Guild Wars 2

I’m mostly talking about limitations on ranger traps, engie mines, minions, turrets.
Main issue is that they don’t deal enough damage / die too quickly with is pretty much: “we did it so people stop asking for them, but we don’t want players to actually use them, because it would require balancing”. Mines especially feel like new Smite Boon.

Feels like if they really wanted to give us fun abilities to fight opponents with, but some Morello-like guy walked in and said “no fun allowed”.

Someone ever played original gw1? Trap ranger was actually viable build and it was really fun to play. Same for spirit and minion builds.

I think it’s really big loss to the game if all combat is limited to face-to-face combat.

My second point would be knockbacks:

This is small one – why we can’t utilize fall dmg against mobs? At least normal ones. This game isn’t designed to be hard as nails, why are we denied ability to knock things off cliffs?

I am tempted to believe one of the developers was a [mega]team fortress fan with engineers in GW2 having a little MTF feel with turrets, spanners, mines, and grenades. The end result isn’t as useful as MTF engineers but can be just as fun with extended grenade range and dumping turrets via supply crate right on top of the enemy.

Gw1 was truly unique. It was not an mmo though. This is an mmo. Hence why its most massively annoying

Bargaw.4832:

I’m mostly talking about limitations on ranger traps, engie mines, minions, turrets.
Main issue is that they don’t deal enough damage / die too quickly with is pretty much: “we did it so people stop asking for them, but we don’t want players to actually use them, because it would require balancing”. Mines especially feel like new Smite Boon.

Feels like if they really wanted to give us fun abilities to fight opponents with, but some Morello-like guy walked in and said “no fun allowed”.

Someone ever played original gw1? Trap ranger was actually viable build and it was really fun to play. Same for spirit and minion builds.

I think it’s really big loss to the game if all combat is limited to face-to-face combat.

My second point would be knockbacks:

This is small one – why we can’t utilize fall dmg against mobs? At least normal ones. This game isn’t designed to be hard as nails, why are we denied ability to knock things off cliffs?

the irony is, i bet OP doesnt even realize morello worked for anet on GW1 and while GW2 was still in development

Lenn.6347:

Bargaw.4832:

I’m mostly talking about limitations on ranger traps, engie mines, minions, turrets.
Main issue is that they don’t deal enough damage / die too quickly with is pretty much: “we did it so people stop asking for them, but we don’t want players to actually use them, because it would require balancing”. Mines especially feel like new Smite Boon.

Feels like if they really wanted to give us fun abilities to fight opponents with, but some Morello-like guy walked in and said “no fun allowed”.

Someone ever played original gw1? Trap ranger was actually viable build and it was really fun to play. Same for spirit and minion builds.

I think it’s really big loss to the game if all combat is limited to face-to-face combat.

My second point would be knockbacks:

This is small one – why we can’t utilize fall dmg against mobs? At least normal ones. This game isn’t designed to be hard as nails, why are we denied ability to knock things off cliffs?

the irony is, i bet OP doesnt even realize morello worked for anet on GW1 and while GW2 was still in development

In gw1 morello wasn’t in lead balance designer, it was izzy. In gw2 he left anet very early in development, thou both games share same concept of oversimplifying stuff.
GW2 needs someone on Icefrog level to do balance.

You’re forgetting turrets

Someone said engineers should have kitten turrets for defense, except they mostly suck, die in a second, and tie up utility and toolbelt slots.

Edit: You can’t knock things off cliffs because mobs aren’t coded to have physics. They’re glued to the 2d movement mesh they’re on. You can knock players off things though. There’s nothing like knocking the enemy off the WvW jump puzzle or off a narrow wall.

The best way to use turrets is with the trait that allows you to throw them to stick to walls and such out of range of any melee enemy. However sadly this is not working correctly right now for most turrets, it got bugged somewhere along the way.

As for mines during Beta they were a LOT more helpful. I remember we had 5 individual mines we could place from the skillbar where we liked as well as the F keys doing the one we have now where they randomly land around us. I am not sure if the utility one still worked. For whatever reason they removed the 5 individual mines so basically now this is a pretty bad kit to slot. However the utility function can be useful in some situations and does have a very short recharge rate. However I think they should move this function to the F keys and move the random surround mines to the utility bar. Because honestly for Engineers it’s just more natural to use the F Keys over the utility keys for skills etc.

Bargaw.4832:

Someone ever played original gw1? Trap ranger was actually viable build and it was really fun to play. Same for spirit and minion builds.

Yes! And so was Barrage/Pet with a Minion Master and Battery Necro in the party but that was nerfed out of existence in GW1. My point is that ANet has always done these things.

(Ahhh – Tomb of the Primeval Kings. It’s where I learned to monk properly and watch the battle and not the red bars. I shouldn’t have bothered since they got rid of monks entirely in GW2. )

STOP BALANCING PVE BY BALANCING PVP.. For real.. how stupid can you be, even gw1 knew that. In gw1 you could have a skill that acted different in pvp than in pve just to make it usefull and balance it for both sides. did anet fall on their head and forgot everything they’ve done in the past?

