Guild Wars 2

Hey,

What you do think of GW2 monsters compare to GW1 ?
Personally, I miss GW1 monsters, they were a lot more interesting because they had all player skills (including elite!!):
Hydra with meteor (shower)
Moss scarab with vampiric touch
Wind Rider wih degen and interrupt (killed me so many times)
And mixed group of monsters with deadly combination of interrupt, damage, hexes, …

There were many areas where I was cautious to walk because I feared those monsters (crystal desert with mercenaries, not heroes). I could be stressed when 2 more hydras joined an already very difficult fights.

Now, what’s about GW2 monsters? Seriously, most of them are a joke. Some might have some skills, they are still doing pathetic damage or effect compared to what player can do to them. I think it is one of the main reason open world is so easy and not so interesting. Monsters are not impressive.
Except champions, but they are boring because all they do is massive damage with massive health. It was more fun and challenging to fight huge mixed groups in GW1
(like the ones in DoA).

Plus, it is so easy to disengage from combat in GW2. I can run accross most areas, aggroing all monsters in the way, and still survive. Try doing that in GW1 ! (even a run like droknar requires lot of pratice).
Why was it difficult? Because monsters had skills: they slow you down, stun, knockback, and some of them do high damage.

Here, you just dodge from time to time and run like if nobody coukd kill you, and most of the time, nobody will.

Well, this is one of the reason I got bored with GW2. “you want challenge? play dungeon or fractal !”. But it doesn’t change anything, monsters do more damage, have more health, they still don’t do anything special.
Numbers is a compensation, you will usually fight multiple opponents but as most professions have area of effect damage and survival skills, you are far from gw1 difficulty.
And if you play in group (after all, it is a mmo), it becomes a race at who will land a hit before that monster falls. Because yes, things die so fast it isn’t even funny.

While talking about ’’monsters’’ I think this enemy is the most weird one…

It’s those bandits running around with kegs, suicide bombing, yet, they don’t die themselves, or taking any damage at all.

I mean, what the hell? Running around with an explosive keg, put it down, fuse it, and not take damage yourself?! That enemy makes no sense!

(I know there are many weird enemies that doesn’t make sense but this one is beyond my imagination!)

I prefered the enemies in GW1 that had nearly full skill bars, and fought in “packs”, but that was because GW1 it was more like a team v team encounter everytime, rather than actually feel like solo play.

That was much more engaging for me than simply swinging my sword, then swinging my sword again….hate to say, I actually think you can compare the blandness of enemies to games like early-game WoW and Aion

For instance, in the dredge fractal, when you are fighting the insane aoe veteran bombers, why does the aoe affect the party and not the enemy? Thay just threw a bomb…if they are standing in it when it goes off it should affect them too right?

Farzo.8410:

While talking about ’’monsters’’ I think this enemy is the most weird one…

It’s those bandits running around with kegs, suicide bombing, yet, they don’t die themselves, or taking any damage at all.

I mean, what the hell? Running around with an explosive keg, put it down, fuse it, and not take damage yourself?! That enemy makes no sense!

(I know there are many weird enemies that doesn’t make sense but this one is beyond my imagination!)

This is very like a player ability. Engineers with Bomb Kit do the same thing these mobs are doing, except the Engi’s do more damage but no knock.

Zietlogik.6208:

I prefered the enemies in GW1 that had nearly full skill bars, and fought in “packs”, but that was because GW1 it was more like a team v team encounter everytime, rather than actually feel like solo play.

That was much more engaging for me than simply swinging my sword, then swinging my sword again….hate to say, I actually think you can compare the blandness of enemies to games like early-game WoW and Aion

I agree with this. GW1 enemies were infinitely more challenging for the players because you had to have the right team composition and skills to counter mob teams whose skill sets grew more sophisticated as you progressed through the game. It is called synergy, and whatever team is more "synergized " comes out on top which, interestingly, was both true for GW1 PvP and PvE. (Solo farming builds in PvE would be an exception).

In GW2… yeah… “I swung a sword, hey, I swung a sword again!” pretty much sums up GW2 PvE combat. And the word “bland”, when describing monsters in GW2 compared to GW1, fits everything in one word. The mob mechanics are ancient and cliche: tons of hp, one-shot mechanics, non-removable conditions, cc spam… where’s the design revolution in that?

IndigoSundown.5419:

Farzo.8410:

While talking about ’’monsters’’ I think this enemy is the most weird one…

It’s those bandits running around with kegs, suicide bombing, yet, they don’t die themselves, or taking any damage at all.

I mean, what the hell? Running around with an explosive keg, put it down, fuse it, and not take damage yourself?! That enemy makes no sense!

(I know there are many weird enemies that doesn’t make sense but this one is beyond my imagination!)

This is very like a player ability. Engineers with Bomb Kit do the same thing these mobs are doing, except the Engi’s do more damage but no knock.

We do have the knockback on Big ol bomb (bandits has the same graphic too), the bandits have a faster cooldown on it though.

GW1 was just superior. and it was not because it was out longer. It was superior since prophecies. I remember the droknar runs. They were so hard to do. But kitten if you practiced it, and you could do it, it felt so good and you could get so much gold for it from players. Poeple respected you.
Just giving GW2 monsters skills won’t do it. We need to do 3 things:
1. Stop the 1 shot mechanic, instead split that dmg over multiple monsters. This creates a way more dynamic fight. Having more mobs.
2. After step 1, lower the mob HP and higher the dmg
3. Create skills that are not spammable by making sure they only have effect when X happens. Like, for the next 3 seconds if an attack does more than 80 dmg you heal for 100. Because in the current system you only have skills like “Heal 500”. The current system is a boring system, you don’t have to think. So change the skills back like how they were in gw1. This creates teamplay, strategy & FUN.

