Guild Wars 2

GW2 is different then other MMOs si it needs to have a tutorial which tells newcomers how to play the game inside the game not on an online manual no one finds even if it is put on the client page nor a wiki with tousends of subjects.

For those who remember GW1 Prophesies, there was the Pre-sering. a slow paced zone where people could learn the basics about the game.

I am suggesting for a similar zone in GW2 which will not be skippable when you have the first character but skippable from the 2nd character on.
In this zone the player will be taken around by an NPC and shown the mechanics of the game: skills and skill combos, weapon choices, hearts, vistas, Pois. They will be told there is no kill steal or resouce steal and thet there are events pop-ing up.

They also should be told they can travel to other races starter zones – which is not always possible in other MMOs – and they should be told about WvW and PVP too.
Tell the new players about the living story which they have as a sort of endgame content and that it will continue their personal story

I belive a tutorial zone like this will do much better to a new player to understand what to do then any written texts (online manual, wiki, in -game pop-ups). Also, they will learn to listen to the NPCs talking and not ignore them completely

I am writing this suggestion becasue, during this Christmas vacation I have played and helped a lot of newcommer in the game. It took me about 1 hour to explain them the basics to undestand what they needed to do. All of them were lost after the few hearts the initial scout told them about (if they even have talked to the initial one)

Please A-net, try to implement a tutorial instance to the game even if it hard work to do, but it will have better effect on the new players considering this game is 2.5 years old aready. it will de better then any written text.

Well since the “tutorial” is now at least the first 30 levels it doesn’t seem like it needs to get any bigger.

I thought the tutorial was 1-80?

You guys have missed the point, but I am not gonna to explain any further.

Would be a much better alternative to the NPE we have now, frankly.

It was my understanding that the starter zones were basically turned into the tutorial zones. While a separate zone would be cool, it’s also work. It’s work for new players that most people will end up skipping.

Experienced players with level 20 scrolls or 14 tomes of knowledge can skip the tutorial zone anyway.

Even if you don’t skip it, you can be out of there in an hour now, maybe an hour and a half.

So no, I don’t agree that a tutorial zone would be worth the time and effort to work on.

I definitely agree that combo fields should be explained. I’d been running dungeons for months before I understood how they worked. A basic introduction to combat mechanics would also be helpful (how reflects, boons and conditions, CC etc. work).

The NPE addresses most of the other things you mention, I believe.

I remember Guild Wars 1. The tutorial taught concepts like how to walk around, how to attack, the minimap, aggro, death, boss auras, morale boosts, how to ping on the mini map, how to call targets, party up with others and other things. All that before you got into the main part of the game. The tutorial also had a skip option if you didn’t want to do that.

Guild Wars 2 could have a tutorial that teaches (for example) how to call targets, the down state and its skills, how to pick up and drop bundles, how to rez someone. It could kill you and have you waypoint. It could explain combo fields and demonstrate them. It could let you attack something and tell you to move around and not stand in the same spot.

I was really surprised that this game didn’t (and doesn’t) have an effective tutorial to teach game mechanics when they did it so well with the first game.

Guild Wars 1’s Ascalon Pre-Searing contains some of the most brilliant game design I’ve ever seen up to this day. For those of you who haven’t had the chance to experience it, here’s a few things I remember about it:

• There is not one single popup that tells you how to play. The game itself teaches you how to play.

• The first quest you get is a “go talk to this person” kind of quest. It introduces you to movement, and how to interact with NPCs. It also allows you to familiarize yourself with the quest system. Green exclamation point is a new quest, green arrow is a quest in progress, green star on the minimap is where you have to go.

• When you leave the first village, you get a quest where you have to kill some mobs. You don’t have any abilities yet, so it’s not too confusing. You get introduced to the combat against a few mobs that aren’t even aggressive. Not too intimidating.

• You also get a quest where you have to go get a little girl’s broken flute. Upon picking it up, your inventory pops up to show that the item is now in there. This introduces you to picking up items, and managing your inventory.

