Guild Wars 2

For those who remember GW2 on its first month, people would farm for hours, doing dungeons or cursed shore events. If a party of 6 ended up with the same loot at the end of the day, where everyone was doing the exact same thing.

Even if you where lucky and get an exotic, they where just 5-10 rare worth, and in the worst case scenario you get a precursor that used to be 50-60 gold (after 2000 hours i still haven´t seen 1 drop for me). But you could farm enough to buy yourself a precursor.

Dungeons gave people with the same rewards, there was no fractal BS roll on who get ascended ring/ ascended weap/fractal skin.

I used to think this made the game great, for the first time i was able to see that no lucky guy could have 1 single drop on a random day that worth more than the accounts of half the population of this game.

Well i don´t like gambling in games, if i had to choose between farming a dungeon 10 times to get my gear done, or get a 1/10 chance reward everytime i beat it, i know which one i would pick.

Now before people complain about this happening only on isolated cases i would give some examples:

- fractal rings
-fractal skins
-ascended weapons
-tequatl rewards
-champion rewards (lvl 10 people killing champs on queensdale and getting a genesis roflmao)
-autherized weapon skins
-SAB auction-able skins

Bleh when i was VERY lucky on a dungeon best i got was a Charged Lodestone over anyone else in my party.

I hate RNG as well, but I have to say, I don’t mind so much the fractal/ascended rings mechanic right now. I got lucky a number of times with them, I stored some and heyy, eventually when refining my alts build i can actually use some of those rings. Otherwise that pile of pristine relics would do just the trick.

Fractal weapons are a different matter. You have to go through ALL the stuff to see if u get a chance for it or not. I got 2 so far after countless running, but neither are the ones I really want. I got a focus, which a good friend of mine wanted but since these are account bound, i cant give it to him. Similiarly 2 guildies that ran with me got my one true fractal holy grail, the Fractal Rifle, and NEITHER of them really use rifles. They would have given it to me in a heart beat, if they could… but of course, account bound.This for me is the 2nd most annoying RNG in the game, and its quite close to the 1st.

Top spot for annoying RNG for me, by principle, were those karka/sclerite skins and those jade dragon skins. Not only were they temporary, but even their gemstore method of acquisition is RNG. on the gemstore. where real money could be involved.

generalraccoon.3857:

I hate RNG as well, but I have to say, I don’t mind so much the fractal/ascended rings mechanic right now. I got lucky a number of times with them, I stored some and heyy, eventually when refining my alts build i can actually use some of those rings. Otherwise that pile of pristine relics would do just the trick.

Fractal weapons are a different matter. You have to go through ALL the stuff to see if u get a chance for it or not. I got 2 so far after countless running, but neither are the ones I really want. I got a focus, which a good friend of mine wanted but since these are account bound, i cant give it to him. Similiarly 2 guildies that ran with me got my one true fractal holy grail, the Fractal Rifle, and NEITHER of them really use rifles. They would have given it to me in a heart beat, if they could… but of course, account bound.This for me is the 2nd most annoying RNG in the game, and its quite close to the 1st.

Top spot for annoying RNG for me, by principle, were those karka/sclerite skins and those jade dragon skins. Not only were they temporary, but even their gemstore method of acquisition is RNG. on the gemstore. where real money could be involved.

See this game really is like Guild Wars 1.

Voltaic spear, frog scepter, celestial compass, mini yakkington, mini polarbear, zodiac weapons, hell even just ecto and lockpick drops. Black and white dyes.

People who play Guild Wars 1 say there’s nothing in Guild Wars 2 like Guild Wars 1. I submit that they’re wrong. lol

1400+ hours playing. Best drop so far was a 1h sword 5g worth skin.

Know this guy from my guild, less than 300 hours played, around 750 AP… got a precursor, instant 650g injection to his wallet for a guy that barely touched the “end” game.

And another one that 7 months ago already had 4 precursors dropped to him in different scenarios… (switched guild so I don’t know if his luck goes on)

But is all fair! it’s not like we bought the same game, did the same things or anything

Mesket.5728:

1400+ hours playing. Best drop so far was a 1h sword 5g worth skin.