The enemies are different/weaker to allow solo play. Got to say though that it’s too easy to just avoid everything in GW2. Also I don’t think they wanted to go into the detail of giving mobs specific builds and such. Kind of sucks.

i think you can not compare gw and gw2, there are different game mechanics and whole game concept..
for me is gw the most awesome game i have ever played, but i enjoy gw2 too :-)

The problem is, Guild Wars 1 was instanced and Guild Wars 2 is open world. So the more interested stuff has to be in dungeons. You can’t have mixed mobs respawning in the open world, no matter what players want, because far more players will be annoyed by it than players who want it.

Take a look at the krait. Anet made the krait harder and afterwards people complained. Look at AC. Anet made the dungeon harder and people stopped running it.

In an instanced game, you could make stuff hard, because first of all, no one was ever alone. You had henchmen with you and later heroes. And so you always fought in a group against groups.

You can’t really give everyone five or six henchmen in the open world, because if you do, you could end up with 12 guys together and you have an army of sixty. It wouldn’t work. You can’t have different professions healing each other in the open world, because one guy might not be able to do much against that, and how is that fair to him. Maybe someone plays at 3 am and there’s no one around. You were never alone in Guild Wars 1.

Guild Wars 1, in the later years, was far easier than Guild Wars 2 is now. It was complete yawn mode. People don’t remember, but things usually appeared in the same place. You pretty much knew exactly there this group was going to be and pretty much knew exactly how to tackle it.

Sure there were challenging runs in Guild Wars 1 (like the Droks run). Except it’s not challenging at all with a full party once you know it and have the right build. It’s only fun/challenging with a smaller party. You’ve changed the rules of the game.

So do the same thing here. Test yourself. Take off half your armor and then try the Cursed Shore. Try to solo a veteran karka. Try to run the Grawl tunnel in Frostgorge.

The last many years of Guild Wars 1, the game was so easy as to be unplayable. Those who fondly remember the Droks run, or the hydras in the crystal desert, are remembering a point in time.

Very often there are harder creatures and groups in dungeons in this game…but people don’t want to run the hard paths. They’d much rather repeat CoF path 1.

zemiacsik.4590:

i think you can not compare gw and gw2, there are different game mechanics and whole game concept..
for me is gw the most awesome game i have ever played, but i enjoy gw2 too :-)

I agree, you can’t compare an open world game to a team based instanced game. Wondering if there are any mobs in any mmo that could totally own someone in the open world. The only time I think it happens is if the mob is of mini-boss/raid boss caliber or the player has taken on too many or just plain went to sleep.

Guild Wars was great, but the entire game was essentially a lobby town game with dungeon after dungeon…the open world there, ya…dungeon. The only time you ran alone is if you were doing just that…running or was using some sort of invinci-build to farm. Enemies in there kind of had to be balanced around team v team play.

Flip side to that I get though, if you were to 1v1 from character to mob it still makes for an interesting fight, if you had the counter skills of what the mob was carrying. Because if you meet that mob and your build sucks, you would certainly go and change it to counter.

I also think direct healing played a role but won’t go into that.

Try soloing a dungeon here, not easy. Granted, the combat doesn’t seem to be as complex or deep here, but it’s decent for the game type, (action combat). This game and other action combat games are the building blocks for what we will see coming out 5years from now

Some of you spoke about dungeon but I’m talking about open world. Now, if you want to speak about dungeons, I globally found GW1 dungeons more interesting because mobs died rather quickly, but they did good damage and without a good teamplay, it was easy to get wipe.
GW2 is all about surviving big hits (dodging mostly).

Now, in open world, it was clearly made for solo play and because of that, most people solo. They just regroup for events but even then, they don’t really have to play “together”, no need, just solo stuff with other people around.

If open world was a lot tougher, people would need to play in groups, that’s what an mmo is for. Even if you want to, doing hearts in group is not fun because it is mostly solo play (except some of them like elemental arena).

GW1 End game for easy only when you had heroes and pve skills. Without overpowered pve skills and full hero teams, it was not easy.
And when you had 7 heroes, you ended with a good synergy skill sets and teamplay.

All of this is useless in GW2 open world and it is sad because they made a great world with very detailed maps. But it is pointless to explore because there is no danger, no challenge. Almost anyone can run solo anywhere and survive.

If challenge comes only in fractal and dungeon, then it’s a bad design for me.

Ever remember you first run to prophecies campaign? It was actually hard, even in ascalon. I can remember dying a lot when doing diessa lands with some random pugs.

GW2 was clearly designed to low-skilled players, so they added some challenge in dungeons to please everybody. At least, it is my point of view.

The best way to “fix” mobs, in my opinion, is to give them what GW1 mobs had. Good attack speed, aka attack speed similar to what the players have.

Mobs in GW2 (normal ones) die before they even attack once when you are doing events, so adding more and more mobs isn’t the answer, they will just die in seconds. One way to solve this problem is to add Veterans and Champions, what’s Anet is doing. That’s also wrong, how about making those hit the moment they spawn with quick attacks? Something that all mobs are missing are skill1 attacks, reduce their overall dps slightly, and give them small, but fast, attacks, similar to skill1 attacks that players have. It will also have the added benefit of making Toughness/Vitality more valuable, a player without any will die after numerous small attacks hit him, can’t dodge them all.

