Guild Wars 2

As someone who went from “free 2 play” games to this, I assure you, they are NOT greedy. You want greedy, play Marvel Heroes. Theres a sale on steam. Only $40 to play as Captain America, Iron Man, Thor, and Ms Marvel….. forget that.

I can buy anything from the store with in game gold. That alone is a big step up from every other cash shop ever.

Also, I started playing GW1 recently. Its good, sure, but Im quickly reminded what I love about GW2…its different. GW1 is a generic MMO. A well built, fully furnished generic MMO, but still. I also like the individually defined classes, as opposed to the dual classes.

There isnt grinding in GW2, not in the way that is so bad to a game. All the grinding in this game is optional, and most people who grind need to rethink why they play games in the first place. I feel myself grinding in GW1 though….to progress. THATS THE BAD GRINDING.

I agree about LS though….permenant content is so much better.

That another game is worse doesn’t remove all burden from this game to examine itself. This game is not a tragedy in terms of cash shop greed, but the direction it is moving is the wrong direction, no matter how slight that movement may be. This is what happens when game design decisions are weighed by how they will impact the gem shop.

GW2 has far more in common with standard MMOs that GW1. I can’t comprehend at all how you would say it was a generic MMO when you could run around as a full party with nothing but you and AI you’d configured and complete all PvE content, including dungeons/bosses.

Classes were just as individually defined because when you had a primary class in GW1 it gave you a primary class stat that you could not get as a secondary. This make the mixture one of synergy rather than blurring the lines. I played GW1 for -years-, and every grind in GW1 was for something cosmetic or so inconsequential in terms of player power that it wasn’t necessary.

Even if they maintain that same stat disparity and power disparity with items you grind for here, the trouble is that now it’s a party based game where you have to play with other people. What do other people want? Min/Max party members. If you’re not optimal, you’re not viable, and if you’re not considered viable under this rework of the definition, your access to content is restricted.

Guild War 1 isn’t an MMO at all…even Anet will tell you that. Guild Wars 1 is a CoRPG (cooperative RPG) and that makes a lot of the difference between the two. Just the act of adding the persistent world changes the game drastically.

It’s far easier to program a lobby game like Guild Wars 1 than a true MMO. It accounts for a lot of the differences in the game.

Other changes were made because of problems encountered in the first game. The simplest example is GW 1 has far more skills and had a second profession…which caused some of the worst balance issues I’ve seen in any game, ever. It was fun to make builds but that’s one of the downsides.

The other downside of it was how hard it was for people to learn to play it, which is why it remained niche.

With skills tied to weapons, everyone has a usable build.

There is nothing magical about GW2’s persistence compared to GW1 in terms of game design. Take a city center and put mobs in it you can kill and you have the open world areas. Dungeons are still instanced. Want to remove heroes/henchmen from open world? That’s fine, nothing there requires a party outside of group events which don’t require a pre-made party to begin with.

In every way that’s crucially important, GW1 was an MMO. Your character persisted. You could trade with other players with that persistent character and know that their character was persisted under the same rules as yours. You could see many players in a city and interact with them.

I’m not really advocating for a second profession per character though, easy enough to live without that, but it will be nice to see a new set of abilities released per class and much better balance in terms of group utility in PvE/PvP OR the return of henchmen so you can get rid of the need to be optimal rather than just viable.

Being “niche” funded a massive company that was able to fund development of GW2 over several years. Solving skill bloat, balance issues and new user overload can all be done while still incorporating things that made GW1 unique and incredible.

Unleashed.6195:

In every way that’s crucially important, GW1 was an MMO.

I think the main step back has been in the community. The GW2 community is exactly the players we did not want in the original Guild Wars – the kind of people who said “What, only 20 levels? That means there is nothing to do in this game, LOL!”, or that it wasn’t a true MMORPG because it didn’t have 40-men raids.

Unfortunatelly, ArenaNet began making concessions to those players near the end of the original Guild Wars (with the title ranks originally linked to making skills more powerful, even if the entire thing was nerfed later so rank became almost meaningless), and they were their main audience with GW2 (even if in theory they were not the main target audience).

That’s what we have now. Something that, in some aspects, greatly improves the original Guild Wars experience… But also greatly dilutes it by mixing many elements of common MMORPGs; and a community that couldn’t care less about the former aspects, only to obsess over the later elements. It’s greatly disappointing, but that’s what the game is.

Agreed. I just don’t see that it hast o remain that game. Something as simple (in terms of explaining what to do, I realize this isn’t necessarily simple to implement) as reintroducing heroes/henchmen for 5-man PvE content and clamping down on the grinds (they’re everywhere right now…) to keep them from spreading any further while moving some of them to be account bound would bring back much of the magic from GW1 in terms of gameplay.

I don’t know that I agree with the financial aspects of what you are saying. I have played since launch and thousands of hours mind you and I have spent exactly 0 dollars in the gem shop. Have I bought gems with gold? Yeah. Oh, and I got a $25 gem card for my birthday, but I only have ever spent in game gold on the gem shop. The system is FANTASTIC in my opinion.

The thing I love most? I am in a good sized guild that I started with a buddy in GW1 in 2007. We have grown a ton since then and have all been here since launch and have added a lot of new players. We all get to play together if we want. No more games with 4 or 5 or 8 or 12 man parties. We all get to do events together nightly and it is a blast.

