Guild Wars 2

Uh, programming AI is far from the Dev’s best skills. Using the Ranger pet is evidence enough of that. I wouldn’t expect much in this direction.

“Our data suggests that very few players play as mobs, therefore improving them is low on our priority list.”

I would say the offender here would be the fact that good AI costs server power, but isn’t AI server-side in GW1 as well?..

(I haven’t played much of GW1, but why does it sound so much better than the sequel in many ways?)

Draco.2806:

“Our data suggests that very few players play as mobs, therefore improving them is low on our priority list.”

I would say the offender here would be the fact that good AI costs server power, but isn’t AI server-side in GW1 as well?..

(I haven’t played much of GW1, but why does it sound so much better than the sequel in many ways?)

Guild Wars 1 was a superior game in some ways, this is true..but not quite as superior as many of those who are commenting would have you believe…and yes, I was a huge fan of Guild Wars 1, and still find it enjoyable on the rare occasions I log back in. But there are many deficiencies in the game as well, that some people seem to ignore.

There are mob healers in the Scarlet invasions. So, sometimes the mobs do work together. That may or may not be the only case, I really don’t have any idea. Just that I have seen Twisted mobs get healed. So, maybe they are changing things a bit more in the direction you, OP, would desire. =)

Well the AI is kinda strange in the game, when you compare for instance Bandits with your regular NPCs, the ranged bandits are going to run away from you when they use ranged weaponery and sometimes they even dodge your slower projectiles.

Its like multiple people worked on the AI from scraps and didn’t bother sharing their finalised version of it.

Like Vayne said, GW1 was a superior game, I personally feel it was a better game than GW2, it did have its issues sure, but overall it was a far far more enjoyable game, hell it kept me and my friends playing it for 7 years, the same friends who have all abandoned GW2 for other games now because of lack of content, game breaking bugs, and basically being told how to play, and this week the rest of us will move over to FF14 to join our friends,

If GW1 and GW2 where both released at the same time, same GFX etc, GW1 would destroy GW2.

Ok I Did It.2854:

Like Vayne said, GW1 was a superior game, I personally feel it was a better game than GW2, it did have its issues sure, but overall it was a far far more enjoyable game, hell it kept me and my friends playing it for 7 years, the same friends who have all abandoned GW2 for other games now because of lack of content, game breaking bugs, and basically being told how to play, and this week the rest of us will move over to FF14 to join our friends,

If GW1 and GW2 where both released at the same time, same GFX etc, GW1 would destroy GW2.

I didn’t say Guild Wars 1 was a superior game. I said in some ways it was a superior game. Whether it was superior or not, depends very much on specifically what you were looking for.

I believe for example that Guild Wars 1 was the superior PvP game. That much is certain. But there were advantages and disadvantages to the game play. For example, I couldn’t play Guild Wars 1 these days seriously because I won’t stand around in Spamadan trying to sell stuff, when in Guild Wars 2 I could just list it on the marketplace. And while some of the missions in Guild Wars 1 were a lot of fun, many were tedious and even annoying. Rose-colored glasses and all. Guild Wars 1 certainly had more skills and build variety, which meant that you could load up a team of heroes and AFK your way through pretty much most of the games content, including hard mode content.

More on topic, I’ve noticed that in some of the lower end zones, Queensdale for example, there are some examples of better AI. Low end moas run away from you when they’re overwhelmed, bandits actually dodge and centaur archers won’t stand there, but they’ll try to gallop away to get some distance on you if you’re melee.

The reason for the difference in the AI has everything to do with Guild Wars 1 giving you a full team of heroes at your disposal, or at least heroes and henchmen (now days you can use all heroes). It means you were never really alone…and that can’t always been said for Guild Wars 2.

Could you imagine trying to fight some of those mobs in Guild Wars 1 solo? Take the War in Kryta mobs, and try soloing them in hard mode. It’s much easier for devs to provide more intelligent foes when you had relatively intelligent AI on your side so you didn’t have to do all the work.

