Guild Wars 2

Seriously, good luck. Despite my many disagreements with various things, you guys are a great company with a great product. I’ve been with you since the early days of GW1 and it meant a lot to me when I heard about the release GW2. You guys deserve a solid win.

I honestly do hope for the next expansion to be the big success and smash hit arenanet deserves.

GW2 has remained the best buy2play (and free2play) non cash shop required MMO on the market which is no total korean grindfest (no offense, just not so popular in the western market).

The next expansion and the variety it will possibily offer with finally different elite skills for classes may become a game changer.

Another grindfest expansion? Nice.

Sadly im not as hyped for this expansion as I was with HOT. HOT wasn’t even that bad but the PvP/WVW balance, Trait system has been butchered and Raids have become the main area of focus (should of never added or made them larger/harder dungeons) is putting me off to this game slowly every day. I only come on for dailies which is such a sad thing to say as I got a lot of passion for this game that I played since beta.

Mil.3562:

Another grindfest expansion? Nice.

There are no MMO’s that are without time sinks. That’s the nature of the genre.

Back on topic, I too wish ANet well.

Mil.3562:

Another grindfest expansion? Nice.

Another?? When did we get the first one??

LinhZeri.6412:

Sadly im not as hyped for this expansion as I was with HOT. HOT wasn’t even that bad but the PvP/WVW balance, Trait system has been butchered and Raids have become the main area of focus (should of never added or made them larger/harder dungeons) is putting me off to this game slowly every day. I only come on for dailies which is such a sad thing to say as I got a lot of passion for this game that I played since beta.

I am more exited, but to be fair Hot did not do it for me at all. I did not bother buying it, and I do hope this expansion is more like the original game. Surprise me Anet, my CC is ready

Oh and please do not make me have to play Hot, please please.

Famine.3164:

Mil.3562:

Another grindfest expansion? Nice.

Another?? When did we get the first one??

Hmmm let’s see.

Mastery Point Grind via repeating Meta events and participating in boring minigames repeated times? Check. Maps with currencies related to meta events and resource farming in order to get skins? Check. Grinding said maps in order to progress the story? Check.

Can you stop pretending there was more to HoT content than grinding? And don’t come with the “Hurr Durr it’s MMO it must has grinden to b alyve!11!!!”… What this game needed was exciting content, a healthy flow of it, not locking players into farming metas.

Certain aspects I’ve enjoyed and other aspects is what I left other games for but Anet seems to be doing more good than bad with their content releases and expansions.

I do think the grind is a bit much for casual players like myself but without some grind, players would play Guild Wars 2 when new content is released and complain about it. Look at the Legendaries released, while I can’t say I’m overly excited about them, there are people who have gone through the new content already and complain.

Not sure where the balance is. The is Anet’s job. Hopefully they can narrow the gap.

Aldath.1275:

Famine.3164:

Mil.3562:

Another grindfest expansion? Nice.

Another?? When did we get the first one??

Hmmm let’s see.

Mastery Point Grind via repeating Meta events and participating in boring minigames repeated times? Check. Maps with currencies related to meta events and resource farming in order to get skins? Check. Grinding said maps in order to progress the story? Check.

Can you stop pretending there was more to HoT content than grinding? And don’t come with the “Hurr Durr it’s MMO it must has grinden to b alyve!11!!!”… What this game needed was exciting content, a healthy flow of it, not locking players into farming metas.

I dont once recall grinding for mastery points.

In fact the only grinds i can recall doing were self imposed for legendary items which is fine. Perhaps you just don’t like playing the content in this game and would find something like Solitaire more your style ?

Aldath.1275:

Famine.3164:

Mil.3562:

Another grindfest expansion? Nice.

Another?? When did we get the first one??

Hmmm let’s see.

Mastery Point Grind via repeating Meta events and participating in boring minigames repeated times? Check. Maps with currencies related to meta events and resource farming in order to get skins? Check. Grinding said maps in order to progress the story? Check.

Can you stop pretending there was more to HoT content than grinding? And don’t come with the “Hurr Durr it’s MMO it must has grinden to b alyve!11!!!”… What this game needed was exciting content, a healthy flow of it, not locking players into farming metas.

So what do you want to do with your time ingame…
I doubt you’d be grinding dungeons or fractals, or raids.
I doubt you ever did the Multiloot, Silverwastes and Orr farms,
I doubt you ever completed the achievements requiring repetition.
I doubt you’ve grinded the WvW ranks and are now gold or mithril level
I doubt you ever grinded PvP matches so you are now bunny, dolyak or maybe wolf…

SO: What did you do?

