Guild Wars 2

I’m posting this here because this is a gamewide proposal covering all game modes. It is more for WvW and PvP but also could apply to PvE. The impetus for this is because condition damage is hard to balance due to a wide distribution of cleanses and immunities between classes. I’m also a condition damage user, which helps me make suggestions that aren’t based on irrational hatred of condition damage or a misunderstanding of previous balance options. That said, this is not a nerf thread. This is also not a buff thread. This is a core balance thread for condition damage to address frustrations on both sides.

Condition cleanse, or lack thereof, either mean a person deals incredible damage—albeit over time—or almost none. Timing of cleanse is “skill” but the ability to “cover” conditions is a way of frustrating even the most well intentioned build design (one that does take conditions into consideration). Even so, a condition user may find that an opponent can effective negate their damage to below that of average healing or regeneration. This isn’t, of course, every class in the game. Some will have less or more ability in this area. But the experience for the average player is often one of frustration—either because they died without being able to stop it or were unable to kill someone at all because the other player was effectively a bunker against conditon damage even with an otherwise dps build.

I propose that all generic and condi damage specific cleanses be removed from the game. In exchange, condition damage would be reduced in WvW and PvP (and incoming damage in PvE) on a build by build basis. Many condition builds aren’t viable now precisely because of a cleanse arms race to either spike people down with condi or cleanse regular application into meaninglessness. Some condition builds are therefore too viable despite cleanse. Balance here requires both buffs (by removing cleanse generally) and nerfs to subsequently over performing builds.

I would not touch soft cc specific cleanses, although that may be worth a balance thread on its own.

Well…

You have Bunkers and Tanky builds
You have Condicleansers both personal and AOE
You have Condibouncers (epidemic)
You have Reflectors (mesmer/guardian)
You have Stealth/Invisibuilds (perma thief, PU ©Mesmer)
You have Bursters/Spikers
You have Stackers…..
You have CC-ers…

All of these can potentially use light field/whirl, AOE cleanses ( & trooper runes) or be assisted by these, some can return by skills, some can return with sigils, some can clean with sigils, some can juts be temporary invulnerable due to resistance, or traits (diamond skin)….

With all of these options 1 thing remains, you still need to ramp up, and even though you could destroy healing by interupting or poison, a condi kill can be way easier or way more difficult depending largely on the class and the mechanics used….

The fact the effects vary so much by class/ traits/gear/skills makes the game more fun. I do not need a basic skill with 1-3 deteriorating things a blind and a immo… I like the present variety of conditions and skils to counter them…

Oh and I almost forgot, you also have condi cleanses…

I kinda had a crazy idea a while back for Condi damage but in a Burst fashion:

Condition Detonation.
in instances where you perhaps know the enemy is going to cleanse all the conditions on him, you use a skill that forces the game to immediately apply all remaining ticks of damage, possibly at reduced damage, maybe not… but apply all of it in one cluster of damage. the enemy would be rid of all its conditions, but they would do instant damage. sorta like epidemic, but an implosion of sorts.

Edit: or, perhaps even a skill that causes all conditions for a short time to apply their damage directly, but at only 75% effectiveness? sorta like those skills that make someones attacks unblockable for 5 seconds, basically turns your conditions uncleansable(because they do all damage in 1 tick) for several seconds.

Second Edit: or maybe tone it down a bit and make it a trait that focuses on just one condition, like making all your poisons do instant damage instead of DoT.

SakuraJD.4720:

I kinda had a crazy idea a while back for Condi damage but in a Burst fashion:

Condition Detonation.
in instances where you perhaps know the enemy is going to cleanse all the conditions on him, you use a skill that forces the game to immediately apply all remaining ticks of damage, possibly at reduced damage, maybe not… but apply all of it in one cluster of damage. the enemy would be rid of all its conditions, but they would do instant damage. sorta like epidemic, but an implosion of sorts.

Edit: or, perhaps even a skill that causes all conditions for a short time to apply their damage directly, but at only 75% effectiveness? sorta like those skills that make someones attacks unblockable for 5 seconds, basically turns your conditions uncleansable(because they do all damage in 1 tick) for several seconds.

Second Edit: or maybe tone it down a bit and make it a trait that focuses on just one condition, like making all your poisons do instant damage instead of DoT.

I like this idea, as long as there is a tradeoff in damage when triggering them early. 50-75% or whatever like you mentioned (whatever works through testing). Without the damage falloff I don’t think it would work, as there would be little incentive not to always just insta trigger the condition damage.