It is worst. I think they’re using some AI from a game released in the 70’s or something. But then you look at gw1 and that game was better at everything compared to gw2 so yeaah. At the same time, this kind of AI and lag (how many games currently released drop to 10fps?) are unseen for a game that was released so recently.

Nuka Cola.8520:

It is worst. I think they’re using some AI from a game released in the 70’s or something. But then you look at gw1 and that game was better at everything compared to gw2 so yeaah. At the same time, this kind of AI and lag (how many games currently released drop to 10fps?) are unseen for a game that was released so recently.

Everything? Like the marketplace that didn’t exist? The bridge bug where you couldn’t fire arrows at something on a bridge? The lack of crafting (if you like crafting Guild Wars 1 certainly wasn’t better).

Everything about Guild Wars 1 wasn’t better than everything in Guild Wars 2.

Vayne.8563:

Nuka Cola.8520:

It is worst. I think they’re using some AI from a game released in the 70’s or something. But then you look at gw1 and that game was better at everything compared to gw2 so yeaah. At the same time, this kind of AI and lag (how many games currently released drop to 10fps?) are unseen for a game that was released so recently.

Everything? Like the marketplace that didn’t exist? The bridge bug where you couldn’t fire arrows at something on a bridge? The lack of crafting (if you like crafting Guild Wars 1 certainly wasn’t better).

Everything about Guild Wars 1 wasn’t better than everything in Guild Wars 2.

TP is a ripoff, no idea what bridge you’re talking about (if that was a bug, i let you guess how many thousands gw2 has 13 months after game’s release), WHO THE F cares about crafting when weapon AND armor skins were waaaaaaay better than crap available in gw2~~ no wonder everyone looks the same and none feel unique. Absolutely everything was better in gw1, even graphics for its time. With every month gw2 isn’t getting closer to its old brother but is getting closer n closer at falling in the same bag of Korean generic mmo #437842.

That’s why I said, that it was superior but did have some issues,

But overall GW1 was a better game than GW2,

GW2 has no sPvP, and what little sPvP you have in there everyone is running the same build, because its nearly impossible for them to balance it in such a way, if you change your build up at all, WHAM you getting the beat down in 5 seconds, I think this is why they dropped 5 sPvP zones into WvW.

Fact is, they took the best parts of GW1 and well left them in GW1, if I had known that GW2 would have turned out the way it did, I don’t think I would have bought it, I invited several friends via the free weekends, and none of them had any interest after it, the fan boys who love the game for what it is will never agree, they will always find something to argue with, and hey, if they love the game its all good, but the only thing that is keeping this game alive is the fact they have that entire Asian market to get into yet, without it I think this game would have had the plug pulled already,

If you are a fanboy who loves the game and loves being told how to play it, im glad you enjoy the game for what it is, for everyone else, see ya in the next big game

@Nuke cola, hes talking about the brigde in that one mission in nightfall, I believe it was Moddok Crevice at the end where you could stand under the bridge and kill the enemies above.

so 1 mission with bugged bridge is worth mentioning as something very bad and negative but thousands bugs and most importantly bugged skills/traits is nothing? not a single skill in gw1 was bugged for a year~~~~in gw2 there’s literally dozens rofl its so pathetic its not even funny and say this to someone who haven’t played the game he’ll probably not even believe you. Its pretty much incredible how they don’t give a &^%$ about fixing the absolute most important thing you can fix, players skills/traits.

Nuka Cola.8520:

Vayne.8563:

Nuka Cola.8520:

It is worst. I think they’re using some AI from a game released in the 70’s or something. But then you look at gw1 and that game was better at everything compared to gw2 so yeaah. At the same time, this kind of AI and lag (how many games currently released drop to 10fps?) are unseen for a game that was released so recently.

Everything? Like the marketplace that didn’t exist? The bridge bug where you couldn’t fire arrows at something on a bridge? The lack of crafting (if you like crafting Guild Wars 1 certainly wasn’t better).

Everything about Guild Wars 1 wasn’t better than everything in Guild Wars 2.

