Guild Wars 2

Star Ace.5207:

Mr. Whiteside recently commented on his Raid CDI that he uses something else not “zerk” on PvE out of personal choice, not just due to lack of skill. That is my point. You don’t need to say “GW2 is intended to be played without passive stats if you are really skilled” in order to use Berserker’s gear-you use it because you enjoy it, it’s efficient, and is what fits your personality/playstyle (or any particular character, is what your guild rather have you use, etc.). It is basically a common myth, based on those few players that really follow the meta (as not everybody is as “meta” as they think), and not on facts about 100% of players. No need to preach it as “GW2 as intended”, because not even the makers of the game believe in that (Mr. Hrouda, or whoever.)

I know you commented on someone elses quote but I think it’s pretty unfair to search developer’s/dev’s quotes and try to interpret whether or not they wanted zerker’s to be the meta.
Try to look it this way: Is there a way to make the meta of this game non zerker? I don’t think so actually. We have the condition cap due to technical reasons. Half of the sigils and a bunch of traits depend on critical hits, so in order to make zerker the non meta the whole game would need an overhaul.

Star Ace.5207:

Why the heck they allow ascended Nomad’s, just for WvW people?

Izzy asked players months ago what stats they would want in game. Nomad won.

I don’t see this as an issue. I always find plenty of groups who do not care if you don’t roll full zerker.

Problem with zerker gear: Why use other builds since this one’s superior.

I really wish every build is equal, than 1/3 being superior…
In my opinion, giving variety on mobs stats, skills, ranks and special mechanics with proper difficulty lvls, since this way 1 build will not be the superior, but you can still defeat them with any build you desire due to proper difficulty lvls.
Not to mention that GW2 end game at this state, is pretty much farming and dressing up with IRC, which is done with berserker gear and DPS builds…

Other problem that makes use of other builds nearly impossible is Group Events in open world PvE, since mobs die too fast and never employ any “Longevity” mechanics, like active defenses, boons, proper combat builds, etc.
Usually the trash mobs are part of that event, but only berserker DPS will enjoy about 100% of the event, via the rewards, while other builds can only enjoy with the 1-5 Champion or higher rank mob of the whole event.

But my problem is more to mob designs…
Since my “Casual PvE adventurer” play style means: End game = Combat and adventure…

FrostSpectre.4198:

Problem with zerker gear: Why use other builds since this one’s superior.

I really wish every build is equal, than 1/3 being superior…
In my opinion, giving variety on mobs stats, skills, ranks and special mechanics with proper difficulty lvls, since this way 1 build will not be the superior, but you can still defeat them with any build you desire due to proper difficulty lvls.
Not to mention that GW2 end game at this state, is pretty much farming and dressing up with IRC, which is done with berserker gear and DPS builds…

Other problem that makes use of other builds nearly impossible is Group Events in open world PvE, since mobs die too fast and never employ any “Longevity” mechanics, like active defenses, boons, proper combat builds, etc.
Usually the trash mobs are part of that event, but only berserker DPS will enjoy about 100% of the event, via the rewards, while other builds can only enjoy with the 1-5 Champion or higher rank mob of the whole event.

But my problem is more to mob designs…
Since my “Casual PvE adventurer” play style means: End game = Combat and adventure…

For every build being equal you should have remove every gear set out there except one. You can’t make everything equal when they are different … Common sense.

It has nothing to do being zerker or not. Use the righ weapons with the right build with the right class and for kittens sake be social and group up …

You just constantly whine about your made up, non-existing problems and spam every possible thread you can. It starts to get seriously boring …

FrostSpectre.4198:

I really wish every build is equal, than 1/3 being superior…

I’m sorry, but this is not how things usually work in video games. You cannot just go out with random traits, random stat gear and random utilities and hope to be effective pressing random buttons. The thing is that another player who actually made an effort to learn the game and understand its mechanics will be quite more effective than you.

That means that he:
- will kill you in sPvP/WvW mode with his better build
- will be much more effective and useful for group in PvE with his better build

This is just how the things work.
Of course no one can force on you “meta builds”, you are free to run your own build no matter how useless and kittened it is. But please do not expect to be as effective as others and do not expect to be welcome into “effective meta groups”

There is another thing:
No one can inspect your build in GW2. That’s why players who “play how they want” tend to lie to their group and join it anyways despite LFG statement. This is the reason for conflicts between “meta” and “play how i want” players.

Add inspect option like it exists in sPvP and two player groups will be split naturally.

There has never ever been an MMO without a meta game, meta builds or meta tactics.

Nick.6972:

There has never ever been an MMO without a meta game, meta builds or meta tactics.

Which is the same for almost every encounter?

Tim.6450:

Nick.6972:

There has never ever been an MMO without a meta game, meta builds or meta tactics.

Which is the same for almost every encounter?

Thats a well developed hyperbole right here.

FrostSpectre.4198:

Problem with zerker gear: Why use other builds since this one’s superior.

One uses them because one enjoys them.

