Guild Wars 2

I’ll preface this post by reminding people that this is a topic of opinion rather than fact, so do not become hostile with each other and argue about who is right or wrong (as that concept does not apply here). I am also not saying that random drops don’t exist, but in comparison to other games and in comparison to currency rewards, they are very sparse. Also, everyone please keep in mind that RNG does not mean an impossibly low drop rate… RNG as a system is not out to screw you. That is a drop-rate problem.

It seems there are very few ways to get lucky and strike gold in this game. That makes it unexciting for some of us.

The heavy focus of GW2 on things like karma, dungeon tokens, and various other high-stack currencies really kills my desire to play this game, which I so very much want to enjoy.

Seeing the precise number of dungeons I have to run or amount of karma or gold I must acquire to get my desired reward does not ‘put a tangible guaranteed goal in sight’ (as some may think is the benefit of currency), but instead reminds me of just how far away that goal is.

A currency system actually guarantees that you will not find what you want within a certain amount of time. It eliminates any chance of being lucky. It makes the game a gind in the truest sense of the word, regardless of how much you buff the currency drops, because your first however-many runs of that dungeon are done only as work, for the sake of a non-random reward at the end. The same applies to gold or karma, wherever you farm it.

Another effect of these currencies is that once you have what you want from a particular dungeon or area (that is assuming you want ANYTHING other than karma and gold), you cease farming it, because the currencies are account-bound, and the things you buy with them are soulbound. There is nearly no point in revisiting a dungeon that you have everything you want from, except to grind more of a different currency (this is boring).

Other games I’ve played did not have this problem. Guildwars did not have this problem, for example, and I loved that game because of it. It had a few tokens here and there from completion of certain things, and gold existed and was used for much, but its main focus was not on grinding out a single currency for a guaranteed reward.

In games like that (and other games, including non-MMO), I had a chance of finding something amazing, worth a small or large fortune, regardless of whether it was my first run through the zone or my hundredth. In the best games, these valuable rewards are also tied to that particular area (such as in GW1). There was nothing stopping me from enjoying the feeling that I could potentially strike gold at any moment, from a chest or from a random monster kill.

Honestly I was quite hyped up about GW2 ever since it was announced, and got my friends into it, but I’ve been left disappointed by most things about the core of this game (the manner in which you obtain PVE rewards, the lack of SPVP variety and forced colours, the problems with too many particle effects in combat[this is huge because it is always present outside of solo play], a skill bar that you cannot rearrange).

No, it’s not because I had unrealistic expectations, because really all I expected was a base of Guildwars 1 with a third axis to move along… any other improvements would only have granted me more joy, but it seems ANET has taken many steps backwards.

There are nice features, but they are mostly fluff that wont keep me playing, like the art-style for armour, WvW, equal gear in SPVP, etc. Core features must be enjoyable before I can really enjoy any of the nice stuff that interacts with core features.

I desperately want to say that this game is fun, truly. I want a reason to play, and I want my friends (who all quit playing for similar reasons) to come back and play a fun game with me.

So I hope you guys can significantly fix this boring loot system up with more random tradeable drops, and less soulbound high-end desirables from tokens, karma, and other currencies.

Thanks.

Lol, and amidst tons of threads hating on RNG, one like this appears. :P

Jrunyon.3012:

Lol, and amidst tons of threads hating on RNG, one like this appears. :P

I can see how that is a funny thing, but if you think about it those complaints are really a symptom of the sparsity of random valuable drops. There are so few, and those that exist have such ridiculously low drop chances, that most people who want anything from the RNG system are pretty screwed. Those drops are also tied to the most desirable items in the game, so naturally many people will want them, and subsequently get screwed.

If people had a larger chance to find valuable drops randomly, and those things weren’t soulbound so they could trade for the thing they really seek, there would be much less complaining about RNG in general.

At least you do state that it is just your opinion. It also means that it is also your preference to have random loot. It’s fine in most cases but when taken to the extreme like in Diablo 3 you have a problem. You can spend over 100 hours playing the game and not get anything good. Of course, you may get really lucky and pick up a legendary in under 20 hours. It would still technically be a grind except there’s a strong chance you’ve wasted your time.

I should also correct you on dungeon tokens. They have been account bound for a while now. It’s exciting for some people to know that their efforts will finally pay off. You run a dungeon x number of times and you’re guaranteed that exotic chest piece. It is a bit of a grind and yes some people dislike grinds but at least the end result is satisfactory.

