Guild Wars 2

We knew about the e-sport thing since before launch. If you’re going to complain, at least get your game history right.

Sentry.3691:

Why do people keep buying into this bs? If a competitive mode is not meant to be balanced, there is absolutely no reason to play it. The simple fact of the matter is that Anet is clueless when it comes to wvw. They don’t know what to do, so they have decided to just give up. This whole ‘it was never meant to be balanced’ thing is just Anet hand-waving the problem away.

Anet doesn’t seem to realize that there are many, many players like me who will be giving up on the game soon because wvw was the only thing keeping us here. Wvw is GW2’s only end-game content worth playing. And wvw is dying rapidly; Ascended gear, poor class balance, massive server population differences, zerging, skill lag, the bloodlust buff, and the upcoming wvw leagues are going to kill it.

Don’t act like Anet’s stance on wvw balance makes sense, please.

The reason why its not a problem that is not balanced is because WvW isnt one on one PvP its as the name itself implies WvW… if a player dies in combat (at least prior to the blood lust thing) it had 0 impact on win/loose.

Besides no matter what Arenanet do WvW can never be balanced because there is no way to balance stuff on a huge map with 500vs500vs500 battles.

Everyone is split up so if you’re 50 people assaulting a keep with 20 people and a zerg of 150 people from the other server shows up how can such a battle ever be balanced? Same with Siege weapons, an arrow cart does order of magnitude more damage then most classes could ever hope for and it does that at a greater distance and affects more players then player skills do. But all of that is okey because ultimately its not about individual fights its about a big picture. So going back to my 50vs20vs150 keep scenario in all likeliness the 150 strong server will destroy the 50 or so weakened invader and then overcome whats remaining of the 20 or so defense force… thats not a problem because 20 or so defense force has another 480 players elsewhere taking other objectives. If they’re wise they’ll use their superior numbers to strike at the server that just took a keep from them while they’re defense force is more fractured.

Simple speaking WvW is not about 1vs1, its a big long term strategic war between servers.

Too tired to read the whole thread.

GW2 is still casual friendly.

Just play as if Ascended Gears never existed. Just play as if Legendary Weapons never existed.

You still have a LOT to do in-game without these things. When you think about minmaxing stats based on the best gears available, then you are definitely not a casual player. But that’s just my opinion.

IndigoSundown.5419:

Galen Grey.4709:

What kind of content are you looking for cause so far since release they’ve issued

PvP maps
(2 iirc, both conquest mode, so new maps but not new gameplay)
[4x, Raid on Capricorn – August, Temple of the silent storm – November, Spirit watch – Feburary, Sky hammer – July]

Jumping Puzzles
(not for everyone)
[fair enough, I am not implying every update had stuff you like just thats basically impossible that no single update had something you like]

New Dynamic events (hard to ID as new; can I definitively say this is new, or did I miss it the last time through?)
[100% True, Except for the ones on southsun I couldnt tell you which where say the 30 new dynamic events they released in halloween but does that mean they weren’t added or that we didnt enjoy them? provided you like that sort of thing?]

New Mini Dungeons
(where?)
[Vexa lab in Fireheart Rise, Forsaken Fortune in Dredgehaunt Cliffs.]

New Dungeons
(FotM, one of the two best additions; where are MF and AR, though?)
[give it time, they brought back the mini games already]

Solo PvE Bosses (the queen’s guantlet thing)
(gone)
[so just cause its gone it doesnt mean it never existed + its coming back]

New Zones
(Ah, the Southsun wasteland, where there is little to do solo and little reason for larger groups to go there; and where is Labyrinthine Cliffs?)
[actually southsun cove is the only place in the game where is challenging to go solo!, for now gone coming back later on]

New Group events
(The invasions, poor imitations of invasions from Rift)
[not just invasion, but also new meta events like karka queen and world events like the skritt theif, the new champion . world bosses modifications]

Guild Missions
(the other of the two best additions)
[well at least there are 2 things spread in 3 updates that you enjoyed unlike nuka cola who said not a single update had stuff he and his friends like]

Changes to Achievements
(QoL changes for dailies and monthlies; a plethora of click x y times for achievement; rewards being added — that was a nice initiative, but it’s not something you can play, really, but something you get by playing)
[yes and no, its true most of stuff you can get by playing whatever you feel playing but since there are desirable rewards attached to achievements I am sure for some achievements became a new goal that was previously disregarded]

New Skins
(some good, some bad, some RNG, some pay — again, not something you can play)
[not directly no but its incentive to play certain content you might not know about / disregard without said rewards]

New World events
(Teq — popular now, but who knows for how long; and the back end issues are harder to deal with than the boss)

What could you possibly want to play with your friends that isn’t included in that list above…

Comments on your list in parentheses. I eliminated the duplicates.

snip..

I added some inline replies to your inline replies as for the rest.

There are “elite” areas with different rewards and rare skins, all champions now have their own rare skins. Even Taqualt has rare alternative ascended weapons skins for example. So while still pretty new this has started in the last 3 updates

completely agree with hard mode for dungeons, that would be nice

More player involvement in shaping the story would be nice but also tricky. You got millions of players you cannot fork the story in millions to billions of ways on going for sure. They said they’re working on it and it will be interesting to see what they come up with. Something much more immersive then the election we had would be nice. We’ll see. Gw1 didnt have that though either.

Well wouldnt say no to more zone with new stuff

Dungeons are still being worked on, we’re getting a new, I imagine permanent path for TA next week for example. Thats good new right? They have a crazy release schedule though and they release tons of stuff we cannot expect everything every update though right?

I agree totally. It’s the key reason why I bought the thing and it’s been the basis for the complaints that they did a bait and switch on their customers. Games change especially mmo’s but they don’t change THAT much especially not 2 months after release.

There’s a ton of features and aspects of the game that have simply just been thrown out the window entirely that they talked about at length mind you (not one person but multiple members of the dev team) over the year before the betas began that many of the naysayers in these forums simply ignore when those of us who remember these interviews and videos bring it up.

It was never just the manifesto.

The game is beautiful. For the most part some of the combat ideas are fun (but need major work), the classes are unique, the open world content (if treated properly) could blow the whole genre away, the leveling system works very well, but this tendency to not test properly and to have a tiny fraction of the people working on the class problems while a large group of people work on a tiny update to the open world content every two weeks is just terrible.

Gallrvaghn.4921:

Too tired to read the whole thread.