TP is a ripoff, no idea what bridge you’re talking about (if that was a bug, i let you guess how many thousands gw2 has 13 months after game’s release), WHO THE F cares about crafting when weapon AND armor skins were waaaaaaay better than crap available in gw2~~ no wonder everyone looks the same and none feel unique. Absolutely everything was better in gw1, even graphics for its time. With every month gw2 isn’t getting closer to its old brother but is getting closer n closer at falling in the same bag of Korean generic mmo #437842.

Anyone who says everything was better, is obviously wrong. I mean, seriously obviously wrong. It’s not even possible for that to be true. The strength of the statement makes it false.

You call me a Guild Wars 2 fan boi….glass houses and stones and stuff.\

Edit: If nothing else, the pathing in GW 1 was terribad. Oh look a log…I guess I’ll have to turn around now.

Nuka Cola.8520:

so 1 mission with bugged bridge is worth mentioning as something very bad and negative but thousands bugs and most importantly bugged skills/traits is nothing? not a single skill in gw1 was bugged for a year~~~~in gw2 there’s literally dozens rofl its so pathetic its not even funny and say this to someone who haven’t played the game he’ll probably not even believe you. Its pretty much incredible how they don’t give a &^%$ about fixing the absolute most important thing you can fix, players skills/traits.

No, I’m talking about the fact that for years, rangers couldn’t shoot arrows at creatures on bridges. I don’t really know how you missed that. It was about a third of the bridges in the game.

Nuka Cola.8520:

no idea what bridge you’re talking about (if that was a bug, i let you guess how many thousands gw2 has 13 months after game’s release)

It wasn’t a bug, it was a “feature” of GW1, or rather a “missing feature” of that game. The GW1 Game engine did NOT have a z-axis. Which meant if you put for example traps under the Bridge in the first Heroes Ascend map (Underworld) or ANY BRIDGE in the game, enemies above will trigger them. Or for example in the Riverside Province mission you could stand close to a Watchtower and damage the Archer on top of it with MELEE skills. It wasn’t just a simple bug on a single bridge, it was everywhere.

Maybe it’s because they have the “same” engine that GW2 has issues with the z-axis too, easiest example is getting killed by spikes/lava in SAB while being way way high above them (jumping), not even close to touching them. The other great example is the Dredge fractal where you could die by a bomb thrown by the Dredge suit UNDER you, while you were standing next to the Lever. Of course they fixed this in a later patch but it was hillarious while it lasted.

I really liked that everything in GW1 all used the same skillpool, even though they moved further away from this with each expansion. I feel that the AI in both games is kind of crap, but the enemy composition in GW1 was far more interesting.

There are mobs that dodge and move from AoE. But not all of them.

ThiBash.5634:

There are mobs that dodge and move from AoE. But not all of them.

They are mostly at the lower level zones. Perhaps testers and devs themselves didn’t like the idea of smart mobs and in the end made all others dumb?

Vayne.8563:

Anyone who says everything was better, is obviously wrong. I mean, seriously obviously wrong. It’s not even possible for that to be true. The strength of the statement makes it false.

You call me a Guild Wars 2 fan boi….glass houses and stones and stuff.\

Edit: If nothing else, the pathing in GW 1 was terribad. Oh look a log…I guess I’ll have to turn around now.

I’ll agree with this. I enjoyed GW1 a lot, but it’s a pretty bold statement to claim that everything in GW1 was better.

As for the bridge bug: If you stood in the wall of a bridge, projectiles couldn’t hit you. This existed for years, and still exists today. Worst part is that you could abuse it in certain RA/HA maps (maybe GvG, I’m not sure).

Gw1 AI had to be great because heroes and henchman had to perform just like players (at times better) since pets is that only thing that uses that AI in gw2 it really isn’t a concern to the devs.

Waldir.2571:

Gw1 AI had to be great because heroes and henchman had to perform just like players (at times better) since pets is that only thing that uses that AI in gw2 it really isn’t a concern to the devs.

Wrong. Pets aren’t the only AI around.

Mobs need AI
NPC need AI
Bosses need AI.