Now let’s look at the flip side with random loot. You run the dungeon x, a constant, number of times and you get an exotic chest piece. You are really ecstatic. You can’t believe you actually won something. All that hard work really paid off. But wait, what if after you run the dungeon x number of times and you got nothing? Yeah, perfectly okay with that… Well, I don’t buy it for a second that someone would prefer random chance and not getting anything over getting something but having to grind for it.

Solution to your very important problem:

1) RANDOMLY get rares from Orr or farming zone of your choice
2) Insert rares into Mystic Forge, RANDOMLY get precursor
3) Come back here and tell us you like randomness

zeromius.1604:

It’s fine in most cases but when taken to the extreme like in Diablo 3 you have a problem. You can spend over 100 hours playing the game and not get anything good.

But wait, what if after you run the dungeon x number of times and you got nothing? Yeah, perfectly okay with that… Well, I don’t buy it for a second that someone would prefer random chance and not getting anything over getting something but having to grind for it.

Well, yes, if someone happens to be unlucky and can also predict the future, knowing ahead of time that they will get nothing from their run, they would prefer a guaranteed drop. That goes without saying…

But when a system fails to reward a person meaningfully over 100 hours, that is a problem with drop-rates and not a problem with RNG as a concept. If your chance to find a valuable drop is the same as winning the lottery, then I would agree that I’d prefer a guaranteed reward instead.

On the other hand, ideally (IMO), there should be a random system which has a drop rate(and variety) such that a person who puts in time is extremely likely to be rewarded in some meaningful way. This means that unless you win the lottery of bad-luck, you WILL be rewarded in a RNG system. If not, it is a drop rate problem, not a RNG problem.

i can see where you’re coming from.. to a certain degree. just to get things straight, you’re not saying to do away with currency in game right? excuse if this sounds like a stupid question. it’s easy to feel the need to be justified for spending X amount of hours to receive Y as a reward, which i think is nice too, and they could perhaps up the drop-rate, but will that truly fix the problems you have with the game?
you mentioned you don’t like the rewads for PvE, there’s nothing in-game that will keep you around long enough or keep coming back to it, and that you were looking for essentialyl an improved Guild Wars 1. to be fair, i never played GW, and i love this game. i’ve stated this before and people ahve expectations of what a great game is to be – especially one they’ve been waiting for so long! and i can see that. however, you have to undersatnd that for games and developers to make changes, daringly sometimes, is not a bad thing. and just because your personal tastes or expectations don’t match up with the product when it’s finally out, doesn’t negate the fact that the game is a great game. perhaps, it’s just not for you and your friends. i know you said you want to enjoy the game, then perhaps you could adapt and find ways to enjoy the game? do note i’m not telling you to just suck everything up in life and that we have to change ourselves to enjoy something… that’s not what i am saying at all. but i truly believe that Guild Wars 2 is a game where it is pretty much what YOU as the end-user, choose to make it to be.

and hopefully my tone or words don’t come off as offensive. just tryign to have a conversation and better understand where you’re coming from.

akamon.2769:

i can see where you’re coming from.. to a certain degree. just to get things straight, you’re not saying to do away with currency in game right?

Not at all. Having some form of guaranteed reward is a nice thing to fall back on when your luck is going poorly, or for those who plain prefer it. They could easily keep the token rewards as they are while implementing some extra (equal) rewards through random drops. I just wish that random tradeable drops had a larger focus in this game.

gotcha. and fair enough. so the “rare items are supposed to be rare” argument wouldn’t work here, huh? but i agree. at least, based on the stories and tales told by others, either here or on other forms of social media and the interwebz, there are many times people who don’t seem to be farming for a certain something, play minimal hours, and get awesome drops (e.g. a Dusk from mobs), while those who have been farming consistently hours on end, receive at most an exotic they can’t use for their class.

though i feel it’s these people who are being more vocal? because it’s “out of the norm”. i am sure more people who do farm hours on end, who receive a lot of goodies, and great items, don’t voice it as much, ebcause it’s as expected? and vice versa, those who don’t farm much, if they don’t get anything, well.. they won’t say anything.

this is just a thought on the “drop-rate” or RNG of the game. the MF is a different story though. but we’d need a HUGE sample size to truly understand the drop-rates and RNG of the game and everyone would need to be honest about their findings.

I once (ok many times) ran instances in WoW countless times to get a single item I wanted. I constantly had the item either not show up, or someone else won it over me.