Know this guy from my guild, less than 300 hours played, around 750 AP… got a precursor, instant 650g injection to his wallet for a guy that barely touched the “end” game.

And another one that 7 months ago already had 4 precursors dropped to him in different scenarios… (switched guild so I don’t know if his luck goes on)

But is all fair! it’s not like we bought the same game, did the same things or anything

Fair is relative. It is fair some people live in areas with terrible internet and so they can’t compete in skilled content? Is it fair that some people can’t afford better systems and so they lag and can’t get rewards? Is it fair that some people were born into the video game generation and find all content too easy where people who came to it later are struggling to figure out how to strafe?

RNG equalizes things and makes them fair from that perspective. In theory, everyone has the same chances. It doesn’t mean everyone will get the same drops.

Vayne.8563:

Fair is relative. It is fair some people live in areas with terrible internet and so they can’t compete in skilled content?

Not related to the design of the game itself so not relevant in relation to RNG.

Vayne.8563:

Is it fair that some people can’t afford better systems and so they lag and can’t get rewards?

Not related to the design of the game itself so not relevant in relation to RNG.

Vayne.8563:

Is it fair that some people were born into the video game generation and find all content too easy where people who came to it later are struggling to figure out how to strafe?

Not related to the design of the game itself so not relevant in relation to RNG.

Just my opinion.

Vayne.8563:

Mesket.5728:

1400+ hours playing. Best drop so far was a 1h sword 5g worth skin.

Know this guy from my guild, less than 300 hours played, around 750 AP… got a precursor, instant 650g injection to his wallet for a guy that barely touched the “end” game.

And another one that 7 months ago already had 4 precursors dropped to him in different scenarios… (switched guild so I don’t know if his luck goes on)

But is all fair! it’s not like we bought the same game, did the same things or anything

Fair is relative. It is fair some people live in areas with terrible internet and so they can’t compete in skilled content? Is it fair that some people can’t afford better systems and so they lag and can’t get rewards? Is it fair that some people were born into the video game generation and find all content too easy where people who came to it later are struggling to figure out how to strafe?

RNG equalizes things and makes them fair from that perspective. In theory, everyone has the same chances. It doesn’t mean everyone will get the same drops.

All the things you mentioned are on our side. I have to deal with a poor internet connection because I live 16.000 km away from the servers and my average ping is around 500-800. Yes, that is near 1 second delay from pushing to a button to actually making it happen but it is something I can understand and simply deal with it; it is not up to them to balance all internet connections or personal rigs…

RNG is here because they didn’t “finish” the game. Instead of designing a way to get the precursor (or some other rare mats) they just placed it in the world with a lottery chance of getting it. This creates unbalances beyond repair and the ball is entirely on their side.

Ascended ring RNG was bad….infact was fixed.

Fotm skins is aetethic RNG.
AKA horizontal progression….something that Always existed.

Once was for precursor and rare skins…many exotic skins you could drop, went for 20+ golds.

Also some armorskin were really expensive….

Not to mention Minis and stuff.
SKIN RNG is fine for me…..TIER RNG is not.

Vayne.8563:

generalraccoon.3857:

I hate RNG as well, but I have to say, I don’t mind so much the fractal/ascended rings mechanic right now. I got lucky a number of times with them, I stored some and heyy, eventually when refining my alts build i can actually use some of those rings. Otherwise that pile of pristine relics would do just the trick.

Fractal weapons are a different matter. You have to go through ALL the stuff to see if u get a chance for it or not. I got 2 so far after countless running, but neither are the ones I really want. I got a focus, which a good friend of mine wanted but since these are account bound, i cant give it to him. Similiarly 2 guildies that ran with me got my one true fractal holy grail, the Fractal Rifle, and NEITHER of them really use rifles. They would have given it to me in a heart beat, if they could… but of course, account bound.This for me is the 2nd most annoying RNG in the game, and its quite close to the 1st.

Top spot for annoying RNG for me, by principle, were those karka/sclerite skins and those jade dragon skins. Not only were they temporary, but even their gemstore method of acquisition is RNG. on the gemstore. where real money could be involved.

