiosity… what did you actually expect that you weren’t given? It sounds like you were expecting a suprise new gameplay experience to emerge at level 80. What made you think that was going to happen?

With dungeons – I think “finding who to blame” is the wrong approach. I also think you should go and read the dungeons forum for tips, because (from what I have read) if you are repeatedly wiping then your whole group is doing something wrong.

I agree that world bosses can be very boring – stand there, dodge occasionally, spam dps at a massive health bar. I would like to see Anet try to make those fights a bit more intelligent and interesting.

its not even been out for 1 month.

I’ve been a huge fan of this game since the release. I personally love the playstyle and have enjoyed the leveling process thoroughly.

That being said, I would love to disagree with your post but it would be strictly biased. After reading your post through twice, I agree with you. I will wait for improvements because I have to give ArenaNet the benefit of the doubt since the game has only been out for a few weeks. If I don’t see ArenaNet put some effort into giving the game a bit more re-playability, then I have a feeling it will fall flat.

Your gear paragraph made me actually realize something I was missing before. I always enjoyed playing my WoW character after he obtained the staff that dropped off of the boss that nobody on the realm had killed yet. It gives a sense of pride in your character that you can’t achieve by simply buying gear from a vendor. This game may take a lot of skill, but half of the time you can’t tell who has the skill and who lacks it. ArenaNet has done a poor job, in my opinion, of allowing players to ’show-off ’ what they have achieved.

Oh and I will throw in one of my biggest annoyances so far…no enemy cast bar and the lack of a more obvious aggro indication. If they want to leave out the enemy cast bar, then they really need to make pve boss animations a bit more obvious for things that one shot clothies. These are things that should have probably been caught in beta.

Avatar.1923:

its not even been out for 1 month.

Hooray! Some people are so impatient.

and its just a game.

it wont replace your real endlife.

but really, on a more positive point.
this game is quite difficult to master.
the combats are viceral and there is a lot of powers and combos to do.
about dungeons; witout teamspeak it could be difficult, as everybody is going powpow and hitting all their cooldowns once ready.
but it would be far more efficient to use strategy, thing is… it aint easy because its tuff to communicate and it is an action style gameplay.
itll take tons of hours into the game for people to come up with strategies and post them on youtube to educate people .

Avatar.1923:

its not even been out for 1 month.

It’s true.
hopefully in a few months things will improve. I’m trying to throw in my imput to attempt to aid that process.

Ramcon.9531:

I’ve been a huge fan of this game since the release. I personally love the playstyle and have enjoyed the leveling process thoroughly.

That being said, I would love to disagree with your post but it would be strictly biased. After reading your post through twice, I agree with you. I will wait for improvements because I have to give ArenaNet the benefit of the doubt since the game has only been out for a few weeks. If I don’t see ArenaNet put some effort into giving the game a bit more re-playability, then I have a feeling it will fall flat.

Your gear paragraph made me actually realize something I was missing before. I always enjoyed playing my WoW character after he obtained the staff that dropped off of the boss that nobody on the realm had killed yet. It gives a sense of pride in your character that you can’t achieve by simply buying gear from a vendor. This game may take a lot of skill, but half of the time you can’t tell who has the skill and who lacks it. ArenaNet has done a poor job, in my opinion, of allowing players to ’show-off ’ what they have achieved.

Oh and I will throw in one of my biggest annoyances so far…no enemy cast bar and the lack of a more obvious aggro indication. If they want to leave out the enemy cast bar, then they really need to make pve boss animations a bit more obvious for things that one shot clothies. These are things that should have probably been caught in beta.

I agree with the enemy “cast bar” thing. It would make rolling in pvp more thought out. That is a different topic though, so I’m not goign to elaborate.

its gonna be hard, since its an action game, to have “efficiency stats” and stuff like that.
its difficult to know “whos the king of kings”.
a game like “eve” made it possible because the world is ruled by the players, mostly.
if anet can find a way to make some players “known” in their respective servers for whatever exploit.
and maybe give these players the ability to give out quests to others, or having some “server unique” recipes for crafting (only them can craft it), or i dont know, but a way to make “god players” getting known in the world.

How are you people reading up on Guild Wars 2 before buying it and suddenly being shocked when you find out that the game is exactly like ANet said it was be? If you were keeping on on the game’s development, if you were reading what ANet was saying for the past 3 years, you should have known that what you’re looking for is completely absent from GW2. “The Endgame Reimaged” was just an amalgam of information that ArenaNet has been giving us about the game’s content since it was announced.

