Guild Wars 2

Feanor.2358:

kdaddy.5431:

3) Broken HOT specs
Now ive been a big ranter about the specs because they have broken all of the game imo. But even in raids if there is a non-hot spec you prefer to play, you cant bring into raids. No one is posting the NO-HOT TEAM SET UP RAID CLEAR. They are posting broken aspects of the new HOT specs that allow the question of is that broken? The portal at the bottom of Gors? The mesmer shared boons? All of which are spammable because of HOT specs.

Um, what?!

You are aware the top dps classes, condi ranger and condi engi both do not run their elite spec at all, aren’t you?

And it took them a long time to get to that point. And its only 2 out of 9 classes (not to mention that Druid is practically a pure healer spec and scrapper was designed specifically for PvP then completely gutted), 3 if you count condi mesmer for the 2(or is it 3?) raid bosses where it deals decent damage.

Elite specs are vastly overpowered. Have been since release, and buffing core specs to their level is the wrong way to go about balance, elite specs just need to be tuned down to be on the same level as core specs.

@OriOri

Boons/Condis:
They are absolutely out of hand. Alot of the Conditions are obsolete and should get reworked into Trait Effects or into baselined Skill Effects to strenthen the playstyles of certain Classes. Don’t let you deceive by the amount of Conditions that need to be reduced being greater than the Boons Side. Thats simply because anet totally overenriched the Game with Conditions
Fear, Taunt, Immobilize are 3 completely obsolete Conditions that would work better as baselined Trait Effects to strenthen the Necro, the Warrior/Guardian and the Thief.
Blindness/Weakness could get easily merged to make the new Blindness more impactful in a similar way how it worked like in GW1. Cripple and Torment would make a perfect merge and Burning + Vulnerability also too because a burning equipment should get destroyed and become naturally more vulnerable to attacks.

The game also needs not more than 3 damaging conditions, anything more than 3 is obsolete and turns thsi game only more into an unneccessary effect spamfest.
More effectful and reworked better designed Upgrades – among your suggstion that Conditions should get a more clear removal hierachy surely will also help.
Thats why I’m so after it, that Anet needs to stop ignoring their important aspects of their Game – and Upgrades play a huge role in Class Balance as they affect heavily how effective builds of certain classes can be played out in WvW and PvP

Break Bar
Adding a Break Bar to Players also as well will be the absolut soultion to the current obnoxious CC Spam in the Game. People need to play CC coordinatedly to be able to stun Bosses . So why shouldn’t players need to use teamwork also against each other?
Do you find it ok, that a Class like a Thief can constantly CC spam you with Headshot for example without thinking about it, without coordinated teamwork of other allies and can completely stop you this way from doing anything? I don’t find this is ok.
Adding Break Bars to players would be the right decision to give also more meaningfulness to Stability to rebalance this Boon better instead of letting it be a 100% protection against CC, it would become a preventive boon, that improves just your resistance of your Break Bar and makes it harder to stun you, but basically not impossible!!!

Gear Stats/Economy
Thats not true. People always forget, that economy is not a one way path, that exists only, as long certain parts of it exist under its original design.
Economy ADAPTS itself based on changes that happen around of it, or that are made by the devs. ANet can always redistribute all items that are part of one economy system into a “new one” to ensure, that the required materials stay “demanded”.

Example.
Lets think about it, we realyl would have no Gear Stats anymore and we would have no need anymore for pointless “recipes” and materials to make tons of obsolete crafting items that are based on gear stats, stuff like – https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mighty_Jute_Insignia and all of its higher tiers.

Do you really think Anet wouldn’t be able to find/create replacement sinks for Materials that lose their original sinks through the removal of Gear Stats?
Its easy to replace anytime old material sinks with new ones.

Instead of letting those materials sink for such craftign recipes, Anet could add new crafting recipes into the game that just replace the material sink of the removed recipes to make sure, that the materials stay demanded, so that the economy won’t crash. Thats why I say, this will take alot more effort and should be one of the later bigger changes.
For now is reworking Boons/Conditions, adding Player Break Bar and eventually rebalancing of Upgrades alot more important first

Feanor.2358:

kdaddy.5431:

3) Broken HOT specs
Now ive been a big ranter about the specs because they have broken all of the game imo. But even in raids if there is a non-hot spec you prefer to play, you cant bring into raids. No one is posting the NO-HOT TEAM SET UP RAID CLEAR. They are posting broken aspects of the new HOT specs that allow the question of is that broken? The portal at the bottom of Gors? The mesmer shared boons? All of which are spammable because of HOT specs.

Um, what?!

You are aware the top dps classes, condi ranger and condi engi both do not run their elite spec at all, aren’t you?

what now?

Ok i understand im a little out of the loop with raids atm but i was here for the 4-5 hour runs when raids first came out.

Alot of us were using rangers/druids for the increased glyph damage and heals.

This is before the all the changes. I was in the some of the groups to clear W1 without the huge meta shift. We only had 2 eles at the game and we actually ran a bunker DH with a dps mesmer.