I hated that system.

Woodsman.3461:

Solution to your very important problem:

1) RANDOMLY get rares from Orr or farming zone of your choice
2) Insert rares into Mystic Forge, RANDOMLY get precursor
3) Come back here and tell us you like randomness

I know you can get exotics from rares, but it is possible to get precursors too? I wasn’t sure. The info on legendaries is sporadic. What level items can you combine and get level 80 results?

I respect your opinion and see where you’re coming from, but I’ll have to disagree with you. I still remembering farming UBRS / Stratholme / Scholo in vanilla WoW, back when 5-man instances were hard, spending hours on hours in those dungeons waiting for that one item to drop . . . which I would then lose in the roll-off. God in heaven never again
>.<

I like GW2 because as you mentioned there are multiple currencies and multiple paths to purchase. And its not THAT hard to earn gold, karma or tokens, not really, this game rewards you for everything. Like I go to Orr to farm ori and along the way pick up decent amounts of karma and gold without even noticing that much.

I have to agree. Grinding dungeons and farming events is all good and well, but for those of us that don’t enjoy those things, there’s not much excitement. I actually enjoy just running around killing random mobs, but there’s pretty much zero chance of getting anything shiny that would get someone excited…

It wouldn’t kill them to add maybe some minis or some super rare skins that come from world drops…because I, for one, don’t LIKE dungeons, and I don’t like farming the same events over and over again…

I would try to stay away from RNG in general for this game. For one, I don’t like it; and two, it only seems to bring problems. Example the 3 biggest factors of RNG in GW2: Clovers, Precursors, and the event BLC skins. All of these have been complained about to death, why? RNG. There are a few people who love the carrot on the stick RNG stuff but it’s already in-game. Legendaries. What? You don’t like the skin or it’s too tough? Then sell the lenendaries and be set for life. As for the difficulty, that’s pretty much all RNG is adding is a useless time sink.

Mutou.1407:

I would try to stay away from RNG in general for this game. For one, I don’t like it; and two, it only seems to bring problems. Example the 3 biggest factors of RNG in GW2: Clovers, Precursors, and the event BLC skins. All of these have been complained about to death, why? RNG. There are a few people who love the carrot on the stick RNG stuff but it’s already in-game. Legendaries. What? You don’t like the skin or it’s too tough? Then sell the lenendaries and be set for life. As for the difficulty, that’s pretty much all RNG is adding is a useless time sink.

All the negative things you’ve listed are problems with the scarcity of random drops and a poor drop rate. Part of the problem with the BLC skins in particular was that they were tied to real money AND had a crazy low drop rate on top of it. A lot of people wasted their money on BLC keys thinking that if they spent some reasonable amount of cash, they’d have a reasonable shot at the skins, but that clearly wasn’t the case.

Very few people would be complaining about RNG with a reasonable drop rate.
To be clear, I’m not suggesting that legendary precursors should just have their drop rates increased. I’m all for having some items being really rare and having a low drop rate. But it is a problem when the only items tied to a RNG system in this game worth anything are both very scarce in number, and have such low drop rates that most people don’t really have a decent shot at finding anything to get excited about.

If you’ve never had experience with games that had rewarding RNG systems, like Guildwars, and you’ve only experienced terribly unrewarding things like the current GW2 RNG system or Diablo 3 when it was released, or even WoW’s random drops, then it’s understandable that you would mistake RNG for some evil system that doesn’t reward anyone. But that is not the case. The fact that games use bad RNG systems doesn’t mean RNG as a system bad, any more than the fact that there are bad games means all games bad.

RNG only brings problems with a poorly tuned drop rate. RNG IS as rewarding as any other system if it is done correctly, as it was in the original Guildwars. It can be tuned so that on average, it is exactly as rewarding as any token system in fact; this is indisputable. It is not any more of a timesink than a token system. And in terms of fun that will usually be more rewarding for plenty of us because of the constant excitement rather than the guaranteed useless number of runs.

I abhor random drops. Nothing more idiotic than waiting on chance to reward you when there is a distinct possibility that you will never get the reward.

DarksunG.9537:

I abhor random drops. Nothing more idiotic than waiting on chance to reward you when there is a distinct possibility that you will never get the reward.

Again, this is a drop rate (and soulbound) problem, not a random drop problem… A properly tuned RNG system rewards you for your time over some period, either with a few valuable items that you can trade for the item you want, or for the actual item you seek. The chance that you will not be rewarded over a long period of time is practically nonexistant for a properly tuned system. Over short periods of time you may be unlucky and not be rewarded, which is not different from the guaranteed lack of reward in a currency system.