I think the pros of this game outweigh its cons. Who needs Koss when you have friends to play with?

Most players who think this way tend to fall into “you can never go back” once you have moved to something else due to time or to other reason nothing even the game that first inspired the feeling in the first place will ever feel the same or give you that feeling your looking for. So your left with that “you can never go back” chose to stay in the past saying something is not as good as or try to move forwarded and try out new things.

The new skin ticket system is a prime example, as are the visual skins being one time use only @ $10 a pop. There’s no reason they can’t be reusable, indefinitely, and depending on how many gear sets you try out at max level, if you really like a cash skin, using it could cost you $30-$40 for your combinations. Answer of course is to just not buy them. Same with upgrades. If you’re fine risking losing a rune on an upgrade, no reason to buy the BL salvage kits, but the 100% recovery come at a pretty high cost.

All that said, you may be right that I will feel differently after much more time in the game where gold is not a constant restriction. I tend to level all chars to max first and THEN do end game, which usually is pretty expensive.

As for playing with others instead of Koss of your alt heroes? Nothing prevented that in GW1. I played with real people often. The option NOT to play with real people when you need to is what’s missing.

It’s not so much that I’m stuck in the past either, I just was looking for more from GW2 than a nicely refined MMO in GW skin. I was looking for a spiritual successor to GW1, something where the 2 made sense.

Unleashed.6195:

The new skin ticket system is a prime example, as are the visual skins being one time use only @ $10 a pop. There’s no reason they can’t be reusable, indefinitely, and depending on how many gear sets you try out at max level, if you really like a cash skin, using it could cost you $30-$40 for your combinations.

The irony is that this isn’t the only way the new system is worse than the GW1 costume system.

(For those who didn’t play the game: ArenaNet sold in the in-game store special armor sets called “costumes”. Once bought, they worked as a layer over your armor, in special costume slots; this means you could keep the look of your old armor, instead of having to replace it with your costume. We could also spawn as many costume sets as we wanted, between all our characters, after just buying it once.)

One of the ArenaNet artists mentioned how costumes were cool, because they were easier to make – since they were not many armor pieces, rather a piece for the entire body and one for the head, the artists didn’t have to worry about clipping with currently existing pieces of armor. This made the costumes significantly easier to design than usual armor sets.

GW2 lost this. Not only we have to buy skins set by set, character by character; but also the skins sold are split into different pieces, and the clothes skins cannot even be worn in combat. This makes the current system not only far worse to us, players, but also for ArenaNet’s artists.

If the new medium armor aether set wasn’t so perfect for an engineer (minus the helm), I’d have protested by never buying it again once I realized it was single use per item. $10 for one set of armor restyle…. ugh.

Shrug I hope their financial success allows them to move a little back towards the magic of GW1 rather than cements their belief that this new philosophy is the way forward. If that happens, then I hope someone else creates a modern tribute to GW1 and does it justice.

Unleashed.6195:

If the new medium armor aether set wasn’t so perfect for an engineer (minus the helm), I’d have protested by never buying it again once I realized it was single use per item. $10 for one set of armor restyle…. ugh.

Shrug I hope their financial success allows them to move a little back towards the magic of GW1 rather than cements their belief that this new philosophy is the way forward. If that happens, then I hope someone else creates a modern tribute to GW1 and does it justice.

That magic as you call it is dead in every thing you will play from here on get over it and try things from new points of view YOU CANT GO BACK.
I mean you would be playing GW1 if you wanted that magic back but your not so the magic of GW1 is gone too.

I completely agree op, even though the usual suspects jump in and say otherwise there are a lot of people that agree with you.

More actually than these guys understand..

Dante.1508:

I completely agree op, even though the usual suspects jump in and say otherwise there are a lot of people that agree with you.

More actually than these guys understand..

I think its the same few ppl making these threads saying the same thing and then commenting on other threads that are saying the same thing is more of the “usual suspects” as you call them. When was the last time any of these ppl posted on any thing BUT a “I hate GW2 or GW2 is not good as…”?

Except that what made it magical wasn’t the sense of wonder at something new, but the option to play content with or -without- people through even the most difficult aspects of PvE while the monetization was done in a way that was respectful of players yet allowed me to spend far more on it than I would have if it were b2p or subscription based.

This isn’t a matter of rose tinted nostalgia. It’s a matter of this isn’t a sequel to GW1. It’s a more heavy handed cash shop built inside of a GW themed MMO missing a central component of GW1 (AI companions).

You’re right, I won’t go back to playing GW1. I played it for several years. The engine is dated. It needs some of the improvements from GW2. It needs dedicated content support and updates. What I would do however, is play GW2 in a blissful state with heroes/henchmen and less cash shop integration.

Why is it you feel that just because something is new it can’t benefit in any way from what is old? GW2 does many things right GW1 did not, but GW1 did many things right GW2 gets wrong. Even better, and the point of this thread, nothing inherent in GW2’s design prevents bringing what was right about GW1 over and having the best of both worlds.

Unleashed.6195:

Except that what made it magical wasn’t the sense of wonder at something new, but the option to play content with or -without- people through even the most difficult aspects of PvE while the monetization was done in a way that was respectful of players yet allowed me to spend far more on it than I would have if it were b2p or subscription based.

