Guild Wars 2

Does any one else fell violated by furocity ?
Furocity has absolutely decapitated my build for
my gear. Since I have put so much time and effort
into creating my ascended for my build based around
Crit damage I think Anet should give everybody
1 free re roll on our ascended gear. It is the least Anet
Could do after making conditions the only viable
Stat out there. Conditions do not need power and
Furocity to work. Sigh, I want my re roll on my armor
Anet runes too! All of my hard work turned into
Crap over night.

I feel you. I’d like that as well. Ascended gear takes a lot of gold and time to make. Ascended gear itself was already part of the devs going back on their word and adding a whole extra tier of rarity. Making one set was bad enough, but now making a whole new set? Too much grindy-ness >.<

I pity the people who had 4 or 5 characters decked out in ascended gear who now feel that their gear is useless.

You know what? This is a pretty reasonable request but knowing ANet it will either a) never happen or b) happen weeks/months down the line when it is too late. Stop playing and come back in a few months and maybe things will have changed.

Are there really people out there who believe that berzerker gear is no longer the best for pure DPS? All these people asking for a refund on their gear, if they got one, what would they replace it with given a total refund?

Condi the only viable stat? Please share whatever mind-altering substances you’re using with the rest of us. There are plenty of viable stats aside from condi, and if you understood just what the limits to condi is, you’d not even be saying it. Besides, I’m perfectly happy trolling around Tyria with my guardian wearing Ahamid heavy armor.

Shufflepants.9785:

Are there really people out there who believe that berzerker gear is no longer the best for pure DPS? All these people asking for a refund on their gear, if they got one, what would they replace it with given a total refund?

Dire/rabid.

Peoples’ complaints about this ferocity thing have nothing to do with zerk not being the best for DPS. It is, that, comparable to the defensive abilities to players using condi builds in wvw (a la dire and rabid gear) the damage is abysmal and completely unbalanced. It is not even enough to compete anymore. The effectiveness of zerker gear in PvE is totally irrelevant.

I think it would be simpler if you just gave everyone 1 free gear reroll, with the stipulation that it would replace your highest end gear that you had. Although I am not sure how that could be done by Anet with out a lot of yahoos taking unfair advantage of it.

Other than my above suggestion, I really don’t have any problem with the ferocity trait, or the ‘nerf’ to crit damage, even though I will probably have to replace the gear on at least one of my 80s. Not a huge deal, imo, especially since the top gear is now account wide……so it is not a waste, as it can be used for another character, most likely.

Of course, none of that will please those min/max peeps who absolutely have to have the most perfect spec for their toon.

OMG NO!,

My thief did 15k Pistol Whips in PvE on average, Now she does 13.8k on average. OMG 1.2k Damage lost!!! The world is ending!

For real Zerk is still best dps stop crying and do some math/testing.

Faux.1937:

OMG NO!,

My thief did 15k Pistol Whips in PvE on average, Now she does 13.8k on average. OMG 1.2k Damage lost!!! The world is ending!

For real Zerk is still best dps stop crying and do some math/testing.

Or run builds that dont rely on critical damage in the first place. In fact, I may play around with a Conpp build with my necro due to quite a few “inflict X condi on crit” traits instead of the Con/Pw/T build she uses now. Not sure if the extra conditions will outweigh the extra condi damage from a full set of Undead runes though.

As was stated many times, problem rises, when u look on NonZerker gear. My celestial lost alot of dmg. It was offensive gear in the past. Not it is defensive gear. Mind you, it is fully equipped with expensive infusions. And now all of this is lost. Its almost a 1k gold setback. Maybe more. I fear to even start counting my losses. So yeah…

Seriously guys, for the love of God, stop QQing about the slight damage reduction you’ve received.
Regardless of whether you were using the gear in PvE or WvW you were using it because it did the most DPS. Guess what, it still does the most DPS.
The only difference….oh noes, now sometimes I might have to throw 1 or 2 more attacks than I used to, to down a person.

