(edited by Boolet.2968)
GW2 Hard Mode : How to make it work
Interesting, but asking Anet to remake a whole entire Tyria instance is probably asking too much of them.
Staunch Supporter of Mounts in Guild Wars 2. Gimme mah Fluffeh White Bunneh!!!
Give us Mounts, Anet! Pretty Please with Chocolate, Whipped Cream, Cherry and Mayonnaise? d^_^b
Give us Mounts, Anet! Pretty Please with Chocolate, Whipped Cream, Cherry and Mayonnaise? d^_^b
Interesting, but asking Anet to remake a whole entire Tyria instance is probably asking too much of them.
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Hard_mode
There’s a precedent. Doing it again for GW2 wouldn’t be any harder, honestly.
Essentially making the world stronger and making your character weaker is the same thing. (and I know that kind of stinks) But what if “hard made” was just a debuff for your character that gave like an extra 100% Magic find? Or whatever reward HM would offer. That way no one in the word is separated but you still get the challenge and higher rewards?
Essentially making the world stronger and making your character weaker is the same thing. (and I know that kind of stinks) But what if “hard made” was just a debuff for your character that gave like an extra 100% Magic find? Or whatever reward HM would offer. That way no one in the word is separated but you still get the challenge and higher rewards?
People would simply abuse that for Ktrains and such. Plus, the idea is to have a greater challenge. Changing the AI is the biggest challenge increase, not the reduction of stats.
Edit : Look at boss blitz as a great example of this. Why do instances fail? Because of uplevels, afk’s, etc. People would just use this form of “hard mode” like they do that.
Essentially making the world stronger and making your character weaker is the same thing. (and I know that kind of stinks) But what if “hard made” was just a debuff for your character that gave like an extra 100% Magic find? Or whatever reward HM would offer. That way no one in the word is separated but you still get the challenge and higher rewards?
People would simply abuse that for Ktrains and such. Plus, the idea is to have a greater challenge. Changing the AI is the biggest challenge increase, not the reduction of stats.
Good point.
I would much rather see it implemented the way it was in GW1. That is: you beat the game and gain a hard mode button on your UI. When this button is selected, entering any non-city map puts you in a hard mode copy of that map.
I think the concern from ANet’s end is probably splitting of the playerbase, though with the megaserver this isn’t really the issue it used to be.
I would much rather see it implemented the way it was in GW1. That is: you beat the game and gain a hard mode button on your UI. When this button is selected, entering any non-city map puts you in a hard mode copy of that map.
I think the concern from ANet’s end is probably splitting of the playerbase, though with the megaserver this isn’t really the issue it used to be.
That’d be simpler, but the reason why I like my idea is two primary reasons.
- Canon. Scarlet is canonical, she’s part of gw2 lore. Everything in gw2 is attempted to be explained, in one way or another. Why not shoehorn her into the source of hard mode? Perhaps that’s where she was portaling in her army from?
- Diversity. If you simply toggled and got access to the entire world in hard mode, you could easily and quickly go wherever you want. This method forces players to re-explore, and to start from random locations rather than simply rampaging around queensdale right away.
What’s wrong with going wherever you want? That was how it worked in GW1. Isn’t the idea that you’ve already earned access to those areas, and now you can face greater challenge in any of them at your leisure? You’d still have to redo map completion in hard mode, you could just do it where you pleased.
Anyway, are you really suggesting these perfected portal devices be the only way to access hard mode? That, even if I’ve uncovered the entire map in hard mode, the only way to get in is to spend 20+ ectos every time? And what if I want to do hard mode with friends? We all have to use our own portals, and get thrown to different parts of Tyria? No thank you.
What’s wrong with going wherever you want? That was how it worked in GW1. Isn’t the idea that you’ve already earned access to those areas, and now you can face greater challenge in any of them at your leisure? You’d still have to redo map completion in hard mode, you could just do it where you pleased.
Anyway, are you really suggesting these perfected portal devices be the only way to access hard mode? That, even if I’ve uncovered the entire map in hard mode, the only way to get in is to spend 20+ ectos every time? And what if I want to do hard mode with friends? We all have to use our own portals, and get thrown to different parts of Tyria? No thank you.
No, that’s for inital entry. Afterwards, you’d re-enter as you suggest. I’m merely liking the idea of a new start with a random seed.
I’m hesitant about this. The game very much depends on there being a lot of players together at the same time, for dynamic events to actually work. If you separate the playbase too much, that falls apart.
Hard Mode would be difficult to do in GW2. Even though it uses a modified engine from GW1, nothing else is the same. There is no way to make areas in GW2 HM because you would have to phase the areas and ESO has shown that it is a bad method (phasing in that games means everything is only solo able).
You are already scaled down to the area/dungeon so HM would gain you exactly NOTHING!!!!
Being totally instanced is the only way you can do HM safely and GW2 is not that way.
1 : Improved AI throughout all of tyria, enemies should react to aoe, target players more intelligently, attempt to interrupt key skills, kite players, etc.
So easy to write; so impossible to define or program. And what good does better AI do against a zerg? GW1 was instanced, so the number of players was fixed.
