Guild Wars 2

Well, this is about the end game…

Mobs offer some form of danger when at lower lvls, but once lvl 80 is reached, mobs become “mobs that can’t kill you”.

I do wonder if some of the player feedpack is actually by farmers and grinders, but I have no proof regarding that.

Well, GW2 endgame is grinding.

• Gem store gets most updates with various items.
• You need to get gold to buy gems, so the way to get it is to grind.
• Mobs don’t fight back properly, super easy to kill on lvl 80, especially with only 1 type of build, which is DPS berserker.
• The RNG Success numbers are very low, due to easy to kill mobs, if the number were higher, then grinders would quickly gather all the items needed to craft every legendary there is.
• Open PvE looses most of it’s interest, not all, leaving some mini-games which depart from the GW2 combat mechanics.
• Content that is released so far have very low replay value. Most might replay them only to get the achievements, after that, I dunno.
• Mobs that come with the new content, will always use high HP-Low Armor design, which means any other combat mechanics which don’t involve dealing huge amount of Direct Dmg in burst, will never get enough damage dealt to fullfill the contributions on their own. Conditions, boon manipulations and etc. This applies mostly on open world PvE tho.

Have you ever been to the Silverwastes? I think the mobs of Mordrem would like a word with your last point.

I’m not going to disagree, the end game is grind….. For legendaries, for cosmetics, etc etc

However, I’m going to point out that the endgame for seemingly any mmo (at least any I’ve played) is grind. Take a step back and look at it objectively. Time gating and grind, that’s all it is.

I have bad news for you : The endgame in EVERY MMO is grind.

There are only different kinds of grind that attract different people. Personally i
prefer the different kinds of grind you can do here then the raid or die grind in
most other MMOs.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

I’m not going to disagree, the end game is grind….. For legendaries, for cosmetics, etc etc

However, I’m going to point out that the endgame for seemingly any mmo (at least any I’ve played) is grind. Take a step back and look at it objectively. Time gating and grind, that’s all it is.

Jip all MMOs have grind. Raid MMOs have you grind the same raid over and over and over. Other MMO might have you grind for money or something. MMOs are built on grind. Unfortunately the rate as which any studio can produce content will never match the rate at which players consume content. Thus grind, time gating, gear requirements, level requirements etc. are all used to stretch out the life span of the content (Raids in my mind still do this the best, since although you’re spending weeks fighting the same raid bosses no one seem all that conscious of the fact that they’re essentially grinding).

Grind exists for one reason. No group of developers can create content as fast as we can consume it. They put years working on Guild Wars 2, five years at least, and people had 80th level characters and a week and exhausted all the content in a couple of months. That’s because there was very very little grind at launch compared to now.

The thing is, without that grind, there was nothing left for people to do. Anet isn’t going to be able to make content fast enough, so they have to use artificial methods to slow things down like RNG and time gating.

Other MMOs lock out raids so you can only do one a week, use RNG on drops, but those raids are the only place to get that gear. Since I have no interest in raiding I have no interest in most MMOs.

Here I get to do what I want, and even if it’s not the most profitable thing, it usually eeks me towards what I want to get. I’m just patient enough not to grind it.

I saw the title of this post, and thought the exact same thing as the last couple of posters. Every single MMO, without exception, is a grind at endgame. That is just the nature of MMO’s. So it is really silly to complain about it in GW2.

@people saying all MMOs are grinding:

Not all MMOs say the following, though:

So if you love MMORPGs, you should check out Guild Wars 2. But if you hate traditional MMORPGs, then you should really check out Guild Wars 2. Because, like Guild Wars before it, GW2 doesn’t fall into the traps of traditional MMORPGs. It doesn’t suck your life away and force you onto a grinding treadmill

Our games aren’t about preparing to have fun, or about grinding for a future fun reward.

We just don’t want players to grind in Guild Wars 2. No one enjoys that. No one finds it fun.

Not all MMOs are grinding…

• Ultima Online before AOS
• EVE Online
• Archeage
• A Tale in the Desert
• Wurm Online
• Second Life

And any other sandbox game. Because sandbox games either will pit you against other players, so the endgame is to kill other players and conquer their open-world territory, or it is to do social engineering and become well-known and well-liked amongst other players, or it is to express yourself by creating the most awesome new constructions and content.

I would love to have sandbox features in Guild Wars 2. I kinda expected it to have that, and was very disappointed to find another grindy themepark game. I’ve been having a lot more fun with Archeage these past few months, but unfortunately that game has many bugs. For me the perfect game would have the combat system of Guild Wars 2, the class and equipment system of Guild Wars 1, the player housing and open world of Archeage and the territorial PVP and player-driven economy of EVE Online.