This isn’t a matter of rose tinted nostalgia. It’s a matter of this isn’t a sequel to GW1. It’s a more heavy handed cash shop built inside of a GW themed MMO missing a central component of GW1 (AI companions).

You’re right, I won’t go back to playing GW1. I played it for several years. The engine is dated. It needs some of the improvements from GW2. It needs dedicated content support and updates. What I would do however, is play GW2 in a blissful state with heroes/henchmen and less cash shop integration.

Why is it you feel that just because something is new it can’t benefit in any way from what is old? GW2 does many things right GW1 did not, but GW1 did many things right GW2 gets wrong. Even better, and the point of this thread, nothing inherent in GW2’s design prevents bringing what was right about GW1 over and having the best of both worlds.

That not an mmorpg you want there you want a single player game that you can play with other ppl. You just do not like mmorpg it seems i am not sure if could or even should get that feeling from a game that is not made to be played in such away. That or your just simply never going to be happy with a mainstream game and always trying to be contritely to fun of others.

Jski.6180:

Dante.1508:

I completely agree op, even though the usual suspects jump in and say otherwise there are a lot of people that agree with you.

More actually than these guys understand..

I think its the same few ppl making these threads saying the same thing and then commenting on other threads that are saying the same thing is more of the “usual suspects” as you call them. When was the last time any of these ppl posted on any thing BUT a “I hate GW2 or GW2 is not good as…”?

Well that works both ways, as the same groups say i love GW2 and GW2 is better than… its each players point of view. but honestly i havent seen much good added since halloween, and i’ve been waiting.

Last time i posted what i considered a good post was about the blog, there were some good things apparently going to be added to the game which it needs badly, new skills, better crafting?, less dungeon gold farming etc. we shall see.

It doesn’t change the fact GW2 is not going anywhere at this time though..

Dante.1508:

Jski.6180:

Dante.1508:

I completely agree op, even though the usual suspects jump in and say otherwise there are a lot of people that agree with you.

More actually than these guys understand..

I think its the same few ppl making these threads saying the same thing and then commenting on other threads that are saying the same thing is more of the “usual suspects” as you call them. When was the last time any of these ppl posted on any thing BUT a “I hate GW2 or GW2 is not good as…”?

Well that works both ways, as the same groups say i love GW2 and GW2 is better than… its each players point of view. but honestly i havent seen much good added since halloween, and i’ve been waiting.

Last time i posted what i considered a good post was about the blog there was some good things apparently going to be added to the game which it needs badly, new skills, less dungeon gold farming etc. we shall see.

It doesn’t change the fact GW2 is not going anywhere at this time though..

Well no its not the same ppl do not post or make thread that they love this game and get a lot of ppl to post in it because there IS no point posting or commenting on something that other believe in unless you want to prove something. Hate gets more press then love sadly.
If GW2 was not going anywhere then you would not be posting at all or you would not feel a need to post. These forums would not even be used.

Jski.6180:

Well no its not the same ppl do not post or make thread that they love this game and get a lot of ppl to post in it because there IS no point posting or commenting on something that other believe in unless you want to prove something. Hate gets more press then love sadly.
If GW2 was not going anywhere then you would not be posting at all or you would not feel a need to post. These forums would not even be used.

That is not true at all, the forums are full of both types of people, Gw2 isn’t really progressing at all, its stagnated (at least content wise) that would not make the forum any less appealing to either party. Good or Bad..

The game still gets played. I never said the game is dead..yet its just not progressing for many which could lead to its death in the future.

Jski.6180:

That not an mmorpg you want there you want a single player game that you can play with other ppl

This is the main reason why I think the things the OP mentioned won’t be implemented in the game. Too often we see people here saying, “If you want something better than this, MMOs are not for you”, using it as an excuse for mediocre, grind-filled content.

Well, I think people listened. I wonder how many GW2 players are just MMO hoppers eternally chasing that illusory perfect WoW clone, who will leave as soon as the next AAA MMORPG is released. I think that’s the great majority of the current GW2 community; everyone else was told to leave already.

“Visual character customization is better than it’s ever been.”

I would say that it is different, but not necessarily better. Your mileage may vary of course.

Unleashed.6195:

There is nothing magical about GW2’s persistence compared to GW1 in terms of game design. Take a city center and put mobs in it you can kill and you have the open world areas. Dungeons are still instanced. Want to remove heroes/henchmen from open world? That’s fine, nothing there requires a party outside of group events which don’t require a pre-made party to begin with.

In every way that’s crucially important, GW1 was an MMO. Your character persisted. You could trade with other players with that persistent character and know that their character was persisted under the same rules as yours. You could see many players in a city and interact with them.

I’m not really advocating for a second profession per character though, easy enough to live without that, but it will be nice to see a new set of abilities released per class and much better balance in terms of group utility in PvE/PvP OR the return of henchmen so you can get rid of the need to be optimal rather than just viable.

Being “niche” funded a massive company that was able to fund development of GW2 over several years. Solving skill bloat, balance issues and new user overload can all be done while still incorporating things that made GW1 unique and incredible.

One of the major differences between Guild Wars 1 and Guild Wars 2 as far as being an MMO has to do with the composition of parties in the open world.

You simply can’t have tons of parties in the open world comprised of healers and rits and necros with minions, because stuff respawns and people solo without heroes. That alone makes the game significantly different. But there are other issues too.