• At some point, you have to move a bee hive to the other side of a bridge. You’re being introduced to objects that can be carried. There are no enemies around because it’s all about learning progressively. You just pick it up, and drop it a bit further away. It sounds pointless, but here’s the thing. Later, you’ll have a similar quest where you have to carry a basket of apples. Using the knowledge you’ve gained from the bee hive quest, you’ll be able to pick up the basket, move it until spiders appear, and drop the basket to engage in battle, because the bee hive taught you how to do it.

• There’s multiple escort quests where the NPCs behave differently. Some move at their own pace, some follow you, and some just sprint away before you have the time to say a word. This introduces you to different types of escort quests you’ll encounter in the game, and prepares you to probably hate them.

• Speaking of escort quests, there’s a quest where you have to go in a cave and protect some guy who gathers devourer eggs. Eventually, devourers unburrow, but they’re not aggressive. Then, a new type of devourer, “Diseased Devourers”, show up and attack you on sight. Fortunately, they have very little health so they’re not too threatening, but they still introduce you to the concept of aggressive mobs.

There is so much more I could list, but I think you get the idea. The Pre-Searing is simply genius from beginning to end, and it’s the best tutorial I’ve ever seen in a game because it doesn’t feel like a tutorial. There are no hints popping up to tell you what to do. The game treats you like you actually have a brain. Even if you’re an experienced player, you can still have fun playing through it. And guess what? You don’t even have to. If you want to, you have the option to skip it.

I’m a bit sad that most recent games neglect great game design in favor for impossible deadlines and half-finished, untested products that’ll maybe get patched sometime in the future. You shouldn’t have to tell the player what they have to do. Ever. If people can’t figure it out, something’s wrong with your game. You don’t like it when your friend watches you play from over your shoulder and keeps telling you what to do next. Well, how can you expect me to like the game doing the same thing?

I think a new tutorial area would be a thousand times better than this experimental NPE thing we got. Unfortunately, it also takes a thousand times more resources to make it happen, and in game companies nowadays, people with the best ideas are rarely the ones making the decisions.

Needs to be completely optional rather than any kind of one time forcing. Available at any time. Throw some shinies in there, point players at direction. I’m thinking something like Guild Wars: Factions does, there are little instances to some skills.
Shing Jea Monastery (the beginning location in Factions) also has nice little guide texts available for reading when ever one feels like. Good to read at one’s own pace.

Traced.3495:

Needs to be completely optional rather than any kind of one time forcing. Available at any time. Throw some shinies in there, point players at direction. I’m thinking something like Guild Wars: Factions does, there are little instances to some skills.
Shing Jea Monastery (the beginning location in Factions) also has nice little guide texts available for reading when ever one feels like. Good to read at one’s own pace.

Except that part of learning the game in Factions involved getting your insignia, which was also a form of tutorial which wasn’t at all optional.

Vayne.8563:

Except that part of learning the game in Factions involved getting your insignia, which was also a form of tutorial which wasn’t at all optional.

Insignia itself was tiny enough to not be really unpleasant experience to me. I don’t remember how much of that was optional, I’m thinking there were five parts and maybe two were required.

…I’m also not sure if it was required at all. I have several characters who have reached the big city but I don’t remember doing this that much…
Looking at it now actually, the instructor asks me if my ritualist (who has beaten Factions) is ready to earn her ritualist insignia.

And I’m thinking the insignia part as an inspiration.

Absolutely not. Tutorial instances drive players away, and do more harm than good at keeping their attention.

A good way to introduce players to new things, is done incrementally as they play.

You also have to take into account the various players. There are some that are new to the genre, and veterans, and even some that are new to gaming and very casual.

Jahroots.6791:

I definitely agree that combo fields should be explained. I’d been running dungeons for months before I understood how they worked. A basic introduction to combat mechanics would also be helpful (how reflects, boons and conditions, CC etc. work).

The NPE addresses most of the other things you mention, I believe.

Agreed, combo fields needs explaining. I actually suggested some ideas months ago on how to do this.

