Guild Wars 2

There’s been several reports of players being given a full refund for the game and the gems they purchased as a result of being banned for the snowflake exploit.

Is everyone banned from this eligible for a refund or only certain people?

So…

Ppl buy the game…
Ppl exploit the game (intentionally or not) —→ Get banned!
Ppl ask for a refund !

Here’s the best part → Ppl get a refund!

Ok then!

I believe that may be the case. its a overly harsh action, they deserve a refund for the hundreds of hours of their time lost because the dev’s made a bad recipe. I’m they get it back. I’d be pretty upset. By contrast because someone has more gold than me or more exos than me I’m not going to be upset. Just doesn’t add up xD. Suspend+ remove ill gotten gains was an easy fix.

Good for them, it was a bs reason for a perma-ban in the first place. I’d still be kitten for the hundreds of hours I lost since some of the players I know that got banned were pretty loyal and active with over 1000 hours logged on their accounts.

At least they got their money back tho.

Hilda Raven.8641:

I believe that may be the case. its a overly harsh action, they deserve a refund for the hundreds of hours of their time lost because the dev’s made a bad recipe. I’m they get it back. I’d be pretty upset. By contrast because someone has more gold than me or more exos than me I’m not going to be upset. Just doesn’t add up xD. Suspend+ remove ill gotten gains was an easy fix.

What I don’t get, or maybe what I am not really clear on, was the fact that with no warning, no obvious signs, they come into the game, and ban a bunch of people.

There was no quick patch, there was no warning from forums. People, whether they thought it wrong or not, just want to make some gold. And then A.Net gives them the ban hammer? That’s obviously poor management in my opinion, seeing as people were following a recipe in game, they weren’t dupping the snowflakes or the gold they were getting. It was legit, even if it wasn’t ‘intended’.

That’s like saying using LoS to avoid fear from dragons is/was an exploit, when its been a tried and true method of killing dragons for decades.

Strifey.7215:

Good for them, it was a bs reason for a perma-ban in the first place. I’d still be kitten for the hundreds of hours I lost since some of the players I know that got banned were pretty loyal and active with over 1000 hours logged on their accounts.

At least they got their money back tho.

I’m curious, they must have made hundreds of gold to get banned from what I understand, did they think they were exploiting?

I think they should ban the guy that created the recipe in the first place.

raenen.5807:

I think they should ban the guy that created the recipe in the first place.

Can we also ban the guy/girl/people who made a bunch of Giver’s items that don’t do anything?

lolitsage.2185:

kKagari.6804:

raenen.5807:

I think they should ban the guy that created the recipe in the first place.

Can we also ban the guy/girl/people who made a bunch of Giver’s items that don’t do anything?

Might as well ban the people who made Lost Shores along with them

It would be a good start.

It’s great. It makes a good precedence for the time when i get bored of the game and decided to quit. I will just exploit the game and get refunded.

http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/167irk/post_snowflake_ban_full_refund/

Seems more than a few are getting refunds.

Good, I wholly support their refunds and hope everyone caught up in that stupid ban gets one, and they don’t re-purchase. ANet won’t learn anything if those people all just turn around and spend their refund on a new copy of GW2, thus boosting ANet’s “sales totals” (I assume refunds aren’t taken into account when tallying sales of a game).

I disagree. They should not have gotten a refund. They paid for the services, exploited those services, and were banned per the ToS. If they were smart enough to print ectos by the hundreds/thousands, they would be smart enough to know it shouldn’t be happening and stop.

This also happened over the holidays when i am sure a lot of their staff were not around to fix this issue.

Lol you people will believe anything/everything someone post on these forums.

Mosthated.9304:

Lol you people will believe anything/everything someone post on these forums.

Well the reddit post does have convincing screenshots. But heck! Lets all wear tinfoil hats.

teviko.6049:

What I don’t get, or maybe what I am not really clear on, was the fact that with no warning, no obvious signs, they come into the game, and ban a bunch of people.

There was no quick patch, there was no warning from forums. People, whether they thought it wrong or not, just want to make some gold. And then A.Net gives them the ban hammer? That’s obviously poor management in my opinion, seeing as people were following a recipe in game, they weren’t dupping the snowflakes or the gold they were getting. It was legit, even if it wasn’t ‘intended’.

