(edited by SigiSixx.4826)
GW2 needs finally a REAL class balance!
1 2
No amount of balance passes are going to fix anything, as evidenced by the last four years, where nothing has been successful save for removing builds from content, never once creating more builds and diversity of play.
What we need is a repass of game mechanics, starting with the major systems like dodging and stats and aggro and AI, and working its way down to individual class mechanics across pretty much all of the classes.
(edited by Conncept.7638)
Yep, Anet ignoring imbalance since 4 years because they don’t care about that.
Every 4 month they give us a joke of balance patch, with 5% dmg increase on skill 1 and 5% less dmg on skill 2 ( and 5000000% dmg increase on any warrior weapon). I don’t know why they need so much time for… nothing? Class mechanics which are failing in different game modes get not reworked since 4+ years.
I read often good critics in class forums for a better class balancing, better class mechanics (what classes need) but i have never seen Anet implements just 1 of this suggestion…
Maybe the necro will finally be balanced when deathly chill cause 9 stacks of bleed instead.
Necro is simply still too weak in WvW. 40 stacks of bleed is like pfff who even feel that. It should be 120 stacks.
Anet balances all the time(Adjusting numbers anyway)
The game was of course balanced to the zerker heavy armor only no necro’s in the early days. Moving to lets balance things in the name of esports and the balance cause we have trinity now for raids.
Balance comes in two forms for Anet a simple adjusting of numbers or pruning then sweeping it under the rug to be forgotten about forever. Member underwater combat, Anti-Toxin Spray, Clone Death, Ranger pets moving, skill animations, Guardian tomes(My guardian was shelved after tomes were cut), and though I’m not familiar with every class it seems every class is a little lighter on the mechanics today than they were in the past. Even with elites because things like guardian tomes were unique mechanics however elite specializations didn’t bring new class mechanics they reused existing mainly from wells, shouts, traps, and so forth its true classes got access to these things but there mechanics that existed on other classes.
Heck just check out the historical traits/skills and look at all the playstyles and builds that are completely removed from the game.
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/List_of_historical_traits
I’m all for balance but Anets version of balance is the reason why my Engineer can no longer heal with explosions. In this day an age with raids elixir-infused bomb trait would have been nice.
Okey, kinda shocking to hear that anet is ignoring it. I thouhgt i will get answers like “stop cry” or “necros are only for noobs”. But im happy that you share the same thoughts.
Yeah, true, the idea/concept is rly bad.
It feels like
Anet designer: “hey lets make some short raids, with bosses who dont require much skill and lets add a few classes who just stay on point and do dps”
Aner worker: “Oh good idea, lets do this concept to any raid and bossfight, so we dont need to be to creative and the players have something to do for the next 6 months”
Anet balances all the time(Adjusting numbers anyway)
The game was of course balanced to the zerker heavy armor only no necro’s in the early days. Moving to lets balance things in the name of esports and the balance cause we have trinity now for raids.
Balance comes in two forms for Anet a simple adjusting of numbers or pruning then sweeping it under the rug to be forgotten about forever. Member underwater combat, Anti-Toxin Spray, Clone Death, Ranger pets moving, skill animations, Guardian tomes(My guardian was shelved after tomes were cut), and though I’m not familiar with every class it seems every class is a little lighter on the mechanics today than they were in the past. Even with elites because things like guardian tomes were unique mechanics however elite specializations didn’t bring new class mechanics they reused existing mainly from wells, shouts, traps, and so forth its true classes got access to these things but there mechanics that existed on other classes.
Heck just check out the historical traits/skills and look at all the playstyles and builds that are completely removed from the game.
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/List_of_historical_traits
I’m all for balance but Anets version of balance is the reason why my Engineer can no longer heal with explosions. In this day an age with raids elixir-infused bomb trait would have been nice.
Its a good decision that anet removed skills from come classes.. Lets look at necros build and skills.. There is the minion build, NOBODY plays it.. People abuse this build just for afk farm. And minion build will never be usefull in pvp or pve..
