Guild Wars 2

After seeing the CPU specs for the PlayStation 4 and the rumored CPU specs for the Xbox 720. Anet will need to do a major rewrite of their game engine if they plan on porting it over to the next generation consoles or it will run even slower then it does on our PCs. The new consoles will be using the AMD jaguar 8 core processor that runs at only runs at 1.6 GHz. The last time I checked GW2 needs 2 cores running at 4.5Ghz+ to run good in PvP.

Is there even talk about them going to console? Even if it did it would be handled like Defiance or Diablo 3. No cross servers.

Architecture is more important than clock speed.

The best solution is not to bother at all, console ports are a bad idea by nature.

Unless you are blizzard have diablo for the console better than PC version.

Microsoft are really tight about control over the game network. Everyone has to be tied to their live account, no intercation with other platforms and networks. That’s why their’s no Dust for Xbox. Any Xbox MMOs are likely to be exclusives.

Tuck.4095:

Architecture is more important than clock speed.

The software still has to be written to take advantage of the Architecture.
Programming the game too only use 2 of the 8 cores of a processor is a waste.

Actually, the next generation consoles will be a huge improvement and a perfect time to start porting games over to. Its going to be x86 based, making ports significantly easier because there is less “learning” when porting or developing the games.

Unfortunately, the consoles indirectly affect graphics for pc games. The money is where the consoles are… so on reality most decent pc games are simple console ports.

I really hope this doesn’t happen, every console mmo was bad, i gotta admit though GW2 does have a console feel to it already with the tiny amount of skills and the UI..

Technical challenges would be less of an issue than stuff like having to pay MS $10,000 per update and then having to wait for the updates to go through verification. Having it on console would mean having to deal with a more constraints.

MS and Sony will probably want a cut of the money from microtransactions too.

I wouldn’t bet on GW2 porting to consoles. Most MMORPGs don’t. Why is this even a concern? This topic is way out of left field.

Both Final Fantasy 11 and 14 are/going to be playable on the PS3. I don’t see -any- reason why GW2 can’t be ported to PS4. The way FFXIV are handling skills for a PS3 controller is great too.

With how high graphics are for FFXIV, they still made a good port. AND all the servers for FFXI are cross-platform (PS2/PS3/PC/360) and FFXIV will have cross-platform servers.

Gw2 would be awesome on the PS4.. it would help bring so much more life into the world.. but on XboxNext.. it will be full of issues that Microsoft will create by wanting some special requests for giving them the rights to port the game.

Brehus.1258:

After seeing the CPU specs for the PlayStation 4 and the rumored CPU specs for the Xbox 720. Anet will need to do a major rewrite of their game engine if they plan on porting it over to the next generation consoles or it will run even slower then it does on our PCs. The new consoles will be using the AMD jaguar 8 core processor that runs at only runs at 1.6 GHz. The last time I checked GW2 needs 2 cores running at 4.5Ghz+ to run good in PvP.

That’s not how it works. Better get back to a techforum and do some research.

Keniption.6103:

Is there even talk about them going to console? Even if it did it would be handled like Defiance or Diablo 3. No cross servers.

Relay they are not going to be cross servers even games that are 6 years + like ff11 was crossed servers playing with ppl on the pc ps2 and xbox 360. If GW2 goes to the system i hope it is cross servers if they can i just hate that there is so much composition between the gaming systems that they will sacrifice the players enjoyment with other ppl to give them a leg up over the other systems.

This post presumes the silly idea that an mmo could run on a console.

It won’t happen. Many have tried, all failed. If anyone could do it, it would be arena.net but even they won’t manage I think.

Anet has already created a team to test the viability of port to consoles. This, however, was done before the new architecture was announced. This leads me to believe Anet is not against the idea of making a console port.

The question isn’t if it can be done but if it’s worth doing. I think it probably is, from the business side of things.

Naturally a lot of questions need to be answered, but if Anet could break into the console market, imagine the leap in sales.

Not everyone plays games on computers.

Vayne.8563:

Not everyone plays games on computers.

On one hand, RTS and MMO games don’t work on consoles.

On the other hand, until Halo 1, people said the same about FPS games.

I’m not sure there are any CPUs that run at 4.5 GHz stock… you’d have to be overclocking them to hit that. That said, part of the statement rings true: supposedly GW2 doesn’t make very good use of more than a couple cores or so, which means it wouldn’t run particularly well on the PS4’s chip without being substantially better optimized.