I always think maybe zerker lost some % but other running around since years with only 20% of the dps what zerkers do

I run some dunguons with full zerk these days in pugs i feel no different at all

a few sec more maybe but nothing bad

ShibVicious.9681:

Seriously guys, for the love of God, stop QQing about the slight damage reduction you’ve received.
Regardless of whether you were using the gear in PvE or WvW you were using it because it did the most DPS. Guess what, it still does the most DPS.
The only difference….oh noes, now sometimes I might have to throw 1 or 2 more attacks than I used to, to down a person.

For some builds it is more than slight. For example, a hidden killer thief who runs valk armor and zerk trinkets will notice up to a 30% drop in damage. “But power is unaffected!” Builds like a Hidden Killer thief that rely heavily on critical damage might as well consider crit damage their actual damage since the moves you want to crit most should always crit. That being said, the drop is more than 10% easily.

Sergoros.4398:

As was stated many times, problem rises, when u look on NonZerker gear. My celestial lost alot of dmg. It was offensive gear in the past. Not it is defensive gear. Mind you, it is fully equipped with expensive infusions. And now all of this is lost. Its almost a 1k gold setback. Maybe more. I fear to even start counting my losses. So yeah…

When you look at non-zerker gear, you run into a problem. Not every stat set uses critical damage. If an armor set does not have critical damage in it, it’s completely unaffected and does the same damage post patch as it did pre patch.

Aidan Savage.2078:

Sergoros.4398:

As was stated many times, problem rises, when u look on NonZerker gear. My celestial lost alot of dmg. It was offensive gear in the past. Not it is defensive gear. Mind you, it is fully equipped with expensive infusions. And now all of this is lost. Its almost a 1k gold setback. Maybe more. I fear to even start counting my losses. So yeah…

When you look at non-zerker gear, you run into a problem. Not every stat set uses critical damage. If an armor set does not have critical damage in it, it’s completely unaffected and does the same damage post patch as it did pre patch.

I dont get you. You do realize, that celestial gear uses crit dmg? It had as high crit dmg as zerk gear. And now it has it less, than zerk gear.

Sergoros.4398:

Aidan Savage.2078:

Sergoros.4398:

As was stated many times, problem rises, when u look on NonZerker gear. My celestial lost alot of dmg. It was offensive gear in the past. Not it is defensive gear. Mind you, it is fully equipped with expensive infusions. And now all of this is lost. Its almost a 1k gold setback. Maybe more. I fear to even start counting my losses. So yeah…

When you look at non-zerker gear, you run into a problem. Not every stat set uses critical damage. If an armor set does not have critical damage in it, it’s completely unaffected and does the same damage post patch as it did pre patch.

I dont get you. You do realize, that celestial gear uses crit dmg? It had as high crit dmg as zerk gear. And now it has it less, than zerk gear.

It is not that hard to understand, SOLDIERS armor is “nonzerker,” and does not use, or have, crit damage. It’s unaffected. RABID, CARRION, and several others do not use critical damage either. None of those sets are affected. Next time dont say “nonzerker gear” because it’s going to be wrong immediately, because you’re referring to sets that specifically have critical damage as one of the three stats.

Aidan Savage.2078:

Sergoros.4398:

Aidan Savage.2078:

Sergoros.4398:

As was stated many times, problem rises, when u look on NonZerker gear. My celestial lost alot of dmg. It was offensive gear in the past. Not it is defensive gear. Mind you, it is fully equipped with expensive infusions. And now all of this is lost. Its almost a 1k gold setback. Maybe more. I fear to even start counting my losses. So yeah…

When you look at non-zerker gear, you run into a problem. Not every stat set uses critical damage. If an armor set does not have critical damage in it, it’s completely unaffected and does the same damage post patch as it did pre patch.

I dont get you. You do realize, that celestial gear uses crit dmg? It had as high crit dmg as zerk gear. And now it has it less, than zerk gear.

It is not that hard to understand, SOLDIERS armor is “nonzerker,” and does not use, or have, crit damage. It’s unaffected. RABID, CARRION, and several others do not use critical damage either. None of those sets are affected. Next time dont say “nonzerker gear” because it’s going to be wrong immediately, because you’re referring to sets that specifically have critical damage as one of the three stats.