GW2 is still casual friendly.

Just play as if Ascended Gears never existed. Just play as if Legendary Weapons never existed.

Don’t forget to ignore broken skills, broken classes, misleading tooltips, horrendous writing, abominable voice acting, bugs, invisible walls, appendage removing armour, network errors and all those nasty things while you’re at it

Pariah.8506:

Gallrvaghn.4921:

Too tired to read the whole thread.

GW2 is still casual friendly.

Just play as if Ascended Gears never existed. Just play as if Legendary Weapons never existed.

Don’t forget to ignore broken skills, broken classes, misleading tooltips, horrendous writing, abominable voice acting, bugs, invisible walls, appendage removing armour, network errors and all those nasty things while you’re at it

and a broken forum search box

GW 2 was advertised as a fun, casual MMO.

Fun = Grinding for Legendaries or BiS weapons/items and soon BiS gears.
Casuals = Being told over and over again by the community you dont need any of the stats above. Cause they are grinding so casuals could owned them.

lolz just lolz

Jabronee.9465:

GW 2 was advertised as a fun, casual MMO.

Fun = Grinding for Legendaries or BiS weapons/items and soon BiS gears.
Casuals = Being told over and over again by the community you dont need any of the stats above. Cause they are grinding so casuals could owned them.

lolz just lolz

I have fun and I don’t do Legendary or BiS grinding. I find leveling up alts very fun, I find sPvP very fun, I find WvW very fun, I find most of the Activities very fun (I spit on Crab Toss), I find JPs very fun, I find dungeon paths and FoTM very fun.

Am I doing it wrong? How can I decrease my fun factor to a more appropriate level, more in-line with the forums’ viewpoints, because I feel I’m stuck having fun doing everything outside of grinding and according to the forums that simply cannot be. PLZ HELP MEH!

Draknar.5748:

How can I decrease my fun factor to a more appropriate level, more in-line with the forums’ viewpoints,

You can go play Anet’s previous game and realise what could have been.

Pariah.8506:

Draknar.5748:

How can I decrease my fun factor to a more appropriate level, more in-line with the forums’ viewpoints,

You can go play Anet’s previous game and realise what could have been.

Nope that doesnt work cause I did play Gw1 extensively but still feel like Draknar does exactly. It all boils down to priorities.

If you play Gw2 for the content you’re going to have tons of fun provided Gw2 is the game for you of course.

If you play Gw2 for the rewards rather then for the content then there is a good chance it will feel grindy and unfun.

Pariah.8506:

Draknar.5748:

How can I decrease my fun factor to a more appropriate level, more in-line with the forums’ viewpoints,

You can go play Anet’s previous game and realise what could have been.

I played Guild Wars 1 for five years. It was a great game. In many ways, it was a better game than Guild Wars 2.

And in many ways Guild Wars 2 is a better game than Guild Wars 1.

I know a lot of Guild Wars 1 players have these rose colored glasses, but you know, I felt like I was this ranger, exploring the wild, and I’d come up to a log look at it mournfully, knowing I couldn’t step over it and I had to turn around. Some ranger I was.

Guild Wars 1 was a great game…but it had its deficiencies too. Frankly, if I never sell anything in Spamadan again, it’ll be too soon.

Vayne.8563:

Pariah.8506:

Draknar.5748:

How can I decrease my fun factor to a more appropriate level, more in-line with the forums’ viewpoints,

You can go play Anet’s previous game and realise what could have been.

I played Guild Wars 1 for five years. It was a great game. In many ways, it was a better game than Guild Wars 2.

And in many ways Guild Wars 2 is a better game than Guild Wars 1.

I know a lot of Guild Wars 1 players have these rose colored glasses, but you know, I felt like I was this ranger, exploring the wild, and I’d come up to a log look at it mournfully, knowing I couldn’t step over it and I had to turn around. Some ranger I was.

Guild Wars 1 was a great game…but it had its deficiencies too. Frankly, if I never sell anything in Spamadan again, it’ll be too soon.

You could say GW1 was more.. grounded.

But in all seriousness yeah, the game is lacking in some points, simplistic movement being one of them.

As for trading I really though Anet would combine the best of both worlds, I met many people that would become my in game friends through trading, trading forced you to interact with other players, which was great. It made things personal and bolstered the community.
And at the same time the most basic items should have been kept for a Trading Post system to avoid the tedium of standing and shouting how you’re buying Iron fruitlessly for half an hour until the right person comes along.

The pity about GW2’s auction is that it ruined the economy making absolutely everything available through it and it alone. I seem to remember some economists even used GW2 as an example of the real world’s financial crisis pointing out how it would be cheaper to buy the end product than to buy the ingredients and manufacture the product yourself using your own skill.

It used to be, back around the beginning of the year. To me it started going downhill when they began messing with the original way dailies worked and has kept going from there. I’ve left and come back a couple times, but I always reach the same point. One day I log in and realize, I really have nothing I want to do, I am just doing daily grind for …. yeah no reason really. Then I pack it in for a while. Feeling that a bit right now.

Vayne.8563:

You’re right. You shouldn’t have to keep at at all…and you don’t have to keep up. There’s no reason to keep up. All the content can be done in rares, never mind exotics. The only exception is high level fractals which aren’t really casual content anyway.

MMOs need content for everyone. Saying a game is casual friendly doesn’t mean a casual should be able to do everything in the game.

As it is, a casual can still do most things in the game. There’s plenty of stuff to keep casual players busy.

What casual players shouldn’t be doing is stopping Anet from coming out with more challenging content for everyone else.

After all 90% plus of this game is casual.

Wow. I very rarely agree with Vayne. But I think Vayne is making a very, very good point here which goes to the very heart of this discussion.

What do you need ascended weapons for? Ask yourself this question, and answer it truthfully. Think about it.

You need it for very limited content that is not designed to be played by casuals. What people fail to acknowledge is that that’s ok. There can and should be content that is not designed to be bested by everyone. It’s healthy, and it gives everyone in the game something to strive for.

Let go of this concept that anyone should be able to achieve everything this game has to offer. Just let go, it’s OK.

Buttercup.5871:

Vayne.8563:

You’re right. You shouldn’t have to keep at at all…and you don’t have to keep up. There’s no reason to keep up. All the content can be done in rares, never mind exotics. The only exception is high level fractals which aren’t really casual content anyway.

MMOs need content for everyone. Saying a game is casual friendly doesn’t mean a casual should be able to do everything in the game.