(This optimization, by the way, would make the game substantially faster on regular PCs as well.)

Have tablets and phones replaced consoles, PCs, and media set-top boxes yet? Methinks one day soon the video game industry will have to come to terms with that. Things like HDMI output, bluetooth, and especially DLNA over WiFi make it so that a tablet/phone could become a media gateway for the whole house one day. I think that’s going to happen and when it does, video games will suffer a regression in graphics quality and complexity for a while until the hardware catches up to current PC standards.

dinominator.9862:

Have tablets and phones replaced consoles, PCs, and media set-top boxes yet? Methinks one day soon the video game industry will have to come to terms with that. Things like HDMI output, bluetooth, and especially DLNA over WiFi make it so that a tablet/phone could become a media gateway for the whole house one day. I think that’s going to happen and when it does, video games will suffer a regression in graphics quality and complexity for a while until the hardware catches up to current PC standards.

… but then where will PC standards be by that point? Seems like it would be a never ending cycle of catch up.

Khisanth.2948:

dinominator.9862:

Have tablets and phones replaced consoles, PCs, and media set-top boxes yet? Methinks one day soon the video game industry will have to come to terms with that. Things like HDMI output, bluetooth, and especially DLNA over WiFi make it so that a tablet/phone could become a media gateway for the whole house one day. I think that’s going to happen and when it does, video games will suffer a regression in graphics quality and complexity for a while until the hardware catches up to current PC standards.

… but then where will PC standards be by that point? Seems like it would be a never ending cycle of catch up.

For retail customers and home users, desktop PC sales have declined. I think PC performance will eventually become a moot point except for commercial/academic use.

BTW, my generation will staunchly cling to what we know and like. I think it’ll be the younger generation of consumers (those in high school and college) that will more readily accept the changes. They do things differently. For instance, they don’t sit down to watch TV with undivided attention. They watch TV in the background while being online and doing other things.

FF11 and PSO did not fail, they were both console mmos. FF14 RR is pretty cool too and the control system is genius.

That said, you have to design it from the ground up. FF online plays similarily to the offline versions, in being a slow paced tactical game (the skill combos between players required good coordination)

The only issue with console mmos is the lack of power for massive battles, the reason Planetside2 isn’t coming to console. (ff11 and 14 did not focus on pvp, no pvp in pso either.)

PC will never stop growing in power, people pay for cutting edge :p

marnick.4305:

This post presumes the silly idea that an mmo could run on a console.

It won’t happen. Many have tried, all failed. If anyone could do it, it would be arena.net but even they won’t manage I think.

Really? Because last time I checked Square Enix and Sega accomplished that already. Should probably get a clue seeing as how you’re using the internet anyways.

So, what you’re saying is that you think it is terribly important that ArenaNet should start putting extra resources into seriously developing versions of GW2 for both PS4 and the next Xbox, so that they can capture the market of people who fulfill all the following criteria:
1) Purchased a PS4 or new Xbox system at launch
2) Have a compatible keyboard and mouse for that system
3) Have an interest in GW2 or MMOs in general, but are unwilling/unable to play on PC for some reason
4) Are fine with GW2 using a sizable amount of their system’s data storage space for future patches and updates
5) Have a dedicated internet connection for their system (seems like a given, but Microsoft has a tendency to make this difficult and/or charge extra for this)

And your justification for this idea is that you can name a couple of MMOs that have had console versions — one of which, Final Fantasy XI, was a major success in the long term. It also has several circumstances unique to it that GW2 doesn’t, not the least of which is a subscription fee to provide a steady stream of income.

In the case of Microsoft, I have read that they have a history of charging developers a hefty fee for every time they release a patch or update for their game — how do you think this is going to affect GW2, which updates frequently?

Also, not that I know anything about it, but if the original poster is to be believed, it will require “a major rewrite of their game engine” just to function on the new hardware. And it’s not like the PS4 and Xbox versions will be the same — they’ll each require separate kinds of changes and optimization.

All in all, porting GW2 to consoles (that aren’t even out yet) seems like a sharp uphill battle, and I’m not convinced that there is much (if any) profit to be had in doing so. If console ports of MMOs were such a solid bet, why haven’t more games done this? Heck, why hasn’t Blizzard, of all people, ported WoW over to consoles? Don’t they like free money?

