Guild Wars 2

GW2: Zerg based and classical farming

• You follow huge zergs in Dragon and one-time events and press “1” every few minutes (the rest of the time spent tabbed out browsing)
• You walk around the map collecting orichalcum
• If you want some specific skins, difficult dungeons with boring and one-shot mechanisms (Fractals are an improvement though)

GW1: Skill based farming

• Endgame consisting of UW/FoW requires team coordination and skill, plus being familiar with the areas
• Dungeons were more fun and enjoyable, while still requiring some skill
• Running people to certain areas required some skill and being familiar with the zone (Droknar runners, Ascalon to LA, later dungeons runners, vanquishing zones for other people etc)
• Even 55 monk farming and other forms of solo and duo farming required skill, and certainly much more skill than zerg “1” farming or walking to orichalcum

“Some” skill in Droknar runs? Maybe when they first started it. Man, it got nightmarish once they started piling enemies in there with tons of enchant removals and speed debuffs/CCs.

One thing I really missed from GW1 that I completely forgot about before I went back to play it is that when you were attacked by monsters, it didn’t slow you down at all. Unlike GW2, where if anything touches you your character suddenly decides they just can’t concentrate on putting one foot in front of the other anymore.

Farming in GW1 was… fun. GW2, it’s just competing with people over tags. In GW1 you actually had to know what you were doing. If you carefully pulled one mob at a time, sure, it was never a problem. But if you were trying to farm efficiently, you had to intentionally aggro tons of enemies and try to fight them all off at the same time. That was incredibly satisfying. Riposte-ing griffons was hilarious. 55ing was considered cheating up until everyone realized how difficult it could be, especially when a single packet drop combined with getting too aggressive could mean losing your skill chain.

Good game. GW2? Too easy, too accessible, too simplified.

I think farming in GW2 could be a lot more fun if they just stuck to their philosophy that seeing another player shouldn’t be a bad thing. Right now events just do not scale properly for large groups of people. That was a complaint in beta and it’s still a complaint today.

If they really can’t find a solution to the event scaling then they need to find a way to limit the amount of people doing an event. Maybe break into an overflow server if too many people are in one place on the map?

I’ve stated this multiple time but I always got flamed by GW2 fanboys. I too say that the way you acquire gold in GW2 is simply stupid.

Not only was GW1 farming skill based. It was rewarding too. You basically get nowhere by farming in GW2. Easy example is today’s case. You farm hours upon hours to get your gold, while someone else attends a 2 hour long event and gets 200g gifted to them in a form of a precursor. Yeah, byebye.

I remember farming Feathers from Tengu for my first level 20 gear on my Warrior outside of LA.

Then, once I got Factions, I found a better Tengu farming area, and I farmed there on my Rt/Me using a Vengeful Was Khanhei build.

Hehe, good times.

stayBlind.7849:

I remember farming Feathers from Tengu for my first level 20 gear on my Warrior outside of LA.

Then, once I got Factions, I found a better Tengu farming area, and I farmed there on my Rt/Me using a Vengeful Was Khanhei build.

Hehe, good times.

I never farmed but would invest in the economy. The economy back then made freakin SENSE this one is so much like the stock market that it gives me a headache.
I bought magic find stuff today so I have around 112 and w/ a boost its 142. I HATE THIS FORM OF FARMING

Same. You can run around being awesome. Or you can run around dressed in your underwear with 140% magic find and hope to stumble upon one of the new minipets with 0.000000000000001% drop chance.

TSLlol.4879:

Not only was GW1 farming skill based. It was rewarding too. You basically get nowhere by farming in GW2. Easy example is today’s case. You farm hours upon hours to get your gold, while someone else attends a 2 hour long event and gets 200g gifted to them in a form of a precursor. Yeah, byebye.

Yea, that made me stop farming in GW2 (and playing as well). Someone who just attended a braindead event, was pressing nothing but “1” and was mostly AFK, could get 200g. Just like that. Just by being there. And I should waste my time with boring farming? Not gonna happen.

I never felt cheated when playing GW1.

But in GW1 it was mostly you can be pure solo if you wanted to any time so you would have your own zone and not have to deal with any one heck you even had npc teams so there was no need to play with other humans. That what keeped me from playing GW1 when it first came out.

I personally did enjoy farming more in Guild Wars, Solo UW farm builds with my warrior for ectos.. and trying to stay alive on my 55 monk in other zones since they added more degen mobs.. Good times

Farming here feels more like a chore than it use too granted I suppose it is anyway but didn’t feel that way in GW1 least I never thought of it as one.

drop rates have NOT increased they are still the same notably off of champs/vets.

It’s like either they have serious issues with this mechanic and they are bugging it by manipulating it, or they are manipulating the drop rates so that people might be more inclined to make gem purchases for gold exhange, if it’s the second one then they are lying to us about the drop rates increasing on vets/champs because it’s seriously NOT happening.