Are u feeling Ok? It feels like u hurt by something. Maybe you should try some yoga. Might help. It was obvious from the context, that I was talking about NonZerker gear with ferocity . And even talked about my celestial as example. Some people…

Aidan Savage.2078:

Sergoros.4398:

Aidan Savage.2078:

Sergoros.4398:

As was stated many times, problem rises, when u look on NonZerker gear. My celestial lost alot of dmg. It was offensive gear in the past. Not it is defensive gear. Mind you, it is fully equipped with expensive infusions. And now all of this is lost. Its almost a 1k gold setback. Maybe more. I fear to even start counting my losses. So yeah…

When you look at non-zerker gear, you run into a problem. Not every stat set uses critical damage. If an armor set does not have critical damage in it, it’s completely unaffected and does the same damage post patch as it did pre patch.

I dont get you. You do realize, that celestial gear uses crit dmg? It had as high crit dmg as zerk gear. And now it has it less, than zerk gear.

It is not that hard to understand, SOLDIERS armor is “nonzerker,” and does not use, or have, crit damage. It’s unaffected. RABID, CARRION, and several others do not use critical damage either. None of those sets are affected. Next time dont say “nonzerker gear” because it’s going to be wrong immediately, because you’re referring to sets that specifically have critical damage as one of the three stats.

What? Zerker specifically refers berserker gear not everything with crit damage.

RedSpectrum.1975:

ShibVicious.9681:

Seriously guys, for the love of God, stop QQing about the slight damage reduction you’ve received.
Regardless of whether you were using the gear in PvE or WvW you were using it because it did the most DPS. Guess what, it still does the most DPS.
The only difference….oh noes, now sometimes I might have to throw 1 or 2 more attacks than I used to, to down a person.

For some builds it is more than slight. For example, a hidden killer thief who runs valk armor and zerk trinkets will notice up to a 30% drop in damage. “But power is unaffected!” Builds like a Hidden Killer thief that rely heavily on critical damage might as well consider crit damage their actual damage since the moves you want to crit most should always crit. That being said, the drop is more than 10% easily.

I’m aware of this and to quite frank. Good. The “hidden thief killer” deserved a nerf. It’s kind of bull that a class can stealth, sneak up on somebody and practically instakill them before they even know they’re being attacked.
The fact remains that this build relies heavily on burst damage and the best way to get this burst damage is still using the same builds.
Also, losing 30% from your crit damage stat is nowhere near losing 30% damage overall, regardless of the fact they crit with nearly every attack. That’s just really bad maths. I can’t be bothered to look up the numbers a build like this would have had and now does have, but I would imagine that none of these builds are losing any more than 15% at most.

Balsa.3951:

I always think maybe zerker lost some % but other running around since years with only 20% of the dps what zerkers do

I run some dunguons with full zerk these days in pugs i feel no different at all

a few sec more maybe but nothing bad

Did Ac with our normal group, finished all paths within the same times as normal.

Killed Kholer before Wall of Reflect was down like normal, Killed P2 Ghost before Wall of Reflect was down again.

I see no change inside dungeons.

Shufflepants.9785:

Are there really people out there who believe that berzerker gear is no longer the best for pure DPS? All these people asking for a refund on their gear, if they got one, what would they replace it with given a total refund?

This. The thing about berserker gear is that, even with the 10% reduction to damage overall, it is still the best PVE gear in the game because zerker is still the fastest and highest damaging gear in the game. What people also underestimate is how small this change is. When builds are losing 20-30% off of their crit damage, they are actually losing very little overall damage, since this is on top of already having 220% or 230% crit damage.

I have a pure zerker set on every one of my toons, and I don’t even see the difference. Bombs on engi still hit for 6-8k. Thief pistol whip still hits for 20k. Lava font, fire ball, and meteors still hit for 4k each on ele. Though I disagree with the reduction caused by the ferocity change, I can’t lie to myself and say that it is significant or really impacted anything. Enemies in PVE still die before they can launch a fourth attack.

I also don’t see the complaints about celestial. Yeah, celestial lost a good amount of crit damage, but it gained some of everything else. More power, more precision. Has anyone even done the math to see whether the changes to celestial gear has resulted in a net increase or decrease in damage?