Guild Wars 1 never had to deal with the challenges of having a hundred players on the screen at the same time in combat. There is no combat in outposts. The most players you had together at one time would have been 24 in a relatively big map in Alliance battles, or 12 in PvE in the Deep or Urgoz’s Warren.

So where condition damage stacking wasn’t quite as a big a deal in Guild Wars 1, here it’s quite negative, particularly in large events.

As for dungeons, it’s true instances are instances, but Anet has never focused on dungeons per se…and they still don’t. There are 8 dungeons and 1500 dynamic events over 26 zones. I’m pretty sure Anet is more focused on the open world than dugeons, one of the reasons I like this game.

At any rate, a game of this scope requires a bigger budget, which means niche won’t work. That is to say, making the game bigger with more updates requires funding and funding requires people. A niche game was never going to be in the cards for Guild Wars 2. And to appeal to the masses you have to make compromises.

The stuff Guild Wars 1 got away with 8 years ago, it would have never gotten away with in today’s climate. There’s far more competition, far more free to play games, far more expectation from multiplayer games.

Unleashed.6195:

In every way that’s crucially important, GW1 was an MMO.

You don’t think it’s “crucially important” that an MMO should feature Massively-Multiplayer Online gameplay?

I kinda do, personally.

What’s your favourite MMO? Counterstrike is pretty cool, isn’t it?

Vayne.8563:

One of the major differences between Guild Wars 1 and Guild Wars 2 as far as being ….stuff respawns and people solo without heroes. That alone makes the game significantly different. But there are other issues too.

This isn’t a matter of persistence, and neither design makes the other “not an MMO”. It does mean the open world as it stands wouldn’t work well with heroes/henchmen.

Vayne.8563:

Guild Wars 1 never had to deal with the challenges of having a hundred players on the screen at the same…… have been 24 in a relatively big map in Alliance battles, or 12 in PvE in the Deep or Urgoz’s Warren.

As you stated here though, this isn’t a shift in terms of whether or not it’s an MMO, it’s a shift in what sized groups will work when next to another. Culling still happens, instances still happen, it’s just now that the size is larger before it has to be engaged.

Vayne.8563:

As for dungeons, it’s true instances are instances, but Anet has never focused on dungeons per se…and they still don’t. There are 8 dungeons and 1500 dynamic events over 26 zones. I’m pretty sure Anet is more focused on the open world than dugeons, one of the reasons I like this game.

Every npc combat area was a dungeon in GW1. They may have been open fields. A castle. A city. But they were instanced dungeons you + others or you + heroes/hench completed. GW2 is an improvement in this regard. There is more open world emphasis which is excellent. It’s true that dungeons are not required, but they are where a good deal of the relatively difficult content lay in the game and are where you have some of your best opportunities for highest quality items, crafted goods and coins.

Vayne.8563:

At any rate, a game of this scope requires a bigger budget, which means niche won’t work. That is to say, making the game bigger with more updates requires funding and funding requires people. A niche game was never going to be in the cards for Guild Wars 2. And to appeal to the masses you have to make compromises.

This game’s development was funded by the success of that niche game (though perhaps incidentally, it’s impossible to know whether the purchase by NCSoft provided funds that didn’t exist or whether it simply provided a financial windfall/exit for founders and less risky financing for the future. Even still, NCSoft purchased them based on GW1’s success).

It’s also true that GW1’s scope was comparable in terms of content you could play and enjoy, and that they did just fine releasing several expansions. Sorry, but I just don’t see the benefit to political campaigns fueled by the cash shop being added as game content when you compare it against something like Factions, Nightfall or EotN.

Vayne.8563:

The stuff Guild Wars 1 got away with 8 years ago, it would have never gotten away with in today’s climate. There’s far more competition, far more free to play games, far more expectation from multiplayer games.

You’re right, it needs many of the improvements that exist in GW2. I don’t think that it’s a requirement that they give up what were some fundamental tenets and differences between GW1 and every other MMO that exists. GW1 was unique. It stood alone. There was WoW, AoC, Aion, Rift, Lineage 2, LotRO, SwtoR etc. etc. etc. to do what they do with their own brand of IP slathered on top. GW1 didn’t fit into those categories. Not because it wasn’t an MMO, but because they were brave enough to build an MMO that didn’t fit the template and stick to it.

Zones that shifted as you progressed in the story. Awesome. Can’t find a full party? No problem, remember that alt you leveled up and geared? Just add him as a party member and deck him out and you’re fine. Awesome. Want a new alt? No problem you can reach level 20 going through one of the 3 main story lines and bring your first level 20 along to help ease the way. Awesome.

I don’t see anything about what it did well that would make people say, “What? No thanks. I’d much rather play Lord of the Orcelves World Online XIII because it’s free to play and has minipets.”

GW2 is a good game. It’s a very good mostly template MMO (other than the writing… wth happened to the writing!?!?). It does some unique things very well (events/hearts for instance are an excellent way to move away from some of that feeling of “gather 10 boar kitten ”, and WvW seems very well done overall). It also no longer gets to place itself in a category on its own, and that’s a shame.

What’s not a shame, is that it could return to that category on its own without ruining all it does better than GW1.

Banquetto.9521:

Unleashed.6195:

In every way that’s crucially important, GW1 was an MMO.