Would be nice to have an mmo with mob physics, they can knock me off a cliff.

Give them wings or climbing claws or something if you don’t want them to fall

“Someone ever played original gw1? Trap ranger was actually viable build and it was really fun to play. Same for spirit and minion builds.”

How was it to play against though?

players, especially PVP players often have this entirely self centered approach to balance and, in their hands… would probably create a friggin HORRIFIC system wherein “fun” combinations exist, where fun is actually another way of saying abusive.

I do agree though that the separation of PVE and PVP is VITAL to a game of this day and age, and that we’re too restricted due to the mechanics of invulnerability when being unable to path to players that mobs get, and a lack of fall dmg etc and or impact from non stun skills, they all feel so weightless.

Yes, that is exactly what Anet sold me, an anti-fun mmo. I am taking a hiatus until they remove DR’s and improve the loot from events and mobs.

This game is so limited by design it’s to hard to play, unless you have hours and hours to play it at one time. Tonight I went to CS, hardly anyone at pent/shelter so I was already out 7s for travel fees (from LA and back)

I did melandru, long story short it took an hour an I got 4 blues and 2 greens. I didn’t have fun, and now I don’t even want to play any more.

So anet, if you want any more of my money, fix this crap.

Nappychappy.7046:

So anet, if you want any more of my money, fix this crap.

This is something I expect to see on a subscription based mmo’s forum really.

I doubt the problems you experienced will be fixed, so this game probably isn’t for you.

Problem is, those skills are hard to balance. They need to be gauged etc.
As a Thief main I know my traps are very meh, but that doesn’t prevent me from enjoying the rest of the fun.

Just report the issues of your class in the proper forum, get support, and eventually devs will do something.
It has nothing to do with “anti-fun”, it’s skill balance progress. It’s a job that takes time.
You’ll prolly live another 60 years minimum so what’s the hurry?
We paid 50 bucks for this gem, give them time. You can tell they’re working a lot, just make sure they know what’s wrong so they’ll fix it.

While i do agree with this every class no matter how many faults any class can be a op class. Its how you use that class you could turn the most weakest attack ever add a pinch of strategy and it would be the deadliest.

Bargaw.4832:

Someone ever played original gw1? Trap ranger was actually viable build and it was really fun to play. Same for spirit and minion builds.

were they viable at release? maybe you’re right in that it will take a lot of time to balance and they just dont have the resources now.

you throw your hands in the air and give up like they’ll never work on these issues. . .

Desamos.1836:

Gw1 was truly unique. It was not an mmo though. This is an mmo. Hence why its most massively annoying

GW was a great game. GW2 is a poorly designed MMO. They took GW lore and made a game for Ben 10/Barbie audience, dumbing down the game, removing the possibility to make builds (you have like 2 dozens of skills to chose from), removing customer support and copying stuff from other mmos. Copying is ok, but they copied everything that was bad and a few things that were good.

You cant use your mesmer to kill stuff on the other side of the wall, you cant use your ranger to use terrain in a smart way… intelligence and creativity are not allowed anymore. You will never see a 55 monk or a permasin build in GW2 because the game does not allow builds. It was designed in a way a 5 years old kid is able to play. The achievement are not real challenges like the titles were. Most “builds” that could be fun are useless. I agree with OP: GW2 has an “anti-fun” design.

rtommaso.3120:

Desamos.1836:

Gw1 was truly unique. It was not an mmo though. This is an mmo. Hence why its most massively annoying

GW was a great game. GW2 is a poorly designed MMO. They took GW lore and made a game for Ben 10/Barbie audience, dumbing down the game, removing the possibility to make builds (you have like 2 dozens of skills to chose from), removing customer support and copying stuff from other mmos. Copying is ok, but they copied everything that was bad and a few things that were good.

You cant use your mesmer to kill stuff on the other side of the wall, you cant use your ranger to use terrain in a smart way… intelligence and creativity are not allowed anymore. You will never see a 55 monk or a permasin build in GW2 because the game does not allow builds. It was designed in a way a 5 years old kid is able to play. The achievement are not real challenges like the titles were. Most “builds” that could be fun are useless. I agree with OP: GW2 has an “anti-fun” design.

You can have simplistic classes and still have deep gameplay. That deep gameplay would normally stem from resource management/teamwork/positioning etc as you said.

Sadly this game has very little of it, it is definitely one of the more simplistic games I have played, but hey; it means the game is very accessible and that means wider possible customer base, hope it works out for ANet.

“Builds” aren’t the reason this game is simple though, and a lot of people don’t find depth fun, so including it would likely be “anti-fun” to them.