The end game is grindy only if you value quantity over quality of your play. If all you care is about acquiring the most legendaries, getting ultimate dominator in wvw and champion title in every class in in pvp then it will be very grindy indeed.

Alternatively, if you care more about things like flawlessly soloing a dungeon, being a WvW commander who can defeat enemies even when outnumbered, or winning organized PvP tournaments it isn’t a grind at all.

In short, if the game is checking off boxes to you it will be a grind. if the game is about improving your playskill, it won’t be.

Shakkara.2641:

Not all MMOs are grinding…

• Ultima Online before AOS
• EVE Online
• Archeage
• A Tale in the Desert
• Wurm Online
• Second Life

And any other sandbox game. Because sandbox games either will pit you against other players, so the endgame is to kill other players and conquer their open-world territory, or it is to do social engineering and become well-known and well-liked amongst other players, or it is to express yourself by creating the most awesome new constructions and content.

I would love to have sandbox features in Guild Wars 2. I kinda expected it to have that, and was very disappointed to find another grindy themepark game. I’ve been having a lot more fun with Archeage these past few months, but unfortunately that game has many bugs.

Okay all theme park MMOs are grind then. Silly comments considering it’s a completely different type of game and, for many, just a repetitive.

Filaha.1678:

@people saying all MMOs are grinding:

Not all MMOs say the following, though:

So if you love MMORPGs, you should check out Guild Wars 2. But if you hate traditional MMORPGs, then you should really check out Guild Wars 2. Because, like Guild Wars before it, GW2 doesn’t fall into the traps of traditional MMORPGs. It doesn’t suck your life away and force you onto a grinding treadmill

Our games aren’t about preparing to have fun, or about grinding for a future fun reward.

We just don’t want players to grind in Guild Wars 2. No one enjoys that. No one finds it fun.

That’s the best part though. Guild Wars 2 DOESN"T suck your life away forcing you into a grinding treadmill. Because in every single other themepark MMO I’ve played, every single one, paths to get ANYTHING were remarkably limited.

But in Guild Wars 2….you don’t need top tier gear to play the game and that makes a huge difference. Unless you want to do the highest tier fractals, which were designed for people who like to grind and enjoyed that play style, you can do everything in this game in exotics. Which doesn’t require grind.

It’s funny how when you don’t like a game, you’ll pull up old quotes to try to say that there’s something wrong with it. However, there was also an old quote by Eric Flannum talking about Guild Wars 2 having stuff to grind for for people who enjoy that play style.

To be fair, the grind in Guild Wars 2 is not nearly as bad as the grind in most other games I have played. And at least on this game, I usually don’t /feel/ like I’m grinding… and that’s the important part for me.
But yes, that’s an unfortunate MMO standard, and so far, I have yet to see anyone come up with a reasonable alternative to it.

The grind in GW2 is nothing compared to other games. You also grind for skins rather than gear. There’s ascended but it’s largely unnecessary unless doing high level fractals.

No matter what any developer of any game game does, they’ll always be cursed. Cursed if they try to stay away from grinding, some of the playerbase actually likes to grind for things. They call it “farming” I think. Cursed if they do, since the same argument keeps popping up. Also, if you look at the quote it says “grinding treadmill”. I’ve been using exotics for the better part of two years now. I solo dungeons. /shrug.

Edit..forgot about the kittens….had to change a word..

To me, the “grind” part of GW2 is pretty much all optional.

shrug It’s personal choice to chase those things. I don’t have to. I really can continue playing just as I am in my “easily obtained” exotics if I want. It’s not like I need to grind a raid ever week to get that next gear level just so I can move to yet another raid to grind for the next gear piece.

Shakkara.2641:

Not all MMOs are grinding…

• Ultima Online before AOS
• EVE Online
• Archeage
• A Tale in the Desert
• Wurm Online
• Second Life

And any other sandbox game. Because sandbox games either will pit you against other players, so the endgame is to kill other players and conquer their open-world territory, or it is to do social engineering and become well-known and well-liked amongst other players, or it is to express yourself by creating the most awesome new constructions and content.

I would love to have sandbox features in Guild Wars 2. I kinda expected it to have that, and was very disappointed to find another grindy themepark game. I’ve been having a lot more fun with Archeage these past few months, but unfortunately that game has many bugs. For me the perfect game would have the combat system of Guild Wars 2, the class and equipment system of Guild Wars 1, the player housing and open world of Archeage and the territorial PVP and player-driven economy of EVE Online.

Even in so called sandbox game you do the same thing again and again like killing other people. Especially AA is centered about gear. You have to grind to receive better gear.

