Guild Wars 2

Everyone i know plays this way and its making the game very boring and easy in all aspects of the game ( Except Spvp ) which is boring for other reasons

Do you plan to make healing and support builds viable for groups ?

Because of the full dps and dodge approach , its making other equipment/runes/sigils/traits/builds just not worthy , this is whats making the game boring !!!

That would only promote he holy trinity play style.
Sorry but anets vision is all for one, zerker for all.

Zerker is being reworked. It will mostly like change pretty soon.

Is this a parody thread?

A change to how critical damage works was announced. Everyone who owns ascended Berserker equipment is worried about whether their equipment will now be worthless.

Personally, I think it won’t be so bad. Yes, I expect critical damage will be toned down (or at least the effectiveness of bonuses to critical damage). But no, this should not “nerf” Berserker builds into oblivion. Instead, it should only bring them down a little, to be on par with different stat combos.

In short, Berserker equipment should not be better (more synergetic) than nearly all other item stat combos, but it should not be worse either. Players should be encouraged to consider different builds than Berserker, without feeling pushed out of Berserker.

DPS Wars 2.

Nerfing crit damage doesn’t make any other build more viable. Making other builds more viable makes other builds more viable. Period.

If the formula for how critical damage works is changed, this would also apply to NPCs and mobs, thus lessening damage from critical hits by enemies, and improving the relative quality of defensive stats against damage spikes.

If the word Berserk has any meaning in GW2, the spec should not have precision because you are at frenzy state. You would be powerful, forceful but not in a clear mind to do thing with accuracy. My 2 cents

Battledoll.1803:

If the word Berserk has any meaning in GW2, the spec should not have precision because you are at frenzy state. You would be powerful, forceful but not in a clear mind to do thing with accuracy. My 2 cents

Which is why Power is the primary stat….

You’re looking for assassin which has Precision as it’s primary.

The issue isn’t and will never be the gear, it’s the content. Gimping Zerker stats is a bandaid fix to a solution that requires major surgery.

Nerfing zerker to the point of uselessness will not only make people in full ascended zerker gear rage quit, but it will also bring other problems as mentioned by other posters.
I, myself feel that if they nerf zerker I will probably not play anymore. Why grind for months to get BiS gear that is going to be useless by some future nerf?

Nerfing Crit damage will just make Berserker not as good. It’ll still be the best.

It’s only ruining Assassin’s, which only affects min/maxers anyway.

With the mitigation the game provides – dodging, aegis, reflects – instead of having a trinity, there is always the one set that loses defense for offense.

It’s like in RPGs since the dawn of time – being able to drop your shield – a defensive option – to dual wield, for more offense.

People asking for offensive geared players is NOT going to change.

spoj.9672:

All is vain.

Maybe, just maybe, there was a reason the trinity existed for so long and in so many games? Getting rid of it completely might not have been a good idea for an RPG? Which I find interesting is that Anet is advertising GW2 as an MMO only now. The RPG is even missing on ads now.

Bagel.4598:

That would only promote he holy trinity play style.
Sorry but anets vision is all for one, zerker for all.

A-net specifically stated that the trinity in this game is (or rather is supposed to be) DPS, Control, Support, although not as drastic as in other games. In other games if tank or healer is abscent you completely can not do the content, their intention here was to make the content still passable, but not optimal. This is where the errors in content design have been made as they designed it wrong in the fact that all content is optimized for DPS only, ignoring the control and the support.

There have been numerous dev posts made to this account in the past, though most quite a long time ago, also, its been stated in 1 or 2 video interviews, you can google it and see for yourself.

So it seems they are going to go back to the original vision of including support and control roles in the future content. The viability of zerker will not change, you will still be able to complete it in group of 5 zerkers, but you will be able to complete it better in a group of DPS/Control/Support.

Also to throw anotehr wrench into this equation is the viability of condition DPS specs. Currently zerker is optimal because of the 25 stacks limitation on things like bleeds, 1 single stack of burning and poison, etc. So if you get 2-3 Condi DPS builds in 1 group, its pretty bad. Remember, the original vision was for DPS / Control / Support, not specifically 5x direct DPS.

This affects most of us, almost every time I run a dungeon I would love to do it on my necro or mesmer, but when I join a group and ask if there is any condi DPS present (and there is maybe 75% of the time), if there is, I have to switch to my guard / war because otherwise my DPS will not count. I should not have to do that.

In addition I strongly suspect they will improve boss fight AI and remove some of the “Control Immunity” from bosses instead, this is a great thing as the control builds will become usefull. This will not kill zerkers, you will still be needed for DPS, but may make it so that you have to actually use your skills other then to stack might and quickness and may need to switch 1-2 traits in your trait lines.