Thats just kitten
Its just boring, all classes can choose 3 of 5 builds, but always only 3 are played because “most effective”.
you do realise that there are many different team comps that are viable right? and necros have been used and possibly still are for multiple aspects of raiding, however with raiding even if the difference between the 2 classes is a .00002% dps difference, the top groups will always push for the better comp. does this mean that the game is unbalanced and that other comps are not viable? no, stop trying to raid with elitists, start your own raid group if you want or find a more casual raiding guild and play your necro. or else accept that no matter what happens there will always be a preferred team comp as there is in any game, no matter how you balance the game
This was a post from Robert Gee from the Official Skill Balance Thread: 22 February Update. With this type of mindset, every class in the game is “balanced” which I think is a huge problem with the balancing team. They would only need to make minor tweaks here and there to keep them within a certain threshold. Also players attitude really hinders what classes are welcomed in what instances as well. It seems speed and numbers are all that matter to most of the end game players and necro isn’t competing in either of those categories. If PVE is ever going to be balanced then they need to change their view from every class being viable to every class being wanted. Personally I think every core profession(not specializations) should bring something unique to the table and players would want to bring 1 of each class to maximize the benefits.
WTB Color Blind Mode 100g+50e
Yea buff necros, why should 3 bleed do 2.5k dmg per sec , it should be 10k per sec. Plus buff spinal shivers, passive that deal 5k dmg is just too weak.
I’ll set my sight Higher, I want to see a support necromancer in raid.
Joke aside, Anet should be aware that PS warrior are viewed as mandatory in raid. It should be time for them to ponder at why there is only 1 profession that can easily (yes easily, it doesn’t even need any ability) 25 might a raid group.
I’m not saying that PS is a bad trait but before they introduced this trait players used creative way to reach 25 might. Now, you just reach 25 might mindlessly thanks to this trait and the fact that it is so easy hurt diversity. Some profession can’t even maintain 10 might stacks on a party.
Note that this is just one of the inegality that force raid setup into this semi-rigid comp with absolute mandatory classes.
NB.: Thanks god no profession in game is mandatory for vuln stacks.
No core profession should be balanced around an optional elite specialization.
Heck just check out the historical traits/skills and look at all the playstyles and builds that are completely removed from the game.
You know, we work hard to give context; please don’t ignore it. The very first bullet point on that page says, “Many of the effects from these traits were merged with other traits.”
G R E E N E R
Anet balances all the time(Adjusting numbers anyway)
The game was of course balanced to the zerker heavy armor only no necro’s in the early days. Moving to lets balance things in the name of esports and the balance cause we have trinity now for raids.
Balance comes in two forms for Anet a simple adjusting of numbers or pruning then sweeping it under the rug to be forgotten about forever. Member underwater combat, Anti-Toxin Spray, Clone Death, Ranger pets moving, skill animations, Guardian tomes(My guardian was shelved after tomes were cut), and though I’m not familiar with every class it seems every class is a little lighter on the mechanics today than they were in the past. Even with elites because things like guardian tomes were unique mechanics however elite specializations didn’t bring new class mechanics they reused existing mainly from wells, shouts, traps, and so forth its true classes got access to these things but there mechanics that existed on other classes.
Heck just check out the historical traits/skills and look at all the playstyles and builds that are completely removed from the game.
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/List_of_historical_traits
I’m all for balance but Anets version of balance is the reason why my Engineer can no longer heal with explosions. In this day an age with raids elixir-infused bomb trait would have been nice.
Its a good decision that anet removed skills from come classes.. Lets look at necros build and skills.. There is the minion build, NOBODY plays it.. People abuse this build just for afk farm. And minion build will never be usefull in pvp or pve..
Thats just kitten
Its just boring, all classes can choose 3 of 5 builds, but always only 3 are played because “most effective”.
That’s a really bad example because Necro’s can and still do afk farming in addition the necro lost some support and tanking abilities I think. Like gaining healing power based on power or increased toughness while channeling.
How is removing the entire Tome mechanic from Guardians or cool healing explosions from Engineers a good thing? Also the entire most efficient statement of yours doesn’t carry water at all. What’s most efficient for pvp isn’t what’s most effiecient for other modes. Perma stealth in WvW or boon share Mesmers out in the world alone. Every mode had a couple viable builds per class from pve, wvw, dungeons, and pvp back in the day. That alone is enough for class diversity because the healing branches a guardian could take in wvw, there different bunker builds to hold points or even other builds to cap points in pvp, and of course the zerker dungeon running and anything goes pve. Class diversity was much higher and many more viable builds existed in the past.
You say its good but trying to hard to troll with the no one plays necro minion build statement. A bit more control over what and when their minion attack and they’d show up more in fractals, pvp, and raids there just fine in the other modes though. Also could have stated an actual dead build that was killed through skill removal. They were all viable builds like in GW1 an MM vs an SS Necro but for esports that could get confusing for the viewer apparently so they axed some viable builds so each class could have a solid single front the boring broken never used builds weren’t touched because they weren’t used in the first place. Exactly how our skill animations were axed you cut down on esport clutter by removing tomes flashes of light or all the explosions from engineers explode healing thus only viable builds were really touched.