Some Veterans can already deal some damage, the new F&F mobs were actually challenging, great design on those. More of those are needed, maybe in bigger groups (with normal versions) instead of big groups of easily killed normals and one veteran. The Risen in Arah are also nicely done, they actually form parties and are challenging to defeat, there is a reason they are sometimes “Harder” than the bosses, so players skip them. More of those, but in normal/veteran qualities instead of dungeon mobs, are needed, maybe even make some spawn at events instead of champions. They have varied attack patterns and actually useful skills.

I remember when facing minotaurs in GW1 you were at risk of losing your life if hit with too many groups at once. Here they are like little babies just begging to be played with and hugged. Seriously they made them SO much weaker….

Paulytnz.7619:

I remember when facing minotaurs in GW1 you were at risk of losing your life if hit with too many groups at once. Here they are like little babies just begging to be played with and hugged. Seriously they made them SO much weaker….

Sure because you don’t have eight guys with you all the time. And later in Guild Wars 1’s life span, even hard mode was ridiculously easy. My heroes were specced out and I could literally go afk and come back to a field of dead bodies. I didn’t have to play at all, my heroes were so good.

GW1 mobs were far more fun and engaging to fight IMO, especially WiK/WoC mobs. Anet was so focused on improving the MMO genre yet they forgot/ignored the one major area that really needs help; mob design.

Vayne.8563:

Paulytnz.7619:

I remember when facing minotaurs in GW1 you were at risk of losing your life if hit with too many groups at once. Here they are like little babies just begging to be played with and hugged. Seriously they made them SO much weaker….

Sure because you don’t have eight guys with you all the time. And later in Guild Wars 1’s life span, even hard mode was ridiculously easy. My heroes were specced out and I could literally go afk and come back to a field of dead bodies. I didn’t have to play at all, my heroes were so good.

I had a full team of Heroes too. The point I’m making is that even just 1 on 1 they were a challenge unlike here. Very often I would face one alone or see one of my Heroes facing one alone and not doing too well. Here, I can go vs 3-4 without breaking a sweat.

Paulytnz.7619:

Vayne.8563:

Paulytnz.7619:

I remember when facing minotaurs in GW1 you were at risk of losing your life if hit with too many groups at once. Here they are like little babies just begging to be played with and hugged. Seriously they made them SO much weaker….

Sure because you don’t have eight guys with you all the time. And later in Guild Wars 1’s life span, even hard mode was ridiculously easy. My heroes were specced out and I could literally go afk and come back to a field of dead bodies. I didn’t have to play at all, my heroes were so good.

I had a full team of Heroes too. The point I’m making is that even just 1 on 1 they were a challenge unlike here. Very often I would face one alone or see one of my Heroes facing one alone and not doing too well. Here, I can go vs 3-4 without breaking a sweat.

Depend on your profession, your build and where you are. There are times when, on almost any profession, I can be outdone by a sudden event spawning, or running into a couple of vets and a few regulars.

I played both Guild Wars 1 and Guild Wars 2, and in my opinion, combat in Guild Wars 2 is harder. It requires more effort and concentration on my part. Guild Wars 1 required nothing of the sort, because I didn’t have to move around while fighting.

GW1 wasn’t as boring as GW2 in it’s first year of release.

Paulytnz.7619:

Vayne.8563:

Paulytnz.7619:

I remember when facing minotaurs in GW1 you were at risk of losing your life if hit with too many groups at once. Here they are like little babies just begging to be played with and hugged. Seriously they made them SO much weaker….

Sure because you don’t have eight guys with you all the time. And later in Guild Wars 1’s life span, even hard mode was ridiculously easy. My heroes were specced out and I could literally go afk and come back to a field of dead bodies. I didn’t have to play at all, my heroes were so good.

I had a full team of Heroes too. The point I’m making is that even just 1 on 1 they were a challenge unlike here. Very often I would face one alone or see one of my Heroes facing one alone and not doing too well. Here, I can go vs 3-4 without breaking a sweat.

What? Minotaurs in GW1 were a challenge? I could solo whole groups of them 6+ -in Hard Mode- without any kind of problem on my Mesmer,Monk,Ritualist,Elementalist, maybe others too I didn’t solo with all my chars, and all that while being nearly afk. 1vs1 most mobs in GW1 were as easy as in GW2, if not easier. There was absolutely no mob you couldn’t take 1vs1 if you were a competent player, much like in GW2, the big difference is that mobs in GW1 were always in groups, and those ORGANISED groups, with healers, aoe dps, buffers, interrupters were the hardest fights, harder than the dungeon bosses. That didn’t make those mobs any harder individually

Vayne.8563:

Sure because you don’t have eight guys with you all the time. And later in Guild Wars 1’s life span, even hard mode was ridiculously easy. My heroes were specced out and I could literally go afk and come back to a field of dead bodies. I didn’t have to play at all, my heroes were so good.

Exactly what I meant, you should see heroes as humans.
Heroes were introduced to allow “solo” in difficult areas. It was far harder to play with PUGs (and no pve skills).

Now, think of GW1 without heroes as it was before nightfall. It wasn’t easy and require skills to succeed. Because monsters were tough !
In many outposts, you could see players unable to win a mission or a difficult quest. They didn’t have skills to outperform monsters and mercenaries were bad.

maddoctor.2738:

There was absolutely no mob you couldn’t take 1vs1 if you were a competent player, much like in GW2, the big difference is that mobs in GW1 were always in groups, and those ORGANISED groups, with healers, aoe dps, buffers, interrupters were the hardest fights, harder than the dungeon bosses. That didn’t make those mobs any harder individually

If you exclude bosses, this is true, but it requires some preparation to fight some monsters.
For example, let’s try to kill a desert crystal hydra alone. If you can’t interrupt meteor, fireball, or inferno, you were just dead.