I really wish every build is equal, than 1/3 being superior…

Never going to happen. Not in this game. Not in any MMO.

In my opinion, giving variety on mobs stats, skills, ranks and special mechanics with proper difficulty lvls, since this way 1 build will not be the superior, but you can still defeat them with any build you desire due to proper difficulty lvls.

What’s a “proper” difficulty level? Every time ANet revises or adds a mob army, they make them harder than the launch mobs. Every time, the events featuring these mobs are outnumbered, and if they cannot be outnumbered, they’re largely ignored. Don’t believe me? Go to the middle of Iron Marches and watch what happens with the Mordremoth mob events. Every time I go there, these events are ignored.

Let’s say, though, that you get your wish for dungeon content. What will happen? There will be a new meta, which the experimenters and theory-crafters will come up with. Meanwhile, all those “play how one wants” groups that complete dungeons now will struggle.

Other problem that makes use of other builds nearly impossible is Group Events in open world PvE, since mobs die too fast and never employ any “Longevity” mechanics, like active defenses, boons, proper combat builds, etc.
Usually the trash mobs are part of that event, but only berserker DPS will enjoy about 100% of the event, via the rewards, while other builds can only enjoy with the 1-5 Champion or higher rank mob of the whole event.

This phenomenon is more a result of players outnumbering the event scaling than differences in build. I can take a full glass cannon into these events and trash mobs still melt before I can even get a hit in. Players get around this via grouping and spamming AoE where the mobs are going to appear. A large percentage of what I see in these events is staff guardians on auto attack. That’s not meta.

Other responses above, in italics.

This thread is going now way too long. There will always one geartype that is more efficient than others. Right now it’s (for the most part) berzerkers gear in PvE.
If you don’t want to deal with players who try to be as efficient as they can and who expect that from other players too, then don’t join groups looking for players using berzerkers gear and tell people who’re joining your group that your group is no zerker-meta group.
/thread

This zerker thing saddens me greatly. It encourages less diversity of game play and builds. With all this variety of new stats and new ones coming out (like Sinister’s) it makes me wonder why Anet devotes time to making new stat combos. I like the simplified game play GW2 brings for casual players, but I’d also don’t mind some thinking and creativity which is what PvE doesn’t even come close to requiring – at least most of the time.

All the new armor sets have a place, just not in PvE.
Celestial works great in sPvP, Nomand in WvW, Sinister in sPvP and WvW.
PvE is just too simple, wearing Cleric’s gear doesn’t make the battles harder, it makes the them longer.

Remember old Mai Trin pre nerf? People whined about her being too hard and 2/1 shots.
The fight were so “hard” for pugs some of them rolled their protective sets instead of zerker to stay alive longer. Even I had an instance where my team mates were dying so much I had to reroll my WvW Cleric set.
That was a well designed boss that utilized the game mechanics well, too bad most people whined about it and she was nerfed.

Kythan Myr.4719:

This zerker thing saddens me greatly. It encourages less diversity of game play and builds. With all this variety of new stats and new ones coming out (like Sinister’s) it makes me wonder why Anet devotes time to making new stat combos. I like the simplified game play GW2 brings for casual players, but I’d also don’t mind some thinking and creativity which is what PvE doesn’t even come close to requiring – at least most of the time.

Remove berserker. Remove assassin’s. Remove rampagers.

Everyone moves to the next best set of DPS gear.

How does a stat combination “encourage less diversity” when there would be the exact same amount of diversity if you removed it, and any similar to it?

And why do people throw around this “diversity” buzz word like it’s some sort of holy grail? What if diversity involves a playstyle you don’t like? What if, like in the case of GW2, we have a broad range of builds but they’re all support and DPS centric? It’s diverse but you simply don’t like the diversity offered to you.

You’re not asking for diversity at all, it’s just a buzzword to thinly veil the fact that you wish your playstyle was optimal.

Like maha pointed out this thread i s full of people trying to make it so that what they like to run was somehow the best or at least just as good as what organized professional set-up are.

It’s really sad when players stop adapting to the game in order to improve and fall to complaining in order for the game to be changed so it’s more “suited” to them.

Also – I think one of the reasons people who say the current “meta” is killing diversity is because they don’t even understand what a meta is.
They don’t run it, and have no idea what it is or what it means. I honestly believe most anti-zerker people don’t understand that there will always be a meta and it will always be the most optimal gear whatever that stat combo is.

Which begs the question – if some people understand so little of the game should we really bother replying and paying attention to them?

Harper.4173:

Which begs the question – if some people understand so little of the game should we really bother replying and paying attention to them?

Thats what PvF is all about. Fighting against the impossible.

HHR LostProphet.4801:

This thread is going now way too long. There will always one geartype that is more efficient than others.

No, there will always be one geartype that is more efficient than others for one, specific part of the game. Single dungeon, single bossfight, etc. What we have in GW2 however is one geartype that is more efficient than any other for almost whole of PvE (and i say “almost” only in case i forgot something, and because there are some small parts where gear doesn’t matter at all).

