Guild Wars 2

I have played many MMORPGs in my life and stopped for a few years to focus in my studies. Now, I am almost done with my grad school and don’t feel like boosting my GPA anymore, so I have started to play MMORPG again.

The first “new gen” MMORPG I came across was Tera. I like the combat and graphics, but I don’t know why I just don’t like the atmosphere of the world. So, I quit after three months. My character almost hit the level cap at that time. The leveling was quite fast for me.

I am using a Macbook Pro, for educational purposes, and building a gaming desktop while I am constantly moving from apartment to apartment in not practical. So, I searched for the best MMORPG in Mac. There, I found GW2. I did some research and decided to give it a try (my first pay to play MMORPG).

GW2 leveling is wayyyyyy too fast for me. I have only spent ~80 hours on my first character, which is an Elementalist, he is now level 60. Considering I like to play games very slowly (talking to useless NPC, chatting on the map channel, standing at a nice place looking at things for minutes, enjoying the world, and etc.) and I have not used any tomb of knowledge, this is incredibly fast for me.

Combining the experience I had in Tera, it makes me wonder a question, “have all the “new gen” MMORPGs became like this?”. By “this”, I mean “level” is no longer valuable in a game. It can be gained so easily and all players own a few characters that have reached the level cap. Low level gameplay is no longer important. Since level 80 is so easily achieved, grinding for gears lower than level 80 seems pointless because those hardly earned gears will be trashed in a few days, if not hours. Lastly, the saying of “the game begins when you reach level 80”. If that’s the case, the level 1-80 acts just like a tutorial for the end game contents. Tera has much funner low level gameplay compared to GW2.

“Last gen” MMORPGs I used to played take months, if not years, to reach the level cap and level was very valuable. Only a handful of players in the server actually reach the level cap. Low level gameplay is fun and “end game contents” can be accessed by not-so-low-level players. Players generally do not own many characters and even they do, the sub characters only act as a bank or something. Therefore, choosing a class to main is a much more intense process.

ps. I am not complaining about GW2, I love it. I am just wondering why has leveling became so easy and why “game begins when you reach the level cap” became a mainstream thing for “new gen” MMORPGs.

tl;dr: I think leveling in GW2 is way too easy, what do you guys think?

lvl too fast people complains…. level too hard and too slow also people complains…. i wonder how people measure the word “too”….

The reason it’s way too easy is pretty much cause people complained it was too hard.

Guild Wars 2’s motto is ‘end-game begins at L1’, so there’s that. There are some things only L80s can do, but just as much, if not more, for those characters that are not L80. That may change with the up-coming expansion, though. Depends on how much there is to do.

Welcome to Tyria, and good luck!

azizul.8469:

lvl too fast people complains…. level too hard and too slow also people complains…. i wonder how people measure the word “too”….

It’s almost like GW2 has a diverse player base and anecdotal evidence isn’t very useful

The generational difference is likely because early MMO’s were all subscription fee games, while today the free to play model is popular (and, obviously, used in GW2). Subscription games have an active interest in everything taking you as long as possible, so their leveling is far slower.

80 hours and level 60? Most would consider that slow as I got my guardian to 80 in under a week with tomes crafting and wvw.

Please keep in mind this is gw2 not Tera or wow. At 80 not a single thing in the game truly changes, you would still do the exact same thing for map completion. Then farm end game zones or do world bosses

ExtraCosmic.9082:

The generational difference is likely because early MMO’s were all subscription fee games, while today the free to play model is popular (and, obviously, used in GW2). Subscription games have an active interest in everything taking you as long as possible, so their leveling is far slower.

F2P and B2P games also need to make players stick around for a long time. That way they are more likely to make cash shop purchases or get friends into the game who may make purchases as well. GW2 has a lot of things that are grindy or time-gated in order to keep people playing. It just doesn’t do that with levels. FFXIV has a subscription, but leveling is fast as well.

I think people just got tired of leveling so modern games made it faster and moved the grind to something players were more willing to accept.

azizul.8469:

lvl too fast people complains…. level too hard and too slow also people complains…. i wonder how people measure the word “too”….

erm… Are you a Malaysian or a Singaporean by any chance? Please do not get offended. The english you used sounds like Singlish.