So why didn’t you know this stuff? Why did you buy this game thinking that the “endgame” was going to be like every other MMO out there? Why didn’t know know that the combat gets rid of the trinity? How do you not know that traits and a chosen build aren’t the only determining factor on how good a player is, that they avoided those “cookie-cutter” layouts you look for in party members in WoW on purpose because a person’s build doesn’t determine how good they are at the game? And for that matter, how did you not know that this game is more skill-based than gear-based or spec-based?

I’m pretty sure you lied about “scouring the web for a glimpse of this game’s content for the last 2 years”, because if you did, you wouldn’t be surpirsed upon learning that this game is exactly what ANet said it would be.

Dungeons: If a GROUP is dying, then you blame the group. It’s not any one persons fault that the 5 people in your party were unable to quickly get to your party member, and give him that 3-5 second click to get them out of the downed state.

There is no “aimlessly attacking” in dungeons, well; I guess there are if you want to set yourself up to fail. Personally, when it comes to dungeons, I am constantly in motion, dodging, planning my attacks, figuring out when a good time to unleash my melee and swap to range is.

Since this game is designed to allow build diversity, there is no right or wrong with how someone else picks their traits. It depends on how that person likes to play the game.

World Bosses: are expected to be some what easy for the most part, I mean hell you have tons of people zerging it down. I’d like to see you stand in one place on some of the dragons though. You will be dead so fast.

Questing/Exploring: How would you propose they do it? It’s already totally innovative. I, like many others personally love the way they do the events in this game. Sure some may be run of the mill Kill X, but do you expect EVERY SINGLE quest in the game to be different from one another? You do realize that it is a physical impossibility, don’t you? Sadly, like EVERY single game that will ever release, these quests will be there. They are filler quests. Guild Wars 2 brings plentiful variety to quests.

Gear: And that’s exactly how this game was advertised. Don’t blame ArenaNET because you failed to do your homework.

sPvP: I haven’t done enough to comment.

WvW: Yes, there may be lots of zerging involved, but zergs don’t matter if the other server is communicating with each other and has better tactics than your server. There is lots of strategy in WvW, you just need to get in there and learn.

All in all though, you claim lack of end game, but I see it as this:

There are 32 different possible dungeons you can do at 80
There is WvW which is endless combat / fun
sPvP
I highly doubt you have 100% world completion
You don’t craft or haven’t crafted, there is something else you can be doing to work toward.
Plenty of fun/crazy events in the world that I’m sure you haven’t even seen.

something like the corporations in eve, its an interesting concept.
giving forts or something to god players. with rules the can set.
but obviously your only a god if you have followers

DusK.3849:

How are you people reading up on Guild Wars 2 before buying it and suddenly being shocked when you find out that the game is exactly like ANet said it was be? If you were keeping on on the game’s development, if you were reading what ANet was saying for the past 3 years, you should have known that what you’re looking for is completely absent from GW2. “The Endgame Reimaged” was just an amalgam of information that ArenaNet has been giving us about the game’s content since it was announced.

So why didn’t you know this stuff? Why did you buy this game thinking that the “endgame” was going to be like every other MMO out there? Why didn’t know know that the combat gets rid of the trinity? How do you not know that traits and a chosen build aren’t the only determining factor on how good a player is, that they avoided those “cookie-cutter” layouts you look for in party members in WoW on purpose because a person’s build doesn’t determine how good they are at the game? And for that matter, how did you not know that this game is more skill-based than gear-based or spec-based?

I’m pretty sure you lied about “scouring the web for a glimpse of this game’s content for the last 2 years”, because if you did, you wouldn’t be surpirsed upon learning that this game is exactly what ANet said it would be.

This is pretty much what I was gonna say

JazzyJay.1367:

Avatar.1923:

its not even been out for 1 month.

Hooray! Some people are so impatient.

Can you be anymore of a fanboy?

Patience for what? they have not communicated with anyone about the subject.

All they have done is made a list of little things most enthusiasts have already done (Explore, craft ect ect) all done. now what? PvP with only a rank grind and no real long lasting or good rating mechanics?

Realm v Realm’s effects on the world are so minor.

PvE dungeon Crawling is non existant due to the horrible grind, lack of cleverly designed boss mechanics…. and only 1-2 80 dungeons… 1500 token grind is FUN FUN FUN.