I’ve come to realise that I really miss my FoWSC and UWSC.

You could pick an area/profession and go off and do it. It was team effort but you could really slot into almost any role that you felt in the mood for and it was diverse.

Glf T1, T2, MoP, EoE, 100b/VoS, UA to go FOWSC

I have to agree that huge zerg farms end up being a frustrating race to get your aoe off before everything is dead while at the same time hoping you managed to do enough damage. But that is a rather difficult one to find a solution for, some classes will always have an advantage over others and some people will always be a little bit faster than the rest.

However in GW1 zergs where not possible and farming was always done in smaller groups or alone so that makes it a bit tricky to compare.

GW1 farming = going on build wiki, copy/pasting a build then googling for the farm video.

It was just as boring.

ref.8196:

GW1 farming = going on build wiki, copy/pasting a build then googling for the farm video.

It was just as boring.

Heh yeah, but farming with builds from pvx + youtube vids was sort of driving your car by looking in the rearview mirror instead of finding your own challenges.

FoW/UW/DoA speedclears were fun, even with set builds. Solofarming, starting with adjusting wikibuilds to your own personal flavour was moderate fun, making your own builds for the areas YOU wanted to explore farming potential was pure win!

Builds in GW2 are really, REALLY limited in choice compared to GW. Areas seem ok – You need to explore and you CAN find a few rewarding spots, but the amazing build variety of GW is simply not there and the few social farming spots get nerfed faster than any bot-invasion.
The message seems to be: Accept, adapt and run FotM or run the H. away…

A bit sad really :-(

ref.8196:

GW1 farming = going on build wiki, copy/pasting a build then googling for the farm video.

It was just as boring.

Exactly, too many people with rose tinted glasses waxing nostalgia.

Halandir.3609:

ref.8196:

GW1 farming = going on build wiki, copy/pasting a build then googling for the farm video.

It was just as boring.

Heh yeah, but farming with builds from pvx + youtube vids was sort of driving your car by looking in the rearview mirror instead of finding your own challenges.

FoW/UW/DoA speedclears were fun, even with set builds. Solofarming, starting with adjusting wikibuilds to your own personal flavour was moderate fun, making your own builds for the areas YOU wanted to explore farming potential was pure win!

Builds in GW2 are really, REALLY limited in choice compared to GW. Areas seem ok – You need to explore and you CAN find a few rewarding spots, but the amazing build variety of GW is simply not there and the few social farming spots get nerfed faster than any bot-invasion.
The message seems to be: Accept, adapt and run FotM or run the H. away…

A bit sad really :-(

Finding farming builds for other areas was fun. Farming them was not fun. Most of the work is tinkering with the build and method and not actually farming. Some may find that fun, most don’t (I did).

Porting to temple of the ages after a 2 or so year break and seeing “Glf T1, T2, MoP, EoE, 100b/VoS, UA to go FOWSC” doesn’t make things enjoyable though. That’s why GW2 is better in that respect, you don’t need a certain build, and you don’t even really need to know much, you just have to use your brain when you get there. I don’t mind taking randoms, I don’t care what build they have, as long as they can use their brain and follow simple instructions.

ref.8196:

Halandir.3609:

ref.8196:

GW1 farming = going on build wiki, copy/pasting a build then googling for the farm video.

It was just as boring.

Heh yeah, but farming with builds from pvx + youtube vids was sort of driving your car by looking in the rearview mirror instead of finding your own challenges.

FoW/UW/DoA speedclears were fun, even with set builds. Solofarming, starting with adjusting wikibuilds to your own personal flavour was moderate fun, making your own builds for the areas YOU wanted to explore farming potential was pure win!

Builds in GW2 are really, REALLY limited in choice compared to GW. Areas seem ok – You need to explore and you CAN find a few rewarding spots, but the amazing build variety of GW is simply not there and the few social farming spots get nerfed faster than any bot-invasion.
The message seems to be: Accept, adapt and run FotM or run the H. away…

A bit sad really :-(

Finding farming builds for other areas was fun. Farming them was not fun. Most of the work is tinkering with the build and method and not actually farming. Some may find that fun, most don’t (I did).

Porting to temple of the ages after a 2 or so year break and seeing “Glf T1, T2, MoP, EoE, 100b/VoS, UA to go FOWSC” doesn’t make things enjoyable though. That’s why GW2 is better in that respect, you don’t need a certain build, and you don’t even really need to know much, you just have to use your brain when you get there. I don’t mind taking randoms, I don’t care what build they have, as long as they can use their brain and follow simple instructions.

Fair enough. Once you “found the (your) key” the farming itself was not amazing.
The SC’s could still be fun though and getting gear and runes for a Tx or whatever was never a grind.