The general problem with berserker is not because it offers best dps (some gear set will always be in that place). The problem lies that the combat engine changed the “high risk high reward” case into a “High reward for risk that just maybe is a bit higher. And often is actually lower”.

Astralporing.1957:

The general problem with berserker is not because it offers best dps (some gear set will always be in that place). The problem lies that the combat engine changed the “high risk high reward” case into a “High reward for risk that just maybe is a bit higher. And often is actually lower”.

This.

I tend to play glass in games where such is available. I don’t try to claim that it makes me in any way better than anyone else. Its just what I enjoy. In my opinion, as much better expressed by Astralporing, GW2’s cannons just are not very glass.

Astralporing.1957:

The general problem with berserker is not because it offers best dps (some gear set will always be in that place). The problem lies that the combat engine changed the “high risk high reward” case into a “High reward for risk that just maybe is a bit higher. And often is actually lower”.

This is the case because the encounters in GW2 are too easy and that’s because ANet things that a large portion of their players are braindead monads (see NPE changes).
So this wont change.

HHR LostProphet.4801:

This is the case because the encounters in GW2 are too easy and that’s becasue ANet things that a large portion of their players are braindead monads (see NPE changes).
So this wont change.

After running the Labyrinth for 2 weeks I think so too actually. It was a lot of fun but NONE of those I was running with knew anything about the champ’s mechanics. So yeah, lets make all bosses harder as all people who play gw2 are pros.

So did the guy post his lupi solo yet ?

GrimmR.3541:

So did the guy post his lupi solo yet ?

Who? Me? Why should I solo a boss that was designed to be a five-men encounter only to prove my “supremacy”?
The very fact that you can relatively easy solo Lupi shows that this boss isn’t strong enough to trouble an experienced party. Lupi will wreck new players. But once they know the trick it’s easy. And thanks for picking the best designed fight in the whole game as reprentation of bad boss mechanics.

No, there will always be one geartype that is more efficient than others for one, specific part of the game. Single dungeon, single bossfight, etc. What we have in GW2 however is one geartype that is more efficient than any other for almost whole of PvE (and i say “almost” only in case i forgot something, and because there are some small parts where gear doesn’t matter at all).

And why “should” it be one specific part? What part of gaming declares that this is something that must be maintained?

You know, I’ve been playing League of Legends lately, and there’s a bunch of different items you can buy. Generally there are set builds you can go with when buying them (mages stack ability power which increases their damage, physical damage characters use items with +damage, +attack speed etc. to increase their damage, tanks get +health, +armour +magic resist etc.). Now, depending on how games go you might take a different route (oh we’re getting wrecked by casters let’s build some magic resistance rather than buff our DPS otherwise we’ll pop like a water balloon when the team fight starts) but there are generally standard routes you take. As an AP champion I basically always go deathfire grasp > rabadon’s deathcap > zhonya’s hourglass along with some small side purchases like boots, but there’s always generally a set path to take. In GW2 it’s the same, except you remove tanks from the equation and are left with, I guess the league equivalent of just your squishy spike damage classes. Therefore the natural progression is to build glass, and since you won’t be dealing with an enemy destroying you badly (most likely) you can repeat this all the time. If you do find the enemy giving you trouble, I mean there’s like knight’s gear which would be the GW2 equivalent of +armour and +magic resist.

The general problem with berserker is not because it offers best dps (some gear set will always be in that place). The problem lies that the combat engine changed the “high risk high reward” case into a “High reward for risk that just maybe is a bit higher. And often is actually lower”.

Do I like, need to link the no-dodge arah path 2 video?

Because you won’t be doing arah path 2 with no dodging in berserker gear.

It’s high risk, high reward, it’s just we’ve had mostly the same content for two years so of course most people will go glass.

This.
I tend to play glass in games where such is available. I don’t try to claim that it makes me in any way better than anyone else. Its just what I enjoy. In my opinion, as much better expressed by Astralporing, GW2’s cannons just are not very glass.

Mesmers, necros and warriors are the least glassy I feel because of massive HP and for the mesmers and warriors, evades and blocks built in to their standard weapon sets. The rest of the classes just pop like a water balloon if you’re in a dangerous situation unless you know what you’re doing.

Who? Me? Why should I solo a champ that was designed to be a five-men encounter?
The very fact that you can relatively easy solo it shows that this boss isn’t strong enough to trouble an experienced party. Lupi will wreck new players. But once they know the trick it’s easy. And thanks for picking the best designed fight in the whole game as reprentation of bad boss mechanics.

If you sit and practice a boss for 7+ hours (how long it took me to get my first solo, spread over two days) then I’d say you deserve to be able to solo it. Other people take 12+, 24+, 48+, etc. hours to learn to solo.