Sylent.3165:

80 hours and level 60? Most would consider that slow as I got my guardian to 80 in under a week with tomes crafting and wvw.

Please keep in mind this is gw2 not Tera or wow. At 80 not a single thing in the game truly changes, you would still do the exact same thing for map completion. Then farm end game zones or do world bosses

Actually, it’s more like ~100 hours and a level 60. That’s because I spent ~20 hours with a Norn warrior and realized it is a norm to have multiple characters in this game. I don’t usually do that and I have only one name for my MMORPG’s character. So, I needed a new naming convention for all my characters. I came out with the naming convention. The Norn warrior character’s name is violating my characters’ naming convention so I deleted it and restarted a new character, which is my ele now.

OP should have a chat with this guy:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/how-do-you-deal-with-the-grind/

Different strokes for different folks, I guess?

I like that people have multiple 80s. Makes it easier to have a good team comp while playing with the same group.

MoJoe.9063:

OP should have a chat with this guy:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/how-do-you-deal-with-the-grind/

Different strokes for different folks, I guess?

lol. Different players exist huh. Just to clarify again, I am not complaining, only discussing.

I find leveling to be an outdated component to mmo’s. I would much rather see developers focus on other features and ways to grow a character.

Katalos.5038:

tl;dr: I think leveling in GW2 is way too easy, what do you guys think?

You need to consider that GW2 is rated Teen, meaning you need to be at least 13yo to play. So for someone who is 13 with no MMO experience, GW2 is too hard, thus we’re seeing a lot of dumbing down in the starter area to get this player demographic up and running.

I think the best part of the game is the level caps in the area. You never truly to over power, and as such, are no require to change gear out quickly when you level. The only couple places this really maters are the true level 80 only areas, like in wvw or area of the game like the southsun cove. Leveling quickly or slow, it wont effect the long run of the game, which I think it a good balance.

azizul.8469:

i wonder how people measure the word “too”….

“According to my preferences.”

In initial game design they didn’t even want to have levels, but alpha testers felt adrift without it. So they put in levels but didn’t make them take progressively longer to get, and used downscaling to help keep lower level maps relevant.

Don’t worry that you’ll hit the cap too soon. You’re exploring and enjoying, and there will still be plenty of that to do after 80. Plus you have room for at least four more alts to level up and try out.

GW2 is a not really a good representation for the MMO genre, it’s more of an outliner, ANet definitely go way overboard in term of carebear-ness.

Not saying that’s a bad thing, but if you play this game for a little too long(like me), you will have hard time surviving in most MMOs out there.

I would prefer insa-level 80 so no, gw2 leveling is not too fast.

LastShot.4762:

GW2 is a not really a good representation for the MMO genre, it’s more of an outliner, ANet definitely go way overboard in term of carebear-ness.

Not saying that’s a bad thing, but if you play this game for a little too long(like me), you will have hard time surviving in most MMOs out there.

Yes, it seems like the OP is used to much more hardcore MMOs than GW2. Personally I like it this way since I’m not really an MMO player; I can play this game as if it were a single player RPG.

So to answer the original question: no, I don’t mind that the leveling is so fast.

I think the leveling is much better then the leveling elsewhere. It took me multiple years to your the level cap in most other MMOs I’ve played because it just took way too long and much of the game is focused at endgame so I’d end up taking breaks and adding to the amount of time it took to hit the cap. Even GW2 could have been fine with like 50-60 levels in my eyes. Having leveling take large amounts of time is just a cheap way to pad out an MMO, creating more playtime and increasing the number of hours a player needs to spend to enjoy the game without actually creating more content.

I agree leveling is too fast but then I thought this when the game was new ..

sadly as some have mentioned if it is too slow or too much of a grind people complain ..]

at the max level you have to grind a lot of mats out for gearing up and such so basically this is what THEY consider also leveling (even though many of us hate it as it feels so boring) .