I am also not suggesting the removal of currency rewards, I am suggesting the implementation of more RNG rewards. Your guaranteed reward can stay.

I am very happy that the game focuses more on currencies than drop rates. After years of playing games where you could put in 2-3x the amount of effort a currency grind would require and STILL not get your item… and after seeing the terribad drop rates that GW2 has to offer for its RNG, I can honestly say that it would break my heart to see them implement yet more of the RNG that the majority of the game’s players seem to despise.

I’d like to see a far more currency based system, to be completely honest. To know how much work needs to be done and what I can do to get it.

In this regard, Arenanet did things right.

Shindar, you seem to contradict yourself in these posts… aparently all of the issues people bring up are not due to RNG but drop rates, yet you insist that the drop rates should not be changed. So if everything were put into this logic… ie. dungeon skins then everyone would qq about them because they are too low, which is a drop rate problem but the drop rate shoudln’t be increased according to you. Also as soon as you make an item like a skin drop too often it becomes over farmed and worthless… if its too rare its qq’d about. no one will ever be happy.

Now thats not to say that i disagree completely… I think that there should be some good random drops… I like randomly walking around high level areas killing things, why can’t i have the CHANCE to get a nice skin out of it?

To be honest i think that GW1 had it right. Lets say my end goal is obby armor… i have to grin FoW and the UW to get ectos and shards, these can be related to dungeon tokens (you are gurenteed some while doing it for completing it, the dropped ones are a bonus) but on top of that i had the RARE chance at an obby edge, or something else really rare (minis etc.) These random good drops are a carrot that keep me grinding, buy are no where gurenteed.

In gw1 i farmed UW a lot… i wanted that darn obby armor… when i say i farmed a lot, i mean several hours a day. I only got two items in that elite range (obby edge, ghostly mini, etc.) But the possiblility of these kept me doing it, even if it’s not my goal. The thrill made it worth it.

I think the only change gw2 needs to make is make decent drops for regular pve for those non hard core players, nothing game breaking or economy breaking, but also something worthwhile, not a green worth 10s that will take 2 weeks to sell on tp. but nothign worth 10g that is in super high demand. and then put in for elite area (dungeons or orr or something) that POSSIBILITY of a game breaker, that 100g item that hardly anyone will have at first and that is hard to farm but makes you feel like a BAMF if you own it. And then once it gets over farmed, make it more available and introduce something new (probably in an expansion) much like the fell blade after factions came out (i think my timing is right here?)

So long story short, keep dungeon rewards the same that gurentee will keep people in it. But add that super hard to get carrot for hard core players. Then add other rare drops in elite areas for the thrill and you got a good system. Also karma is fine. I think its a perfect implementation of a secondary currency.

Sorry if i come across as confrontational this is all just opinon as you stated in the opening.

oh and sorry, but everything after “Now thats not to say i disagree completely” is agreeing with you, just giving a little more of my thoughts in

zachzak.3185:

Shindar, you seem to contradict yourself in these posts… aparently all of the issues people bring up are not due to RNG but drop rates, yet you insist that the drop rates should not be changed. So if everything were put into this logic… ie. dungeon skins then everyone would qq about them because they are too low, which is a drop rate problem but the drop rate shoudln’t be increased according to you. Also as soon as you make an item like a skin drop too often it becomes over farmed and worthless… if its too rare its qq’d about. no one will ever be happy.

I can see how you get that impression, but if you look more deeply at what I’m saying there is no contradiction at all. I do think that some items should be very rare, and others not so rare, but I am not by any means insisting that all drop rates (or the overall drop rate for rare items) should be equal to the rarity of the legendary precursors. There should be a continuum of rarity for tradeable items that drop randomly, with enough variety that you can be rewarded in regular intervals without making all items less than legendary completely worthless and undesirable.

When I speak of the drop rate causing trouble, I am talking about the general drop rate of valuable items rather than the drop rate of a particular item, like a legendary precursor. There are also specific cases where the particular drop rate is the problem though (such as the BLC chest halloween skins).

It should be set up so that your chance of getting any particular item remains quite low, but that your chance of being rewarded with some valuable item is essentially guaranteed over a certain amount of time. This means that even if you do not get exactly what you want, you get something that you can trade for what you want. As discussed above, since things would be on a continuum of rarity/desirability, you also have the chance to strike gold and get an extremely rare item even if you’re not searching for it in particular, which you could trade for possibly multiple items that you do want.

