Guild Wars 2

I just wanted to make sure everyone saw Guild Wars 2 being featured in the Wall Street Journal today. Posted it to facebook as well, hope the Devs see this!

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887324665604579081030943142894.html#articleTabs%3Dcomments

… I grew up like 5-7 years too soon.

Congrats Guild Wars 2
and
Congrats kids of this generation

About time we started doing this in schools.

Angry birds as a learning tool for physics sounds excellent.

The description of GW2 as a tool on the other hand sounded like sloppy/lazy teaching. I wonder where the funds for buying copies of the game came from.

I thought Language Arts was a strange choice for it to be sure, but I’m a huge advocate for video games as a learning tool. I think much of my life skills today were learned through video games in my youth, and I think that our culture here in the U.S. at least completely disregards the positive effects of gaming. It’s great to see stuff like this, and it’s great publicity for Arena.net.

Oh god this must be the greatest joke ever.GW2 used to teach writing?With that level of personal story where the cabbage stole my glory?Oh god ROLFCOPTER.

Language Arts class aren’t really just writing though, in fact, in my experience very little writing is taught in LA classes. It’s mostly reading comprehension these days.

The average reading level in the United States is 4th grade. That’s why Teen Novels make such good sellers — It has the content that teens want, and it is still within the average reading level of the adult population too.

I digress, I’m drifting from Guild Wars discussion

xephire.8324:

Oh god this must be the greatest joke ever.GW2 used to teach writing?With that level of personal story where the cabbage stole my glory?Oh god ROLFCOPTER.

Depends on how you want to look at it.

Putting it your way. Romeo and Juliet was a tragedy about a girl who was too stupid to tell her boyfriend shes pretending to be dead.

gw2 can be used to teach motor skills like double clicks.

after double clicking like a few million times, i will probably get carpal tunnel soon.

please anet, please put in a “right click use all” function, or something like the revolutionary crafting system which gets rid of clicking a lot of times.

Now that you’ve all managed to each complain about a different aspect of the game…

In a classroom you probably aren’t going to be farming for your legendary or becoming the world’s best PvP league or anything. Instead you could do stuff players don’t usually think about. Once you take the reward factor out (because playing a game for class is rewarding enough) there can be a bit of enjoyment out of exploring the map, co-oping events .etc

I mean if my teacher wanted me to do CoE I wouldn’t really be thinking “Oh I’ve gotto get those tokens!”

According to the article they are learning about mission statements and writing short stories for their characters. Each is external to the game itself, the game is just a tool.

Seriously, I think it’s a great thing.

It really is. I hope to hear a lot more things like this for all kinds of games moving forward. Civ V always seemed like a logical choice for me… if only it didn’t last so long. :/

Plot Twist: One of those kids is sacrx, and his friends are all RG members

This is an interesting article and I think it is a very interesting teaching method.

Education today is is a much debated topic in my country because the old methods do not produce results anymore.
Instead you see a lack of discipline, lack of interest and ultimately lack of literacy among even high school students.
By the time they reach university it is a real problem because they are not prepared for the course material.

My own kid goes to a private school that also uses alternate teaching methods but on the other side of the spectrum where electronic media is discouraged (like TV and computers/cell phones for small children) in favor of a more natural environment.

They learn in the world around them and take part in their community and it has a profound effect by the time they reach high school.
Any method to engage children in a positive manner with learning should be encouraged, especially if it uses tools that already interest them.

Wait what? What does GW2 offer as a good learning tool?

Going on quests for relics? Figuring out puzzles together? Not to bash GW2, but how is it the best game for teaching teamwork? That’s one of the things this game is lacking in.

I sincerely hope they’re not learning plot and story writing from this game.

Knote.2904:

Wait what? What does GW2 offer as a good learning tool?

Going on quests for relics? Figuring out puzzles together? Not to bash GW2, but how is it the best game for teaching teamwork? That’s one of the things this game is lacking in.

You see, this attitude is the difference between parties that down down fractals like its nobody’s business and PUGs that ragequit halfway through the first fractal.