I miss when the game was newer and when you also HAD to pick up the skill points by doing the challenges as this was more like gaining and leveling and removed some of the feeling of pointless gear grinding.

also THIS is the same way as GW1 was .. it was easy to get to max level and fairly fast BUT then you had to actually gain things that you needed to be able to actually compete.

GW2 is not a game for everyone BUT some like the fast leveling (if you craft and try to complete zones and do the storyline YOU WILL out level content VERY quickly) but it has always been like this and most games have taken this course to keep the game easier for more casual players..

Of course it will get to be a pain later when all these casuals start crying that they can’t get the pre curser weapons or legendary weapons as the time consumption is huge BUT then we will see if they knuckle under to that as well

No. Holy crap no.

Leveling shouldn’t even exist in games. It’s just a way to timegate/make you grind for actual fun things/keep you around longer. If GW2 didn’t have levels would the game be any different at all? I don’t think so, there’d be a lot more alts I’d think though.

L Step.8659:

Leveling shouldn’t even exist in games. It’s just a way to timegate/make you grind for actual fun things/keep you around longer. If GW2 didn’t have levels would the game be any different at all? I don’t think so, there’d be a lot more alts I’d think though.

So you want a game that just gives you everything instantly?

Ephemiel.5694:

L Step.8659:

Leveling shouldn’t even exist in games. It’s just a way to timegate/make you grind for actual fun things/keep you around longer. If GW2 didn’t have levels would the game be any different at all? I don’t think so, there’d be a lot more alts I’d think though.

So you want a game that just gives you everything instantly?

That’s not what he said at all and you know it.

No? What does the game give you from 1-79? Just skills and traits. I’d love to have those instantly. It’s just filler levels.

1) GW2 became the kind of game that think it’s playerbase is mentally challenged, to the point it has to give rewards by just log in, ‘because playing the game to achieve something is too hard’. So no challenge here or ppl complain.
2) Being max level does not hinders your progress in low lvl areas, so you can enjoy it with no pressure.
3) Levels work to slowly teach about your character mechanics. Since we dont have that kittenstorm of skills, and talents come later on, there is no need to hold people too much on the same level.

That my vision on the big picture, wishing for HoT will stir thing up a little, but no hope so far. /Hugs

Fermi.2409:

Ephemiel.5694:

L Step.8659:

Leveling shouldn’t even exist in games. It’s just a way to timegate/make you grind for actual fun things/keep you around longer. If GW2 didn’t have levels would the game be any different at all? I don’t think so, there’d be a lot more alts I’d think though.

So you want a game that just gives you everything instantly?

That’s not what he said at all and you know it.

….that is exactly what he said and he pretty much accepted it in the comment below you. Go be a dumb white knight somewhere else.

Here’s the thing about leveling, in many other games it’s the goal in and of itself, and also dictates what content you’re playing.

The last MMO I played was Aion. In that game, playing in an area that you’re overleveled for is just not that fun. If you power-leveled too fast in a game like that, you basically completely miss out on content because you’re just too high level for exploring certain maps to be worth doing anymore. Not to mention, some content has straight-up level ceilings (mainly PvP instances)

In guild wars 2, level scaling prevents that problem so you can enjoy all the zones even if you’re over-leveled, so there’s less reasons to slow you down.

Levels in Gw2 honestly aren’t even so much a goal as just a way to gate your skills and abilities as you learn to play your class. And then they intentionally made the game insanely alt friendly with leveling scrolls and such so that once you’ve learned the game on your first character you can max more very quickly to experiment with other classes. Levels just aren’t that important in Guild Wars 2 and are mainly just there for tradition’s sake.

Leveling in GW2 is different than other games, you should think of it more like an extended tutorial than the game itself. They did something similar in GW1, in Factions you would even hit level cap in the starter zone.

80 hrs to get to level 60 seems slow to me you should be leveling 1lvl/45mins just doing casual PvE after lvl 20, 1-20 should only take 2-4hrs.

hi there~

welcome to gw2!

gw2 is a more casual game targeting wide range of audiences unlike all the mmorpg you have played before which target the niche market

of course, the main difference between gw2 and those mmorpg you have played, only the players with perseverance and commitment will reach the late game and thus effectively filter out the casual players, leaving the semi-hardcore and hardcore players.

however, like i said, gw2 is targetting wide range of audiences instead of niche market. but, dont be mistaken, not all current games are like that. generally speaking, many new games are now moving towards sandbox and classless system. there are still many new mmorpgs that follow the grinding way of doing things. there also new mmorpg that trying to relive the hardcore gen mmorpg, where you get to loot from players, i miss that gen, those games were fun.