This is in line with games like Guildwars 1 and (sometimes) Diablo games.

Shindar the Reaver.2518:

Mutou.1407:

I would try to stay away from RNG in general for this game. For one, I don’t like it; and two, it only seems to bring problems. Example the 3 biggest factors of RNG in GW2: Clovers, Precursors, and the event BLC skins. All of these have been complained about to death, why? RNG. There are a few people who love the carrot on the stick RNG stuff but it’s already in-game. Legendaries. What? You don’t like the skin or it’s too tough? Then sell the lenendaries and be set for life. As for the difficulty, that’s pretty much all RNG is adding is a useless time sink.

All the negative things you’ve listed are problems with the scarcity of random drops and a poor drop rate. Part of the problem with the BLC skins in particular was that they were tied to real money AND had a crazy low drop rate on top of it. A lot of people wasted their money on BLC keys thinking that if they spent some reasonable amount of cash, they’d have a reasonable shot at the skins, but that clearly wasn’t the case.

Very few people would be complaining about RNG with a reasonable drop rate.
To be clear, I’m not suggesting that legendary precursors should just have their drop rates increased. I’m all for having some items being really rare and having a low drop rate. But it is a problem when the only items tied to a RNG system in this game worth anything are both very scarce in number, and have such low drop rates that most people don’t really have a decent shot at finding anything to get excited about.

If you’ve never had experience with games that had rewarding RNG systems, like Guildwars, and you’ve only experienced terribly unrewarding things like the current GW2 RNG system or Diablo 3 when it was released, or even WoW’s random drops, then it’s understandable that you would mistake RNG for some evil system that doesn’t reward anyone. But that is not the case. The fact that games use bad RNG systems doesn’t mean RNG as a system bad, any more than the fact that there are bad games means all games bad.

RNG only brings problems with a poorly tuned drop rate. RNG IS as rewarding as any other system if it is done correctly, as it was in the original Guildwars. It can be tuned so that on average, it is exactly as rewarding as any token system in fact; this is indisputable. It is not any more of a timesink than a token system. And in terms of fun that will usually be more rewarding for plenty of us because of the constant excitement rather than the guaranteed useless number of runs.

I think I understand what you are trying to say. You want more RNG drops with a decent drop rate so you can make cash right? Well 2 problems that I can see, both very probable. 1, If the drop rate is high, everyone is going to farm it themselves and not pay you. Counterproductive. 2, Again if you want the drop chance to be decent then they are going to be worth crap. The rare stuff is expensive, doesn’t matter what it is. Then lower the drop rate? You might counter. Well then we get back to the fact that a lot of people hate RNG drops with a really crappy rate. There isn’t a big middle ground. Either it can be gotten solo, usually. Or is worth a stupid amount of gold because it is so kitten frustratingly rare.

Mutou.1407:

Shindar the Reaver.2518:

Mutou.1407:

I would try to stay away from RNG in general for this game. For one, I don’t like it; and two, it only seems to bring problems. Example the 3 biggest factors of RNG in GW2: Clovers, Precursors, and the event BLC skins. All of these have been complained about to death, why? RNG. There are a few people who love the carrot on the stick RNG stuff but it’s already in-game. Legendaries. What? You don’t like the skin or it’s too tough? Then sell the lenendaries and be set for life. As for the difficulty, that’s pretty much all RNG is adding is a useless time sink.

All the negative things you’ve listed are problems with the scarcity of random drops and a poor drop rate. Part of the problem with the BLC skins in particular was that they were tied to real money AND had a crazy low drop rate on top of it. A lot of people wasted their money on BLC keys thinking that if they spent some reasonable amount of cash, they’d have a reasonable shot at the skins, but that clearly wasn’t the case.

Very few people would be complaining about RNG with a reasonable drop rate.
To be clear, I’m not suggesting that legendary precursors should just have their drop rates increased. I’m all for having some items being really rare and having a low drop rate. But it is a problem when the only items tied to a RNG system in this game worth anything are both very scarce in number, and have such low drop rates that most people don’t really have a decent shot at finding anything to get excited about.

