Guild Wars 2

I was very exited when AN promised that upcoming GW2 will be different then standard MMO. The game supposed to be fun, has no underpowered classes, has dynamic events that scale to the number of players, player char death (which is not fun) is minimized by introducing downed state, etc.

Well, after playing several classes and level them up to level 80, I can tell that this is not the case. Worse, I can see a trend in game design to replace fun with “kill the player char” and other things that nothing more than a bad if not sadistic jokes.

When I refer to “kill the player char”, I mean situations when player character gets damage that kill it and that can not be avoided. Basically this is unfair play from game toward player since player can not win. I am sure everyone can remember suddenly re-spawned mobs that aggro you, bosses that kill in 1-2 hits that you can not avoid due to conditions or other reasons, etc.

What about Christmas sadistic joke when present opens bunch of mobs 20 levels higher that you. This shows the attitude towards players. Cheating is ok as well, how else you describe cases when veterans are more powerful then some champions, when bosses restore full HP etc. All this is designed to kill player char just one more time.

Dynamic events potentially fun and they do scale but cruel joke is there as well: most of them do not scale down enough if there is only 1 player around. So the message player gets is : “See the event, would not it be fun to do it? Good, now go away and grind because we will not let you do this event!”
Worse, such events can block POI, so it is double sadistic joke.

Storyline – same issue, some parts are designed to make sure player char will die. I can continue bringing more and more examples.

On top of that, when it is bad enough for one class, it is way worse for another, classes are way not equal.

Do GW2 designers really think that people would quit game if they can do all events, if they can play any character and have fun? Do they think that character death is most desirable for player, or staring at event and can do nothing about since no one else around is the players dream?

I think I am quitting GW2, not because I did everything in GW2 (I think I did 20-25% at most) but because I am effectively not allowed to access the rest of GW2 content due to the reasons I listed above and similar.

I still have fun… I hear ppl talk about bugs, unbalance, glitches, sucky developers… Obviously it’s all there but I don’t feel like it’s my problem just yet since I still have fun. Casual player for life. Yet I get chewed out sometimes for not spazzing out over a million problems that I haven’t even encountered yet.

Homer Simpson is a blighted moron, but he once said something true; Just because I don’t care doesn’t mean I don’t understand. Live in the now and enjoy the simple things with this game, or go. It’s up to you.

Some part of me is sensing that you might not have a lot of combat experience (dodging, running some kind of condition removal for yourself via traits or utilities, etc). Lack of experience can make any game seem more difficult than it is if you try to do things you shouldn’t before you’re ready.

I’m not trying to insult you, it just sounds like this is the case.

Just to warn you, you’re going to be seeing a lot of “L2P” posts from people who don’t understand that what you’ve expressed is a legitimate problem that will hurt the game long-term.

I call it “cheap shots”. It’s a mechanic that the game’s developers became far too fond of using in late-game content and dungeons especially, whereby they give the player limited-to-no reaction time and hit them with an instant-kill of some sort, whether it be a trap or monster attack. Apparently someone thought that this made their game “harder” and that it would encourage more skillful play with working with teams, when in actuality all it really does is embitter the players and drag out the run of whatever content they’re playing.

Players don’t like to go into a fight knowing they should win, only to get killed by a single blow. And to some degree, it may be “L2P”, sure. But in many cases it’s not, it’s the game actually being designed to have monsters and traps that give you very little reaction time and will instantly down you if you miss that tiny window. This doesn’t make me feel like your content is more challenging, it makes me feel cheated, like you couldn’t throw an appropriate challenge at me and so settled for OHKOs instead.

My hope is that the upcoming patches to the game will cull much of this mechanic from the game, because it’s an ongoing problem that really weakens the game as a whole. And I strongly suspect it’ll scare away a lot of newer players as well if they don’t fix it promptly, because the game’s already got a decent learning curve from the very start and doesn’t need “cheap shots” tacked on to make it even more frustrating.

I agree with Christos. Sounds like you are having some seriously trouble with Pve =/ which I find it to be a breeze. Again not trying to insult you but perhaps you need to try to look into other alternatives? I love the game and the reasons you listed seems like an skill issue is all

here’s the thing. gw2 was made with a downed state in between being on your feet and dying. i guess the ‘cheap shots’ force players to experience the downed state and learn how to use the skills available to them in that condition. this is not something i agree with because it’s as graceful as an axe murder, but thankfully it is not a common occurance.

most of the mobs with non-telegraphed 1hkos are bosses meant to be tackled in a group. which means teamplay of some sort like res-ing your teammates when they’re downed.

rule of the thumb is if you’re getting 1hko-ed by lots of things, you should look to get more effective hp, be it toughness, vitality, or both.

i see lots of people getting 1 shotted by lupicus (without grub buffs) in arah simply from his normal ranged attack. i personally have no problems surviving it. if you choose to run higher level instances or events with 11k life at lvl 80 for example, don’t point the fingers at the devs for putting in cheap 1hkos. get more effective hp, use your dodges, and utilize your skills properly to avoid or negate damage.

if you play a glass cannon, expect to go down if you mess up. if you play a chunky character, and still go down all the time, the issue isn’t with the game. it’s with you.

critickitten.1498:

Just to warn you, you’re going to be seeing a lot of “L2P” posts from people who don’t understand that what you’ve expressed is a legitimate problem that will hurt the game long-term.