So there will be some L2P issues on part of zerk only players.

DeWolfe.2174:

Maybe, just maybe, there was a reason the trinity existed for so long and in so many games? Getting rid of it completely might not have been a good idea for an RPG? Which I find interesting is that Anet is advertising GW2 as an MMO only now. The RPG is even missing on ads now.

Most RPGs existed without the Trinity…mostly MMOs have the trinity. It’s not necessary for an RPG and I even argue it’s killed the whole concept of what an RPG should be.

When you funnel people into roles, you take away their freedom.

Those who focus on mechanics, will always take the most efficient route.

Those who focus on role-playing (the root of the words RPG), will take the route that they enjoy the most.

I believe more people in Guild Wars 2 actually play what they want, rather than min-max…but the min-maxers as a unified group are far more visible.

Bagel.4598:

That would only promote he holy trinity play style.
Sorry but anets vision is all for one, zerker for all.

Even if anet made “Tank” and “Healer” OP that WOULDN’T promote holy trinity play style.
In games that depend on it it’s almost impossible to find healers, let alone in GW2.

The truth is most (and I mean 90% or more of the) players will go for DPS, even in a holly trinity game, and here you have one that tried to break the norm and what do they do? They make DPS the most viable way to play as if players needed any more incentive.

Tongku.5326:

In addition I strongly suspect they will improve boss fight AI and remove some of the “Control Immunity” from bosses instead, this is a great thing as the control builds will become usefull. This will not kill zerkers, you will still be needed for DPS, but may make it so that you have to actually use your skills other then to stack might and quickness and may need to switch 1-2 traits in your trait lines.

I do wish they’d implement stuff like this. Smarter AI in general would be great. Give normal enemies deadlier skills, such as nasty hexes that should be interrupted. What if enemies could cast things like this: http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Panic. Let them attack faster, let them dodge more.

Some bosses should be given skills that are crucial to interrupt to encourage people to bring CC, perhaps relying on good timing (e.g., boss telegraphs a big attack that is very difficult to avoid after it’s cast, but has a short window where interrupts ignore defiant).

There should be strong enemy healers that position themselves intelligently, encouraging tactics beyond stacking and making poison more useful. Mobs should scatter when they get AOE/cleave, like some did in GW1, another way to encourage CC.

Enemies that move very quickly and erratically, never staying in one place, would encourage people to bring snares, roots, stuns.

Making the enemies fight better is a good way to move away from a pure DPS meta, better than tweaking damage numbers.

Decrypter.1785:

Everyone i know plays this way and its making the game very boring and easy in all aspects of the game ( Except Spvp ) which is boring for other reasons

Do you plan to make healing and support builds viable for groups ?

Because of the full dps and dodge approach , its making other equipment/runes/sigils/traits/builds just not worthy , this is whats making the game boring !!!

1) Full zerk isn’t the easiest to play, I’d argue it is the hardest because getting hit once usually means death. Therefore, bad players faceplant when they sacrifice all defense for offense and good players are rewarded by being able to do amazing dps. Working as intended.

2) Support classes and builds are viable. See: Nader Engineer, Guardian, Mesmer. Just because all of these run full Zerk/Sin doesn’t mean they aren’t support. Skill applies here too: if you can avoid taking damage by skillful play you don’t need training wheels (tanky stats). Healing Power will never be a good stat because bosses and trash mobs hit so hard that no amount of healing will save you from getting gibbed in 5 seconds. Also, it can’ be buffed too much because it will break WvW.

3) Are you really saying being skilled in the game makes it boring? Well… I don’t know what to say. For me active defense (dodges and blocks etc) is a billion times more fun than passive defense (tanky stats).

They better not nerf crit damage; if anything it needs buffing against tanky targets.

In a full dps zerker build; often criting a complete tanky target won’t do more than 800 damage; yet that tanky target can hit you for over 800 which doesn’t make sense.

If they intend on re-working how crit damage works, it needs to have a minimum damage instituted with a max.

For example, against a full tanked target.. a hit of 800 is unreasonable, but perhaps a 1300 damage hit is (at minimum). As of now, a zerk hitting another zerk build can hit up to 7000.. now I can see that as being unreasonable. So fix crit damage so the ranges are at minimum 1300 and maximum of 5000 (depending on how much toughness you have).

Vayne.8563:

I believe more people in Guild Wars 2 actually play what they want, rather than min-max…but the min-maxers as a unified group are far more visible.

See… that’s what the talk over Zerker is right now, we aren’t. It’s min-max all the way in PvE. Thus, there is only one role really.

Bagel.4598:

That would only promote he holy trinity play style.
Sorry but anets vision is all for one, zerker for all.