Heck just check out the historical traits/skills and look at all the playstyles and builds that are completely removed from the game.
You know, we work hard to give context; please don’t ignore it. The very first bullet point on that page says, “Many of the effects from these traits were merged with other traits.”
I didn’t say effects I said mechanics and the removed mechanics are listed from their old trait lead ins. It’s not difficult the old class mechanics and skills obviously used to have traits that went along with them. Thus “Many” isn’t all and the ones that have completely been removed are the ones tied to the mechanics that were completely removed.
Unless you want to link historical in game class mechanics the historical game traits shows much more than the mechanics as well. The elixir-infused bomb trait and used to be the base line for an entire engineer support build and a guardian who used tomes would have course had to trait them.
I use common sense in my posting and it should be common sense that every single build in this game begins with the traits. If a skill is removed its traits are removed you remove certain mechanic based traits and class diversity will plummet as many class builds are even named after single traits like a PU Mesmer.
If the first bullet point said all of the effects were merged then you would have a point. But if your nitpicking that then I feel further explanations are in order because the upper half of the page features historical traits post launch while the bottom half of the page features historic traits during beta. I wasn’t referring to either the beta traits or the merged traits if you click on any of the traits they will link to another page as well. From that page it will tell you if the trait was merged or removed completely during a balance patch it will even give the exact date as well. You can go through the traits of whatever your main class happens to be and see what has been removed over time if you feel like it.
Is this a thread of the past? 4 tempests? LUL the balance for dps classes has been the best since… ever other than rev most classes have a spot, oh rev… (hello darkness my old friend)
next patch: “deathly chill now does 400 stacks of bleeding in PvE”
I can apply over 3 stacks of bleeding.
personally i feel they need to get rid of the trinity in place for the raids. Would love to see 10 of one class using whatever builds they want do a raid, just like how we used to do dungeons and fractals. That would definetly make it more appealing to me. Since if i wanted to do the trinty thing i’d just go do gw1 and use my heros and flag them in the right spots lol.
Its pretty much an impossible task to balance all the classes so that everyone is happy, as most players have a favourite class that they know needs buffing to make the game balanced.
How many ppl play all classes, but dont have a favourite?
Excelsior,
to me it sounds more it’s based to 80% on the elitist jerks you encounter.
They are in every game. I just remember my last “raid” ever in another well-known game where I used a skill differently and we probably were 30 seconds slower because of that – it was a flame fest, that I suck, my class is kitten etc. but had nothing to do with the role I played as.
People were flat-out telling me before finally deciding for Thief, that “nobody will pick me for group content” and “If you play solo, that’s your best choice”. So if I tried, I’d probably also never get a spot in group content, even though I wonder what I am doing, because Thieves and Daredevils appear to actually use blunt force to fight their enemies – and not NERF darts and cotton balls as many, so-called meta and FOTM players describes us.
So long, change the elitism and you are fine.
On the other hand, why would you want to raid with people that dislike you?
Zedexx, sly Asura Thief/Assassin
and politically highly incorrect. (#Asuracist)
“We [Asura] are the concentrated magnificence!”
and politically highly incorrect. (#Asuracist)
“We [Asura] are the concentrated magnificence!”
Balance is fine.
It’s not the game’s balance’s fault that some classes perform better than others in certain encounters. Just learn to switch class.
Also – the first W4 kills I got when it came out was literally done by stacking necros – so I don’t really see the problem.
If here they fall they shall live on when ever you cry “For Ascalon!”
DPS throughout classes should be made much more equal than it is now. It will never be equal but DPS gaps like the one between necros and elementalists should be much less noticeable. Ideally class roles and effectiveness in those roles should be linked to gear. So anyone wearing Berserker’s gear should do around the same DPS and those that go Minstrel’s should all be equally effective as a support.
Also, each boon should be able to be provided by at least a couple classes for diversity. That way you don’t have to bring a mesmer for quickness. It could mean you have a choice of 2-3 classes to bring quickness and maybe it’s easiest to maintain full quickness on mesmer but other classes could do it as well with higher player skill. On the flip side a memer has a choice to be equally competitive in a DPS spot instead of always being forced into a quickness spam role.
I get that the suggestions run the risk of all classes being the same but hopefully between smart balancing choices and special class mechanics that fit a class theme how you fill that role will be and feel different making it more fun and diverse.