L Step.8659:

No? What does the game give you from 1-79? Just skills and traits. I’d love to have those instantly. It’s just filler levels.

That’s the problem. 1-79 seems like unnecessary when the leveling is this quick. In other MMOs, the leveling is much slower and harder. Thus, grinding low level gears in low level dungeons is necessary. In GW2, low level dungeons is more like one of the high level dungeons because everyone is looking for level 80 in LFG.

When you have no low level contents, why is the leveling existing anyway?

SkyShroud.2865:

hi there~

welcome to gw2!

gw2 is a more casual game targeting wide range of audiences unlike all the mmorpg you have played before which target the niche market

of course, the main difference between gw2 and those mmorpg you have played, only the players with perseverance and commitment will reach the late game and thus effectively filter out the casual players, leaving the semi-hardcore and hardcore players.

however, like i said, gw2 is targetting wide range of audiences instead of niche market. but, dont be mistaken, not all current games are like that. generally speaking, many new games are now moving towards sandbox and classless system. there are still many new mmorpgs that follow the grinding way of doing things. there also new mmorpg that trying to relive the hardcore gen mmorpg, where you get to loot from players, i miss that gen, those games were fun.

Aha, shake hand. Someone who misses the hardcore MMORPGs (corrected myself from using “old gen” after reading at your explanation). I thought all new gen MMORPGs is like this after playing Tera and GW2.

It does make me wonder what the point in the level appropriate dungeon gear is.. (The level 35 gear from AC, 45 from CM as an example) it’s just.. useless.

I’m the of the opposite opinion, personally

This is the first mmo i’ve reached max level in. Other mmos I would play for a week, go “oh geez i’m still no where NEAR reaching max level”(partially due to, just like you, I enjoy taking things slowly) then get kinda frustrated at my lack of progress and stop playing. GW2 has a leveling speed that I feel is similar to the single player rpgs I love, like skyrim or dark souls. Where while leveling is a good upgrade, you never feel like you HAVE to be focusing on leveling if you don’t want to spend a year to get to the endgame.
Also, I suppose “low level content being boring” is subjective as well. Low level content such as caledon forest is some of my favorite content in the game, where-as end-game content like dungeons or Orr i could do without.
Of course, I’m probably somewhat of an oddity in the realm of mmos. The first mmo I played for longer than a week was Wizard101 when I was 12-13, then when I was 15-16 I moved on to GW2. Compared to other people, I probably have had a somewhat unique experience to mmos, what-with neither of the above being near “traditional mmo”. I’m not a fan of dungeons, guilds, or honestly, aside from GW2, pvp, for example. I like to have an enjoyable experience on my own. (inb4 hurr durr mmo is for multiplayer!) And I feel GW2 really does that.

EDIT: and I know it isn’t this way now, and I think it might be a mistake on Anets part, but when the game first came out, for a long time, people WERE doing dungeons of the appropriate level. that “80+ only” junk has only developed once people got to that level and made their legendaries and junk and now they feel like they’re superior and don’t want to waste time with the likes of a *gasp/ newww playerrr

I take it you wouldn’t like Guild Wars: Factions, where even doing it casually, you hit the level cap in about 5-8 hours. Of course, you’re then only ~10% through the Factions storyline.

It seems like you want a vertical progression game, not the (mostly) horizontal progression that the Guild Wars series is.

ITheNormalPerson.9275:

and I know it isn’t this way now, and I think it might be a mistake on Anets part, but when the game first came out, for a long time, people WERE doing dungeons of the appropriate level. that “80+ only” junk has only developed once people got to that level and made their legendaries and junk and now they feel like they’re superior and don’t want to waste time with the likes of a *gasp/ newww playerrr

That makes new players like me very sad. I can’t even find players to run dungeon at my level with me through LFG. I only ran AC twice, once with some very helpful players, who kept telling me I am doing great while I kept dying, and once with my guild mates.