See this game really is like Guild Wars 1.

Voltaic spear, frog scepter, celestial compass, mini yakkington, mini polarbear, zodiac weapons, hell even just ecto and lockpick drops. Black and white dyes.

People who play Guild Wars 1 say there’s nothing in Guild Wars 2 like Guild Wars 1. I submit that they’re wrong. lol

lol, wasnt really there for GW1. Wish I had but oh well… I guess things were bad back then too huh?

I swear nostalgia affects people so badly if they’re weak enough. Oh well, I know that feeling :/

Vayne.8563:

Well, except that if you wanted a Voltaic spear, you can go to the Slaver’s Exile dungeon and you know it will drop there for sure. I bought my 1st one, and got 4 more from drops.

The frog scepter was a drop from the Bogroot Growths, so you only need to do this specific dungeon.

Celestial compass, dropped in the underworld.

Mini Yakkington from the Gift of the Traveler.

Mini Polar Bear, ok, this one was rare, only during Wintersday, but at least you know where to get it.

Zodiac weapons, The Deep and Urgoz’s Warren.

Ectoplasms, Underworld and Tomb of the Primeval Kings. And they were more common than all the T6 materials together.

Black and White dyes, in Pre-Searing Ascalon.

Now tell me, if I want a Dusk, where do I go to get it? If I want a fractal skin, where does it drop (in fractals yeah, a lot… lol)? Entropy? Bonetti’s? What if I just want T6 blood, where does it drop?

There is only 1 thing that I wanted and could never put my hands on in GW1… the mini ghostly hero, and only because my pvp guild disbanded before it was introduced and I didn’t want to spend platinum on it. However the list of things I have given up in GW2 is only increasing…

LordByron.8369:

Ascended ring RNG was bad….infact was fixed.

Fotm skins is aetethic RNG.
AKA horizontal progression….something that Always existed.

Once was for precursor and rare skins…many exotic skins you could drop, went for 20+ golds.

Also some armorskin were really expensive….

Not to mention Minis and stuff.
SKIN RNG is fine for me…..TIER RNG is not.

which way of RNG is acceptable depends on opinion, the fact is that when GW2 came out RNG was not impactfull, anything you wanted you could farm your way to it.

The rewards from accomplishing something where set and given, 1000 people went to a dungeon, all of them get tokens, 5% maybe an exotic, 20% get a 1-3 extra rares.

now you see 1000 people kill a boss, 99% get garbage and 1% get a genesis or some bs that inject them unfair amount of gold.

If you think about it every new content that comes have a even sicker amount of RNG, since autherized weapon going trough SAB and now Tequatl.

Reesha.7901:

Vayne.8563:

Fair is relative. It is fair some people live in areas with terrible internet and so they can’t compete in skilled content?

Not related to the design of the game itself so not relevant in relation to RNG.

Vayne.8563:

Is it fair that some people can’t afford better systems and so they lag and can’t get rewards?

Not related to the design of the game itself so not relevant in relation to RNG.

Vayne.8563:

Is it fair that some people were born into the video game generation and find all content too easy where people who came to it later are struggling to figure out how to strafe?

Not related to the design of the game itself so not relevant in relation to RNG.

Just my opinion.

So what you’re saying is, a game designer shouldn’t take into account the machines are playing on, their internet connection, their latency due to location? That would probably be the worst designer in history.

The simplest example is that if a game designer makes the best game in the world but no one’s machine is good enough to run it, it won’t sell. If they make the game less “good” but better for people who have cheaper older machines they’d sell more. That’s an outside factor that affects game design.

Every game manufacturer will take things from inside the game and outside of the game into account when creating games, including how much free time people have to accomplish things in the game…which is also not in the game.

I can’t even imagine how you’d think these real life issues aren’t relevant to game design (or the design of any program for that matter).

Apolyon.6937:

Vayne.8563:

Well, except that if you wanted a Voltaic spear, you can go to the Slaver’s Exile dungeon and you know it will drop there for sure. I bought my 1st one, and got 4 more from drops.

The frog scepter was a drop from the Bogroot Growths, so you only need to do this specific dungeon.