I call it “cheap shots”. It’s a mechanic that the game’s developers became far too fond of using in late-game content and dungeons especially, whereby they give the player limited-to-no reaction time and hit them with an instant-kill of some sort, whether it be a trap or monster attack. Apparently someone thought that this made their game “harder” and that it would encourage more skillful play with working with teams, when in actuality all it really does is embitter the players and drag out the run of whatever content they’re playing.

Players don’t like to go into a fight knowing they should win, only to get killed by a single blow. And to some degree, it may be “L2P”, sure. But in many cases it’s not, it’s the game actually being designed to have monsters and traps that give you very little reaction time and will instantly down you if you miss that tiny window. This doesn’t make me feel like your content is more challenging, it makes me feel cheated, like you couldn’t throw an appropriate challenge at me and so settled for OHKOs instead.

My hope is that the upcoming patches to the game will cull much of this mechanic from the game, because it’s an ongoing problem that really weakens the game as a whole. And I strongly suspect it’ll scare away a lot of newer players as well if they don’t fix it promptly, because the game’s already got a decent learning curve from the very start and doesn’t need “cheap shots” tacked on to make it even more frustrating.

This. You can safely ignore the L2P posts as they would simply be coming from an inexperienced gamer, even if well meaning. An experienced gamer has a visceral response to cheap mechanics as they are aspects of bad game design and they are certainly present in this game. I wouldn’t call them prevalent, just present.

Cheap mechanics do exist in games and in some respects Agony is just that in GW2. But for general PvE I see no problem in a boss or even a general mob having powerful moves as it makes the game more challenging. The Karkas for example have that five shot go’ey stuff they attack you with to start off with which hits very hard. Learn how to dodge/block that and then kill the Karka.

As for Agony itself it is a little cheap and I personally think there should be ways to negate the damage outside of ascended equipment. Maybe new skills that have AR built in? I dont know, thats another topic.

Well, I just played one char to 80, but I havent seen something that isnt dodgeable or you dont have the chance to remove it. You should give a concrete example of what you are talking about.

Dynamic events arent thought for being able to do for 1 person. Not at least at the moment. We’ll see what happens in the next few patches.

And well yeah, classes arent equal, of course they arent, it would be bored if it were that way. Some have stronger pve, others lower, thats for sure. But they all excel at something if you get its true nature (although leveling a mesmer really sucks lol).

Er… No. It’s just you. There are very, very, very, very few, if any, unavoidable (without trial-and-error or precogniscence) death situations. I think I only came across one or two, and only on completely optional jumping puzzles (kitten Griffon’s Rook Run… Not even joking…). Every other death is exclusively your own fault.

All of the game’s content is easy enough to solo, except for group-specific events, which are designed to be, as the game quickly points out, done with a group. Seriously, you can’t miss them, they have a tag with [Group Event] on them. Even then I’ve been quite successful at doing those with 2 or 3 man parties only, and I’ve even soloed a few.

I’ve leveled a Ranger to 80 by complete accident (I was trying to stay at the same general level as a couple of friend’s characters, but ended up getting to 80 by simple exploration), and I’m now taking my Necro down the same road (currently at 64). I’m actually soloing content several levels above my Necro’s level, including veterans and skill-point-veterans 3 and 4 levels above me (sometimes more, just try to stick bellow 7 levels of difference due to constant “glancing”) without much problem.

Really, if your issue is “the whole game is too tough” I have bad news for you mate… It’s honestly not the game…

@Raine, i totally agree with you!

To the OP, there are more flaws that it isnt the fun at lvl 80 anymore.
I got worldexplorer, thats done, most jumpingpuzzles are done, what is left?

Doing DE’s, dungeons and killing mobs over and over again to get some ingame gold.
Dont sell the T6 mats as you need it for a precursor, what is far away to buy as you
have to save the most expansive mats for a legendary every to get.

That mean, if you ever got the amount of gold to buy a precursor.
If you dont want a legendary, what else is there to do after JP’s and hitting WorldExplorer right now.

I have a feeling that drops (rare’s in Orr from DE’s) are stealthnerfed again with
last week patch (not only me, but everybody i ask in party’s are feeling the same),
what means more grinding DE’s in Orr for Ecto’s and less incoming gold.

Normal mobs in DE’s drop better loot then spending your time at Champ’s or Vet’s.
Chestloot in Orr are nerfed also, Grenth gives, with MF 200% 2 blues and 2 greens,
Melandru doesnt seems to have chestloot anymore.