The porting is pointless for the most part, not to mention the fees they have to pay on every sale… Why bother? It be one thing if it was already a console game going to PC/MAC…

dinominator.9862:

Khisanth.2948:

dinominator.9862:

Have tablets and phones replaced consoles, PCs, and media set-top boxes yet? Methinks one day soon the video game industry will have to come to terms with that. Things like HDMI output, bluetooth, and especially DLNA over WiFi make it so that a tablet/phone could become a media gateway for the whole house one day. I think that’s going to happen and when it does, video games will suffer a regression in graphics quality and complexity for a while until the hardware catches up to current PC standards.

… but then where will PC standards be by that point? Seems like it would be a never ending cycle of catch up.

For retail customers and home users, desktop PC sales have declined. I think PC performance will eventually become a moot point except for commercial/academic use.

BTW, my generation will staunchly cling to what we know and like. I think it’ll be the younger generation of consumers (those in high school and college) that will more readily accept the changes. They do things differently. For instance, they don’t sit down to watch TV with undivided attention. They watch TV in the background while being online and doing other things.

Not true. I’m in college, and I am certainly capable (and do quite frequently) of sitting down in front of the TV and just watch it without playing on the computer/phone/etc. Also, I prefer the PC over our PS3 and I avoid PS3 mmos. DC Universe Online, for example, is offered on both PS3 and PC and I prefer the PC version. You may be confusing this with the lower HS and under generation of kids, or perhaps I’m just in the minority.

Regardless, I can’t imagine GW2 being offered on either console. That’s not saying that ANet won’t do it, because it would probably be a financially smart decision (I have a friend who would play GW2 if it was offered on PS3) but I’m not sure how the functionality would work. If they could get a GW2 app, I’d be really excited for that.

VidGhost.3215:

Gw2 would be awesome on the PS4.. it would help bring so much more life into the world.. but on XboxNext.. it will be full of issues that Microsoft will create by wanting some special requests for giving them the rights to port the game.

it would bring… overflow.

dinominator.9862:

Khisanth.2948:

dinominator.9862:

Have tablets and phones replaced consoles, PCs, and media set-top boxes yet? Methinks one day soon the video game industry will have to come to terms with that. Things like HDMI output, bluetooth, and especially DLNA over WiFi make it so that a tablet/phone could become a media gateway for the whole house one day. I think that’s going to happen and when it does, video games will suffer a regression in graphics quality and complexity for a while until the hardware catches up to current PC standards.

… but then where will PC standards be by that point? Seems like it would be a never ending cycle of catch up.

For retail customers and home users, desktop PC sales have declined. I think PC performance will eventually become a moot point except for commercial/academic use.

BTW, my generation will staunchly cling to what we know and like. I think it’ll be the younger generation of consumers (those in high school and college) that will more readily accept the changes. They do things differently. For instance, they don’t sit down to watch TV with undivided attention. They watch TV in the background while being online and doing other things.

not true here either. 18 years old, I see no potential in consoles. At all. They are worse in specs, games for them cost more, plus you have to own a PC anyway. I can see consoles dying in the future. I can’t see the death of PCs though.

GW2 wont go to console.

/end thread

I don’t think it will hit either console, with good reasons for both. Like others have mentioned, M$ charges far out the kitten for updates and you have an $8 a month Live subscription. That’s a no go.

Which is really a dang shame because Xbox Live is a pay for, but working, version of PSN.

PS4 would be a better fit, by far, but at the same time you have to deal with Sony’s laggy servers, infrequent updates, and shoddy security practices.

Really they are better off just milking us PC dwellers, because both consoles have too many drawbacks to have a successful MMO at this time.

dinominator.9862:

Khisanth.2948:

dinominator.9862:

Have tablets and phones replaced consoles, PCs, and media set-top boxes yet? Methinks one day soon the video game industry will have to come to terms with that. Things like HDMI output, bluetooth, and especially DLNA over WiFi make it so that a tablet/phone could become a media gateway for the whole house one day. I think that’s going to happen and when it does, video games will suffer a regression in graphics quality and complexity for a while until the hardware catches up to current PC standards.

… but then where will PC standards be by that point? Seems like it would be a never ending cycle of catch up.

For retail customers and home users, desktop PC sales have declined. I think PC performance will eventually become a moot point except for commercial/academic use.