You don’t think it’s “crucially important” that an MMO should feature Massively-Multiplayer Online gameplay?

I kinda do, personally.

What’s your favourite MMO? Counterstrike is pretty cool, isn’t it?

As fun as it is to quip with extended acronyms, maybe you can get into specifics as to what qualifies for “massive” and in what context? I mean, I somehow doubt the words multiplayer and online are what bother you, as those are pretty black and white. It is online. It is multiplayer.

So… massive? Massive where? Dungeons you have 5 people. Group events I’ve seen 50-60 show up. ZvZ in WvW I’ve seen maybe 120 or so at once. The vast majority of content however you usually are seeing < 10 people at a time in GW2, and certainly less than 50, especially with culling in mind.

Is it “30 people interacting at once in a combat zone that is open world, not instanced” that makes it massive? 25? Combat zone not a part of it?

It’s great that everyone can have an opinion and with those opinions take to defining acronyms to mean what they want, you know, defining scotsmen (look up no true scotsmen!). The reality is, MMO may be able to be used slightly more broadly.

When I say it was an MMO in every way that matters, I meant that: The world you inhabited changed with/without you. Players leveled, earned gear, sold things. Guilds chatted and completed content. Permanent change? Sometimes, but no more or less than GW2. (ZOMG, there is a huge beast terrorizing the countryside… again… swear I killed it a few times last week…). You could party up to complete content, trade with people in city zones where everyone could see one another. The world didn’t disappear when you quit, unlike Counter-Strike, Diablo III or whatever else you had in mind to toss out there.

The difference that seems to be the difference for you is the number of instances and quantity of people you can shove into each instance? Pretty weak dividing line imho.

Unleashed.6195:

It does some unique things very well (events/hearts for instance are an excellent way to move away from some of that feeling of "gather 10 boar kitten, and WvW seems very well done overall).

Actually, hearts get a strong feeling of “gather 10 boar kitten, kill 10 kitten and etc” quests.

GW1 on the other hand, didn’t have such quests. But it had good quests, in offline RPG style. Which made GW1 very good game.

I hope that the bright minds that remain (as their only bright minds can’t be those that left) have some plan to slowly reintroduce some of what made GW1 great that’s missing here.

If we see another six months to a year of content full of mini-games and temporary rewards, no massive continental expansion, new classes, new story line (please, please, please, change up how the writing is handled. Games don’t have to be award winning novel quality, but it shouldn’t be so bad as to make you laugh out loud in a bad way almost every time a character opens their mouths)… I just don’t see the point.

Break up the expansion into pieces, but don’t use the pieces as an excuse to never introduce content worthy of comparison. A release per month that totals an expansion is great. A release per month of meaningless mini-game filler and temporary dungeons is horrible.

I like to think I have given this game a fair shake. I have 8 level 80s, one 54. I’ve done the things I would do in other games. I’ve ignored what does not interest me, and that is becoming pretty much every update. Still, I log on everyday. I have hopes that someone will realize what a huge, nice world they have, and use it more. I have hope that someone realizes the lore, the world THEY created has untold stories far more compelling than Flying Steampunk Pirates, teen fad books, or Super NES. I think the character art, the art of the world is fantastic. Weapons and Armor.. not as much. Costumes, even less, given the limitations they have. I am beyond sick of DEs I’ve done 50 times, but have fun just roaming around the prettier areas doing mayhem on the local wildlife. So far the game is worth not giving up on.

I also find myself back in GW1 for several hours a day. I have fun there, just fun. No achievements, nothing I feel is forced upon me, no constant particle spam in town or out, its just relaxing. If I want to take a “daily” I do.. and can do it a week later if I feel like it. Always something to do, cause how I build my group determines how different I can make things. Rolling with an optimal hero group is very different than picking 5 melee and a couple monks. Dumb, but fun. Here I would be “not doing it right” and since I’m forced to pug with real players, be told I’m “not doing it right”. I’m not living in the past, I am having fun, in a fun game. With the exception of April Fools Terminator sillyness, I have yet to run into content in GW1 so out of place that it causes me to wonder “what the kitten were they thinking.”

Yes, it has less features than GW2. But.. I went to GW1 from Everquest2, with mounts, housing, ingame voip, mail, player vendors, crafting, etc etc, lots more MMO bling. But GW1 gameplay was worth losing that bling, and I played it and kept going back to it.

And I guess thats my downfall here. I guess I expected GW1 on steriods, GW1 with big MMO “bling”, I expected what I loved from GW1 would be here.. on a grander scale. I expected more of the options I had in a lot older MMOs.. a lot of graphical settings, options, saved templates for those options, ingame VOIP, more freedom with my UI, particle settings, so many of the things that are commonplace in much older games. I did not expect that most of the magic of GW1 would be tossed away and not replaced by anything comparable. I did WIK 14 times, and I’ve yet to find a story in GW2 I want to suffer through more than once.

I think, had I never played GW1, I would be more ok with this game. I still would not like the one size fits all options choices, or their insistence that I see their particle lightshows at full power, and I wouldnt like minigames, pop culture instances, platforming, all things I just never expected to become the main thrust of the game at times. I am a product of my expectations, and because of them, I am not nearly as happy with this game as I am with GW1.

