Guild Wars 2

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My advice is never have high expectations of a newly released MMO, and not to go around expecting some intangible new gameplay that you haven’t experienced before :P

Instead it’s better to read up on something specific that will be available and say to yourself “when I reach end game I’m going to do [x] until I get bored of it.”

If you do this you will rarely be disappointed. Sometimes you will even be pleasantly surprised.

Anet are offering what they originally promised. If you don’t like crafting, exploring or grinding for pretty gear, and you find the sPvP repetitive, then it sounds like there isn’t much in this game to interest you.

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I thought it was going to be what they promised. Something new and innovative. No game designers elaborate into that much new detail about how things will be exactly. They compare it to other games and say what they are going to do differently or similarly. When I bought GW1, I never knew about the amazing GvG. I just heard about great pvp dynamics. When I bought WoW, I never knew how raiding worked exactly. I just knew there were a lot of people working together to fight bosses. When I bought SWTOR I was told about how the story would resonate in everything. I didn’t know how. When I bought GW2 I was told of change. I didn’t see anything about deletion of vital dynamics.

Apotheosis.3786:

I didn’t see anything about deletion of vital dynamics.

What “vital” dynamics have been “deleted” other than endless stat progression?

IMHO, The game is a mess, it’s fun but more of a jump on and just do w/e kind of fun. Dungeons are just a mess of spam all the AoE’s, PvP is the same, PvE and world bosses are the same. For a company that stated no one likes having to grind over and over and over, I find myself grinding world bosses and “endgame” DE’s over and over and over just to get some gear. They stated that they didn’t want going back to help lowbie friends to feel like a chore, yet it costs me more in travel expenses to go help them than the rewards for doing DE’s with them give, yet I’m being scaled down to their level to help?

Apotheosis.3786:

I thought it was going to be what they promised.

They promised that the endgame would be the game content itself, that you’d be able to go back and enjoy lower-leveled content with it still being a decent challenge and getting appropriate gear and similar rewards, that all dungeons would be a challenge after 80 and doing them could yield unique rewards regardless of level, etc etc. They delivered. You didn’t read when they said all that stuff? It was a while ago. Here, lemme find you a few links so you can read some of the many, many things you missed while you were “doing your homework”.

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Okay, then there’s already plenty of end game content in the game. Maybe you should go play some of it. If endless stat progression is truly not what you claim you want (despite your posts all implicitly saying so), what sort of “end game” is it you had in mind? If doing the content is not enough for you I don’t know what you expected. A magical wizard that will suddenly make you have fun despite not wanting to play the game?

Cawesome.1580:

IMHO, The game is a mess, it’s fun but more of a jump on and just do w/e kind of fun. Dungeons are just a mess of spam all the AoE’s, PvP is the same, PvE and world bosses are the same. For a company that stated no one likes having to grind over and over and over, I find myself grinding world bosses and “endgame” DE’s over and over and over just to get some gear. They stated that they didn’t want going back to help lowbie friends to feel like a chore, yet it costs me more in travel expenses to go help them than the rewards for doing DE’s with them give, yet I’m being scaled down to their level to help?

You are being scaled down so you can help, not obliterate all of the content in the zone. How would other playes feel if some big guy just rolled in and leveled all of the events before anyone could get there? It would wreck the game.

Seriously, the whole gear treadmill thing is quite literally the only thing missing in GW2’s “endgame.” The content’s there. Saying you can’t go hit up Blazeridge Steppes after leveling through Kryta and down to Orr all the way to 80 is just daft. If you don’t have your 100% map completion and a few sets of epic dungeon armor yet, you’re in no position to be complaining about how there’s “no content left”.

I love the fact this game is not yet another rehash of the Raid or forever be second class MMO. I love the fact that there is no real gear treadmill and that stats level out in order to promote competative PvP. I love the fact that “EndGame” is not a destination but is integrated into the overall experience.

Above all, I love the fact that this game is different. Devs, don’t change a thing.

Well I have some new insight about the player community. I suppose my effort wasn’t worthless. I have to stop posting now because moderators keep sending me infractions… later.

Apotheosis.3786:

Well I have some new insight about the player community. I suppose my effort wasn’t worthless. I have to stop posting now because moderators keep sending me infractions… later.

You aren’t the only one. Don’t think it is so one sided.