Celestial compass, dropped in the underworld.

Mini Yakkington from the Gift of the Traveler.

Mini Polar Bear, ok, this one was rare, only during Wintersday, but at least you know where to get it.

Zodiac weapons, The Deep and Urgoz’s Warren.

Ectoplasms, Underworld and Tomb of the Primeval Kings. And they were more common than all the T6 materials together.

Black and White dyes, in Pre-Searing Ascalon.

Now tell me, if I want a Dusk, where do I go to get it? If I want a fractal skin, where does it drop (in fractals yeah, a lot… lol)? Entropy? Bonetti’s? What if I just want T6 blood, where does it drop?

There is only 1 thing that I wanted and could never put my hands on in GW1… the mini ghostly hero, and only because my pvp guild disbanded before it was introduced and I didn’t want to spend platinum on it. However the list of things I have given up in GW2 is only increasing…

I ran Bogroot Growths 200 times and never got a Frog Scepter, and yes, I’m not exaagerating.

Vayne.8563:

I can’t even imagine how you’d think these real life issues aren’t relevant to game design (or the design of any program for that matter).

In that case I can’t really help you.
Every game is going to have a minimum requirement.

EDIT: Because English > me.

Reesha.7901:

Vayne.8563:

I can’t even imagine how you’d think these real life issues aren’t relevant to game design (or the design of any program for that matter).

In that case I can’t really help you.
Every game is going to have a minimum requirement.

EDIT: Because English > me.

if you make a game, make sure you have extremely low graphics and effect option feature, even people with super PCs and internet sometime just feel that watching the sparks, rainbows and unicorns along with all shiny colors are not worth having 10 FPS.

This isn´t that hard, they now have models with crapy graphics to prevent culling, they would need to rework all skill effects and make versions with less animations.

MMOs in general are ALL about RNG.

Examples:

GW1 – named items such as weapons, birthday minis (7 years, 7 whites for me,) dye, and yes, even ectos. Admittedly, the RNG factor was relatively balanced, and you could probably get one of what you’re after eventually, but there were those who thought the drop rate was definitely sub par.

Aion – Crafting, armor, items, you name it. This is one of the most RNG heavy games I have ever played. Even after it went “free to play” I only went back once or twice to stay incontact with some friends.

EQ – It’s been a long time, but I remember those who got absolutely epic drops, while I usually got left nasal inhalers or some such junk.

These are just a few examples. GW2 has bad RNG tables, but in truth, no worse than a lot of other games. The big difference here is the sense of entitlement that I see a lot of people expressing in the forums.

Maybe if people would just play instead of trying to make it a business or a job, people would have fewer issues with RNG.

Oh, and @ the OP: In the beginning, nobody noticed the RNG, which was there because we didn’t have a bloc who did nothing but farm as we do today. The more someone needs an item, the more we seem to care about RNG.

Apolyon.6937:

Well, except that if you wanted a Voltaic spear, you can go to the Slaver’s Exile dungeon and you know it will drop there for sure. I bought my 1st one, and got 4 more from drops.

The frog scepter was a drop from the Bogroot Growths, so you only need to do this specific dungeon.

Celestial compass, dropped in the underworld.

Mini Yakkington from the Gift of the Traveler.

Mini Polar Bear, ok, this one was rare, only during Wintersday, but at least you know where to get it.

Zodiac weapons, The Deep and Urgoz’s Warren.

Ectoplasms, Underworld and Tomb of the Primeval Kings. And they were more common than all the T6 materials together.

Black and White dyes, in Pre-Searing Ascalon.

Now tell me, if I want a Dusk, where do I go to get it? If I want a fractal skin, where does it drop (in fractals yeah, a lot… lol)? Entropy? Bonetti’s? What if I just want T6 blood, where does it drop?

There is only 1 thing that I wanted and could never put my hands on in GW1… the mini ghostly hero, and only because my pvp guild disbanded before it was introduced and I didn’t want to spend platinum on it. However the list of things I have given up in GW2 is only increasing…

You want a chance at a Dusk, you MF GSs.