A good and quick way would be to highlight skills on the hotbar, and make the finishers proc like in other MMO’s.

nexxe.7081:

Absolutely not. Tutorial instances drive players away, and do more harm than good at keeping their attention.

A good way to introduce players to new things, is done incrementally as they play.

You also have to take into account the various players. There are some that are new to the genre, and veterans, and even some that are new to gaming and very casual.

Sooo….. fighting the elemental in Sheamoor, then waking up and left with no instructions at all is better? There’s absolutely nothing now, no direction at all. That’s going to turn people more than a tutorial with an option to move past and skip it.

I swear players just assume WAY too much of others whom haven’t played before.

Traced.3495:

Vayne.8563:

Except that part of learning the game in Factions involved getting your insignia, which was also a form of tutorial which wasn’t at all optional.

Insignia itself was tiny enough to not be really unpleasant experience to me. I don’t remember how much of that was optional, I’m thinking there were five parts and maybe two were required.

…I’m also not sure if it was required at all. I have several characters who have reached the big city but I don’t remember doing this that much…
Looking at it now actually, the instructor asks me if my ritualist (who has beaten Factions) is ready to earn her ritualist insignia.

And I’m thinking the insignia part as an inspiration.

You had to do all of it to earn an insignia, it was a tutorial and everyone had to do it. The tutorial they give you in the beginning is very very basic. It doesn’t tell you how to use skills or builds. The insignia supplied that. But you could never skip it on any factions character.

This will come off harsh, but no. Please no handholding tutorial area for those players not smart enough to figure it out on their own. That’s a huge reason for the radical changes to the leveling system in the first place.

The inability or unwillingness of a spoiled population to think for themselves.

If they can’t figure it out, they can ask. They can do some research. They can discover the answers on their own.

Please enough with the “You’re so stupid, so let’s dumb it down to Warcraft level and have signposts with arrows, huge circles, and tutors every step of the way.”

If the hearts, vistas, points-of-interest, in-game mail, glowing arrows on the compass, and instructions from the telescope NPCs aren’t enough, it’s never going to be enough for those players who can’t or won’t read and follow the signs.

Guild Wars 2 must not go down the same path World of Warcraft did. Where choices are gone because players are too dumb to decide or make them. So the developers removed those choices and decided for them.

The day that happens is the day I’m done with this game.

I loved the pre searing,I still have 1 of my characters paerked there, a LDOA for those who played it. I used it to help people level and tag tean the char gate and beyond…

Come to think of it It should have some mini’s by now

I found the original levelling eperience just right, I like the change they made to the drops yes it’s nice. But I REALLY hate the fact everything had to be slowed. I miss traits at lvl 20 I miss about everything except for the weapons unlock which was probably usefull change…

The fact you need to be looking for things is something which is part of a rpg, just pointing everything out makes it less interesting, because it will make you do what the developer wants, not leave the player to experiment and feel immersed and at the end rewarded when they made an actual choice/solution themselves.

-edit-
In the end come to think of it: The idea you thought of it by yourself is the summum the developer could reach

i completely disagree with OP. our “tutorial system” was just reworked and you want to rework it again for i dont know what it would be good for, just to prevent the workers from producing content, wich in turn would keep the complaints new players see on forums, at less amount than what it would be if this game was all about tutorials.

Vayne.8563:

You had to do all of it to earn an insignia, it was a tutorial and everyone had to do it. The tutorial they give you in the beginning is very very basic. It doesn’t tell you how to use skills or builds. The insignia supplied that. But you could never skip it on any factions character.

Went to look again, the insignia quest itself which is what I mean and am remembering somewhat fondly here appears to be completely skippable. I picked up the quest but didn’t think to take screenshot of that, there’s four options (sub quests) and the game asked me to do two. All the options can be done of course.
I think the remaining options stay there with another NPC if not done right away but I only did this all maybe once and it was a while ago, I’m not sure how it worked.
In my screenshots, the second character (pictured first) never did get the insignia, the first one (pictured second) did.

As a bonus screenshot, one of those tablets that are there in Shing Jea Monastery. <3
I really like what GW does with the info in here.