Kudos to you for running with teams where social skills seem more important than the geargrinding abilities. I guess I am unfortunate because all I saw in LA when I last logged in a few days ago was:

LFG: Fotm 6
lfg FotM:9
lfg fotm 9 4/5
LfG FOTM level 4 – dont be necro!!!

I cursed a little to myself… then just logged off.

I made money for HoM by doing Nicks gift, royal gifts,and Zkeys only. Wish I had something similar here… not something to make a lot of easy money just something that was steady and enough to get an exotic set per week.

Edit
RNG does not equal steady. nicks gifts were a bit RNG but it wasn’t too bad.

Halandir.3609:

ref.8196:

Halandir.3609:

ref.8196:

GW1 farming = going on build wiki, copy/pasting a build then googling for the farm video.

It was just as boring.

Heh yeah, but farming with builds from pvx + youtube vids was sort of driving your car by looking in the rearview mirror instead of finding your own challenges.

FoW/UW/DoA speedclears were fun, even with set builds. Solofarming, starting with adjusting wikibuilds to your own personal flavour was moderate fun, making your own builds for the areas YOU wanted to explore farming potential was pure win!

Builds in GW2 are really, REALLY limited in choice compared to GW. Areas seem ok – You need to explore and you CAN find a few rewarding spots, but the amazing build variety of GW is simply not there and the few social farming spots get nerfed faster than any bot-invasion.
The message seems to be: Accept, adapt and run FotM or run the H. away…

A bit sad really :-(

Finding farming builds for other areas was fun. Farming them was not fun. Most of the work is tinkering with the build and method and not actually farming. Some may find that fun, most don’t (I did).

Porting to temple of the ages after a 2 or so year break and seeing “Glf T1, T2, MoP, EoE, 100b/VoS, UA to go FOWSC” doesn’t make things enjoyable though. That’s why GW2 is better in that respect, you don’t need a certain build, and you don’t even really need to know much, you just have to use your brain when you get there. I don’t mind taking randoms, I don’t care what build they have, as long as they can use their brain and follow simple instructions.

Fair enough. Once you “found the (your) key” the farming itself was not amazing.
The SC’s could still be fun though and getting gear and runes for a Tx or whatever was never a grind.

Kudos to you for running with teams where social skills seem more important than the geargrinding abilities. I guess I am unfortunate because all I saw in LA when I last logged in a few days ago was:

LFG: Fotm 6
lfg FotM:9
lfg fotm 9 4/5
LfG FOTM level 4 – dont be necro!!!

I cursed a little to myself… then just logged off.

Yeah I don’t really know about the fotm levels…a dungeon group finder would solve this issue (since the higher skill levels are not necessarily related to skill)

Cancer.9065:

I made money for HoM by doing Nicks gift, royal gifts,and Zkeys only. Wish I had something similar here… not something to make a lot of easy money just something that was steady and enough to get an exotic set per week.

Edit
RNG does not equal steady. nicks gifts were a bit RNG but it wasn’t too bad.

Nick’s gifts were also usually sold unopened on the idea “you COULD get a Mini Yakkington!” or whatever people were really after. For me it was Party Animal points but I would always balk at “Nic Gifts for 750g each!” when I could look up what he wanted and where he was before getting it myself.

Me? I sold dyes I had the most interesting number of Dye drops every UW run. I think one time I got a white and a black (and two yellow) but no Ectoplasm.

And I’d rather not have that exact type of thing added here. For one, the only things which might be comparable to the trophies Nick wanted are the grey trash drops and making it rely on them is . . . about as random as relying on some Rare/Exotic drop like “Large Skull”. Or Slivers/Fragments/etc.

Scavenger hunts, however, I’d be on board for. They did say they had them planned, hope they’re interesting enough.

The idea behind buying the gifts is that you could get more than the account maximum per week (or was it per day?). If I remember, your account was limited to only getting 5 per week.

Merthax.5172:

The idea behind buying the gifts is that you could get more than the account maximum per week (or was it per day?). If I remember, your account was limited to only getting 5 per week.

Yes, true, but people weren’t buying the gifts to hoard as a commodity . . .

. . . okay, MOST people weren’t. I’m reminded of a guildmate who did just that for a couple weeks :P

Anyway, they bought the gifts to open them in the hopes what they wanted would be inside. Instead, I got a rock (Mysterious Summoning Stones, I still have 243 I think and I USED them all the time).

Amlin.6041:

ref.8196:

GW1 farming = going on build wiki, copy/pasting a build then googling for the farm video.

It was just as boring.

Exactly, too many people with rose tinted glasses waxing nostalgia.

How is it rose tinted?

GW2 farming: press “1” and semi-afk.