Jadeyes.6293:

Language Arts class aren’t really just writing though, in fact, in my experience very little writing is taught in LA classes. It’s mostly reading comprehension these days.

The average reading level in the United States is 4th grade. That’s why Teen Novels make such good sellers — It has the content that teens want, and it is still within the average reading level of the adult population too.

I digress, I’m drifting from Guild Wars discussion

I think language arts has been mostly focused on reading for quite some time. That’s probably why I have so much trouble with creative writing which I never learned how to do. Sure I was taught how to read and analyze other people’s creative writing, but not to create my own.

And I need to confess my own love for teen novels. After doing all the stuffy reading for my masters classes, there is nothing like curling up on the couch to do some easy light reading.

TwoBit.5903:

I sincerely hope they’re not learning plot and story writing from this game.

Well GW 2 has the basic elements down, and the first act is usually quite good. It is only once you get to Act 2 that things begin to fall apart.

But perhaps that is why GW 2 is exceptionally didactic; it shows students examples of both good plot and character development and poor plot and character development. You can compare Act 1 to Act 3, and the character development and growth of Caithe/Sieran/Tybalt to Trahearne. While I am not sure GW 2 has the same development as a single player game or another type or work of fiction, it still has some important lessons to teach.

Xae Isareth.1364:

Knote.2904:

Wait what? What does GW2 offer as a good learning tool?

Going on quests for relics? Figuring out puzzles together? Not to bash GW2, but how is it the best game for teaching teamwork? That’s one of the things this game is lacking in.

You see, this attitude is the difference between parties that down down fractals like its nobody’s business and PUGs that ragequit halfway through the first fractal.

No I’m talking about the other 95% of the game…..

Teachers getting lazier every year. I’m pretty much internet geek but I fondly remember times at school when there was no computers and internet. We actually learned things, you know. Not everything needs to be fun and have a carrot inside.

Not sure how GW2 relates in any way to language arts. If they want a well written game they should be using Fallout New Vegas or something…

Happy to see a great game get exposure. It’s a shame though that it couldn’t be in a more credible publication.

Teaching what? The integrity of words that were passed and then reverted as deemed fit? Good business practices. That’s it.

Actually, I was expecting them to comment on flipping the market. :P

I expected it to be for an economics class too but its actually just a terrible educator in the south.

Many teachers say they use videogames to develop students’ “soft skills,” such as self-control, persistence, self-confidence and ability to work in a group.

This line is particularly funny to me thinking about some of the threads ive seen on these forums and dialog ingame. This next generation of kids is screwed if theyre using escapism to teach people how to live.

Solo.9027:

I expected it to be for an economics class too but its actually just a terrible educator in the south.

Many teachers say they use videogames to develop students’ “soft skills,” such as self-control, persistence, self-confidence and ability to work in a group.

This line is particularly funny to me thinking about some of the threads ive seen on these forums and dialog ingame. This next generation of kids is screwed if theyre using escapism to teach people how to live.

I thought it’s about using the BLTC to learn market lol

jalmari.3906:

Teachers getting lazier every year. I’m pretty much internet geek but I fondly remember times at school when there was no computers and internet. We actually learned things, you know. Not everything needs to be fun and have a carrot inside.

I’m not sure why you wouldn’t want school to be fun. After all I’m guessing you want the next generations to be informed, intelligent people and one way to do that is to make the content taught fun. Why? Because if its fun, you’re more likely to be engaged in what is happening. This is important because the more engaged you are to the material the more likely you’re going to remember what is taught.

I’m sure we can all conjure up times when people have droned on and on a certain subject and chances are the wall or even the clock seemed much more worthy of attention and even if you’re trying to pay attention if it’s not engaging you may find yourself thinking over whats being said. I know this doesn’t apply to everyone some people have enough internal motivation to have there attention hanging on every word regardless of how engaging the material is or how it is taught but I have my suspicions that this is not a large number of the population. Now if we reversed this scenario to an avid speaker who drew pictures on the board and asked questions and seemed exited. Chances are you’d catch on to some of that and remember him/her as a good teacher that helped you hold onto information.