DusK.3849:

Seriously, the whole gear treadmill thing is quite literally the only thing missing in GW2’s “endgame.” The content’s there. Saying you can’t go hit up Blazeridge Steppes after leveling through Kryta and down to Orr all the way to 80 is just daft. If you don’t have your 100% map completion and a few sets of epic dungeon armor yet, you’re in no position to be complaining about how there’s “no content left”.

This exactly. The lack of gear treadmill is one of the best things about the game, since instead of grinding some stupid instance 10 billion times, I actually have a reason to go out and adventure in the world, in order to play the content.

Is anyone that is complaining purchasing anything from the cash store? No? Well you have nothing to complain about- yet.

The game just released, and you put in how many hours to get to the end? You probably got your moneys worth. Let them work out the bugs, and make sure the base game is running smooth.

After a month or so they will announce the future plans for the game and probably talk about some upcoming content releases- at that point, if nothing is being said about additional end game content, then you have something to complain about.

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Even then it’s not really a justified complaint. I’ve been 80 for days and I still have plenty of stuff to do.

Regarding the statement on the last page(which I cannot quote for some reason) by Apotheosis:
“You do realize that post is very new. No one bought the game after reading that post and reached lvl 80 yet. All the news actually going into detail about their shell of an endgame is brand new.”

Watch the Manifesto again… Watch any interview they have ever given about the game again… This has been the entirety of their communication about the game from day 1. I thought that it was ridiculous that they needed to post that blog in the first place, because as far as I was concerned they had already stated it thousands of times over the past several years.

Also, I’m having no problems with the end game at all, because my approach to the end game thus far has been to slowly work my way towards the Legendary Weapons and the Dungeon Sets, while regularly going off for diversions in the low/mid level zones where I either repeat content or discover content that I missed. The Meta-Events throughout the game meet all my expectations of what the “end game” should be, and since I am not just going around the Lvl 70+ zones over and over, I don’t feel like I am grinding. Treat Tyria like a living world, and you will be amazed at how well the design works. Don’t spend all of your time in the same zones. If you get bored doing something or feel like it is a grind, go to another zone and enjoy that content. There is more content there than you probably think…

My beef with PvE currently is that many lesser world bosses are more fun to fight than the bigger ones.There is a giant that attacksa town in Diessa Plateau that stomps every few seconds and takes half your life away if you dont avoid the attack.For me it was the best outside boss fight i’ve been in.It was intense,people fell down all around you and you had to coordinate your dodges,your resses and your damage in order to beat the giant.

On the other hand you have the shatterer whos mechanics feel non existant.

If they’re going to borrow something from raids,I’d say give the big outside bosses detailed mechanics.Give them phases.Anything but this static behaviour they have now.Also make them harder than they are now.People should fail if they’re not good enough as a group.Dragons should be dangerous creatures and a rewarding foe to take down,not a guaranteed lootchest every three hours.
And please change that too while we’re at it.You have a brilliant mechanic with the shadow behemoth where players must cooperate to unlock the event,why not the shatterer and Tequati?Why not have the fight act like a dynamic event itself?

Immagine Tequati coming out of the sea and a group of players fights him on the beach.They fail so he flys to a stronghold on the map and starts razing it.If you fail all the stages then most major strongholds are filled with risen and the dragon flies off.Then players have to clear the strongholds and start working on the map conditions that will provoke the dragon to come back.I understand that having no timer on dragons might cause a massive influx of players on these zones but I’m sure that some sort of failsafe can be thought of.

this game is 60$! even if it ends at lv 80 (witch it dosnet) i got my moneys worth. im having a blast with the story ill most likey play all the class`s and see the story form tons of angles. ill expolre the world see the admzing vistas enjoy talking with ppl, and as i do this arena.net will add more stuff for me to do for free! honetsy for as much as they given us for 60$(and are planing to give us) asking for more is just plain greedy!

I’ll admit, as a bit of a disclaimer, that my highest level character is only 41, so I’m prepared to be summarily dismissed by some but here’s what I think on this.

I love the concept of what ArenaNet is trying to do with “endgame”. In fact, it’s their approach here that convinced me to plunk down my $60 when every MMO I’ve ever tried has ultimately proven to me that MMO isn’t really my genre of game, What I see here is an attempt to make a game in which the reason to do something is because you actually want to do it. You do it because it’s fun for you. This is a novel concept in the realm of MMO gaming. In other games the reason to do something is the carrot on a stick that the developer dangles in front of you by way of new shiny gear to help rofl-stomp the people who failed the inevitable “gear check” that getting said shiny presented. This game’s “end game” is about having fun, not racing to the largest ego, in my opinion. This also offers the secondary effect of never making any part of the game functionally irrelevant because the treadmill keeps you locked into only the newest zone added to the game.