All I see is “real class balance” being defined as “buff my profession so it’s included in the current raid meta”. Not sure if I want my characters “balanced” based on raids for my PvE and WvW play.
How about finding a raid group that allows you to play whatever character you want. I’ve watched a group on Twitch that took over 15 hours (over multiple nights) to take down Deimos and they didn’t use anything close to that profession breakdown that the OP listed. They had a blast but the streamer had to keep telling the drive bys that the group wasn’t interested with what the meta was.
We are heroes. This is what we do!
RIP City of Heroes
RIP City of Heroes
All they ever do is nerf everything until everything is equally as crap, boring and uninteresting, they way they balances classes in GW2 has got to be the least imaginary of all games, just nerf every thing and call it dull wars 2.
DPS throughout classes should be made much more equal than it is now. It will never be equal but DPS gaps like the one between necros and elementalists should be much less noticeable.
How are you judging this gap? Is it based purely on the “DPS test golem” numbers these classes can manage?
One of the things that was shown by the ability to talk openly about DPS meter results in practice was that the differences on the golem were much more pronounced than the real world DPS performance of the various classes, which also matches experience from WoW where “HP sponge” style bosses showed much more significant DPS disparities between classes than anything with real mechanics would.
It’s also … let us say, pretty likely that the goal for anet is that classes should be roughly equal in terms of output. That is something they have the tools and monitoring to be able to measure at the scale of the entire player group — not just some little subset — and use to tune numbers.
Until we start getting those numbers from GW2 content, like we do for WoW we can’t really, as players, know if the common perception is actually accurate or not.
It’s also worth observing that some differences become more apparent if you only take the 99th percentile players, rather than the 75th percentile, or the 50th percentile performance
Ultimately, too, player perception can play a role in this. If a profession is only represented in one tenth of one percent of parses, we can confidently say that people don’t play them, but not that they underperform — just that they are believed to underperform to the point that players choose against them.
Guys, this argument is as old as MMOs. Any MMO worth playing has been imbalanced – some way worse than what we have now.
The only way to balance – at the level everyone seems to want – is to make every single profession/build/stat set play the exact same way. That is it. And that is something we should never want to happen.
All they can do is try to get it close – while always keeping build diversity and unique ways to play top of mind. I would much rather have 100 unique and fun professions/builds/ways to play than 5 that all play the same.
The balance needs to come on the gameplay side. Tiered difficulties and experiences throughout the game (ESPECIALLY in end game content like raids) to ensure that, even if you play a sub optimal build, you can still enjoy the content.
That doesnt mean balance isnt still important. They still need to strive for better balance every day they develop the game. But the game needs to play in such a way that they are still free to make fun and divergent builds for everyone to play.
Otherwise, the game will (and in my opinion is, because of the lack of divergent play styles in raids) get very stale.
Wait wait….
With how strong condi is right now, you still see 4 tempest ?
I know the pug meta is often slow to adapt but i didn’t figure that slow.
Also, not sure how you can say balance is bad when literally there’s really only two classes that need some love Rev and Necro.
Guys, this argument is as old as MMOs. Any MMO worth playing has been imbalanced – some way worse than what we have now.
I’ve played plenty of MMOs and I’d say the class balance in certain respects in this game is the worst I’ve ever encoutnered.
To take one aspect – the amount of time classes spend either OP or UP, so sure in most MMOs balance is not perfect, but at least they change things in a reasonable time frame, in this game classes can spend years as sub-par (e.g – necros in PvE, thief, engy, ranger, in large scale WvW, etc), never played an MMO that fails so miserably in this respect as GW2.
Another aspect is useless skills/traits, take engy gadgets outside of slick shoes (which got nerfed to uselessness) they have been sub-par the entire game, they’ve had nearly 5 years to do something about that (and it not like gadgets are an isolated incident…), Anet’s performance is simply pathetic.
Yeah a blance patch every 3 months is kinda crazy.
sorry, that’s what raiding is and will always become, nothing will be balanced perfect, even if it is slightly better you’re probably gonna see 99% elitest saying follow the meta or gtfo
Isn’t the majority of players “non-elitists”? So why are you letting the minority of players dictate you how you should play?
If you want to raid with a 10-man-necro-squad you shouldn’t let “elitists” stop you.
Proof them wrong by clearing the content with the composition you want to play in.
Form groups, squads, LFGs, Discordgroups and organize it.
Activly shape the meta!
Isn’t the majority of players “non-elitists”? So why are you letting the minority of players dictate you how you should play?