Ill never do dungeon’s in MF gear, as i dont wanna screw my party.

Mini’s or Pets are only aviable through the gemstore or the TP, not a mob who drops it.

What im trying to say, is that loot got stealthnerfed more and more, forging people to buy gems with real money more and more.
The grinding for some ingame money is getting more.
With giving us less fun, grinding the same things over and over.

If Arenanet would give us more to do, like fishing, many people would love that!
Or mobs to kill without DR with a change of getting a mini, people will have fun again!

Even if i a buy a card with real money to get gems, the fun wont raise as the boring grind and nothing else to do will be still there.

Yes, im thinking to return to a game with monthly (sucking) fee, left it for GW2, as im missing the horrible grind to kill 10K mobs in that for the pet i wanted, and could also do other (relaxing) things aswell.

Rest my case.

For those who say PVE is a breeze, I would suggest to solo Cathedral of Eternal Radiance event in Malchor’s Leap (where you need to kill princess). Actually be my guest and duo it. It is blocking POI and SP, I know person who waited a week before she could do it – there was nobody around or nobody around wanted to do it because this event is just nuts.

If you just use PVE to zip to level 80, then you will not find most of the problems I have mentioned. If you like me who like to explore huge rich PVE content, do map explorations, events, then you’ll get to know those things. Again, starting area are more forgiving but this is just an exception.

Group events are the distinctive feature of GW2. Since population dropped, there are a lot of examples when such events are not done for hours and days. Why is it wrong to allow player to solo them? I witness myself many times group events that can be soloed (very few) started by 1 player and then others joined. GW2 has scaling mechanism to take into account number of players, so this was fun. Quite opposite, most events that can not be done solo stays undone, 1 player pass, later another, etc. Nobody want to stay and stare at the event hoping eventually enough players will gather to do this event.

Anyway none of you who do not see issue with PVE commented on the question at the end of my original post:
Would you quit game if you were able to do all events even if nobody around and have to die much less? I doubt so and this is the key that determine how many players GW2 will have. I never heard about any MMO that treated large players number as a bad thing, so game design should concentrate on this. As a business, AN major goal should be to keep as many players as possible, not minimal.

OP, neither you or GW2 are at fault. Different people find different things enjoyable, much like peoples taste in music. I believe ANet is trying to make an enjoyable game for the largest possible playerbase, but, you can’t please everyone all the time. I’m not going to discuss the issues of personal preferences and how they affect our perception, I will just give an example. I started playing about a month after launch in Metrica Province. One of the bosses is a champion called the “fire elemental”. I was doing the event chain in the reactor for the first time and got to the last part. The fire elemental spawned and one shotted the whole room, downed players everywhere and any attempt to rescue them was almost instant death. I respawned and went back inside the reactor. Looking at the fire elemental from the next room, it was simply overwhelming in power and appearance. It cast a moving fire spell on the ground and could one shot you from at least twice the range of a rifle or bow. It was also spawning embers so you couldn’t even hide behind nearby pillars. Some might call this cheap mechanics, I though it was awesome and it transcended the idea of “fun”. Yesterday I was playing my level 11 thief alternate in Metrica. Someone said on map chat that they had soloed the fire elemental with a level 17 character. Did they miss anything? Maybe not since they seemed happy enough.

@Blissified are you a elist jerk to say something to the poster above you?

There are many complains already at the forums that no way there is a chance to do events solo, or even do area’s solo and alone, as mobs hits far to hard, stuns and with a stuns of around 5-10 mobs hitting you, your char is dead meat!

Respawns at the moment you killed a group…….right at your feet with no change to get a bit health again.

Easy? No!

I know, I see players on my server who are just having a difficult time doing PvE and I do try to help as much as I can for them, but the best advise I can give is take it slow an think of what weapon would be better served in what you want to accomplish an try not to lose your cool an get frustrated cuz that’ll kill ya 9 times out 10, an yes there are alot of DE’s that do need to be tweeked abit but alot of the harder one’s I came back to at a later time. but GW 2 for the most part is soloable you just need to be patient dont rush it.

Maveric.8369:

For those who say PVE is a breeze, I would suggest to solo Cathedral of Eternal Radiance event in Malchor’s Leap (where you need to kill princess).

Priestess, actually.

Also, do correct me if I’m wrong but does it not read [Group Content] on the event info? That probably means it’s designed to be done by a group. Probably.

1. Respawn rate – This is almost as bad (but in some cases worse) as Borderlands2. 2-3 kills into an area and the kill #1 (if not#2 as well) has already respawned. The devs ask for specific examples. I can’t think of a single cave that does NOT do this. So you have to fight your way in and fight your way out.

1. Mob scaling. I get that this is a ‘multiplayer’ game. However in the open world in a non-event or skill point area the mob’s seem to multiply. See 1-2 things near each other to kill? Guess what, start fighting and you may suddenly find yourself battling a 1/2 dozen or more before your dead!