As it is, a casual can still do most things in the game. There’s plenty of stuff to keep casual players busy.

What casual players shouldn’t be doing is stopping Anet from coming out with more challenging content for everyone else.

After all 90% plus of this game is casual.

Wow. I very rarely agree with Vayne. But I think Vayne is making a very, very good point here which goes to the very heart of this discussion.

What do you need ascended weapons for? Ask yourself this question, and answer it truthfully. Think about it.

You need it for very limited content that is not designed to be played by casuals. What people fail to acknowledge is that that’s ok. There can and should be content that is not designed to be bested by everyone. It’s healthy, and it gives everyone in the game something to strive for.

Let go of this concept that anyone should be able to achieve everything this game has to offer. Just let go, it’s OK.

If it isn’t necessary than there was no reason to waste resources implementing it. The game has far more serious matters pending attention than a new tier of geargrind. And Anet ended up investing time and money into something that was unnecessary and appalled a lot of players who were expecting – going on what Anet had been saying over and over – to have an easily attainable even equipment playing field with a grind that would concern cosmetic looks only.
They could have instead do oh so many things that urgently needed to be done since the beginning of the game but chose to do something that was not necessary, uncalled for and pure hypocrite in regard to their former statements.

Galen Grey.4709:

Pariah.8506:

Draknar.5748:

How can I decrease my fun factor to a more appropriate level, more in-line with the forums’ viewpoints,

You can go play Anet’s previous game and realise what could have been.

If you play Gw2 for the rewards rather then for the content then there is a good chance it will feel grindy and unfun.

Exactly. I played MMOs in the past for years that focused on rewards. How to get the best tier, then how to get the next best tier, then how to get the next next best tier, etc. etc. And it isn’t because I felt I wanted that gear, it was because I literally needed that gear in order to experience the new content.

There was no option: if you didn’t have X gear, lol see ya noob, what is that tier7 LOL what a loser! Oh uh, sorry for wasting everyone’s time, I’ve only been playing this game 7 years, don’t mind me I’ll just be in a fetal position here in this corner.

I’m so over that structure.

That’s why I don’t care about Ascended gear, like at all. The accessories/trinkets are super easy to acquire if you log on at least once a day for 20-30min and are part of a guild that can at minimum accomplish guild bounties. Do I need the weapon? For what? To say I have one? I’ve already finished all of the content without it, so what’s the point? The whole gear treadmill argument implies content requirements. No content in this game requires Ascended gear. None of it. (Upper FoTM isn’t different content, I think of it as a Challenge mode for content I’ve already completed umpteen times already)

Vayne.8563:

Pariah.8506:

Draknar.5748:

How can I decrease my fun factor to a more appropriate level, more in-line with the forums’ viewpoints,

You can go play Anet’s previous game and realise what could have been.

I played Guild Wars 1 for five years. It was a great game. In many ways, it was a better game than Guild Wars 2.

And in many ways Guild Wars 2 is a better game than Guild Wars 1.

I know a lot of Guild Wars 1 players have these rose colored glasses, but you know, I felt like I was this ranger, exploring the wild, and I’d come up to a log look at it mournfully, knowing I couldn’t step over it and I had to turn around. Some ranger I was.

I’m not sure what “rose colored glasses” and not being able to jump have to do with the game being “bad”. My friend was the same, he couldn’t get into Guild Wars simply because he wanted a game with more movement. Same reason he couldn’t get into Eve.

I’m not denying that it was a failure, though. As another GW1 friend of mine put it, the saddest thing about it is that its greatness did not last long. They made a horde of mistakes, starting with their first expansion.

Buttercup.5871:

Vayne.8563:

You’re right. You shouldn’t have to keep at at all…and you don’t have to keep up. There’s no reason to keep up. All the content can be done in rares, never mind exotics. The only exception is high level fractals which aren’t really casual content anyway.

MMOs need content for everyone. Saying a game is casual friendly doesn’t mean a casual should be able to do everything in the game.

As it is, a casual can still do most things in the game. There’s plenty of stuff to keep casual players busy.

What casual players shouldn’t be doing is stopping Anet from coming out with more challenging content for everyone else.

After all 90% plus of this game is casual.

Wow. I very rarely agree with Vayne. But I think Vayne is making a very, very good point here which goes to the very heart of this discussion.

What do you need ascended weapons for? Ask yourself this question, and answer it truthfully. Think about it.

You need it for very limited content that is not designed to be played by casuals. What people fail to acknowledge is that that’s ok. There can and should be content that is not designed to be bested by everyone. It’s healthy, and it gives everyone in the game something to strive for.

Let go of this concept that anyone should be able to achieve everything this game has to offer. Just let go, it’s OK.

Dunno if I’d consider Ascended weapons as “hardcore” content. It might take awhile to get one but that’s it. I’d actually consider it the opposite of hardcore, honestly.

kbenton.4915:

If you think a random casual that plays this game for 2 hours a week can still have fun and remain in the swing of things through these changes, you are wrong. (I’m not even in this category, I play about 12 hours a week, but a few of my RL gw buddies are.) They simply can’t keep up.

But your RL gw buddies have, like, 98% of the game if they want easily doable content. What’s wrong in having a few dungeon routes, a few dynamic events, and 1 world boss you cannot kill without playing as a team with other people? If they made this content easy, what challenge would the people that want one have?

Galen Grey.4709:

Pariah.8506:

Draknar.5748:

How can I decrease my fun factor to a more appropriate level, more in-line with the forums’ viewpoints,

You can go play Anet’s previous game and realise what could have been.

Nope that doesnt work cause I did play Gw1 extensively but still feel like Draknar does exactly. It all boils down to priorities.

If you play Gw2 for the content you’re going to have tons of fun provided Gw2 is the game for you of course.

If you play Gw2 for the rewards rather then for the content then there is a good chance it will feel grindy and unfun.

I’ve played thru the content of this game. It gets to the point where that’s the only thing you login for anymore after you’ve experienced it all is for dailies or achievement completion.

If you like endless repetition fine, but don’t pretend people don’t login for horizontal progression we were promised, and don’t pretend that the game has become a grind and most especially don’t pretend that people don’t need ascended because that’s just dishonest. You know they are revamping all of the bosses and dungeons, you know they are planning on making things harder (yet another nail in the coffin of proof that this game is becoming less and less ‘casual friendly’ [because it’s not casual now sorry that’s the truth of the matter] and please please don’t pretend that their apology that was hidden in an interview that was unrelated to the whole ordeal of producing a game that turned out to be exactly opposite of what they advertised was enough to fix the problems and concerns actual casual players face in this title today).