That’s like saying using LoS to avoid fear from dragons is/was an exploit, when its been a tried and true method of killing dragons for decades.

ArenaNet is using fear now. They want players to be afraid of doing anything that might be an exploit because there is a chance it might be deemed an exploit and thus cause them to get banned. Unfortunately every time things like this happen it creates a lot of anxiety in the game where people are worried about doing things that could be considered exploit.

The line you cross to determine what an exploit is couldn’t be any more vague or inconsistent than it is right now, so now players are either ignoring everything that could be very profitable (even some speed clears could fall into exploit definitions) and staying poor, or they are playing Russian Roulette with ways of making money or completing content, in the hopes to keep up with the ever inflating price of things and to not fall behind the rest of the pack who are using all the creative ways to make a profit.

At the end of the day it’s lose lose. ArenaNet is intentionally vague and poor at communication over issues like this one so it’s just something you have to get used to or move onto another game.

Pretty much. I’m sure the Valentines day event will have recipes, which I, or anyone I know, will not be touching with a 30 foot pole simply because of this disaster.

Refund for what? because people took the micky and did something they knew in their heads was wrong. If they sold the ectos or not its still exploiting and thats not right

They do not deserve a refund, isnt the gaming world suffering enough from gold sellers, bots, exploiters and its time someone made a stand against it. Tough luck if you exploit is what i say

Does not feel morally right to request refunds for games you played hundreds of hours.

Danno.5269:

If they were smart enough to print ectos by the hundreds/thousands, they would be smart enough to know it shouldn’t be happening and stop.

Because, obviously, craft → salvage → craft is a clear sign that a person is a mind-reader. Also, it requires an I.Q. of at least 170 to do…right….whatever…

TWMagimay.9057:

Danno.5269:

If they were smart enough to print ectos by the hundreds/thousands, they would be smart enough to know it shouldn’t be happening and stop.

Because, obviously, craft -> salvage -> craft is a clear sign that a person is a mind-reader. Also, it requires an I.Q. of at least 170 to do…right….whatever…

From a post by John Smith today….
I quote ‘’To give some perspective on banning for exploits. Our last round of snowflake banning encompassed greater than 275,000 illicitly created ectos.’’
You still think they were unfairly banned..??
And should have been refunded.??
I don’t especially after seeing the MASSIVE exploit that the ’’200’’ worst got up to..
Have a nice day ;p

Danno.5269:

I disagree. They should not have gotten a refund. They paid for the services, exploited those services, and were banned per the ToS. If they were smart enough to print ectos by the hundreds/thousands, they would be smart enough to know it shouldn’t be happening and stop.

This also happened over the holidays when i am sure a lot of their staff were not around to fix this issue.

It’s not that easy.
First, ToS are just plainly illegal in many states. Any signed ToS or EULA is completely void, for example, in Italy.
Second, any arbitrary difinitive service interruption would ask for a refund in many states.
Third, the service interruption (ban) was not based on clearly stated rules so, even in states where the ToS is completely legal it can still be appealed in court.
Basically, Anet would risk a lawsuit and a lot of bad advertising from it. It’s way safer and cheaper for them to just refund the banned players.

It bothers me how people immediately say things like ANET knows they’re wrong etc that’s why they gave the refund. As far as i’ve known, Anet will give refunds for your game for any reason if you asked, it’s not the first time someone has asked for a refund and got one and it won’t be the last. Banning those players and automatically giving them a refund means Anet was serious with their message. We do not tolerate or negotiate with exploiters.

Lafiel.9372:

Banning those players and automatically giving them a refund means —-——— We do not negotiate with exploiters.

That actually means you DO negotiate with exploiters if you’re willing to refund players banned for performing normal game mechanics that nobody had seen as an exploit. How are they or anyone to know it was an offense when there were no responses to any questions or issues raised at the time this problem was in full swing? Or when 2 patches that were meant to fix bugs with the holiday event IGNORED this “exploit” even after it was mentioned in several forum threads?

Nobody knew it was not working as intended, and with no answers from Anet, nobody had an idea. Hell, the PLAYERS brought it to their attention and raised the flags, THIER JOB WAS DONE FOR THEM! Perhaps if they would actually pre-test and run this content through QA once or twice, these nightmares wouldn’t happen. Perfect example is the “Disconnect in Fractals” issue…which has been going on for over 2 months now, and not even counting the Class issues.