Tutorials would be acceptable if they would be 100% optional and repeatable. Why force at possibly inconvenient time or restrict this useful information?

Traced.3495:

Vayne.8563:

You had to do all of it to earn an insignia, it was a tutorial and everyone had to do it. The tutorial they give you in the beginning is very very basic. It doesn’t tell you how to use skills or builds. The insignia supplied that. But you could never skip it on any factions character.

Went to look again, the insignia quest itself which is what I mean and am remembering somewhat fondly here appears to be completely skippable. I picked up the quest but didn’t think to take screenshot of that, there’s four options (sub quests) and the game asked me to do two. All the options can be done of course.
I think the remaining options stay there with another NPC if not done right away but I only did this all maybe once and it was a while ago, I’m not sure how it worked.
In my screenshots, the second character (pictured first) never did get the insignia, the first one (pictured second) did.

As a bonus screenshot, one of those tablets that are there in Shing Jea Monastery. <3
I really like what GW does with the info in here.

Tutorials would be acceptable if they would be 100% optional and repeatable. Why force at possibly inconvenient time or restrict this useful information?

AFAIK the game won’t let you get to the next mission until you do that quest.

Vayne.8563:

AFAIK the game won’t let you get to the next mission until you do that quest.

I must be too awesome for the game since I beat the whole thing already.

…Nah, it did let me progress just fine. In fact I remember that an NPC tells me that I can either follow him to mission or go earn my insignia so I, having already done this part of the game with another character, jumped at the opportunity to avoid doing any stuff.
I think it’s just easy to follow the quests and miss this little detail. I’m just not fan of quests at all. :/

Vayne.8563:

Traced.3495:

Vayne.8563:

You had to do all of it to earn an insignia, it was a tutorial and everyone had to do it. The tutorial they give you in the beginning is very very basic. It doesn’t tell you how to use skills or builds. The insignia supplied that. But you could never skip it on any factions character.

Went to look again, the insignia quest itself which is what I mean and am remembering somewhat fondly here appears to be completely skippable. I picked up the quest but didn’t think to take screenshot of that, there’s four options (sub quests) and the game asked me to do two. All the options can be done of course.
I think the remaining options stay there with another NPC if not done right away but I only did this all maybe once and it was a while ago, I’m not sure how it worked.
In my screenshots, the second character (pictured first) never did get the insignia, the first one (pictured second) did.

As a bonus screenshot, one of those tablets that are there in Shing Jea Monastery. <3
I really like what GW does with the info in here.

Tutorials would be acceptable if they would be 100% optional and repeatable. Why force at possibly inconvenient time or restrict this useful information?

AFAIK the game won’t let you get to the next mission until you do that quest.

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Choose_Your_Secondary_Profession_%28Factions_quest%29
Reward dialogue
Master Togo
“A fitting choice, young one. Congratulations. You now have the choice of returning to your Headmaster to earn your insignia for your primary profession, or you can take a further quest from me. Although it is your choice, I recommend that you speak with your Headmaster first and return to me once you have earned your insignia.”

DeceiverX.8361:

Would be a much better alternative to the NPE we have now, frankly.

Totally agree with OP and your comment here. Also with a tutorial that included info about traits they wouldn’t have had to screw with a perfectly good trait system either.

Astral Projections.7320:

Vayne.8563:

Traced.3495:

Vayne.8563:

You had to do all of it to earn an insignia, it was a tutorial and everyone had to do it. The tutorial they give you in the beginning is very very basic. It doesn’t tell you how to use skills or builds. The insignia supplied that. But you could never skip it on any factions character.

Went to look again, the insignia quest itself which is what I mean and am remembering somewhat fondly here appears to be completely skippable. I picked up the quest but didn’t think to take screenshot of that, there’s four options (sub quests) and the game asked me to do two. All the options can be done of course.
I think the remaining options stay there with another NPC if not done right away but I only did this all maybe once and it was a while ago, I’m not sure how it worked.
In my screenshots, the second character (pictured first) never did get the insignia, the first one (pictured second) did.