Vayne.8563:

It’s funny how when you don’t like a game

Nobody ever said I don’t like Guild Wars 2, least of all me. If I didn’t like it, I wouldn’t be here.

I just disagree with Anet’s policies and apparent lack of effort in many sections of the game.

And that’s all I’ll be saying to you. Good day.

Shakkara.2641:

Not all MMOs are grinding…

• Ultima Online before AOS
• EVE Online
• Archeage
• A Tale in the Desert
• Wurm Online
• Second Life

And any other sandbox game. Because sandbox games either will pit you against other players, so the endgame is to kill other players and conquer their open-world territory, or it is to do social engineering and become well-known and well-liked amongst other players, or it is to express yourself by creating the most awesome new constructions and content.

I would love to have sandbox features in Guild Wars 2. I kinda expected it to have that, and was very disappointed to find another grindy themepark game. I’ve been having a lot more fun with Archeage these past few months, but unfortunately that game has many bugs. For me the perfect game would have the combat system of Guild Wars 2, the class and equipment system of Guild Wars 1, the player housing and open world of Archeage and the territorial PVP and player-driven economy of EVE Online.

I played EVE Online for a bit. You had a choice in what you did, missions, pvp, mining ore from some asteroid belt, some I can’t remember because it’s been too long. Anyway, you still had grind. You weren’t going to get the skills you needed to train your pilot in one shot. So you had to do stuff, over and over again, to get either the ISK to buy the skills, or find them. Some of those skills…sheesh. I do like how in depth the “auction house” was though. At least that’s what I remember. Every time I blew up my ship, it was back to mining ore, to get the ISK, to buy the same ship I had and outfit it.

Post Script..I’m the king of comma splicing. :p

Filaha.1678:

Vayne.8563:

It’s funny how when you don’t like a game

Nobody ever said I don’t like Guild Wars 2, least of all me. If I didn’t like it, I wouldn’t be here.

I just disagree with Anet’s policies and apparent lack of effort in many sections of the game.

And that’s all I’ll be saying to you. Good day.

So you like the game but you don’t like what Anet does to keep the game running. So noted.

Because reading the list of your posts, they read like one big complaint fest recently. I don’t think anyone reading your posts would think you like the game, but I think many reading your posts would see you as someone who is constantly attacking the game. Not in a constructive way either. For example, in this thread, your post isn’t really constructive, whether Anet said that years ago or they didn’t.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

To me, the “grind” part of GW2 is pretty much all optional.

Thats the part people simple don’t understand. You can simply stop playing if you
have done everything. You don’t need a legendary or asended stuff or expensive
skins to play any of the content.

In other games you have to grind through all the raid tiers if you want to see all
the content because without the gear of T1 you can’t do T2 and without T2 you
can’t do T3 .. and so on ..

Beldin.5498:

You don’t need a legendary or asended stuff or expensive
skins to play any of the content.

You don’t need ascended gear to do the fractals?

Filaha.1678:

Beldin.5498:

You don’t need a legendary or asended stuff or expensive
skins to play any of the content.

You don’t need ascended gear to do the fractals?

Technically 2 infused rings with agony infusions are sufficient

Lemme ask you this, what “endgame” that is not grinding would keep people playing after 2 years of the same content?

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Filaha.1678:

Beldin.5498:

You don’t need a legendary or asended stuff or expensive
skins to play any of the content.

You don’t need ascended gear to do the fractals?

Technically 2 infused rings with agony infusions are sufficient

Those are ascended. And still require “grinding” to either buy them or get useful ones as drops. I still have not gotten a useful (read as: applicable to any of my characters’ builds) ascended ring from a drop out of the dozen or so that I’ve acquired. And then more “grinding” to get the items to infuse them and then the infusions themselves.

cranos.5913:

Lemme ask you this, what “endgame” that is not grinding would keep people playing after 2 years of the same content?

That’s why you would make new content within 2 years.

Filaha.1678:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Filaha.1678:

Beldin.5498:

You don’t need a legendary or asended stuff or expensive
skins to play any of the content.

You don’t need ascended gear to do the fractals?

Technically 2 infused rings with agony infusions are sufficient

Those are ascended. And still require “grinding” to either buy them or get useful ones as drops. I still have not gotten a useful (read as: applicable to any of my characters’ builds) ascended ring from a drop out of the dozen or so that I’ve acquired. And then more “grinding” to get the items to infuse them and then the infusions themselves.

You don’t need full gear though. Not weapons. Not armor. Not even the back piece, and as many fractal runners have told me you can get your rings easily from just playing the fractals, not “grinding” them. You can get your first ring after hitting lvl 10, since you’ll have 10 pristine from getting to that point.

