There are aspects of combat I feel that are missing thus creating the issues a lot of us see in GW2:
Mobs need enmity that can be manipulated by players. The ability to generate hate or grab mobs attention should be in game. Every class should have the ability or skill to increase or decrease “hate”. In turn mobs can maybe have a cool off period where enmity resets and needs to be rebuilt. Right now things are too random and chaotic. Maybe add the enmity stat to existing skills?
Crowd Control skills need more utility in PVE. Melee mobs beeline for players regardless if they’re slowed, limping, or rooted. The time these effects last are insignificant to game play or strategy now. Just more effects to clutter up the screen.
The dodge mechanic doesn’t match with the tempo of combat. Right now everyone gets 2 dodges while enemies can spam certain attacks over and over. What happens when there are more than 1 or 2 mobs attacking? What do players do after the 2 dodge? I feel that lighter armored classes should have the ability to be more mobile and dodge a couple more times.
Blocking skills need less cool down. If a player can’t dodge then they should be able to use their blocking skills a bit more.
The cool down on multiplayer healing skills need to come down more as well. Allow players to be helpful to others in more ways than just doing damage. Yes, let them actually keep people alive if they’re dedicating combat time to it.
All these suggestions are general and I’m not saying there should be a complete revamp but I think these things could improve the combat of GW2.
Does anyone else feel that combat is too dps-spamcentric?
Does anyone else feel that combat is way too random, forcing the only solution of “just… do… more damage?”
Do the developers notice threads like this? What is their take on the combat?
After running around Mad Kings Labyrinth for a 2nd season I had the realization of how insignificant my skill bar was. I was just pressing whatever wasn’t on cool down in some cases. Combat improvement would help GW2 be better. Allow the players to solve problems in different ways besides simply dealing damage exclusively
ArenaNet does NOT play Guild Wars 2. This can’t be.
After running around Mad Kings Labyrinth for a 2nd season I had the realization of how insignificant my skill bar was. I was just pressing whatever wasn’t on cool down in some cases. Combat improvement would help GW2 be better. Allow the players to solve problems in different ways besides simply dealing damage exclusively
It happens when you zerg or just generally in open pve.
After running around Mad Kings Labyrinth for a 2nd season I had the realization of how insignificant my skill bar was. I was just pressing whatever wasn’t on cool down in some cases. Combat improvement would help GW2 be better. Allow the players to solve problems in different ways besides simply dealing damage exclusively
It happens when you zerg or just generally in open pve.
From time to time I wish too, that there was a bit more depth than just knowing when to dodge.
I hope at one point they can break the whole DPS meta for PvE (read everyone runs zerker gear).
I’m pretty sure most people in fact do not run zerker gear. But please, use more hyperboles, they bring much needed arguments into a discussion.
It happens in dungeons too. It’s just a smaller damage zerg. Everything besides doing damage is so insignificant. I can’t blame people for running Zerker gear because that’s the optimal solution for EVERYTHING. There’s no heal, root or enmity shout that can significantly turn the tide of an encounter right now. If I see mobs are stuck to an ally I can’t say “HEY YOU OVER HERE… FIGHT ME!” I can’t root them long enough for my ally to get away I can’t heal an ally significantly either. Its literally kill it with fire or die and do it again. The mechanics that ANet tries to include in some fights don’t change any of this.
Taking on a responsibility is not a bad thing in MMORPGs. There doesn’t need to be a Holy Trinity, but there definitely should be Holy Strategy.
ArenaNet does NOT play Guild Wars 2. This can’t be.
@OP
I agree on first 2 points, about aggro and cc, and disagree about dodge. Dodge isn’t the only mechanic available to mitigate incoming damage, it also connects with defensive/healing cooldowns point of yours in a way, that, i think, problem lies not in those cooldowns being too long and/or not having enough dodges, problem is that supportive playstyle currently totally outshined by nuke-it-all-asap playstyle. This answers to your first question, yes — PvE combat is too dps-centric.
Does anyone else feel that combat is way too random, forcing the only solution of “just… do… more damage?”
Spot on. Exactly how it often feels. Good example are Aetherblade pirates trash packs in recent TA dungeons. DPS, CC and Confusion flies out of them in every direction like every second. You can’t outheal or outcc this stuff, but you can nuke this kitten asap.
The whole PvE system is set on only one pillar: Damage.
You can’t play as a tank, you can only choose to have more survivability for less damage. This won’t help the group.
You can’t play as a real healer, you can heal, but most time, the damage spikes are too random and you find yourself just spamming heals (sort of a healer, but it feels stupid as kitten).