Now technology hasn’t even entered what I’ve said so far but I don’t see why it can’t. After all if the games can get you excited about the material, like the teacher they can help your remember what is being taught.

Another thing to point out is learning styles. We don’t all learn the same way and having a video game tag team along with the lesson can help visual learners and those who need to get there hands dirty to learn the material stay at the same level as everyone else instead of falling behind since the teacher only explains things with a few sketches and words as apposed to covering all bases which video games can help out.

Last thing I feel like I must say is that I’m not sure how much fun it was looking for books manually to learn things but hey maybe it was a party of a time and I’m really missing out on something. However I suspect that this is not the case, the internet gives access to an almost unlimited amount of information at the tap of a key. Of course with this comes a few caveats to the validity of information but most schools address this and express how to properly find credible sources and now with this access to the web, what you learn doesn’t have to be a bullet point in time. You can look up lets say for example “DNA” and you don’t have to pull out a book that was printed last year or even last month you can find real world happening now information on it but you arn’t limited to that you can see where they hope it will go in the future or you can dig deep into the past. All in one sitting without having to get up and pull down more books on the subject. Plus you can even find books that you can then purchase a solid copy or ebook to read.

But this idea that somehow things where better and you “actually learned things, you know” is complete carp. If anything you can be more informed in this day and age. I could go on but I think I should probably call it. This idea that somehow things where harder or better back then irks me.

Coming from someone who has two children in grade schools that do not currently utilize video games as learning tools, I have to admit I would find the inclusion of any video game to be slightly … disturbing. Don’t get me wrong — I’m all for creating and developing ways for their education to be more engaging, but to me, this is the first step in a concerning direction. Imagine, if you will, the kindergarten teacher who thinks that, since the children in the class find it to be entertaining/engaging, they should be permitted to watch Sesame Street? After all, it “teaches” the alphabet, problem-solving situations, shapes, colors, etc. … which, to an extent, many might find to be acceptable, so long as it was a learning tool as opposed to a curriculum substitution … and that, I think, is where the danger lies.

How heavily are such methods utilized/relied upon because the kids find it to be more engaging/entertaining? At one point does the teacher him/herself become nothing more than someone who can push the “On” button on the PC/TV set in front of the kids? And, perhaps most importantly of all, while learning will be much more productive if the kids are engaged in what they’re doing, is that what professional life is like? I don’t find my interests/desires catered to when I walk into the office in the morning — I have a position, responsibilities, decisions to make — all of which I am expected to perform because it’s my job. Should children be taught through their formative years that their education (which in many ways amounts to their profession) is something that has to be fun and exciting in order for them to feel the necessity to complete the tasks at hand (homework, tests, research papers, etc.).

As I said before — I’m all for new and innovative ways for education to be “upgraded” to remain relevant to emerging technologies and the like, and I enjoy video games just as much as my boys do … but I enjoy them in the evening, once my RL responsibilities have been taken care of and I have some time to unwind and relax. And I think there may be other methods by which it could be approached rather than allowing “Angry Birds” to play a role in physics lessons …

As long as kids are learning the material does it really matter how? Here’s something else to think about . Games improve things like motor skills ,pattern identification , and attention to detail which is never a bad thing .

I’m surprised Extra Credit’s video on gameification hasn’t been mentioned yet.

http://www.penny-arcade.com/patv/episode/gamification

Notable mention to another more recent video. Well worth watching both of them.

http://www.penny-arcade.com/patv/episode/games-in-education

Edit: Here’s a very good video on the state of our school systems as well.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDZFcDGpL4U

xephire.8324:

Oh god this must be the greatest joke ever.GW2 used to teach writing?With that level of personal story where the cabbage stole my glory?Oh god ROLFCOPTER.

Maybe the entire class was about how they would rewrite the entire story to have Traehearne mysteriously disappear at sea?