Sarisa.4731:

I take it you wouldn’t like Guild Wars: Factions, where even doing it casually, you hit the level cap in about 5-8 hours. Of course, you’re then only ~10% through the Factions storyline.

It seems like you want a vertical progression game, not the (mostly) horizontal progression that the Guild Wars series is.

Vertical? Horizontal?

Vertical=grinding out levels you access gear that will allow you to do content previously inaccessible.

Horizontal=levels up and getting best gear real fast allowing you to access all the content now and grinding for cosmetics and perks like magic find, permanent contract and other fancy convenience items that aren’t required to enjoy the content.

Katalos.5038:

ITheNormalPerson.9275:

and I know it isn’t this way now, and I think it might be a mistake on Anets part, but when the game first came out, for a long time, people WERE doing dungeons of the appropriate level. that “80+ only” junk has only developed once people got to that level and made their legendaries and junk and now they feel like they’re superior and don’t want to waste time with the likes of a *gasp/ newww playerrr

That makes new players like me very sad. I can’t even find players to run dungeon at my level with me through LFG. I only ran AC twice, once with some very helpful players, who kept telling me I am doing great while I kept dying, and once with my guild mates.

Actually, that’s not the reason 80 only party exist, dungeon has very little change since launch, so some people just see it as a chore and want to get it over asap.

Dungeon in this game is so easy, it can be carried by 1~3 people, so you are more likely bump into “nicer” people(they are being nice because they know they can do it without you) than most MMO.

i was the poster in tha tlink provided lol

i would seriously stop playing if there was that much grind

might i suggest wildstar? they talked it up to being the mmo for veteran hardcore mmo players.

its very well polished and quite fun, tho it doesnt have the playerbase it used to. i also love its artstyle/controls and housing. but my accoutn was hacked awhile back and i dont really ahve time to spend 15 bucks a month on it anyways. so i never recovered it.

i hear it might be going the way of f2p in the near future, that it might come to steam. id be curious to see how pay to win it becomes or pay2customize wich would kill it for me because that game was all about customizing.

Personally I feel like GW is about running around finding cool stuff to do, which you can do at any level. The levels scale to the area you’re in so being super high level isn’t that much of an advantage and pretty much all the content is still fun. Go explore, don’t worry about end game (cause there’s not really that much of it)

Wolfe.3097:

i was the poster in tha tlink provided lol

i would seriously stop playing if there was that much grind

might i suggest wildstar? they talked it up to being the mmo for veteran hardcore mmo players.

its very well polished and quite fun, tho it doesnt have the playerbase it used to. i also love its artstyle/controls and housing. but my accoutn was hacked awhile back and i dont really ahve time to spend 15 bucks a month on it anyways. so i never recovered it.

i hear it might be going the way of f2p in the near future, that it might come to steam. id be curious to see how pay to win it becomes or pay2customize wich would kill it for me because that game was all about customizing.

Oh hi, “different type of player”, lol. I guess I am the one different here.

Erm, I am not into hardcore MMO. That’s not what I meant. What I meant is I like slow leveling, but you can do stuffs when you are at low level.

For example, in order to progress above level 10, you need to gear up, unless you are very skillful and pro. To gear up, there is a dungeon unlock at level 10-ish where you can grind for gears. At level 15, same thing happens, but this time, a level 15 dungeon unlock and a new system unlock, I don’t know, something like jumping puzzle maybe? As you progress, there are stuffs for you to do. For competitive gameplay, it is still fun since everyone’s level is not very high because it’s hard, except some hardcore players. This is what I meant by “low level gameplay”.

In GW2, the leveling is very fast. I won’t stop at level 50 to grind for a level 50 gear because I will soon hit level 80 and trash that hardly earned level 50 gear. Therefore, I will proceed with the leveling until I hit level 80 and then I will start doing stuffs. In this case, the leveling seems pointless. It is more like a tutorial. There are no low gameplay at all, except leveling.