You have to know monsters to understand how to defeat them, and for many encounters, you have to change some skills because if you couldn’t prevent their heal or big spells, your group could be killed.

Now, compare with GW2, I never need to consider my utilities or weapon to fight monters because they are all dumb without any consequent challenge. Only ettins and their knockdown gave me some challenge early on.
In GW1, I could dress a huge list of challenging monsters (solo or in group): jade knight, hydra, wind rider, moss scarab and earth elementals in crystal desert, […]

Finally, compare GW1 monster groups with GW2 and it is exponential.

Leo Paul.1659:

GW1 wasn’t as boring as GW2 in it’s first year of release.

Complete opinion. Many people found it more boring…many people find it less. Boring is a matter of personal taste, not a matter of fact.

Aigleborgne.2981:

maddoctor.2738:

There was absolutely no mob you couldn’t take 1vs1 if you were a competent player, much like in GW2, the big difference is that mobs in GW1 were always in groups, and those ORGANISED groups, with healers, aoe dps, buffers, interrupters were the hardest fights, harder than the dungeon bosses. That didn’t make those mobs any harder individually

If you exclude bosses, this is true, but it requires some preparation to fight some monsters.
For example, let’s try to kill a desert crystal hydra alone. If you can’t interrupt meteor, fireball, or inferno, you were just dead.

You have to know monsters to understand how to defeat them, and for many encounters, you have to change some skills because if you couldn’t prevent their heal or big spells, your group could be killed.

Now, compare with GW2, I never need to consider my utilities or weapon to fight monters because they are all dumb without any consequent challenge. Only ettins and their knockdown gave me some challenge early on.
In GW1, I could dress a huge list of challenging monsters (solo or in group): jade knight, hydra, wind rider, moss scarab and earth elementals in crystal desert, […]

Finally, compare GW1 monster groups with GW2 and it is exponential.

600 monks. Perman sins. Ursan teams. It’s all nice in theory but there are some specs that worked with everything.

Vayne.8563:

Leo Paul.1659:

GW1 wasn’t as boring as GW2 in it’s first year of release.

Complete opinion. Many people found it more boring…many people find it less. Boring is a matter of personal taste, not a matter of fact.

Of course it’s an opinion. Never stated it to be otherwise. GW1’s story mode was handled a lot better than GW2’s, which is really what I’m after. GW2’s feel lacking – not incomplete in terms of tackled subjects or its length, just generally lacking that it failed to draw me in emotionally. With GW1’s I found myself checking the forums to know more about the plot, theories, etc.

Anyway, GW1 didn’t have to inject so much new content in order to preserve interest in the game. I was content with what we had then until factions was released.

Leo Paul.1659:

Vayne.8563:

Leo Paul.1659:

GW1 wasn’t as boring as GW2 in it’s first year of release.

Complete opinion. Many people found it more boring…many people find it less. Boring is a matter of personal taste, not a matter of fact.

Of course it’s an opinion. Never stated it to be otherwise. GW1’s story mode was handled a lot better than GW2’s, which is really what I’m after. GW2’s feel lacking – not incomplete in terms of tackled subjects or its length, just generally lacking that it failed to draw me in emotionally. With GW1’s I found myself checking the forums to know more about the plot, theories, etc.

Anyway, GW1 didn’t have to inject so much new content in order to preserve interest in the game. I was content with what we had then until factions was released.

Guild Wars 1 was released 8 years ago, an eternity in gaming terms. It doesn’t MATTER what was successful in Guild Wars 1. If it was released today, it wouldn’t have the same impact it had then. There wasn’t nearly the competition.

It wasn’t as big a business back then, the investment wasn’t as high, the risk wasn’t as high.

There’s no way anyone can possibly compare the two without taking these factors into account.

Vayne.8563:

Leo Paul.1659:

Vayne.8563:

Leo Paul.1659:

GW1 wasn’t as boring as GW2 in it’s first year of release.

Complete opinion. Many people found it more boring…many people find it less. Boring is a matter of personal taste, not a matter of fact.

Of course it’s an opinion. Never stated it to be otherwise. GW1’s story mode was handled a lot better than GW2’s, which is really what I’m after. GW2’s feel lacking – not incomplete in terms of tackled subjects or its length, just generally lacking that it failed to draw me in emotionally. With GW1’s I found myself checking the forums to know more about the plot, theories, etc.

Anyway, GW1 didn’t have to inject so much new content in order to preserve interest in the game. I was content with what we had then until factions was released.

Guild Wars 1 was released 8 years ago, an eternity in gaming terms. It doesn’t MATTER what was successful in Guild Wars 1. If it was released today, it wouldn’t have the same impact it had then. There wasn’t nearly the competition.

It wasn’t as big a business back then, the investment wasn’t as high, the risk wasn’t as high.

There’s no way anyone can possibly compare the two without taking these factors into account.

In relation to my point of what I liked about GW1 over GW2, storytelling isn’t as generational as gameplay in MMO is. What is engrossing is engrossing, regardless if it was released a century ago. As far as the modality goes of releasing temporary content monthly and whether it spells success or not, it boils down to opinion as much as my original statement does.