I respect the OP’s point of view, I just don’t share it. As a far more casual player, and one who enjoys tackling personal in game goals without having to spend 3 weeks trying to find a group of people whom I can tolerate and who will put up with me, I find GW2’s approach to be brilliant.

-EDIT-

Ahh… So that’s what this whole “kitten” thing is about.

DusK.3849:

How are you people reading up on Guild Wars 2 before buying it and suddenly being shocked when you find out that the game is exactly like ANet said it was be? If you were keeping on on the game’s development, if you were reading what ANet was saying for the past 3 years, you should have known that what you’re looking for is completely absent from GW2. “The Endgame Reimaged” was just an amalgam of information that ArenaNet has been giving us about the game’s content since it was announced.

So why didn’t you know this stuff? Why did you buy this game thinking that the “endgame” was going to be like every other MMO out there? Why didn’t know know that the combat gets rid of the trinity? How do you not know that traits and a chosen build aren’t the only determining factor on how good a player is, that they avoided those “cookie-cutter” layouts you look for in party members in WoW on purpose because a person’s build doesn’t determine how good they are at the game? And for that matter, how did you not know that this game is more skill-based than gear-based or spec-based?

I’m pretty sure you lied about “scouring the web for a glimpse of this game’s content for the last 2 years”, because if you did, you wouldn’t be surpirsed upon learning that this game is exactly what ANet said it would be.

THIS! I am so sick of seeing people saying they feel ‘cheated’ because the endgame isn’t what they were promised. They were never ever ever promised that the endgame would be anything like anything they have ever done before ever. This is not a shock and if it is, it means you came into the game expecting it to be like every other MMO you have played. You are wrong.

I guess I’m lucky in that I dislike raiding. Also have always will. I’ve been a GM longer than some here have even been alive, but, to keep my guild mates happy I’ve raided.

So it was a breath of fresh air to see that’s not really the case here. The end game here is what I’d do in other games, PvP.

That said, wvwvw I find…like you say, a mess and a zerg fest, and sPvP has so few maps, and to be honest, it gets VERY boring playing a match with rogues and warriors with the occasional mesmer in. Today I kid you not, 5 warriors, 4 rogues. It’s like this always.

I can beat them 1v1 and I can even beat them in packs, the problem is, I feel FORCED (ranger) to spec a build I don’t really enjoy with low damage out put both in burst/dps but decent survival. It saddens me to see my spirits 1 shot by an AoE from either of these classes though.

If I go full on damage, I don’t do close to what these classes do, unless I choose to go melee, but then I get absolutely shredded. So while I have no issue in PvP with surviving and killing, I have issues in feeling forced to spec into things that aren’t fun, just to compete. Hell, even after trying both those classes myself, I see my class has knockoff abilities that they have, yet in every case worse (Spinning axes for example, warriors can move, I can not) Shortbow for rogues, they have the same evasive shot just tied in with better addons to it, along side no cooldown while being able to pull it off 2-3 times and initiative regaining faster than mine has a cooldown.

If I want to play a spec I enjoy to make it work I need to go to wvwvw where it shines, but alas, that problems already been discussed.

So I both can and can’t agree with you. Especially the lack of sPvP “battlegrounds”

The game is pretty much as the developers said it would be.

WvWvW is great, so add me to your list of ‘’people who like it’’ that is pretty much endless content i will never get tired of, and ‘’it has too small of a effect on server’’ was said by someone, who cares? You get to show your server>other peoples server, that is why you wvwvw not some stupid rewards.

Gear not being a huge grind is only good.

leveling in this game is amazing, and in no way a grind, especially if you play with friends the leveling is nothing but non stop fun, its hard to stop xD

The game is what the devs said it would be, only way to be dissapointed is if you were making your own dreams instead of what the game is supposed to be.

I’m glad GW2 “end-game” doesn’t end with dungeon instances and enchant grinds unlike other mmo’s.

There really is no traditional “end-game” for GW2 in that sense, since at anytime a player can go do something else via event or exploration.