Why the watchwork-thing-a-ma-bob? Why does Hard Mode need to have some entry fee?
Just make Hard Mode a button on the Map to let a LVL 80 enter any Zone in Hard Mode. (like HM in GW1 used to work). Note that this will DOUBLE the number of active zones for Anet…..(which makes sense since they just consolidated all of them wiht MegaSever……hmmmm).
Everything scaled up to +80, Champions everywhere, Re-explore maps in Hard Mode….etc.
The computing power needed to drastically (or even slightly) improve enemy AI is astronomical even if the programming was as easy as typing, “better AI”….. Every enemy doing a dozen (or more) additional checks and subroutines is NOT free.
We go out in the world and take our chances
Fate is just the weight of circumstances
That’s the way that lady luck dances
Fate is just the weight of circumstances
That’s the way that lady luck dances
(edited by Brother Grimm.5176)
The biggest problem with making the game harder is casuals.
“It’s too hard, I can’t do it! Make it easier so I can mash 1. I buy gems therefore I am entitled to automatically beat it! I am entitled to all the rewards because I buy gems!”
^ Someone raging about Liadri actually said something like that.
Even if they’re told it wasn’t made for them they’ll ignore the warning.
ALL IS VAIN.
PvP modes are the “endgame” in all MMOs.
Stop failing at PvE, and fix WvW/SPvP. Thank you.
PvP modes are the “endgame” in all MMOs.
Stop failing at PvE, and fix WvW/SPvP. Thank you.
Rather than reinventing the wheel, a co-op survival mode instance would be more interesting. For those that remember GW1, there was Glint’s challenge (or something similar) where you had to defend her eggs against waves of destroyers with the waves progressively getting close to max levels.
Have something similar but with waves of Krait, Dredge (omg waves of dredge), Grawl, Destroyers progressively getting closer to champion and legendary class. Now that would be fun. I’ve always like the whole last stand thing.
I like the idea except for one thing.
- The random location inside hard mode.
I’d rather it transported you to the hard mode map at the current location your character is at.
Randomness and me are NOT very good friends !
That is to say the RNG Gods hate my guts.
Hard mode dungeons would probably be easier to implement, and more fun. No wps, no repairing, no leash mechanic on mobs. 3x the gold and tokens on completion. Boom!
How would you balance the “high” cost to enter (I assume this is a consumable device).
What happens upon leaving the map? Game could have crashed.
Do you envision a time-frame in which it should be feasible to re-earn what the entry had cost (in regards to the “increased” rewards).
How would you balance this, if at all, among the different kind of players? Should this time frame be an hour? Two? Maybe exclusive benefit for the 5 hours a session player?
Not against a “hard” mode setting. But it should be equally accessible, more how it seems to have been the case in GW1 as from what I read.
“Whose Kitten is this?” – “It’s a Charr baby.”
“Whose Charr is this?”- “Ted’s.”
“Who’s Ted?”- “Ted’s dead, baby. Ted’s dead.”
“Whose Charr is this?”- “Ted’s.”
“Who’s Ted?”- “Ted’s dead, baby. Ted’s dead.”
Scarlet’s Web
How about having it create a portal you and whoever you’re grouped with can use to enter a random dungeon filled with remnants of Scarlet’s Alliance?
Each dungeon would feature the Molten Alliance, Aetherblades and/or Toxic Alliance. Depending on the setup, it might just be one type, or more than one — though now that Scarlet is dead, they might be fighting each other, which would add some interesting possibilities.
The Twisted Watchwork Portal Device would only allow access to such a dungeon once every game day, but the dungeon would offer unique bosses and rewards not available elsewhere.
The dungeons themselves could use retooled maps from the Season One Living World releases.
“Not the same, real and true. True you feel inside.
Always follow what is true.” — Sentry-skritt Bordekka
Always follow what is true.” — Sentry-skritt Bordekka
Hard mode dungeons would probably be easier to implement, and more fun. No wps, no repairing, no leash mechanic on mobs. 3x the gold and tokens on completion. Boom!
That’s what I was thinking Hard Mode and Vanquish mode of dungeons.
Dungeon Hard Mode:
All weapons, armor, traits and Skills are locked upon entry and you cannot change them until exiting the dungeon.
Exiting the dungeon resets progress.
Make the dungeon scale for the number of players in the party. Current normal difficulty is for 1 player and it scales up from there.
No skipping any event encountered is allowed.
Vanquish Mode
Every mob in the dungeon path must be killed.
All bonus events must be triggered and completed.
Obviously the rewards for Hard Mode & Vanquish Mode would need to be worth it for people to consider doing them…so make it so that the dungeon chests are green or higher (no more blues) and the bonus for completing is a minimum of 3 gold.
If hard mode is to be implemented i cannot stress enough the necessity for new dungeon rewards such as unique skins for weapons, armor and back pieces. It would revitalize the dungeons.
More on this topic later.
If here they fall they shall live on when ever you cry “For Ascalon!”
How about new Hard Mode zones? They wouldn’t even necessarily have to be level 80+ zones (well maybe they should be idk). As ANet adds zones some of them could be HM instead of just HM versions of the current zones.
