Guild Wars 2

Dphorak.7496:

Could someone please explain to me what “kitten” means in this context? I notice people on these forums use it a lot

Its the profanity ‘filter’ word. Bring up the post as a quote and you’ll see the original words in place.

I knew this trait system was a bust…

Why couldn’t they design Na/Eu versions separate from the Chinese release?

Oh that’s right not even the Chinese player would stand that mess….So they had to make sure we all drown too.

Just want to chime in as a new player who is in the process of levelling his first toon to 80. I have an engineer main in his early forties, level wise, and because of this change I can no longer access Master traits, meaning I’m stuck with the rather meager abilities on offer at the adept level. I don’t understand the scaling back of the access to these abilities. By level 40 you have put in a fair bit of play time, you should be rather capable at playing and understanding your class, I was enjoying building my character based on having access to the enhanced functionality of the Master traits and finally being able to specialise my build in any meaningful way. Getting Master traits at level 40 felt like a long time coming and a just reward, now it’s 20 levels further!?

I’m already at the point where I basically have all the slot skills I want, so as far as that goes, there’s nothing new on offer. At least with the trait system as it was I could look forward to my character gradually strengthening with every level and tinkering with the adept/master traits. Now as it is, this game will be a stagnant grind until level 60 when finally something new is open.

I feel that the changes were not considered enough for players in my level range, and if it is true that ArenaNet has an issue with new players falling off before level 80, they have just shot themselves in the foot.

I like the new traits and i understand where they are coming from by making it 5 points now equals one in terms of adjusting your build.

what i dont understand is why they had to make it that way for progression/levelling, i already have all my characters at lvl 80 so i have not been effected by this at all asides from having a few new traits to play with (love my ele now, thanks for that).

surely keeping it as five trait points instead of 1 big leap works better for people levelling, then just take the UI and make it shift 5 at a time so doing that is quicker (togglable so you can still spend one as you level up) . You dont have to go and change how you get them.

i think that if there was anything to take from this, it is that the desired result of making the levelling process more spaced out so that you are always feeling like you are earning something has been a total backfire. People seem on large to simply be claiming the opposite, now they arent earning anything for greater periods of time, they are being deprived of skills that they could have achieved earlier that made the game more fun to play, all that seems to have changed is that everything just takes longer to get more fun.

you should change the levelling and trait unlock to the way it was before, figure out a -new- way to make levelling more fun, dont just take whats already there and drip feed them it instead of letting them enjoy it all at once.

(an idea coould be to grant low lvl people some kind of mission system, something akin to dailies that simply grants them exp boost or attack boost for a period of time or a basic yet fun enhancement stone for a weapon or armour,a mission where they get told something like “sparkly fen is in need of a hero, do 5 events there to restore balance”) idk its an idea but you get my point, you should be thinking of new ways to liven up the game, not ways to change whats already there into something else, that way you can only ever upset some people at the chance to please others which imo isnt worth it.)

new is better but keep the old.

I’ve decided to provide some constructive criticism vs all the unorganized complaining in this thread. I haven’t read through every single page, but I have read through the first couple, with that said. Here’s my 2 constructive cents rubbed together.

Things I like:
I enjoy the new point system vs the old in theory. I enjoy the fact that when my 80’s re-trait I don’t have to click 70 times to assign everything when I know where I want them by a factor of 5. I’m also a fan of unlocking the traits through events, it encourages people to explore the world and try new things, plus you kept the ability to just purchase them too.

Things I dislike:
You don’t get your first trait until level 30. I started a brand new character once the update hit and used a level 20 scroll thinking I had avoided the worse part of a new character grind, only to find that this pain was delayed to 30. Not bad, used some boosters I had in the bank, 4 hours later I was 30. What I severely dislike is the fact that some of the tier 1 traits are not accessible for low levels (the required events are in higher level zones) when they become unlocked. This forces you to purchase them. Again, not a problem, except for the astronomical price in skill points. I’m strangely OK with paying 43 gold for (all) the traits, but not 360 skill points, that is just purely rediculous.

Things I’d like to see changed:
Lower the skill point requirement for the traits Perhaps making it T1=1, T2=2, T3=3? I have six level 80 characters. Having to rerun all these events just to get the traits on a new character is extremely irritating. I’d also like to see skill points starting at level 15, and getting one every 5 levels up to the level cap. Also, as stated above, it would be amazing if you could keep the tier traits available to achieve at the level in which they’re unlocked. I feel cheated when I see a trait I want on my level 32 elementalist that can only be achieved in Mount Maelstrom.

Lothirieth.3408:

Hunting for skills as we did in GW1 was something that was asked for I think during the horizontal progression talks in one of the CDIs so I appreciate that the devs have tried to do something like that with the needing to unlock the new traits. Unfortunately I feel the activities they are making us do to unlock said traits aren’t great.

This. The event unlocks aren’t nearly as satisfying as the signet of capture system from GW1.

I think this new system sucks.

I have 1 level 80 character and 6 alts right now. Those alts all got hammered by this change. They have all lost a ton of trait points and access to traits; my level 48 Guardian had a fully functional build that just got trashed and won’t be workable again until at least level 60. This patch has completely screwed leveling characters. The worst part is that levels now feel totally useless. By the time you are in your 30s or so, most of the skills you want are already unlocked. The ONLY thing you gain every level now is a skill point. Which most of the time I don’t care about anyway, or i’m saving up for something expensive. Thhe one thing you got to do when leveling was spend your trait point, something that only happens once ever 6 levels now. That sucks. It makes leveling far less interesting and low level builds are much lamer now that the trait tiers are so much higher. It really kills my interest in leveling the characters I have left. And since I was already bored with my main anyway, well, it doesn’t leave me with a whole lot I want to be doing right now.

Now, I do like the idea of adding new traits that need to be unlocked by doing certain content. But some of the requirements for unlocks seem kind of ridiculous. Every class has a new trait tied to beating the Karka queen. Seriously? Screw that.