Guild Wars 1

PROS:
-story driven content (you could not go to different zones unless you unlock them through the storyline)
-animated action cutscenes throughout the storyline.
-heroes which made the solo experience better without nerfing the difficulty of the game
- dynamic scaling of server’s districts letting people choose which one to join
- server change from US to Europe and vice-versa free of cost and without time limitations / restrictions
- full hard mode – missions, zones – unlocked through the story
- all gears available for buying with less to none crafting required, just some gathering/buying materials, also very low diversity
- free teleportation between towns
- no level or profession requirement for all weapons
- getting to max level in about 20h for a new player only though quests and storyline missions
- repeatable story missions
- looking for “run” (travel or mission)
- player to player trading
- LFG tool used also for trading
- guild hall
- no selling / buying taxes or armor repairs
- unlimited quest log

CONS:
- lack of jumping and movement while using skills
- predetermined routes available for exploring (you can’t go everywhere you want to)
- cash shop items only buy-able with real money
- guild members number low limit
- difficult to understand the skills mechanic and combinations
- no voice chat on any NPCs in the world, just text bubbles (few exceptions in EotN)
- no checkpoints inside instances – storyline, dungeons: a party wipe required a re-run of the whole instance (with very few exceptions)
- no trading post made the chat in major cities become a “street market yell”
- no mail system
- no guild specific activities

Guild Wars 2

PROS:
- open world freely to explore
- no limits on where to go
- underwater content
- jumping and moving while using skills
- dynamic events and heart quests
- storyline designed quite differently for each character up to a point.
- living stories content
- no quest log
- everyone can auto heal and resurrect others
- trade post and mail system
- cash shop items buyable with in-game money too
- no party required for most of the game
- guild members number limit a lot higher
- guild specific activities
- crafting plus other mini pvp games
- predetermined usable build (weapon skills) easy to unlock and learn
- checkpoints inside all instances – story missions or dungeons

CONS:
- too simple cutscenes in the storyline
- no LFG tool
- no player to player trade
- no party required for most of the game
- teleportation fees
- selling / buying taxes (TP listing fees) and armor repairs
- weapons have level requirement and are not equitable by all professions
- no repeatable story missions
- payable and time restricted server transfer from EU to US and vice-versa

Yeah, I like GW2 for a game by itself, but I’m really hoping for an -actual- GW2 to evolve from this game or come out on its own. I didn’t want Warhammer Online in Tyria, though I’m happy to play it for now until someone else does an actual GW2 or a better MMO template game appears.

You know that game guild wars 1 is still around, you can always go play it. With the amount of people complaining how guild wars 2 is not guild wars 1, you could form a giant guild together and enjoy the game till you grow old and die.

The fact that you are here complaining instead of playing the game you seem to be truly in love means there is something holding you back. Personally, I think the reason is that even though you are blinded by nostalgia you probably realize that deep down guild wars 1 did not age too well and your feelings for that game will not over come that. From your very specific complaints about the game, you could easily still enjoy the game but are unwilling to do so.

As a former guild wars 1 fan with gw1 being my first MMO type game (gw1 is a CoRPG), no MMORPG will ever beat the feeling of first logging into pre-searing ascalon in 2005, but that didn’t matter because I couldn’t play the game for longer than 15 minutes.

A lot of these guild war 2 is not guild wars 1 threads are simply a battle of emotions and finding bullet points to justify your emotional debate, because ultimately if you really like the game the way they claimed they would still be playing guild wars 1 and not here complaining.

Valid points from both sides and I feel GW 2 is a good game but it can be amazing.

Where can GW2 improve?
End game + risk/rewards – this is where the issue lies for me.

GW1 had several elite areas: UW, FOW, Deep, Urgoz, DOA.
Rich content and these were so much fun that people still ran them even 6 years after.
Each area also had good rewards, while most were still RNG dependent, yet still rewarding. Each mob had a chance to drop an ecto or a shard or a gem depeneding on the area u were at.

Trash mobs in GW1 elite areas = worth killing.
Trash mobs in GW2 dungeons = skip em, stealth past since crap drops

While GW2 has given guaranteed tokens at the end of dungeon, what do i do when i have a max armor set, do I want to run that dungeon any more?
No the tokens are absolutley rubbish, now i can trade them for ridiculous conversion rates for an exotic to forge 4 exotics to make 1g after the TP takes 15% cut…sigh

end game pve? Cof p1
I wont lie, i ran this dungeon many times over but I am bored of it.
And of all the remaining dungeons in the game

Why does Anet not bring these elite areas into the game?
With the new events sytems, the previous quests can easily be substituted for these areas.
Its been 1 year since launch and all we have encountered is 1 Elder Dragon….
Where are the remaining 5? Are you going to release them 1 every 2 years?
So I have to play this game for 12 years to fight of them?

Guild wars and no guild vs guild available is another troll btw…
No guild halls…

We want permanent content, that a player can repeat.
Also please stop with the annoyning account bound items. Any drops or items acquired by chests should be soul bound on use.

silvermember.8941:

You know that game guild wars 1 is still around, you can always go play it. With the amount of people complaining how guild wars 2 is not guild wars 1, you could form a giant guild together and enjoy the game till you grow old and die.