Aigleborgne.2981:

You have to know monsters to understand how to defeat them, and for many encounters, you have to change some skills because if you couldn’t prevent their heal or big spells, your group could be killed.

Now, compare with GW2, I never need to consider my utilities or weapon to fight monters because they are all dumb without any consequent challenge. Only ettins and their knockdown gave me some challenge early on.
In GW1, I could dress a huge list of challenging monsters (solo or in group): jade knight, hydra, wind rider, moss scarab and earth elementals in crystal desert, […]

Finally, compare GW1 monster groups with GW2 and it is exponential.

Jade Knights, Wind Riders, Moss Scarabs and Earth Elementals weren’t exactly challenging. Hydras could pose a threat if you didn’t THINK before engaging them, they only had a SINGLE skill you need to look out for and most professions can deal with it. GW1 was so full of OP builds that rolling one of those made soloing a breeze, not to mention the “easy-mode” Heroes that allowed you to use a zero build and afk everything.

That doesn’t mean there is no need for preparations in GW2, to give an open world example, Reef Drakes and Young Karka in Southsun. The difference that preparation and a “proper” build can make to these fights is enormous. The F&F new mobs required some thought too, both in the dungeon and outside, too bad they were always underleveled, level 80 versions of those could actually pose a threat. Mobs in dungeons can be threatening, both in groups (Arah) and individual, the Gravelings in AC can be made a LOT easier with the proper preparation (stun breakers/stability), without it you might even wipe a lot of times. CM is a nightmare for early groups without projectile reflections and the list goes on, saying that there are no challenging monsters in GW2 is a lie, preparation can make a difference.

The normal mobs in GW2 are just filler content, they provide no real challenge that’s true, but GW2 is an open world game, they can’t balance the encounters for a specific party size and more importantly, they need to make content doable by the majority of players. If they make mobs move around in groups and impossible to solo, it will cause an outrage…. I’m not sure Anet would want that to happen.

Leo Paul.1659:

Vayne.8563:

Leo Paul.1659:

Vayne.8563:

Leo Paul.1659:

GW1 wasn’t as boring as GW2 in it’s first year of release.

Complete opinion. Many people found it more boring…many people find it less. Boring is a matter of personal taste, not a matter of fact.

Of course it’s an opinion. Never stated it to be otherwise. GW1’s story mode was handled a lot better than GW2’s, which is really what I’m after. GW2’s feel lacking – not incomplete in terms of tackled subjects or its length, just generally lacking that it failed to draw me in emotionally. With GW1’s I found myself checking the forums to know more about the plot, theories, etc.

Anyway, GW1 didn’t have to inject so much new content in order to preserve interest in the game. I was content with what we had then until factions was released.

Guild Wars 1 was released 8 years ago, an eternity in gaming terms. It doesn’t MATTER what was successful in Guild Wars 1. If it was released today, it wouldn’t have the same impact it had then. There wasn’t nearly the competition.

It wasn’t as big a business back then, the investment wasn’t as high, the risk wasn’t as high.

There’s no way anyone can possibly compare the two without taking these factors into account.

In relation to my point of what I liked about GW1 over GW2, storytelling isn’t as generational as gameplay in MMO is. What is engrossing is engrossing, regardless if it was released a century ago. As far as the modality goes of releasing temporary content monthly and whether it spells success or not, it boils down to opinion as much as my original statement does.

My paragraph was in response to the last paragraph you wrote, not the first part. Sorry for the confusion. You specifically stated that Guild Wars 1 didn’t need the infusion of content that Guild Wars 2 has, and I pointed out, rightly, that it’s a completely different situation today.

Sorry for the confusion.

maddoctor.2738:

Jade Knights, Wind Riders, Moss Scarabs and Earth Elementals weren’t exactly challenging. Hydras could pose a threat if you didn’t THINK before engaging them, they only had a SINGLE skill you need to look out for and most professions can deal with it. GW1 was so full of OP builds that rolling one of those made soloing a breeze, not to mention the “easy-mode” Heroes that allowed you to use a zero build and afk everything.

The normal mobs in GW2 are just filler content, they provide no real challenge that’s true, but GW2 is an open world game, they can’t balance the encounters for a specific party size and more importantly, they need to make content doable by the majority of players. If they make mobs move around in groups and impossible to solo, it will cause an outrage…. I’m not sure Anet would want that to happen.

Jade Knights: they are formidable warriors able to do massive damage if you let them. Without any EotN op content, it took me some time to find a build to solo the 3 of them outside an outpost.

Wind Riders: when you play through campaign, playing with pug or mercenaries, you encounter groups of 6 wind riders (level 17) when you are about level 15-16. They move fast and interrupt and degen, I have never been able to kill them at this level !

Moss Scarabs: when you first enter crystal desert and get ambushed by 6-8 of them, it hurts a lot when unprepared

Earth Elementals: first trip through crystal desert, running with pug or henchies, those 5-6 elementals with their boss are killers for most parties. They can be killed even with henchies with good hit & runs and even then, not easy.

So, because they want a solo open world, they can’t put some difficulties?
MMO are just becoming more and more easy, because if it is too difficult, some players whine…
Are you wondering why some many players already left? It is so easy to run through all content that it becomes boring!
And if it was difficult, it would encourage social by grouping with others players instead of soloing…

Vayne.8563:

Leo Paul.1659:

Vayne.8563:

Leo Paul.1659:

Vayne.8563:

Leo Paul.1659:

GW1 wasn’t as boring as GW2 in it’s first year of release.