I loved the leveling process from 1 – 80. Hands down, best experience I’ve ever had leveling in an MMO.

Jumping Puzzles: Something I’ve been interested in since RIFT and quite enjoyed those too.

sPvP: Fun but repetitive. I’ve encountered very skilled players and I’ve encountered players that think standing there pressing a 1, 2 combo is going to win them the game.

WvWvW: fun but pointless really. Why does you world need these bonuses? To help you farm gear to sit around in Lions Arch looking classy? There is no further benefit than this.

Guilds + WvWvW: So you own a keep do you? Pointless. No benefit to the guild.

Dynamic events: Amazing! Good fun, Karma rewards need to be justified properly though.

End Game: Non-existant. There isn’t much to do once reaching 80.

I feel that whatever i do in this game has no cause, no consequence to others, no meaning. This game has the potential to be the best out there. The graphics make me all greasy with glee. The story adds a more interactive element to the game. The PvP system is to be adored.

You need proper gear tiers and some form of end game that a guild or body of well organized people can work towards. Currently players are hitting 80 and wondering what to do, where to go. I wasn’t aware of the lack of end game until i actually hit 80.

I don’t understand why GW2 and the dev team are avoiding tiered gear. Exotics are so easy to get and the only place they grant an advantage is dungeons and WvWvW (Which doesn’t really matter considering the zergfest). sPvP can remain the same but you should definitely have a proper gear system. It would keep me pushing towards a goal and interested in the game.

i love WvW
i spend most of my daily playtime there
it’s my end game

So many people seem to think that vertical progression is all that matters. You’ve been conditioned by the myriad of bland, uninspired loot treadmills on the market. Fix yourselves or go get your fix elsewhere, but stop trying to turn this game into another one of those.

ArenaNet delivered exactly what they promised, and I can’t say that for any other MMORPG on the market today.

Thank goodness the gear treadmill is gone. Grind for your shiny legendary if you choose, but it is only for looks. Do “X” raid dozens of times to gear up 10 people before moving to the next raid to do it all over again is pain staking. I am enjoying the what little emphasis gear has on the experience, and the persistent need to measure everyone and everything by it. Good riddance.

I’m a bit surprised (well, not really), at all the complaints about the game when it hasn’t even been out for a full month. Give the game some time to develop. Other MMOs weren’t 100% finished when they were released either. It’s the reason we have patches, updates, expansions, etc. This is not the final game, so try to have a little bit of fun.

I completely agree with this post!

The MAIN reason for playing MMOs is to obtain new and unique items and grow stronger and stronger even after you reach the level cap

Doing 5-10 quests to obtain “the best” armor in game is simply STUPID! It goes totally against everything the MMO genre stands for. What I love in MMOs is to struggle with an insane hard dungeon or raid and then get rewarded by something unique that is not worn by every fifth warrior or guardian i see around.

Metanoiance.3820:

The MAIN reason for playing MMOs is to obtain new and unique items and grow stronger and stronger even after you reach the level cap

Another uninformed consumer.

No, that’s the main reason you play MMO’s. Definitely not the rest of us who don’t care for boring gear treadmills. Gear treadmills that (and I’ve lost count of how many times I’ve said this) we’ve known for years wouldn’t be in this game.

Apotheosis.3786:

I like many of you learned about Guildwars 2, and was sold instantly. I have been scouring the web for a glimpse of this game’s content for the last 2 years as it was slowly revealed. The game came out and I began the leveling process. I remember thinking “hey this story is pretty well done for a start in building up to the end game”. I remember being occosionally interupted by a “dynamic event” while trekking from heart to heart and picking up every vista and point of interest. I though “this beats the leveling process of most mmo’s I have played”. My only critisisms of the leveling process was the large amount of kill quests, and how the quests seem to lack depth. That is fine for pre-endgame content. It wouldn’t really be an mmo of leveling wasn’t a grind.
I reached level 80, and was extremely excited to see what the endgame held. I didn’t really see much going on, so I assumed it was just because of the lack of people at 80. Then I read the post named “The Endgame Reimagined”. It was a complete slap in the face. It essentially said, the endgame and leveling are exactly the same. I was livid and felt cheated. In the past week a few posts defending the “endgame” have been poping up, and each one has the opposite of the intended effect. The endgame is a shell of what it should be. Below I’m going to eloborate on why I think each aspect of “endgame” needs work.