1. Hearts. It really kittens me off when the heart task is to somehow single handedly enter an enemy camp (passing through multiple mobs and event zones) and do something. Often times simply entering the areas will trigger the even(s) and your trapped!

1. last but not least, who’s idea was it to force the player to ‘dodge’ into a red circle? Ever get 3-4 of them circles all around you? (try dodging out of THAT!)

Some elements of this game are indeed challenging and do require skill. Other elements are simply chickenkitten tactics.

You want to make the game already easier than what it is?
Can I quit now if that’s going to happen?

Give me an example of any class that you’re having trouble with, in which situation and I’ll give you some great tips on how to handle the situations you were describing.

Unbelievable.

ah… all the things that sounded good when heard but turned out not to be exactly how i imagined them.

lets say DODGE. wow, so cool, i will be able to dodge. turns out only 2 times:( then w8 for cooldown. and i must agree that balance between dodge and unblockable one hit kills is forcing you to get already limited skill (3) choices to survivability… and its on 10 min cooldown so the down state is really unavoidable.

yeah, i like the team play but not the kind where i must be helped up to get back to combat while my team mates are risking getting downed as well… there are already bosses known for avoiding helping up because it will hurt team more than help…

Maveric.8369:

Well, after playing several classes and level them up to level 80,

I think I am quitting GW2, not because I did everything in GW2 (I think I did 20-25% at most) but because I am effectively not allowed to access the rest of GW2 content due to the reasons I listed above and similar.

You got several classes to 80, but end with not seeing or doing much of GW’s 2, hmmm….

Horrorscope.7632:

Maveric.8369:

Well, after playing several classes and level them up to level 80,

I think I am quitting GW2, not because I did everything in GW2 (I think I did 20-25% at most) but because I am effectively not allowed to access the rest of GW2 content due to the reasons I listed above and similar.

You got several classes to 80, but end with not seeing or doing much of GW’s 2, hmmm….

I still run into quests that I never saw before on many of my characters, and I’ve dumped almost 800 hours into this game now.

Please refrain from questioning his honesty.

critickitten.1498:

Horrorscope.7632:

Maveric.8369:

Well, after playing several classes and level them up to level 80,

I think I am quitting GW2, not because I did everything in GW2 (I think I did 20-25% at most) but because I am effectively not allowed to access the rest of GW2 content due to the reasons I listed above and similar.

You got several classes to 80, but end with not seeing or doing much of GW’s 2, hmmm….

I still run into quests that I never saw before on many of my characters, and I’ve dumped almost 800 hours into this game now.

Please refrain from questioning his honesty.

It’s my choice to… I’m not stating he cannot state his as you are doing to me… he’s only seen 20%? I asked a question, no more, stand down.

Horrorscope.7632:

It’s my choice to… I’m not stating he cannot state his as you are doing to me… he’s only seen 20%? I asked a question, no more, stand down.

No. You’re not stating an opinion, you’re blatantly accusing him of lying about how much he’s played.

And I’m asking you rather politely to please refrain from doing so, and to contribute something of value to this discussion.

The OP post this about “say goodbye to fun” ingame, but his post seems likely being taking over about people raging towards each other.

You dont seem to understand what the OP was asking and were the discussion ends by now.

Hope a moderator will close this first started lovely topic and raging topic now soon.

MaRko.3165:

1. last but not least, who’s idea was it to force the player to ‘dodge’ into a red circle? Ever get 3-4 of them circles all around you? (try dodging out of THAT!)

Some elements of this game are indeed challenging and do require skill. Other elements are simply chickenkitten tactics.

Had to laugh. I always remember the Inquest grenadiers that you meet somewhere around level 12-14 leveling out of the asura starting area. You dodge out of a red circle into a red circle. You dodge again and in a nano second you are in another red circle. Wait a minute, dodge used to be a working mechanic. By then you are thoroughly chilled so you can’t even walk out. I wonder if they realize they are training people to just stand still and fight regardless of the flow of combat.

Raine.1394:

MaRko.3165:

1. last but not least, who’s idea was it to force the player to ‘dodge’ into a red circle? Ever get 3-4 of them circles all around you? (try dodging out of THAT!)

Some elements of this game are indeed challenging and do require skill. Other elements are simply chickenkitten tactics.

Had to laugh. I always remember the Inquest grenadiers that you meet somewhere around level 12-14 leveling out of the asura starting area. You dodge out of a red circle into a red circle. You dodge again and in a nano second you are in another red circle. Wait a minute, dodge used to be a working mechanic. By then you are thoroughly chilled so you can’t even walk out. I wonder if they realize they are training people to just stand still and fight regardless of the flow of combat.

Very good point, indeed its true!

critickitten.1498:

Horrorscope.7632:

It’s my choice to… I’m not stating he cannot state his as you are doing to me… he’s only seen 20%? I asked a question, no more, stand down.

No. You’re not stating an opinion, you’re blatantly accusing him of lying about how much he’s played.

And I’m asking you rather politely to please refrain from doing so, and to contribute something of value to this discussion.