Shufflepants.9785:

I also don’t see the complaints about celestial. Yeah, celestial lost a good amount of crit damage, but it gained some of everything else. More power, more precision. Has anyone even done the math to see whether the changes to celestial gear has resulted in a net increase or decrease in damage?

They did. In the past, comparing celestial to soldier, it was 5% more dmg, than soldier, but 20% less defense, than soldier.

Now it is 5% less dmg than soldier and 15% less defense than soldier. So yeah… Its a lose-lose… better to just pick soldier.

Most of you are missing the point. The point is the effects that Ferocity has had on WvW.

For small scale, Conditions were already far and away the strongest, due to their extremely high skill floor and low skill ceiling. It’s extremely low risk high reward gameplay for most condition classes, except maybe Warrior. Condition classes can just go full dire, and be as tanky as full PVT, except do way more damage, plus have additional effects such as poison. They also are able to run and hide behind LoS, or even just run, while their enemy simply melts. It’s an incredibly passive playstyle, and the result is that the build plays the game for you more than you play the game. How in any way is that balanced?

So now we get people in WvW who grinded this game’s kittenty PvE so they could get their full ascended, only now to have their already weak state be further weakened.

Also, my build on my full ascended Guardian lost 42.3% critical damage. In WvW zerg fights, burst is the name of the game. If you can’t effectively burst, you can’t down people without more numbers. This change further promotes higher numbers in zerg fights, to the point where it’s just blob v blob with skill lag out the kitten . So now our gear that we worked so hard for is no longer worth the drop in survivability, so we are forced to change our gear.

This is literally the worst change that has yet come to GW2, and there have been some pretty kittenty changes.

adapt.

15 charrs

Sergoros.4398:

Shufflepants.9785:

I also don’t see the complaints about celestial. Yeah, celestial lost a good amount of crit damage, but it gained some of everything else. More power, more precision. Has anyone even done the math to see whether the changes to celestial gear has resulted in a net increase or decrease in damage?

They did. In the past, comparing celestial to soldier, it was 5% more dmg, than soldier, but 20% less defense, than soldier.

Now it is 5% less dmg than soldier and 15% less defense than soldier. So yeah… Its a lose-lose… better to just pick soldier.

I would like to know how these “damage and defense” percentages were arrived at in the first place? How did they factor in the extra condition damage of celestial? How did they factor in the higher proc rate of ‘on crit’ sigils, runes, and traits. How did they factor in the extra healing power? As a base, stat-to-stat comparison, you might right on the money. However, when you consider the synergy of the stats on celestial and the things they can do that PVT can’t, I’m sure you’ll find those percentage gaps quickly closing and may even going the other way.

Shufflepants.9785:

Are there really people out there who believe that berzerker gear is no longer the best for pure DPS?

It is possible that OP is not actually talking about berserker, but, for example, celestial. In which case some of his rage would be justified.
Yes, berserker is still the best DPS set (and still as good an option as it was before). Other DPS sets however took a big hit, and no longer compare.

Tman.6349:

However, when you consider the synergy of the stats on celestial and the things they can do that PVT can’t, I’m sure you’ll find those percentage gaps quickly closing and may even going the other way.

No, we won’t find. This topic has been returning over and over again for a year already. We know by now what we should expect from Celestials. Balanced sets simply do not work as good as you think they do (or at least not work with the balance point set that low). Both Healing Power and Condition Damage scale badly, and require significant investitions to be noticeable. (for example, the increase to condi damage due to rebalancing celestial translates to barely few more damage points per pulse on conditions). There is also absolutely nothing celestial can do that switching few PVT pieces for cleric, magi, zealot or some other dedicated stat would not do better.

Celestial from the beginning had only two things going for it. First was Magic find (and that was removed with no compensation to the rest of stats at the time MF went account-bound). Second was Crit Damage, that was way above the budget (which helped to bring the DPS of the set up to average). Ferocity change brought down critical damage value of the set by nearly a half, which, after including increases to the rest of the stats, ended up in a net decrease of dps. The calculations were done several times in different “celestial and ferocity change” threads, you can look them up.