The dredge is probably one of the best designed AI we currently have. They don’t really have player’s skills, but:

-Dredge Disaggregators will buff allies with gongs
-Whenever a melee player reaches a Dredge Bomber, he runs away from him/her and continue throwing his grenades: kiting
-Both Dredge Resonator and Dredge Oscillator have a specific knockback skill which they only use when a player is in melee range
-Mining Suits summons dredges to fight at it side, usually always summoning a Dredge Disaggregator because of the AoE buffing
-There is a good variety between melee dredge and ranged dredge overall

And yet, despite all the positive design aspects, it’s one of the enemies people hate fighting the most. Go figure…

runeblade.7514:

Waldir.2571:

Gw1 AI had to be great because heroes and henchman had to perform just like players (at times better) since pets is that only thing that uses that AI in gw2 it really isn’t a concern to the devs.

Wrong. Pets aren’t the only AI around.

Mobs need AI
NPC need AI
Bosses need AI.

You’re right. GW2 AI: Enemy sees player. Enemy runs to player. Enemy uses 1 of 3 skills. Enemy waits 30 seconds, then uses another one.

At least they had full bars ( for the most part ) in GW1.

Most mobs attk ppl base off a lot of things but because mobs where too “annoying” for ppl they dropped the number of skills they could use. This is mainly caused by the forum community. Thank you for shooting your self in the foot and then complaining about how you shot your self in the foot and some how its some one else fault.

Ai in GW2 is a great deal better then in GW1 simply due to positioning and the factors that the mob must do to fight.

The best example of what ppl say they want vs what they realty want is having ppl who said they want harder content then spamming 1 once Anet added this in you have the same ppl complainer about the harder content. Watch what you wish for or your going to make every game where the player base has a chose in it into a very bad game.

runeblade.7514:

Waldir.2571:

Gw1 AI had to be great because heroes and henchman had to perform just like players (at times better) since pets is that only thing that uses that AI in gw2 it really isn’t a concern to the devs.

Wrong. Pets aren’t the only AI around.

Mobs need AI
NPC need AI
Bosses need AI.

Wasn’t the fact that all those that use the AI in gw2 are terrible the problem at hand?

In gw1 if henchman didn’t perform people comaplained and it got improved, I strongly believe that mob AI isn’t a priority for devs.

Waldir.2571:

runeblade.7514:

Waldir.2571:

Gw1 AI had to be great because heroes and henchman had to perform just like players (at times better) since pets is that only thing that uses that AI in gw2 it really isn’t a concern to the devs.

Wrong. Pets aren’t the only AI around.

Mobs need AI
NPC need AI
Bosses need AI.

Wasn’t the fact that all those that use the AI in gw2 are terrible the problem at hand?

In gw1 if henchman didn’t perform people comaplained and it got improved, I strongly believe that mob AI isn’t a priority for devs.

Actually there is some good AI in this game, go to the Heart of the Mists and fight one of the Profession npcs. They DO use the exact same skills as the players, they DO dodge and they aren’t braindead like all the other mobs in the game, they also have a lot lower health than most mobs out there (similar to player health). Now why Anet doesn’t use that AI in the actual game is beyond me. So I don’t think it’s a matter of priority, they DON’T WANT to have inteligent mobs, instead they want them to have loads of hit points and have very slow but ultra damaging attacks, that’s by design, the AI code is there.

Sadly this is a real problem. Even groups of mobs are trivial and silly. The game really needs a more GW1 approach to AI and mostly everything.
Sadly they won’t do it.

I remember in the first beta weekend enemy mobs being quite smart. They’d move out of AoEs, they’d CC and get distance if you were playing melee. They’d rush you if you were ranged.

Players that weekend complained ENDLESSLY about it. The AI in this game is one of the things that the player base only has to look at themselves in the mirror to find out what went “wrong.”

Waldir.2571:

runeblade.7514:

Waldir.2571:

Gw1 AI had to be great because heroes and henchman had to perform just like players (at times better) since pets is that only thing that uses that AI in gw2 it really isn’t a concern to the devs.

Wrong. Pets aren’t the only AI around.

Mobs need AI
NPC need AI
Bosses need AI.

Wasn’t the fact that all those that use the AI in gw2 are terrible the problem at hand?