If you’ve never had experience with games that had rewarding RNG systems, like Guildwars, and you’ve only experienced terribly unrewarding things like the current GW2 RNG system or Diablo 3 when it was released, or even WoW’s random drops, then it’s understandable that you would mistake RNG for some evil system that doesn’t reward anyone. But that is not the case. The fact that games use bad RNG systems doesn’t mean RNG as a system bad, any more than the fact that there are bad games means all games bad.

RNG only brings problems with a poorly tuned drop rate. RNG IS as rewarding as any other system if it is done correctly, as it was in the original Guildwars. It can be tuned so that on average, it is exactly as rewarding as any token system in fact; this is indisputable. It is not any more of a timesink than a token system. And in terms of fun that will usually be more rewarding for plenty of us because of the constant excitement rather than the guaranteed useless number of runs.

I think I understand what you are trying to say. You want more RNG drops with a decent drop rate so you can make cash right? Well 2 problems that I can see, both very probable. 1, If the drop rate is high, everyone is going to farm it themselves and not pay you. Counterproductive. 2, Again if you want the drop chance to be decent then they are going to be worth crap. The rare stuff is expensive, doesn’t matter what it is. Then lower the drop rate? You might counter. Well then we get back to the fact that a lot of people hate RNG drops with a really crappy rate. There isn’t a big middle ground. Either it can be gotten solo, usually. Or is worth a stupid amount of gold because it is so kitten frustratingly rare.

Well, there are other ways to make cash, but they’re not at all exciting. I’m more focused on staving off the boredom than I am making gold, but I digress…

The two parts of the single problem you’ve listed are not inherent to a RNG system, but they do indeed come into play when you have a lack of variety in your RNG loot. For example, if all people really want are legendary precursors, and nothing else, then there is no way to keep them really rare without making them frustrating to obtain. You could make them drop more, but then they would no longer be rare and valuable. That is the current situation we have.

On the other hand, if a system has a large variety of desirable loot, and your chance to get one from that pool is reasonable, but at the same time the chance to get any particular piece is low, that is a good system that does not have the problem from above. You could keep the rare items rare, while still rewarding people in an RNG system. Keep in mind that this isn’t just a theory I’m coming up with; it’s been done multiple times in practice in other games. Supplement the RNG system with the currency rewards and you get a winning system, really.

How would any reward that is commonly given out, while not exactly what you want, but still valuable, be worth trying to obtain? I just don’t see how anything becomes valuable without being either a frustratingly low drop rate, or a really long process of collecting materials/quest. The really low drop rate is what makes the item desirable. You want people to know that you were that guy who got that skin. If it is commonly found through a high RNG chance the skin becomes less desirable and defeats the whole point of the post. This is all my opinion of course.

why does it have to be one or the other. why can’t bosses of dungeons have a chance to drop a piece of good useable loot for those of us who like the excitement of random loot.

and then have tokens for those that don’t want to rely on the RNG.

to me part of the fun of dungeons is the anticipation of what you are getting from a down boss mob … if anything. Right now that has been completely taken away from me in GW2 to the point where i don’t even look at what i get from chests. dungeons right now are nothing but Token grinds.

Khallis.5708:

why does it have to be one or the other. why can’t bosses of dungeons have a chance to drop a piece of good useable loot for those of us who like the excitement of random loot.

and then have tokens for those that don’t want to rely on the RNG.

to me part of the fun of dungeons is the anticipation of what you are getting from a down boss mob … if anything. Right now that has been completely taken away from me in GW2 to the point where i don’t even look at what i get from chests. dungeons right now are nothing but Token grinds.

This is what i was trying to say in my post but a put a little more delicately than i did, just to clarify if i wasn’t clear

You have a point to your post. Personally I think if they added unique rare skins or even runes/sigils that you can ONLY get as a drop from the dungeon, it would make it more worthwhile to run (for you and everyone). This way you would have the guaranteed armor/weapon/etc. skin in your sight that you know you’ll get from an X amount of runs, and you’ll have the other unique armor/weapon/etc. you can possibly get during each run.

OEXTRA.1780:

You have a point to your post. Personally I think if they added unique rare skins or even runes/sigils that you can ONLY get as a drop from the dungeon, it would make it more worthwhile to run (for you and everyone). This way you would have the guaranteed armor/weapon/etc. skin in your sight that you know you’ll get from an X amount of runs, and you’ll have the other unique armor/weapon/etc. you can possibly get during each run.

^^ This. This alone would finally get my guildies wanting to run dungeons like we did in GW; and pull those that retreated back to WoW back to play with me again.