Still if you’re doing fractals in the first place, grind obviously isn’t an issue to you because grinding is their designated intent.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Filaha.1678:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Filaha.1678:

Beldin.5498:

You don’t need a legendary or asended stuff or expensive
skins to play any of the content.

You don’t need ascended gear to do the fractals?

Technically 2 infused rings with agony infusions are sufficient

Those are ascended. And still require “grinding” to either buy them or get useful ones as drops. I still have not gotten a useful (read as: applicable to any of my characters’ builds) ascended ring from a drop out of the dozen or so that I’ve acquired. And then more “grinding” to get the items to infuse them and then the infusions themselves.

You don’t need full gear though. Not weapons. Not armor. Not even the back piece, and as many fractal runners have told me you can get your rings easily from just playing the fractals, not “grinding” them. You can get your first ring after hitting lvl 10, since you’ll have 10 pristine from getting to that point.

Still if you’re doing fractals in the first place, grind obviously isn’t an issue to you because grinding is their designated intent.

I never said that a full outfit was required, nor did the person I responded to regarding needing ascended gear to do fractals. All that was said was that ascended equipment wasn’t needed to play any of the content. Or, to be more accurate, “asended (sic) stuff”.

Every game is grind. Every. Single. One.

It’s always about refining and repeating your actions.

If you’re noticing it, then maybe it’s because you’re playing simply to get some kind of status symbol, or reward, rather than for the enjoyment you get from the game. At that point you have two options:

1) Stop playing the game just for the reward.
2) Stop playing the game.

There are not many advantages to games beyond fun. No-one will really care if you get a full set of legendaries at a job interview in a few years, nor will your grandchildren be captivated by the story of you running around the Labyrinth for the 50th time in a day. So if you’re not having fun anymore, go and do something that IS fun. Maybe that’s another aspect of GW2 (I personally stopped playing GW2 for a couple of months, then I ended up getting into organized WvW guild raids), maybe it’s another game, maybe it’s even another hobby. Just stop with the ‘game too grindy’ stuff – the game has been made so that nearly all of the content is very easily accessible – the only ‘grind’ is for the shinies which simply aren’t needed. The game is fine- there’s huge amounts of content for the asking price, and it’s being expanded regularly piece by piece – but everything has a finite entertainment value. If a game has become ‘grind’, you’ve simply exhausted the entertainment value of the game in question.

I guess a vague equivalent from another medium would be like asking someone to watch a random subset of 6 Futurama episodes every day for a year in order to gain a badge saying ‘I <3 Futurama’. Eventually, no matter how much they originally love the series, they would get bored. It’s inevitable. But for some reason people seem to think games, especially MMOs, should provide infinite entertainment value o.O They can’t!

I’ll look at it this way.. a new toon just gets to 80 and wants exotic zerker gear…
There are multiple ways of acquiring this

Dungeon farming for tokens-Timegating, long token grind, free gear
Karma Gear- Karma grind, 42k per piece, expensive for new accounts, non salvagable
WvW Gear- Badges of honor required + gold, grind, non salvagable
Crafting- Expensive mats, requires gold + mat grind, including costs to level up the craft

Trinkets-
*Ascended requires timegated laurels, and/or laurels plus badges of honor, in the case of ascended accessories 12guild commendations + 5gold per, or combination of laurels and too many ectos.
*Exotic requires dungeons(token grind gold), trading post (gold), crafting (gold mats to level craft).

Gold to gems ratio is very high also forcing many people to gold grind endlessly

The costs of gearing up a toon is very high so yea there is a good amount of grinding required, but look that’s how it should be. Why else would you play if there was nothing to do, they have to give you something to do and to work for, otherwise what’s the point. Also some people just enjoy grinding, they need something to work towards.

So there is grind anyway you look at it, but that’s in any game if you don’t have the gold, don’t be one of those people who right away needs to have a legendary, your going to burn yourself out, seen it many times. Just try to have fun and focusing on building up and learning your toons.

Filaha.1678:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Filaha.1678:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Filaha.1678:

Beldin.5498:

You don’t need a legendary or asended stuff or expensive
skins to play any of the content.

You don’t need ascended gear to do the fractals?

Technically 2 infused rings with agony infusions are sufficient

Those are ascended. And still require “grinding” to either buy them or get useful ones as drops. I still have not gotten a useful (read as: applicable to any of my characters’ builds) ascended ring from a drop out of the dozen or so that I’ve acquired. And then more “grinding” to get the items to infuse them and then the infusions themselves.

You don’t need full gear though. Not weapons. Not armor. Not even the back piece, and as many fractal runners have told me you can get your rings easily from just playing the fractals, not “grinding” them. You can get your first ring after hitting lvl 10, since you’ll have 10 pristine from getting to that point.