You KNOW they’ve changed their pre-testing on these patches because of this disaster, if you count how much cash they’ve had to refund in both games AND gem purchases, you’re looking at about 150$ a person on average.

And “banned” is such a harsh word…it’s more like “bought out”.

I’m still on both sides of the argument.

Im sure many players a good 80% abused it knew what they were doing and should have said hmm maybe this could be a no no and get me banned nah.

And im sure arenanet may have not have done the perma ban thing but a punishment still had to be given for exploting and abusing maybe suspended and rerolled before they obtained the money hmm?

I know a dude who made 10000 gold from doing it got banned and whined that it was unfair…really 10k?

Thomassassinate.9370:

Im sure many players a good 80% abused it knew what they were doing and should have said hmm maybe this could be a no no and get me banned nah.

It’s not the responsibility of the players to decide or know what will be a bannable offense. Thats what community reps, customer service reps, and public forums are for.

Anet chose not to use those, and the players that were left in the dark with no responses or patch-fixes to the issues raised were essentially asked to “police themselves” and then banned for, as far as they knew, using normal game mechanics.

Evidence of this is obvious when you’re a banned player given a full refund. I cannot think of a single MMO I’ve played in my 9 years of playing MMOs that has given a full refund to players who violated the terms of use in such a “extreme” way that would describe them as “economic terrorists”.

“Faction.4013

Thomassassinate.9370:

Im sure many players a good 80% abused it knew what they were doing and should have said hmm maybe this could be a no no and get me banned nah.

It’s not the responsibility of the players to decide or know what will be a bannable offense. Thats what community reps, customer service reps, and public forums are for.

Anet chose not to use those, and the players that were left in the dark with no responses or patch-fixes to the issues raised were essentially asked to “police themselves” and then banned for, as far as they knew, using normal game mechanics."

Not the responsibility but the lack of common sense if something is too good to be true it probly is.

Like the dude who made 10k off of it the players were well aware it was an exploit. I’m sure many told friends and guild members, some made videos etc.

Think of it like this if you saw a device on the ground in real life and everytime you pushed the button money printed out after the lets 5000th or so push wouldnt you say i wonder if this could lead to something bad.

I say good for them. It was questionable at best to ban them in the first place. I wouldn’t blame any of them in the least for taking that money elsewhere.

Thomassassinate.9370:

Not the responsibility but the lack of common sense if something is too good to be true it probly is.

Like the dude who made 10k off of it the players were well aware it was an exploit. I’m sure many told friends and guild members, some made videos etc.

Think of it like this if you saw a device on the ground in real life and everytime you pushed the button money printed out after the lets 5000th or so push wouldnt you say i wonder if this could lead to something bad.

First, in using common sense, I wouldn’t compare a real-world situation with something in a video game that in many cases blatantly ignores reality. Your point is moot.

While I would agree that “if something is too good to be true, it probably is”, the issue at hand is that players brought this to the attention of the developers via Reddit and the official forums, and were not replied to. Hard to know if something is working as intended if you can’t get an answer from the people running the show.

If anything, this whole situation has highlighted the lack of communication on the ANet staff’s part to the community, and the need for this to change immediately.

Again, I say to the people who got refunds: good for them. They deserved it, because the bans were questionable in the first place.

Thomassassinate.9370:

Think of it like this if you saw a device on the ground in real life and everytime you pushed the button money printed out after the lets 5000th or so push wouldnt you say i wonder if this could lead to something bad.

If the device has a disclaimer saying “Using this device will result in bad things”, then I would not press said button.

This exploit is definately a debatable issue, which is the problem. An exploit should not be a discussion of possibilities and what-ifs. That problem exists which is why refunds are given out and the topic is splitting the playerbase. I can see your point too, but if this was properly handled, there would be 0 discussion in the first place.

You did something that was CLEARLY DEFINED as an exploit, not using normal game mechanics, you’re banned. Period.

Here, we have talk of patches that did not resolve the issue, no responses to flags being raised, and such, which is causing this kittenstorm. So bans were handed out, and now those that were banned have legitimate and valid reasons to complain about poor customer service and awful PR and recieve full refunds.

Wheather the “exploiters” were right or wrong, knew or did not know. It’s not their responsibility to inform the playerbase of issues like this that could possibly result in disciplinary actions against them for using normal in-game mechanics. Regardless the results of said mechanics.

