"Gall-uhm" and "Wivv-urn"
I agree with the above… hazaa!
Did you know that Wyvern is also correctly spelled as Wivern? On the topic of golems and gollums though, I can’t say which is truly correct. Maybe ask Tolkien?
Those armadillos would be a lot cooler if they looked more like real armadillos. mmm armadillos
-BnooMaGoo.5690
-BnooMaGoo.5690
Did you know that Wyvern is also correctly spelled as Wivern? On the topic of golems and gollums though, I can’t say which is truly correct. Maybe ask Tolkien?
Golems originate in Jewish folklore, not Tolkien. :p
- Merriam-Webster offers 3 different pronunciations for Golem.
- the same site has two pronunciations for wyvern
tl;dr be careful when stating that there is only one way to pronounce the name of a mythological creature. (Plus: that’s just for English.)
John Smith: “you should kill monsters, because killing monsters is awesome.”
Poe-tay-toe/Poe-tah-toe. There are multiple pronunciations for many words. Oi-ster/Err-ster. Let’s call the whole thing off!
Leader of The Guernsey Milking Coalition [MiLk] Sanctum of Rall
- Merriam-Webster offers 3 different pronunciations for Golem.
- the same site has two pronunciations for wyvern
tl;dr be careful when stating that there is only one way to pronounce the name of a mythological creature. (Plus: that’s just for English.)
Those aren’t different pronunciations though, if you refer to the pronunciation key it’s just different ways to represent how it’s pronounced.
Just look up the tomato entry to see how they explain different pronunciations.
(edited by Pandaman.4758)
It’s pronounced ‘gall-uhm’ and ‘wiv-urn’ now because that is how it is pronounced by people now.
And while I am at it:
- decimate does not mean ‘to destroy to one tenth’ (not anymore)
- there is nothing incorrect with split infinitives
- you can use ‘literally’ as an intensive rather than as precisely ‘literally’
- dialects like African American Vernacular English (so-called ‘ebonics’) are not a sign of inferior education but rather a fully capable language system in and of itself
- there is nothing special about the oxford comma – it’s a stylistic choice and nothing more.
Language is very different than the rules you learned in English class.
I don’t mind Wyvern being pronounced differently. I personally prefer WHY-vern as I think it sounds more intimidating and interesting, but either way works for me.
Golem, though… yah. I don’t like when people use Gahl-um. Like, before LoTR came out I basically only heard it pronounced Goh-lem, so I can only assume the sudden influx of people pronouncing it the other way is due to that. But it doesn’t even make sense to pronounce it that way because of LoTR since its a characters name rather than referring to a magical sentient construct, and not even spelled the same way either.
It’s pronounced ‘gall-uhm’ and ‘wiv-urn’ now because that is how it is pronounced by people now.
Who are these people you speak of, by the way? Prior to this thread I didn’t know anyone was pronouncing “o” as “a” and “y” and “i”, so is it really that widespread to warrant defending, much less consider it as an evolution of the language?
On that note, should we accept “gaurd” is an acceptable variation of “guard” because people have trouble with that as well?
Spinning off from the other thread, this topic is about the consistently incorrect in-game pronunciation of these two terms. They are supposed to be “goh-lem” and “why-vern”, respectively.
Discuss.
why-vern? Eww, no.
Although I am well aware that there are different ways to pronounce it, I still cringe every time I hear any npc say “wih-vurrrn.” It sounds so silly…
The golem pronunciation doesn’t bother me at all though, as I’m used to either one… but that’s just me.
- Merriam-Webster offers 3 different pronunciations for Golem.
- the same site has two pronunciations for wyvern
tl;dr be careful when stating that there is only one way to pronounce the name of a mythological creature. (Plus: that’s just for English.)
Those aren’t different pronunciations though, if you refer to the pronunciation key it’s just different ways to represent how it’s pronounced.
Just look up the tomato entry to see how they explain different pronunciations.
I don’t think we are reading the m-w pronunciation guide the same and although that might make an interesting discussion, it’s not germane to the thread.