You can’t focus on CC, because most bigger mobs don’t give a kitten about CC anyway.
You can just play as DD efficiently. So this game is a one trick pony. I don’t think ANet can fix this, or even the whole melee meta for stacking boons. It is more or less what we can expect for the future too.
Buffing conditions? Now you can do damage in two different ways, yay…
@OP
I agree on first 2 points, about aggro and cc, and disagree about dodge. Dodge isn’t the only mechanic available to mitigate incoming damage, it also connects with defensive/healing cooldowns point of yours in a way, that, i think, problem lies not in those cooldowns being too long and/or not having enough dodges, problem is that supportive playstyle currently totally outshined by nuke-it-all-asap playstyle. This answers to your first question, yes — PvE combat is too dps-centric.
Does anyone else feel that combat is way too random, forcing the only solution of “just… do… more damage?”
Spot on. Exactly how it often feels. Good example are Aetherblade pirates trash packs in recent TA dungeons. DPS, CC and Confusion flies out of them in every direction like every second. You can’t outheal or outcc this stuff, but you can nuke this kitten asap.
Thank you for responding. The dodge thing was something I thought about when observing how mobs behave. They have so little rhythm or timing to the things they do. There’s no reward for having good timing and spacing. It’s like you’ll time the perfect dodges only to get hit by a big attack the enemy decides it’s going to use on you 2-3 more times, or it’s some random silly AoE pattern on the ground that’s improbable to dodge otherwise. Players are given this base 2 dodge rule, but PVE doesn’t play by that rule. So the only solution is more health and kill it faster.
ArenaNet does NOT play Guild Wars 2. This can’t be.
I feel that lighter armored classes should have the ability to be more mobile and dodge a couple more times.
The flip side of that coin: I feel that heavily armored classes should not need to rely so much on dodging. Otherwise, what’s the point of being heavily armored?
Armor classes have absolutely no point in this game, besides splitting up the loot, so not everything is good for you (creating an economy and a broader (even though fake) crafting system).
Regarding aggro and " hate " – it’s not a good idea – this game was supposed to have no tank. And shouldn’t. The fact that mobs can randomly switch targets makes combat feel organic and alive.
Otherwise one class will be decided upon as the " boss handler " – he’ll keep the boss focused on him while all others afk/spam 1.
The " too random and chaotic " aspect you’re talking about is exactly how combat should be – organic and alive.
Perhaps you’re too used to other MMOs.
Regarding CC Skills – give those more punch in PVE and all bosses will be wrecked even sooner when zergs move in.
The dodge mechanic is fine. Between your two dodges and other skills that prevent/mitigate damage – ANY class should be fine in 90% of situations. If you’re having trouble that’s a personal issue – but the game shouldn’t change around that.
The healing skill thing is basically you asking for a more dedicated healer role.
So you’ve asked for a tank, and a healer to be put in the game instead of each player being an individual self-sustaining unit.
Basically you’re saying " make this game more like the other generic MMOs that I have played because it is too different and I cannot adapt" . Right?
If here they fall they shall live on when ever you cry “For Ascalon!”
The whole PvE system is set on only one pillar: Damage.
You can’t play as a tank, you can only choose to have more survivability for less damage. This won’t help the group.
You can’t play as a real healer, you can heal, but most time, the damage spikes are too random and you find yourself just spamming heals (sort of a healer, but it feels stupid as kitten).
You can’t focus on CC, because most bigger mobs don’t give a kitten about CC anyway.
You can just play as DD efficiently. So this game is a one trick pony. I don’t think ANet can fix this, or even the whole melee meta for stacking boons. It is more or less what we can expect for the future too.
Buffing conditions? Now you can do damage in two different ways, yay...
This is the kind of hopeless feeling I get when playing. I dedicated my time to 1 class and a little bit of 1 alt. I made the mistake of trying a build/gear that wasn’t "optimal" for the one trick pony game play. I didn’t know any better and ANet has made it clear by actions that I’M in the wrong for:
A) Not picking the highest damage class
B) Not grinding the "right" dungeon for the right damage/health gear
C) Having the audacity to play a supportive style
D) Having anything to do with Condition Damage
Survey Says:
[X][X][X]
I’d REALLY like to know how the devs feel about the combat at this point.
ArenaNet does NOT play Guild Wars 2. This can’t be.
No, he just realized that we have all been made one-dimensional in PvE, and that there are no roles, because the system is so shallow.
If everyone is doing the same, the game gets boring, and if the game gives you no choices, it will stay that way.