I feel that the new trait system is a step in the right direction. Some adjustments need to be made, but it stands to make leveling more interesting, (after level thirty, that is).

30 levels with no traits after unlocking all of your weapon skills by level 2? LOL, please…What were these people thinking? (Protip: Buy level 20 scrolls).

Dark Catalyst.1028:

30 levels with no traits after unlocking all of your weapon skills by level 2? LOL, please…What were these people thinking? (Protip: Buy level 20 scrolls).

Lol when will those be in the gem shop…

blakdoxa.7520:

Dark Catalyst.1028:

30 levels with no traits after unlocking all of your weapon skills by level 2? LOL, please…What were these people thinking? (Protip: Buy level 20 scrolls).

Lol when will those be in the gem shop…

Soon, I’m sure. They’ll let people be super annoyed for a week or two first.

Mistdemon.9806:

Why break something that was working so well and turn it into a complex 20 clicks setup just to customize your hero’s traits.
That’s also forcing people to build external trait calculators to deal with the mess in the UI.
Product wise, I don’t understand the change, one of the major features in an RPG game is to allow the hero to open up new abilities while leveling up, if these traits open at level 80 after the hero finsihed leveling up, what’s the point?

Because NO other MMO in History, ever had skills unavailable until you hit the cap level?

Kallandra.2610:

I have a level 22 character, who i’d unlocked the first tier of traits using a manual. I’d spent at least 5 traits. Now it’s greyed out and says it won’t unlock till level 30. So I’ve lost everything that was there.

I’m sure I read somewhere that characters who had unlocked traits would not be affected, and only new characters would have to wait till they reached level 30?

You read wrong. ALL the traits are unlocked for old players created before the patch. BUT all that means is, you do not have to pay for the traits at the Traits vendor. ALL have to wait til level 30 to accrue trait points.

The difference is, that OLD players will have immediate access to traits once they start accruing trait points… NEW characters need to pay for the manuals.

MAD CAT.9321:

You guys complain too much

+ 100

Now, with the new trait system we are only able to use the trait system at lv30 and throwing 5 points at a time into a trait line.

This new thingy was implemented to so that “spending traits will be much easier for new players to understand” and wouldn’t “wind up with a less effective build”. Lets not forget that with this patch, we are able to reset traits points on the go. This allows newbies to easily alter their traits after messing up their current configuration.

Even if new players do mess up their trait lines and have an ineffective build, doesnt the free resets of trait points suffice to fix it? The hardest part of that would be locating the hero panel and I am sure that is something you should already know at lv10(previous trait system). I feel that there really isn’t a need to condense the trait system to the lv30 mark. The free and instant trait reset should already cover newbies messing their trait lines up.

The condensing of the trait system does not help newbies understand the trait system better, it kills the UNDERSTANDING of it and forces you to make right decisions at the expense of everyone that already knows how to use it. Players see the one new trait point as an indication of progress, nerfing PvE won’t give players the satisfaction of leveling and using that one trait point. The only reason I made it to lv 24 with my warrior is because of the personal story line which I am able to continue with once every two levels due to having a level disadvantage. This makes the other half a much painful process and having that one trait point really relieves me off this agony.

What I am saying, is that the only bad part (or only that I’ve experienced thus far) of the new trait system would be condensing the trait points to be usable at lv30.

What I want and hope other players do want, is to give us back the old system that we would start traiting at lv10. Everything else can remain the same. (probably)

For those getting kittened and all, we should consider this. There will always be features we do not enjoy and features we do enjoy, we should view Anet’s success in patches through —-—> Number of features we enjoy/Total no. of features.

Example by me:
Pros
1.Free trait resets on the go.
2.New traits(I do find some useful)
3.Earning traits
Cons:
1.Traiting at 30.
That is 3/4, all in all Anet did well.

MAD CAT.9321:

Looks like people will be moving back to tera, warcraft, or ESO now! Good job Anet!

Any players that would leave when the play in general is improved, and only give the new system 2 days… before packing their bags and going back…I will not miss.

Asacledhae.2650:

Even though i prefer lesser numbers on my trait window, I’m not a fan of the new trait system either, and i find it rather weird and unnecessary to have to start unlocking them from level 30. I simply don’t see the point. As for having to buy or “hunt” the major ones? That’s simply ridiculous.

The game simply has too many levels to begin with. It used to be a struggle even with an instant level 20 experience scroll to get stuff going.. Now, it’s a struggle until level 66, and then your character gets a whack of power! 2 trait points (A.K.A 10 with the old system), as if he’s been thrown into the air using a Charr cow catapult! (I Believe i can fly!!).

I had the chance to play the game a tad with a non level 80 character (Mesmer), and to Anet’s defense, the map felt a tad easier to battle around (No, i wasn’t in Queensdale, i was playing Timberline Falls). So i suspect the “nerf” of the creatures exists.

Either way, starting to earn traits from lower levels like we used to, would be a nice idea. And of course, keep the ones prior to the XIII ones unlocked even for the new players, they won’t be happy to have to buy them to be effective.

I’m not happy to have to buy the new ones either, but that’s a whole different story, as i won’t miss what i never had.

Everyone says How " expensive" it is to pay for the manuals. The issue is… the game needs a Gold sink or players will just have gobs and gobs and gobs of Money. I Know that sounds Like a good thing, but in an MMO it’s Not a good thing.

You need to take Money out of the game, as well as put money IN.

Yes you pay for a Manual to unlock a trait. But after it’s unlocked you can respecc free…at will… anywhere, at any time, as Long as you are out of combat.

For me…. this alone is worth paying for the Unlocked traits once.

As for grandmaster Traits, it is fun to have the option to unlock them without having to pay for them, by playing the game.

Nerelith.7360:

Kallandra.2610:

I have a level 22 character, who i’d unlocked the first tier of traits using a manual. I’d spent at least 5 traits. Now it’s greyed out and says it won’t unlock till level 30. So I’ve lost everything that was there.

I’m sure I read somewhere that characters who had unlocked traits would not be affected, and only new characters would have to wait till they reached level 30?