Tman.6349:

Sergoros.4398:

Shufflepants.9785:

I also don’t see the complaints about celestial. Yeah, celestial lost a good amount of crit damage, but it gained some of everything else. More power, more precision. Has anyone even done the math to see whether the changes to celestial gear has resulted in a net increase or decrease in damage?

They did. In the past, comparing celestial to soldier, it was 5% more dmg, than soldier, but 20% less defense, than soldier.

Now it is 5% less dmg than soldier and 15% less defense than soldier. So yeah… Its a lose-lose… better to just pick soldier.

I would like to know how these “damage and defense” percentages were arrived at in the first place? How did they factor in the extra condition damage of celestial? How did they factor in the higher proc rate of ‘on crit’ sigils, runes, and traits. How did they factor in the extra healing power? As a base, stat-to-stat comparison, you might right on the money. However, when you consider the synergy of the stats on celestial and the things they can do that PVT can’t, I’m sure you’ll find those percentage gaps quickly closing and may even going the other way.

They counted only power, prec, toughens and vit. Before. If u only need this 4 stats. It was ok to take celestial over soldier. Now. The choice is opposite. Before. If u need 4 stats of 7 > It was ok to take celestial. Now… U have to be a hybrid with as much condi dmg as u have power dmg for this set to be viable.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/balance/Celestial-stat-compensation-mistake/first#post3829448

And it is obviously meant to be used that way. That has nothing to do with the fact that the other stats/sigil, rune, and trait price were never considered in either calculation. And now this doesn’t have to be a hybrid build for celestial to be better. It will be better in a lot of builds simply for the facts I mentioned above. Applying conditions, regen, and boons are passive effects of most builds and healing is pretty much a must, so I don’t know why you think you have to be dedicated to celestial for it to be better. Toughness and healing power have a lot of synergy. Precision has synergy with Ferocity, runes, sigils, and traits. Then the condition damage has synergy with the synergy of the precision. In PvP/wvw the meta is different, but in pve, celestial has 4-5 useful stats and pvt has 1. That’s the end of the comparison

Tman.6349:

And it is obviously meant to be used that way. That has nothing to do with the fact that the other stats/sigil, rune, and trait price were never considered in either calculation. And now this doesn’t have to be a hybrid build for celestial to be better. It will be better in a lot of builds simply for the facts I mentioned above. Applying conditions, regen, and boons are passive effects of most builds and healing is pretty much a must, so I don’t know why you think you have to be dedicated to celestial for it to be better. Toughness and healing power have a lot of synergy. Precision has synergy with Ferocity, runes, sigils, and traits. Then the condition damage has synergy with the synergy of the precision. In PvP/wvw the meta is different, but in pve, celestial has 4-5 useful stats and pvt has 1. That’s the end of the comparison

If u want to compare it to pve…then go compare it to rampage. Wow. So much loss. Very sad. Doge celestial

i have hundreds of guild tokens and fotm tokens…
I feel bad for players who had celestial and had no that much resources.

A stat change should ve been given to any ferocity equip in particular celestial and assassins.

ShibVicious.9681:

RedSpectrum.1975:

ShibVicious.9681:

Seriously guys, for the love of God, stop QQing about the slight damage reduction you’ve received.
Regardless of whether you were using the gear in PvE or WvW you were using it because it did the most DPS. Guess what, it still does the most DPS.
The only difference….oh noes, now sometimes I might have to throw 1 or 2 more attacks than I used to, to down a person.

For some builds it is more than slight. For example, a hidden killer thief who runs valk armor and zerk trinkets will notice up to a 30% drop in damage. “But power is unaffected!” Builds like a Hidden Killer thief that rely heavily on critical damage might as well consider crit damage their actual damage since the moves you want to crit most should always crit. That being said, the drop is more than 10% easily.

I’m aware of this and to quite frank. Good. The “hidden thief killer” deserved a nerf. It’s kind of bull that a class can stealth, sneak up on somebody and practically instakill them before they even know they’re being attacked.
The fact remains that this build relies heavily on burst damage and the best way to get this burst damage is still using the same builds.
Also, losing 30% from your crit damage stat is nowhere near losing 30% damage overall, regardless of the fact they crit with nearly every attack. That’s just really bad maths. I can’t be bothered to look up the numbers a build like this would have had and now does have, but I would imagine that none of these builds are losing any more than 15% at most.