I played over 12k hours, about 7.5k-8 in vanilla and 4.5-4 k in HoT

There are some things I rather avoid doing, but
I made legendary armor on my main,
I have half a dozen legendaries,
I have 25 or 26 ascneded armors on my 23 lvl 80s.
I am lvl 100 fractals have the omni potion and the fractal backpack.
I did some WvW leaving me at lvl ~900
I did some PvP and I’m Wolf rank…. I think I didi some dungeons 1000 times give or take a few.

Some things require repetition even if it’s only simple tasks….
I do agree the grind has become more abundant. and the developing people no longer look at the numbers. Which is a distantiation of the set of the ArenaNet’s self imposed principles which were outlined at the release of this game.

Everyone knows some drops are more rare then others… I do not know why “some recent idea’s” sprung to mind and were not “adjusted to droprate and rarity” (Blood rubies, A net?)

This said it’s way less grindy then I expected… STILL, but we are fast reaching a cap due to developers forgetting to check on their own set values and consquently pover drop rates.

grindy kinda comes with the genre period if by hunting and killing mobs is grind to you then well time to find a linear game to play.

I do wish and hope this expansion will hit the reset button and undo a lot of the damage that has been done to the game, especially WVW and PVP, they seem to be going in the right direction with the last few months, but I’m not holding my breath.

things I would like to see addressed :

-general HoT powercreep – traits – especially flattening out based stats resulting in not enough trade offs on focused builds of all sorts
-general HoT powercreep – gear / statweights
-general HoT powercreep – player abilities – too many passives and not enough actives dumbing down gameplay significantly
-general HoT powercreep – too many boons
-general HoT powercreep – too many condis, especially generated by non-condi focused players but providing cover thus making counterplay less or in some cases entirely ineffective.

Server lag / A-nets ISP lag – vastly related to the hardware and general network structure unable to handle the above.

Content wise :

Too many vertical maps that feel like giant jumping / gliding puzzles and are grosly unintuitive. While having some of these elements is nice for play variety, there should absolutely not be entire maps like this, or at least not ones that are required for progression of other game elements. They should be entirely optional.

Too many masteries locked behind stupid transform things and whatnot where players can’t use their skills. Very bad. Gaining a total mastery point number should have at least some options as to how a player gets there, regardless if its exploration, combat or mini-games, not just be locked in and unable to obtain a ceirtain mastery or a number of them unless that player grinds unfun and often frustrating content.

Too much content locked behind the above mentioned grind, often frustrating to players.

So these are some of the main points I would like to see addressed via expansion. And like I said, I hope they will be, but I fear that they won’t and things will get even worse.

Definitely one of the companies that tries to innovate the type of content they put out. Guild Wars always has me coming back to it no matter what game I play. They have done many things right and continue to try to add new and exciting things. Granted their are some things which I would have like done differently, but over all it is well done.

Thanks for the many hours of enjoyment.

If the upcoming x-pac is anything like the last one, I’ll be saving my $$$$.

Tongku.5326:

I do wish and hope this expansion will hit the reset button and undo a lot of the damage that has been done to the game…

There’s literally nothing about the game that you didn’t complain about in this post. You should probably find another game to play, to be honest.

On-topic:
Thanks for all the fish ArenaNet, I’ve had some major beefs with you over the years but you seem to’ve recovered from “The Wreck of Yesteryear” and got back on track, so I’m very much looking forward to this next expansion !

See you soon.

Aldath.1275:

Famine.3164:

Mil.3562:

Another grindfest expansion? Nice.

Another?? When did we get the first one??

Hmmm let’s see.

Mastery Point Grind via repeating Meta events and participating in boring minigames repeated times? Check. Maps with currencies related to meta events and resource farming in order to get skins? Check. Grinding said maps in order to progress the story? Check.

Can you stop pretending there was more to HoT content than grinding? And don’t come with the “Hurr Durr it’s MMO it must has grinden to b alyve!11!!!”… What this game needed was exciting content, a healthy flow of it, not locking players into farming metas.

I think you are wrong. May I remind you that in the past, everybody grinded the hell out of world bosses, Orr temples, queensdale champions farm, frostgorge sound and plynx failed meta events, dry top and silverwaste as well the (in)famous 2 weeks gated living world event in which, strangely enough, you bought rewards with ingame currency or for other grind related events, you got lots of mats to sell/use in order to become rich or craft yourself something nice………..I mean seriously, did you forget all of that ? I personally do not see not much difference between pre-HoT and now

As for the topic at hand, I agree with OP. Good luck to Anet

I might be the odd ball here but MMO doesn’t equal grind to me.