So i understand that things have changed but how does that change anything i said?

So because you have 1 maybe 2 players in a group not run HOT specs NOW, it doesnt change how OP they are? Or even how they changed the PvP and WvW scene?

I keep this picture because this is what raids are suppose to be.

Raids are suppose to be CHALLENGING content, content that challenges the skill of a group of players.

Raids dont do that, they challenge the mechanics of players and the team comp. You see it in the forums all the time asking for a damage meter. How to put as much damage as possible. Then someone asks the question of whats the raid comp. Someone replies and 90% agree then you get a few people who say my static team doesnt do that. The key word is static, or raid team, or guild team.

I was simply trying to address the issue of the topic OP. You found 1 sentence in in my 2000 word essay saying ha i gotcha.

If you wish to finish that and show me the team who can finish a raid wing in all core builds ill take everything back. If you want to show me multiple players in the PvP scene in the high plat range running core builds, ill take it back.

Otherwise i dont know what you are arguing.

Orpheal.8263:

A “true” balance patch will exist only,

No it won’t, because its fundamentally impossible to balance a game.

Why?

Because human beings as a species are not capable of considering two different things as equal. We spend our entire lives declaring X better than Y, declaring that doing this is better than doing that, declaring that A is a better lifestyle than B, declaring that some class is better than other class in a rpg. We are a species that exists to chase the optimal regardless of whether that optimal is real or invented.

Crinn.7864:

Orpheal.8263:

A “true” balance patch will exist only,

No it won’t, because its fundamentally impossible to balance a game.

Why?

Because human beings as a species are not capable of considering two different things as equal. We spend our entire lives declaring X better than Y, declaring that doing this is better than doing that, declaring that A is a better lifestyle than B, declaring that some class is better than other class in a rpg. We are a species that exists to chase the optimal regardless of whether that optimal is real or invented.

Ya, and a human being or better said – a company in this case that doesn’t even “try” to chase after the “optimal”, by ignoring permanently 90% of all things that could get optimized, lives only an illusion of “balance” and doesn’t work “truly” on what could optimally be done on the game. That is just the difference and for what I let stand the word “true” with my wording there.

Someone, who doesn’t try even to reach after the most optimal that is possible and does instead repeas over 4 years over and over and over only one and the same things, by ignoring 90% of what is possible to change to make the situation for everyone better, basically has just given up their game either, or is totally clueless and uncreative – or so massively out of touch with their own game and its community, that you as a player just can get only the impression here, that this company just needs a loud wake up call from us, so that they get finally their heads out of the sand and stop playing ostrich – in the hope that they then finally realize, than reaching for the most optimal as what people understand under “game balance” isn’t just done by permanent number changes only on skills and traits only.
Balancing a game of the format like GW2 requires more than that!

ermmm…..

if ur idea of balancing is to have better dps, im not sure if you understand what balancing is.

also, u get bored relatively fast becoz u limit urself to a few things

@Sky
If you meant with this comment me, then no, my idea of game balance isn’t just to give classes only more/better DPS.
To limit yourself only onto DPS values is most likely the ultimate worst way of attempting to balance classes in a game like GW2 and like the most noobish deathly sin one you do to a game!

My idea of game balance follows the principle, that Skill and Number Changes are used mainly for FINETUNINGS on Classes, the rough changes on core components of the Combat System are it, which make the impactful changes that truly move the game direction of its state of balance and with adjustments to Skills and Traits you can improve the fine nuances that are needed to be calibrated to get as close as possible to a “balance” as you can get.

Don’t understand really what your comment has to do now with “boredom” ..???
If you think its a lazy and “bored” way of balancing, if you just permanently repeat over 4 years over and over again the same things on the game – then yes, you’re right.
In that case I think I have understood you then, as it is a very limited way to handle a game like GW2, if all what you do on the game is every 3 months only number changes on skills and traits, when there is so much more you could do with the game, to improve its balance.

Somewhen is simply the line crossed, where number changes and trait alterations just aren’t enough anymore to move the game into the right direction.
Thats the point, when bigger medium sized changes like a complete rework on the Condition/Boon System and the implementation of Break Bars to Players are required onto which are followed then again by balance patches that finetune the skills and traits based on the made changes on the bigger parts of the combat system.

I don’t know why you have such a kitten for giving players break bars. That’s a dumb idea that at best will change nothing (one player can easily break the bars of almost anything by themselves) and at worst will render CC entirely worthless and usher in a new level of bunker hell on PVP.

OriOri.8724:

All upgrades do need to be rebalanced, some are ridiculous compared to others, and some are pathetic. But their core functionality is fine (meaning the type of bonuses they give).

There’s nothing wrong with upgrades, really, Anet provided a wide variety to choose from. It’s just that players only care about the most optimal ones, and there’s not a whole lot you can do to change that.

Given the hundreds (or even thousands) of options we have for upgrades, the fact that people only use a few dozen at most indicates that they need to be rebalanced against each other.