It’s really that simple. The misdirection that people aren’t having fun isn’t the problem the problem is it’s not as advertised that’s the issue at hand and no amount of sunshine magical rainbows speech about the game is going to eliminate that fact from the table. You can certainly try tho.

Aenesthesia.1697:

kbenton.4915:

If you think a random casual that plays this game for 2 hours a week can still have fun and remain in the swing of things through these changes, you are wrong. (I’m not even in this category, I play about 12 hours a week, but a few of my RL gw buddies are.) They simply can’t keep up.

But your RL gw buddies have, like, 98% of the game if they want easily doable content. What’s wrong in having a few dungeon routes, a few dynamic events, and 1 world boss you cannot kill without playing as a team with other people? If they made this content easy, what challenge would the people that want one have?

Nothing is wrong with it so long as they provided what they promised. This was advertised as a casual game, it’s anything but and it’s getting worse not better. That’s the problem. Gear was never supposed to be a concern, dungeons were never supposed to be a concern, bosses that require 80 people to down were never supposed to be what the open world was about, grinding for loot that almost never drops shouldn’t be a problem, and even their own trinity doesn’t exist. Tell me how this game doesn’t have major issues again please.

Is this a serious thread? Gw2 is BY FAR the most casual MMO on the market. How much more casual do you want it? o.O

Buttercup.5871:

Vayne.8563:

You’re right. You shouldn’t have to keep at at all…and you don’t have to keep up. There’s no reason to keep up. All the content can be done in rares, never mind exotics. The only exception is high level fractals which aren’t really casual content anyway.

MMOs need content for everyone. Saying a game is casual friendly doesn’t mean a casual should be able to do everything in the game.

As it is, a casual can still do most things in the game. There’s plenty of stuff to keep casual players busy.

What casual players shouldn’t be doing is stopping Anet from coming out with more challenging content for everyone else.

After all 90% plus of this game is casual.

Wow. I very rarely agree with Vayne. But I think Vayne is making a very, very good point here which goes to the very heart of this discussion.

What do you need ascended weapons for? Ask yourself this question, and answer it truthfully. Think about it.

You need it for very limited content that is not designed to be played by casuals. What people fail to acknowledge is that that’s ok. There can and should be content that is not designed to be bested by everyone. It’s healthy, and it gives everyone in the game something to strive for.

Let go of this concept that anyone should be able to achieve everything this game has to offer. Just let go, it’s OK.

I see the same arguments in favor of raiders having the best gear in games that have raids. If new gear is only needed in certain content, why is it better in all content? Why doesn’t raid gear have the same “normal” stats, and just add a new stat that allows tanks to withstand raid damage, healers to heal raid damage and dps to hurt raid mobs? If Descended gear is for FotM, why does it have better stats, not just an infusion slot?

The answer? Because the game is pandering to the want to have the best numbers. The elite content in GW2 was supposed to be about better team coordination and better skill. And guess what? It is. Thus, better stats were not needed by players playing elite content. Pretending this is about elite content being out of the reach of casuals is inaccurate.

Answer this question, while you’re at it. Why do so many players who complain about lack of difficulty reject the suggestion that they just kitten their character?

When Gw2 launched is was literally on the bottom of the casual to hardcore scale. You cant go farther down then rock bottom :p

You can only go up.

IndigoSundown.5419:

Answer this question, while you’re at it. Why do so many players who complain about lack of difficulty reject the suggestion that they just kitten their character?

It’s a mental thing. A lot of people only feel ‘good’ about their character when they can generate those huge numbers. They don’t feel like they are getting any better unless they have the ever climbing stats. “Oh look at me, I’m awesome, I do so much damage I can just faceroll through the game. No skill required”

shrug We could go into the whole human psychology thing… and I started to, but opted to delete it. It’s just too long and boring to be honest. Chalk it up to its a mental drawback of the human ego, the inability to outgrow the need be “the big bad.” Some might say it’s a form of compensation….

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

IndigoSundown.5419:

Answer this question, while you’re at it. Why do so many players who complain about lack of difficulty reject the suggestion that they just kitten their character?

It’s a mental thing. A lot of people only feel ‘good’ about their character when they can generate those huge numbers. They don’t feel like they are getting any better unless they have the ever climbing stats. “Oh look at me, I’m awesome, I do so much damage I can just faceroll through the game. No skill required”

shrug We could go into the whole human psychology thing… and I started to, but opted to delete it. It’s just too long and boring to be honest. Chalk it up to its a mental drawback of the human ego, the inability to outgrow the need be “the big bad.” Some might say it’s a form of compensation….

WoW has increasing numbers to everything over the course of its expansions to give players a faux sense of progression, that their grind is paying off.
GW2 is releasing (and is going to release even more) ‘higher numbers’ gear to give people a faux sense of progression – the one that levelling failed to offer.

Notice the similarity? This is it, it is the future of Guild Wars 2, today. Witness it and bask in its infinity.

Pariah.8506:

GW2 is releasing (and is going to release even more) ‘higher numbers’ gear to give people a faux sense of progression – the one that levelling failed to offer.

I disagree with this assessment. However, having read your other posts I’m not going to bother arguing with you as it would be a waste of my time. I will simply leave it at your opinion and mine differ greatly.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Pariah.8506:

GW2 is releasing (and is going to release even more) ‘higher numbers’ gear to give people a faux sense of progression – the one that levelling failed to offer.

I disagree with this assessment. However, having read your other posts I’m not going to bother arguing with you as it would be a waste of my time. I will simply leave it at your opinion and mine differ greatly.

Let’s strike a deal: You give me your reasons for disagreeing because I am genuinely curious about other people’s point of view and in turn I promise I won’t spin this out into a long discussion. I promise not to reply to your explanation and just leave it as is.

Pariah.8506:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Pariah.8506:

GW2 is releasing (and is going to release even more) ‘higher numbers’ gear to give people a faux sense of progression – the one that levelling failed to offer.

I disagree with this assessment. However, having read your other posts I’m not going to bother arguing with you as it would be a waste of my time. I will simply leave it at your opinion and mine differ greatly.

Let’s strike a deal: You give me your reasons for disagreeing because I am genuinely curious about other people’s point of view and in turn I promise I won’t spin this out into a long discussion. I promise not to reply to your explanation and just leave it as is.