I have to agree OP is stating an issue that needs to be looked at. I Have 2 level 80s in full exotic and 600+ hrs in. There are events and dungeons I have never done. Hell I havent done Arah Ever – not once. Does that negate my experience no it does not.

This game cant afford to keep losing players it is getting really bad now and they really need to overhaul their pve system like the op says.

I’m playing other games waiting for the day that my engineer won’t be completely useless in pve. I’m also waiting for them to fix the DR and lower loot drops issues and the broken MF so that legit farmers which they profess to accept and want as members of their playerbase are no longer punished.

Horrorscope.7632:

Maveric.8369:

Well, after playing several classes and level them up to level 80,

I think I am quitting GW2, not because I did everything in GW2 (I think I did 20-25% at most) but because I am effectively not allowed to access the rest of GW2 content due to the reasons I listed above and similar.

You got several classes to 80, but end with not seeing or doing much of GW’s 2, hmmm….

I have 6 level 80’s with 11 characters total. Last time I checked I was around 36% map completion. Map completion has not been a priority as I enjoy playing many characters. With over 1,000 hours played I’ve seen and done a lot, just on 11 characters. His map completion only indicates he hasn’t focused on map completion, you seem intent on making something more of it. Your post is not helpful in any way.

Raine.1394:

With over 1,000 hours played

At least 6 hours a day 7 days a week

critickitten.1498:

Horrorscope.7632:

It’s my choice to… I’m not stating he cannot state his as you are doing to me… he’s only seen 20%? I asked a question, no more, stand down.

No. You’re not stating an opinion, you’re blatantly accusing him of lying about how much he’s played.

And I’m asking you rather politely to please refrain from doing so, and to contribute something of value to this discussion.

Please, who are you? And I don’t even care if you were someone. I just find it hard ro believe, that is all to only be 20% done with multiple 80’s. That said it’s not impossible, just very improbably, no big. If I were calling anyone a liar, I’d just come out and say it, perhaps I’m calling exaggeration.

To another, I’m not simply talking map completion, just overall 25% as stated by OP. If it were map completion with several characters adding it all up (unique area’s) I’d also be very surprised it’s not way past 25%.

Finally, I do get some of the complaints but had no where near the troubles the OP has laid out. I personally did not find it that hard at least in the open world, in fact I’m not sure hard is a good word to use in any way describing open world.

Yes i agree totally this games mechanics need a huge over haul, open world, dungeons, everywhere, will we get it i doubt it, enjoy what you can of GW2 and then move on is how i’m feeling lately..pretty sad how a game company can fall in my opinion..

This thread is either a joke or you really are bad at the game in every conceivable way with no clue how to use map chat, how to fight easy mobs and how to distinguish between bugs and design.

Yes, do yourself a favour and quit because you’re not having fun but I don’t experience anything you’ve said in this post save for the christmas present glitch. There is no “designed player death” as such, we normally use the word “difficulty” where you need to learn to dodge, block, interrupt and remove conditions. It’s not that hard and actually IS more fun.

Maveric.8369:

When I refer to “kill the player char”, I mean situations when player character gets damage that kill it and that can not be avoided.

This doesn’t exist.

I would like you to give a single example of a situation in which an enemy one-shots you and you cannot avoid it in any way.

Raine.1394:

MaRko.3165:

1. last but not least, who’s idea was it to force the player to ‘dodge’ into a red circle? Ever get 3-4 of them circles all around you? (try dodging out of THAT!)

Some elements of this game are indeed challenging and do require skill. Other elements are simply chickenkitten tactics.

Had to laugh. I always remember the Inquest grenadiers that you meet somewhere around level 12-14 leveling out of the asura starting area. You dodge out of a red circle into a red circle. You dodge again and in a nano second you are in another red circle. Wait a minute, dodge used to be a working mechanic. By then you are thoroughly chilled so you can’t even walk out. I wonder if they realize they are training people to just stand still and fight regardless of the flow of combat.

Dodge towards an enemy, kill it quickly, use blocks/invulnerability/blinds/heals and let endurance recharge, kill the enemies as quickly as possible. It doesn’t teach you to stand still, it teaches you to learn to play.

tigirius.9014:

I’m playing other games waiting for the day that my engineer won’t be completely useless in pve. I’m also waiting for them to fix the DR and lower loot drops issues and the broken MF so that legit farmers which they profess to accept and want as members of their playerbase are no longer punished.

You’ve been told several times in the past to learn to play your class instead of complaining about the non-existent problems with it. There are hundreds of good engi builds and plenty of people rocking with them in both pve and pvp.

Also the DR and MF complaints are also BS.

Teofa Tsavo.9863:

Props to all the superheroes who chimed in with “lrn2play nub” Inspiring, original, and oh so helpful.