To be fair, HK thieves don’t hit nearly as hard as pure glass so don’t confuse the two and you especially cannot now. That being said the build now would have an enormously difficult time with the pushed condi meta. As for stealthing, you know when a DD will try to stealth on you anyway so I don’t see what’s the big deal, regardless you guys think DD is so bad, wait til the PD thieves start spewing everywhere now

Why would I do that. You’re the one that posted stats of how miserable it is compared to pvt without specifying where you were even making these considerations in the first place. Being snide doesn’t make my other points go away. Celestial gonna be better in most builds anywhere, from a ‘offensive/defensive’ PoV, simply due to the synergy and multiplicative stacking of it’s stats.

Im running a warrior with full valk armor, ascended. Yes you read that correctly. Did a bunch of dungeons today, and guess what? Still doing the same amount of crit damage as before. Ran nearly the same traits 4/6/2/0/2. Maybe its just berserkers thats taking the brunt of the “nerf”, and are upset. No one else seems to care, or notice much at all.

Zerkers were always whiners anyway. That’s why I decided not to go zerker armor :P

Tman.6349:

Why would I do that. You’re the one that posted stats of how miserable it is compared to pvt without specifying where you were even making these considerations in the first place. Being snide doesn’t make my other points go away. Celestial gonna be better in most builds anywhere, from a ‘offensive/defensive’ PoV, simply due to the synergy and multiplicative stacking of it’s stats.

Wrong. Celestial gonna be worse, than something else in any situation possible. If your char isnt ele. Its damage is to low. Its defense is to low. If u would read link, that I posted. And would read posts in This topic. Celestial dmg always was average. And now. When crit dmg of celestial was nerfed by half…. It is now below average. And this is not good.

It ‘was always average’ based on your comparison to PVT? I’ve already read the link long, long ago when it was originally being discussed. How do you think I knew already that they didn’t account for the proc rate of sigils, runes, and traits? How did I know the left condition damage and healing power out of their ‘offense/defense’ calculations? How did I know they didn’t take into account that these things synergize and stack multiplicatively? Yes, they left these things out because they can’t be tested and are situational which was my whole point in the first place. Recommending, “It’s lose-lose. Just stick with PVT.”, based on reading some out of context math is ridiculous in this scenario. We can consider might stacking with Sigils/Runes of Strength on that Celestial gear, not to mention, the bleed procs, the vuln procs, the initiative gain procs, the vigor procs, the cripple procs, etc etc etc. Those comparisons leave ALL of this ‘offense/defense’ out of the comparison and try to make a blanket statement about two completely different sets of gear and then completely disregards the dynamics of one of them. Sure it seemed swell in an equation, but real experience in the game has a LOT more to it than just a couple corny stat comparisons followed by sweeping assertions. GG.

PVE vise, crit dmg was viable mostly due to really bad AI, and thats it. WVW vise , condi dmg is far more viable since even worst of players know how to dodge and move away from things like 100b .
So, imo, ferocity in a way, ruined power based builds for wvw, but did nothing to improve pve.
On other hand they actually did good with how wurm event is made. U need condi groups there , you need buffers/reflect teams and u somewhat need dps (balanced not like Tequatl).

So mainly , there was no need to nerf power based builds , instead of wasting time on that , they could actually invest some time to implement basic AI to dungeons and world events , for at least champ and + mobs in the game.

MightyMicah.7451:

I feel you. I’d like that as well. Ascended gear takes a lot of gold and time to make. Ascended gear itself was already part of the devs going back on their word and adding a whole extra tier of rarity. Making one set was bad enough, but now making a whole new set? Too much grindy-ness >.<

I pity the people who had 4 or 5 characters decked out in ascended gear who now feel that their gear is useless.

Yep. Anet really screwed up with the Ascended gear. Now whenever someone’s gear becomes obsolete, whether due to nerfs or new traits or new skills, they’re going to be unhappy about having to regrind gear. The funny thing is that new traits/skills are needed to keep the game fresh.