I don’t mind having a discussion, if you can have one rationally, which was my concern from your other posts.

Its obvious that you’re jaded. You’re hurt, feeling betrayed, and lied to, by Anet; resulting in lashing out on the forums. You can’t ‘directly’ vent your displeasure to the company, so you do it here. Which only results in insult to injury because 1) not as many people here necessarily agree with you as you’d hoped, and/or 2) inside you know its not likely anything you say on here will be read or listened to by anyone of importance.

Thus, feeling like I’d simply be wasting my time. Generally speaking, whether you’re curious about others points or not, when we’re emotionally upset (and it’s obvious you are at least a little by the tone of your posts) it doesn’t matter what someone else says. Be it logical or rational, unless it’s what we want to hear, we are neither going to accept or be happy about it.

I do understand being upset about paying for something, only to have it turn out to not be what you really wanted. Or to have it change from something you thought you liked, into something you weren’t so pleased with. It sucks, I get that.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

IndigoSundown.5419:

Answer this question, while you’re at it. Why do so many players who complain about lack of difficulty reject the suggestion that they just kitten their character?

It’s a mental thing. A lot of people only feel ‘good’ about their character when they can generate those huge numbers. They don’t feel like they are getting any better unless they have the ever climbing stats. “Oh look at me, I’m awesome, I do so much damage I can just faceroll through the game. No skill required”

shrug We could go into the whole human psychology thing… and I started to, but opted to delete it. It’s just too long and boring to be honest. Chalk it up to its a mental drawback of the human ego, the inability to outgrow the need be “the big bad.” Some might say it’s a form of compensation….

That’s certainly part of the answer to the question about why some people want BiS gear. There’s more to it, and any generalization is going to miss some of what’s going on.

As to the question you actually quoted, the answer is because mastering a challenge is an affirmation of skill. A “victory” that is based around the idea, “It would have been easy if I wore my gear.” is much less satisfying. Getting to the point where numbers aren’t holding you back is the starting point.

That’s why so many people get jazzed in their first raid — because they’re past the “gearing” up phase and into the purported challenge. It’ also why some raiders drop out once a raid is on farm and they see that the system is predicated on short spurts where you master new content followed by lengthy drags in which you get to the numbers needed to “progress.”

Those who want challenge and who made the effort starting at launch to get their characters BiS gear were looking forward to playing hard content to challenge themselves. Instead of getting spurts of challenge, they got “Repeat the same stuff you did to gear up before to gear yourself back up to BiS. Oh, by the way, you have all 8 classes at 80 that were in BiS? Expect this process to take exponentially longer.”

I stopped playing this game in February (started at 10-15 hours a week) (my wife had a baby) and am just starting to squeak in 2-4 hours a week again now.

I have a level 80 guardian with rare armor (bought this with gold I got off the gem store, bought a faction set for 15g and skinned over it with karma equipment (dark set) and i’m currently working on exotic karma equipment), exotic weapons (skinned over mystic forge upgrades with karma weapons), and masterwork accessories.

I find WvW is great, jumped back in no problem. If I had an hour, the new laurel system seems awesome. I haven’t tried a dungeon but I was enjoying doing those bit by bit before I left (had to book off a whole afternoon so they are very rare for me!) It was a big deal for me to do 1 of each on story mode. I need to kill the dragon in orr still, haven’t done the two up north, did the fractals one on level 1, that was fun.

I am a little worried because I don’t want to see someone with a 50% stat bonus on me in WvW if they start introducing tier after tier, but the little 5% bump from ascended (that just by looking at costs I was easily able to know I’d never achieve and it wasn’t for me) doesn’t bother me too much.

Tried the new Tequatil in an overflow pug, killed the old one back in the day, but this new one was timed and had 90% health left… That was fun, so I don’t get wings on my back, big deal.

Used to do spvp quite a bit, happy it hasn’t changed much, but it was more fun for testing builds while I was leveling than an actual every day thing.

Overall? I don’t see the problem. I played WoW for years and never saw the problem, but years in WoW terms is nothing (I left before the first expansion) and its my understanding they just kept releasing more and more stuff to grind for. I remember playing with a friend who had tons of time and would grind for weeks just to get a unique looking mount. I think ArenaNet has a very hard job on their hands with some people playing 80 hours a week and demanding more to do, and some playing 2 hours a week. Both bring in money (the 2 hour guy spends cash to compensate a little, the 80 hour guy is bound to want to spend cash on something). They’ve compensated a little by tiering things, and making different looking items something to go for, but are you really surprised they had to add something like this to work towards?

I’ve been busy up until now trying to find a good stat-combination of items and build. I bet you the guy who is online 80 hours a week has a much bigger advantage in that department than he does from items. Although I think I figured it out this time

Anyway, that’s my rant.

I should add, the greatest thing about this game is that it was free FROM THE START. I don’t have to feel like the game “died” then was labeled “free” out of desperation. I come back in, there are people around, the game is still enjoyable, its GREAT.

rjnemer.7816:

When Gw2 launched is was literally on the bottom of the casual to hardcore scale. You cant go farther down then rock bottom :p

You can only go up.

You missed a few MMOs… It wasn’t at the bottom, trust me.

Allowing players to re-use content like they do with the dungeon paths/etc. and laurel system/etc. is GENIUS. This game has a huge variety of “viable” content at end-game. I remember when I got to the end of SWTOR and the ‘pvp’ was a broken area with 1 person (me) in it, and there was no dungeons or equipment to work towards. All the “planets” were low level (ie: completely useless)… There is a reason why this game succeeded where others have failed.

IndigoSundown.5419

That’s certainly part of the answer to the question about why some people want BiS gear. There’s more to it, and any generalization is going to miss some of what’s going on.

As to the question you actually quoted, the answer is because mastering a challenge is an affirmation of skill. A “victory” that is based around the idea, “It would have been easy if I wore my gear.” is much less satisfying. Getting to the point where numbers aren’t holding you back is the starting point.

That’s why so many people get jazzed in their first raid — because they’re past the “gearing” up phase and into the purported challenge. It’ also why some raiders drop out once a raid is on farm and they see that the system is predicated on short spurts where you master new content followed by lengthy drags in which you get to the numbers needed to “progress.”

I would argue that a good chunk of it is mental though…. Based on human nature, and conditioning. However, you have a point that any generalization cannot hold true for all cases. It’s simply not possible.