If you want to raid with a 10-man-necro-squad you shouldn’t let “elitists” stop you.
Proof them wrong by clearing the content with the composition you want to play in.
Form groups, squads, LFGs, Discordgroups and organize it.Activly shape the meta!
Nice theory you have here. However, in practice players just want to clear the bosses and you’ll have very hard time getting 9 other people to put the time and effort required for an off-meta kill. Of course, there will always be those who would sign up just for the fun of it. But they are going to be the very small minority. And you’ll have to spend much more time to organize such a group than you would for a meta comp.
Assuming you do it, you’ll end up spending more time and effort in both organization and gameplay. While the latter isn’t necessarily bad, the former is. And the rewards will be just the same. You won’t change the meta like that. Actually you won’t change it at all, no matter the approach, except if you’re on the balance team. Meta will always be the most efficient approach, usually “most efficient” meaning “fastest”. This is just how people play games.
Isn’t the majority of players “non-elitists”? So why are you letting the minority of players dictate you how you should play?
If you want to raid with a 10-man-necro-squad you shouldn’t let “elitists” stop you.
Proof them wrong by clearing the content with the composition you want to play in.
Form groups, squads, LFGs, Discordgroups and organize it.Activly shape the meta!
Nice theory you have here. However, in practice players just want to clear the bosses and you’ll have very hard time getting 9 other people to put the time and effort required for an off-meta kill. Of course, there will always be those who would sign up just for the fun of it. But they are going to be the very small minority. And you’ll have to spend much more time to organize such a group than you would for a meta comp.
Assuming you do it, you’ll end up spending more time and effort in both organization and gameplay. While the latter isn’t necessarily bad, the former is. And the rewards will be just the same. You won’t change the meta like that. Actually you won’t change it at all, no matter the approach, except if you’re on the balance team. Meta will always be the most efficient approach, usually “most efficient” meaning “fastest”. This is just how people play games.
So what you are saying is the problem isnt some sort of “elitsm” because looking for an optimal and least frustrating way to do something is just human nature?
So what you are saying is the problem isnt some sort of “elitsm” because looking for an optimal and least frustrating way to do something is just human nature?
Yup. Although I wouldn’t call it a problem.
So what you are saying is the problem isnt some sort of “elitsm” because looking for an optimal and least frustrating way to do something is just human nature?
Yup. Although I wouldn’t call it a problem.
Actually i am totally with you.
If you read between the lines in my original post you’ll see the problem really is
the laziness of the community. They’d rather force groups to TAKE them with the classes they favor instead of opening own groups, lfgs, discord-groups and what ever is necesseray to form groups where they can play the classes they favor.
So what you are saying is the problem isnt some sort of “elitsm” because looking for an optimal and least frustrating way to do something is just human nature?
Yup. Although I wouldn’t call it a problem.
Actually i am totally with you.
If you read between the lines in my original post you’ll see the problem really is
the laziness of the community. They’d rather force groups to TAKE them with the classes they favor instead of opening own groups, lfgs, discord-groups and what ever is necesseray to form groups where they can play the classes they favor.
someone said in a thread “in other mmos ppl ask in forums for tactics for bosses tips for mechanics etc. In this game ppl ask for the content to get easier” they also claim that their bearbow ranger or nomads staff mango pe guard isnt accepted in raids to se game isnt balanced.
As a new player, when I read “Class Balance”, I thought it meant over the 9 (18 counting Elite as separate) there is a balance where some professions excel at certain thing and others do not. Some at Raids, some at PVE, some at PvP, some at various things but they need a bank full of gear, etc.
Imagine my disappointment (as a Solo PvE-er) when I busted butt to level my first character, a Mesmer, only to find out he is mostly support and that a player has to be very good to solo PvE Mesmer. So now the Mesmer opens chests and does dailies<unless it’s to hard for him to get to) while I focus on a Necromancer. Frustrating, yes, but Arenanet designed and improves the game the way they see fit. It seems they want one class in each armor to be easy for starting players to PvE and the rest is based on what works well in the other content. I haven’t figured out where Mesmer fits in the grand scheme, except maybe as a challenge to experienced players. LOL
If you read between the lines in my original post you’ll see the problem really is the laziness of the community.
Again, that’s not a problem. It’s a fact of life.
Yeah a blance patch every 3 months is kinda crazy.
The thing is a 3 month schedule for balance patches would be fine if classes had more intra class diversity, and if we didn’t have any UP or OP builds that were allowed to exist for literally years.