You read wrong. ALL the traits are unlocked for old players created before the patch. BUT all that means is, you do not have to pay for the traits at the Traits vendor. ALL have to wait til level 30 to accrue trait points.

The difference is, that OLD players will have immediate access to traits once they start accruing trait points… NEW characters need to pay for the manuals.

Not necessarily. In order to get all your traits unlocked prior to the patch you had to had been at least lv 60 and already used all 3 trait books. If you didn’t, you only unlock up to the tier you had pre-update.

An example would be that I had a lv 40 after the patch. I unlocked the master tier before the patch so I get all of those traits post update due to being grandfathered in. Yet when I hit 60 post-update I won’t unlock the GM tier, I’ll only be unlock master tier which I already had pre-update. So I’ll have to trudge through 20 level with no access to master traits until 60. To add further to the burn, Gm doesn’t unlock till 80. Since I didn’t reach 60 to unlock GM traits before the update hit I have to either pay or travel all over the universe to unlock traits. Traits I can’t even use till level 80…
As you can see…this is a pretty big setback and sorta reduces the incentive to even play alts under this new trait system.

Although, it’s worse for newer players that came in just before the update as they are still learning the game or may have become used to the older system only to have it suddenly flip and find themselves very much setback.

I like those changes

In a way leveling was to easy nothing really to work for now it has a challange.

It might be the best leveling system i ever saw in every mmo

GJ anet this game has a future when go on like that

Baldrick.8967:

Got to do Karka Queen for one of them…can’t be much more lame than that…

Karka Queen is easy. Did her on 2 alts in 2 days.

I can kind of see what the spirit of the changes were, but I don’t believe they are productive to game play as a whole. The skill point requirement for unlocking traits seems a very strange choice, for one thing, and reducing and moving back the trait points to level 30 was excessive. You’ll only alienate new players, and you’ve done little to entice older players into staying on.

You can also expect champ trains and zergs in general to be more common, because until they hit 80 most of the player base will be far less capable, while the zergs will remain an effective way of accumulating wealth and skill points (via skill scroll drops) that will now be even more necessary. This will come at the expense of exploration, because of the increased difficulty of doing anything outside of a large group. So if you wanted to encourage players to explore and experiment, this change pretty much does exactly the opposite of what you wanted.

Let me add that the reason I and a lot of my friends picked this game up in the first place was because it was different, with the focus on exploration rather than grinding.

Nerelith.7360:

Dark Catalyst.1028:

SpyderArachnid.5619:

Dark Catalyst.1028:

’Nother nail in the coffin it seems. Can you buy skill points in the gem shop yet?

Knowing Anet, they will use this to their advantage to sell Skill Unlock Packs in the Gem Store…..

I was wary when I bought Guild Wars 2 because it generates revenue purely with the cash shop and it turns out my suspicions were correct. This is what you get with B2P and I will never make this mistake again.

Everyone knows you Love WoW, and WoW clones. You never liked Gw2, this is not news. Why you would buy this game to begin with is the only thing I am intrigued by…. maybe Not enough homework to realize " Not the game for me"?

Liked it just fine the first two months after release.

My Opinion on the current trait system. I think all in all it’s a good one. I know I am a member of the minority. I’ll try to explain my personal feelings about the points as I see them.

Instead of levelling 1 trait point per level,… and ending up with 70 points by level 80, I only get 14 points by level 80, each representing 5 or 6 old Points.

Some say that not having 1 trait point per level that gave them + 10 power or + 10 precision or + 1 % to shatter recharge , ( fill in your classes whatever measurement here)…. means that you do Not feel progression.

Personally…I never felt any progression. Since it was given to me at 10 points per level…level…after lever……after level….. all I saw was killing tougher mobs supposedly..see since I never tried to kill a level 80 karka, with a level 30 character I really never new how Powerful the karka was..or how much more Powerful, My level 80 character is over my level 30.

I can see the idea that each trait point represents 50 or 60 power. or + 5% or + 6 % to recharge rate etc… I can see the dev contention that this WILL lead to players actually feeling that progression.

when you get that 1 Point, and instantly have an extra + 50 power….. you will see it when you tackle that Mob that was level 34… and you 34…now you 35… and having + 50 Power, you will feel the difference.

It’s staggered but it is there, The Old system…. it wasn’t.

PS Sometimes What is best for a game, and what will make a player experience more fun…is counter-intuitive. The Mind says " this will make things harder for me therefore it’s bad." when in fact it will make things more challenging.

Sometimes More challenging makes something more fun, and makes achievements more meaningful, and therefore More memorable. It’s Like reading a drama…. or More appropriate…a HERO legend. That is who we are supposed to be In RPG’s a hero.

Anything that makes our achievements meaningful is good. Anything that ads challenge does this. Anything that makes any part of the game a cake walk, doesn’t.

PPS I hear a LOT of players talk about how they do Not like " grinding". I remember playing MMO’s before WoW was released. And back then there was a totally different meaning to the term “grind”. Let’s just say that what many new players call grinding… back then was called…. playing.

It seems many players that play MMO’s want it handed to them on a platter and do not really like playing.

Nerelith.7360:

My Opinion on the current trait system. I think all in all it’s a good one. I know I am a member of the minority. I’ll try to explain my personal feelings about the points as I see them.

Instead of levelling 1 trait point per level,… and ending up with 70 points by level 80, I only get 14 points by level 80, each representing 5 or 6 old Points.

Some say that not having 1 trait point per level that gave them + 10 power or + 10 precision or + 1 % to shatter recharge , ( fill in your classes whatever measurement here)…. means that you do Not feel progression.

Personally…I never felt any progression. Since it was given to me at 10 points per level…level…after lever……after level….. all I saw was killing tougher mobs supposedly..see since I never tried to kill a level 80 karka, with a level 30 character I really never new how Powerful the karka was..or how much more Powerful, My level 80 character is over my level 30.