The fact that you can solo it is proof that the game encourages skill, and that with skill you can overcome pretty much anything as long as it isn’t strictly player-gated. This is not bad design, this is good design.

maha.7902:

Kythan Myr.4719:

This zerker thing saddens me greatly. It encourages less diversity of game play and builds. With all this variety of new stats and new ones coming out (like Sinister’s) it makes me wonder why Anet devotes time to making new stat combos. I like the simplified game play GW2 brings for casual players, but I’d also don’t mind some thinking and creativity which is what PvE doesn’t even come close to requiring – at least most of the time.

Remove berserker. Remove assassin’s. Remove rampagers.

Everyone moves to the next best set of DPS gear.

How does a stat combination “encourage less diversity” when there would be the exact same amount of diversity if you removed it, and any similar to it?

And why do people throw around this “diversity” buzz word like it’s some sort of holy grail? What if diversity involves a playstyle you don’t like? What if, like in the case of GW2, we have a broad range of builds but they’re all support and DPS centric? It’s diverse but you simply don’t like the diversity offered to you.

You’re not asking for diversity at all, it’s just a buzzword to thinly veil the fact that you wish your playstyle was optimal.

I have no play style I wish to push around. There is no veiled attempt here, no hidden agenda by me. I’m sorry if I offend you when I say I wish there was no diversity and seem ignorant of what the word means.

I play like the rest, full zerk gear and I carry around PVT for certain occasions. I’m a big fan of others playing the way they want and I hope that they do. There is no push from me here that you seem to think there is. I never implied for them to remove zerkers, I just wish that there were optimal builds for different roles utilizing the diverse stat types we have in this game.

Diversity. It’s not a buzz word. It’s a real thing lacking in GW2. I remember starting GW1 and spending time, – too much time – theory crafting builds and browsing GWPvX for all the cool ideas that people had. All the various combinations that allowed for diverse rolls to be filled. There were optimal builds on that site too, but optimal builds for diverse roles. You could contribute to your party in several different ways that evolved throughout the years, you were not just limited to DPS. Then, there was much diversity of builds.

Now I know that GW2 does not promote the same skill structure or secondary class mechanics of its predecessor, but we have similar potential in traits and gear combinations. However, check out GW2’s equivalent site of GWPvX: Metabattle. I know it’s recent, but it’s filled out nicely. If you look at most of the builds for profession they all utilize zerker gear and stats. That’s it for PvE mostly (other than world bosses). For the classes under dungeons there’s little regard for anything else. If you were a new player and had no idea what was best or what to do and happened to find that site you would quickly gear for zerkers because you want to be “optimal” too. This is unfortunate for me because I TOO want other players to feel like they can play the way they want, according to THEIR playstyle, not mine or the meta.

Funny cuz when I first traited/geared for berserker I didnt know it was meta, or the most optimal playstyle. I was just doing what I wanted. to see if it worked.

I guess arena net is somewhat right…. average gw2 player is probably brain dead if they feel the need/forced to spec for one thing and never try anything again.

Im clearly following the meta by buying the following set for my thief.

maha.7902:

If you sit and practice a boss for 7+ hours (how long it took me to get my first solo, spread over two days) then I’d say you deserve to be able to solo it. Other people take 12+, 24+, 48+, etc. hours to learn to solo.

The fact that you can solo it is proof that the game encourages skill, and that with skill you can overcome pretty much anything as long as it isn’t strictly player-gated. This is not bad design, this is good design.

That’s why Lupi is one of the two bosses I really like (Subject Alpha being the other one, just on a lower skill-required listing). With that said, I have to rephrase my last statement that Lupis is too weak. He is not, even though I think that some of his attacks could use some tweaks. Lupi is one of the bosses where you have to play by his rules or you’ll quickly die, in contrast to, lets say the TA endboss, which holds barely any risk if you bring the appropriate counter-measures. The TA endboss is one of many which don’t force the player to play by their rules, they can’t because they are too weak.

It’s a funny world when people generally get zerker gear and see it as a requirement for group content whereas you can gear stupidly and still beat the same content.

So the game doesn’t require it but the players do. Why? Cause they want to farm fast. Guess that’s all that matters.

maha.7902:

No, there will always be one geartype that is more efficient than others for one, specific part of the game. Single dungeon, single bossfight, etc. What we have in GW2 however is one geartype that is more efficient than any other for almost whole of PvE (and i say “almost” only in case i forgot something, and because there are some small parts where gear doesn’t matter at all).

And why “should” it be one specific part? What part of gaming declares that this is something that must be maintained?

…logic? I haven’t said that it is something that must be mandated, only that the statement that i have corrected is always true only after that correction. Yes, it’s true that there will always be one geartype that is more efficient than the other, but that doesn’t mean that this geartype must be always the same for every part of the game. Except in GW2 it is.

maha.7902:

Do I like, need to link the no-dodge arah path 2 video?

Go ahead. Just remember to add something that is usually omitted (and isn’t easy to see from this video). It also requires high skill. Put 5 average people in the same gear with the same skills and traits selected, and tell them not to dodge, and they will most likely wipe.

maha.7902:

Because you won’t be doing arah path 2 with no dodging in berserker gear.