Still if you’re doing fractals in the first place, grind obviously isn’t an issue to you because grinding is their designated intent.

I never said that a full outfit was required, nor did the person I responded to regarding needing ascended gear to do fractals. All that was said was that ascended equipment wasn’t needed to play any of the content. Or, to be more accurate, “asended (sic) stuff”.

I will concede the point that fractals 10+ “require” ascended. However, I still stand by the assessment that if you’re playing fractals, grind obviously isn’t an issue for you. They were added specifically for that type of people.

Filaha.1678:

@people saying all MMOs are grinding:

Not all MMOs say the following, though:

So if you love MMORPGs, you should check out Guild Wars 2. But if you hate traditional MMORPGs, then you should really check out Guild Wars 2. Because, like Guild Wars before it, GW2 doesn’t fall into the traps of traditional MMORPGs. It doesn’t suck your life away and force you onto a grinding treadmill

Our games aren’t about preparing to have fun, or about grinding for a future fun reward.

We just don’t want players to grind in Guild Wars 2. No one enjoys that. No one finds it fun.

Wow GW2 has a grinding treadmill now? Since when?
So you need to “prepare” to have fun in GW2? Really? The moment you reach level 80 you can do anything in the game (other than high tier fractals) without ever “preparing to have fun” as in “grinding for better stats to be able to go further”

Get your facts straight, what they said is actually true.

maddoctor.2738:

Filaha.1678:

@people saying all MMOs are grinding:

Not all MMOs say the following, though:

So if you love MMORPGs, you should check out Guild Wars 2. But if you hate traditional MMORPGs, then you should really check out Guild Wars 2. Because, like Guild Wars before it, GW2 doesn’t fall into the traps of traditional MMORPGs. It doesn’t suck your life away and force you onto a grinding treadmill

Our games aren’t about preparing to have fun, or about grinding for a future fun reward.

We just don’t want players to grind in Guild Wars 2. No one enjoys that. No one finds it fun.

Wow GW2 has a grinding treadmill now? Since when?
So you need to “prepare” to have fun in GW2? Really? The moment you reach level 80 you can do anything in the game (other than high tier fractals) without ever “preparing to have fun” as in “grinding for better stats to be able to go further”

Get your facts straight, what they said is actually true.

Get a Legendary without any grinding and without spending real money.

Go.

Get ascended equipment without grinding and without spending real money.

Go.

Able to do things =/= no grinding.

I can name plenty of MMOs where you can do everything (except high-end raiding, since you’re not counting fractals in ‘everything’) without grinding too. I didn’t have to grind to take part in “everything except high end raids” in WoW, for example.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

I will concede the point that fractals 10+ “require” ascended. However, I still stand by the assessment that if you’re playing fractals, grind obviously isn’t an issue for you. They were added specifically for that type of people.

I wouldn’t concede that if I were you. You can reach level 19 without any AR without much problem. I put my first infusion at level 17. Anyway in the end you can complete ALL the content in fractal at level 1 so there is no content that require ascended gear.

But it was even better when Fractal came out. You couldn’t have enough AR to do more than level 39, so in level 40+ with or wihtout AR it changed nothing, you were one shot anyway by agony (there was some little trick, but it wasn’t about AR). Back then, AR was only view as training wheels for ppl that wanted to have an easy time in mid level fractal (20-30). Now I’m nostalgic.

Filaha.1678:

maddoctor.2738:

Filaha.1678:

@people saying all MMOs are grinding:

Not all MMOs say the following, though:

So if you love MMORPGs, you should check out Guild Wars 2. But if you hate traditional MMORPGs, then you should really check out Guild Wars 2. Because, like Guild Wars before it, GW2 doesn’t fall into the traps of traditional MMORPGs. It doesn’t suck your life away and force you onto a grinding treadmill

Our games aren’t about preparing to have fun, or about grinding for a future fun reward.

We just don’t want players to grind in Guild Wars 2. No one enjoys that. No one finds it fun.

Wow GW2 has a grinding treadmill now? Since when?
So you need to “prepare” to have fun in GW2? Really? The moment you reach level 80 you can do anything in the game (other than high tier fractals) without ever “preparing to have fun” as in “grinding for better stats to be able to go further”

Get your facts straight, what they said is actually true.

Get a Legendary without any grinding and without spending real money.

Go.

Get ascended equipment without grinding and without spending real money.

Go.

Able to do things =/= no grinding.