That’s funny, I thought this thread was going to be about Orr and Southsun, both 2 of the most anti-fun explorable zones I’ve ever had to go through, especially Orr with all the mobs with pulls and immobilizes, the sheer population of them, despite zhaitanbeing dead..

Then Karkas which take half your health away in a single spit, which is multiple hits so you can’t doge all of it (you’ll still get hit by it 2-3 times)

rtommaso.3120:

You will never see a 55 monk or a permasin build in GW2 because the game does not allow builds.

I’m pretty sure stuff like that is why, actually.

I don’t want a 55 monk or a permasin back, thank you very much.

Did they really kill off good Ranger trap builds? Haven’t gotten leveled up a Ranger far enough to know, but that would be a shame if it’s true.

Their hands are probably tied with a lot of this stuff. As a turreteer, I can tell you that I would love to see a turret buff BUT at the same time my character does not feel any weaker than any other character I’ve run across. In fact, in 1v1 battles I had almost no problem winning.

If they make turrets too strong individually, they would have to limit how many we can have on the field more than they do now. Remember that turrets have as many advantages as they do weaknesses. I choose to use them because even if I get stunlocked, I can still deal damage to my enemy. That may not sound overly useful, but when you are in a close battle with someone and they down you first with only a 25% HP left… my turrets will often down them before they can finish me off.

Pet classes in a competitive MMO environment has to be difficult to design. Yes, 1 turret is worthless. If all I dropped was my 1 rifle turret I’d probably do just as well to not drop it at all- it won’t make a difference in their HP. But all 3 of my turrets at once, + my healing turret + me = equivalent or even mildly better than 1 opponent of any other type. Which, as far as I understand, is exactly how it should work.

No, not as epic as I would like, but it works and I get my turrets.

Devildoc.6721:

That’s funny, I thought this thread was going to be about Orr and Southsun, both 2 of the most anti-fun explorable zones I’ve ever had to go through, especially Orr with all the mobs with pulls and immobilizes, the sheer population of them, despite zhaitanbeing dead..

Then Karkas which take half your health away in a single spit, which is multiple hits so you can’t doge all of it (you’ll still get hit by it 2-3 times)

Orr sucks because the broken (and yes, it’s confirmed as broken and supposed to be getting fixes asap) mob spawn makes it impossible to clear a path through. Combine that with the fact that pretty much all the mobs have some type of movement interference, and the zone just gets annoying in a hurry. I’m interested to see if fixing the spawn is enough, or if we have to start a bazillion complaint threads about dead farmers and peasants being able to cripple heroes.

Southsun just screams half-kittened. Not a lot of variety. Not many points or vistas or anything. Not even map completion.

As for the baby karka…as a mezzie you just feedback ’em. Ranger, just pet flip between fights as your pet eats that damage. As other classes, any of your interrupts as soon as they start that machine gun animation. Baby karka are easy farming.

Tolmos.8395:

Pet classes in a competitive MMO environment has to be difficult to design. Yes, 1 turret is worthless. If all I dropped was my 1 rifle turret I’d probably do just as well to not drop it at all- it won’t make a difference in their HP. But all 3 of my turrets at once, + my healing turret + me = equivalent or even mildly better than 1 opponent of any other type. Which, as far as I understand, is exactly how it should work.

No, not as epic as I would like, but it works and I get my turrets.

It’s more a problem for a turret-optional class. If you balance the class assuming turrets, you make them too weak for players who don’t want their engineer using turrets. If you balance the class assuming no turrets, then players who use them get too strong.

Balancing them to me would be getting out the spreadsheets and making sure turrets have the same DPS rate as any other utility skill. This isn’t hard work, but it is a lot of work, which is why I suspect it hasn’t happened.

What you’d want is say we have a utility direct damage spell that does 10000 damage with a 10 second recharge. Then we’d want to have a utility heal spell that can heal 1000 health per second. Then we’d want a defense buff designed to prevent about 1000 damage per second. Then we could have turrets that do 1000 damage. Then you start mixing and matching those features. Say a utility that does only 500 damage but also heals 500. Or a healing/defense buff that gives you 750 points of health and mitigates 250 points of damage per second.

You can create a whole pile of utilities that mix and match the exact ratios, but always work out to the same effective positive or negative DPS, and let players pick and choose how they want to put together their skills to match how they want to play….more damage, more tank, more support, etc.

No game has ever done this.

It may be their best intentions but a lot of fun and potential fun has been banned from the game for whatever reason. Maybe they believe it eliminates griefing? Who knows.

It would be great to get a legitimate answer from the company on why this is done.

Mirta.5029:

Nappychappy.7046:

So anet, if you want any more of my money, fix this crap.

This is something I expect to see on a subscription based mmo’s forum really.

I doubt the problems you experienced will be fixed, so this game probably isn’t for you.

You’re right, they probably wont be fixed, even though Anet has taken out a great deal of bots, I supposed the DR’s are far to profitable.