@mojowalker

I think you raise a good point to what extent technology should be implemented into school systems. After all the TV screen probably isn’t going to provide needed social skills and teacher should be more then just someone to “push the “On” button” but I don’t think this should stop people from exploring more options to work in tandem with lectures or other forms of education. After all in the article it speaks about how the students are doing more then just playing angry birds. They are writing blog posts and studying why it works and how it works with relation to Newton’s law of motion. In a sense they are applying what they are learning to something in the “real world” this I think can be paralleled to some extend with learning about newtons laws in class then going out and making a catapult in the sense that you’re applying what has been taught else where, thus furthering your understanding of the subject.

I must stay I struggled a bit with how best to address “I don’t find my interests/desires catered to when I walk into the office in the morning — I have a position, responsibilities, decisions to make — all of which I am expected to perform because it’s my job.” This is certainly true but thinking about it I think that real world responsibilities while important are not undermined by an engaging learning environment in fact it may do the opposite.

Since I don’t think the concept of homework or tests are leaving any time soon students will still have a responsibility to do these things however I think by having different ways of learning it will help create a disposition that finding and learning things on the subject they are studying or doing homework on is not necessarily a chore. I mean imagine actually being excited about doing your homework or at least not looking at it like some monster suddenly inhabited you backpack. Not because its not challenging or because you can’t get stuck but because there is a believe that you actually understand or are interested in the material. I guess what I’m try to say is that if we make learning fun children and later adults will have a good experience to fall back on when it comes to facing new things.

As it is now most of what I know of how learning is implemented is that students are not really learning the material. Some might be but I think a good number of students are just memorizing equations, definitions, etc. as apposed to actually understanding what they are dealing with. Once in the world of jobs this can come back to haunt students when an actual understanding is necessary instead of just recalling memorized material. However if we move the focus off of memorizing things for the sake of test and homework and put and emphasis on actual understanding of the material by creating an strong and engaging learning environment that this will have a positive effect for student later on in life. One of the ways to do this is to implement more the on way of handling material.

While I realize it wont always be sunshine and roses if children learn form an earlier age that learning is not something to hate or some sort of punishment put down upon them that they must grind through that there over all outlook moving forward will be improved and will help them later in life. Of course some of this motivation must come from the child him/her self because no matter how engaging material may be if a student chooses not to take part what is taught is being lost on them but I don’t think that should stop us from moving forward and promoting learning and understanding as valuable and that there is more then one way to go about doing things.

Aphoticrain.8420:

~ snip ~

I agree with you wholeheartedly in regards to finding and developing new and improved methods for promoting a more engaging, and ultimately fulfilling, educational environment and certainly didn’t mean to suggest that I saw no merit in those pursuits. I only meant to express a concern that the implementation of something like this could very easily become opening the lid of Pandora’s box. For example, there is a common misconception in many (not saying all, mind you, because I know for certain it is not the truth) parents’ eyes that the television/computer/tablet/phone, is an acceptable babysitter. Or that plopping a child down in front of one of those devices whilst the parent goes and does the same somewhere else in the house constitutes “quality-time”. I don’t mean to say that enjoying a movie together or playing a few rounds of Super Smash Bros together so they can beat the pants off of me isn’t quality-time spent together — it’s more the mindset of some that these devices provide an alternative to actually engaging with their own children. And my concern would be that such notions could very easily become more commonplace in a school environment as well.

As you mentioned, they are not currently being used for the express purpose of, “Here you are, boy/girl — here’s your PC, now go get your game on and I’ll check up on you at the end of the period”, and I find them being utilized as a tool an … interesting concept, given that they are then being asked to provide written observations, coordinate in groups, etc. And while I personally feel these same exercises could be conducted without the use of video games, or electronic media in general (you mentioned an example with conducting experiments with a catapult), I’m also cognizant of the fact that the inclusion of such devices, since they’re so prevalent in society as a whole, could be beneficial as well. On a similar note, I’ve argued that having children continue to learn how to handwrite as opposed to having them begin to learn how to type doesn’t make a lot of sense. And, as was mentioned, with the internet itself, in many ways it’s like having a library accessible at the touch of a few keys.