I can see the idea that each trait point represents 50 or 60 power. or + 5% or + 6 % to recharge rate etc… I can see the dev contention that this WILL lead to players actually feeling that progression.

when you get that 1 Point, and instantly have an extra + 50 power….. you will see it when you tackle that Mob that was level 34… and you 34…now you 35… and having + 50 Power, you will feel the difference.

It’s staggered but it is there, The Old system…. it wasn’t.

PS Sometimes What is best for a game, and what will make a player experience more fun…is counter-intuitive. The Mind says " this will make things harder for me therefore it’s bad." when in fact it will make things more challenging.

Sometimes More challenging makes something more fun, and makes achievements more meaningful, and therefore More memorable. It’s Like reading a drama…. or More appropriate…a HERO legend. That is who we are supposed to be In RPG’s a hero.

Anything that makes our achievements meaningful is good. Anything that ads challenge does this. Anything that makes any part of the game a cake walk, doesn’t.

PPS I hear a LOT of players talk about how they do Not like " grinding". I remember playing MMO’s before WoW was released. And back then there was a totally different meaning to the term “grind”. Let’s just say that what many new players call grinding… back then was called…. playing.

It seems many players that play MMO’s want it handed to them on a platter and do not really like playing.

try it. go and actually play an alt and tell me it feels better than it used to feel to level.
enjoy having to wait 30 levels to refine your style, and once you hit 30, you only have the equivalent build you used to have at 15.
See how much you enjoy having traits in zones that are 10 levels higher than you are, as your goals.

i get the feeling you are focusing too much on the number conversion of 1 per five levels, and not the real thing people are complaining about, the push back of build refinement by 20 levels and the poorly designed quests to get them.

phys.7689:

Nerelith.7360:

My Opinion on the current trait system. I think all in all it’s a good one. I know I am a member of the minority. I’ll try to explain my personal feelings about the points as I see them.

Instead of levelling 1 trait point per level,… and ending up with 70 points by level 80, I only get 14 points by level 80, each representing 5 or 6 old Points.

Some say that not having 1 trait point per level that gave them + 10 power or + 10 precision or + 1 % to shatter recharge , ( fill in your classes whatever measurement here)…. means that you do Not feel progression.

Personally…I never felt any progression. Since it was given to me at 10 points per level…level…after lever……after level….. all I saw was killing tougher mobs supposedly..see since I never tried to kill a level 80 karka, with a level 30 character I really never new how Powerful the karka was..or how much more Powerful, My level 80 character is over my level 30.

I can see the idea that each trait point represents 50 or 60 power. or + 5% or + 6 % to recharge rate etc… I can see the dev contention that this WILL lead to players actually feeling that progression.

when you get that 1 Point, and instantly have an extra + 50 power….. you will see it when you tackle that Mob that was level 34… and you 34…now you 35… and having + 50 Power, you will feel the difference.

It’s staggered but it is there, The Old system…. it wasn’t.

PS Sometimes What is best for a game, and what will make a player experience more fun…is counter-intuitive. The Mind says " this will make things harder for me therefore it’s bad." when in fact it will make things more challenging.

Sometimes More challenging makes something more fun, and makes achievements more meaningful, and therefore More memorable. It’s Like reading a drama…. or More appropriate…a HERO legend. That is who we are supposed to be In RPG’s a hero.

Anything that makes our achievements meaningful is good. Anything that ads challenge does this. Anything that makes any part of the game a cake walk, doesn’t.

PPS I hear a LOT of players talk about how they do Not like " grinding". I remember playing MMO’s before WoW was released. And back then there was a totally different meaning to the term “grind”. Let’s just say that what many new players call grinding… back then was called…. playing.

It seems many players that play MMO’s want it handed to them on a platter and do not really like playing.

try it. go and actually play an alt and tell me it feels better than it used to feel to level.
enjoy having to wait 30 levels to refine your style, and once you hit 30, you only have the equivalent build you used to have at 15.
See how much you enjoy having traits in zones that are 10 levels higher than you are, as your goals.

i get the feeling you are focusing too much on the number conversion of 1 per five levels, and not the real thing people are complaining about, the push back of build refinement by 20 levels and the poorly designed quests to get them.

You know you have a good point. Now let me ask you this. if I level a character …starting tonight or tomorrow to level 80, and still say the same thing I am saying now… what will your responce be then?

I have a feeling even after i do this, if I should still say " I love these changes" you will simply come up with a reason to invalidate my opinion.

So please, Go on record. What will be proven to you, if I start a level 1 character. And get her to level 80, Under the new system, if My opinion remains unchanged?

Nerelith.7360:

phys.7689:

Nerelith.7360:

My Opinion on the current trait system. I think all in all it’s a good one. I know I am a member of the minority. I’ll try to explain my personal feelings about the points as I see them.

Instead of levelling 1 trait point per level,… and ending up with 70 points by level 80, I only get 14 points by level 80, each representing 5 or 6 old Points.

Some say that not having 1 trait point per level that gave them + 10 power or + 10 precision or + 1 % to shatter recharge , ( fill in your classes whatever measurement here)…. means that you do Not feel progression.

Personally…I never felt any progression. Since it was given to me at 10 points per level…level…after lever……after level….. all I saw was killing tougher mobs supposedly..see since I never tried to kill a level 80 karka, with a level 30 character I really never new how Powerful the karka was..or how much more Powerful, My level 80 character is over my level 30.

I can see the idea that each trait point represents 50 or 60 power. or + 5% or + 6 % to recharge rate etc… I can see the dev contention that this WILL lead to players actually feeling that progression.

when you get that 1 Point, and instantly have an extra + 50 power….. you will see it when you tackle that Mob that was level 34… and you 34…now you 35… and having + 50 Power, you will feel the difference.

It’s staggered but it is there, The Old system…. it wasn’t.

PS Sometimes What is best for a game, and what will make a player experience more fun…is counter-intuitive. The Mind says " this will make things harder for me therefore it’s bad." when in fact it will make things more challenging.