I wish I could get refunds on other things in life when I used them wrong and broke them (how many pots have I destroyed boiling water and forgetting about them for like an hour)…

Shiren.9532:

teviko.6049:

What I don’t get, or maybe what I am not really clear on, was the fact that with no warning, no obvious signs, they come into the game, and ban a bunch of people.

There was no quick patch, there was no warning from forums. People, whether they thought it wrong or not, just want to make some gold. And then A.Net gives them the ban hammer? That’s obviously poor management in my opinion, seeing as people were following a recipe in game, they weren’t dupping the snowflakes or the gold they were getting. It was legit, even if it wasn’t ‘intended’.

That’s like saying using LoS to avoid fear from dragons is/was an exploit, when its been a tried and true method of killing dragons for decades.

ArenaNet is using fear now. They want players to be afraid of doing anything that might be an exploit because there is a chance it might be deemed an exploit and thus cause them to get banned. Unfortunately every time things like this happen it creates a lot of anxiety in the game where people are worried about doing things that could be considered exploit.

The line you cross to determine what an exploit is couldn’t be any more vague or inconsistent than it is right now, so now players are either ignoring everything that could be very profitable (even some speed clears could fall into exploit definitions) and staying poor, or they are playing Russian Roulette with ways of making money or completing content, in the hopes to keep up with the ever inflating price of things and to not fall behind the rest of the pack who are using all the creative ways to make a profit.

At the end of the day it’s lose lose. ArenaNet is intentionally vague and poor at communication over issues like this one so it’s just something you have to get used to or move onto another game.

You wanna know something?
Who gives a kitten???

I’d rather take a shortcut and risk my kitten in this game than sit with a thumb up my kitten and pretend that playing by the rules will get me anywhere.
If I ever find a shortcut, count on me to be the first to use it, this game is unplayable without fast gold making, just not.

I’ll gladly accept a ban if the day comes, and get this game done and over with as long as I could create 10 hours of pure fun compared to 200 hours of misery farming like an idiot.

Horheristo.3607

Honestly there is no reason to farm. Whats the point of playing a game if you’re being miserable for 200 hours to be happy for 1 hour that you got a legendary or w.e enjoy the game rather than the items this coming from a dude who LOVES loot.

Thomassassinate.9370:

Horheristo.3607

Honestly there is no reason to farm. Whats the point of playing a game if you’re being miserable for 200 hours to be happy for 1 hour that you got a legendary or w.e enjoy the game rather than the items this coming from a dude who LOVES loot.

Was giving an example to a possible situation.

I got a solid gold making routine (whenever I’m into it) so I’m not really worried as I’m already done with all the mats req. for my 3rd legendary besides the 500 shards.
But being worried of what is exploit and what isn’t?
kitten that, I’ll do my own thing and enjoy the game the way I see fit.

Exploits are caused by bad programming. It’s Anet’s job to fix their programming mistakes. Before to many people take advantage of Anet’s bad programming.

Anet could of disabled the recipe when they first noticed it.

I think you’ll find that only EU players would have been refunded.

It’s the law, nothing more.

I know several people who got banned and just as a point not all of them got refunds.
I know one didnt buy the product direct via Arenanet and they did not get a refund .

Oh and the people screaming oh this was a clearly defined exploit etc again , maybe go back and read the 280 comment thread on it and try and understand the other point of view on this, saying its clearly defined etc is strecthing the point tbh.

And as for the person saying oh someone made 10k gold on this , personally i would say thats a load of rubbish.
I am aware of nearly 20 people who got banned over this ( yes my guild got hit hard by this ), of those 20 people most didnt even make nowhere near that ie: mde 50-100g range .
One person who actually crafted and salvaged nearly constantly for the entire time of this as they was determined to make money made about 750g with about 57 hours of constant crafting, so i would very very much doubt someone could do 10k gold not unless you are using some seriour scripting/bot programs even then id doubt you could do in the time frame it occured in.

ATM: Spitting out money
Normal Guy: “Woah is that supposed to be doing that?”
Nearby cop: Silently watching
Normal Guy: “I’m just wondering… you know because if it is I want some”
Nearby Cop: Silently watching
Normal Guy: Watches other people take some money
Nearby Cop: Silently watching
Normal Guy: “So… This is cool right? We can take this money?”
Excited Guy: “I think its their way of stimulating the economy”
Normal Guy: “Really? Awesome. I’m going to get some of this then”
Normal Guy: Takes money
Nearby Cop: “That’s it you are all under arrest!”