+1

Decrypter.1785:

Everyone i know plays this way and its making the game very boring and easy in all aspects of the game ( Except Spvp ) which is boring for other reasons

Do you plan to make healing and support builds viable for groups ?

Because of the full dps and dodge approach , its making other equipment/runes/sigils/traits/builds just not worthy , this is whats making the game boring !!!

Good luck running rally bot full zerk in WvW. Zerk is much more viable in spvp than in wvw, where it is completely useless except for trolling (mainly your own team).

Nowhere has arenanet said the zerker will be nerfed so just sit tight and wait for tomorrow’s stream.

DeWolfe.2174:

Vayne.8563:

I believe more people in Guild Wars 2 actually play what they want, rather than min-max…but the min-maxers as a unified group are far more visible.

See… that’s what the talk over Zerker is right now, we aren’t. It’s min-max all the way in PvE. Thus, there is only one role really.

Well I think that’s my point. The people who talk about stuff like that in forums are min-maxers. However, we also know, from experience not just here, but elsewhere, that only a tiny percentage of the player base every visit the forums and only a small percentage of the people who visit post.

I don’t min/max AT ALL. So what am I going to post. I’d recommend playing this build because I find it fun?

There’s no real point in posting that since it’s completely subjective. I have a guild of 150 people and I think maybe three guys min/max….maybe. And not even them fully. Most of the guild isn’t working zerker gear, I know that for a fact.

It’s just not that kind of guild. And none of them post on forums but me.

Asko.4120:

Nowhere has arenanet said the zerker will be nerfed so just sit tight and wait for tomorrow’s stream.

Their modus operandi is usually to weaken something used far more than the alternatives rather than examine why the environment allows for the discrepancy in the first place.

It’s also much easier to weaken zerk than it is to change the game content to favor other stat setups equally or more so in certain situations.

It’s not a guarantee but it’s the pony to bet on if you want to play it safe.

DONT NERF MY CRITICAL DAMAGE, my d/D ROAMING SPEC MUST LIVE ON! :

There is absolutely nothing wrong with Berserker, it has been pointed out for a long time already, and should be pointed out until Anet realizes it.

The problem is with dungeon/PvE design in general, there is very little point in defensive stats and builds when you can just avoid most of the damage. PvE isn’t boring because everyone is wearing ‘zerker’, PvE is just boring. You wear ‘zerker’ to make the boring stuff go by faster.

What is needed, is a dungeon revamp, not a nerf for Berserker.

I bet that the new world bosses are designed to punish zerkers harshly.

timidobserver.7925:

I bet that the new world bosses are designed to punish zerkers harshly.

Teq already is such a fight, so it’s a safe bet the new ones will also be like that, however the main problem is with dungeons.

Ensio.8172:

timidobserver.7925:

I bet that the new world bosses are designed to punish zerkers harshly.

Teq already is such a fight, so it’s a safe bet the new ones will also be like that, however the main problem is with dungeons.

You should be able to finish Teq in zerker if you dodge and move properly. The biggest damage are the waves, and those are quite easy to avoid. I imagine that the new world bosses will punish zerkers harshly with no way to avoid/dodge it.

timidobserver.7925:

Ensio.8172:

timidobserver.7925:

I bet that the new world bosses are designed to punish zerkers harshly.

Teq already is such a fight, so it’s a safe bet the new ones will also be like that, however the main problem is with dungeons.

You should be able to finish Teq in zerker if you dodge and move properly. The biggest damage are the waves, and those are quite easy to avoid. I imagine that the new world bosses will punish zerkers harshly with no way to avoid/dodge it.

That doesn’t actually solve the problem though and it’s counter intuitive to do that in a game that revolves around kiting and dodge rolling. Why have the system at all if we are subjected to unavoidable damage bursts? They need to design content to punish poorly played glass cannons or people who try to do it on classes/builds that can’t spam dodges and blocks, not gc’s as a concept. The mobs need to move and attack in unpredictable ways without massive telegraphing that screams “PRESS X TO NOT DIE!” like some big multiplayer game of God of War.

Substance E.4852:

timidobserver.7925:

Ensio.8172:

timidobserver.7925:

I bet that the new world bosses are designed to punish zerkers harshly.

Teq already is such a fight, so it’s a safe bet the new ones will also be like that, however the main problem is with dungeons.

You should be able to finish Teq in zerker if you dodge and move properly. The biggest damage are the waves, and those are quite easy to avoid. I imagine that the new world bosses will punish zerkers harshly with no way to avoid/dodge it.