Dungeons:
The lack of anyone having a defined role makes it impossible to distinguish who is doing good or bad because they could appear to be doing anything. Healing and support are tied in to offensive abilities. When a group is dying, how do we know who to blame. When a group is thriving, how do we know who to think and to learn from. Winning or losing, everyone appears to be just aimlessly attacking and running around like chickens with their heads cut off. There is abolutely no structure. There is no way to see if someone’s gear/triats/utilities make any sense without interviewing them. I have played with a group in skype/vent, and tried to coordinate. Interviewing people to get just 5 decent players was a nightmare, and anything that was accomplished through our planning could have easily been acheived without. Combo feilds don’t have to be planned… they are just there. CC is so short that attempting to line them up would require someone dictating everyone while speaking at the speed of an auctioneer.
My final and strongest complaint about the dungeons are the waypoints. Dying over and over only to run back to the same fight is completly ridiculous.

World Bosses:
These are even worse than dungeons. As a caster, I can just stay my 1200 range away and spam a few abilities. Dodging is rarely required, and you can usually just sidestep when it would be useful. Adds have a short aggro range, so if you take a few steps in any directions they will leave. Without any cast sequence or priorities, this large scale model is simple and boring. If you are meelee, you are at an extremely large disadvantage. It is much more dangerous near an enemy than far away even if you’re behind them. The way these bosses behave is worse. They act as if no one is there and simply attacking places randomly. A few seconds of observation should clue you in on the places where you shouldn’t stand because the boss really hates the dirt in that area and feels compelled to smash it over and over.

To Be Continued…

GW2 is not for you go back to….===>that way.

Oh and on side note you don’t know how to enjoy and play a mmo thats why you whine.

Some people really need to learn to play for fun, and maybe get some friends. A computergame should never replace your dayjob.

I’m new to guild wars (didn’t play the first) but I can assure you I got what was advertised and they haven’t disappointed yet, well besides how bad the market is right now (seriously, everything is sold for like nothing on there) but other than that yeah got what I signed up for. What I find more surprising is how all these people are getting to 80 so fast, and on top of that come to forums and complain, I just don’t understand the logic behind it. Anyway, sounds to me like this isn’t the game for you, Apotheosis. You seem to have an issue with the entire game from what I just read, might be better to just move on instead of torture yourself with something you really don’t seem to enjoy.

“You seem to have an issue with the entire game” exactly what I’ve felt reading the original post: he might just as well take a break from the game for the meantime

Several of the things you complained about in the post were willful decisions on the developers’ part and won’t be changing any time soon.

Metanoiance.3820:

I completely agree with this post!

The MAIN reason for playing MMOs is to obtain new and unique items and grow stronger and stronger even after you reach the level cap

Maybe for you, but for the rest of us MMOs are much more than just endless gear grinds and mailbox heroes. I happen to think it’s awesome that this game is NOT about endless raiding. I love the fact that maximum stat progression is easily obtainable which in turn eliminates those issues in PvP and lets strategy and teamwork become the determining factor. I love the fact that the “gearscore” mentality is totally unnecessary here.

If gear is the one and only thing you value in your MMOs then there are many other games out there that focus on that model. For the rest of us that are tired of that old and tired regurgitate, this game offers a lot more.

From what i recall reading in beta, the devs have no interest in pve content. That this was a PVP game and there would be nothing for pve progression.

So far there is nothing.

Dungeons that do not have equal reward vs difficulty. Dungeons only serve the purpose of crafting legendaries, no drop gear better than crafted/mystic forge gear. The difficulty is not on par with the reward.

No character progression gear wise after crafting best gear, other than crafting legendary gear that requires 1200$ worth of gems (heard someone did it yesterday in LA chat) or a lot of player help/guild help to make… current costs of the raw matts equal up in the 800g range on TP if you don’t want to farm, massive grind of zerg events for 2m karma, and dungeon grinding.

World events are the only pve content given, which are nothing but zerging boring events for karma and insufficient drops.

Pretty much, PvE is non existant and im pretty sure again that they do not plan on doing anything about it other than more world events.

WvW, fun as it is, is nothing more than an Alteric Valley where they at least made it right and work. Though in the end it too is nothing but a zerg vs zerg where you beat your head into a meat grinder and respawn to do it again.