We need a true balance patch that brings us real intra-class diversity, brings down overperforming builds and boons, and brings up underperforming skills and traits on all classes. Because if they were in a good place, a 3 month wait between balance patches would be fine.
How are you judging this gap? Is it based purely on the “DPS test golem” numbers these classes can manage?
Yeah you could say I’m basing the gap on what people post from DPS test golems. You are right that in more realistic scenarios the DPS gap isn’t as large based on player skill and environmental mechanics. I just wish that test golem benchmarks done by pro players would be as close as possible for all classes. I see the test golem as a theoretical DPS ceiling. So if test golem numbers the same across classes, no one could say that necros do less DPS than elementalists because any DPS differences would be based on player skill at that point. Then hopefully the community would know all classes were balanced DPS wise.
A “true” balance patch will exist only, if ANet stops ignoring all the parts of the combat system and makes finally something more than only number changes on skills and traits.
GW2 has first finally a “true” Game Balance Patch, if in this Patch Anet makes impactful changes on
- The whole Condition and Boon System > Reduce both sides to 8 Maximum/ Skill & Trait Changes based on the Changes of the Condition/Boon System
- Implemented finally the Break Bar System also to players to rebalance the whole CC Spam to force players to use CC in a COORDINATED MANNER to be able to stun,launch,knockdown foes ect. and make them unable to use Skills. CC should be coming from TEAMWORK, not from a single person spamming CC Skills like theres no tomorrow!!!
- Removal of Gear Stats, change to Attribute Gain by Character Level Up like in GW1 where players were freely able to distribute their Stat Points in Attributes
- Change of Attribute System to Dual Effects to equalize offensive, defensive and supportive Effects, so that finally they all have same good synergies.
- Complete Rebalance of all Upgrades (Sigils, Runes, Jewels) and a rework of them based on the removal of Gear Stats to
Sigils = Active Weapon Upgrades with Passives that come from refining the Weapon
Runes = Active Armor Upgrades with Passives that come from the Set Bonus
Jewels = Active Accessoire Upgrades with Passives, that come from enchanting the Jewels
Infusions = Bonus Effect Slots from Ascended Equipment, more Slots gained by
- reforging the Ascended Equipment to Epic Equipment = +2 Infusion Slots = Gear with ascended Defense Power, but just more Infusion Slots that can be either used for AR, little Stat Boosts or Skill Skins and other visual effects from Aura Infusions - Changes the games Health System to balance the Base Health for each Class individally instead of pidgeonholing them into 3 Class Types.
Each class has individual playstyles that require of them to be also individually balanced in regard of their Base Health as part of the Class Balance to make Class Balancing more depthful and detailed - Make Skill/Trait finetunings on Number and Effect Changes lastly finally after all the mentioned above changes have been made..
That will be then a true patch ,that will balance the game realyl, because it doesn’t ignore then like ANet did mostly everything – no, it will change somethign so impactfully, that it WILL SHAKE UP the whole game, refresh and revitalize it and adapt it to the whole changes that Net did over the last years.
Yes, such a huge true balancing patch naturally means now alot more work and effort, than doing only some number changes on traits and skills – alot of work and effort lesser, if Anet wouldn’t have ignored to do these things on a REGULAR BASIS for the last 4+ years!!!
But if anet would start to make step by step these immensive changes finally, then we will reach somewhen also the point where ANet will become able to do these impactful changes also on a regular basis with out that it means alot of work like it would be now due to reappraising all the stuff that they should have done already better over the last 4 years slowly step by step…
Nobody expects surely now from net miracles.
Such a huge true balancing balance isn’t just made over night – this would need by now multiple steps to reappraise all the wasted time of rebalancing the core mechanics to give this game a true balance patch, that brings all of its gameplay mechanics and core systems around the Combat System again completely up to date.
to prepare the game for more new Elite Specializations.
Rome also wasn’t build up in just 1 day!
ANet needs to begin first with a complete rework of the Condition and Boon System and to implement Break bars to players to stop the CC Spam and to force players to use CC Skills in a coordinated manner, if they want to control other players in combat.
These 2 will be for now the most biggest impactful changes to the game with that they could truly balance the game.
The other points have to follow later, as they are alot more effort, than reworking the Boon and Condition System and adding Break bars to players also as well and rebalancign the CC Skills accordingly to that change
Personally I like the idea behind sub classes ~ quoted from Chris Whiteside
I don’t agree with most of that list.