The fact that you are here complaining instead of playing the game you seem to be truly in love means there is something holding you back. Personally, I think the reason is that even though you are blinded by nostalgia you probably realize that deep down guild wars 1 did not age too well and your feelings for that game will not over come that. From your very specific complaints about the game, you could easily still enjoy the game but are unwilling to do so.

As a former guild wars 1 fan with gw1 being my first MMO type game (gw1 is a CoRPG), no MMORPG will ever beat the feeling of first logging into pre-searing ascalon in 2005, but that didn’t matter because I couldn’t play the game for longer than 15 minutes.

A lot of these guild war 2 is not guild wars 1 threads are simply a battle of emotions and finding bullet points to justify your emotional debate, because ultimately if you really like the game the way they claimed they would still be playing guild wars 1 and not here complaining.

If I could transfer my Norn to GW1, I would NOT be here. And that is the solid truth.

I agree with the OP. It seems they took everything that is bad from Guild Wars and improved upon it slightly for Guild Wars 2. At the same time they took everything that is great about Guild Wars and abandoned it completely. One step forward, two steps back.

OP do not bother replying to a few of the Super Fan Boys that Troll these forums and add their $0.005 Cents to every thread. They are GW2 Religious Fanatics that will never consider another thought that does not line up with their pre-established opinions. It’s like attempting to talk sense into a Suicide Bomber. It’s an impossible task. They believe that what they are doing is right, logical, and justified and cannot be convinced otherwise.

FYI most players aren’t living in Nostalgia and 6 Million Plus copies sold is more than a “niche”. That’s a fact, not a debate topic.

silvermember.8941:

You know that game guild wars 1 is still around, you can always go play it.

I’m really enjoying when I hear such “constructive” arguments! xD

I just don’t understand how some people react with “love it or leave it”, not thinking that perhaps improvements could be made to the game and make the current game, with its updated engine and improvements, even better than it is.

If they ported the graphics engine, different races and a few other small updates to GW1, and continue building expansions and new content for it afterwards I -would- go back. Seems it would be much easier to just make the changes here necessary to cover the most fundamental parts of what made GW1 great.

Theplayboy.6417:

OP do not bother replying to a few of the Super Fan Boys that Troll these forums and add their $0.005 Cents to every thread. They are GW2 Religious Fanatics that will never consider another thought that does not line up with their pre-established opinions. It’s like attempting to talk sense into a Suicide Bomber. It’s an impossible task. They believe that what they are doing is right, logical, and justified and cannot be convinced otherwise.

Well said. But, on the other hand, have a chance to tell developers, who is obviously reading topics, how we are disappointed and how they fooled us, when they promised one thing, and gave us another….
Personally I don’t mind to show developers what I’m thinking about them and what they are doing, how they betrayed us, GW1 funs by saying “we took everything you loved in gw1 and blah-blah-blah”.

I’d say, that ArenaNet took GW1 from us, and make completely different game, not a sequel, but a truly different game, for another, more wider audience. It’s a business, they don’t care about us. I don’t believe they do. I’m not a child, I understand that it’s a business, nothing personal.

It might sound pretty harsh, but that’s what I think, because many things which AN were promised, haven’t implemented yet and who knows, will they do it or not.

I bought gw2 because ArenaNet promised things which I don’t see in the game. They fooled me.

Unleashed.6195:

If the new medium armor aether set wasn’t so perfect for an engineer (minus the helm), I’d have protested by never buying it again once I realized it was single use per item. $10 for one set of armor restyle…. ugh.

You can continue to transmute the armor onto new sets as you level or if you want to change the stats of the armor. You just need a supply of yellow stones (level 79 or lower) or silver crystals (level 80). Both are given out as rewards for dailies and map completion or can be bought from the gem store by exchanging a few gold for gems.

Unleashed.6195:

I just don’t understand how some people react with “love it or leave it”, not thinking that perhaps improvements could be made to the game and make the current game, with its updated engine and improvements, even better than it is.

If they ported the graphics engine, different races and a few other small updates to GW1, and continue building expansions and new content for it afterwards I -would- go back. Seems it would be much easier to just make the changes here necessary to cover the most fundamental parts of what made GW1 great.

First of all, GW1 is a DEAD game! Yes you can still play it, in pve with heroes, but it doesn’t mean that GW1 is alive. Developers left it, almost all players left it. GW1 is a ghost ship right now.

Second of all, we SPENT MONEY to purchase the game, because we was promised that we will have all things which we love in GW1. But…. we were fooled.

Why we have stats on armor? What, armors without any bonus stats in GW1, was that bad?
Why don’t we have npc, who can register our style, so it would be allowed for all account. After that we just can get style from that npc, umpteenth time, just like in gw1 or like with HoM rewards? And so on and etc.

Guild Wars 2 has so much little tricks, which make playing more complicating than it was in GW1. It’s a business, they don’t actually care about us, it’s just a business.

tolunart.2095:

You can continue to transmute the armor onto new sets as you level or if you want to change the stats of the armor. You just need a supply of yellow stones (level 79 or lower) or silver crystals (level 80). Both are given out as rewards for dailies and map completion or can be bought from the gem store by exchanging a few gold for gems.

In other words, just like I’ve just toled, GW2 has many tricks which make playing in this game more complicating than it was in GW1.

The trouble with this is that I want to keep both armors. I don’t want to lose a zerker set for a knights or settlers set. In order to have zerker, knight and settler with the skin, it has to be purchased 3 times, even if I only want 1 piece, say a chest piece, of different stats configurations.