So Anet can’t win. But of course, they did it to themselves.

Tman.6349:

It ‘was always average’ based on your comparison to PVT? I’ve already read the link long, long ago when it was originally being discussed. How do you think I knew already that they didn’t account for the proc rate of sigils, runes, and traits? How did I know the left condition damage and healing power out of their ‘offense/defense’ calculations? How did I know they didn’t take into account that these things synergize and stack multiplicatively? Yes, they left these things out because they can’t be tested and are situational which was my whole point in the first place. Recommending, “It’s lose-lose. Just stick with PVT.”, based on reading some out of context math is ridiculous in this scenario. We can consider might stacking with Sigils/Runes of Strength on that Celestial gear, not to mention, the bleed procs, the vuln procs, the initiative gain procs, the vigor procs, the cripple procs, etc etc etc. Those comparisons leave ALL of this ‘offense/defense’ out of the comparison and try to make a blanket statement about two completely different sets of gear and then completely disregards the dynamics of one of them. Sure it seemed swell in an equation, but real experience in the game has a LOT more to it than just a couple corny stat comparisons followed by sweeping assertions. GG.

Ok. Let me make it more clear to u. Before. Some people was betting on this 4 stats + crit, when they choose to use celestial. And it was viable with this choices. Now. Yes. This set might be viable in some cases. But it is not viable anymore for people who care only about this 4 stats+ crit. Do you undestand this much at least? This is another set now. With its own drawbacks and benefits. But not the one we made.

OP, was the bizarre formatting of your post intended to be poetic? It’s not; it looks silly. You also misspelled “ferocity”.

I assume you take issue with the fact that the crit damage nerf most heavily effects Berzerker’s stats (unless you’re running Assassin’s or some bizarre other stat; Possibly Celestial though I’m personally happy with the changes to my Celestial gear). This was INTENDED to hit Zerker’s the hardest, the very reason you used Zerker’s (IE it was by far the most effective overall and thus overused) was why the patch happened- Berzerker’s is still plenty powerful, and still easily competes with other stat combinations.

There is an 18 page thread on gear swapping due to nerf here :
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Zerker-nerfed-allow-us-to-swap-asc-gear/

Piogre.2164:

OP, was the bizarre formatting of your post intended to be poetic? It’s not; it looks silly. You also misspelled “ferocity”.

I assume you take issue with the fact that the crit damage nerf most heavily effects Berzerker’s stats (unless you’re running Assassin’s or some bizarre other stat; I know it’s not Celestial because we Celestial users got a compensatory buff). This was INTENDED to hit Zerker’s the hardest, the very reason you used Zerker’s (IE it was by far the most effective overall and thus overused) was why the patch happened- Berzerker’s is still plenty powerful, and still easily competes with other stat combinations.

Yes i buy a smartphone….it got taken away from me but i got a bycicle to compensate…

So nice….

LordByron.8369:

Yes i buy a smartphone….it got taken away from me but i got a bycicle to compensate…

So nice….

Fair enough, edited

Sergoros.4398:

Tman.6349:

It ‘was always average’ based on your comparison to PVT? I’ve already read the link long, long ago when it was originally being discussed. How do you think I knew already that they didn’t account for the proc rate of sigils, runes, and traits? How did I know the left condition damage and healing power out of their ‘offense/defense’ calculations? How did I know they didn’t take into account that these things synergize and stack multiplicatively? Yes, they left these things out because they can’t be tested and are situational which was my whole point in the first place. Recommending, “It’s lose-lose. Just stick with PVT.”, based on reading some out of context math is ridiculous in this scenario. We can consider might stacking with Sigils/Runes of Strength on that Celestial gear, not to mention, the bleed procs, the vuln procs, the initiative gain procs, the vigor procs, the cripple procs, etc etc etc. Those comparisons leave ALL of this ‘offense/defense’ out of the comparison and try to make a blanket statement about two completely different sets of gear and then completely disregards the dynamics of one of them. Sure it seemed swell in an equation, but real experience in the game has a LOT more to it than just a couple corny stat comparisons followed by sweeping assertions. GG.