I do think that boons and conditions are out of hand, but I don’t think that hard limiting them to 8 is the answer. 1 or 2 boons and condis could be removed and I wouldn’t care, but not 3 boons and 6 conditions. They do need rebalancing though. And that can happen without just removing a bunch of them.
I also think that its about time damaging conditions were separated from CC conditions. So bleeding, burning, confusion, torment, and poison in one group, the rest in another group. Then traits/cleanses/runes/sigils could be tuned to only affect a certain group (say a sigil could be increase duration of all non damaging conditions by 35%). And we need a proper cleanse hierarchy put in place.
I also don’t know if a breakbar is good PvP balance. In PvP, unless its undertuned to be mostly useless, no one will ever get an interrupt off again. Some people have suggested an ICD on resisting a certain type of CC after you are hit with it. While I’m not yet convinced we need that, it would be better than breakbars for players imo.
removing gear stats would screw up the economy so much. People would only ever need 1 set of gear from now on. I can’t see ANet implementing this, even if it would be good for the game.
All upgrades do need to be rebalanced, some are ridiculous compared to others, and some are pathetic. But their core functionality is fine (meaning the type of bonuses they give).
Skill and trait changes are where the balance really needs to come from. And some class trait lines, and some classes in their entirety, need to be redesigned.
Here is the solution: Give the whole group a big boon ONLY if you have all 9 classes in the squad and balance the bosses to that buff. This boon also applies to groups consisting of fewer than 10 people even if they don’t have all 9 professions.
This way no matter how crap Anet balance team is, it would be ALWAYS better to have class diversity in the squad than stacking multiple eles or whatever.
Here is the solution: Give the whole group a big boon ONLY if you have all 9 classes in the squad and balance the bosses to that buff. This boon also applies to groups consisting of fewer than 10 people even if they don’t have all 9 professions.
This way no matter how crap Anet balance team is, it would be ALWAYS better to have class diversity in the squad than stacking multiple eles or whatever.
That’s a really terrible idea.
First, and foremost it’s VERY artificial. It has no connection to the game world, literally nothing to suggest or support such a mechanic. It breaks the immersion of the player in a pretty obvious way, and that’s simply an awful design.
Second, it’s also very bad balance. There’s also 5-man content. If you make the buff strong enough to actually count, you power-creep 10-man groups ridiculously and trivialize raids. If you nerf the classes accordingly, you ruin all the non-raid PvE content. So you’d have to buff raids to keep up. But then you’ve removed any illusion of potential squad comp diversity. You’ll always be forced to use 9 professions and one double.
So, to put it short – no.
What needs to be changed is “looking for Druid” or “looking for Chrono” types of posts.
It needs to transform into “looking for Healer” or “looking for Support".
Bring the role not the specific profession.
What needs to be changed is “looking for Druid” or “looking for Chrono” types of posts.
It needs to transform into “looking for Healer” or “looking for Support".Bring the role not the specific profession.
How exactly? Druids are the best healer not just because of their healing – auramancer Tempest can compete there in fact – but because they also offer pretty strong group buffs. PS warriors are best not just because of the might generation, but because they also bring banners and they also contribute to dps. And mesmers… 100% quickness and alacrity are just too strong to pass.
And the thing is, it will always be more or less the same. You can change which professions fill certain slots, but there will always be an optimal composition, and there will always be optimal picks. And people will go for them, not for the second-best. Because, unless the second-best is pretty much a carbon-copy of the best, it will pretty much break the group.
Well, I think the problem in pve is mostly artificially created by the community/lfg expectations. I admit that there are a few cases (necro and ref for example) where balance is severely lacking. But at the end of the day you really dont need qT-Tier DPS to beat a boss. You need ppl who know mechanics and can play their class properly and still kill all bosses without a lot of problems, as long as you have a decent overall composition (enough heal, enough cc and enough offensive buffing).
The other point is, that the way we kill Raid bosses is heavily influenced by Speedguilds like qT.
It really does not make much of a difference if you kill VG (just as an example, numbers not reflecting reality) with 3:00 left, or with 0:30 left. Thats a difference of 2:30 that only matters if you want to set a new record. most players are not interested in that. I assume that most players are content if they kill a raid boss on first try.
Classes are different, of course. But, for example: if you balanced all classes in a way that their maximum dps rotation would amount to the same amount of DPS there would still be a best class, namely the one with the easiest rotation. If you now proceed to make all rotations equally simple/hard-congratulations, all classes are the same now.
Another way of ‘balance’ would be to make every class at least semi-mandatory, which is a cheap way to do it in the first place. Secondly it would make it super difficult to find a complete group.