GW1 farming: even if you go to PvX you NEED to be skilled to pull off many farming styles. Yea, you go to PvX to find Droknar run build and then what? Nothing. Because you need skill to pull it out. You need to know the area, timing, practice etc. And even then, you can die. In GW2, you can’t die.

—

I hear people mentioning PvX as if it makes GW1 equal in skill to GW2. Many guilds in GvG used same skill sets as top guilds. You would think these guilds would rise up the charts after using “top skillbars” but that did not happen.

I used to post many builds in the forum back in the day and there would still be a huge difference between me playing the build and others, because I suited the build to my own playstyle ways, I knew why each skill was there and not some other.

—

Let’s say a Monk takes the build from PvX? What then? Nothing if he doesn’t know how to play it. In GW2? You just press “1”. And not even that if you’re running orichalcum.

—

And if GW1 has PvX, GW2 has it built-in. You get weapon sets.

In GW2 I farm only by doing mat runs in Orr. I don’t run past mobs, and often hop in to events I see so it probably takes me a lot longer than other people. Eventually I get tired of dodging CC (or not dodging it in some cases) in 90% of the fights so I quit. Event farming just doesn’t do it for me, so I don’t. After gearing my third 80 yesterday, I still have 60 to 70 gold. None of the 80’s have superior rune sets, so I still have a ways to go.

While I don’t hate mat runs in Orr, I would not be doing them if I didn’t want the money. In GW1 I did things to get money also, but I chose the things that I enjoyed doing, so farming was not a chore, it was playing the game. In GW2, it feels like just playing the game does not net you the money needed for gearing up, so you have to farm mats, farm events w/ magic find (without it, the drops don’t generate tons of income) or maybe (before FotM, anyway) farm AC.

I’m hoping that Chris Whiteside’s blog about reviewing the incentives in other areas of play provides more options.

In GW1 I played over 6000 hours and farmed a lot of stuff cause I wanted to.
In GW2 I didn’t make it to even 600 hours because I feel I have to farm and do it only where Anet wants me to do it.

This difference is there because all gear in GW1 was the same level. So you could choose where to farm and what for. Even if it wasn’t efficient, it didn’t matter because it didn’t put you at a disadvantage.

That is the main difference for me.

Ianervan.3415:

Amlin.6041:

ref.8196:

GW1 farming = going on build wiki, copy/pasting a build then googling for the farm video.

It was just as boring.

Exactly, too many people with rose tinted glasses waxing nostalgia.

How is it rose tinted?

GW2 farming: press “1” and semi-afk.

GW1 farming: even if you go to PvX you NEED to be skilled to pull off many farming styles. Yea, you go to PvX to find Droknar run build and then what? Nothing. Because you need skill to pull it out. You need to know the area, timing, practice etc. And even then, you can die. In GW2, you can’t die.

—

I hear people mentioning PvX as if it makes GW1 equal in skill to GW2. Many guilds in GvG used same skill sets as top guilds. You would think these guilds would rise up the charts after using “top skillbars” but that did not happen.

I used to post many builds in the forum back in the day and there would still be a huge difference between me playing the build and others, because I suited the build to my own playstyle ways, I knew why each skill was there and not some other.

—

Let’s say a Monk takes the build from PvX? What then? Nothing if he doesn’t know how to play it. In GW2? You just press “1”. And not even that if you’re running orichalcum.

—

And if GW1 has PvX, GW2 has it built-in. You get weapon sets.

Why should farming require skill?

ref.8196:

Why should farming require skill?

It tends to be less boring if you have to pay attention to what you’re doing.

Gehenna.3625:

In GW1 I played over 6000 hours and farmed a lot of stuff cause I wanted to.
In GW2 I didn’t make it to even 600 hours because I feel I have to farm and do it only where Anet wants me to do it.

This difference is there because all gear in GW1 was the same level. So you could choose where to farm and what for. Even if it wasn’t efficient, it didn’t matter because it didn’t put you at a disadvantage.

That is the main difference for me.

Ehh, in my opinion the difference was there because there was less complexity in the game and what the grind/farm (I’ll use that since it’s hard to be sure if it’s a grind or a farm, I’m getting fuzzier on the meaning) could get you. Generally it wasn’t materials . . . it was straight-up cash or things to transform into cash.

(Or it was title track points. Which was a heck of a lot more grind-y than going out to farm/grind for cash. There are ways to do it faster but it still takes A WHILE.)

I farmed in GW1 as it was all that was left to do for me I hit Legendary Guardian, Legendary Cartographer, Legendary Skill Hunter and after that anything more was going to be a grind or a farm.

If I’m doing it in GW2 it’s for basically the same reason. I hit my 100% Map Completion and stalled out on my Personal Story since it’s in Orr now and I overdosed on Risen doing the completion.

Gehenna.3625:

ref.8196:

Why should farming require skill?