Maybe it’s because I don’t care at all about armor skin, dye or having 1% stronger stats. What I find interesting in MMO is the community and what I find challenging/interesting to do is try to organize the players to achieve complicated things group wise like raiding or wvw guild run.

The social aspect is where all the fun is.

I hope there is a large competitive part to this expansion an not just a second stronghold map… It’s pass time to bring GvG back to Guild Wars.

What actually is the definition of “grinding.”
eg I spend a lot of my game time making money on the TP.
Is this grinding?

I started playing GW2 because I loved core Tyria. If the new expansion is more platforming I won’t be staying long.

Stand The Wall.6987:

Seriously, good luck. Despite my many disagreements with various things, you guys are a great company with a great product. I’ve been with you since the early days of GW1 and it meant a lot to me when I heard about the release GW2. You guys deserve a solid win.

./swordsalute +1

Aldath.1275:

Famine.3164:

Mil.3562:

Another grindfest expansion? Nice.

Another?? When did we get the first one??

Hmmm let’s see.

Mastery Point Grind via repeating Meta events and participating in boring minigames repeated times? Check. Maps with currencies related to meta events and resource farming in order to get skins? Check. Grinding said maps in order to progress the story? Check.

Can you stop pretending there was more to HoT content than grinding? And don’t come with the “Hurr Durr it’s MMO it must has grinden to b alyve!11!!!”… What this game needed was exciting content, a healthy flow of it, not locking players into farming metas.

To get the masteries you need to complete the HoT story, you never had to repeat a single event. Not one. Ever. You didn’t have to grind the meta. Do you know who did that? People who wanted to get it FAST. That’s it.

If you were smart enough to use food and a utility, a guild boost and a celebration booster, you could easily and I do mean easily, get through the HoT story all the way to the end, without ever repeating a single quest.

There are five major quest hubs in VB and during the day each of them has about 9 quests. In addition there are plenty of mastery points, since you only need a handful to get enough masteries to complete the story.

I had the masteries I needed to complete the story done by the second day of HoT and I wasn’t repeating anything. You must be using some new, strange definition of grinding I’d not previously been aware of.

Hell if you did some of the adventures along the way even if you only got bronze or silver on them, you’d be done with the masteries you needed to finish the HoT story.

If you wanted more stuff, it would take you longer, but there’s still relatively little repetition.

You know the world boss train has been in the game for ages, and people dont’ call that grinding, at least I’ve never heard it referred that way. What Anet gave you was more complex meta events that had many events leading up to them.

If you repeated the meta over and over again or killed spider,s well, you chose to grind then. It wasn’t necessary to get the basics. The rest of it could be gotten over time as you played.

As for the collections being grindy, they were ways to get ascended weapons for free. Not sure that the grind was so bad for an end game item that you had the option to craft anyway.

Edit: I too wish Anet luck with the new expansion. I suspect however, due to some very loud voices on the forums, Anet will make changes in a direction that I’m less happy with. I hope we’re not back to the days of pressing 1 to win.

IndigoSundown.5419:

Mil.3562:

Another grindfest expansion? Nice.

There are no MMO’s that are without time sinks. That’s the nature of the genre.

Back on topic, I too wish ANet well.

This is absolutely true. And, I love grinding in an MMO; I believe the presence of grinds does nothing but enrich the game. The only distinction I make is between optional grinds and non-optional grinds. Some non-optional grinds are necessary in your typical MMO: 1-max level anyone? It’s just that post max level I would prefer that the game would shift away from non-optional grinds to more and more optional ones. An example of a non-optional grind would be any grind that increases your power level, so vertical progression would be an example of a non-optional grind. You simply must keep up with the power curve or you eventually won’t be able to play. But basically any grind that advances the core game would be by definition non-optional.

But the options around optional grinds are endless in a modern MMO. I would like to see evidence that this is a principle at Anet. The Anet that released GW2 was principle rich. In fact, this is what caused me to purchase and play GW2 since before it was released. Currently, principles, design principles, get short shrift at Anet. Perhaps with the addition of VandenBerghe to the team there will be a return to a thoughtful design philosophy.

Hope everyone loves it.

mauried.5608:

What actually is the definition of “grinding.”
eg I spend a lot of my game time making money on the TP.
Is this grinding?

grind
verb

1. Reducing something to small particles. Like salt.

2. Completing content in Guild Wars 2 that you don’t like, or would rather not do, even though Colin Johanson once said that you could “play how you want”…and you took it rather literally.

Good luck Anet!

You did amazing job in LS3, especially the end is breath-taking!

See you tomorrow!

Raine.1394:

IndigoSundown.5419:

Mil.3562:

Another grindfest expansion? Nice.