Lokki.1092:

ATM: Spitting out money
Normal Guy: “Woah is that supposed to be doing that?”
Nearby cop: Silently watching
Normal Guy: “I’m just wondering… you know because if it is I want some”
Nearby Cop: Silently watching
Normal Guy: Watches other people take some money
Nearby Cop: Silently watching
Normal Guy: “So… This is cool right? We can take this money?”
Excited Guy: “I think its their way of stimulating the economy”
Normal Guy: “Really? Awesome. I’m going to get some of this then”
Normal Guy: Takes money
Nearby Cop: “That’s it you are all under arrest!”

using a real life analogy to highlight why something is wrong in game really is kinda silly, especially one as blatant as that.

How about read,understand,think about the circumstances about this particular episode and then make a informed decision (which ever side of the fence you are on regarding this ) and then state your opinion , instead of trying to link it into hypothetical real life moral decisions which lets be honest dont compare really to decisions in a video game.

Strifey.7215:

Good for them, it was a bs reason for a perma-ban in the first place. I’d still be kitten for the hundreds of hours I lost since some of the players I know that got banned were pretty loyal and active with over 1000 hours logged on their accounts.

At least they got their money back tho.

You mean you should get your money back for the hundreds of hours you played and enjoyed the game? In other words, anyone should be able to get a refund at any point in time…

Malediktus.9250:

Does not feel morally right to request refunds for games you played hundreds of hours.

These people are immoral, which is why they had no problems exploiting the recipe in the first place.

As I saw on a video with some people of Anet. When they talked the theme, he said "well lets say you find something good, so you make it… 1, 2, 5, 10 times, and you say “hm, this could be an exploit”. You really want me to believe that you were stupid enough to do it hundreds if not thousands of times without knowing it?"

something like that.

“TrapjaW.4983

Lokki.1092:

ATM: Spitting out money
Normal Guy: “Woah is that supposed to be doing that?”
Nearby cop: Silently watching
Normal Guy: “I’m just wondering… you know because if it is I want some”
Nearby Cop: Silently watching
Normal Guy: Watches other people take some money
Nearby Cop: Silently watching
Normal Guy: “So… This is cool right? We can take this money?”
Excited Guy: “I think its their way of stimulating the economy”
Normal Guy: “Really? Awesome. I’m going to get some of this then”
Normal Guy: Takes money
Nearby Cop: “That’s it you are all under arrest!”

using a real life analogy to highlight why something is wrong in game really is kinda silly, especially one as blatant as that.

How about read,understand,think about the circumstances about this particular episode and then make a informed decision (which ever side of the fence you are on regarding this ) and then state your opinion , instead of trying to link it into hypothetical real life moral decisions which lets be honest dont compare really to decisions in a video game"

I think that sums it up perfectly in my opinion. Whats wrong with putting what could effect real world economy as well as gaming community economy. I think you just think his statement was blatant because he didnt say “omg unban those players omg hate you guys!”

All that money could ruin the owner/bank/etc which would lead to people not trusting that company.

All that gold could ruin the economy making prices drop and rise frustrating players leading players to quit from that company.

Game or not they are a company in the end.

Thomassassinate.9370:

“TrapjaW.4983

Lokki.1092:

ATM: Spitting out money
Normal Guy: “Woah is that supposed to be doing that?”
Nearby cop: Silently watching
Normal Guy: “I’m just wondering… you know because if it is I want some”
Nearby Cop: Silently watching
Normal Guy: Watches other people take some money
Nearby Cop: Silently watching
Normal Guy: “So… This is cool right? We can take this money?”
Excited Guy: “I think its their way of stimulating the economy”
Normal Guy: “Really? Awesome. I’m going to get some of this then”
Normal Guy: Takes money
Nearby Cop: “That’s it you are all under arrest!”

using a real life analogy to highlight why something is wrong in game really is kinda silly, especially one as blatant as that.