It tends to be less boring if you have to pay attention to what you’re doing.

. . . less boring, yes, still very monotonous. Also, it required skill because most of the skill-less “auto farm” techniques were being actively quashed by ANet’s balancing team.

(And you’d better believe there was crap about that too.)

ref.8196:

Why should farming require skill?

Because skilled activities should be more rewarding than braindead activities.
Because being creative is good.
Because thinking and being awake is good.

Farming should not require skill in itself. But skilled farming should be much, much more effective than braindead farming. Instead of being the same.

But you’re not -supposed- to be farming in this game! farming is some kind of grind and ew, we all hate grinds! Why don’t they just give everyone a button that they can press which gives your character 100 gold? No grind involved, other than pressing a button…ugh, but then you’d have to press the button 4 times to make a legendary. What a grind!

Lifelike.5862:

But you’re not -supposed- to be farming in this game! farming is some kind of grind and ew, we all hate grinds! Why don’t they just give everyone a button that they can press which gives your character 100 gold? No grind involved, other than pressing a button…ugh, but then you’d have to press the button 4 times to make a legendary. What a grind!

You’re trying to be ironic but yes, I could play a game where there is no farming. As a matter of fact it’s the type of games I play. I don’t farm even in GW (I did a small bit), because I consider it unworthy of human beings, and completely degrading to the state of mind.

But since vast majority of people love farming and the idea that they’re better than someone else purely because of time invested, there is farming in this game and many other online games.

That’s not what this thread is about so stop derailing it. It’s not about farming vs non farming, it’s about GW1 farming and GW2 farming.

Also, see my signature.

Ianervan.3415:

But since vast majority of people love farming and the idea that they’re better than someone else purely because of time invested, there is farming in this game and many other online games.

Also, see my signature.

Cute signature.

I don’t think that’s why there’s farming in this game, I barely think of it as farming in this game. I get on, I do my list for Daily Achievements, collect my Jug and Mystic Coin . . . and decide if I feel like hanging around. Some days I don’t even bother (like lately where I just haven’t had the energy).

But for the sake of argument, call it farming. I vary it up enough through different areas that I keep it interesting. One day, Queensdale. Next day I do Metrica Province, maybe. Or Plains of Ashford. Maybe the guild mates are waiting on the Claw of Jormag because they want to do it together so I go to Frostgorge Sound and do my Daily there.

(Actually, that was pretty fun since as I showed up they pointed out the Ori node and when the next guy showed up I added an Ancient Wood and Snow Truffles to the notes.)

So, I don’t know. Can you consider that the kind of farming bad for the game?

Ianervan.3415:

GW1: Skill based farming

• Endgame consisting of UW/FoW requires team coordination and skill, plus being familiar with the areas
• Dungeons were more fun and enjoyable, while still requiring some skill

i stopped taking this post seriously after these 2 points.

farming UW and FOW were soloable by many builds, which only required precision timing, and that can be easily learned once you do it a few times.

as for dungeons, they require no less skill than GW2 dungeons, after all, EOTN was a preparation to move on to GW2.

RapidSausage.4620:

farming UW and FOW were soloable by many builds, which only required precision timing, and that can be easily learned once you do it a few times.

Wait, hold on. Are you seriously claiming that FoW and UW were as easy as pressing “1” in GW2 during dragon world events or one-time events or pressing “F” when running orichalcum?

I am not claiming that GW1 was rocket science, but come on, people were even selling services to help others aquire black widow spiders. Did you ever hear anyone type “paying someone to help me kill Jormag”?

Ianervan.3415:

RapidSausage.4620:

farming UW and FOW were soloable by many builds, which only required precision timing, and that can be easily learned once you do it a few times.

Wait, hold on. Are you seriously claiming that FoW and UW were as easy as pressing “1” in GW2 during dragon world events or one-time events or pressing “F” when running orichalcum?

I am not claiming that GW1 was rocket science, but come on, people were even selling services to help others aquire black widow spiders. Did you ever hear anyone type “paying someone to help me kill Jormag”?

I heard a frustrated voice once saying they would offer 5 silver if someone could at least link a waypoint near Teaquatl. But that’s about the closest.

Also, apples and oranges. The Underworld was pretty tough even if all you wanted was the spider. And you only get at most eight characters . . . Jormag is open and as many people can show up as the software can cram in there.

Which leads to . . . grrph . . . that lag and “culling”

Ianervan.3415:

Lifelike.5862:

But you’re not -supposed- to be farming in this game! farming is some kind of grind and ew, we all hate grinds! Why don’t they just give everyone a button that they can press which gives your character 100 gold? No grind involved, other than pressing a button…ugh, but then you’d have to press the button 4 times to make a legendary. What a grind!