In gw1 if henchman didn’t perform people comaplained and it got improved, I strongly believe that mob AI isn’t a priority for devs.

So you are saying pets have good AI?

That is just wrong.

Harper.4173:

Sadly this is a real problem. Even groups of mobs are trivial and silly. The game really needs a more GW1 approach to AI and mostly everything.
Sadly they won’t do it.

Early on when the GW2 team said that they didn’t want to make GW1 with prettier graphics, this was pretty evident. Granted, they did make a statement that also said everything you like about GW1 and all that jazz, but you take those two statements, then put two and two together. My point is this, it’s already been discussed at length why GW2 can’t really be GW1 in design. The biggest design limitation for GW1 was that everything was pretty much designed for up to 8 players. GW2 now allows for easily 10x that on a single map. That alone changes the ball game big time for design choices. Anet could have gone any number of directions with the game but it has been argued that designing map content and enemy AI in GW1 has little to do with the challenges of designing enemy AI in the open world of GW2.

The mobs do have some skill variety and they do use those attacks. I’m guessing they have a set of about four skills, the same as ranger pets. Mobs of the same type seem to share three of those four skills. New players can’t recognize the animations of these mob types and get beaten up. Experienced players know the skills, know the animations, and deal with them easily.

The monsters mainly seem to use class skills in some form. I wonder if the developers feel that by actively balancing PvP they can put the skills in PvE and inherit balance there too.

Moving monsters are a real pain in the neck and not fun to play against. Really. The most annoying ones for me at the moment are the krait. If I use one of my thief skills underwater it swings me round the side of the krait for an attack. Whenever I do it the krait swings off in response and out of melee range. It is effectively giving the krait an automatic dodge, perfectly timed based on server calculations. That’s not fun. It feels like the AI is cheating. It is effectively stopping me playing my class by denying me skills and I’ve only got five melee weapon skills to start with.

Also if mobs are too mobile you tend to get mobs moving perfectly into and around melee range (based on server calculations) and players always struggling to turn and move in range. Mobs have 360 sensing and players often don’t. Players already struggle to gauge the engagement point when moving towards a frenzied/swift mob so the mob and the player cross and finish behind each other. It might be a misjudgement of the player but it feels like bad AI, bad game mechanics, and no fun.

All in all, I just want them to improve the AI, and then reduce the mob’s stats back down to a relevant level to the human players.

The main problem that GW2 has an open pve, not like in GW1. And because of that they can’t make mobs as smart as in GW1.

Turning corpg to mmorpg was a huge mistake, imo.

After playing GW1, AI was the biggest let down from GW2.

I agree the AI in gw2 could definately do with some work. 100%, it isnt a big step compared to gw1.

But I think we have a serious case of rose tinted glasses when it comes to looking back at what gw1 monsters did. They didnt run and kite away when they were hurt, come on, you remember how farming worked right? Monsters would batter themselves to death off my Rit’s VwK without making any attempt to run away or heal (unless they were a monk class).

They didn’t use their skills particularly intelligently, they just spammed through their skillset like in gw2. The only big difference with gw1 is that we had prot/heal monk monsters that would spam these skills on nearby monsters if they themselves weren’t damaged. If anything they were just annoying and didn’t promote any real skillful play other than remembering to bring some skills to shutdown a monk and always kill the healer mob first.

The reason gw1 AI worked was even tho it was really basic, moreso than gw2, you could slap any build you like on them and give them skills that had really strong synergies that would tax a player even if the monster just stands in one place spamming through its skills. The skillsets the mobs have in gw2 are far more subtle due to the more action combat system. They are far more relient on precise timing, mobility, comboing fields etc.. stuff that gw1 AI couldnt do in a million years, and that gw2 AI does pretty badly.

I agree, lets see some better AI in gw2, but lets drop the gw1 did it amazingly better idea, it just isnt true. It was the simplified combat system alongside the much higher variety of skills/builds that made the mobs challenging in gw1, not their super AI.

At least make the Bosses/Monsters move around.
They just stand there and soak up the damage.