I can name plenty of MMOs where you can do everything (except high-end raiding, since you’re not counting fractals in ‘everything’) without grinding too. I didn’t have to grind to take part in “everything except high end raids” in WoW, for example.

you just want legendaries/ascended…which are not really necessary, for nothing??? Like no work required at all? You just want everything handed to you? and Fyi if you need to spend RL money on them, your doing it all wrong, I’ve crafted multiples of both and never spent one penny aside from buying the game ofc. I don’t know what the heck your talking about needing to spend rl cash to get legendaries and ascended.

X T D.6458:

Filaha.1678:

maddoctor.2738:

Filaha.1678:

@people saying all MMOs are grinding:

Not all MMOs say the following, though:

So if you love MMORPGs, you should check out Guild Wars 2. But if you hate traditional MMORPGs, then you should really check out Guild Wars 2. Because, like Guild Wars before it, GW2 doesn’t fall into the traps of traditional MMORPGs. It doesn’t suck your life away and force you onto a grinding treadmill

Our games aren’t about preparing to have fun, or about grinding for a future fun reward.

We just don’t want players to grind in Guild Wars 2. No one enjoys that. No one finds it fun.

Wow GW2 has a grinding treadmill now? Since when?
So you need to “prepare” to have fun in GW2? Really? The moment you reach level 80 you can do anything in the game (other than high tier fractals) without ever “preparing to have fun” as in “grinding for better stats to be able to go further”

Get your facts straight, what they said is actually true.

Get a Legendary without any grinding and without spending real money.

Go.

Get ascended equipment without grinding and without spending real money.

Go.

Able to do things =/= no grinding.

I can name plenty of MMOs where you can do everything (except high-end raiding, since you’re not counting fractals in ‘everything’) without grinding too. I didn’t have to grind to take part in “everything except high end raids” in WoW, for example.

you just want legendaries/ascended…which are not really necessary, for nothing??? Like no work required at all? You just want everything handed to you?

Where did I say that? Please point that out to me.

Filaha.1678:

Beldin.5498:

You don’t need a legendary or asended stuff or expensive
skins to play any of the content.

You don’t need ascended gear to do the fractals?

AFAIK you don’t need any ascended items for lowest level fractals .. a friend recently
played them even with a level 2 character.

And higher fractal levels are not different content in my eyes. So you can experience
all content without ascended.

Also ascended and fractals were in the end only implemented for people who NEED
those kind of grind .. i never played them at all.

Filaha.1678:

maddoctor.2738:

Filaha.1678:

@people saying all MMOs are grinding:

Not all MMOs say the following, though:

So if you love MMORPGs, you should check out Guild Wars 2. But if you hate traditional MMORPGs, then you should really check out Guild Wars 2. Because, like Guild Wars before it, GW2 doesn’t fall into the traps of traditional MMORPGs. It doesn’t suck your life away and force you onto a grinding treadmill

Our games aren’t about preparing to have fun, or about grinding for a future fun reward.

We just don’t want players to grind in Guild Wars 2. No one enjoys that. No one finds it fun.

Wow GW2 has a grinding treadmill now? Since when?
So you need to “prepare” to have fun in GW2? Really? The moment you reach level 80 you can do anything in the game (other than high tier fractals) without ever “preparing to have fun” as in “grinding for better stats to be able to go further”

Get your facts straight, what they said is actually true.

Get a Legendary without any grinding and without spending real money.

Go.

Get ascended equipment without grinding and without spending real money.

Go.

Able to do things =/= no grinding.

I can name plenty of MMOs where you can do everything (except high-end raiding, since you’re not counting fractals in ‘everything’) without grinding too. I didn’t have to grind to take part in “everything except high end raids” in WoW, for example.

Reread what you quoted first then. Go.

It doesn’t suck your life away and force you onto a grinding treadmill

Where is the treadmill? It doesn’t exist.

Our games aren’t about preparing to have fun, or about grinding for a future fun reward*

Where is your preparation for doing anything? Even for Fractals by the time you are required to have AR you will already have the rings with the stats you want. Grinding for a future reward? That requires high end fractals to actually HAVE something unique (a future fun reward) but it doesn’t

So reread what you yourself quoted and then post again. Go.

You can’t even compare a real treadmill, going from raid gear kitten raid gear T2 to raid gear T3 (what’s the current higher tier gear in WoW btw?) with the ascended requirements for fractals, even the highest level of fractals is doable with a minimum amount of gear, gear that you will already have by the point you reach it.

Filaha.1678:

I can name plenty of MMOs where you can do everything (except high-end raiding, since you’re not counting fractals in ‘everything’) without grinding too. I didn’t have to grind to take part in “everything except high end raids” in WoW, for example.