You’re trying to be ironic but yes, I could play a game where there is no farming. As a matter of fact it’s the type of games I play. I don’t farm even in GW (I did a small bit), because I consider it unworthy of human beings, and completely degrading to the state of mind.

But since vast majority of people love farming and the idea that they’re better than someone else purely because of time invested, there is farming in this game and many other online games.

That’s not what this thread is about so stop derailing it. It’s not about farming vs non farming, it’s about GW1 farming and GW2 farming.

Also, see my signature.

Speaking of state of mind, you dislike farming for all the wrong reasons it seems.

An enjoyment that comes from farming is not necessarily to do with being ‘better’ than anyone or time investment. It’s the satisfaction that comes from working hard at a goal in order to procure results. There is a basic, simple pleasure that comes from gathering enough items to craft yourself something cool, which is a basic staple of game design from very early on that still holds strong today. Being able to think “I have a goal now, and I’ll progress with that one step at a time until I get what I want” is a driving factor in what compells players to collect, farm, and earn ‘points’ whether it be gold, items, cosmetics, gear or whatever.

Now, grinding in an MMO isn’t always about who gets the best gear fastest, so that poor, entitled time-lacking players don’t get jumped by those nasty grinders who put time and effort into earning their shiny rewards. It also can fulfill the ‘role playing’ aspect of an MMO too for people who are into that. If you remove that kind of grind from the game, you’re severely limiting people who like to play their characters as gatherers, craftsmen, and hunters. I mained the alchemist class in Ragnarok online solely for the reason that I got to brew potions and sell them to other players. The feeling of going out and hunting the materials required to craft a fresh set of Acid Bombs, then turning them into profit by playing the market is a pleasure that’s lost on this generation of gamers, apparently.

People who attribute the willingness to grind as some form of social ineptitude are, themselves, usually insecure about something. Most likely they don’t like the idea of being bested in ‘skill based’ gameplay by someone who has time and patience to put into something they believe is not a worthwhile cause. Last time I checked, patience and perseverence are just as valuable virtues as skill, and often go hand in hand. What happens when you encounter a player who is not only patient and diligent, but also insanely skilled and works a full time job? That whole ‘nerds vs natural talent’ point of view can fall flat in an instant when players like these, who truly love the game and are willing to sink their teeth into it out of passion, step up to the playing field.

GW1’s farming was a horrible, horrible thing.
Why? Because it as terribly easy, created lots of wealth for those who did it, and raised inflation insanely.
Either you farmed, or you could not afford to buy things from others.
Doing quest and missions and selling IDed items would get you about 2..10K per hour depending on where you where playing.
Farming could get you over 100K per hour if you also ‘traded’.
It happened for so long that people got so used to it that removing it would mean making tons of players unhappy. That’s why the stupid Shadow Form as barely touched too.

GW1 didn’t have an actual trading system (no matter how many people try to argue that, spamming in outposts or using third-party auction sites is not a trading system) and so for some people farming was the only alternate way to get some things.

Now we have a proper trade system, and a system in place that lets you get gems with coins.
Any kind of farming – ANY KIND – would allow players who farm to get more stuff than those who do not, and also cause inflation as they can get more and more wealth as they perfect farms.
This would force players who do not like to farm, to do just the opposite if they want to catch up with the rest.
That’s why any farming that is found must be nerfed ASAP. They took too long with that Plinx guy.

Now, things taking too long and people feeling like they need a farm to get anything, or ending up in ‘farms’ because other areas are slow, boring, frustrating and/or unrewarding is a different thing that is to be addressed too, because it happens.

But farms themselves should only happen in GW2 as node farms. For things like onions, and potatoes. Or maybe player-made farms as a part of housing.
That’ll be nice, planting your own onions, and potatoes…

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Gehenna.3625:

In GW1 I played over 6000 hours and farmed a lot of stuff cause I wanted to.
In GW2 I didn’t make it to even 600 hours because I feel I have to farm and do it only where Anet wants me to do it.

This difference is there because all gear in GW1 was the same level. So you could choose where to farm and what for. Even if it wasn’t efficient, it didn’t matter because it didn’t put you at a disadvantage.

That is the main difference for me.

Ehh, in my opinion the difference was there because there was less complexity in the game and what the grind/farm (I’ll use that since it’s hard to be sure if it’s a grind or a farm, I’m getting fuzzier on the meaning) could get you. Generally it wasn’t materials . . . it was straight-up cash or things to transform into cash.

(Or it was title track points. Which was a heck of a lot more grind-y than going out to farm/grind for cash. There are ways to do it faster but it still takes A WHILE.)

I farmed in GW1 as it was all that was left to do for me I hit Legendary Guardian, Legendary Cartographer, Legendary Skill Hunter and after that anything more was going to be a grind or a farm.