Complete opinion. Many people found it more boring…many people find it less. Boring is a matter of personal taste, not a matter of fact.

Of course it’s an opinion. Never stated it to be otherwise. GW1’s story mode was handled a lot better than GW2’s, which is really what I’m after. GW2’s feel lacking – not incomplete in terms of tackled subjects or its length, just generally lacking that it failed to draw me in emotionally. With GW1’s I found myself checking the forums to know more about the plot, theories, etc.

Anyway, GW1 didn’t have to inject so much new content in order to preserve interest in the game. I was content with what we had then until factions was released.

Guild Wars 1 was released 8 years ago, an eternity in gaming terms. It doesn’t MATTER what was successful in Guild Wars 1. If it was released today, it wouldn’t have the same impact it had then. There wasn’t nearly the competition.

It wasn’t as big a business back then, the investment wasn’t as high, the risk wasn’t as high.

There’s no way anyone can possibly compare the two without taking these factors into account.

In relation to my point of what I liked about GW1 over GW2, storytelling isn’t as generational as gameplay in MMO is. What is engrossing is engrossing, regardless if it was released a century ago. As far as the modality goes of releasing temporary content monthly and whether it spells success or not, it boils down to opinion as much as my original statement does.

My paragraph was in response to the last paragraph you wrote, not the first part. Sorry for the confusion. You specifically stated that Guild Wars 1 didn’t need the infusion of content that Guild Wars 2 has, and I pointed out, rightly, that it’s a completely different situation today.

Sorry for the confusion.

I see, thanks for the clarification. I still don’t really think it’s imperative to introduce new (and temporary) content every month in order to remain relevant in the MMO scene. Somehow, I feel like it’s a band-aid approach to retain their players.

GW1 monsters had better AI, plus they could heal and res each other.
Remember Aataxes which could 2-3 hit kill you, now compare them to GW2’s counterpart.

Leo Paul.1659:

Vayne.8563:

Leo Paul.1659:

Vayne.8563:

Leo Paul.1659:

Vayne.8563:

Leo Paul.1659:

GW1 wasn’t as boring as GW2 in it’s first year of release.

Complete opinion. Many people found it more boring…many people find it less. Boring is a matter of personal taste, not a matter of fact.

Of course it’s an opinion. Never stated it to be otherwise. GW1’s story mode was handled a lot better than GW2’s, which is really what I’m after. GW2’s feel lacking – not incomplete in terms of tackled subjects or its length, just generally lacking that it failed to draw me in emotionally. With GW1’s I found myself checking the forums to know more about the plot, theories, etc.

Anyway, GW1 didn’t have to inject so much new content in order to preserve interest in the game. I was content with what we had then until factions was released.

Guild Wars 1 was released 8 years ago, an eternity in gaming terms. It doesn’t MATTER what was successful in Guild Wars 1. If it was released today, it wouldn’t have the same impact it had then. There wasn’t nearly the competition.

It wasn’t as big a business back then, the investment wasn’t as high, the risk wasn’t as high.

There’s no way anyone can possibly compare the two without taking these factors into account.

In relation to my point of what I liked about GW1 over GW2, storytelling isn’t as generational as gameplay in MMO is. What is engrossing is engrossing, regardless if it was released a century ago. As far as the modality goes of releasing temporary content monthly and whether it spells success or not, it boils down to opinion as much as my original statement does.

My paragraph was in response to the last paragraph you wrote, not the first part. Sorry for the confusion. You specifically stated that Guild Wars 1 didn’t need the infusion of content that Guild Wars 2 has, and I pointed out, rightly, that it’s a completely different situation today.

Sorry for the confusion.

I see, thanks for the clarification. I still don’t really think it’s imperative to introduce new (and temporary) content every month in order to remain relevant in the MMO scene. Somehow, I feel like it’s a band-aid approach to retain their players.

Most people think most players are like them. This is invariably untrue. There are huge demographics of players different from me, for example. And I agree with you 100%. For me, introducing new content all the time isn’t necessary. The problem is, many if not most players today aren’t like me.

The younger generation today grew up with the internet. They have entertainment options at their fingertips. When I grew up, if you were watching a TV series, and you saw an episode, you had to wait till next week to see the next one. There was no such thing as a VCR. We had to wait and make do. Which meant often we ended up spending time thinking about the program. Drawing conclusions. Looking deep. At least I did.

I watch my sons watch entire TV series at a time, sometimes in one sitting. Episode after episode. The current generation is spoonfed entertainment and as soon as they blow through everything (often by following a walk-through on Dulfy) they’re bored, because they’ve done all the content. I can’t play games that way but you might be surprised at how many do.

Those people represent a huge demograph. It takes them an hour or two to run through new content, and they’re bored again. But if Anet comes up with new content next month, those people come back to the game. They get those achievements. They add to the population.

Each time someone comes into the game, there’s a chance they’ll make friends, join a guild, stay a bit, instead of running off. Maybe they’ll do something they enjoyed a few months back ,because it’s new again. But they can’t do it if they don’t come back.

Have you seen the different in server populations before and after an update. I’d say it’s huge.

Nick.6972:

GW1 monsters had better AI, plus they could heal and res each other.
Remember Aataxes which could 2-3 hit kill you, now compare them to GW2’s counterpart.

Yes, but you can’t compare a 15th level aatxe in a starting area, to a end game aataxe in the Underworld. Well you can, obviously, but it doesn’t make sense to.