Also, let’s have a laugh here. How high of a percentage of GW2 is high level (let’s say 40+) Fractals and how much of the game are the Raids of WoW, or other similar raiding games?

Go, compare the two. Go

I must not be playing the same game as the OP, but the only thing that zerker ever did for me was to get me dead faster. Apparently mordrem bleeds and Orr mobs that crap tons of DoTs on you is something that just kinda falls off and doesn’t do any damage? I tend to think the PvE mobs are more “cheap” killers than easy, but again, i must be playing a different game…

maddoctor.2738:

Where is the treadmill? It doesn’t exist.

I already mentioned it. Legendaries.

Exactly as necessary to the game as raid gear is to other games.

In other words, only as necessary as the player chooses. If there’s no mandatory grind here, there’s no mandatory grind in any MMO.

Thaddeus.4891:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

I will concede the point that fractals 10+ “require” ascended. However, I still stand by the assessment that if you’re playing fractals, grind obviously isn’t an issue for you. They were added specifically for that type of people.

I wouldn’t concede that if I were you. You can reach level 19 without any AR without much problem. I put my first infusion at level 17. Anyway in the end you can complete ALL the content in fractal at level 1 so there is no content that require ascended gear.

But it was even better when Fractal came out. You couldn’t have enough AR to do more than level 39, so in level 40+ with or wihtout AR it changed nothing, you were one shot anyway by agony (there was some little trick, but it wasn’t about AR). Back then, AR was only view as training wheels for ppl that wanted to have an easy time in mid level fractal (20-30). Now I’m nostalgic.

haha do note that i specified 10+ and required is in quotes.

I played this game since launch, with a break of maybe half a year. Time I spend grinding: Less than 0.1%. I grinded some dragonit ore, and thats it.

I have a bunch of rare exotic weapons and armors (vision of the mist, a few gemshop armors that were expensive, stuff like that) and enough ascended equipment to do fractals of almost any level.

And I have still ~600g in the bank. I won’t get a legendary, but everything else is well in my grasp, without grinding or trading.

If you think that grinding is nesessary in this game, then you’re doing it wrong, sorry.

Filaha.1678:

maddoctor.2738:

Where is the treadmill? It doesn’t exist.

I already mentioned it. Legendaries.

Exactly as necessary to the game as raid gear is to other games.

In other words, only as necessary as the player chooses. If there’s no mandatory grind here, there’s no mandatory grind in any MMO.

But that’s where you are wrong. There in NOTHING in this game that requires a Legendary. In other games, you must gear up in T1 raiding (which is a grind) to even get to see the next tier. It goes on and on. If you don’t admit that, then you are just trolling.

Vayne.8563:

Grind exists for one reason. No group of developers can create content as fast as we can consume it. They put years working on Guild Wars 2, five years at least, and people had 80th level characters and a week and exhausted all the content in a couple of months. That’s because there was very very little grind at launch compared to now.

- Games don’t need to be grind. Grind happens when game developers get the anti-humanistic mentality that the player should be “rewarded” for doing tasks in a game that is built to be simple and monotonous. Because the game is simple, you can easily create lots of content without worrying about depth.

Take a look at many first-person shooter games. You could be playing the same map over and over, but experience it differently each time you play. What about fighting games? The player’s actions make up the game, as opposed to going through the hoops set by developer.

Shakkara.2641:

Not all MMOs are grinding…

• Ultima Online before AOS
• EVE Online
• Archeage
• A Tale in the Desert
• Wurm Online
• Second Life

And any other sandbox game. Because sandbox games either will pit you against other players, so the endgame is to kill other players and conquer their open-world territory, or it is to do social engineering and become well-known and well-liked amongst other players, or it is to express yourself by creating the most awesome new constructions and content.

I would love to have sandbox features in Guild Wars 2. I kinda expected it to have that, and was very disappointed to find another grindy themepark game. I’ve been having a lot more fun with Archeage these past few months, but unfortunately that game has many bugs. For me the perfect game would have the combat system of Guild Wars 2, the class and equipment system of Guild Wars 1, the player housing and open world of Archeage and the territorial PVP and player-driven economy of EVE Online.

I’ll speak to the ones I know …

EvE Online: very grindy unless you go right to an alliance and PvP. Even then mining runs and building ISK via ‘rat farming is a huge grind. At least in zero space it’s somewhat tolerable but that’s for the elite few that make it out there. For the rank and file or new players (really new, not alts) you either go mining or grind your security level up from 1 to 4 so you can get the good missions. I will grant you it’sa great player driven economy though (I own several T2 BPOs).

ArcheAge: same grind as FFXIV and all other MMOs so sorry, not going to agree there. The player owned land and housing was a great idea .. that they botched completely. If Anet were ever to think of implementing that in GW2 then they should look to that as a cautionary tail of what not to do.