If I’m doing it in GW2 it’s for basically the same reason. I hit my 100% Map Completion and stalled out on my Personal Story since it’s in Orr now and I overdosed on Risen doing the completion.

I get confused about farming vs grind as well. The thing is though that I don’t mind grind so much as long as it’s not too much and taking my time in doing it doesn’t negatively affect me in the gameplay.

You say that at some point there wasn’t much left to do for you in GW1, but let me remind you that the main reason for that is that they started making GW2. 5 years ago they pulled the plug out of real content for GW1 for the benefit of creating GW2. We all sort of dealt with that and accepted that because we were told that GW2 would be a similar experience but better. Don’t blame the lack of things to do in GW1 on GW1, it really was because they diverted all their attention to building GW2 that this happened.

Sadly, GW2 isn’t what they promised it to be. At least that’s my view…although the new direction with gear is a fact that they didn’t keep their promise.

What gets me most is that even after this they have the gall to keep their manifesto video on their website. They could at least admit that their philosophy changed when it’s that obvious.

Gehenna.3625:

You say that at some point there wasn’t much left to do for you in GW1, but let me remind you that the main reason for that is that they started making GW2. 5 years ago they pulled the plug out of real content for GW1 for the benefit of creating GW2. We all sort of dealt with that and accepted that because we were told that GW2 would be a similar experience but better. Don’t blame the lack of things to do in GW1 on GW1, it really was because they diverted all their attention to building GW2 that this happened.

Sadly, GW2 isn’t what they promised it to be. At least that’s my view…although the new direction with gear is a fact that they didn’t keep their promise.

What gets me most is that even after this they have the gall to keep their manifesto video on their website. They could at least admit that their philosophy changed when it’s that obvious.

Well there wasn’t much left for me to do other than:
Filling the Valor Monument
Filling the Resilience Monument
Party, Sweets, Drunkard, Lucky/Unlucky, Treasure Hunter
. . . and PvP titles

That’s pretty much it. And I didn’t want to do any of that long enough to make progress.

And I don’t blame the lack of content in GW1 on GW2, I blame it on them not having good ideas for what to do next with the engine. They still managed to do pretty good with “Guild Wars Beyond”. I loved War in Kryta, Hearts of the North was a great character piece and it made me hate Gwen a little less . . . and Winds of Change was just . . . interesting. (I used ellipses there to try to illustrate awed speechlessness. I loved it but it was at the same time so hard for me to get through.)

They had content they put out, but I still wound up taking about a year off between War in Kryta and the GW2 release. I showed up for special events and a few guild events (UW through Dhuum, something we never managed because screw Smite Crawlers in their ghostly carapaces . . . and Domain of Anguish, which I never managed because screw Titans with whatever’s left after the Smite Crawlers. Both these things were absolute terrors for myself and my guild even after we had a way of dealing with them.)

And I won’t get into my opinion on this “manifesto” point people keep harping on. It’s not a popular opinion I have on it so let’s not get into it.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Gehenna.3625:

You say that at some point there wasn’t much left to do for you in GW1, but let me remind you that the main reason for that is that they started making GW2. 5 years ago they pulled the plug out of real content for GW1 for the benefit of creating GW2. We all sort of dealt with that and accepted that because we were told that GW2 would be a similar experience but better. Don’t blame the lack of things to do in GW1 on GW1, it really was because they diverted all their attention to building GW2 that this happened.

Sadly, GW2 isn’t what they promised it to be. At least that’s my view…although the new direction with gear is a fact that they didn’t keep their promise.

What gets me most is that even after this they have the gall to keep their manifesto video on their website. They could at least admit that their philosophy changed when it’s that obvious.

Well there wasn’t much left for me to do other than:
Filling the Valor Monument
Filling the Resilience Monument
Party, Sweets, Drunkard, Lucky/Unlucky, Treasure Hunter
. . . and PvP titles

That’s pretty much it. And I didn’t want to do any of that long enough to make progress.

And I don’t blame the lack of content in GW1 on GW2, I blame it on them not having good ideas for what to do next with the engine. They still managed to do pretty good with “Guild Wars Beyond”. I loved War in Kryta, Hearts of the North was a great character piece and it made me hate Gwen a little less . . . and Winds of Change was just . . . interesting. (I used ellipses there to try to illustrate awed speechlessness. I loved it but it was at the same time so hard for me to get through.)

They had content they put out, but I still wound up taking about a year off between War in Kryta and the GW2 release. I showed up for special events and a few guild events (UW through Dhuum, something we never managed because screw Smite Crawlers in their ghostly carapaces . . . and Domain of Anguish, which I never managed because screw Titans with whatever’s left after the Smite Crawlers. Both these things were absolute terrors for myself and my guild even after we had a way of dealing with them.)

And I won’t get into my opinion on this “manifesto” point people keep harping on. It’s not a popular opinion I have on it so let’s not get into it.