More to the point, in GW2, Tyrians can pronounce those words however they please: these golems and wyverns are inventions of ANet and while they might owe creative origins to specific stories or other games, they need not fit the mold exactly. As it turns out, the pronunciations are consistent with some existing variations and that’s all that should matter.
In other words, the Tyrian-Webster dictionary supports the in-game pronunciations.
John Smith: “you should kill monsters, because killing monsters is awesome.”
It is so weird and sad that English words dont explicitly reveal its pronunciation when it is written. You have to say that “O, hey it rhymes with this and that”.
On the topic, i am not even sure if i pronounce ‘gall-uhm’ and ‘wiv-urn’ correctly.
[VcY] Velocity – Gargamell
Golem is from Hebrew/Jewish mythology and hence is spelled goh-lem. Wyvern, well I am no native English speaker, but was surprised it’s not wive-ern.
‘would have/would’ve been’ —> correct
‘would of been’ —> wrong
‘would of been’ —> wrong
I don’t mind Wyvern being pronounced differently. I personally prefer WHY-vern as I think it sounds more intimidating and interesting, but either way works for me.
Golem, though… yah. I don’t like when people use Gahl-um. Like, before LoTR came out I basically only heard it pronounced Goh-lem, so I can only assume the sudden influx of people pronouncing it the other way is due to that. But it doesn’t even make sense to pronounce it that way because of LoTR since its a characters name rather than referring to a magical sentient construct, and not even spelled the same way either.
Yeah, that was my observation in the other thread. I remember first hearing “Gall-uhm” in Dragon Age, then again here, and I presumed it was because of LotR and widespread ignorance that the character Gollum has nothing to do with fantasy golems.
It’s pronounced ‘gall-uhm’ and ‘wiv-urn’ now because that is how it is pronounced by people now.
And while I am at it:
- decimate does not mean ‘to destroy to one tenth’ (not anymore)
- there is nothing incorrect with split infinitives
- you can use ‘literally’ as an intensive rather than as precisely ‘literally’
- dialects like African American Vernacular English (so-called ‘ebonics’) are not a sign of inferior education but rather a fully capable language system in and of itself
- there is nothing special about the oxford comma – it’s a stylistic choice and nothing more.
Language is very different than the rules you learned in English class.
No, it actually doesn’t work that way. There are still standard english rules, and language rules exist for a reason – to establish and sustain coherence and clarity in communication. Granted, like everything else, language evolves over time, but that doesn’t mean disregarding norms, abruptly changing the meaning or pronunciation of a word out of widespread ignorance, or making up your own syntax and sentence structure shouldn’t be discouraged. That’s how English became such a mess of things that break normal conventions in the first place.
“Goh-lem” is correct, based on the dictionary, the established history of the term, and on standard English pronunciation key. “gall-um” is a brand new pronunciation that likely derives from the popularity of the LotR movies and is not correct as it’s a conflation of two unrelated things.
(edited by Einlanzer.1627)
Also when we say English. You mean British English right?
Because to me, the American way is “goal-um” because sports.
And the English way is “gall-um”. Because reasons.
On a more serious note. It is pronounced how ever you want to. And in the end it doesn’t really matter.
Guild Leader of Lunar Tree[LT].
Officer of Power Overwhelming[ZERK].
First term Forum PvE Specialist.
Officer of Power Overwhelming[ZERK].
First term Forum PvE Specialist.
It’s pronounced ‘gall-uhm’ and ‘wiv-urn’ now because that is how it is pronounced by people now.
And while I am at it:
- decimate does not mean ‘to destroy to one tenth’ (not anymore)
- there is nothing incorrect with split infinitives
- you can use ‘literally’ as an intensive rather than as precisely ‘literally’
- dialects like African American Vernacular English (so-called ‘ebonics’) are not a sign of inferior education but rather a fully capable language system in and of itself
- there is nothing special about the oxford comma – it’s a stylistic choice and nothing more.
Language is very different than the rules you learned in English class.
THANK YOU!!!!
I cannot stress this post enough. I cannot +1 this post enough.
As an English major, I wholly agree with this post.
No, it actually doesn’t work that way. There are still standard english rules, and language rules exist for a reason – to establish and sustain coherence and clarity in communication.
You must take into account, however, that there is a huge variance in the rules.