That doesn’t actually solve the problem though and it’s counter intuitive to do that in a game that revolves around kiting and dodge rolling. Why have the system at all if we are subjected to unavoidable damage bursts? They need to design content to punish poorly played glass cannons or people who try to do it on classes/builds that can’t spam dodges and blocks, not gc’s as a concept. The mobs need to move and attack in unpredictable ways without massive telegraphing that screams “PRESS X TO NOT DIE!” like some big multiplayer game of God of War.

If you read my posts, I never said it solved anything. I simply stated that they would probably adjust these bosses to punish those with little to no defensive stats and make it unavoidable.

Serriusly, if you nerf critical damage i will quit the game.

I don’t think critical damage is the only problem here. I think the problem is that because they want to do away with the trinity they intentionally made tanking and healing weak in this game and because every profession has damage, healing and condition removal and there are mechanics like dodging, reflection, stealth, corner stacking, downed state it makes very little sense to take defensive stats because you get 1 or 2 hit by most bosses anyway unless you dodge. Even if they nerf critical damage people would still take only offensive gear, maybe condition damage would become more popular but I don’t think people would ever take healing and defensive gear. If they make true tanking and healing viable then that would contradict their manifesto so I don’t think there is a solution for this problem.

Sundar.1735:

I don’t think critical damage is the only problem here. I think the problem is that because they want to do away with the trinity they intentionally made tanking and healing weak in this game and because every profession has damage, healing and condition removal and there are mechanics like dodging, reflection, stealth, corner stacking, downed state it makes very little sense to take defensive stats because you get 1 or 2 hit by most bosses anyway unless you dodge. Even if they nerf critical damage people would still take only offensive gear, maybe condition damage would become more popular but I don’t think people would ever take healing and defensive gear. If they make true tanking and healing viable then that would contradict their manifesto so I don’t think there is a solution for this problem.

The problem is that healing is pointless if you have no damage. And the way the enemies behave, particularly bosses, is that you need to have at least significant base damage to play at all (unless you’re running in a group the entire time with at least one DPS person, which makes it more like the trinity). I mean, you can’t stand there and heal an enemy to death, can you? Sure, you can not die, but you can’t kill him either. So there is a reliance on DPS. Defense, that is necessary, but again, only if you also have DPS, otherwise you don’t ever move anywhere. And since the best defenses of all are still available on heavy DPS classes (eg Warrior), there’s really only a very short path of logic to take until you conclude that the most efficient profession to use is a Warrior in Berserker gear. Not necessarily the most fun (depends how you’re wired), but certainly the most efficient if you know how to use your defense skills well.

It’s not that they made tanking and healing weak … they could make them stronger and we’d have the same problem. They definitely made control weaker (mostly because most bosses have Defiant), and healing isn’t as strong as it might be simply because everyone has access to a self-heal. It’s just that DPS remains the cornerstone because any other kind of attack (like condition damage) is capped out. And, since you HAVE to have DPS to play this game solo (as they intended for it to be possible to do), you need to focus on DPS.

Vayne.8563:

DeWolfe.2174:

Vayne.8563:

I believe more people in Guild Wars 2 actually play what they want, rather than min-max…but the min-maxers as a unified group are far more visible.

See… that’s what the talk over Zerker is right now, we aren’t. It’s min-max all the way in PvE. Thus, there is only one role really.

Well I think that’s my point. The people who talk about stuff like that in forums are min-maxers. However, we also know, from experience not just here, but elsewhere, that only a tiny percentage of the player base every visit the forums and only a small percentage of the people who visit post.

I don’t min/max AT ALL. So what am I going to post. I’d recommend playing this build because I find it fun?

There’s no real point in posting that since it’s completely subjective. I have a guild of 150 people and I think maybe three guys min/max….maybe. And not even them fully. Most of the guild isn’t working zerker gear, I know that for a fact.

It’s just not that kind of guild. And none of them post on forums but me.

Spot on with my experience as well. I am a min-maxer in a min-maxer guild. A relatively small guild, I’d say less than 50 active players, but roughly 25% of them are active in the forum.

I’m also in a large casual guild, about 150 active players. There are less than 10 I know that run zerk builds, even then only 1 besides myself who runs meta builds. I am the only member who regularly posts in the forums.

Min-maxers are a minority do seem to be a minority. They are also people more likely to run dungeons.

ALl ANET needs to do is raise the STUPID 25 stack MAX for condition.

witch is basically a BAD programing flaw they cant fix. rolf . ANET you suck

the problem is that in pvp, all builds /are/ balanced. even pve soloing everything all builds are balanced. So if they made a particular build stronger, then it’s not balanced. Conditions from multiple people is bugged, but that’s another issue. The issue you are seeing is that people are lazy and just want simple damage without worrying about tactics. you wouldn’t believe how many times I see berserker players get killed, then I’m left to solo the dungeon. That’s a prime example of non-berserker being a better build.