BTW, my generation will staunchly cling to what we know and like. I think it’ll be the younger generation of consumers (those in high school and college) that will more readily accept the changes. They do things differently. For instance, they don’t sit down to watch TV with undivided attention. They watch TV in the background while being online and doing other things.

Among people I know it’s actually the other way around. Everyone I know who has dumped PCs for tablets and phones is older than me, usually late 30s and up. Partially because they tend to be a lot more user friendly for people who never really got to grips with computers and don’t want to deal with things like running anti-spyware programs or picking and updating software when they could just switch the thing on and have a Facebook button right there at the start.

My mum even tries to insist that it’s a waste of money to spend £40 on a PC or console game when I could get an iPhone game for 69p, even though she knows kitten well (not that she’ll admit it) that it’ll last about 5 minutes.

I have to admit though I never did just watch TV. I was always doing something else at the same time (often playing my Gameboy/DS), until I pretty much gave up watching TV all together.

I remember reading somewhere that Anet has confirmed and said they had a small team working on a console version. That was last year though and whether or not they are still working on it is anyone’s guess really. Lets not forget Sony’s big purchase of Gaikai. Having Guild wars up in the clouds could mean no long downloads, the possibility of no downtime for patches and having the servers take the majority of the processing which could mean 60fps no lag huge WvW battles. (Not too certain on how Anet servers would work with a cloud gaming service, thinking outside the box here lol. Who knows that could just be how MMo’s of the future will be played)
IMO: As long as they focus on improving the game, I’m fine with having a team in the background doing this. Just means more people will be able to enjoy gw2. Like people have said, if anyone could pull off a console MMo it would be anet.

sources: http://massively.joystiq.com/2012/02/15/guild-wars-2-console-version-confirmed/

Justbob.5897:

I remember reading somewhere that Anet has confirmed and said they had a small team working on a console version. That was last year though and whether or not they are still working on it is anyone’s guess really. Lets not forget Sony’s big purchase of Gaikai. Having Guild wars up in the clouds could mean no long downloads, the possibility of no downtime for patches and having the servers take the majority of the processing which could mean 60fps no lag huge WvW battles. (Not too certain on how Anet servers would work with a cloud gaming service, thinking outside the box here lol. Who knows that could just be how MMo’s of the future will be played)
IMO: As long as they focus on improving the game, I’m fine with having a team in the background doing this. Just means more people will be able to enjoy gw2. Like people have said, if anyone could pull off a console MMo is would be anet.

sources: http://massively.joystiq.com/2012/02/15/guild-wars-2-console-version-confirmed/

cloud is not a good idea. What you get is latency issues with it. Even on single player games.

Fix the pc version before worrying about porting it to other mediums…

At one time GW2 has PlayStation setup to be a platform during development. What changed this I don’t know. Will they bring it back into the realm of possibilities? Only time will tell

Justbob.5897:

I remember reading somewhere that Anet has confirmed and said they had a small team working on a console version. That was last year though and whether or not they are still working on it is anyone’s guess really. Lets not forget Sony’s big purchase of Gaikai. Having Guild wars up in the clouds could mean no long downloads, the possibility of no downtime for patches and having the servers take the majority of the processing which could mean 60fps no lag huge WvW battles. (Not too certain on how Anet servers would work with a cloud gaming service, thinking outside the box here lol. Who knows that could just be how MMo’s of the future will be played)
IMO: As long as they focus on improving the game, I’m fine with having a team in the background doing this. Just means more people will be able to enjoy gw2. Like people have said, if anyone could pull off a console MMo is would be anet.

sources: http://massively.joystiq.com/2012/02/15/guild-wars-2-console-version-confirmed/

December 2012:

Have you ever considered porting Guild Wars 2 or making a console MMO, ever?