It’s like in Guild Wars 1 the lower level versions of wind riders and higher level ones. The ones in hard mode, in groups, could be quite annoying…the low level ones..not so much.

Well, but isn’t all zones in GW2 supposed to be an “End Game”?
The “End Game Starts From Level 1” bs.

Nick.6972:

Well, but isn’t all zones in GW2 supposed to be an “End Game”?
The “End Game Starts From Level 1” bs.

I’m not sure how it’s more possible to miss a point than this. Did you think that meant everything in the starter zone would be so hard that only experts could complete it? What about new players. This is a completely disingenous interpretation of something that at least most people seemed to understand.

Anet was talking about how most games, like WoW, you have to rush through all the content to fight big, exciting bosses. That’s it.

Do you NOT see tons of people waiting for the Shadow Behemoth? Why do you think a creature like the Shadow Behemoth was included in a starter zone? It was done because what you’re doing at end game is much the same as what you’re doing during the game in general.

This is in contrast to other games. I can’t even count in interviews in which Colin said that in most games,. when you get to level cap the game changes. In this game, not so much. You can do all the same stuff. That’s ALL it meant.

If you don’t like that stuff, find a game you do like, but don’t try to twist what was said into what you want it to mean. I’m sure this was explained very clearly in more place than one.

@Vayne: It’s not that I don’t appreciate what it’s doing for the community because I do see how many people enjoy MOST of the new content. I just think there should be more focus on fixing and pushing forward what’s already there rather than introducing temporary activities and mini-games that has very little pertinence to the main plot [particularly, the lack of competitive content that ties in with pve and lore a bit more cohesively (whether via factions or something) is something that I hope gets addressed soon.] The initial buzz it generates ultimately isn’t enough to compensate for what is lacking in the game in a bigger picture for me. For example, I have lost interest in the living story in general, and only do the achievements arbitrarily for the sake of being rewarded, paying no attention to what it’s about.

You are entirely correct though that this particular opinion of mine is probably not the most popular, and that it (monthly temporary contents and updates) may be what the game needs in order to secure its longevity.

Leo Paul.1659:

@Vayne: It’s not that I don’t appreciate what it’s doing for the community because I do see how many people enjoy MOST of the new content. I just think there should be more focus on fixing and pushing forward what’s already there rather than introducing temporary activities and mini-games that has very little pertinence to the main plot [particularly, the lack of competitive content that ties in with pve and lore a bit more cohesively (whether via factions or something) is something that I hope gets addressed soon.] The initial buzz it generates ultimately isn’t enough to compensate for what is lacking in the game in a bigger picture for me. For example, I have lost interest in the living story in general, and only do the achievements arbitrarily for the sake of being rewarded, paying no attention to what it’s about.

You are entirely correct though that this particular opinion of mine is probably not the most popular, and that it (monthly temporary contents and updates) may be what the game needs in order to secure its longevity.

I believe Anet is working on other things as well, but they take longer to implement. They may even be saving that stuff for the paid update when it comes. In the mean time, they still need to keep people in game.

As for the stuff on the island, it’s not exactly “brilliant” story stuff, but it is a story and I’m interested to see where it goes. The crab toss game is some of the most fun I’ve had in Guild Wars 2. I’ll never win it, because the latency I have in Australia makes that almost impossible, but I’ve gotten the other three achievements from it and I still play it just for fun. I mean I’m having a blast. Whoever thought to put a fishing rod in there that you can use to snatch the crab remotely out of someone else’s hands is a genius. I like it a lot better than keg brawl, which I also enjoy because I prefer the every man for himself, rather than random teaming thing.

And when the karka start rolling around and flatting everyone going after a crab…priceless. It’s really an ingenious game.

maddoctor.2738:

Paulytnz.7619:

Vayne.8563:

Paulytnz.7619:

I remember when facing minotaurs in GW1 you were at risk of losing your life if hit with too many groups at once. Here they are like little babies just begging to be played with and hugged. Seriously they made them SO much weaker….

Sure because you don’t have eight guys with you all the time. And later in Guild Wars 1’s life span, even hard mode was ridiculously easy. My heroes were specced out and I could literally go afk and come back to a field of dead bodies. I didn’t have to play at all, my heroes were so good.

I had a full team of Heroes too. The point I’m making is that even just 1 on 1 they were a challenge unlike here. Very often I would face one alone or see one of my Heroes facing one alone and not doing too well. Here, I can go vs 3-4 without breaking a sweat.

What? Minotaurs in GW1 were a challenge? I could solo whole groups of them 6+ -in Hard Mode- without any kind of problem on my Mesmer,Monk,Ritualist,Elementalist, maybe others too I didn’t solo with all my chars, and all that while being nearly afk. 1vs1 most mobs in GW1 were as easy as in GW2, if not easier. There was absolutely no mob you couldn’t take 1vs1 if you were a competent player, much like in GW2, the big difference is that mobs in GW1 were always in groups, and those ORGANISED groups, with healers, aoe dps, buffers, interrupters were the hardest fights, harder than the dungeon bosses. That didn’t make those mobs any harder individually

Maybe you would run with one of those uber builds that could allow such things as this such as 55 monks etc. I never got as hardcore into GW1 as many others to get to this point. I would build my main char to be able to handle most situations and of course in a team setting. I never once tried setting up an uber solo fighter unlike you by the sounds of things.

Having said that, you could afk in GW1 I am assuming because your allies (heroes/henchies) would attack anything that got too close. How could you do this or why would you even bother to for a great length of time being that were no respawning mobs and once killed they stayed that way until you left the map?