Well that was distracting. After reading this thread (yesterday) I felt like playing GW1 and I did just that, but forgot to reply, anyway…

It’s true, GW1 had fantastic AI despite it not even needing it. It wasn’t a dynamic game, so it could easily pass off with average AI. But instead it had fantastic AI.

The enemies would move out of AoE fields, weaker ones would stay further in the back, they would use skills in a smart way etc.

While GW2 which is a fast paced dynamic game which would require a more interactive and intelligent AI has one worst to that of GW1.

Enemies don’t interact with each other, have simplistic skills, don’t move to get out of trouble. Don’t use interesting and smart skills, don’t dodge, etc.

What I liked in GW1 was that every encounter posed a threat, even if it were just basic regular mobs. You couldn’t just sit back and autoattack them to death, doing that more times than not would put you in trouble.

Every encounter forced you to actually pay attention and make sure another group wouldn’t attack you while you were engaged with enemies, it was a lot of fun.

However in GW2 the enemies tend to be alone, spread out, far apart, and dumb. They don’t pose a threat and are nearly harmless.

Rhaps.8540:

They didn’t use their skills particularly intelligently, they just spammed through their skillset like in gw2. The only big difference with gw1 is that we had prot/heal monk monsters that would spam these skills on nearby monsters if they themselves weren’t damaged.

Not only monsters in GW1 used protections and heals on their monster allies. They also rezzed dead monsters and constantly interrupt rezzing players (and other important skills), they spiked damage on one target (no CC = dead) and yes, they moved around to keep distance.

It was not perfect, I give you that but it was probably the most fun AI you would encounter.

I can’t imagine why they didn’t spend more time working on mob AI.

but well… the game is filled with inconsistencies. Just to begin with… a game with no tanks and healers, replaced with control and support… we have toughness, vitality and healing but we don’t have CC duration or Boon Power stats (all boons yields the same numbers no matter who cast it). Expecting a better AI when this game has design errors so deep on its core its expecting too much.

Mesket.5728:

Rhaps.8540:

They didn’t use their skills particularly intelligently, they just spammed through their skillset like in gw2. The only big difference with gw1 is that we had prot/heal monk monsters that would spam these skills on nearby monsters if they themselves weren’t damaged.

Not only monsters in GW1 used protections and heals on their monster allies. They also rezzed dead monsters and constantly interrupt rezzing players (and other important skills), they spiked damage on one target (no CC = dead) and yes, they moved around to keep distance.

It was not perfect, I give you that but it was probably the most fun AI you would encounter.

I can’t imagine why they didn’t spend more time working on mob AI.

but well… the game is filled with inconsistencies. Just to begin with… a game with no tanks and healers, replaced with control and support… we have toughness, vitality and healing but we don’t have CC duration or Boon Power stats (all boons yields the same numbers no matter who cast it). Expecting a better AI when this game has design errors so deep on its core its expecting too much.

Know the saddest part? I honestly don’t expect there to be any amazing game changing fixes either. I assume we’ll just get more of the same going on.

For example the condition cap, it’s a huge flaw which I’ve just had to learn to live with.

Vayne.8563:

Draco.2806:

“Our data suggests that very few players play as mobs, therefore improving them is low on our priority list.”

I would say the offender here would be the fact that good AI costs server power, but isn’t AI server-side in GW1 as well?..

(I haven’t played much of GW1, but why does it sound so much better than the sequel in many ways?)

Guild Wars 1 was a superior game in some ways, this is true..but not quite as superior as many of those who are commenting would have you believe…and yes, I was a huge fan of Guild Wars 1, and still find it enjoyable on the rare occasions I log back in. But there are many deficiencies in the game as well, that some people seem to ignore.

Well gw1 was released around 8 yrs ago you would think they would improve upon stuff

Delryn.7235:

Mesket.5728:

Rhaps.8540:

They didn’t use their skills particularly intelligently, they just spammed through their skillset like in gw2. The only big difference with gw1 is that we had prot/heal monk monsters that would spam these skills on nearby monsters if they themselves weren’t damaged.

Not only monsters in GW1 used protections and heals on their monster allies. They also rezzed dead monsters and constantly interrupt rezzing players (and other important skills), they spiked damage on one target (no CC = dead) and yes, they moved around to keep distance.