Maybe i won’t, but it doesn’t mean it will be any harder or more dangerous.

HHR LostProphet.4801:

GrimmR.3541:

So did the guy post his lupi solo yet ?

Who? Me? Why should I solo a boss that was designed to be a five-men encounter only to prove my “supremacy”?
The very fact that you can relatively easy solo Lupi shows that this boss isn’t strong enough to trouble an experienced party. Lupi will wreck new players. But once they know the trick it’s easy. And thanks for picking the best designed fight in the whole game as reprentation of bad boss mechanics.

Well if it was you who said he would share a video of soloing lupi then yes, I mean you. Go ahead and solo him, most of the people who say that he is easy have not even soloed him yet. It’s not about “supermacy“, it’s about me telling you to underline your argument with video proof. I remember someone in this thread saying he would upload a video..
And by the way, I never said something about bad boss mechanics.
So, have fun!

fireflyry.7023:

Will do. I’ll post it here soon.

There we got him, still waiting.

GrimmR.3541:

HHR LostProphet.4801:

GrimmR.3541:

So did the guy post his lupi solo yet ?

Who? Me? Why should I solo a boss that was designed to be a five-men encounter only to prove my “supremacy”?
The very fact that you can relatively easy solo Lupi shows that this boss isn’t strong enough to trouble an experienced party. Lupi will wreck new players. But once they know the trick it’s easy. And thanks for picking the best designed fight in the whole game as reprentation of bad boss mechanics.

Well if it was you who said he would share a video of soloing lupi then yes, I mean you. Go ahead and solo him, most of the people who say that he is easy have not even soloed him yet. It’s not about “supermacy“, it’s about me telling you to underline your argument with video proof. I remember someone in this thread saying he would upload a video..
And by the way, I never said something about bad boss mechanics.
So, have fun!

No, but I did. And you want me to solo lupi just to prove my point.
But you’re missing my point entirely, so I don’t feel the need to prove you anything.
Let me ask you this: Did you ever, exept maybe for the first time, had any problems fighting the tree in TA or the Searing Effigy in CoF? Or Tazza in SE? Or Colossus Rumblus if Grast isn’t bugging? Or any of the old open worldboss? No?
Ofcourse not, they are not strong enough or get trivialized by single skills such as Wall of Reflection. Those bosses bare little to no risk at all, which means you can go ahead with berzerkers gear and take no risks.
And this wont change, that’s why this thread is obsolete.

Oh my “I can’t kill them with my soldier’s gear and all those stupid zerker’s can, that’s why I’m now claiming that this game is too easy” – come on, really?

Jana.6831:

Oh my “I can’t kill them with my soldier’s gear and all those stupid zerker’s can, that’s why I’m now claiming that this game is too easy” – come on, really?

You are referring to me? Because I sincerely hope you’re not.

Actually yes and to a lot of others who switched from “zerker isn’t viable” to “too easy” after they apperantly learned that zerkers solo bosses

Why are people STILL missing the point of this thread? Why is everyone still fighting over the Meta?

Play how you want. It shouldn’t matter if you want to play with the meta, zerkers, soldier’s, rampagers, or a build that bugs the game to the point that you can press a button to poop rainbows.

That point of this thread was to address the issue of the small portion of the community that refuses to let people play how they want.

People that join Zerk only LFGs without the proper build and gear? This thread was made to address that issue.

People that join “All Welcome” LFGs and attempt to kick someone for not playing how they “Should?” This thread was made to address that issue.

Stop fighting over the Meta. That’s not the point of this thread.

Some people take things way too personally. Especially when they arent even the target. x)

@Inferno

Maybe you should rename the thread to “Ignoring LFG descriptions” if that is what your thread was supposed to be about. Although thats hard to believe given the comments and the op.

Jana.6831:

Actually yes and to a lot of others who switched from “zerker isn’t viable” to “too easy” after they apperantly learned that zerkers solo bosses

Gosh… I don’t even know what to say. I am using zerker gear all the way on all characters 24/7 in PvE. I have done dungeons now more than enough and it’s boring. I want the bosses to be harder because it’s boring how they are designed, not because I want zerker to be devalued. Do you even notice how stupid the argument is you’re using? If a berzerker need more time to kill bosses, then the soldier’s gear guy will need even more time. I don’t want bosses to be flat out harder. I want bosses to be lupicus-style harder. You can solo lupi naked if you avoid all his attacks and play by his rules. But if you don’t, you die pretty quickly. That’s the optimal way to design bosses. But all the bosses I’ve listed previously, like many more, are not optimal, they can’t force the player to play by their rules. This is not a statement against zerker gear but against trivial mechanics and too easy fights.

To come back to my initial argument, a response to Astralporing: Berzerker gear isn’t the reason of the low risk involved in GW2. It’s the fact that the game is catered towards… “special” players. It’s easy enough for them to beat the game, which sadly also means that it’s too easy for the other players.