Furthermore, level scaling in low level maps, sPVP map, and WvW causes leveling has low impact on our gameplay. What I am saying is “level” in GW2 is virtually useless. It’s easy to get and it will be scale down or up appropriately. Then, why not remove “leveling” in this game? Since “level” has so minimal impact in GW2, skill is almost everything, which makes GW2 like CS, Dota, LOL and etc., which is the type of games I don’t like. I don’t like game that can be picked up by anyone and play. I like games like MMORPG where you need to spend some time building your character and explore stuffs. Again, like I said, leveling is more like a tutorial in GW2. “level” is not necessary in GW2.

I argue that there shouldn’t even BE levels, not in the traditional themepark sense anyway. One of the best things about GW1 was that it had only 20, and they were pretty inconsequential to the experience. They made a big mistake imo by bumping up to 80 for GW2 and making them highly consequential. Because of this, leveling is much more of a grind here than in the first game. They did WAY too much pandering to the wow-crowd this time around and if you think this game is “next-gen” you’re sorely mistaken. On the modern side of last-gen at best.

“Endgame starts at level 1” has always been a lie. Get rid of levels and then it would actually be true that the whole game is “endgame” like they claimed. My money is on games like Crowfall or EQN will being what eventually defines the next generation of mmo.

after you get lv 80 its all about pvp

Compared to GW1 leveling is already painfully slow in GW2. Getting all professions to lvl 80 and fully equiped is really tedious. Making it even slower would be a real disservice to Anets faithful fans.

With that being said I understand where the OP is coming from, I get what he seeks in a MMORPG and why he is disappointed about not finding it in GW2. If you come here not knowing anything about GW1 and 2, expecting the game to follow the same rules as most other MMORPGs do, than you are in for a nasty surprise.

This however doesn’t mean GW2 has to change. Not at all. If you don’t like the way leveling in GW2 works than GW2 is simply not the MMORPG for you. Go and play another one, there are plenty out there that give you what you want.

nachtnebel.9168:

Compared to GW1 leveling is already painfully slow in GW2. Getting all professions to lvl 80 and fully equiped is really tedious. Making it even slower would be a real disservice to Anets faithful fans.

With that being said I understand where the OP is coming from, I get what he seeks in a MMORPG and why he is disappointed about not finding it in GW2. If you come here not knowing anything about GW1 and 2, expecting the game to follow the same rules as most other MMORPGs do, than you are in for a nasty surprise.

This however doesn’t mean GW2 has to change. Not at all. If you don’t like the way leveling in GW2 works than GW2 is simply not the MMORPG for you. Go and play another one, there are plenty out there that give you what you want.

Yup, I don’t know anything about GW1, a little bit about 2. Nope, no nasty surprise here. It’s more like a “cultural shock”. Nope, if I don’t like it, I will leave it and wouldn’t even find my way here to the forum. I am just expressing my comments about the leveling speed.

Katalos.5038:

What I am saying is “level” in GW2 is virtually useless. It’s easy to get and it will be scale down or up appropriately. Then, why not remove “leveling” in this game?

As you have already noticed, it’s nothing more than a tutorial. It’s there so people used to more traditional MMORPGs wouldn’t feel lost, but, by design, it is not considered an important part of the game. In fact, until ascended tier gear appeared, gearing up itself was also supposed to be easy and quick.

The game was not supposed to be divided into two parts – “levelling” and “endgame” content. The devs even had a saying – “the whole game is an endgame”. The importance put on skill over the gear is intentional also.

That design was taken from the first Guild Wars game. It was originally meant to be a primarily pvp game, with PvE functioning as a tutorial/introduction/lobby. To the surprise of the devs the PvE part turned out to be a hit way bigger than PvP one. It turns out that a lot of people didn’t actually like the levelling part of other MMORPGs, and a lot of those people found in GW what they were looking for. And of course, due to GW1’s success, parts of its design were incorporated into Guild Wars 2.

So, TL/DR: no, levelling is not too short, because the game is aimed primarily at people that like it that way. If you do not, then you might try to adapt (and find fun in other activities), or acknowledge, that it’s impossible for a game to be designed for everyone, and maybe in this case you are simply not part of a target group.