Saelune.5316:

Also, I started playing GW1 recently. Its good, sure, but Im quickly reminded what I love about GW2…its different. GW1 is a generic MMO

Wut. GW2 is far closer to a generic MMO than GW1 was in every sense of the word. Static skills, identical crafting system, lack of hybrid classes, forced partying, etc, etc. In fact, the focal point of the original post, the lack of ability to create and customize your own NPC party is a huge part of what makes GW2 MUCH more generic than GW1. You should really think about what words mean before you just blurt out nonsense.

Saelune.5316:

There isnt grinding in GW2

aha, pwaha, BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. Kid, Grind Wars 2 didn’t earn its nickname for nothing. lololol…I can’t believe you actually said that. There is no context in the world that would make that statement even remotely accurate.

But since you’re maintaining that ridiculous “no grinding in gw2” stance, answer me this. How do you get an ascended back slot without grinding?

250 T6 rare mats? 1,850 fractal tokens? Oops, both grinding.

Go on, tell me the other non-grinding means of obtaining BiS gear for the back. Surely I’ve forgotten the non grinding option. I’ll wait.

Kreslin.6832:

tolunart.2095:

You can continue to transmute the armor onto new sets as you level or if you want to change the stats of the armor. You just need a supply of yellow stones (level 79 or lower) or silver crystals (level 80). Both are given out as rewards for dailies and map completion or can be bought from the gem store by exchanging a few gold for gems.

In other words, just like I’ve just toled, GW2 has many tricks which make playing in this game more complicating than it was in GW1.

It’s a completely different game. Computer technology changes and improves over time, so it’s common for sequels to games to be much different from the original. I go back and play older games now and then, if you look at Skyrim and compare it to Morrowind or earlier games in the series it hardly looks like they have anything in common. Even Dragon Age: Origins and Dragon Age II are very different games, despite being developed close together and having a similar look, the game interface is completely different and the stories are unrelated.

Unleashed.6195:

The trouble with this is that I want to keep both armors. I don’t want to lose a zerker set for a knights or settlers set. In order to have zerker, knight and settler with the skin, it has to be purchased 3 times, even if I only want 1 piece, say a chest piece, of different stats configurations.

HoM and achievement point reward skins work this way, perhaps in the future there will be more options like them.

Teofa Tsavo.9863:

If I could transfer my Norn to GW1, I would NOT be here. And that is the solid truth.

That is like saying IF I could have played 10, 13, 14, 22, 52 and 11, I would have won the 600 million dollar powerball, unfortunately I did not, so it doesn’t matter.

Kreslin.6832:

silvermember.8941:

You know that game guild wars 1 is still around, you can always go play it.

I’m really enjoying when I hear such “constructive” arguments! xD

I love how you are attempting to be clever?, but you fail to realize that is I don’t NEED to make any constructive argument because I am in fact happy with the game as it is ( I might have some issue, but they are not related to gw1) and ones that are whining which would be your camp, are the ones who to make any argument or not. Ultimately, all this whining wont suddenly make gw2 gw1.

silvermember.8941:

..and ones that are whining which would be your camp, are the ones who to make any argument or not. Ultimately, all this whining wont suddenly make gw2 gw1.

Constructive suggestions about how to incorporate excellent elements of a company’s previous product into their current product, a product named after the previous product in fact, with a 2 on the end of that name, does not constitute whining.

No one is looking for an outright copy of GW1. If we were, we would just play GW1. We’re looking for key elements of the Guild Wars franchise that made it unique to be present here. If it had been named World of Guild Wars, you would see less threads like these. It would be clear the intent was not a sequel but a new game in the same universe. Instead, it’s Guild Wars 2. It implies something about the product, something that is missing currently.

You disagree and that’s great. No problem. However, every opinion you disagree with is not whining.

silvermember.8941:

I love how you are attempting to be clever?, but you fail to realize that is I don’t NEED to make any constructive argument because I am in fact happy with the game as it is

So you admit you are just whining about people making constructive comments about the game, then? Since you say you are not saying anything constructive…

Erasculio.2914:

silvermember.8941:

I love how you are attempting to be clever?, but you fail to realize that is I don’t NEED to make any constructive argument because I am in fact happy with the game as it is

So you admit you are just whining about people making constructive comments about the game, then? Since you say you are not saying anything constructive…

The thing is from your very sig we cant trust any thing you say because your views are so one sided that EVERYTHING you say is going to be nothing more then that view point.
Simply put if your posting there is going to be nothing constructive said.

Look at it this way you could just post your name and your sig and everyone knows your point of view. Every thing else you say is pointless because you already said what you think of GW2 but you insist on pushing your views on other ppl.

Jski.6180:

Erasculio.2914:

silvermember.8941:

I love how you are attempting to be clever?, but you fail to realize that is I don’t NEED to make any constructive argument because I am in fact happy with the game as it is

So you admit you are just whining about people making constructive comments about the game, then? Since you say you are not saying anything constructive…

The thing is from your very sig we cant trust any thing you say because your views are so one sided that EVERYTHING you say is going to be nothing more then that view point.

Right, so you admit you are just whining about people making constructive comments about the game, and that you are not even bothering to read said constructive comments due to assuming you already know everything they would say?