I don’t care if you and all the other defenders are “having a blast leveling ,wouldnt change a thing” … what you think we didn’t think the same thing? we loved it too. problem is, it doesn’t last long.

“buh buh make another character” WHY? its an MMO I want my main to acheive great things… but the only things you can achieve at the moment on this is killing 350+ bosses in the same dungeon for 1 set of gear (no weapons ect) or lifelessly grind mats for a slightly flashier no stats legendery weapon.

The more people that hit 80 will demand to know whats going on in arena nets head. they have made a persistant online MMO here, not an online action rpg like guild wars 1. They knew what they were getting into and I hope to god they have something in the works for all of us end-gamers.

or this is going to be a short 1-time wonder.

MrsAngelD.6971:

DusK.3849:

How are you people reading up on Guild Wars 2 before buying it and suddenly being shocked when you find out that the game is exactly like ANet said it was be? If you were keeping on on the game’s development, if you were reading what ANet was saying for the past 3 years, you should have known that what you’re looking for is completely absent from GW2. “The Endgame Reimaged” was just an amalgam of information that ArenaNet has been giving us about the game’s content since it was announced.

So why didn’t you know this stuff? Why did you buy this game thinking that the “endgame” was going to be like every other MMO out there? Why didn’t know know that the combat gets rid of the trinity? How do you not know that traits and a chosen build aren’t the only determining factor on how good a player is, that they avoided those “cookie-cutter” layouts you look for in party members in WoW on purpose because a person’s build doesn’t determine how good they are at the game? And for that matter, how did you not know that this game is more skill-based than gear-based or spec-based?

I’m pretty sure you lied about “scouring the web for a glimpse of this game’s content for the last 2 years”, because if you did, you wouldn’t be surpirsed upon learning that this game is exactly what ANet said it would be.

This is pretty much what I was gonna say

Only it makes no sense, no where have they said there won’t be an end-game, they just stated that the content will be good from the start. a persistant MMO still requires the end-game…….

I wish ArenaNet would release a graph of the levels across all characters, just to shut up the people that have been playing a ridiculous amount and now have nothing left because they played-out launch content that would last quite a while for anyone with a life outside the game.

Birdy.4816:

JazzyJay.1367:

Avatar.1923:

its not even been out for 1 month.

Hooray! Some people are so impatient.

Can you be anymore of a fanboy?

Patience for what? they have not communicated with anyone about the subject.

All they have done is made a list of little things most enthusiasts have already done (Explore, craft ect ect) all done. now what? PvP with only a rank grind and no real long lasting or good rating mechanics?

Realm v Realm’s effects on the world are so minor.

PvE dungeon Crawling is non existant due to the horrible grind, lack of cleverly designed boss mechanics…. and only 1-2 80 dungeons… 1500 token grind is FUN FUN FUN.

I don’t care if you and all the other defenders are “having a blast leveling ,wouldnt change a thing” … what you think we didn’t think the same thing? we loved it too. problem is, it doesn’t last long.

“buh buh make another character” WHY? its an MMO I want my main to acheive great things… but the only things you can achieve at the moment on this is killing 350+ bosses in the same dungeon for 1 set of gear (no weapons ect) or lifelessly grind mats for a slightly flashier no stats legendery weapon.

The more people that hit 80 will demand to know whats going on in arena nets head. they have made a persistant online MMO here, not an online action rpg like guild wars 1. They knew what they were getting into and I hope to god they have something in the works for all of us end-gamers.

or this is going to be a short 1-time wonder.

Did you see the part about the game not even being out for a month yet? Lighten up. ArenaNet has stated there is more to come!

Wait…you haven’t even tried WvW but are critiquing it in your original post? Sorry, zero credibility.

Did you not read about the game before you decided to get excited about it? It’s been known for months and months that (1) endgame gear is stat capped and stat capped gear is easy to obtain, (2) there would be a longish grind for cool looking gear and legendary weapons, (3) there were dungeons in the game but they weren’t a main focus, (4) endgame is mostly focused on W3, which was described in ways that make it very similar to DAoC’s endgame and style of PvP. None of this was hidden, and none of it should have come as a surprise to you. I think you probably ought to have researched the game a bit more before committing to it.