It was not perfect, I give you that but it was probably the most fun AI you would encounter.

I can’t imagine why they didn’t spend more time working on mob AI.

but well… the game is filled with inconsistencies. Just to begin with… a game with no tanks and healers, replaced with control and support… we have toughness, vitality and healing but we don’t have CC duration or Boon Power stats (all boons yields the same numbers no matter who cast it). Expecting a better AI when this game has design errors so deep on its core its expecting too much.

Know the saddest part? I honestly don’t expect there to be any amazing game changing fixes either. I assume we’ll just get more of the same going on.

For example the condition cap, it’s a huge flaw which I’ve just had to learn to live with.

we will get a revamped Claw of Jornag and Shatterer probably, then; if lucky, we will get a full revamp on dungeons (meaning that some bosses will now fart in the middle). That’s it. I’m not expecting Velociraptors to learn how to open doors.

Kreslin.6832:

The main problem that GW2 has an open pve, not like in GW1. And because of that they can’t make mobs as smart as in GW1.

Turning corpg to mmorpg was a huge mistake, imo.

This has nothing to do with open world vs closed world. I mean yes GW2 is a very different game to GW1. But what’s the problem here? The AI should have adopted so they can fight in GW2.

I will simplify and say that:

GW1 mobs were trying to play GW1. They know the rules of the game and do their best with it. Healing is important, so they try to heal. Ressing is important, so they try to res. Interrupt is important, so they try to interrupt.

GW2 mobs have no idea what they are doing. What kite? What snare? What dodge? What combo fields? GW2 mobs weren’t playing GW2. They were playing their own “unique” game where they have 10 times the health, 10 times the damage and immune to snares when compared to their human enemies.

Basically everything gameplay related is better in GW1.

RoRo.8270:

Vayne.8563:

Draco.2806:

“Our data suggests that very few players play as mobs, therefore improving them is low on our priority list.”

I would say the offender here would be the fact that good AI costs server power, but isn’t AI server-side in GW1 as well?..

(I haven’t played much of GW1, but why does it sound so much better than the sequel in many ways?)

Guild Wars 1 was a superior game in some ways, this is true..but not quite as superior as many of those who are commenting would have you believe…and yes, I was a huge fan of Guild Wars 1, and still find it enjoyable on the rare occasions I log back in. But there are many deficiencies in the game as well, that some people seem to ignore.

Well gw1 was released around 8 yrs ago you would think they would improve upon stuff

Are you suggesting games didn’t have auction houses eight years ago? Or that they didn’t have persistent worlds.

The changes in this game, including many of the changes that people are complaining about here, exist because the game moved from a lobby game to a true MMO with a persistent world. Do you know the moaning and complaining there would be in an open world if creatures had the same AI as they did in Guild Wars 1 but you didn’t have a party of heroes and henchmen to keep you alive.

Anyway I was responding to someone who said everything…EVERYTHING…was better in Guild Wars 1. Since that’s completely not true, it’s not even conceivably true, I’m not sure of the relevance of your post. It was made to respond specifically to that statement.

Vayne.8563:

Do you know the moaning and complaining there would be in an open world if creatures had the same AI as they did in Guild Wars 1 but you didn’t have a party of heroes and henchmen to keep you alive.

Yes, it would actually force people to play together and make Anet create a combat system based around players needing more than more meat for the grinder to overcome obstacles.

Pariah.8506:

Vayne.8563:

Do you know the moaning and complaining there would be in an open world if creatures had the same AI as they did in Guild Wars 1 but you didn’t have a party of heroes and henchmen to keep you alive.

Yes, it would actually force people to play together and make Anet create a combat system based around players needing more than more meat for the grinder to overcome obstacles.

No, it wouldn’t force people to play together. The people who want to play together would play together and everyone else would simply leave the game. In case you haven’t noticed, people don’t like to be forced to do stuff. That’s what a lot of the complaining on these forums comes down to. I don’t want to be forced to do dailies.