There are no MMO’s that are without time sinks. That’s the nature of the genre.

Back on topic, I too wish ANet well.

This is absolutely true. And, I love grinding in an MMO; I believe the presence of grinds does nothing but enrich the game. The only distinction I make is between optional grinds and non-optional grinds. Some non-optional grinds are necessary in your typical MMO: 1-max level anyone? It’s just that post max level I would prefer that the game would shift away from non-optional grinds to more and more optional ones. An example of a non-optional grind would be any grind that increases your power level, so vertical progression would be an example of a non-optional grind. You simply must keep up with the power curve or you eventually won’t be able to play. But basically any grind that advances the core game would be by definition non-optional.

But the options around optional grinds are endless in a modern MMO. I would like to see evidence that this is a principle at Anet. The Anet that released GW2 was principle rich. In fact, this is what caused me to purchase and play GW2 since before it was released. Currently, principles, design principles, get short shrift at Anet. Perhaps with the addition of VandenBerghe to the team there will be a return to a thoughtful design philosophy.

I’m having trouble identifying a non-optional grind in GW2. For some, Ascended will be non-optional, but actually needing Ascended as opposed to wanting it involves choosing to do high level FotM or choosing to enter PuG raid groups with gear requirements (if that’s even still a thing).

I do think though that the game development philosophy has shifted from, “Focus more on creating lots of interesting things to do, with rewards as an afterthought.” to something more like, “Add a few interesting things to do, along with a new map currency and several optional things to buy with it.” Thing is, I don’t really expect that to change, because I think that a lot of MMO fans care more about the carrot than the journey.

rifle thief meta hype

aspirine.6852:

I am more exited, but to be fair Hot did not do it for me at all. I did not bother buying it, and I do hope this expansion is more like the original game. Surprise me Anet, my CC is ready

Oh and please do not make me have to play Hot, please please.

If you didn’t buy it, then how do you know “HoT did not do it” for you?

While I will agree that there are valid things to complain about in HoT, and LWS3 for that matter, I still spend more time in the four HoT maps than the others. HoT forced me to become a better player on ALL of my toons, not just my main. Because of HoT, I’m more likely to pop my commander tag and run stuff, instead of just using it for guild stuff. HoT added a lot to the game. I’ll admit, it was a huge shock going from easy maps like Frostgorge or Malchor’s Leap to VB, AB, TD, and DS, but it was a good shock. It made me get better so that I can run a full glass berserker PS warrior wherever, and whenever I want. Core Tyria didn’t do that.

YMMV

I expect grind, platforming, lots of loose plot threads, and more and more OHKO red rings and effects that require flawless timing to avoid. I also don’t expect the game to get any colorblind support. In 2017.

IndigoSundown.5419:

Raine.1394:

IndigoSundown.5419:

Mil.3562:

Another grindfest expansion? Nice.

There are no MMO’s that are without time sinks. That’s the nature of the genre.

Back on topic, I too wish ANet well.

This is absolutely true. And, I love grinding in an MMO; I believe the presence of grinds does nothing but enrich the game. The only distinction I make is between optional grinds and non-optional grinds. Some non-optional grinds are necessary in your typical MMO: 1-max level anyone? It’s just that post max level I would prefer that the game would shift away from non-optional grinds to more and more optional ones. An example of a non-optional grind would be any grind that increases your power level, so vertical progression would be an example of a non-optional grind. You simply must keep up with the power curve or you eventually won’t be able to play. But basically any grind that advances the core game would be by definition non-optional.

But the options around optional grinds are endless in a modern MMO. I would like to see evidence that this is a principle at Anet. The Anet that released GW2 was principle rich. In fact, this is what caused me to purchase and play GW2 since before it was released. Currently, principles, design principles, get short shrift at Anet. Perhaps with the addition of VandenBerghe to the team there will be a return to a thoughtful design philosophy.

I’m having trouble identifying a non-optional grind in GW2. For some, Ascended will be non-optional, but actually needing Ascended as opposed to wanting it involves choosing to do high level FotM or choosing to enter PuG raid groups with gear requirements (if that’s even still a thing).

I do think though that the game development philosophy has shifted from, “Focus more on creating lots of interesting things to do, with rewards as an afterthought.” to something more like, “Add a few interesting things to do, along with a new map currency and several optional things to buy with it.” Thing is, I don’t really expect that to change, because I think that a lot of MMO fans care more about the carrot than the journey.

Well with HoT they did try to give people optional things to do. How many adventures are in HoT? They’re all optional things to do with their own leaderboards. And sometimes I’ll go and play fallen masks, just for fun because I enjoy it. Bugs in the Branches too. They’re like Sanctum Sprint was originally, except on a smaller scale.