I love this setup because I like exploration, I hate endgame gear castes, and I like DAoC style PvP, but I also know that GW2 isn’t for everyone. One thing that was interesting in all the pre-release hype was that many people were getting excited and coming into the bandwagon without really understanding much about it other than “it’s the new big MMO” — which may be true, but it has a design vision that puts it at odds with the tastes of many MMO vets who like the existing model for MMOs — something that Arena’s vision was trying to distance this game from, and did so.

Birdy.4816:

Realm v Realm’s effects on the world are so minor.

Do you mean you think the only reason to WvW is for the Realm effects?

Birdy.4816:

PvE dungeon Crawling is non existant due to the horrible grind, lack of cleverly designed boss mechanics…. and only 1-2 80 dungeons… 1500 token grind is FUN FUN FUN.

Sounds really boring to me. Why do it at all if you already have crafting at max level?

If you don’t like exploring, sPvP, WvW and levelling alts what made you pick this game to play? What would make your end game fun – better dungeons?

Traits: http://www.arena.net/blog/play-your-way-jon-peters-on-traits-and-attributes

Non-trinity combat: http://www.arena.net/blog/jon-peters-talks-combat

A general outline of the game: http://www.arena.net/blog/is-it-fun-colin-johanson-on-how-arenanet-measures-success

Blog post written back in February proving that people knew there was going to be no traditional endgame before the game was released: http://www.darkademic.co.uk/blog?id=202

So one more time for good measure, for everyone complaining about how game doesn’t have x feature or doesn’t play y way: Grats on being an uninformed buyer. You have nobody to blame but yourself for thinking this would be another WoW clone.

crewthief.8649:

Wait…you haven’t even tried WvW but are critiquing it in your original post? Sorry, zero credibility.

I’ve done a lot of WvWvW. I never said that I didn’t…

Sorry but everything you say is true

This is GUILD WARS, not RAIDZORZ. If you bought the game with anything in mind for end game other than PvP, that is your issue. Next time research your choices pre-purchase.

Tired of these end game complaints from PvEers.

DusK.3849:

Traits: http://www.arena.net/blog/play-your-way-jon-peters-on-traits-and-attributes

Non-trinity combat: http://www.arena.net/blog/jon-peters-talks-combat

A general outline of the game: http://www.arena.net/blog/is-it-fun-colin-johanson-on-how-arenanet-measures-success

Blog post written back in February proving that people knew there was going to be no traditional endgame before the game was released: http://www.darkademic.co.uk/blog?id=202

So one more time for good measure, for everyone complaining about how game doesn’t have x feature or doesn’t play y way: Grats on being an uninformed buyer. You have nobody to blame but yourself for thinking this would be another WoW clone.

It doesn’t have to be a WoW clone for there to be progression at 80. That’s the problem, there is literally no more character progression, nothing for you do to anymore once you hit 80. What are we expected to just keep re-rolling new toons, exploring the same content because we already did all of it on our level 80? And also buy more character slots just so we can play and get every class to 80… Haha, what a joke.

The game is lacking, severely, stop trying to defend whatever delusion you have of it’s current state.

Birdy.4816:

Only it makes no sense, no where have they said there won’t be an end-game, they just stated that the content will be good from the start. a persistant MMO still requires the end-game…….

They’ve elaborated in some detail their ideas about what “endgame” means to their design vision — right here: https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/the-endgame-reimagined/

I’m a PvE’er, and I’m not complaining.

Then again, I didn’t power through what would be been months of content for people with lives outside the game in a week.

DirtyHoudini.2917:

It doesn’t have to be a WoW clone for there to be progression at 80. That’s the problem, there is literally no more character progression, nothing for you do to anymore once you hit 80.

What like a gear treadmill? You know, that thing ANet said years ago wouldn’t be in the game?

Apotheosis.3786:

Questing/Exploring:
WvWvW:
You can find other people talking about this. I can see how it has the potential to be fun sometimes, but I could never get into it. My pvp tastes loathe the zergy unstructured mess. I havn’t met anyone who likes this, pvp’er or pve’r

So it’s zergy but noone likes it. How come there are players there to make it “zergy” then?
WvWvW is a ton of fun, and since you clearly haven’t tried it you shouldn’t talk about it.

Still waiting for a post that clearly states the problems, and doesn’t rage about it, your start was promising but then it resulted in a rant, to bad.