Many MMO devs have said straight out that you can no longer ignore the number of people who solo in MMOs. There are more of them than you think. More to the point, there are also people who play at off hours or in different countries who don’t have a zillion people playing when they play.

And then you have the fact that the world is huge and people are off doing whatever they’re doing which takes them out of the open world.

In fact, even as it is now, there are threads that pop up here and there that the open world is too hard to solo. Just imagine if they made it truly hard.

Vayne.8563:

No, it wouldn’t force people to play together. The people who want to play together would play together and everyone else would simply leave the game. In case you haven’t noticed, people don’t like to be forced to do stuff. That’s what a lot of the complaining on these forums comes down to. I don’t want to be forced to do dailies.

If people don’t want to play alongside others then maybe, just maybe they should play a single player game. The point of an MMO is player interaction, GW2 has none of it. You simply zerg down stuff in a horde in which every single person is doing his own thing, there is 0 atruism. There is no necromancer casting Order of Pain solely for the benefit of the melee classes, there is no elementalist that let’s his colleague know he just cast Searing Flames so that it can be combined with Ash Blast. All the other members of the horde may as well have been replaced by mute robots and you wouldn’t even notice it.

Vayne.8563:

Many MMO devs have said straight out that you can no longer ignore the number of people who solo in MMOs. There are more of them than you think. More to the point, there are also people who play at off hours or in different countries who don’t have a zillion people playing when they play.

And many MMO devs adhere to the f2p p2w business plan, does that mean it is the best course of action? It’s up to the devs to balance, to think out every situation and to do it well. And yes, I am aware of people playing at off hours, we call it WvW.

Vayne.8563:

And then you have the fact that the world is huge and people are off doing whatever they’re doing which takes them out of the open world.

The world is not huge, the world is many times smaller than it is because a player can get anywhere at any time because the world is littered with Asura Waypoints meaning the time spent getting somewhere becomes negligible. Meaning anything worth doing immediately gets overwhelmed by a surplus of players anyway.

Pariah.8506:

Vayne.8563:

No, it wouldn’t force people to play together. The people who want to play together would play together and everyone else would simply leave the game. In case you haven’t noticed, people don’t like to be forced to do stuff. That’s what a lot of the complaining on these forums comes down to. I don’t want to be forced to do dailies.

If people don’t want to play alongside others then maybe, just maybe they should play a single player game. The point of an MMO is player interaction, GW2 has none of it. You simply zerg down stuff in a horde in which every single person is doing his own thing, there is 0 atruism. There is no necromancer casting Order of Pain solely for the benefit of the melee classes, there is no elementalist that let’s his colleague know he just cast Searing Flames so that it can be combined with Ash Blast. All the other members of the horde may as well have been replaced by mute robots and you wouldn’t even notice it.

Vayne.8563:

Many MMO devs have said straight out that you can no longer ignore the number of people who solo in MMOs. There are more of them than you think. More to the point, there are also people who play at off hours or in different countries who don’t have a zillion people playing when they play.

And many MMO devs adhere to the f2p p2w business plan, does that mean it is the best course of action? It’s up to the devs to balance, to think out every situation and to do it well. And yes, I am aware of people playing at off hours, we call it WvW.

Vayne.8563:

And then you have the fact that the world is huge and people are off doing whatever they’re doing which takes them out of the open world.

The world is not huge, the world is many times smaller than it is because a player can get anywhere at any time because the world is littered with Asura Waypoints meaning the time spent getting somewhere becomes negligible. Meaning anything worth doing immediately gets overwhelmed by a surplus of players anyway.

Scott Hartsman, who was the lead developer of Rift said, and I’m paraphrasing here, anyone making an MMO who ignores solo players does so at his own risk. I think maybe the devs have a better idea of who plays the game than you do.

The fact is, you don’t get to tell people how to play the game or whether they should or not. So many people solo in these games, that saying they should go back to a single player game means taking a huge chunk out of the play base. Is that what you think would be best for the game?

I almost never solo, and I don’t like soloing, but I acknowledge that many people do and that the game would be weaker without them.

That’s why dungeons and WvW and PvP tournaments exist. To force you to team up.