GW2 is not very grindy at all but it depends on how you play. Some see the next shiny and do whatever it takes to get it thus making GW2 somewhat on the grindy side. Others just play the game and naturally progress making it more organic while missing almost nothing and not needing that shiny new armor set to continue to play they way they want. I think GW2 did an admiral job of creating a world where it’s up to you to decide which game style you want to play.

Peace.

Funny thing, I absolutely do not grind in GW2. When I play, I play as much or as little as I like, then stop if I get tired or am losing interest. GW2 is different enough from other MMO’s that I enjoy the game play. Other MMO’s, actually playing the game seems tedious after a certain point — which is usually about halfway through the leveling process.

There are long-term goals in GW2. Some players actually seem to like that sort of thing in an MMO. Others seem to want to get to the goal, but don’t like the process. For me, Ascended trinkets I can get just by playing as I like and being patient. Weapons and armor require crafting, which I find tedious and boring. So, no weapons or armor for me.

It’s a simple equation. If you choose to grind, you’ll experience grind. If you play for the goals that were put in for those who like to and want to “work” for a long-term goal, but don’t like the process, you will experience grind. This is true in any game. What GW2 has done is to allow you to choose that play-style if you want it, and to avoid it if you don’t with little to no impact on your ability to enjoy the game.

Take responsibility for your choices. If you’re grinding in this game, then you’re choosing to.

what endgame? gw2 doesn’t have endgame. Well it does if you count ridiculously easy dungeons/fractals which a blind monkey could do in his sleep then sure… gw2 has kittenty endgame.

Filaha.1678:

maddoctor.2738:

Where is the treadmill? It doesn’t exist.

I already mentioned it. Legendaries.

Exactly as necessary to the game as raid gear is to other games.

In other words, only as necessary as the player chooses. If there’s no mandatory grind here, there’s no mandatory grind in any MMO.

Legendary isn’t a gear treadmill. You are not required to have a legendary to do anything in the game, but in a raid game you need the previous tier raid gear to progress to the next. So to do higher tier raids you need the previous tier gear, and that’s where the phrase “gear treadmill” comes from. Also, expansions and updates offer the next tiers, so you need to grind again and again to stay current.

By definition, Legendary weapons are max tier, and will stay max tier regardless of how many expansions are released (or so they say) so be definition there is no gear treadmill, exactly as the devs said.

Treadmill =/= grinding

On the subject of mandatory grind:
How many new raids are being released every year for a raiding game? How many raids have been released only in the last 2 years for “raiding game A”? And to see the next raid you need to play the first, you are locked and can’t even progress. Although it’s not mandatory to run raids, it is ACTUAL content in the game with story and new rewards.

Legendaries on the other hand are different. You don’t craft them because you must, they offer just a convenience over Ascended (no higher stats) and they are not content by themselves unless you call content a shinny piece of 1s and 0s. They have absolutely no story behind them, no lore, no actual content, you get their components by playing any part of the game.

There is a difference between non-mandatory CONTENT, and just a couple of item skins. If those legendaries were only available in a raid-style content then yes they would be the same, but they are not.

Filaha.1678:

maddoctor.2738:

Where is the treadmill? It doesn’t exist.

I already mentioned it. Legendaries.

Exactly as necessary to the game as raid gear is to other games.

Absolutely false! It could be argued that Ascended might be needed at the very high level of Fractals but not Legendaries.

Filaha.1678:

In other words, only as necessary as the player chooses. If there’s no mandatory grind here, there’s no mandatory grind in any MMO.

Sorry but there are grindy MMOs due to needing that ubber raid armor to actually succeed. The amount of that kind of content in GW2 is a very small fraction and most will never see it and again it only really applies to Acsended armor/weapon which are crafted and not dependent on rare drops to make, unlike most other MMOs out there.

Peace.

MachineManXX.9746:

There in NOTHING in this game that requires a Legendary. In other games, you must gear up in T1 raiding (which is a grind) to even get to see the next tier.

maddoctor.2738:

Legendary isn’t a gear treadmill. You are not required to have a legendary to do anything in the game, but in a raid game you need the previous tier raid gear to progress to the next.

Like I said, which you both quoted and ignored, raid gear is only necessary if one cares about raiding, just as agony infusions are only necessary if one cares about fractals and Legendaries are only necessary if one cares about getting shinies.

By the logic of “It’s not mandatory if it’s not something you want”, then there is no such thing as mandatory grinding.

so be definition there is no gear treadmill, exactly as the devs said.

They didn’t say “Gear” treadmill.