How about read,understand,think about the circumstances about this particular episode and then make a informed decision (which ever side of the fence you are on regarding this ) and then state your opinion , instead of trying to link it into hypothetical real life moral decisions which lets be honest dont compare really to decisions in a video game"

I think that sums it up perfectly in my opinion. Whats wrong with putting what could effect real world economy as well as gaming community economy.

All that money could ruin the owner/bank/etc which would lead to people not trusting that company.

All that gold could ruin the economy making prices drop and rise frustrating players leading players to quit from that company.

Game or not they are a company in the end.

The funny thing is AN didn’t or rather couldn’t delete the ecto’s that were created nor did they delete all of the funds they generated so in essence this ban was a bandaide and the economy has been permanently or at the very least damaged for the foreseeable future. Which leads me to believe they allowed this to run knowing full well for weeks what was going on leading me to believe they intentionally hyper-inflated the economy to boost gem sales.

Onshidesigns.1069:

Exploits are caused by bad programming. It’s Anet’s job to fix their programming mistakes. Before to many people take advantage of Anet’s bad programming.

Anet could of disabled the recipe when they first noticed it.

By the time it was spotted, hundreds of thousands of ectos were produced. That’s like saying, “It’s the police’s job to ensure people don’t get robbed, therefore not the fault of those few people that steal from under their noses”.

Personally I see the refunding of bans (not in any way questionable) to be the more ridiculous thing I’ve heard in a while.

PowerCat.5738:

There’s been several reports of players being given a full refund for the game and the gems they purchased as a result of being banned for the snowflake exploit.

Is everyone banned from this eligible for a refund or only certain people?

Cat look at it this way, players who didn’t attend the one time event got a chest. You could probably get a full refund if you told those in charge that you like cheese. Be sure to volley logic out the window!

arjeidi.2690:

Seems like people are unaware that some players came to the forums and explicitly asked “Is this an exploit?”

Several players brought it up on the forums to get ANet’s attention and to get a verdict.

Guess who kept their mouth shut and didn’t reply?

I’m sorry, but if you explicitly ask an authority figure whether something is legit, and they choose not to say anything, then later decide to punish you for doing it, they lose all credibility. Go ahead and cry “wah wah, immoral people got gold in a video game, THEY SHOULD LOSE EVERYTHING”, but this entire situation is ArenaNet’s fault.

They failed to test properly.
They failed to communicate to the players.
They failed to answer when players explicitly asked about it.
They failed to give solid information when asked in-game, instead choosing coy “lol” answers.

But sure, blame the people who asked, got no answer, and so thought it was ok. They’re the ones who failed to live up to their obligation, right? Yeah.

Enjoy the real world, kids.

You forgot to add that TWO bug-fix patches came out and left the “exploit” untouched. Even after it was questioned.

Hmm :/ if it was any other game I’d be instantly condemning the refunding players.
It’s not, it’s NC-Nets hybrid manbearpig child of a game and it’s full of terrible grind and fanboy defenders of “graet justice!” no offense intended to those that do actually just give credit where it’s due with GW2 and still recognise the failings.

As someone said, people don’t really care about doing stuff like this and I feel that it’s because they don’t care about the game simply due to the fact that it’s continually
holding them up with RNG, and players scalping one another in terms of price on the TP and skyrocketing the precursor prices it’s all just one big mess the minute you look at your pve “progression” and say, ooh a legendary would be a nice goal. From that moment on it’s pain and misery and many players are just resenting it now and that it’s coming up on 6months of the game being alive and all it’s various little flaws are showing now more than ever.

Yes people abuse refunds, but there was faults and bad behavior on BOTH sides, if you’re going to start swinging the banhammer the least you can do is make sure you gave fair WARNING first. Otherwise you’re just ASKING for the exploitation.

Faction.4013:

http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/167irk/post_snowflake_ban_full_refund/

Seems more than a few are getting refunds.

What the?…

He’s spent SO much money on gems holy crap, I haven’t even spent a dime but this guy…. lmfao, is this how people get their Legendaries?

This is how i see it altho the recipy was wrong making 500 ectos sure as hell is exploiting and you deserve nothing less than to get banned for it.

I can assure you if you get a full refund its not because you spend money on gems or that anet is trying to protect themselves from any actions, Its because they just want to get rid of you and all the other cheaters as they and the rest of us are sick of the whining of exploiters who destroy the economy and then moan how they were wronged.

You play with fire you got burned now just move on.