I completely hate RNG designed content. Random, for me, is simply not fun. I prefer to have a goal to work towards where I know for an absolute fact that X amount of work will lead to a reward.

The problem with randomness is that it’s completley possible to never beat the odds, no matter how good the odds are in your favor. I remember during one of WoW’s holiday events players had at least a week to acquire toothpicks, which were a random drop from a reward bag that (if I remember correctly) you could obtain every hour. I happened to get a ludicrous number of toothpicks. However, there were people in my guild who obtained more reward bags than I had and never saw a toothpick. It’s just ridiculous how badly something based on RNG can go, and it’s extremely disappointing and utterly frustrating.

One of the big things that attracted me to GW2 was the lack of emphasis on randomness compared to some other recent RNG-infested nightmares I’ve played (TERA). I would not want this game to go more in that direction ever. There are plenty of MMOs that embrace the RNG method of design and people are welcome to go play those instead if GW2’s method doesn’t appeal to them. We do not have to have this game turned into every other game.

The OP has a point, though a bit shortcoming imo. In my opinion one of the best reward systems I’ve seen so far was in the much-cursed clocktower.

1) Getting them required skill, as anyone who got there will agree. You eventually noticed you got better each run.
2) It also required effort, as anyone will agree. For some, too much effort perhaps, but the idea is great.
3) Luck was a minor factor. Getting all chests I think the minimum was 1+3+5+7=16 bags, the max 1+5+7+10=23? That’s an about 50% luck bonus. I’d say this can well be stretched to a 100% luck bonus.
(Thus, the three main factors all represented fairly)
4) While it didn’t work out I s’pose, the idea of the mid-level chests was great: a player who can’t yet complete it, can still get a smaller reward. But stopping to smell the roses made it harder to reach the garden.

After that, of course, you had the terrible ToT bag odds. Still, I generally liked that system. Had all the possible drops been craftable (essentially, with all the mats you got on “failure”), it would’ve been fantastic.

I’d say we can use more of that idea. To put this in, say, a dungeon context:
- Add a luck factor. Say, half the tokens, but the other half goes effectively to an endboss chest, which may drop a dungeon item. Thus, unlucky players still get 50% of what they’re entitled to, but players will feel that luck factor.
- Add Challenges, comparable to the GW1 mission bonus objectives. Completing them may for instance raise the chest’s drop odds. These should however be hard enough that most groups won’t complete all the challenges. Thus rewarding skill, though it’s not required.
- Effort’s already represented.

When it comes to (future?) legendaries, I’d love the three factors to be properly represented, and RNG not being the pain it is now. Clovers nicely represent luck (the larger number with better odds seems nice) – a consideration is to make an alternative recipe with lower odds, but higher possible reward, for the gamblers. The gifts represent effort. Third item should represent skill (for instance, a reward from challenges like clocktower; making several different challenges and/or allowing it to be crafted for a high price might prevent a block). The precursor itself should be the easy part, as far as I’m concerned it could just be a special crafted weapon.

A simpler option for the precursor: at forge failure, reward weapon shards, with which one can craft the weapon. Taking a number from the hat: say there’s a 1% drop chance for a pc, then it can be lowered to 0.5%, but 200 shards is enough to craft the weapon. Thus a player effectively still’d get 2 precursors from 200 attempts, average, but he’s guaranteed 1.

Well, just my opinion. Keep luck a factor, because we like getting lucky, but not a dominant one that blocks progress for many players.

I totally agree with the OP as to most of the loot concerns , I loved the loot system in gw1 , the fact you might get an uber rare crystalline sword or a stygian reaver , was what kep me playing for years on end . I love trading and selling to other players kitten i must have spent 2 years just selling stuff in lions arch lol … oh the good memories

RNG is good for “additional” rewards or “additional” drops.
RNG fails when it’s the only way to get a specific reward or when it becomes part of the gearing process (Gear treadmill for example).

If Anet added “additional” drops to say, dungeon bosses and chests; then in addition to the tokens – a great deal of replay value would be added.
As it is now, once a player has their tokens needed for their gear, there’s little reason to ever return to a specific dungeon (RNG would address this).
Additionally, if a dungeon doesn’t have a skin a player likes, there’s really no reason to go there (again, RNG addresses this).

So, RNG on “additional” items that offer a reward in addition to the tokens would go a long way. Also, tokens would be better spent as universal or at the very least, tokens from one dungeon should be able to purchase tokens from another at a slightly increased exchange rate (2:1 maybe).