Players in RPGs like playing roles, this might come as a surprise.
Regarding aggro and " hate " – it’s not a good idea – this game was supposed to have no tank. And shouldn’t. The fact that mobs can randomly switch targets makes combat feel organic and alive.
Otherwise one class will be decided upon as the " boss handler " – he’ll keep the boss focused on him while all others afk/spam 1.
Mobs need enmity that can be manipulated by players. The ability to generate hate or grab mobs attention should be in game. Every class should have the ability or skill to increase or decrease “hate”. In turn mobs can maybe have a cool off period where enmity resets and needs to be rebuilt.
Regarding aggro and " hate " – it’s not a good idea – this game was supposed to have no tank. And shouldn’t. The fact that mobs can randomly switch targets makes combat feel organic and alive.
Otherwise one class will be decided upon as the " boss handler " – he’ll keep the boss focused on him while all others afk/spam 1.
The " too random and chaotic " aspect you’re talking about is exactly how combat should be – organic and alive.
Perhaps you’re too used to other MMOs.
Regarding CC Skills – give those more punch in PVE and all bosses will be wrecked even sooner when zergs move in.
The dodge mechanic is fine. Between your two dodges and other skills that prevent/mitigate damage – ANY class should be fine in 90% of situations. If you’re having trouble that’s a personal issue – but the game shouldn’t change around that.
The healing skill thing is basically you asking for a more dedicated healer role.
So you’ve asked for a tank, and a healer to be put in the game instead of each player being an individual self-sustaining unit.
Basically you’re saying " make this game more like the other generic MMOs that I have played because it is too different and I cannot adapt" . Right?
No. You’re absolutely wrong. That’s not what I typed.
Your whole last paragraph was your attempt at doing the whole “you’re not good at the game so get better” internet guy thing. So I’m not going to bother seriously responding to you. You’re probably saving up the "Go back to WoW’ retort for later. Don’t bother.
ArenaNet does NOT play Guild Wars 2. This can’t be.
Ah, man. You should avoid using word “suggestions”. And before suggesting anything you should put in your opinion, you know, bla bla bla about stuff, and only then make couple disguised suggestions. Mods are kinda following rules to the letter, so you need to learn to work around those rules, be tricky about it.
Regarding aggro and " hate " – it’s not a good idea – this game was supposed to have no tank. And shouldn’t. The fact that mobs can randomly switch targets makes combat feel organic and alive.
Otherwise one class will be decided upon as the " boss handler " – he’ll keep the boss focused on him while all others afk/spam 1.
Mobs need enmity that can be manipulated by players. The ability to generate hate or grab mobs attention should be in game. Every class should have the ability or skill to increase or decrease “hate”. In turn mobs can maybe have a cool off period where enmity resets and needs to be rebuilt.
whoosh
You do realize that once the enmity resets for the mob since the " designated boss holder" is the only one generating hate for aggro he’ll be the one focused again?
Or did you actually think that the optimal way would be for each player to hold the boss for a while while others dps?
You’re basically saying 5 hybrids are better than 1 tank 4 dps. In which case allow me to contradict you.
It would mean every player has to know how to stay alive and kite/manage the boss. While the other method implies one player doing that while others DPS.
Make no mistake – if this sort of mechanic is introduced what I described would be exactly what would happen.
If here they fall they shall live on when ever you cry “For Ascalon!”
Regarding aggro and " hate " – it’s not a good idea – this game was supposed to have no tank. And shouldn’t. The fact that mobs can randomly switch targets makes combat feel organic and alive.
Otherwise one class will be decided upon as the " boss handler " – he’ll keep the boss focused on him while all others afk/spam 1.
The " too random and chaotic " aspect you’re talking about is exactly how combat should be – organic and alive.
Perhaps you’re too used to other MMOs.
Regarding CC Skills – give those more punch in PVE and all bosses will be wrecked even sooner when zergs move in.
The dodge mechanic is fine. Between your two dodges and other skills that prevent/mitigate damage – ANY class should be fine in 90% of situations. If you’re having trouble that’s a personal issue – but the game shouldn’t change around that.
The healing skill thing is basically you asking for a more dedicated healer role.
So you’ve asked for a tank, and a healer to be put in the game instead of each player being an individual self-sustaining unit.
Basically you’re saying " make this game more like the other generic MMOs that I have played because it is too different and I cannot adapt" . Right?
No. You’re absolutely wrong. That’s not what I typed.
Your whole last paragraph was your attempt at doing the whole “you’re not good at the game so get better” internet guy thing. So I’m not going to bother seriously responding to you. You’re probably saving up the "Go back to WoW’ retort for later. Don’t bother.