The concern I have is the extent to which it would begin to be utilized. If it remains a tool rather than a substitution, and students’ understanding of a subject rather than a regurgitation of facts/figures increases, then it will have been a successful undertaking. But if it becomes, “How was school today?” … “Oh, it was awesome! I played GW2 all friggin’ day because my teacher said I would learn basic economics!”
Then? … then we have a problem.

Aristio.2784:

I’m surprised Extra Credit’s video on gameification hasn’t been mentioned yet.

http://www.penny-arcade.com/patv/episode/gamification

Notable mention to another more recent video. Well worth watching both of them.

http://www.penny-arcade.com/patv/episode/games-in-education

Edit: Here’s a very good video on the state of our school systems as well.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDZFcDGpL4U

Gamification is different than what’s happening here though.
With gamification, your making learning into a game. You “level” up your reading skills, or improve your score by getting better grades on tests and assignments. It’s using game methodology as a tool to make education more of a task that you complete as you would in a game.
What the article entails is the usage of videogames as a supplemental learning tool used in classes. They play the game, and use their experience while playing it during their lessons and assignments.
Both are different, yet involve gaming, which is why I understand how you got confused.

You know, from what I read from the article, an interesting LA lesson plan for students that are using Guild Wars 2 as a learning tool could go something along the line of:

1. Start class by explaining that they’ll be creating new characters for the lesson. They will be humans, and can be any profession. Tell them to stop once they get to their character’s biography.
2. Ask them to read the biography carefully and to think about, and write, three additional facts about the character they just made.
3. Once done ask them to start, and finish the tutorial level.
4. After they finish the tutorial, have the students summarize, in their own words, what happened. Who did they speak to? What did they do? How did it end?
5. Once finished, have the students split up into different groups. Each group will then come up with a different task that another group will have to complete within the game. List each step, and explain why they need to do it.
6. When finished, have each group present their quest to the rest of the class. These quests will be distributed at random to each group. The student must then complete the quest.
7. Homework would be to write a full page report on the quest, and to then write up your own quest that the whole class might do during the week.

I don’t know, but it’s something I would do if I were using Guild Wars 2 in LA a class.

I use GW2 as a teaching tool for my 1st grader.

1) Reading, comprehension, & reasoning skills: I make her read all the pop ups and interaction dialogues, and help her with the more difficult words. Then we talk about what it means, and if there is a choice we discuss the implications of each possible choice.

2) Math and finical skills: Crafting. Is is less expensive to purchase a premade item or craft it yourself? If it’s cheaper to craft, gather the mats or purchase them? How many iron do you need to make an ingot? How many ingots do you need to make a sword? How many total orr do you need? Sell items on TP or merchant? Don’t forget about listing fees.

3)Ethics and team work: Sometimes she just watches the map to go revive someone. I’ve heard this more than once; “Mommy! Someone was fighting a lizard and died, so I killed the lizard and made them alive again!!! And I got scales!!!” or “I almost died, but someone helped me kill the spider!!! That was super nice of them.”

There are a lot more lessons we learn by playing GW2, but I’ll spare the details.

Her school has computer class that they attend. They learn how to use a mouse and keyboard, and software basics. They also play educations games that are centered around typing, math, and spelling.

The school also has a membership to a math website where each child has their own account, and each class is on a team. The more math games they play, and the higher the level, the more points the earn. They get individual achievements, and group achievements. The classes compete each week to see who has the most points. The website also ranks all the participating schools across the country.

The child can do math in her head faster than I can.

While I agree that video games can be too much of a good thing sometimes. There are also a lot of great things that can be taught via games and computers,especially when the parent/teacher is actively participating with the child and explaining/challenging them.

I’m not sure I’d let kids play this game, they’ll grow up to be gambling addicts.

Garambola.2461:

Actually, I was expecting them to comment on flipping the market. :P

Me too – I thought I’d be reading an article on flipping penny stocks.