In this, a play looking for CM or CoE (like me) and can’t find a group or enough party members can at least join the constant AC groups and make some progress towards my own goals while helping others.

Just my opinion of course, but that’s what I would love to see.

Well yes is like the presecutors i try to craft over 200 times i think i gets mostly lost all times.

I think we need some Recipes for the presecutors, sometimes i fell extremely boring when i try to craft this and that mostly all i see tons of people farming farming farming dungeon dungeon all 24/7 and is extremely boring mega hiper grind fest, for nothing.

Other point i see it destroyed much markets is the system of soul bound, sould bound on adquire …. i really hate that. i mostly dont sell much i prefer to gift to a guildmates if need. but all is of the trading post with the overpized fee now.

Now for example x presecutors are like 400 gc when 1 month before was like much 40 golds people used loots of exploits to get and get gold ingame. i never exploited nothing , that so shame for me.

Other thing i will like is some areas with pk system first time when i see guildwars 2 years ago i was thinking will have some pk system like aion or at least some pk maps will be very funny, figth vs boosses gvg tvt etc.

Go RANDOMNESS!!! I’m totally for it.

Fine, throw RNG into it. But make a different way to obtain the item as well. Even if it is harder than grinding dungeons hoping to the RNG gods that your morning sacrifice worked. That way you please both sides. The people who need that static goal, plus the people who are really into RNG. That’s the only way I can see this working.

This Halloween event made me realize how much I completely despise RNG. I would be quite sad if that level of irritation became a core mechanic in the game.

Its hilarious how I posted a topic a few weeks ago regarding the same thing and many other faults of the game and got completely flamed. They’ve taken so many steps back from Guild Wars and I don’t understand how they could have.

Tolmos.8395:

This Halloween event made me realize how much I completely despise RNG. I would be quite sad if that level of irritation became a core mechanic in the game.

How is it not? You can farm for hours and hours and hours and get a rare, not an exotic a rare. someone else can farm for 30 minutes and get a precurser drop. rng is the core of the loot system of this game anyone who dosent see that is blind. Granted loot on this game means a different skin for your lvl 80 gear. The only difference between the halloween event rng and the everyday non event rng is that you were trying to get mad king armor or arachnophobia or crossing or mad moon instead of a precurser. the end result changed but the path to it stayed the same.

[Opinion – as usual]

The Halloween Items, Precursors and blatant cash grabs that were the Black Lion Chests are examples of RNG done badly.

The RNG should be added to award “additional” items of value (at this point, that means only Exotic items – sadly). That can mean getting a dungeon skinned drop or unique skin from that boss/chest that can’t be gotten outside that dungeon. Using AC as an example: That might mean getting a Ghastly weapon that glows a different color than the Token earned ones – something that simple.
That items must not be soul/account bound as it is the reward for running the dungeon in “addition” to the tokens earned. – This is important because at some point, players will not need the tokens so they need a reason to keep going back or go in the first place*.

*If a player, like myself, finds the armor in certain dungeons hideous, they wont bother to run those dungeons. CoF is such a dungeon for myself. I find the flame armor to be cheap looking, silly and lacking of anything but cliche. I have therefore never once bothered to enter the dungeon as there is simply no point in my doing so.
If a solid RNG were in place that always rewarded me a dungeon skinned item looted from a RNG table that I could then sell on the TP; I might give it a look.

So, RNG is good when it is from a limited loot table of “valuable” items. RNG is bad when it becomes a wall for holiday items, or the only way to get upgrades. RNG is the worst when (like in D3) everything pulls from the same loot table and 99% of everything we get is merchant trash, 0.9% is sellable on the TP and the final 0.1% we can actually use. – numbers gleefully pulled out of the air and slapped in the post with an evil grin. :P

dimgl.4786:

They’ve taken so many steps back from Guild Wars and I don’t understand how they could have.

Word.

As a Guild Wars veteran, I completely agree with the OP. When implemented correctly, RNG can be quite a rewarding system. And ANet already showed that they’re more than capable of implementing it properly into a game and I simply don’t understand how they screwed it up so much in Guild Wars 2.

the beauty of GW2’s high end content is that you know exactly how much time it’ll take you to get it, rather than being bound by sheer luck and repeating content ad infinitum.

“GW2 needs the same focus on currencies and more on randomness”

Fixed. And anyone comparing Guild Wars to Guild Wars 2 needs to stop. It’s pretty obvious the ArenaNet of yesteryear is long gone.