Sometimes More challenging makes something more fun, and makes achievements more meaningful, and therefore More memorable. It’s Like reading a drama…. or More appropriate…a HERO legend. That is who we are supposed to be In RPG’s a hero.

Anything that makes our achievements meaningful is good. Anything that ads challenge does this. Anything that makes any part of the game a cake walk, doesn’t.

PPS I hear a LOT of players talk about how they do Not like " grinding". I remember playing MMO’s before WoW was released. And back then there was a totally different meaning to the term “grind”. Let’s just say that what many new players call grinding… back then was called…. playing.

It seems many players that play MMO’s want it handed to them on a platter and do not really like playing.

try it. go and actually play an alt and tell me it feels better than it used to feel to level.
enjoy having to wait 30 levels to refine your style, and once you hit 30, you only have the equivalent build you used to have at 15.
See how much you enjoy having traits in zones that are 10 levels higher than you are, as your goals.

i get the feeling you are focusing too much on the number conversion of 1 per five levels, and not the real thing people are complaining about, the push back of build refinement by 20 levels and the poorly designed quests to get them.

You know you have a good point. Now let me ask you this. if I level a character …starting tonight or tomorrow to level 80, and still say the same thing I am saying now… what will your responce be then?

I have a feeling even after i do this, if I should still say " I love these changes" you will simply come up with a reason to invalidate my opinion.

So please, Go on record. What will be proven to you, if I start a level 1 character. And get her to level 80, Under the new system, if My opinion remains unchanged?

i will try to analyze what you liked, and disliked, and figure how to improve the system for all. I mean if its really fun, its all good. But i started up a charachter, and i quickly was like, hmm feels like this will be a lot better if autolevel to 30 then do it.

but hey, screw it, ill play with you if you want. Lets travel the road to hel together

Im dont have an agenda or a team here, i am looking at the game overall, and how it is for new players and alt players. I have 8 professions of every class i dont have to level a lowbie ever again, so its more about other players experience for me.

phys.7689:

Nerelith.7360:

phys.7689:

Nerelith.7360:

My Opinion on the current trait system. I think all in all it’s a good one.

…..snip….

PPS I hear a LOT of players talk about how they do Not like " grinding". I remember playing MMO’s before WoW was released. And back then there was a totally different meaning to the term “grind”. Let’s just say that what many new players call grinding… back then was called…. playing.

It seems many players that play MMO’s want it handed to them on a platter and do not really like playing.

try it. go and actually play an alt and tell me it feels better than it used to feel to level.
enjoy having to wait 30 levels to refine your style, and once you hit 30, you only have the equivalent build you used to have at 15.
See how much you enjoy having traits in zones that are 10 levels higher than you are, as your goals.

i get the feeling you are focusing too much on the number conversion of 1 per five levels, and not the real thing people are complaining about, the push back of build refinement by 20 levels and the poorly designed quests to get them.

You know you have a good point. Now let me ask you this. if I level a character …starting tonight or tomorrow to level 80, and still say the same thing I am saying now… what will your responce be then?

I have a feeling even after i do this, if I should still say " I love these changes" you will simply come up with a reason to invalidate my opinion.

So please, Go on record. What will be proven to you, if I start a level 1 character. And get her to level 80, Under the new system, if My opinion remains unchanged?

i will try to analyze what you liked, and disliked, and figure how to improve the system for all. I mean if its really fun, its all good. But i started up a charachter, and i quickly was like, hmm feels like this will be a lot better if autolevel to 30 then do it.

but hey, screw it, ill play with you if you want. Lets travel the road to hel together

Im dont have an agenda or a team here, i am looking at the game overall, and how it is for new players and alt players. I have 8 professions of every class i dont have to level a lowbie ever again, so its more about other players experience for me.

Sounds too Much like " I will reserve the right to disqualify your experience, and invalidate your opinion." No thanks. Tell you what though, make your level 1 Character On tarnished coast, we will level and experience the new changes together.

Nerelith.7360:

phys.7689:

Nerelith.7360:

phys.7689:

Nerelith.7360:

My Opinion on the current trait system. I think all in all it’s a good one.

…..snip….

PPS I hear a LOT of players talk about how they do Not like " grinding". I remember playing MMO’s before WoW was released. And back then there was a totally different meaning to the term “grind”. Let’s just say that what many new players call grinding… back then was called…. playing.

It seems many players that play MMO’s want it handed to them on a platter and do not really like playing.

try it. go and actually play an alt and tell me it feels better than it used to feel to level.
enjoy having to wait 30 levels to refine your style, and once you hit 30, you only have the equivalent build you used to have at 15.
See how much you enjoy having traits in zones that are 10 levels higher than you are, as your goals.

i get the feeling you are focusing too much on the number conversion of 1 per five levels, and not the real thing people are complaining about, the push back of build refinement by 20 levels and the poorly designed quests to get them.

You know you have a good point. Now let me ask you this. if I level a character …starting tonight or tomorrow to level 80, and still say the same thing I am saying now… what will your responce be then?

I have a feeling even after i do this, if I should still say " I love these changes" you will simply come up with a reason to invalidate my opinion.

So please, Go on record. What will be proven to you, if I start a level 1 character. And get her to level 80, Under the new system, if My opinion remains unchanged?

i will try to analyze what you liked, and disliked, and figure how to improve the system for all. I mean if its really fun, its all good. But i started up a charachter, and i quickly was like, hmm feels like this will be a lot better if autolevel to 30 then do it.

but hey, screw it, ill play with you if you want. Lets travel the road to hel together

Im dont have an agenda or a team here, i am looking at the game overall, and how it is for new players and alt players. I have 8 professions of every class i dont have to level a lowbie ever again, so its more about other players experience for me.

Sounds too Much like " I will reserve the right to disqualify your experience, and invalidate your opinion." No thanks. Tell you what though, make your level 1 Character On tarnished coast, we will level and experience the new changes together.

i will acknowledge whatever you come up with. charachter name is Gobri

Nerelith.7360:

Everyone says How “expensive” it is to pay for the manuals. The issue is… the game needs a Gold sink or players will just have gobs and gobs and gobs of Money. I Know that sounds Like a good thing, but in an MMO it’s Not a good thing.