Havent done too many tourneys since i am not personally a pvp fan, but it seems the only real challenging pvp in the game.

I have two lvl 80’s now, Warrior and Elementalist. As fun and damage as a warrior does, he cannot meele in either pvp or pve without a shield which nullifies his damage. Elementalist is pure crap with damage and survivality. Both are decently geared and i am very bored.

If you want PVE content your best bet is wow, which is getting more and more dumbed down with each expac.. comming from a BC player, or Rifts upcomming expansion in november. Thats where i will be going.

Overall it isnt a bad game for a non sub, ive spent more time on this game than the gameplay life of most console games which have equiviliant cost. It was fun to level up but that was about it. After the shine of a new game to explore and gear up, which was rather easy, i have 100% world complete after day 8 of prelaunch on warrior and 78% world complete as soon as i hit 80 on my elementalist yesterday, i find myself sitting around town.

Still decent… 284 hours played over 21 days for the cost of the game before i became over with it. Will probably casually play til november with friends that still hold this game high and havent hit 80 with nothing to do yet, but this is no PvE MMO. It feels more like diablo 3 if they made it into an MMO and took away gear grinding elites/bosses.

Some people are just so deeply stuck in the “EQ/WOW clone” endgame mindset that they will have a hard time adapting to GW2. But people who played games like UO or AC1 will feel at home in a game where the pace doesn’t suddenly change at max level and doesn’t force you into groups/raiding with no other options.

Look, the endgame has always quite clearly been… that you get to continue playing the same game you played from levels 1 to 79. This shouldn’t be a problem for anyone who’s still playing by the time they get to level 80 because obviously you’ve enjoyed it up to that point, otherwise you would have quit playing. I mean, nobody in their right mind spends over 100 hours on an activity they don’t enjoy without getting paid for it.

Given the size of the world and the nature of dynamic events, even when you hit 80 there’s still a lot of stuff out there you haven’t seen yet even without sPvP and WvW to throw into the mix.

Grakk.8254:

… i have 100% world complete after day 8 of prelaunch on warrior…

… 284 hours played over 21 days…

That’s the source of your “problems”. You played a video game 13 hours a day for 3 weeks. I won’t go into the “get a life” comments, since one can just take a break for a new game release and your life is not my business, but NO game developer can keep up with someone who spends more time playing the game than doing his “real life” duties.
You’ve burned yourself out. You can’t blame ANet for that.

If youre dying and looking for someone to blame you best look in a mirror…no one is there to carry you, you are responsible for yourself.

That being said I am thinking this is really nothing but a troll post…you claim you have followed the game for 2 years then complain about things that are the very core of GW2.

I seriously cannot believe the fanboyism in this thread, it’s absolutely preposterous.

I read up extensively read up on the GW2 combat mechanics, and it seemed like a revolutionary breakthrough, what I didn’t expect was the disastrous implementation of such ideas. Even the highest level dungeons rarely incorporate boss fights with anything more than “dodge when you need to, and pound on the boss until it’s dead”.
And it’s totally unacceptable.
For those of you criticizing the people who have already gotten to level 80, what do you seriously expect them to do? Sit around and farm hearts and dynamic events all day? Kill X of Y, kill X and bring me Y, defend X from Y, is not acceptable endgame content, and it is completely indefensible for ANet to pretend like it is.

So, with all that you have seen about Guildwars 2 before release Metallripper an with all you knew about Guildwars 1 you honestly thought that Gw2 was going to be a Pve Game and not a PVP centric game with some Pve added? Really? Well… it so happens I have a bridge you might care to buy, it´s really cheap…

Some people obviously fail to realize that an MMO is long-term time investment, and the leveling process, unless you’re a casual gamer, is trivial and constitutes only a small portion of that time. Thus, only once the leveling is done, the real game begins. It’s here, at the top level, where you’ll spend the majority of your time in the game. It’s the content at the top level that will determine if you’ll keep playing the game, or move on.

It is certainly great that ArenaNet has made the leveling fun, but that in no way is a replacement for the endgame content.

I have about 140 hours on my ranger, and I’ve had a lot of fun playing it, so it’s an excellent value for the money, but I don’t really see in what way I can progress now.