Ok. Let me make it more clear to u. Before. Some people was betting on this 4 stats + crit, when they choose to use celestial. And it was viable with this choices. Now. Yes. This set might be viable in some cases. But it is not viable anymore for people who care only about this 4 stats+ crit. Do you undestand this much at least? This is another set now. With its own drawbacks and benefits. But not the one we made.

yes i understand that your celestial gear has been hit hard with the ferocity change drastically lowering your crit damage. i also understand that it’s stupid to say that you’re now better off in pvt gear. if you’re build “relied” in power, prec, and crit damage AT ALL at ANY time in the past, then it still will and pvt will be garbage on the same setup. on another note, the damage that we all lost was given back to us through an op runeset, better sigil selection/mix n matching as well as almost all sigils being buffed. my point still stands that there’s a lot more to being effective than a shallow stat comparison. yes i get it. your celestial was nerfed and you feel the need to treat me like i’m stupid so you can vent and get you’re feelings out there. I hope you feel better now. No you didn’t “clear anything up”. You just sounding condescending and still completely ignored all the points that I made about how whack it is to compare Celestial gear to PVT. At least, it’s a great time to be full zerker so that turned out pretty nice for all of us after all

Tman.6349:

You just sounding condescending and still completely ignored all the points that I made about how whack it is to compare Celestial gear to PVT. At least, it’s a great time to be full zerker so that turned out pretty nice for all of us after all

Point in celestial was getting an halfway ground between PvT and Zerker

The moment you fall back from PVT and yet have less defence the equipment you choose becomes unviable for your build and purpose.

PVT is extremely significant in the comparison since it MAXES power.
While the balanced DPS from celestial came multiplying an extremely high crit damage to a really low POWER.

Result was infact slightly more than PVT but could be pushed to the desired midground mixing with other stats in other slots.

If you consider how many dps checks are in this game you can see why people needed a minimum dps.

(example Healing signet, or brst before stealth or stuff like that).

rebalancing is common and most of all necessary in mmorpg. Get used to it or look for another type of game. this will always happen and only warrant for a compensation in the most extreme cases.

LordByron.8369:

Tman.6349:

You just sounding condescending and still completely ignored all the points that I made about how whack it is to compare Celestial gear to PVT. At least, it’s a great time to be full zerker so that turned out pretty nice for all of us after all

Point in celestial was getting an halfway ground between PvT and Zerker

The moment you fall back from PVT and yet have less defence the equipment you choose becomes unviable for your build and purpose.

PVT is extremely significant in the comparison since it MAXES power.
While the balanced DPS from celestial came multiplying an extremely high crit damage to a really low POWER.

Result was infact slightly more than PVT but could be pushed to the desired midground mixing with other stats in other slots.

If you consider how many dps checks are in this game you can see why people needed a minimum dps.

(example Healing signet, or brst before stealth or stuff like that).

^This

Algreg.3629:

rebalancing is common and most of all necessary in mmorpg. Get used to it or look for another type of game. this will always happen and only warrant for a compensation in the most extreme cases.

So is it fine, if anet would decide to rebalance pvt set and make it into rampage instead? I understand rebalancing, when hey tweak numbers and change skills. Its fine. But when they totally change purpose of a hard-to-craft gear > it is not normal.

Sergoros.4398:

Algreg.3629:

rebalancing is common and most of all necessary in mmorpg. Get used to it or look for another type of game. this will always happen and only warrant for a compensation in the most extreme cases.

So is it fine, if anet would decide to rebalance pvt set and make it into rampage instead? I understand rebalancing, when hey tweak numbers and change skills. Its fine. But when they totally change purpose of a hard-to-craft gear > it is not normal.

Rebalance =/= repurpose.

Sarrs.4831:

Sergoros.4398:

Algreg.3629:

rebalancing is common and most of all necessary in mmorpg. Get used to it or look for another type of game. this will always happen and only warrant for a compensation in the most extreme cases.

So is it fine, if anet would decide to rebalance pvt set and make it into rampage instead? I understand rebalancing, when hey tweak numbers and change skills. Its fine. But when they totally change purpose of a hard-to-craft gear > it is not normal.

Rebalance =/= repurpose.

And this is exactly what happened with celestial. It was repurposed.