Those who want challenge and who made the effort starting at launch to get their characters BiS gear were looking forward to playing hard content to challenge themselves. Instead of getting spurts of challenge, they got “Repeat the same stuff you did to gear up before to gear yourself back up to BiS. Oh, by the way, you have all 8 classes at 80 that were in BiS? Expect this process to take exponentially longer.”

I won’t disagree that for those that were already geared before Ascended, the additional tier is a pain in the kitten. It sucks. I get to do it myself. But the fact remains that it is wholly unnecessary unless you’re specifically doing the highest levels of fractals, and people have been doing those in exotics up till now anyway, so what’s changed? Our perspective. We are presented with a new tier of gear, which is in itself a challenge to achieve (unless you happen to already have most everything, which it seems more than a few did), but it not necessary for the player to go out and experience the challenges you speak of. You have the availability and the opportunity to do both. One of the biggest bones of contention (beyond just the whole new tier thing) is the ‘feeling’ that we now need to have this gear, when factually we simply don’t unless we want to. _That is a mental issue.

I think I went off on a tangent there… sorry for the temporary insanity. I’m not even sure I addressed the original point. I need to go find myself some cafffine haha

Buttercup.5871:

Vayne.8563:

You’re right. You shouldn’t have to keep at at all…and you don’t have to keep up. There’s no reason to keep up. All the content can be done in rares, never mind exotics. The only exception is high level fractals which aren’t really casual content anyway.

MMOs need content for everyone. Saying a game is casual friendly doesn’t mean a casual should be able to do everything in the game.

As it is, a casual can still do most things in the game. There’s plenty of stuff to keep casual players busy.

What casual players shouldn’t be doing is stopping Anet from coming out with more challenging content for everyone else.

After all 90% plus of this game is casual.

Wow. I very rarely agree with Vayne. But I think Vayne is making a very, very good point here which goes to the very heart of this discussion.

What do you need ascended weapons for? Ask yourself this question, and answer it truthfully. Think about it.

You need it for very limited content that is not designed to be played by casuals. What people fail to acknowledge is that that’s ok. There can and should be content that is not designed to be bested by everyone. It’s healthy, and it gives everyone in the game something to strive for.

Let go of this concept that anyone should be able to achieve everything this game has to offer. Just let go, it’s OK.

Uh, to be able to compete in WvW?

The “casual” PvP mode.

(And if you say you can do just fine without it, then you my friend know little of WvW).

Thrumdi.9216:

Buttercup.5871:

Vayne.8563:

You’re right. You shouldn’t have to keep at at all…and you don’t have to keep up. There’s no reason to keep up. All the content can be done in rares, never mind exotics. The only exception is high level fractals which aren’t really casual content anyway.

MMOs need content for everyone. Saying a game is casual friendly doesn’t mean a casual should be able to do everything in the game.

As it is, a casual can still do most things in the game. There’s plenty of stuff to keep casual players busy.

What casual players shouldn’t be doing is stopping Anet from coming out with more challenging content for everyone else.

After all 90% plus of this game is casual.

Wow. I very rarely agree with Vayne. But I think Vayne is making a very, very good point here which goes to the very heart of this discussion.

What do you need ascended weapons for? Ask yourself this question, and answer it truthfully. Think about it.

You need it for very limited content that is not designed to be played by casuals. What people fail to acknowledge is that that’s ok. There can and should be content that is not designed to be bested by everyone. It’s healthy, and it gives everyone in the game something to strive for.

Let go of this concept that anyone should be able to achieve everything this game has to offer. Just let go, it’s OK.

Uh, to be able to compete in WvW?

The “casual” PvP mode.

(And if you say you can do just fine without it, then you my friend know little of WvW).

WvW is supposed to be unblanced. 90% of the time you are running in giant zergs where having ascended weapons really does not make a difference at all.

If you run around by yourself/small groups of 5 well then going play tPvP if you want everyone to be on the same footing.

OR

You can just go craft some ascended weapons. No one is stopping you ^^

Thrumdi.9216:

Buttercup.5871:

Vayne.8563:

You’re right. You shouldn’t have to keep at at all…and you don’t have to keep up. There’s no reason to keep up. All the content can be done in rares, never mind exotics. The only exception is high level fractals which aren’t really casual content anyway.

MMOs need content for everyone. Saying a game is casual friendly doesn’t mean a casual should be able to do everything in the game.

As it is, a casual can still do most things in the game. There’s plenty of stuff to keep casual players busy.

What casual players shouldn’t be doing is stopping Anet from coming out with more challenging content for everyone else.

After all 90% plus of this game is casual.

Wow. I very rarely agree with Vayne. But I think Vayne is making a very, very good point here which goes to the very heart of this discussion.

What do you need ascended weapons for? Ask yourself this question, and answer it truthfully. Think about it.

You need it for very limited content that is not designed to be played by casuals. What people fail to acknowledge is that that’s ok. There can and should be content that is not designed to be bested by everyone. It’s healthy, and it gives everyone in the game something to strive for.

Let go of this concept that anyone should be able to achieve everything this game has to offer. Just let go, it’s OK.

Uh, to be able to compete in WvW?

The “casual” PvP mode.

(And if you say you can do just fine without it, then you my friend know little of WvW).

Know WvWvW very well. I know that ascended gear is not needed to compete at all. Considering that everyone one of my character entered into WvWvW as soon as level 2, and always contributing in a meaningful way despite not having all skills and being in low level gear. All of WvWvW is imbalanced, and adding more more thing in the list of many things that imbalance WvWvW is not going to matter. Complaining about Ascened gear? Why not complain about all the people not even close to level 80, wearing FINE gear, those people are technically at a disadvantage more than anyone wearing Exotic gear. WvWvW by its very nature is imbalanced, it is all about all out war not 1vs1.

So yeah, ascended gear is not needed to compete, not even close.

eisberg.2379:

Thrumdi.9216:

Buttercup.5871:

Vayne.8563:

You’re right. You shouldn’t have to keep at at all…and you don’t have to keep up. There’s no reason to keep up. All the content can be done in rares, never mind exotics. The only exception is high level fractals which aren’t really casual content anyway.

MMOs need content for everyone. Saying a game is casual friendly doesn’t mean a casual should be able to do everything in the game.

As it is, a casual can still do most things in the game. There’s plenty of stuff to keep casual players busy.

What casual players shouldn’t be doing is stopping Anet from coming out with more challenging content for everyone else.