If the game has to be considerably less hard for some, then they need to have two types of servers. Because anything easier in the open world than it is now, would become an equal if not larger issue with another set of players, there are probably an equal base on each side complaining, too hard… no too easy. Can you ever make a game easy enough for the person who needs it? Can you ever make a game hard enough for the person who can handle the most?

No, but going outside of GW’s2 player base, into general mmo sense, GW’s 2 is known as a very casual friendly game as it is.

LOL at thread.

Just like what Norns says “I hate weakness.” :p

Guildwars 1 and 2 are the easiest to play with and the most benevolent to beginners in gaming (and I began playing with Ultima). This is more likely a personal issue because “he has done everything at around 25% map completion across many level 80 avatars”.

Corvi.3278:

LOL at thread.

Just like what Norns says “I hate weakness.” :p

Guildwars 1 and 2 are the easiest to play with and the most benevolent to beginners in gaming (and I began playing with Ultima). This is more likely a personal issue because “he has done everything at around 25% map completion across many level 80 avatars”.

And asurans hate stupidity… whats your point? should we all have I.Q tests in the game and ban players who score too low? or should we sort of look at games as in progress in terms of design and evolving to not suck donkey nuts. Why do people often look back on games like ultima with rose colored glasses like it was the “jesus of RPG’s” lol.

At least point out the superior narratives etc in the game that offset the terrible grind, as opposed to just saying “another game was harder therefore you’re wrong”

just seems totally pointless and insulting to others intelligence.

There’s threads like these

aaaaaaand….

Then there’s threads where people say they can PvE without any armor whatsoever.

Sooo….

Must not be an issue on either side.

/thread

I’m yet to encounter any damage that couldn’t be avoided or mitigated, OP needs to learn their class.

Horrorscope.7632:

Please, who are you? And I don’t even care if you were someone.

Ah yes, attacking the person instead of the argument. Always a good decision, and a great way to establish your argument’s strength and credibility.

I didn’t attack you. I just asked you very nicely to either contribute actual points of discussion or else please stop posting, as all you’re doing right now is insulting the user in question and that’s really not helpful. Especially when he has a valid point, one that has made most of my guild quit the game already.

I just find it hard ro believe, that is all to only be 20% done with multiple 80’s. That said it’s not impossible, just very improbably, no big. If I were calling anyone a liar, I’d just come out and say it, perhaps I’m calling exaggeration.

But you weren’t, and we both know you weren’t. Which makes your post ironic now, because you’re lying about calling someone else a liar.

To another, I’m not simply talking map completion, just overall 25% as stated by OP. If it were map completion with several characters adding it all up (unique area’s) I’d also be very surprised it’s not way past 25%.

I wouldn’t be. You can level to Lvl 80 in WvW, remember? Your map completion would be far below 25% if you did that and nothing else.

And I suspect he meant “25%” in relation to how much of the overall content he’s explored, not in terms of map completion. Which is likely true for most of the game’s players, unless you have created enough characters to explore almost every permutation of the personal story. And you’d need to have actively gone out of your way to explore every dungeon area, and scoured every inch of WvW and PvE so as to complete every single event.

As I said, I’m just past the 800 hour mark now and I still run into things I didn’t even know existed. It’s rather easy to miss things when the events are all dynamic.

Finally, I do get some of the complaints but had no where near the troubles the OP has laid out. I personally did not find it that hard at least in the open world, in fact I’m not sure hard is a good word to use in any way describing open world.

I wouldn’t call it difficulty either, because as I previously established, it’s “fake difficulty”. OHKO mechanics are not, and never will be, an example of true difficulty in a video game. And they are a mechanic that GW2 needs to get rid of, in favor of actual challenges and truly interesting content. Fractals does a decent job of this (with the exception of the Jade Maw) and is an example of how to do these sorts of things correctly.

There is nothing in this game that kills you inevitably.
You just haven’t learned the game yet.
Admittedly the game is very reflex-based so if you’re a slow type you’ll suffer spiking.
But spiking can be easily and efficiently countered by any class.

Sorry but to many people fights that don’t put you at high risk are the opposite of fun.
To many people, preventing a spike is the pinnacle of fun.
Spiking was fundamental of GW1 too even though there were less ways to counter it.

I’d hate if GW2 was yet another MMOs where time to kill is long to cater to baddies, this game is very skill based and the weak either succombs or learns.

Red Falcon.8257:

There is nothing in this game that kills you inevitably.

Except the Jade Maw, whose only attack will instantly down you if you’re not holding a crystal or are really good at dodging him. And if you get the bad luck of being targeted again while downed (saw it happen to a PUG-mate), you’re killed instantly with no opportunity to dodge.

Oh, and Agony, if you’re lacking in AR at Lvl 20 Fractals or so. At that point, Agony deals 25% per tick and there’s generally about 4 ticks of infliction….that’s a delayed down, not an instant one, but it’s just about inevitable shy of having a dodge at the exact right time.

And then there’s a great number of bosses in events and dungeons with attacks that are either OHKOs or at least very high hitting, and these attacks are also generally very difficult to dodge.