As a bonus screenshot, one of those tablets that are there in Shing Jea Monastery. <3
I really like what GW does with the info in here.

Tutorials would be acceptable if they would be 100% optional and repeatable. Why force at possibly inconvenient time or restrict this useful information?

AFAIK the game won’t let you get to the next mission until you do that quest.

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Choose_Your_Secondary_Profession_%28Factions_quest%29
Reward dialogue
Master Togo
“A fitting choice, young one. Congratulations. You now have the choice of returning to your Headmaster to earn your insignia for your primary profession, or you can take a further quest from me. Although it is your choice, I recommend that you speak with your Headmaster first and return to me once you have earned your insignia.”

I stand corrected.

Man… I just created this huge post about how I don’t like the NPE and then you go and make this thread. I feel so needlessly redundant now, thanks lol.

Last night in the Heart of the Mists, I noticed the person standing next to the gate you emerge from when you teleport to the area. Speaking to them got me sent to the “training” area.

There, they had practical lessons on reviving downed players, finishing off downed players, and capturing points. I realized that all areas of the game use at least two of these mechanics, but there’s no good lesson on them until you find the one in the HotM.

I think a series of training areas like this would be great. No new maps needed, make them instances and reuse existing maps, and put 2-4 lessons in each one. Make sure the players know about these areas, then let them decide if they want to get sent to them or not.

It would be a pretty mammoth task to explain every aspect of the game in a tutorial. I always find the best way of learning new content is by doing it. I always want to jump into a game, not have a (God knows how long) introduction instance.
People are not meant to know what they are doing from the get go, but they pick it up pretty quick

If you can’t pick up the concepts of the game by playing then why are you playing ;/
Explore and try things out. So many people are so limited in this game because they get told what to do and don’t try things out for themselves.

“stack might like this” -never stack might another way
“level like this” -refuse to level a different way
“map like this” -misses out on Jump puzzles/mini dungeons cuz they don’t look for things.

It’s all about trial and error. If you spend a few hours playing a day I’m pretty sure you can work out how to:

Complete a heart
Res someone
Use the TP
Travel to LA!
Use Waypoints
Play the game ._.

I still would like the option to skip all the tutorial bullkitten on a new character, we need less tutorials IMO not more.

Arietta The Broken.1875:

It’s all about trial and error. If you spend a few hours playing a day I’m pretty sure you can work out how to:

Complete a heart
Res someone
Use the TP
Travel to LA!
Use Waypoints
Play the game ._.

ANet should implement Starter Dailies for new accounts that task the new player with basic stuff.

I’m a new player(just got the game from a friend for xmas) and for the most part most of these things I feel are covered in the game. Of course, I’m not new to the genre(been playing online RPG’s since the early/mid 90’s)…but there are a few things, mostly related to combat, that I do wish were explained in more depth.

Like the combo stuff I really don’t know much about, and weapon swapping and how it changes your skills def could be explained to a greater degree in game.

Runewolf.8456:

I still would like the option to skip all the tutorial bullkitten on a new character, we need less tutorials IMO not more.

I agree that this sort of thing should be optional — my first instinct on how to do it would be for Commander Siegerazer to mail players on completion of the tutorial instance (or perhaps on next login for existing characters), suggesting that they begin training to join the Mist War and enclosing a portal stone to the new tutorial map.

That said, simply not teaching the game to players is not really an option.

Who hasn’t cried on watching another player save a mob from choppy stabby death by pushing it out of range? Now, sure, that’s not always because the player doesn’t know any better, but when you also see players quit the game and write posts on forums telling people to stay away from the game because “the combat has no depth and all you do is use all your skills on cooldown”?

There’s something deeply wrong when there’s nothing to clue a player in to one of the most fundamental principles of combat.

Putting in another dedicated tutorial might not fix all of this, but it probably wouldn’t hurt.

It would have to be entirely optional. Most players can figure this stuff out for themselves, or Google what they can’t.

Tutorials are boring.

Edit: except a tutorial on not knocking back a mob out of another players melee range. That needs to be compulsory.