Take me whichever way you want.
The bottom line is this – the game is not the problem here. The problem here are people trying to warp it into their own vision of what would be great.
For example – you might think the combat is chaotic and odd – but that exact combat system is what I love about this game. So if the combat changes you’ll like it more and I’ll like it less. There’s always a balance.
Why do you want the game to change so fundamentally?
If here they fall they shall live on when ever you cry “For Ascalon!”
No, it is the graveyard of threads that are too serious to get deleted but too provokative to stay on the main discussion, sorry… ^^
That sent me a pretty clear message (AGAIN). That’s pretty messed up. They ask for people to be constructive and when they are, threads get shuffled away from public visibility?
ArenaNet does NOT play Guild Wars 2. This can’t be.
Basically you’re saying " make this game more like the other generic MMOs that I have played because it is too different and I cannot adapt" . Right?
If the masses can’t (or won’t) adapt, adapt to the masses. See also: ascended gear.
/e Stanley Roper
It was cool when all five original members of Blue Öyster Cult would stand up at some point during the show and every one of them would play guitar, but if they’d done that for the whole show, well…
Regarding aggro and " hate " – it’s not a good idea – this game was supposed to have no tank. And shouldn’t. The fact that mobs can randomly switch targets makes combat feel organic and alive.
Otherwise one class will be decided upon as the " boss handler " – he’ll keep the boss focused on him while all others afk/spam 1.
The " too random and chaotic " aspect you’re talking about is exactly how combat should be – organic and alive.
Perhaps you’re too used to other MMOs.
Regarding CC Skills – give those more punch in PVE and all bosses will be wrecked even sooner when zergs move in.
The dodge mechanic is fine. Between your two dodges and other skills that prevent/mitigate damage – ANY class should be fine in 90% of situations. If you’re having trouble that’s a personal issue – but the game shouldn’t change around that.
The healing skill thing is basically you asking for a more dedicated healer role.
So you’ve asked for a tank, and a healer to be put in the game instead of each player being an individual self-sustaining unit.
Basically you’re saying " make this game more like the other generic MMOs that I have played because it is too different and I cannot adapt" . Right?
No. You’re absolutely wrong. That’s not what I typed.
Your whole last paragraph was your attempt at doing the whole “you’re not good at the game so get better” internet guy thing. So I’m not going to bother seriously responding to you. You’re probably saving up the "Go back to WoW’ retort for later. Don’t bother.
Take me whichever way you want.
The bottom line is this – the game is not the problem here. The problem here are people trying to warp it into their own vision of what would be great.
For example – you might think the combat is chaotic and odd – but that exact combat system is what I love about this game. So if the combat changes you’ll like it more and I’ll like it less. There’s always a balance.
Why do you want the game to change so fundamentally?
People are trying to warp the game into what ArenaNet presented the game as.
If you like how it is, go on about your business.
Don’t join in with your cliche “get better” “no you’re the problem” angle. Go zerg around and button mash damage. I don’t judge you for being simple.
ArenaNet does NOT play Guild Wars 2. This can’t be.
Arenanet never said you’d have tanks- aggro mechanics – or strong group healing.
I’m one of the people that watched out and read EVERY bit of new info about GW2 before it came out. I waited for it so long – so trust me when I’m saying – the game was not presented as what you think it was.
If you have a right to post on the forums about how the game should change I have a right to combat you because -in all fairness I think you are wrong.
The game can change and improve in a lot of ways – but what you are suggesting in my opinion isn’t a solution.
And it isn’t a cliche – you can get better, just that you’d rather not.
And the whole " you’re the problem" angle – is rather valid if you think about it. GW2’s population is increasing – if you count how many players are actually PLAYING the game and consider it to be just fine and how many players are trying to change it into some other generic MMO that is more based on spec and gear than reflex and ability – then you’ll have a few tens of thousands vs a few hundreds at best.
I’m not simple – but GW2 is not a complex game – and it never wanted to be one. That was clear when they dropped all the skills from GW1 ( thousands of skills) – which I assume you never played.
GW2 is oriented towards FAST paced action, reflex dodges – not complex builds and heavy theorycrafting. I like it that way. It’s more of an FPS than an MMO – but that’s what makes it good and unique.
If here they fall they shall live on when ever you cry “For Ascalon!”
And before suggesting anything you should put in your opinion, you know, bla bla bla about stuff, and only then make couple disguised suggestions. Mods are kinda following rules to the letter, so you need to learn to work around those rules, be tricky about it.