We had a small team that was investigating it at one time, and who knows what might happen someday. But right now our focus is on making the Guild Wars 2 PC experience the greatest MMO we possibly can, and that’s pretty much what all of our research and all of our company time is going into.

http://gamingbolt.com/guild-wars-2-interview-we-talk-to-areanet-about-how-the-mmorpg-has-been-doing-post-launch/2

Mirta.5029:

Justbob.5897:

I remember reading somewhere that Anet has confirmed and said they had a small team working on a console version. That was last year though and whether or not they are still working on it is anyone’s guess really. Lets not forget Sony’s big purchase of Gaikai. Having Guild wars up in the clouds could mean no long downloads, the possibility of no downtime for patches and having the servers take the majority of the processing which could mean 60fps no lag huge WvW battles. (Not too certain on how Anet servers would work with a cloud gaming service, thinking outside the box here lol. Who knows that could just be how MMo’s of the future will be played)
IMO: As long as they focus on improving the game, I’m fine with having a team in the background doing this. Just means more people will be able to enjoy gw2. Like people have said, if anyone could pull off a console MMo it would be anet.

sources: http://massively.joystiq.com/2012/02/15/guild-wars-2-console-version-confirmed/

cloud is not a good idea. What you get is latency issues with it. Even on single player games.

Oh, I know lol. Thats why I said future. I was thinking cloud would run perfectly if google does finish their Fiber project within a reasonable amount of time. Not holding my breath tho.

Clock speed is not important on game systems. They have light operating systems and don’t have the same overhead—trust me that won’t need to do a rewrite. In fact, for the xbox they will only need to recompile.

Not interested in Angry Guild Birds.

Dangbat.2804:

Clock speed is not important on game systems. They have light operating systems and don’t have the same overhead—trust me that won’t need to do a rewrite. In fact, for the xbox they will only need to recompile.

…which is plain wrong. People are constantly overestimating what consoles can do, they aren’t magic sauce devices, all the laws of computing apply to them too. A thread requiring a clock of >4GHZ won’t automagically be twice as efficient on a console so it completes in time at a clock of 2GHz, especially considering the consoles are using rather weak (compared to Intel’s architecture) Jaguar cores. They’d probably have to rewrite larger parts of the engine to make use of the consoles’ advantages.

Iruwen.3164:

Dangbat.2804:

Clock speed is not important on game systems. They have light operating systems and don’t have the same overhead—trust me that won’t need to do a rewrite. In fact, for the xbox they will only need to recompile.

…which is plain wrong. People are constantly overestimating what consoles can do, they aren’t magic sauce devices, all the laws of computing apply to them too. A thread requiring a clock of >4GHZ won’t automagically be twice as efficient on a console so it completes in time at a clock of 2GHz, especially considering the consoles are using rather weak (compared to Intel’s architecture) Jaguar cores. They’d probably have to rewrite larger parts of the engine to make use of the consoles’ advantages.

Maybe — but OTOH there is no M$ OS kitten eating cycles left and right so I’m pretty sure that on the same HW one can get much better performance, also consoles with their “fixed” HW allow programming nearer to the bare metal and that alone has chance to big performance boost.

[quote=1823649;nekitten234:]

An MMO on a console? Cause that always goes over well.

all my friends game on consoles so if this is released on consoles and is cross platform it could awesome sauce. One thing i hope next gen does that current didn’t is cross platform. I want to play on my pc against ps4 AND 720 players.

Brehus.1258:

After seeing the CPU specs for the PlayStation 4 and the rumored CPU specs for the Xbox 720. Anet will need to do a major rewrite of their game engine if they plan on porting it over to the next generation consoles or it will run even slower then it does on our PCs. The new consoles will be using the AMD jaguar 8 core processor that runs at only runs at 1.6 GHz. The last time I checked GW2 needs 2 cores running at 4.5Ghz+ to run good in PvP.

However, where in all the Heavens, Earths, and Hells did the developers ever say that they were planning on watering this game down and porting it to the consoles?

Take Defiance as a great example of how royally screwed over a console port MMO is. They have to have separate servers for each and every system, ones for the PC, ones for Microsoft’s platform, and ones for the PS4 (this is because they won’t sign agreements to allow users of their systems to interface with users of other systems). Next you have the issue with patch release for each system of which Microsoft is notorious about being buggered with patch releases on their system.

And no, with their system specs being what’s considered mid-range (from last year) at best, there’s no chance that A.Net is going to change around their game and rework the entire thing to try to sell to a different audience than their target one.

Nuka Cola.8520:

all my friends game on consoles so if this is released on consoles and is cross platform it could awesome sauce. One thing i hope next gen does that current didn’t is cross platform. I want to play on my pc against ps4 AND 720 players.