Especially the new HoT upgrades, they are just downright better than core tyria ones.

You can only ever have a single optimal choice for any given purpose. No amount of balancing can change that.

But you can expand the number of given purposes optimal to pursue.

You can, but it means expanding the game. That’s not a matter of balance, it’s a matter of designing and implementing new features.

Orpheal.8263:

@Sky
If you meant with this comment me, then no, my idea of game balance isn’t just to give classes only more/better DPS.
To limit yourself only onto DPS values is most likely the ultimate worst way of attempting to balance classes in a game like GW2 and like the most noobish deathly sin one you do to a game!

My idea of game balance follows the principle, that Skill and Number Changes are used mainly for FINETUNINGS on Classes, the rough changes on core components of the Combat System are it, which make the impactful changes that truly move the game direction of its state of balance and with adjustments to Skills and Traits you can improve the fine nuances that are needed to be calibrated to get as close as possible to a “balance” as you can get.

Don’t understand really what your comment has to do now with “boredom” ..???
If you think its a lazy and “bored” way of balancing, if you just permanently repeat over 4 years over and over again the same things on the game – then yes, you’re right.
In that case I think I have understood you then, as it is a very limited way to handle a game like GW2, if all what you do on the game is every 3 months only number changes on skills and traits, when there is so much more you could do with the game, to improve its balance.

Somewhen is simply the line crossed, where number changes and trait alterations just aren’t enough anymore to move the game into the right direction.
Thats the point, when bigger medium sized changes like a complete rework on the Condition/Boon System and the implementation of Break Bars to Players are required onto which are followed then again by balance patches that finetune the skills and traits based on the made changes on the bigger parts of the combat system.

i am replying to op.

good effort for your wall of text though is pointless.

Orpheal.8263:

@OriOri

Boons/Condis:
They are absolutely out of hand. Alot of the Conditions are obsolete and should get reworked into Trait Effects or into baselined Skill Effects to strenthen the playstyles of certain Classes. Don’t let you deceive by the amount of Conditions that need to be reduced being greater than the Boons Side. Thats simply because anet totally overenriched the Game with Conditions
Fear, Taunt, Immobilize are 3 completely obsolete Conditions that would work better as baselined Trait Effects to strenthen the Necro, the Warrior/Guardian and the Thief.
Blindness/Weakness could get easily merged to make the new Blindness more impactful in a similar way how it worked like in GW1. Cripple and Torment would make a perfect merge and Burning + Vulnerability also too because a burning equipment should get destroyed and become naturally more vulnerable to attacks.

The game also needs not more than 3 damaging conditions, anything more than 3 is obsolete and turns thsi game only more into an unneccessary effect spamfest.
More effectful and reworked better designed Upgrades – among your suggstion that Conditions should get a more clear removal hierachy surely will also help.
Thats why I’m so after it, that Anet needs to stop ignoring their important aspects of their Game – and Upgrades play a huge role in Class Balance as they affect heavily how effective builds of certain classes can be played out in WvW and PvP

Break Bar
Adding a Break Bar to Players also as well will be the absolut soultion to the current obnoxious CC Spam in the Game. People need to play CC coordinatedly to be able to stun Bosses . So why shouldn’t players need to use teamwork also against each other?
Do you find it ok, that a Class like a Thief can constantly CC spam you with Headshot for example without thinking about it, without coordinated teamwork of other allies and can completely stop you this way from doing anything? I don’t find this is ok.
Adding Break Bars to players would be the right decision to give also more meaningfulness to Stability to rebalance this Boon better instead of letting it be a 100% protection against CC, it would become a preventive boon, that improves just your resistance of your Break Bar and makes it harder to stun you, but basically not impossible!!!

Gear Stats/Economy
Thats not true. People always forget, that economy is not a one way path, that exists only, as long certain parts of it exist under its original design.
Economy ADAPTS itself based on changes that happen around of it, or that are made by the devs. ANet can always redistribute all items that are part of one economy system into a “new one” to ensure, that the required materials stay “demanded”.

Example.
Lets think about it, we realyl would have no Gear Stats anymore and we would have no need anymore for pointless “recipes” and materials to make tons of obsolete crafting items that are based on gear stats, stuff like – https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mighty_Jute_Insignia and all of its higher tiers.

Do you really think Anet wouldn’t be able to find/create replacement sinks for Materials that lose their original sinks through the removal of Gear Stats?
Its easy to replace anytime old material sinks with new ones.

Instead of letting those materials sink for such craftign recipes, Anet could add new crafting recipes into the game that just replace the material sink of the removed recipes to make sure, that the materials stay demanded, so that the economy won’t crash. Thats why I say, this will take alot more effort and should be one of the later bigger changes.
For now is reworking Boons/Conditions, adding Player Break Bar and eventually rebalancing of Upgrades alot more important first

nor boons or condis are out of hand what is out of hand is condi cap in pvp and wvw and the power certain classes have to apply boons in pve chrono ps warr druid etc.