TL;DR Communities approach to raids is way too tryhard. Class diversity also means some classes are stronger at i.e. DPS than others, which does not really matter in PVE unless you want to set a world record.
Humans aren´t real
Another thing is that we have developed a very rigid “way to do it” in Raids, which is oriented on said figurehead Guilds (Dont get me wrong, I have nothing against them, and find their informations very useful) because especially in LFG you need a strategy everyone knows. There are propably different approaches that are also able to kill bosses in a comfortable manner, and especially if you are in a static raid group of friends you could try to figure something out.
TL;DR 2 Class balance in PVE is heavily influenced by social factors
Humans aren´t real
The problem with having a decent overall off-meta composition is you need to have solid knowledge on the game mechanics, across all involved classes, to end up with one. It is simply easier and faster to stick with the meta. You don’t have to, but it works and it also somewhat reduces the potential for mistakes. Because this way at least pretty much anyone knows what to expect of any given profession/role in a raid.
Excelsior,
to me it sounds more it’s based to 80% on the elitist jerks you encounter.
They are in every game. I just remember my last “raid” ever in another well-known game where I used a skill differently and we probably were 30 seconds slower because of that – it was a flame fest, that I suck, my class is kitten etc. but had nothing to do with the role I played as.People were flat-out telling me before finally deciding for Thief, that “nobody will pick me for group content” and “If you play solo, that’s your best choice”. So if I tried, I’d probably also never get a spot in group content, even though I wonder what I am doing, because Thieves and Daredevils appear to actually use blunt force to fight their enemies – and not NERF darts and cotton balls as many, so-called meta and FOTM players describes us.
So long, change the elitism and you are fine.
On the other hand, why would you want to raid with people that dislike you?
I have to disagree for a few reasons.
1) Dungeons/ Fracatals
In GW2 dungeons and fractals could be done by anyone of any class. Simply put if you had individual skill you could carry 4 others. As slow as that process might be. If you got a good group you could finish your 3 fracs and 30-45 min instead of 1-2 hours. Even dungeons back in the day when GW2 first came out and everyone was crying it was to hard. I found a group of players who could all carry there own weight. Since we started running together we came up with unique team comps to make them go faster. Higher risk though which is what raids are missing.
2) The community
I agree the community judges itself but all my raid Wing kills were done on necro and rev. Some failed warrior attempts but all the kills on those 2 classes. I have 1 guild mate who has done all his kills on thief. Since i refuse to play the crap that PvP has turned into i gone more back to PvE. Well about 2 weeks ago i couldnt find a raid group to take me. I showed my 28 LI kills and they were like no if you were a good raider you would have 200. I was like alright what ever so i left. Another group said they were only LF condi ps warrior or ranger. Annother group said no one uses revs anymore.
Now thats all community based and i agree that isnt the games fault. But it is the games fault when it comes to the meta. Raids are not skill based its timed mechanics with certain builds that best complete raids and none of the bosses change that. There isnt a high DPS that will take down players which might force a rez meta game or a high sustain group. There isnt a boss that focus the people with the least amount of defense and has a multiple attack sequence to force blocks or kiting. Raids can be alot of fun but i quickly found out it was fun because it was new. Not because i was challenging.
3) Broken HOT specs
Now ive been a big ranter about the specs because they have broken all of the game imo. But even in raids if there is a non-hot spec you prefer to play, you cant bring into raids. No one is posting the NO-HOT TEAM SET UP RAID CLEAR. They are posting broken aspects of the new HOT specs that allow the question of is that broken? The portal at the bottom of Gors? The mesmer shared boons? All of which are spammable because of HOT specs.
Even in the rest of the game you wont have high level success if you dont run HOT. WvW and PvP speaking. In PvE you can run what ever build you want and thats great but in dungeons/fracs/PvP/WvW/Raids- if you bring a core build in there you are not playing 80% of what you could be by simply not running the meta spec.
That is a huge issue which the community takes into account when not letting certain classes into groups.
3) Broken HOT specs
Now ive been a big ranter about the specs because they have broken all of the game imo. But even in raids if there is a non-hot spec you prefer to play, you cant bring into raids. No one is posting the NO-HOT TEAM SET UP RAID CLEAR. They are posting broken aspects of the new HOT specs that allow the question of is that broken? The portal at the bottom of Gors? The mesmer shared boons? All of which are spammable because of HOT specs.
Um, what?!
You are aware the top dps classes, condi ranger and condi engi both do not run their elite spec at all, aren’t you?
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