You need to take Money out of the game, as well as put money IN.

One-time purchases are not effective gold-sinks, they just delay the accumulation of wealth.

ANet doesn’t seem that concerned with in-game gold-sinks either, I know they pretend to but then they introduce unlimited harvest tools in the gem shop, and remove armor repair :|

Their gold-sink is the gem shop.

Make traits account wide across the same profession, just logged on my other guardian and noticed that I am missing the new traits that I unlocked on my other guardian.

This new trait system is just awful. I have a few level 80’s which I loved levelling. I created a new character and it is just horrible getting traits. You should be just able to unlock a whole trait line rather than each trait by doing a mission. Buying traits is now much more difficult too as you have to use skill points as well.

Why couldn’t it just be buy or do a mission for a book that unlocks a whole trait line rather than a single trait?

Fenrina.2954:

I’m looking over the list of requirements. It’s really not good. For starters, traits that unlock through wvw are extremely dependent on luck. Getting close to the Overgrown Grub, let alone killing it, is a problem if one is assigned to red or green. That grub is known for being insanely hard to kill, and now it has a big bullseye over it’s head so blue people may try to camp it and prevent others from earning their traits. It also appears that only blue has a wvw boss with a trait. That may cause additional strife in wvw due to the imbalance. .

Just wanted to say.
They actually added a trait unlock in WvW??? What the hell?
As if it wasnt bad enough to have them locked behind world bosses.

anet, if we have to search traits we want to be able to solo them! and not be hindered by other players.
More forcing of pve &wvw again too.

You need more options for getting these traits. (and costing skill points, isnt one of them, as thats down right useless for newer players.)

Caligare.7946:

… I enjoy the fact that when my 80’s re-trait I don’t have to click 70 times to assign everything when I know where I want them by a factor of 5.
…

FYI, you never had to do that. Just picking e.g. a Grandmaster trait autoassigned 30 points to that skill tree. To retrait 70 skill poits usually meant klicking 3-4 traits – it still works this way now. The +- buttons however allowed for small stat increases while leveling, this is completely gone now.

Fenrina.2954:

Wishmaster.7693:

What the hell is this? To unlock a minor trait I have to get a zone to 100% completion???!!! This is complete kitten!

Which trait is this?

I agree that sounds, in general, way to high requirement for a trait. The new ones are simple “do x content” not a whole map’s worth.

Wrong. See http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Trait_guide

According to that, the following traits require 100% completion of the given area (traits for each profession have identical requirements). Zone levels are as shown. Please note: these are so-called adept traits in every case, that even under the new system you could in principle use at level 36.

Line 1, trait V: Blazeridge Steppes (40-50)

Line 2, trait IV: Lornar’s Pass (30-40)
Line 2, trait V: Bloodtide Coast (45-55)
Line 2, trait VI: Fireheart Rise (60-70)

Line 3, trait V: Fields of Ruin (30-40)
Line 3, trait VI: Iron Marches (50-60)

Line 4, trait IV: Harathi Hinterlands (35-45)
Line 4, trait V: Timberline Falls (50-60)
Line 4, trait VI: Mount Maelstrom (60-70)

Line 5, trait IV: Dredgehaunt Cliffs (40-50)
Line 5, trait V: Sparkfly Fen (55-65)
Line 5, trait VI: Frostgorge Sound (70-80)

It’s fairly clear that most people aren’t going to be able to unlock many of those at any point close to when they supposedly become available.

Edit: OK, you said new traits. If you were referring only to the new Grandmaster traits, you’re right. The point is that, for new characters, the existing major traits now have access requirements as well – and some of those are ludicrously out of reach for the level of character they’re nominally for, even under the new point allocation.

Doghouse.1562:

Fenrina.2954:

Wishmaster.7693:

What the hell is this? To unlock a minor trait I have to get a zone to 100% completion???!!! This is complete kitten!

Which trait is this?

I agree that sounds, in general, way to high requirement for a trait. The new ones are simple “do x content” not a whole map’s worth.

Wrong. See http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Trait_guide

According to that, the following traits require 100% completion of the given area (traits for each profession have identical requirements). Zone levels are as shown. Please note: these are so-called adept traits in every case, that even under the new system you could in principle use at level 36.

Line 1, trait V: Blazeridge Steppes (40-50)

Line 2, trait IV: Lornar’s Pass (30-40)
Line 2, trait V: Bloodtide Coast (45-55)
Line 2, trait VI: Fireheart Rise (60-70)

Line 3, trait V: Fields of Ruin (30-40)
Line 3, trait VI: Iron Marches (50-60)

Line 4, trait IV: Harathi Hinterlands (35-45)
Line 4, trait V: Timberline Falls (50-60)
Line 4, trait VI: Mount Maelstrom (60-70)

Line 5, trait IV: Dredgehaunt Cliffs (40-50)
Line 5, trait V: Sparkfly Fen (55-65)
Line 5, trait VI: Frostgorge Sound (70-80)

It’s fairly clear that most people aren’t going to be able to unlock many of those at any point close to when they supposedly become available.

btw first time usuable is at 30, thats your first trait point.

its pretty odd, i guess they dont expect you to get most adepts till 60 (wow even longer before you can enjoy progression) but even there some are odd like frostforge sound for a low end trait.

btw first time usuable is at 30, thats your first trait point.

But your first point goes on the first minor trait in a line. You can’t select a major trait until you get your second trait point. Hence 36.

Doghouse.1562:

Fenrina.2954:

Wishmaster.7693:

What the hell is this? To unlock a minor trait I have to get a zone to 100% completion???!!! This is complete kitten!

Which trait is this?

I agree that sounds, in general, way to high requirement for a trait. The new ones are simple “do x content” not a whole map’s worth.

Wrong. See http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Trait_guide

According to that, the following traits require 100% completion of the given area (traits for each profession have identical requirements). Zone levels are as shown. Please note: these are so-called adept traits in every case, that even under the new system you could in principle use at level 36.