HHR LostProphet.4801:

GrimmR.3541:

HHR LostProphet.4801:

GrimmR.3541:

So did the guy post his lupi solo yet ?

Who? Me? Why should I solo a boss that was designed to be a five-men encounter only to prove my “supremacy”?
The very fact that you can relatively easy solo Lupi shows that this boss isn’t strong enough to trouble an experienced party. Lupi will wreck new players. But once they know the trick it’s easy. And thanks for picking the best designed fight in the whole game as reprentation of bad boss mechanics.

Well if it was you who said he would share a video of soloing lupi then yes, I mean you. Go ahead and solo him, most of the people who say that he is easy have not even soloed him yet. It’s not about “supermacy“, it’s about me telling you to underline your argument with video proof. I remember someone in this thread saying he would upload a video..
And by the way, I never said something about bad boss mechanics.
So, have fun!

No, but I did. And you want me to solo lupi just to prove my point.
But you’re missing my point entirely, so I don’t feel the need to prove you anything.
Let me ask you this: Did you ever, exept maybe for the first time, had any problems fighting the tree in TA or the Searing Effigy in CoF? Or Tazza in SE? Or Colossus Rumblus if Grast isn’t bugging? Or any of the old open worldboss? No?
Ofcourse not, they are not strong enough or get trivialized by single skills such as Wall of Reflection. Those bosses bare little to no risk at all, which means you can go ahead with berzerkers gear and take no risks.
And this wont change, that’s why this thread is obsolete.

I think I made it clear who I meant.
No I never have had problems there. So, does that give you anything now ? So you want to make harder bosses so the kitten potato elitists, who play a ton of GW2, can’t do their content in berserker gear anymore ?
Well the problem is that even if there will be harder bosses, which i hope will be the case, the kitten elitists will find ways to finish it fast and easy, even in berserker, just because we like to.. And then there will be the non berserker guys, falling behind in time, crying about how bad and arrogant the elitists are.
After 2 years of the game being out, one might think that the elitists are still the “evil“ ones. In fact we aren’t, we help when we’re asked and we give advice. We just refuse to play with people who don’t share our mindset. And obviously so do you non elitists. But not only that, you even dare to say we are arrogant, try to remove our benefits of practicing and developing and make us look like the evil ones.
If you don’t like my playstyle, don’t play with me. I will do the same.

GrimmR.3541:

HHR LostProphet.4801:

GrimmR.3541:

HHR LostProphet.4801:

GrimmR.3541:

So did the guy post his lupi solo yet ?

Who? Me? Why should I solo a boss that was designed to be a five-men encounter only to prove my “supremacy”?
The very fact that you can relatively easy solo Lupi shows that this boss isn’t strong enough to trouble an experienced party. Lupi will wreck new players. But once they know the trick it’s easy. And thanks for picking the best designed fight in the whole game as reprentation of bad boss mechanics.

Well if it was you who said he would share a video of soloing lupi then yes, I mean you. Go ahead and solo him, most of the people who say that he is easy have not even soloed him yet. It’s not about “supermacy“, it’s about me telling you to underline your argument with video proof. I remember someone in this thread saying he would upload a video..
And by the way, I never said something about bad boss mechanics.
So, have fun!

No, but I did. And you want me to solo lupi just to prove my point.
But you’re missing my point entirely, so I don’t feel the need to prove you anything.
Let me ask you this: Did you ever, exept maybe for the first time, had any problems fighting the tree in TA or the Searing Effigy in CoF? Or Tazza in SE? Or Colossus Rumblus if Grast isn’t bugging? Or any of the old open worldboss? No?
Ofcourse not, they are not strong enough or get trivialized by single skills such as Wall of Reflection. Those bosses bare little to no risk at all, which means you can go ahead with berzerkers gear and take no risks.
And this wont change, that’s why this thread is obsolete.

I think I made it clear who I meant.
No I never have had problems there. So, does that give you anything now ? So you want to make harder bosses so the kitten potato elitists, who play a ton of GW2, can’t do their content in berserker gear anymore ?
Well the problem is that even if there will be harder bosses, which i hope will be the case, the kitten elitists will find ways to finish it fast and easy, even in berserker, just because we like to.. And then there will be the non berserker guys, falling behind in time, crying about how bad and arrogant the elitists are.
After 2 years of the game being out, one might think that the elitists are still the “evil“ ones. In fact we aren’t, we help when we’re asked and we give advice. We just refuse to play with people who don’t share our mindset. And obviously so do you non elitists. But not only that, you even dare to say we are arrogant, try to remove our benefits of practicing and developing and make us look like the evil ones.
If you don’t like my playstyle, don’t play with me. I will do the same.

Just read my response to Jana.
And I don’t think elitists are evil, I would even call me an elitist-pug. Some are just arrogant on a personal level.

HHR LostProphet.4801:

GrimmR.3541:

HHR LostProphet.4801:

GrimmR.3541:

HHR LostProphet.4801:

GrimmR.3541:

So did the guy post his lupi solo yet ?