DusK.3849:

Traits: http://www.arena.net/blog/play-your-way-jon-peters-on-traits-and-attributes

Non-trinity combat: http://www.arena.net/blog/jon-peters-talks-combat

A general outline of the game: http://www.arena.net/blog/is-it-fun-colin-johanson-on-how-arenanet-measures-success

Blog post written back in February proving that people knew there was going to be no traditional endgame before the game was released: http://www.darkademic.co.uk/blog?id=202

So one more time for good measure, for everyone complaining about how game doesn’t have x feature or doesn’t play y way: Grats on being an uninformed buyer. You have nobody to blame but yourself for thinking this would be another WoW clone.

No traditional endgame does not mean no endgame at all. I have been looking into the game long before it’s release, watched hundreds of videos. People have been taken offgaurd.
Let me use a metaphor. People were tired of their little blue towel. It was wet and couldn’t dry them off anymore. People were promised a new red towel, that would dry in a more innovative way than the little blue one. They order the towel. They open the towel and see how new and red it looks. Then they try to use it when they get wet only to discover the towel is made of cardboard. Sure cardboard absobs water… but why!

The title should really read the frustrations over the lack of raiding. That is what the vast majority of these threads are about. And I have a hard time believing that people claim they have researched the game before buying and then complaining about this fact. We have known about no instanced raiding for over 2 years.

knightblaster.8027:

Birdy.4816:

Only it makes no sense, no where have they said there won’t be an end-game, they just stated that the content will be good from the start. a persistant MMO still requires the end-game…….

They’ve elaborated in some detail their ideas about what “endgame” means to their design vision — right here: https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/the-endgame-reimagined/

You do realize that post is very new. No one bought the game after reading that post and reached lvl 80 yet. All the news actually going into detail about their shell of an endgame is brand new.

Creeper.9360:

The title should really read the frustrations over the lack of raiding. That is what the vast majority of these threads are about. And I have a hard time believing that people claim they have researched the game before buying and then complaining about this fact. We have known about no instanced raiding for over 2 years.

I never claimed to want raiding because I don’t. It just wouldn’t work with this games combat system at all.

Fox.3469:

Apotheosis.3786:

Questing/Exploring:
WvWvW:
You can find other people talking about this. I can see how it has the potential to be fun sometimes, but I could never get into it. My pvp tastes loathe the zergy unstructured mess. I havn’t met anyone who likes this, pvp’er or pve’r

So it’s zergy but noone likes it. How come there are players there to make it “zergy” then?
WvWvW is a ton of fun, and since you clearly haven’t tried it you shouldn’t talk about it.

Still waiting for a post that clearly states the problems, and doesn’t rage about it, your start was promising but then it resulted in a rant, to bad.

I already stated that I have played it. My original post doesn’t even suggest than I haven’t. Stop making baseless assumptions.

Unlike most MMOs, the content of the leveling process in GW2 is actually fun. Instead of stacking the tiny amount of fun content into the end, hidden behind hundreds of hours of boring tripe, you get fun content from the start all the way to 80. The point of the game isn’t to get to max level and THEN do content for fun. Play it like any other NON MMO game where you enjoy the game from the beginning.

Most MMOs have a lazy button mashing combat system combined with slot machine loot grinding and use the “end game” gear grind as a crutch for the fact that the game isn’t even fun.

If you played through the game and logged a couple hundred hours, you got more out of your $60 for GW2 than you’ll get out of 5-6 typical triple-A $60 titles combined.

Personally I’m fine with the fun content being distributed throughout the game instead of having to slog through 80 levels of boring combat and stupid walls of text to get to a tiny “end game” that’s only viable for people with no responsibilities (such as work, family etc.).

Not to mention that “raids” in those other games are less about challenging combat and encounters than the challenge of enduring the tedium of organizing 25 people to mash their number rows and avoid the occasional AoE.

Apotheosis.3786:

I never claimed to want raiding because I don’t. It just wouldn’t work with this games combat system at all.

What would you like to see at end game that it doesn’t have, then?

Apotheosis.3786:

You do realize that post is very new. No one bought the game after reading that post and reached lvl 80 yet. All the news actually going into detail about their shell of an endgame is brand new.

It really isn’t. Or, to be more specific, that post is new, but the information inside isn’t. If it were, blogs wouldn’t have been written about ANet’s reinterpretation of endgame months before release, a practically carbon-copy of the “new” post he just linked.

To those who complain:
- Have you explored the whole map?
- Did you kill all dungeons bosses in explore mode?
- Have you participated in every world event?