After all 90% plus of this game is casual.

Wow. I very rarely agree with Vayne. But I think Vayne is making a very, very good point here which goes to the very heart of this discussion.

What do you need ascended weapons for? Ask yourself this question, and answer it truthfully. Think about it.

You need it for very limited content that is not designed to be played by casuals. What people fail to acknowledge is that that’s ok. There can and should be content that is not designed to be bested by everyone. It’s healthy, and it gives everyone in the game something to strive for.

Let go of this concept that anyone should be able to achieve everything this game has to offer. Just let go, it’s OK.

Uh, to be able to compete in WvW?

The “casual” PvP mode.

(And if you say you can do just fine without it, then you my friend know little of WvW).

Know WvWvW very well. I know that ascended gear is not needed to compete at all. Considering that everyone one of my character entered into WvWvW as soon as level 2, and always contributing in a meaningful way despite not having all skills and being in low level gear. All of WvWvW is imbalanced, and adding more more thing in the list of many things that imbalance WvWvW is not going to matter. Complaining about Ascened gear? Why not complain about all the people not even close to level 80, wearing FINE gear, those people are technically at a disadvantage more than anyone wearing Exotic gear. WvWvW by its very nature is imbalanced, it is all about all out war not 1vs1.

So yeah, ascended gear is not needed to compete, not even close.

I agree 100%. I compete just fine in WvW. Can I take on someone who has a blue commander tag 1vs1? No. But I can hold my own, I don’t get 1 hit killed, I contribute, I have fun. If I’m tagging along with a group, they’re better because I’m there.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

IndigoSundown.5419:

Answer this question, while you’re at it. Why do so many players who complain about lack of difficulty reject the suggestion that they just kitten their character?

It’s a mental thing. A lot of people only feel ‘good’ about their character when they can generate those huge numbers. They don’t feel like they are getting any better unless they have the ever climbing stats. “Oh look at me, I’m awesome, I do so much damage I can just faceroll through the game. No skill required”

shrug We could go into the whole human psychology thing… and I started to, but opted to delete it. It’s just too long and boring to be honest. Chalk it up to its a mental drawback of the human ego, the inability to outgrow the need be “the big bad.” Some might say it’s a form of compensation….

I think this is exactly right. And I have no problem admitting that this is one of the things that draw me to games. I want to be “the big bad” but in real life, not so much.
Real life is real life. Part of the appeal of these games is that it’s not real life.

For some people, the journey to become the hero is what they want. They like the feeling of getting one step closer to the goal. For other people, they just want to be the big bad.

This is actually the source of almost everything I don’t like about the game. RNG isn’t suppose to be random. Like James Bond, I’m suppose to draw the inside straight! Rare isn’t suppose to mean rare. I mean, I’m the hero, the big bad, I’m suppose to find the rare item! That’s what heroes do. Rare should be commonplace!

If you just want to be the big bad, then another tier of gear is terrible. If you like the journey it’s great.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

I would argue that a good chunk of it is mental though…. Based on human nature, and conditioning.

Oh, yes, it’s all mental. I’m not trying to say it isn’t. I’m hoping that if people understand the thought process better, they might think before they post arguments that don’t really address the person’s complaint. A forlorn hope, I know, but if one person gets it, it will have been worth the effort.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

I won’t disagree that for those that were already geared before Ascended, the additional tier is a pain in the kitten. It sucks. I get to do it myself. But the fact remains that it is wholly unnecessary unless you’re specifically doing the highest levels of fractals, and people have been doing those in exotics up till now anyway, so what’s changed? Our perspective. We are presented with a new tier of gear, which is in itself a challenge to achieve (unless you happen to already have most everything, which it seems more than a few did), but it not necessary for the player to go out and experience the challenges you speak of. You have the availability and the opportunity to do both. One of the biggest bones of contention (beyond just the whole new tier thing) is the ‘feeling’ that we now need to have this gear, when factually we simply don’t unless we want to. _That is a mental issue.

I think I went off on a tangent there… sorry for the temporary insanity. I’m not even sure I addressed the original point. I need to go find myself some caffeine haha

Not to worry, tangential discussions are always part of forum discourse.

Is re-gearing into BiS really a challenge? Or is it just a time sink? I’d say that it’s the latter. If you look at all the complaints last year that resulted in the new tier, and at the way it is being implemented, it’s pretty clear.

Whatever anyone might say about Ascended, it was a radical shift in direction for the game, simply because there was no indication it was coming. Any radical change in game direction is going to disappoint someone, and the disappointed are often the most bitter. Bitterness lingers a long time. That’s a mental thing, too.

There’s nothing fun or casual about the mystic toilet.

But I make so much money there, mindlessly.

Galen Grey.4709:

Sentry.3691:

…

The reason why its not a problem that is not balanced is because WvW isnt one on one PvP its as the name itself implies WvW… if a player dies in combat (at least prior to the blood lust thing) it had 0 impact on win/loose.

Besides no matter what Arenanet do WvW can never be balanced because there is no way to balance stuff on a huge map with 500vs500vs500 battles.

Everyone is split up so if you’re 50 people assaulting a keep with 20 people and a zerg of 150 people from the other server shows up how can such a battle ever be balanced? Same with Siege weapons, an arrow cart does order of magnitude more damage then most classes could ever hope for and it does that at a greater distance and affects more players then player skills do. But all of that is okey because ultimately its not about individual fights its about a big picture. So going back to my 50vs20vs150 keep scenario in all likeliness the 150 strong server will destroy the 50 or so weakened invader and then overcome whats remaining of the 20 or so defense force… thats not a problem because 20 or so defense force has another 480 players elsewhere taking other objectives. If they’re wise they’ll use their superior numbers to strike at the server that just took a keep from them while they’re defense force is more fractured.

Simple speaking WvW is not about 1vs1, its a big long term strategic war between servers.

Thank you for that patronizing reply. I play on Anvil Rock. I understand imbalance just fine, thank you. And I have remained loyal to my server.

Fact: Wvw is poorly balanced. Fact: Wvw could be more balanced. The problem is that Anet appears to have given up on making it so. This new ascended gear along with a number of recent additions (perplexity runes) have made wvw players very frustrated.

At its root, again, the problem is that people simply WILL NOT play a competitive game, long-term, if the game designers refuse to fix blatant imbalances. An increasingly imbalanced pvp game is not fun or rewarding. If your contributions in wvw are increasingly negated by intrusive and frustrating game mechanics, why would you bother to play?