If you want a chance at fractal weapons, you play fractals.

If you want a chance at Entropy, you farm champs that drop Gilded Coffers (Risen or Destroyers)

If you want a chance at Bonetti’s, you farm bandit/pirate champs that drop Embroidered Purses.

I never found a Voltaic Spear in my many runs of Slaver’s Exile, so I bought one. (Lets not forget the difference between an r9 and a r12 spear, and since there was no transmutation system, you were stuck with the stat…)

I could never get my hands on things like the mini Panda or mini Candycorn in GW1. I never got the Tengu weapons, because I refused to pay more for DLC.

The reward structure in GW1 and GW2 is really, really similar in terms of loot. Some RNG, some guaranteed through currency, some purchased through players, and some IMPOSSIBLE to obtain. It really wierds me out when people try to paint them as vastly different. They’re not.

Reesha.7901:

Vayne.8563:

I can’t even imagine how you’d think these real life issues aren’t relevant to game design (or the design of any program for that matter).

In that case I can’t really help you.
Every game is going to have a minimum requirement.

EDIT: Because English > me.

And you don’t think devs work to keep the requirements as friendly as possible for as many people as possible. People often say games like WoW are popular because they’re good games. Games like WoW are popular because you can play them on a toaster. Your machine can be old enough to vote (intentional exaageration) and still play that game.

Guild Wars 2 was designed to be played on older machines too, and in fact, Anet went out of their way to design the game that way.

It’s a good thing the devs have more regard for the public than some of the players.

I don’t think your arguments are valid in relation to RNG which is what this topic was suposed to be a about?

Vayne.8563:

And you don’t think devs work to keep the requirements as friendly as possible for as many people as possible.

I never said that. I am saying that requirements imo is a seperate issue and I don’t think it is relevant in a discussion about RNG.

Nice attempt on twisting my words though.

Vayne.8563:

It’s a good thing the devs have more regard for the public than some of the players.

Wow – Just wow…. I like how you translate my post into a lot of something I never said.
Not thinking that game performance and a RNG game design are connected makes me a horrible person. It really really does.

Reesha.7901:

I don’t think your arguments are valid in relation to RNG which is what this topic was suposed to be a about?

Vayne.8563:

And you don’t think devs work to keep the requirements as friendly as possible for as many people as possible.

I never said that. I am saying that requirements imo is a seperate issue and I don’t think it is relevant in a discussion about RNG.

Nice attempt on twisting my words though.

Well, I don’t know. It’s relevant to sales.

If internet problems cause people to be unable to compete and get rewards…a company may very well lose let’s say, most of Australian sales. I’m sure there are some people in Australia who enjoy Guild Wars 2 (me for example) but the latency sometimes makes dodging dicey and sometimes makes it impossible to play certain content…or at least very challenging. If all rewards were based off of skill and not RNG, I couldn’t play this game. Nor could much of Australia. As it is there are complaints about us not being able to do things because of that lag.

Now, magnify that by people who don’t have great connections even in the US (like one of my guildies in Montana) and people in other areas who might not have the best connection and suddenly, it becomes very important for the manufacturer to take that into account.

So you have stuff like the Liadri mini for those who really want that challenge (and who’s connections can handle it) and you have RNG rewards for people who, for various reasons can’t. Best of both worlds.

Game developers are selling a product. The more people that can buy and use your product, the more money you make. I’m pretty sure Anet isn’t listed as a not for profit company.

Look. I am not going to turn this into a Vayne vs Reesha discussion.
So lets just end it here.
I do not think RNG is related to that at all.
You clearly do.
Lets end it as we are not going to agree anyway and only A-net really knows.

Heh, Moderator got all QQ about my post on a similar subject thread, yet he doesn’t come in here.

I even provided some helpful ideas on how to help the situation, he still QQ’d the thread.

generalraccoon.3857:

Vayne.8563:

generalraccoon.3857:

I hate RNG as well, but I have to say, I don’t mind so much the fractal/ascended rings mechanic right now. I got lucky a number of times with them, I stored some and heyy, eventually when refining my alts build i can actually use some of those rings. Otherwise that pile of pristine relics would do just the trick.