Apotheosis.3786:

knightblaster.8027:

Birdy.4816:

Only it makes no sense, no where have they said there won’t be an end-game, they just stated that the content will be good from the start. a persistant MMO still requires the end-game…….

They’ve elaborated in some detail their ideas about what “endgame” means to their design vision — right here: https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/the-endgame-reimagined/

You do realize that post is very new. No one bought the game after reading that post and reached lvl 80 yet. All the news actually going into detail about their shell of an endgame is brand new.

That post is new, but it was clear during the development phase that the endgame wasn’t going to be endless progression, but was going to be like Guild Wars was: easy stat capped gear, PvP, grinds for vanity looks, and the new element of DAoC W3. This was certainly very clear to me. Had the game instead had the typical MMO garbage of endless stat progression and gear castes at the endgame I would have been quitekitten because that isn’t what Arena had told us all along about the endgame.

DirtyHoudini.2917:

DusK.3849:

Traits: http://www.arena.net/blog/play-your-way-jon-peters-on-traits-and-attributes

Non-trinity combat: http://www.arena.net/blog/jon-peters-talks-combat

A general outline of the game: http://www.arena.net/blog/is-it-fun-colin-johanson-on-how-arenanet-measures-success

Blog post written back in February proving that people knew there was going to be no traditional endgame before the game was released: http://www.darkademic.co.uk/blog?id=202

So one more time for good measure, for everyone complaining about how game doesn’t have x feature or doesn’t play y way: Grats on being an uninformed buyer. You have nobody to blame but yourself for thinking this would be another WoW clone.

It doesn’t have to be a WoW clone for there to be progression at 80. That’s the problem, there is literally no more character progression, nothing for you do to anymore once you hit 80. What are we expected to just keep re-rolling new toons, exploring the same content because we already did all of it on our level 80? And also buy more character slots just so we can play and get every class to 80… Haha, what a joke.

The game is lacking, severely, stop trying to defend whatever delusion you have of it’s current state.

Dude, it’s GUILD WARS. GUILD. WARS. Arena was very clear that this was going to be a GUILD WARS game, which means that it isn’t about endless vertical progression at all. Not their philosophy of design, at all, and they were clear about this during the development phase. You want a more traditional MMO — that’s fine, there are plenty around.

This topic is about the endgame. Not the leveling process. Yes the leveling process was done better than most MMOs, but a better leveling process does not make for a better MMO.

It is an issue of simple taste. If you are a more casual gamer. The simple quest completions may make the game for you, but the game was hyped up to have depth. The dynamic events are hardly dynamic at all.

This isn’t runescape or maplestory. There was obviously an expectation of an endgame after the leveling. Denying that is just ignorant.

knightblaster.8027:

Had the game instead had the typical MMO garbage of endless stat progression and gear castes at the endgame I would have been quitekitten because that isn’t what Arena had told us all along about the endgame.

Amen to that! I don’t want an endless stat progression. I want fun gameplay. I don’t play games to watch numbers go up, as that’s just a glorified clone of ProgressQuest (in other words, insanely mind-numbingly boring).

Apotheosis.3786:

This topic is about the endgame. Not the leveling process. Yes the leveling process was done better than most MMOs, but a better leveling process does not make for a better MMO.

It does make a better MMO, because it makes a better GAME. Seriously, in no other genre would it be acceptable for a game to be utterly boring for 100+ hours so that you can get to the “end game” where the “real game starts”. Any non-MMO that tried that would be an instant commercial failure. And frankly, it’s no longer acceptable for MMOs either.

Having a game that’s fun from level 1 to 80 is by definition a better game than one that bores you to tears for the entirety of its leveling content, all so you can experience a tiny amount of “end game” content repeated ad naseum due to astronomically tiny drop rates.

Those things are the hallmarks of a tedious game not a good one.

Apotheosis.3786:

This isn’t runescape or maplestory. There was obviously an expectation of an endgame after the leveling. Denying that is just ignorant.

Or it could be that you’re just wrong and making stuff up at this point. It was WELL KNOWN years before release that GW2 would not have an endless max-level gear grind. You’re being ignorant of reality trying to claim otherwise.

Also, thank goodness it doesn’t have one, since it’s one of the worst designs in the history of video games, solely designed to suck money from your pocket. Good riddance.