I, for one, know that my server, Anvil Rock, has little or no chance of winning from week to week since we sank to the bottom of the wvw rankings. As such, the fights are the only thing keeping me going. Now, with ascended gear, kitten -poor class balance, the bloodlust buff, and badly designed WXP upgrades, wvw is becoming a joke. Skill matters less and less. When skill is not rewarded, pvp players leave.

It is true that wvw will never be completely balanced due to the fact that it is linked to pve-land. The problem is that every recent update to the game has exacerbated the imbalance, and upcoming updates appear to be even worse offenders. It is an unpleasant trend. If it continues, wvw will be a ghost town within a few months.

All of WvWvW is imbalanced, and adding more more thing in the list of many things that imbalance WvWvW is not going to matter.

facepalm You know what? You’re right. Wvw is all about zerging in a giant karma train and mindlessly following a blue dorito around, right? Why do I even bother…

It’s casual cause I took a 5 month break, got back into the game. Took me 5mins to remember how to press the 10 or so buttons to play. Got my dailies done in 10 or so mins, my monthly done in 5 days, ran a fractal with my buddy and got a ascended ring. Went to WvW and noticed I can buy more gear there with just badges.

If it were WoW or other games it would be. I took a 5 month break and logged back in and implode.

sPvP and tPvP were always supposed to be an esport. It is casual in the sense that you can login and play immediately at the same level of the other PvPers. You don’t have to grind hours a day to get the best PvP gear and then do it over again when they add a new set, just like in PvE.

Ascended gear has been added so slowly and has so many ways to get it that it shouldn’t really be that hard to get if you try. If you don’t try, then no, you won’t get ascended very easily. But if you play 4 hours a week you can’t expect to get much done no matter how casual it is.

This game is and has always been extremely casual. Tequatl is pretty casual too once everyone knows what to do, all it takes is a big coordinated group. Don’t judge it on how it is now when everyone and their mother is trying to do it. Judge it in a few months when there are groups with set schedules who have no trouble doing it with 80~ players.

This game is super casual. It takes a year+ to increase gear one tier, and far less than that to acquire it. Compare to WoW where you always have inferior gear unless you grind week in week out.

All I do is run 1 fractal a day and do the daily. I feel no pressure to grind, no pressure to do the Living Story, no pressure to do anything except what I want to do. I could not log in for a month and no big deal, I won’t be behind at all.

1. If you treat Guild Wars 2 like a game then it will be fun……..

2.If you treat Guild Wars 2 like your second job or life it won’t be fun.

3. If you treat Guild Wars 2 like an MMORPG and actually role play in it , then it will also be fun.

4.If you treat Guild Wars 2 like a grindfest and you grind champs all day it won’t be fun.

5.If you treat Guild Wars 2 as game where you think you have to keep up with everyone else it will not be fun.

6.If you grind in Guild Wars 2 …… well that’s just stupid. You grind because you think you have to grind so you will get stronger….. FYI lvl 80 and full exotic is easy to get and it is suitable for everything other than Fotm.

7. The majority of the population do not do Dynamic Events anymore…..

Hahahaha same arguments with the same problems a year later hahaha. If you want to have a decent progression path….play better games. I’ve been doing it the past year and haven’t really looked back at all. Checked in because saw a bunch of the 1 year since release video’s. Looks like they’ve expanded on the poor design that was contrary to what they said they were building the game as and haven’t really made the game fun to play.

Pariah.8506:

Buttercup.5871:

Vayne.8563:

You’re right. You shouldn’t have to keep at at all…and you don’t have to keep up. There’s no reason to keep up. All the content can be done in rares, never mind exotics. The only exception is high level fractals which aren’t really casual content anyway.

MMOs need content for everyone. Saying a game is casual friendly doesn’t mean a casual should be able to do everything in the game.

As it is, a casual can still do most things in the game. There’s plenty of stuff to keep casual players busy.

What casual players shouldn’t be doing is stopping Anet from coming out with more challenging content for everyone else.

After all 90% plus of this game is casual.

Wow. I very rarely agree with Vayne. But I think Vayne is making a very, very good point here which goes to the very heart of this discussion.

What do you need ascended weapons for? Ask yourself this question, and answer it truthfully. Think about it.

You need it for very limited content that is not designed to be played by casuals. What people fail to acknowledge is that that’s ok. There can and should be content that is not designed to be bested by everyone. It’s healthy, and it gives everyone in the game something to strive for.

Let go of this concept that anyone should be able to achieve everything this game has to offer. Just let go, it’s OK.

If it isn’t necessary than there was no reason to waste resources implementing it. The game has far more serious matters pending attention than a new tier of geargrind. And Anet ended up investing time and money into something that was unnecessary and appalled a lot of players who were expecting – going on what Anet had been saying over and over – to have an easily attainable even equipment playing field with a grind that would concern cosmetic looks only.
They could have instead do oh so many things that urgently needed to be done since the beginning of the game but chose to do something that was not necessary, uncalled for and pure hypocrite in regard to their former statements.

s/he is not saying that its not necessary, they’re saying its designed for people who want VP, for people who dont care about cosmetics but thing a reward is only a reward if it makes you character more powerful. It is necessary because for some people thats the only thing that matters.

Some people like PvP and just hate PvE. In many MMOs, nearly all of them you need to do PvE if you want to play PvP but not here. As such its safe to say in Gw2 PvE is not necessary if you want to do PvP. Does that mean that because PvE is not necessary for PvP they shouldnt have implemented it? On the other hand does it mean that even though PvE is not ncessary to do PvP every PvPer has to do PvE just cause it is there? Its the same thing with Ascended stuff. If you want it get it but if you hate it just skip it. Its there for those who want it, its not necessary for those who dont.

McSlappy.1372:

Hahahaha same arguments with the same problems a year later hahaha. If you want to have a decent progression path….play better games. I’ve been doing it the past year and haven’t really looked back at all. Checked in because saw a bunch of the 1 year since release video’s. Looks like they’ve expanded on the poor design that was contrary to what they said they were building the game as and haven’t really made the game fun to play.

I find it fun. Your opinion is your opinion.

WoW crybabies got what they wanted – a gear treadmill.
In this thread https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Is-the-Majority-GW-playebase-Hipsters/first#post2916302 they claim that they do not want another generic MMO, yet they are trying to make it WoW 2.0.