Leveling alts is out: other ranged classes feel inferior and melee doesn’t appeal to me. Grinding for cosmetic items seems ridiculous, WvWvW is too chaotic, sPvP is uneven. Dungeons are all about mowing down ridiculously fat mobs with weak mechanics, near one-shots, and occasional running back from waypoint — and the worst thing about that is that with no vertical gear progression I know this won’t ever improve.

I haven’t completed personal story yet, and haven’t explored all the areas, so I’ll definitely keep on that, and it’ll be fun, I’m sure. But after that it’ll be time to move on.

Metalripper is right, fanboyism is clouding a lot of judgement. Endgame or lack there of is just sad to say the least. About 30-40% of all events or skill points in the Orr regions are bugged, and if going around the world to help friends and others is also endgame why is it that my rewards for doing them is significantly lower than those in Orr? The only logical thing to do is grind the DE’s in Orr to maintain repair costs, and waypoint fares. DE’s are just classic WoW quests in disguise, sorry to break it to you but they are, they only got rid of the go talk to so and so part, and just forced some letters on your screen that say go kill X centaurs. After watching their manifesto and playing the game to 80, and doing a lot of suggested tasks people have mentioned it’s sad that there’s no real PvE endgame. We have a few dungeons that are hard the first time, then after that they’re cake. Spoiler Zhaitan, the “first” final boss for us…..was a joke, the fight was to easy, to cookie cut, just plain boring. For those saying that PvP is a good chunk of the endgame, some people don’t like to PvP some people like to just PvE and the other way around. It just seems after watching and following all the news for this game, they really failed to live up to it.

Ok.. im trying really hard not to tell you to just go back to “that other game” as I said before.. how could anyone with half a brain expect this to be a PVE centric game?
At least to me it was obvious that PVP would be the core of Gw2 and that this game would cater much more to the PVP crowd. You want a PVe centric game? Theer is plenty of those.. play one of them. See if having one raid every year (or half year if its rift ) is that mch more interesting. I bet you´ll find yourself standing in the capital beeing bored as well

A few things, mostly echoing what others have said:

1) ArenaNet “cheated” no one, since they’ve been shouting from the mountaintops for years about their philosophy. Anyone who thought differently was just uninformed.

2) I feel bad for the OP saying he “leveled by running from one heart to the next, sometimes being interrupted by events”. This is, simply, a huge shame. This game really rewards exploring and anyone who just rushes past it all will miss a lot.

3) “Character progression” is overrated, and absolutely not necessary. Sure, you want to have a goal to achieve, but why does it need to make you stronger or better? Just have fun doing what you’re doing.

4) If someone had fun exploring, doing events, hearts, finding vistas, dungeons, etc all while leveling…. why is that suddenly NOT acceptable once you’re 80? How is the fun sucked away once you’ve gotten there, and why should you expect anything different? It just baffles me.

Wow the levels of fanboy myopia are large in this thread.

Anet have repeatedly said they are against “grinds” yet 80 is a choice of the following;

Grind karma doing the same events over and over (not fun)
Grind karma in WvWvW over and over (not fun)
Grind poorly designed dungeons over and over (not fun)
Do SPvP – which is fun in truth

Grind grind grind grind grind. I’ll be honest i’m playing for less minutes every day. That said, i enjoyed the levelling process and enjoyd the story so i don’t feel i wasted my money on the game.

Some people always want content beyond the content that is in a game. Even if you are a hardcore gamer, I seriously doubt you have already finished all the content (puzzles, crafting, all heart quests, all vista’s, all points of interest, all pvp objects, all achievements, all dungeons on every level).

I think people want “enjoyable” content.

I suppose searching for Vistas and points of interest is “enjoyable” to some. But not to many.

What happened to playing the game just to have fun and not playing it simply to get the next best piece of gear? If you don’t have fun PvP’ing then why would you have fun PvP’ing for gear? If you don’t have fun in raids then why would you have fun if it gave you better gear? If you don’t like doing the DE then why did you level up through them at all? Basically, if you don’t like anything the game offers, then why did you play it all the way to 80? If the game was fun before 80 doing all these things then how did it suddenly become not fun once you reached an arbitrary number?

Those saying there is nothing to do at 80 are mostly looking for the carrot on the stick, or gear progression. Well, there isn’t one, they just want you to have fun doing what you had fun doing all the way to 80 or maybe try out some new things you didn’t do that much. If none of that interests you I guess log off. Tiers of gear and endlessly trying to get the next best thing to make your character more powerful than the next is not what is happening.