Seems to me like there’s a few too many of these things in the game. And to be frank, anything that can potentially kill you in just one blow isn’t a smart thing to have in this game. Especially if it relies on the dodge mechanic, which is limited. I understand people’s desire to have the game based around “skill”, but OHKOs do not encourage players to learn the adequate “skill”, they encourage players to go play other games. And while some folks in here don’t see a problem with that, if a game is off-putting to new customers when it’s still this young, it gets a bit of a “reputation” and it will never grow into the size-able, meaningful step forward in MMO design that it was supposed to be.

I would much rather see more creative methods of difficulty employed by the development team. OHKOs are lazy, and they’re better than that.

TC, no offense, but it sounds like there’s a few parts of the gameplay you might not have mastered. Have you learned to time your dodges? It takes a while, but once you get used to it quite a few of the ‘one shot’ attacks become super easy to dodge. Especially since if you’re not lagging, the enemies that do them pretty much tell you in advance from their stance and an energy charging animation.

Teofa Tsavo.9863:

Props to all the superheroes who chimed in with “lrn2play nub” Inspiring, original, and oh so helpful.

Superstar, This Bear Mead is for you.
For all the champs you facerolled in level 10 white armor.
For all the dungeons you soloed while watching YouTube vids of yourself.
For every forum post in every game you ever played that stated “this is all ez mode”
For every time you stated.. “I wish pve was a lot harder”
And mostly, for your faith that no game, ever, was broken, in any way.

You are an inspiration to us all.

So you agree with the op that some parts of the game are “designed to be certain death to players” then? If so, then you need a tutorial.

You didn’t provide anything to the discussion did you? The very thing you are chastising people for.

Hellkaiser.6025:

And asurans hate stupidity… whats your point? should we all have I.Q tests in the game and ban players who score too low?

No, people who are bad at the game should stop making excuses and saying that the game is designed to be impossible. Especially when their reasoning behind it is also bogus. Though the Op did mention ONE thing in there that was merely a glitch.

emikochan.8504:

I’m yet to encounter any damage that couldn’t be avoided or mitigated.

Precisely and according to the OP, deaths are mostly impossible to avoid. A statement so blatantly not true.

Red Falcon.8257:

Admittedly the game is very reflex-based so if you’re a slow type you’ll suffer spiking.
But spiking can be easily and efficiently countered by any class.

What I’ve been thinking. Many situations might seem impossible for some until they swap out some utilities, change weapons or master avoiding hits. I used to really suffer from Dredge numbers in some zones but with experience of playing in those areas solo, I’ve found solutions on every character. I would say that those areas are a fair bit difficult for a lot of people but I’d never say they were designed to cause 100% player death like the OP in this thread.

Ok, seriously, I have yet to find a level appropriate mob, 1v1, that is a problem, including Veterans. The dodge, heal, and other mechanics are fine. Same with normal mobs in groups, less with some classes, more with my guard, but fine.

The issue is when your dodge rolls you into the respawn that wasn’t there seconds ago. Or when your skills are all on cooldown and the crap you cleared on the way to the Skillpoint vet joins in again on respawn. Respawn timers and adds become a problem when the sole mechanic to make a boss “hard” is more hp.

It’s when the ’solo" storyline balanced for you and 5 AI helpers goes south because they will NOT dodge out of anything, leaving you solo to face an encounter not designed for it. ( If the OP had just come out of the Vigil mission with the Skritt and waves of destroyer crabs, I can totally see him claiming the mission was designed to kill him, as his AI help dies in the first wave, leaving him to solo all of the subsequent waves.)

It’s when mobs are in tight, enclosed confines and leash and reset if pulled one step out of them.

There are many areas, storyline missions, and skill points that need spawn timers and proximity mobs tweaked. AI help in “solo” storylines need tweaks. There are vet mobs, underwater especially, that need their reset and invul behavior looked at.

There is a problem when common advice to “solo” solo missions is to overlevel them or just zerg.

An experienced player will find workarounds, modify playstyle, adapt to the issues. That does not mean they are not “issues”.

And no matter how hard, how easy, how complex or how simple, in every game, every mmo, there are those whose response to anything or everything is “learn to play”.

Furthermore, if the Noob does indeed “learn to play” and does things he couldnt before, if he mentions that he will be given the “lol I facerolled that with no armor and a rock, noob, LEARN TO PLAY”

Leetism is never pretty.

And Mirta, do you need a “tutorial” in comprehension? My post was aimed at the unhelpful and derogatory “learn to play” comments that are and have been standard tripe on MMO boards since the inception of them.

“Leetism is never pretty”

Nothing “leet” about telling someone to stop making the excuse that the game is designed to be “impossible” though.

Elitists are the type to tell you that dying at all makes you a noob, it’s the regular players that tell those that don’t know what they’re doing that they’re doing it wrong when they make the claim that there’s too much “impossible” in the game.