Who? Me? Why should I solo a boss that was designed to be a five-men encounter only to prove my “supremacy”?
The very fact that you can relatively easy solo Lupi shows that this boss isn’t strong enough to trouble an experienced party. Lupi will wreck new players. But once they know the trick it’s easy. And thanks for picking the best designed fight in the whole game as reprentation of bad boss mechanics.

Well if it was you who said he would share a video of soloing lupi then yes, I mean you. Go ahead and solo him, most of the people who say that he is easy have not even soloed him yet. It’s not about “supermacy“, it’s about me telling you to underline your argument with video proof. I remember someone in this thread saying he would upload a video..
And by the way, I never said something about bad boss mechanics.
So, have fun!

No, but I did. And you want me to solo lupi just to prove my point.
But you’re missing my point entirely, so I don’t feel the need to prove you anything.
Let me ask you this: Did you ever, exept maybe for the first time, had any problems fighting the tree in TA or the Searing Effigy in CoF? Or Tazza in SE? Or Colossus Rumblus if Grast isn’t bugging? Or any of the old open worldboss? No?
Ofcourse not, they are not strong enough or get trivialized by single skills such as Wall of Reflection. Those bosses bare little to no risk at all, which means you can go ahead with berzerkers gear and take no risks.
And this wont change, that’s why this thread is obsolete.

I think I made it clear who I meant.
No I never have had problems there. So, does that give you anything now ? So you want to make harder bosses so the kitten potato elitists, who play a ton of GW2, can’t do their content in berserker gear anymore ?
Well the problem is that even if there will be harder bosses, which i hope will be the case, the kitten elitists will find ways to finish it fast and easy, even in berserker, just because we like to.. And then there will be the non berserker guys, falling behind in time, crying about how bad and arrogant the elitists are.
After 2 years of the game being out, one might think that the elitists are still the “evil“ ones. In fact we aren’t, we help when we’re asked and we give advice. We just refuse to play with people who don’t share our mindset. And obviously so do you non elitists. But not only that, you even dare to say we are arrogant, try to remove our benefits of practicing and developing and make us look like the evil ones.
If you don’t like my playstyle, don’t play with me. I will do the same.

Just read my response to Jana.
And I don’t think elitists are evil, I would even call me an elitist-pug. Some are just arrogant on a personal level.

Yes i know, wasn’t all directed at you. Just lazy as I’m typing at my phone.

Easy way to fix this whole problem,

1) Add an inspect option

2) Allow players an option to opt out, if they don’t want it.

3) All for LFG options to insist those who join(or even see) have opted in to ensure they meet description or requirements.

4) “Play how I want” Players will realize that there are more of them out there when they are not just seeing “zerker only” and just joining because they didn’t read or just don’t care.

5) Profits because both sides will naturally split from each other and we won’t have these kinds of threads because both sides will find “like minded” players

I play like the rest, full zerk gear and I carry around PVT for certain occasions. I’m a big fan of others playing the way they want and I hope that they do. There is no push from me here that you seem to think there is. I never implied for them to remove zerkers, I just wish that there were optimal builds for different roles utilizing the diverse stat types we have in this game.

Roles are separate from gearing. In a decent dungeon group, you take classes X, Y and Z to perform functions A, B and C and these functions are achievable independent of gear. Therefore, if these roles are independent of gear then there is no need to gear a specific way to fulfill them and you can then focus your actual stat distribution on dealing damage since your support functions are already covered via weapon and utility skills and traits. What you wish is basically for GW2 not to be an action game – you can get away with playing as glass cannon support in this game because of how active the damage mitigation is, if performing support required gear D (which if we go by the past 10000000000000000000000 RPGs of precedence means stacking defensive and passive stats) to be optimal then you’re just making the game less active and with a lower skill ceiling – why should the DPS’ers have to be squishy and the supports just afk in the corner spamming heal on auto cast? (exaggeration but you get the point)

The diverse stat combinations in this game are used extensively in PvP and WvW, in any RPG or MMORPG, for PvE content you will always have players pushing as glassy as possible, whether that means dropping the number of healers and tanks in a dungeon/raid or having the healers/tanks serve more as off-[role] since there tend to be hybrid classes in other MMOs – so your tanks might actually stick on as much DPS gear as possible while still holding boss aggro.

It’s like the natural progression of video games, as people get better they push their boundaries. As dungeon runners got better, we went from stacking warriors to stacking eles, it’s just progression.

…logic? I haven’t said that it is something that must be mandated, only that the statement that i have corrected is always true only after that correction. Yes, it’s true that there will always be one geartype that is more efficient than the other, but that doesn’t mean that this geartype must be always the same for every part of the game. Except in GW2 it is.

For every part of one game mode.

Is what you meant to say.

So now that that argument was completely blown out of the water, let’s move on.