They could test out the new AI and implement it a little at a time by only having to focus on a single zone.
Why have people craft that portal? Do you have the components for them stashed in your bank to later sell for mass profits? I say ignore the need for items to access hard content and just focus on the hard content itself.
I think the only place Hard Mode will be remotely viable is for the dungeon instance.
You can unlock hard mode after completing all the explorable paths in Normal mode.
GW2 open world can’t have hard mode because it is quite pointless to revisit all WP again, plus that objective is still too easy to do.
1 : Improved AI throughout all of tyria, enemies should react to aoe, target players more intelligently, attempt to interrupt key skills, kite players, etc.
So easy to write; so impossible to define or program. And what good does better AI do against a zerg? GW1 was instanced, so the number of players was fixed.
EOTM old OG Keep bosses and RI prove to be the best way against mindless Zerg.
Make bosses invincible if people don’t seperate those bosses to a certain distance.
Add invincibility like Scarelet’s flame minion which people need to CC the mobs out of the ring in order to do damage.
Also, make those mobs as offensive as EOTM champions that if they’re invincible, they can literally destroy the whole zerg in an instance.
- Using the device, at current, transports you to a random location in tyria. Using it upon being upgraded, will instead bring you to a random location in HARD MODE tyria. Effectively functioning the same, but bringing you to hard mode.
I like this. I especially like the random location…perhaps there is another that takes you to a specific place of your choosing and one random. Random yields better rewards or costs less.
However, I think this should be more like a dungeon. You and your party are taken to an instanced map. The map itself can be a mirror with just the foes being as you described, maybe more champs (looooot!), maybe less waypoints, no merchants/npcs. Time to use those repair canisters, revive orbs, black lion trading merchants and bank access express!!!!! GW1 was setup similar…remember the candy canes/clovers to remove death penalty?
Leta Lorelei – Luwythea – Too many more to name
Jade Quarry
Jade Quarry
Hard mode maps/instances/dungeons would be great. Can’t see it ever happening though.
Who cares! Hard mode next your gonna want Vanquishing. Boring! It was in GW so it would be here.
my thought was; once level 80 you can opt somewhere to open Hard Mode. It does nothing for your surroundings, but rather gives you a debuff:
- Endurance halves recovery speed
- Crit chance is reduced by 33%
- Health and healing is reduced by 33%
- You are more susceptible to conditions
- You have an increased aggro (enemies from a greater distance will more likely target you)
pros:
- gold drop is increased by 5% up to 50copper per drop
- magic find is boosted by 25%
- Exp is increased by 10%
my thought was; once level 80 you can opt somewhere to open Hard Mode. It does nothing for your surroundings, but rather gives you a debuff:
- Endurance halves recovery speed
- Crit chance is reduced by 33%
- Health and healing is reduced by 33%
- You are more susceptible to conditions
- You have an increased aggro (enemies from a greater distance will more likely target you)pros:
- gold drop is increased by 5% up to 50copper per drop
- magic find is boosted by 25%
- Exp is increased by 10%
Yeah, I’ve suggested a similar system:
On achieving level 80, map completion, and dungeon master you unlock “hard mode”. This is an account wide toggle (bonus for alt players, and will get people out of EotM/crafting/CP levelling) that has the following effects:
1) Turns of all waypoints except those at map transitions. Player is returned to one of these on toggle.
2) Turns off armour rating (not stats).
3) Doubles duration of conditions on player.
4) Doubles XP from all sources.
5) Doubles Karma from all sources.
6) Adds a 100% boost to magic find.
7) Does not increase any bonuses at world bosses and other group events.
Additionally, all hearts, vistas, skill points, waypoints, and pois are reset (while toggled) to an account-wide “hard mode” completion. This mode includes achievements, and a new map completion reward and title.
Rough, but something like that?
Hard mode dungeons would probably be easier to implement, and more fun. No wps, no repairing, no leash mechanic on mobs. 3x the gold and tokens on completion. Boom!
And everyone that doesn’t do Dungeons (about 75% of the game population) gets left out of the new content? I certainly agree it would be easier to put in place (mostly due to a smaller volume of work), but it is not inclusive of the player base.
my thought was; once level 80 you can opt somewhere to open Hard Mode. It does nothing for your surroundings, but rather gives you a debuff:
- Endurance halves recovery speed
- Crit chance is reduced by 33%
- Health and healing is reduced by 33%
- You are more susceptible to conditions
- You have an increased aggro (enemies from a greater distance will more likely target you)pros:
- gold drop is increased by 5% up to 50copper per drop
- magic find is boosted by 25%
- Exp is increased by 10%
Sorry, but debuffing all LVL 80s to make the game harder is a terrible idea and completely counter to the concept of developing a more powerful character (sorry, but this is the reason most people play the game to start with). I get that the results may be similar, but the execution is NOT engaging for (most) players.
We go out in the world and take our chances
Fate is just the weight of circumstances
That’s the way that lady luck dances
Fate is just the weight of circumstances
That’s the way that lady luck dances