Line 1, trait V: Blazeridge Steppes (40-50)

Line 2, trait IV: Lornar’s Pass (30-40)
Line 2, trait V: Bloodtide Coast (45-55)
Line 2, trait VI: Fireheart Rise (60-70)

Line 3, trait V: Fields of Ruin (30-40)
Line 3, trait VI: Iron Marches (50-60)

Line 4, trait IV: Harathi Hinterlands (35-45)
Line 4, trait V: Timberline Falls (50-60)
Line 4, trait VI: Mount Maelstrom (60-70)

Line 5, trait IV: Dredgehaunt Cliffs (40-50)
Line 5, trait V: Sparkfly Fen (55-65)
Line 5, trait VI: Frostgorge Sound (70-80)

It’s fairly clear that most people aren’t going to be able to unlock many of those at any point close to when they supposedly become available.

Sounds Like they don’t want people to simply do the champion train In different zones from 1 til 80. I mean you’ll have the level….but not the traits. Have to wait and see How effective this is.

Some things, I like. I love that we can refund trait points for free and that we don’t have to visit a trait trainer to do it. I don’t mind that the new GM traits are fixed behind world events or whatever. I don’t even mind that we have less points and level traits more slowly.

However, that’s sort of where it stops. I don’t know why they pushed back the point at which you start earning traits to 30. I DO know that my level 62 Engineer is just awful to play now and I am no longer keen to play her.

I also think that while unlocking your traits seemed like an ok idea in theory, though I wasn’t keen on it from the beginning, they seem to be stuck behind odd events that either depend on too many external factors to make getting the traits seem like nothing but a chore, or they’re stuck behind tasks like map completion in areas well above the level you are initially able to obtain that trait.

Yes, you can buy them with gold and skill points, but this goes completely against making levelling easier for new players. They’ve based this idea on old players, mostly ones who have probably been playing one main at 80 for over a year. How? Well, I seem to recall that levelling up (before account wide wallets – let’s assume a new player on their first character doesn’t have any other access to gold because that’s how it is unless they’re forced to take out their real wallet, which isn’t something they should be forced to do) I never had much money. My first character hadn’t even seen a gold by the time they reached 80. So, no money to spend on traits. I also never had many spare skill points. I like to experiment, so I unlock more skills than strictly necessary because I like to play with different builds. So no skill points either. MOST characters, unless they’re a main for someone for over a year at 80, don’t have 500 spare skill points lying around waiting to be used.

So all this really ends up doing for me, is completely restricting what builds I will play. I now have to look up the best Mesmer (as an example) build and work ONLY towards that, in order to either have the time and inclination to unlock a trait, or to have the skill points and gold to do it at the trainer. Basically, everything is such that I will only want to bother unlocking stuff that I KNOW will create a good build – any desire to experiment with different builds or diversify is gone because of the fear of wasting time, effort or money and skill points (which also will decrease the number of skills I experiment with). Cue a TON more cookie cutter builds, and the end of diversity, which was something I thought ANet wanted to increase.

I am an altoholic, but now I literally look at all my low level alts and want to delete them. SUCH a shame, as other things implemented this patch were things I loved, like the wardrobe, account bound dyes and WXP etc.

Basically, I find this game has finally pushed the “grindy” aspect to the point where I don’t want to tolerate it any more. I always argued against people who felt this game was becoming more and more like any other MMO, but I’m beginning to agree with those who insisted it was. I am really disappointed – this was the first game in a long time that’s ever held my interest for longer than a couple of months, and I really, really loved it. Now, I don’t even want to play my favourite part, levelling new characters.

Nerelith.7360:

Sounds Like they don’t want people to simply do the champion train In different zones from 1 til 80. I mean you’ll have the level….but not the traits. Have to wait and see How effective this is.

Personally (and assuming it’s deliberate, and not simply a disastrous blunder), I suspect it’s intended in part to be a gold sink. Even if you unlock absolutely nothing via content, you can buy everything on a single character for 43g (and 360 Skill Points, but the new trait guides are account bound, so anyone levelling an alt will be able to buy them using an existing character – I doubt it’s likely to be an inhibitor).

Lothirieth.3408:

Have you all seen this?

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Trait_guide

I can’t believe what I’m seeing. I can’t believe what they’ve locked traits behind during the whole leveling process.

Multiple story modes, multiple events around the world, multiple world events (some that have no schedule such as the fire shaman and dredge commissar) all the temples and the best:

Complete the Obsidian Sanctum jumping puzzle.

You have got to be kitten kidding me ANet devs.

I am not a casual player or a solo player but I find that list terrible. Personal character progression should NOT be locked behind unsoloable things!

And seriously: how on earth are we supposed to know when these events are up considering the megaservers and the removal of API?? Most maps I’ve been mapping into in Orr have had all temples and Arah open. How am I supposed to know my server is making a Balthazar attempt when I’m no longer being put on maps with primarily my server?

I’m sorry that this is worded so strongly, but this is just an absolute mess and I honestly can’t believe how you thought this would be good for the majority of your players. Yes, people enjoyed skill hunting in GW1 but it could all be done solo. That’s the type of system you should have emulated and put in place: personal skill challenges that could be done whenever the player chose to do so.

I suppose maybe this is yet another push for players to use up their gold in order to try to make them buy gems and convert to gold and completely drain them of skill points.

What is wrong with simply doing the events you feel like doing because it is things you enjoy doing anyway? And paying Gold + skill points for the things you don’t?

PS: Unless you are a completionist as I am, do you need EVERY Trait? My understanding is, that many people look up a Build, and stick with that, maybe there are some options..but Mostly stick to the same Build , so 80 % of their game play can be summed up to a few traits, not ALL traits.

Most people also do either " Look at ALL the events you need to do to get ALL the traits OMG this is HORRIBLE!" or do " Look at How expensive this is if you buy ALL these traits with Gold + Skillpoints …This is HORRIBLE!"