These variances are often denoted as dialects and accents. They result in different pronunciations and different meanings behind words used. They oft vary based on one’s local region.
If one wanted to nitpick enough, one can argue that there are hundreds of “proper ways” of speaking English.
People tend to misplace what’s often called “high English” with “proper English”. There is a difference between the two terms, however, as “proper English” doesn’t truly exist.
Dear ANet writers,
Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.
Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.
(edited by Konig Des Todes.2086)
It’s pronounced ‘gall-uhm’ and ‘wiv-urn’ now because that is how it is pronounced by people now.
And while I am at it:
- decimate does not mean ‘to destroy to one tenth’ (not anymore)
- there is nothing incorrect with split infinitives
- you can use ‘literally’ as an intensive rather than as precisely ‘literally’
- dialects like African American Vernacular English (so-called ‘ebonics’) are not a sign of inferior education but rather a fully capable language system in and of itself
- there is nothing special about the oxford comma – it’s a stylistic choice and nothing more.
Language is very different than the rules you learned in English class.
THANK YOU!!!!
I cannot stress this post enough. I cannot +1 this post enough.
As an English major, I wholly agree with this post.
No, it actually doesn’t work that way. There are still standard english rules, and language rules exist for a reason – to establish and sustain coherence and clarity in communication.
You must take into account, however, that there is a huge variance in the rules.
These variances are often denoted as dialects and accents. They result in different pronunciations and different meanings behind words used. They oft vary based on one’s local region.
If one wanted to nitpick enough, one can argue that there are hundreds of “proper ways” of speaking English.
People tend to misplace what’s often called “high English” with “proper English”. There is a difference between the two terms, however, as “proper English” doesn’t truly exist.
One of the variances that always seems to come up when I go to England is the letter “R”.
In Ireland, we pronounce it “or”.
They pronounce it “are”.
Invariably, if I say “or” when I’m spelling out something, the English person I’m with will say " “Or”? “Or” is a word, not a letter"
And I’m left replying with "So is kittening “Are” !"
- you can use ‘literally’ as an intensive rather than as precisely ‘literally’
No you can’t, not because it’s incorrect or unclear or doesn’t convey what you mean, but because objective language is a necessity and should not be destroyed because lazy and stupid people have an addiction to euphemisms.
Or in layman’s terms, when ‘literally’ no longer means ‘literally’, then our language no longer has a clearly defined adverb to use when we want to say something is ‘literal’. While there are good and plenty of ways to figuratively emphasize a point.
Language naturally changes and we can’t stop that, but the difference between evolving and devolving is whether or not it is becoming more or less clear that you have communicated what you intended to communicate.
(edited by Conncept.7638)
“Goh-lem” is correct, based on the dictionary, the established history of the term, and on standard English pronunciation key. “gall-um” is a brand new pronunciation that likely derives from the popularity of the LotR movies and is not correct as it’s a conflation of two unrelated things.
Not brand new. I was pronouncing it that way all the way back to the late 70s, but the source is related. I was a big fan of Rankin/Bass’ The Hobbit
Language is usually in a constant flux to improve itself (reducing words which have nothing meaningful to add, simplifying others which are commonly used, creating new ones if others are insufficient).
Spelling and especially pronunciation (which drives spelling) are a result of that. Dictionaries actually caused most languages to stagnate a lot. Yes it might be easier to learn and easier to be understood by a higher number of people, but language evolves for a reason.
Just think of an easy example like color or colour. American English removed the unnecessary u because just saying color is easier to pronounce and spell and does not in any way detract meaning.
Language naturally changes and we can’t stop that, but the difference between evolving and devolving is whether or not it is becoming more or less clear that you have communicated what you intended to communicate.
And literally used in both cases does not subtract from that. Both meanings can be used because context clearly defines which meaning is used. There are a lot of words which have more than one meaning, but in any case context gives you all the information, which is effectively an evolution, as it’s both easier (less words) and does not in any way subtract meaning.
It’s fine that things change, but not all change is good, so why excuse a matter like this as an acceptable evolution of the language simply because it’s (supposedly) popular?
I guess in Tyria they pronounce it that way ¯\(?)/¯