Now if they let our chars in GW2 auto attack or retaliate to any incoming attacks I too could say that I could afk a lot of the encounters (on my main with his current build). That does not make one system or monster from either game harder or simpliar now does it? It just points out the obvious system differences in the 2 games.

Perhaps what I was trying to say here like someone else said was that in GW2 there seems less times/situations where your char has to be setup with a certain build/skill to tackle 99% of the enemies.

Also for me atleast it seemed when creating a build and choosing skills you would always have to sacrifice something over another. Example I would have a heck of a time taking both hex/condition removal as well as have enough attacking skills on my main so I would have to always sacrifice 1 of them usually and just hope my heroes made up for it. Here with the intergrated hex/condition system that’s all out the window, again this adds to what I am saying in a way too.

However I still stand by what I said about minotaurs, even in a full group of heroes I would make sure that I would only engage one group if only there was not too many other groups around as without warning you could easily be hit with an additional 2-3 groups and be over run without too much warning. Note this was on 1 map in particular which I forget the name of but it was part of the EOTN.

I would have to agree.

The same goes for a lot of open world mobs (excluding dynamic event content) – That phrase ‘trolls standing about in a field picking daisies’ sums up the majority of mobs behaviour, to the point where when entering a condensed area you can safely pick through a pack by pulling individual mobs.

Some of the AI needs to be drastically improved in my opinion. Skill pools as well, as already mentioned, especially in mid to higher level areas in the game. However what I’d personally think would help is more behaviour mechanics like patrols, aggro mechanics (i mean at the minute aggro extends mostly to closest player), mobs with more CC usage and as a few posters above me have said; THE ABILITY TO WORK TOGETHER. Synergy between a group. I want to see mobs using buffs and debuffs in accordance to their situation, skills that combo players and mobs in which choose a role upon entering combat. Extend this increased mob AI into dungeons and other content and the challenge will feel fair and deep. Synergy, co-ordination and co-operation within groups of players will feel extremely important again.

The only problem with this is the increased difficulty on lesser skilled solo players – and it could potentially make some builds totally non viable within the open world. Solo play is still important after all as even the strongest of communities need some space from time to time.
With no henchmen or heroes (which isnt likely to come to gw2), I can understand why anet have taken the safer option by making most mobs trash. Theres alot of threads already in this forum about how forcing people to group is a bad idea (something iv never agreed with, grouped content should be the primary focus of a massively mutliplayer game).

Aigleborgne.2981:

(…)Because monsters had skills: they slow you down, stun, knockback, and some of them do high damage.(…)

That sounds like Orr. Everyone, come!

There were no monsters as bland, avoidworthy as boring in GW1 as the Warg in GW2. That imho is just boring enemy in a nutshell, I’d rather take a long route and fight more monsters than walk the quick route and fight one of those uninspired things.

Rouven.7409:

Aigleborgne.2981:

(…)Because monsters had skills: they slow you down, stun, knockback, and some of them do high damage.(…)

That sounds like Orr. Everyone, come!

Seriously? Orr? I can walk over all the map in Orr and kill any veterans alone with my staff elementalist. There is definitly not a real challenge there. Except temples and champions, but this is special.

In GW1, we had heroes and henchmen because everything was instance, so it was needed. In GW2, you can found some people here and here, different game.

Plus, I don’t like concept to be able to do anything alone in a MMO. First, because it’s a MMO and second, because if you gave that possibility, most players will play solo (why loosing time to group when everything can be done solo?)

Aigleborgne.2981:

Seriously? Orr? (…)

Seriously. Before it was patched. After many people complained. You can probably still find the threads.

Rouven.7409:

Aigleborgne.2981:

Seriously? Orr? (…)

Lotta those people left leaving a lop sided response team here…

Seriously. Before it was patched. After many people complained. You can probably still find the threads.

You have to come up with new ones, this is 2013

If complaints match last years then ouchies!

Farzo.8410:

While talking about ’’monsters’’ I think this enemy is the most weird one…

It’s those bandits running around with kegs, suicide bombing, yet, they don’t die themselves, or taking any damage at all.

I mean, what the hell? Running around with an explosive keg, put it down, fuse it, and not take damage yourself?! That enemy makes no sense!

(I know there are many weird enemies that doesn’t make sense but this one is beyond my imagination!)

Lol I never realised that, but now I do and share the same thoughts as you :P

If I had to choose my favorite open-world enemies, I’d have to say Veteran Karka. They’re challenging, have a variety of tactics, require you to react to what they are doing and easily overwhelm an unprepared adventurer. I know some hate them, but I embrace the challenge. Especially now that they have the guaranteed shell drop, so they are worth the time spent killing them.

Groups of Sons of Svanir often have a variety of different enemies, but since their range of abilities is very limited in most cases (damage, AoE damage, rapid damage), they aren’t so very memorable. However, the shamans who summon ice elementals, those are interesting. More of that. Just because I might adventure on my own, doesn’t mean I shouldn’t need to think of target priority.

What made monsters in Guild Wars 1 more interesting was that they were in groups and they had synergy together along with group tactics. If you took them as individuals they would be just as mundane as it is in Guild Wars 2.

I prefer squad based games in large part because they can make more interesting encounters with it.

Hydras were murder if you weren’t quick in taking them down.
I absolutely hated the Titans. You took out the Titan and then got the Risen Ashen Hulk, then you got the Hand and the Fist of the Titans once you’d taken that out. It was just hard cheese if you accidentally killed a second Titan before you’d dealt with the spawns of the first one.