Go ahead. Just remember to add something that is usually omitted (and isn’t easy to see from this video). It also requires high skill. Put 5 average people in the same gear with the same skills and traits selected, and tell them not to dodge, and they will most likely wipe.

No, sitting in sentinel gear tanking bosses (which is literally what happened) does not take “high skill”. Let’s not pretend here. I’ll tell you what took high skill, and they told people this themselves – staying awake long enough to kill bosses was the most challenging part of the entire dungeon.

Maybe i won’t, but it doesn’t mean it will be any harder or more dangerous

Actually it’s nigh-on impossible. If you don’t dodge belka when she fires her pulsing orb, or sidestep it and you’re in glass gear you’re one-shotted. If you don’t dodge the abomination stomp and don’t dodge or sidestep the rock-throw, squishy classes are gibbed and heavy classes are knocked down and take heavy damage. If you don’t dodge lupicus kicks and swipes and AOE you’re anything from heavily wounded to one-shotted. If you don’t dodge or step out of alphard’s AOE you’re one-shotted.

When you’re in defensive gear, none of these one-shots occur.

If you’re in glass and don’t intend on dodging, surprise surprise, people die. I’ve pugged arah enough times to know that path 2 is just complete amateur hour and people make mistakes all over the place and get themselves destroyed when wearing glass.

—

So let’s conclude here:

Wearing full sentinels and afk tanking bosses does not “take skill”. Roles are independent of gearing and the game does not suddenly become more interesting if you have to stack boon duration while blasting fire fields as an ele, in fact if you had to pull a massive throttle on your own damage like that in order to stack might it would annoy the absolute bejesus out of a ton of people.

HHR LostProphet.4801:

Gosh… I don’t even know what to say. I am using zerker gear all the way on all characters 24/7 in PvE. I have done dungeons now more than enough and it’s boring. I want the bosses to be harder because it’s boring how they are designed, not because I want zerker to be devalued. Do you even notice how stupid the argument is you’re using?

Ok, maybe I should’ve looked up more of what you wrote.

But, I also said that a lot of people struggle to even zerg bosses. I do myself at times if I don’t look up how others fought them as there’s usually too little time and too many special effects (I’m looking at you, twilight!) to figure out bosses oneself – well and impatient group members are also a factor. So by making bosses harder people who don’t look up what others already have perfected won’t stand a chance. Don’t know if that is a solution. I’m fine with instances with harder bosses, but I’m neither fine with another crit damage nerf or a complete boss overhaul just to please some groups as I think that this won’t do any good to any of us.

InfernoHero.5687:

That point of this thread was to address the issue of the small portion of the community that refuses to let people play how they want.

People that join Zerk only LFGs without the proper build and gear? This thread was made to address that issue.

People that join “All Welcome” LFGs and attempt to kick someone for not playing how they “Should?” This thread was made to address that issue.

Not sure what you’re saying here. Do you think it’s an issue that people of different gearing aren’t allowed in a zerk only group? Why should a group that wants to play their way be effected by someone leeching a run in soldier gear? I would say it’s the one in soldier gear who refuses to let people play how they want.

Shanks.2907:

InfernoHero.5687:

That point of this thread was to address the issue of the small portion of the community that refuses to let people play how they want.

People that join Zerk only LFGs without the proper build and gear? This thread was made to address that issue.

People that join “All Welcome” LFGs and attempt to kick someone for not playing how they “Should?” This thread was made to address that issue.

Not sure what you’re saying here. Do you think it’s an issue that people of different gearing aren’t allowed in a zerk only group? Why should a group that wants to play their way be effected by someone leeching a run in soldier gear? I would say it’s the one in soldier gear who refuses to let people play how they want.

I think he’s saying that both people in not zerker gear joining zerk only groups and people trying to kick people for not being in zerker gear, even though the group did not specify zerker gear, are equally wrong.

But he also said that this thread is just about the LFG tool, and after rereading the first post, I’m still pretty ? on how it’s about that.

This is why gearcheck exists and why “5k ap” bads also exist. Lack of comprehension.

Still no one linked this?

Oh and about the LFG issues THIS is just pure gold.

Dalanor.5387:

Still no one linked this?

Oh and about the LFG issues THIS is just pure gold.

The problem is when All Welcome LFG listings have a guy join that wants to kick people for not having zerk gear.

The other and equally important problem is non-zerk players joining zerk groups and wanting to be carried.

Problem solved easily.

only party leader has kick rights

maha.7902:

Roles are separate from gearing.

This one statement, if people would only get it, would end most of the anti-meta discussions.

As far as Inferno’s thread topic, that being that efficiency players and laissez-faire players shouldn’t mix… I believe that its human nature to seek convenience, that wanting a run now prompts people to join a group regardless of what’s advertised rather than wait for one that fits the way they prefer to play. It’s a path-of-least-resistance thing. I’ve no doubt that there are also some players who like to cause upsets and some who want to be carried, but believe that it’s primarily an issue of people who feel entitled to get what they want regardless of what others might want.

Common courtesy is, after all, about as common as common sense.