Well you can call the blue sky pink if you want to, but the fact is that they did stop putting work into GW2 and pulled people from GW1 to do it. If they ran out of ideas, ok but I think that was more of an excuse to explain the shift to GW2. The content you refer to that was added later was hardly new content. It was the best they could do with minimal resources, although I will say it wasn’t all bad. Just minimal and war in kryta was far better than the rest at that.

People keep bringing the manifesto up but that’s Anet’s own fault. I don’t even care what exactly they did or didn’t say in the sense that I mostly care that they said A and are now doing B. That means they have nothing to stop them when pressure comes. It’s a matter of spine and character. It’s not important if you agree with it or not, but it was Anet themselves setting themselves up for disaster when they make bold claims and at the first sign of trouble do a 180. That I find more disturbing than the actual direction they are taking with this game.

Gehenna.3625:

Well you can call the blue sky pink if you want to, but the fact is that they did stop putting work into GW2 and pulled people from GW1 to do it. If they ran out of ideas, ok but I think that was more of an excuse to explain the shift to GW2. The content you refer to that was added later was hardly new content. It was the best they could do with minimal resources, although I will say it wasn’t all bad. Just minimal and war in kryta was far better than the rest at that.

People keep bringing the manifesto up but that’s Anet’s own fault. I don’t even care what exactly they did or didn’t say in the sense that I mostly care that they said A and are now doing B. That means they have nothing to stop them when pressure comes. It’s a matter of spine and character. It’s not important if you agree with it or not, but it was Anet themselves setting themselves up for disaster when they make bold claims and at the first sign of trouble do a 180. That I find more disturbing than the actual direction they are taking with this game.

I would hardly classify Winds of Change as “minimal” . . . it seemed more impactful than War in Kryta, I just never finished it. As for “you can call the blue sky pink” . . . I will call it pink. At sunset or sunrise. When it’s pink. Don’t be snide, please.

Aaaand now you had to go and keep up with the manifesto stuff. (Sigh) I’ve heard the bits and pieces of quotes from the designers, and I read the manifesto. Again, freshly this time so I could see if I could spot the absolute “we will never ever do this we absolutely pinky-double-dog-swear” that people said they lied against.

I can’t seem to find it.

The closest that comes is this:

It doesn’t suck your life away and force you onto a grinding treadmill; it doesn’t make you spend hours preparing to have fun rather than just having fun; and of course, it doesn’t have a monthly fee.

Three criteria.
A – Force you onto a grinding treadmill.
B – Spend hours preparing to have fun rather than just having fun.
C – No monthly fee.

C is demonstrably still being kept, so it can’t be that one. Nobody can really prevent B from being false, since you probably do have hours to prepare making sure you have the free time to play later. Or maybe you spend hours reading up on stuff and studying what you want to do so you know what you’re in for. So, okay, they screwed up on B like everyone ever will from now until the end of time now that the Internet is here and the information is out there.

On A . . . yeah, I know this is the one that everyone loves to talk about. And everyone gets pedantic about what exactly these words mean, and whether they can be interpreted one way or another . . . and what the meaning of “onto” is. Thing is, there’s no more grind than I was doing in GW1. Slaver’s Exile was the second grindiest dungeon . . . is that a word? Screw it, I’ll make it one.

Slaver’s Exile was the second grindiest slog I’ve had to do in GW1 and the first was Domain of Anguish: Foundry of Failed Creations. I went to these places because they were hard, challenging, and I hadn’t done them yet. I ran myself at these things twice a week trying to figure out an edge with my play style. I briefly flirted with going to check for builds to run before I stopped myself and just gave up until the guild was doing it.

This isn’t any different from how I treated Fractals of the Mists. And the sad thing is, I don’t even need to do it, really. There’s cool rings and a piece to craft a back slot item which is neat, and it takes a ton of resources and time I don’t have. Guess what? Its shelved until I get bored enough with GW2 like I was with GW1 when I decided DoA and Slaver’s needed to get done. I don’t need the rings or back piece THAT badly. I’ll wait for the rest of the Ascended stuff to get released before judging whether or not I want to chase that (probably not, though).

. . . nobody is forcing me onto this path. Nobody is making me do Fractals or not do Fractals other than myself.

I’d say he kept point A.

Ianervan.3415:

ref.8196:

Why should farming require skill?

Because skilled activities should be more rewarding than braindead activities.
Because being creative is good.
Because thinking and being awake is good.

Farming should not require skill in itself. But skilled farming should be much, much more effective than braindead farming. Instead of being the same.

Yes I agree. But people should still be able to farm effectively without having any special knowledge/builds which GW1 really did require.

My post “not necessarily, exams are boring” got infracted. Perfectly legitimate counter example, I really don’t understand the moderating sometimes.