Apotheosis.3786:

This topic is about the endgame. Not the leveling process. Yes the leveling process was done better than most MMOs, but a better leveling process does not make for a better MMO.

It is an issue of simple taste. If you are a more casual gamer. The simple quest completions may make the game for you, but the game was hyped up to have depth. The dynamic events are hardly dynamic at all.

This isn’t runescape or maplestory. There was obviously an expectation of an endgame after the leveling. Denying that is just ignorant.

Obviously an expectation on your part, not necessarily everyone else. Did you every play GW1? It is like the same thing but better! Instead of stopping at 20, you stop at 80. Including WvW, GW2 has really gone over the top.

JazzyJay.1367:

Apotheosis.3786:

This topic is about the endgame. Not the leveling process. Yes the leveling process was done better than most MMOs, but a better leveling process does not make for a better MMO.

It is an issue of simple taste. If you are a more casual gamer. The simple quest completions may make the game for you, but the game was hyped up to have depth. The dynamic events are hardly dynamic at all.

This isn’t runescape or maplestory. There was obviously an expectation of an endgame after the leveling. Denying that is just ignorant.

Obviously an expectation on your part, not necessarily everyone else. Did you every play GW1? It is like the same thing but better! Instead of stopping at 20, you stop at 80. Including WvW, GW2 has really gone over the top.

I did play GW1. Sorry everything about that game was much deeper.

Apotheosis.3786:

This topic is about the endgame. Not the leveling process. Yes the leveling process was done better than most MMOs, but a better leveling process does not make for a better MMO.

It is an issue of simple taste. If you are a more casual gamer. The simple quest completions may make the game for you, but the game was hyped up to have depth. The dynamic events are hardly dynamic at all.

This isn’t runescape or maplestory. There was obviously an expectation of an endgame after the leveling. Denying that is just ignorant.

I guess the end game is literally just WvWvW, so if you get all your satisfaction from zerging opponents than great!

Apotheosis.3786:

JazzyJay.1367:

Apotheosis.3786:

This topic is about the endgame. Not the leveling process. Yes the leveling process was done better than most MMOs, but a better leveling process does not make for a better MMO.

It is an issue of simple taste. If you are a more casual gamer. The simple quest completions may make the game for you, but the game was hyped up to have depth. The dynamic events are hardly dynamic at all.

This isn’t runescape or maplestory. There was obviously an expectation of an endgame after the leveling. Denying that is just ignorant.

Obviously an expectation on your part, not necessarily everyone else. Did you every play GW1? It is like the same thing but better! Instead of stopping at 20, you stop at 80. Including WvW, GW2 has really gone over the top.

I did play GW1. Sorry everything about that game was much deeper.

I would agree some things did have more depth, but an enormous amount of that depth came with the factions and nightfall expansions adding 4 additional classes. Those 4 classes really twisted things up.

redacted by moderator, quoted text has been moderated

You say “there’s no end game” because there isn’t an endless stat grind, then claim you don’t want an endless stat grind. You’re simply not making sense.

Also, it was well well known LONG before the game released that it wouldn’t have an endless gear grind at max level (you apparent definition of “end game” content). So yes, everyone is saying the same thing because you keep saying nonsensical junk over and over.

There are plenty of games where the only thing to do at max level is to watch some numbers increase vs. actual fun content (which you yourself admit to not having completed). ProgressQuest is a prime one, as well as of course World of Snorecraft.

It sounds like those games would be perfect for you since you want to watch numbers go up endlessly. Sorry GW2 doesn’t have what you imagined (and continually ignored the design plans for, given that you keep claiming there wasn’t any mention of the whole game as end game content thing, despite it being posted numerous times well before release).

OP mentioned he understood that game has only been out a few weeks, so there’s not much left to say. I’m sure the devs will work in some post-80 content in the coming weeks/months.

This same thing happened in SWTOR…I’m sure it’s in TSW, too. People consume the launch content faster than the devs can imagine, and within weeks (days??) the players are drumming their fingers, expecting the content level of WoW.

It really does behoove someone to understand what they’re investing in before they invest in it. MMOs are long term investments, and long term investments tell us all the dividends won’t be on the table on day 1.

redacted by moderator, as the quoted text has been moderated

Must make it easy to believe that everyone trumping you is somehow lower. XD

Seriously, answer this question, since you “did your homework” (I still don’t believe you did, because you’re complaining about a lot of stuff we knew about years ago): What did you think the “endgame” was going to be?