If the guy had said “this game is too hard for me and here is why” he’d likely get some friendly tips (in fact he did here) but when someone points out that the game is NOT “impossible” and is likely in fact due to a lack of combat skill (which it is), then the accusation of “elitist” gets thrown when it isn’t deserved.

Tl;dr version: Too many people are getting -worked up- and shouting either about “leetism” or about the game being “designed to kill you”.

Teofa Tsavo.9863:

And Mirta, do you need a “tutorial” in comprehension? My post was aimed at the unhelpful and derogatory “learn to play” comments that are and have been standard tripe on MMO boards since the inception of them.

Not at all, I think you need a tutorial in etiquette actually as your original post did nothing to add to the thread and was only provocative. Many people that stated “the game isn’t impossible, learn to play” said so earnestly with the meaning that the game is not designed to kill you.

Reading comprehension is not something I need any classes in, I fear however that you may be lacking in this department as you couldn’t distinguish between a rebuttal to an incorrect or incorrectly worded complaint and an elitist ego-trip.

Sorry to see you go…

I have only three characters leveled to Lv80 and have done 100% Map Completion. PvE in this game is so darn easy.

I mean you have a chance to survive a death? (i.e. downed state). So easy…
No experience loss or item lost on death? So easy…
Everyone else can revive a dead or downed player? So easy…
Dungeons that allows a checkpoint retry instead of full reset? So easy…
Group Event bosses that can be soloed? So easy….
Dynamic Events that can be completed solo? So easy…
Quests that doesnt require running/turning in? So easy…
Going to instance without “entrance items/pre req”? So easy…
Top tier armor achievable by almost everyone except the laziest? So easy…
You have chance to reskill after choosing your traits? So easy…

And more and more and more easy stuffs…like so many WP to avoid mobs. Using items to increase damage or durability.

I play Thief, Mesmer, and Necromancer. Orr is a playground to me. I run Fractals of the Mist in Mid-Tier Lvl in Magic Find gear. I can do Arah, CoF, etc. and survive to tell the tales….

I can do those stuff, because this game has a lot of easy things to do. Maybe not “smooth” because of some annoying bugs, but almost everything can be done solo, or just by 5 people….

say goodbye to fun?

That’s really open to personal views of fun.

Fun to me in a multiplayer game is playing with other people. Admittedly though I solo’d all the way to 80 for the most part on 4 characters – mostly because it was easy for me. There were areas, events, tasks, skill challenges, etc. that were hard at first. If I die, I’d return and pay more attention instead of rushing in. or maybe I’d go elsewhere and come back when I gained a level or five. Sometimes I’d decide to wait ’til I was a level which could equip some better gear.

Fun to me is also finding content that’s a challenge to overcome. I’ve “been there, done that” (world completion title), so I’ve obviously overcome most things.

Fun is also helping others. If someone on a map is asking for help and I’m not bogged down, I’ll gladly help them. If they ask for advice I’ll give it. That same goes for my guild.

The game isn’t as interesting and new to me any more. But even after getting four level 80s, getting them all in exotics/ascended (some with multiple armor sets), and working towards a legendary, I’m still having fun.

So my suggestion to you and anyone else not having fun: If you don’t enjoy a game, you’re not required to play it. Readjust your point of view on the game, your playstyle, whatever – and retry the game. Alternately you could take a break from it and come back in a week or month or two. Another option is to uninstall and never look back.

Whatever you decide, good luck.

DeathMetal.8264:

Sorry to see you go…

I have only three characters leveled to Lv80 and have done 100% Map Completion. PvE in this game is so darn easy.

I mean you have a chance to survive a death? (i.e. downed state). So easy…
No experience loss or item lost on death? So easy…
Everyone else can revive a dead or downed player? So easy…
Dungeons that allows a checkpoint retry instead of full reset? So easy…
Group Event bosses that can be soloed? So easy….
Dynamic Events that can be completed solo? So easy…
Quests that doesnt require running/turning in? So easy…
Going to instance without “entrance items/pre req”? So easy…
Top tier armor achievable by almost everyone except the laziest? So easy…
You have chance to reskill after choosing your traits? So easy…

And more and more and more easy stuffs…like so many WP to avoid mobs. Using items to increase damage or durability.

I play Thief, Mesmer, and Necromancer. Orr is a playground to me. I run Fractals of the Mist in Mid-Tier Lvl in Magic Find gear. I can do Arah, CoF, etc. and survive to tell the tales….

I can do those stuff, because this game has a lot of easy things to do. Maybe not “smooth” because of some annoying bugs, but almost everything can be done solo, or just by 5 people….

I’ve been fine with most of what people have been saying in this thread (although I do think the game needs a lot of tweaks), but group events are soloable? Maybe some of them if you are careful, or are the right class, but most of them aren’t. The giant destroyer troll in timberline falls, you can range solo him, or you can run in circles and kill him eventually, but head on no way. Group events with champions? Maybe you an solo with range, otherwise no. If group events are so easy for you then please share your knowledge.