The problem with this is that consoles are very bad for gameplay. Most cross platform games are only watered down versions of what they could have been if they were designed for PC only. The main reason for this fact is that most console players just have/use a game pad which is, for most games, way inferior to mouse and keyboard.
A recent example for that is Defiance. The game itself is quite fun but the interface is clunky as hell and just screams console.

We might see more and more cross platform games in the future, but unless next gen console come with mouse and keyboard those games will either be not very good or console players will be at a disadvantage.

Consoles have mouse and keyboard support. Few games take advantage of this.

Fyrebrand.4859:

1) Purchased a PS4 or new Xbox system at launch
2) Have a compatible keyboard and mouse for that system
3) Have an interest in GW2 or MMOs in general, but are unwilling/unable to play on PC for some reason
4) Are fine with GW2 using a sizable amount of their system’s data storage space for future patches and updates
5) Have a dedicated internet connection for their system (seems like a given, but Microsoft has a tendency to make this difficult and/or charge extra for this)

1. The Guild Wars 2 Port to PS4 would be long after launch. I’m guessing 2+ years.
2. Any keyboard can be plugged into a PS3 and work. A $5 swap-meet keyboard works. If not, they have the separate keyboard attachment.
3. Wants to play GW2, unable to afford a proper gaming PC.
4. Considering GW2 right now takes up 17GB, and new consoles now come with a minimum of 160GB models, it isn’t that much. Also taking note that we might be able to upgrade our storage like we were able to for the PS3.
5. This is just a silly statement. If you want to play MMOs or online play, of course you’re going to have a connection.

If done correctly, one won’t even need a Keyboard for proper play. Using the triggers as modifier keys, and having Select as a way to open a new UI menu to access gear/inventory/map/ect (Like Final Fantasy 11), I don’t see why a maximum of 14 buttons couldn’t be bound to a controller.

Here’s a good example: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1YROM5NF7bCbkbJTsEvZ2XRPHZSYdtctkPzj9yo0zleI/edit

Khisanth.2948:

… but then where will PC standards be by that point? Seems like it would be a never ending cycle of catch up.

This is a really interesting question to me. Yes, full-size PCs will still be faster, because they don’t need to worry anywhere near as much about power consumption and heat, which allows manufacturers to put much more silicon into them. But… the same can be said for mainframes and the like; new ones are still faster than new PCs. Consumers don’t use them, however, because they’re too big, expensive, etc…

That may sound like a ridiculous comparison, but what I’m getting at is that ultimately people choose the form factor they do based on whether they meet their needs. Right now there are a lot of things tablets and phones just can’t do that people need to do, and that’s where PCs come in. But what about in 5, 10 years? PCs will still be faster than tablets, but the latter will probably be able to do most of what people need from a computer from a performance perspective. The extra power of a PC will probably still make a difference in high-end games, but a lot of people won’t need that. Will they start shifting to smaller devices en masse?

The straightforward answer is obviously “no”, because the fact remains: tablets aren’t great for many types of work. Nice for watching movies and reading websites; hopeless for typing and anything requiring precise input. But you could dock them into a station with a full-size keyboard/mouse/monitor and what then? If a tablet can become a PC, do you really need a PC?

From the point of view of gaming I don’t really know the answer – we’re nowhere near the point that computational power doesn’t really make a difference for the games people want to make, and that’s going to push toward the direction of keeping PCs (and consoles for that matter) around. But if everyone else doesn’t have a PC, just some plug-in tablet thingy, that means game developers are probably going to want to cater towards them anyway, which pushes in the other direction. Which brings me to another thing…

Mirta.5029:

cloud is not a good idea. What you get is latency issues with it. Even on single player games.

That. Well, eventually it may be, and that would solve the local device computational power problem. But streamed games from the cloud have a long, long way to go before they really satisfy anyone. They’ll need to run on much more local data centers (to minimize latency), which will require much faster internet/broadband networks to keep up, etc… it could become feasible in time but it may well take 10 years to get to that point. If the companies involved keep investing.

For me, cloud is more interesting because it seems like a no-brainer to build MMO backends on it. There are security/privacy problems to answer, but they’re not really hard ones – and it also gives you an infrastructure that doesn’t suffer the opening-day logjams practically every MMO suffers from. Without also giving you 200 servers you don’t know what to do with after it dies down. The fact that nobody does this makes me wonder if there’s a good reason for it that I haven’t come across yet, but… well, I haven’t come across it yet.