And there are still jumping puzzles coming out. Completing new maps is also a thing to do. The leather farm is a thing to do. New Fractals are a thing to do

Saying that they were originally coming out with interesting things to do, and now they’re not doesn’t make sense. What was in the game originally? Dungeons, personal stories, minigames, open world map exploration, world bosses/metas, crafting. They’re still coming out with all of those things.

If anything, to me, the scavenger hunts and current events and quests like the calabolg quest are all new things to do. What’s really changed?

Kaltyn of Torbins Deep.2946:

aspirine.6852:

I am more exited, but to be fair Hot did not do it for me at all. I did not bother buying it, and I do hope this expansion is more like the original game. Surprise me Anet, my CC is ready

Oh and please do not make me have to play Hot, please please.

If you didn’t buy it, then how do you know “HoT did not do it” for you?

While I will agree that there are valid things to complain about in HoT, and LWS3 for that matter, I still spend more time in the four HoT maps than the others. HoT forced me to become a better player on ALL of my toons, not just my main. Because of HoT, I’m more likely to pop my commander tag and run stuff, instead of just using it for guild stuff. HoT added a lot to the game. I’ll admit, it was a huge shock going from easy maps like Frostgorge or Malchor’s Leap to VB, AB, TD, and DS, but it was a good shock. It made me get better so that I can run a full glass berserker PS warrior wherever, and whenever I want. Core Tyria didn’t do that.

YMMV

Nothing and I do mean absolutely nothing that I watched from HoT was not appealing to me. It was for me if they made the game 10 times worse from what I liked about the original. I’m glad you don’t feel like that, but I will never touch it. If the expansion is more like HoT and less like the normal game I wish them the best of luck, but it’s not for me.

Big win? Yeah i’d like to see them get it too, but, I’ve already lost all interest in the expansion based on what’s been leaked.

Vayne.8563:

IndigoSundown.5419:

Raine.1394:

IndigoSundown.5419:

Mil.3562:

Another grindfest expansion? Nice.

There are no MMO’s that are without time sinks. That’s the nature of the genre.

Back on topic, I too wish ANet well.

This is absolutely true. And, I love grinding in an MMO; I believe the presence of grinds does nothing but enrich the game. The only distinction I make is between optional grinds and non-optional grinds. Some non-optional grinds are necessary in your typical MMO: 1-max level anyone? It’s just that post max level I would prefer that the game would shift away from non-optional grinds to more and more optional ones. An example of a non-optional grind would be any grind that increases your power level, so vertical progression would be an example of a non-optional grind. You simply must keep up with the power curve or you eventually won’t be able to play. But basically any grind that advances the core game would be by definition non-optional.

But the options around optional grinds are endless in a modern MMO. I would like to see evidence that this is a principle at Anet. The Anet that released GW2 was principle rich. In fact, this is what caused me to purchase and play GW2 since before it was released. Currently, principles, design principles, get short shrift at Anet. Perhaps with the addition of VandenBerghe to the team there will be a return to a thoughtful design philosophy.

I’m having trouble identifying a non-optional grind in GW2. For some, Ascended will be non-optional, but actually needing Ascended as opposed to wanting it involves choosing to do high level FotM or choosing to enter PuG raid groups with gear requirements (if that’s even still a thing).

I do think though that the game development philosophy has shifted from, “Focus more on creating lots of interesting things to do, with rewards as an afterthought.” to something more like, “Add a few interesting things to do, along with a new map currency and several optional things to buy with it.” Thing is, I don’t really expect that to change, because I think that a lot of MMO fans care more about the carrot than the journey.

Well with HoT they did try to give people optional things to do. How many adventures are in HoT? They’re all optional things to do with their own leaderboards. And sometimes I’ll go and play fallen masks, just for fun because I enjoy it. Bugs in the Branches too. They’re like Sanctum Sprint was originally, except on a smaller scale.

And there are still jumping puzzles coming out. Completing new maps is also a thing to do. The leather farm is a thing to do. New Fractals are a thing to do

Saying that they were originally coming out with interesting things to do, and now they’re not doesn’t make sense. What was in the game originally? Dungeons, personal stories, minigames, open world map exploration, world bosses/metas, crafting. They’re still coming out with all of those things.

If anything, to me, the scavenger hunts and current events and quests like the calabolg quest are all new things to do. What’s really changed?

I think his last paragraph is more a reference to the post HoT LS3 maps which do seem to be shorter on interesting things to do than the HoT maps. Understandably so IMO as they are short iteration content seemingly meant to keep us occupied between expansions. Ive enjoyed them for the most part but then I also can enjoy farming.