Fractal weapons are a different matter. You have to go through ALL the stuff to see if u get a chance for it or not. I got 2 so far after countless running, but neither are the ones I really want. I got a focus, which a good friend of mine wanted but since these are account bound, i cant give it to him. Similiarly 2 guildies that ran with me got my one true fractal holy grail, the Fractal Rifle, and NEITHER of them really use rifles. They would have given it to me in a heart beat, if they could… but of course, account bound.This for me is the 2nd most annoying RNG in the game, and its quite close to the 1st.

Top spot for annoying RNG for me, by principle, were those karka/sclerite skins and those jade dragon skins. Not only were they temporary, but even their gemstore method of acquisition is RNG. on the gemstore. where real money could be involved.

See this game really is like Guild Wars 1.

Voltaic spear, frog scepter, celestial compass, mini yakkington, mini polarbear, zodiac weapons, hell even just ecto and lockpick drops. Black and white dyes.

People who play Guild Wars 1 say there’s nothing in Guild Wars 2 like Guild Wars 1. I submit that they’re wrong. lol

lol, wasnt really there for GW1. Wish I had but oh well… I guess things were bad back then too huh?

Yes, it was horrible.

You could acquire BiS gear for PENNIES if not for FREE! The horror! The horror…

Pariah.8506:

Yes, it was horrible.

You could acquire BiS gear for PENNIES if not for FREE! The horror! The horror…

Then had to grind your face off for minor improvements to specific skills.

Good times.

Benkei.6293:

For those who remember GW2 on its first month, people would farm for hours, doing dungeons or cursed shore events. If a party of 6 ended up with the same loot at the end of the day, where everyone was doing the exact same thing.

Even if you where lucky and get an exotic, they where just 5-10 rare worth, and in the worst case scenario you get a precursor that used to be 50-60 gold (after 2000 hours i still haven´t seen 1 drop for me). But you could farm enough to buy yourself a precursor.

Dungeons gave people with the same rewards, there was no fractal BS roll on who get ascended ring/ ascended weap/fractal skin.

I used to think this made the game great, for the first time i was able to see that no lucky guy could have 1 single drop on a random day that worth more than the accounts of half the population of this game.

Well i don´t like gambling in games, if i had to choose between farming a dungeon 10 times to get my gear done, or get a 1/10 chance reward everytime i beat it, i know which one i would pick.

Now before people complain about this happening only on isolated cases i would give some examples:

- fractal rings
-fractal skins
-ascended weapons
-tequatl rewards
-champion rewards (lvl 10 people killing champs on queensdale and getting a genesis roflmao)
-autherized weapon skins
-SAB auction-able skins

Bleh when i was VERY lucky on a dungeon best i got was a Charged Lodestone over anyone else in my party.

People have been complaining about RNG in this game since 8/25/12. Nostalgia seems to have clouded your mind.

yea i don´t mind RNG, i have all the items i could posibly want.

The issue here in my opinion is that the upcoming patches are bringing higher and higher stakes gambling. to the point i wouldnt be surprised if a loto type of item sudenly came to the cashop, with the chances of 1/10000, awarding the lucky guy with a 1000 gold+ woth item.

This is just a few steps ahead from what they are doing. But yea lets not complain about it, anyways when the game get to that point ill quit and probably head to a casino, because when gambling in an online game even when you win you lose.

Benkei.6293:

yea i don´t mind RNG, i have all the items i could posibly want.

The issue here in my opinion is that the upcoming patches are bringing higher and higher stakes gambling. to the point i wouldnt be surprised if a loto type of item sudenly came to the cashop, with the chances of 1/10000, awarding the lucky guy with a 1000 gold+ woth item.

This is just a few steps ahead from what they are doing. But yea lets not complain about it, anyways when the game get to that point ill quit and probably head to a casino, because when gambling in an online game even when you win you lose.

Lotto type boxes, they’ve been with us since day one. They’re called Black Lion Chests.

The game is too alike to world of warcraft now..
I hate it..
Everytime I kill a boss all I get is blues which sell for 80c while friends always get exotics and ascendeds.