As I see it, Most people will NOT take EVERY trait. Most people will do SOME events because it’s doing things they enjoy anyway, or consider worth the effort for the trait they get, and ,… Most people will use cash + Skillpoints to buy those traits they feel they want..but don’t feel like doing the content to unlock.

It’s only when you go to ALL EXTREMES that it seems Horrible. But come on…How many people will take ALL TRAITS and either ONLY Pay for ALL of them with cash…. One extreme, or… ONLY Unlock ALL traits with content…. the other???

Nerelith.7360:

Show Spoiler

hide spoiler

Lothirieth.3408:

Have you all seen this?

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Trait_guide

I can’t believe what I’m seeing. I can’t believe what they’ve locked traits behind during the whole leveling process.

Multiple story modes, multiple events around the world, multiple world events (some that have no schedule such as the fire shaman and dredge commissar) all the temples and the best:

Complete the Obsidian Sanctum jumping puzzle.

You have got to be kitten kidding me ANet devs.

I am not a casual player or a solo player but I find that list terrible. Personal character progression should NOT be locked behind unsoloable things!

And seriously: how on earth are we supposed to know when these events are up considering the megaservers and the removal of API?? Most maps I’ve been mapping into in Orr have had all temples and Arah open. How am I supposed to know my server is making a Balthazar attempt when I’m no longer being put on maps with primarily my server?

I’m sorry that this is worded so strongly, but this is just an absolute mess and I honestly can’t believe how you thought this would be good for the majority of your players. Yes, people enjoyed skill hunting in GW1 but it could all be done solo. That’s the type of system you should have emulated and put in place: personal skill challenges that could be done whenever the player chose to do so.

I suppose maybe this is yet another push for players to use up their gold in order to try to make them buy gems and convert to gold and completely drain them of skill points.

What is wrong with simply doing the events you feel like doing because it is things you enjoy doing anyway? And paying Gold + skill points for the things you don’t?

PS: Unless you are a completionist as I am, do you need EVERY Trait? My understanding is, that many people look up a Build, and stick with that, maybe there are some options..but Mostly stick to the same Build , so 80 % of their game play can be summed up to a few traits, not ALL traits.

Most people also do either " Look at ALL the events you need to do to get ALL the traits OMG this is HORRIBLE!" or do " Look at How expensive this is if you buy ALL these traits with Gold + Skillpoints …This is HORRIBLE!"

As I see it, Most people will NOT take EVERY trait. Most people will do SOME events because it’s doing things they enjoy anyway, or consider worth the effort for the trait they get, and ,… Most people will use cash + Skillpoints to buy those traits they feel they want..but don’t feel like doing the content to unlock.

It’s only when you go to ALL EXTREMES that it seems Horrible. But come on…How many people will take ALL TRAITS and either ONLY Pay for ALL of them with cash…. One extreme, or… ONLY Unlock ALL traits with content…. the other???

It’s something people complain about quite often.
There’s aren’t enough trait options without having to jump through some flaming hoop, drenched in oil, while dangling on a tightrope over a pool of piranhas.

Then there’s build diversity. Of course people can dump gold on the npcs to get all the traits. Then you have those that don’t have the money to do it, in particular new players. More than likely they’ll look up the “best for xxx build” and only scrap those traits up needed and stick to their environment. That’s it. I’m not sure what anet was aiming for here.
Maybe by gating the traits behind tedious, arduous content, players would some how want to experiment…? I’m not seeing how this works out….

Right. Arenanet, please fix these traits. I have one level 80 and I have to mess around with all these trait things, and it is very confusing and adds all these elements to my playstyle. I feel like I have to invest in creating a balanced build or whatever. Luckily I have six alts who are under level 30 and with them I don’t hate to bother with any of that stuff. Keeps it simple. I hate to think. I just want to press 12345, F, move on.

Just remove these traits all together, because this is a really lame attempt at it. While you’re at it, could you change the game so that you don’t unlock any of your weapon skills except for the 1st one until you are level 75? That way I could just press 1 all the time and that’d be even better. Woah, I am so excited. I just know you guys will read this and implement it as soon as you can. Kisses to you all!

Drok Kindleshot.1496:

The read the wind mission takes place in ORR which is usually dead and requires some events to happen…..guess its there way of getting people to play in ORR because it has been dead for a long long time there…..good luck with that

The trait isn’t even worth what you go through to get it. Even buying it is to costly in skill pts if you ask me.. and you can’t even you use it with some other traits. This is a huge let down of the whole update. The old trait system was better.

TheDaiBish.9735:

Lobo Dela Noche.5127:

Am I the only one wondering why they used traits to get people out in the world rather skills, preferably new ones. Why go and fix something that wasn’t broken. If they would have worked on creating new skills and added them to world events and then removed the cost respect traits I am pretty sure everyone would be kittening ecstatic. Leave the old manuals for level 20, 40, and 60 unlocks and just add any new traits to the list. They could have added an npc near each event where players could by the new skills just like in GW1 to replace the gold sink they tried with traits. It just seems like the more obvious way to do things but then again it makes the game more like gw1 and they sure the hell can’t have any of that.

In an interview with MMORPG.com, they said:

• Skills take longer to implement (since it uses more assets [animations, art ect]).
• Skills already had a progression model (purchase with skill points), while the actual aquisition of Traits didn’t (since everything was automatically unlocked when you bought a Manual).

Its always scary when a developer doesn’t seem to understand the mechanics of a game. Traits had a better progression mode before the “feature” pack than they do now. The ability to skill at a certain level was bought. The traits were not just “automatically unlocked.” You had to level to fill those empty slots with traits. That was the progression. Now you just twiddle your thumbs for the first 30 levels. That’s NO progression.

It is what it is. If you make it less fun, you’ll know because less people will play. But you really should forgo the condescending rubbish that “this was to make the game less confusing.” If a player can figure out how to get to WvW or The Edge of the Mist, they can certainly hit a plus sign during the first 30 levels. The new system is less interesting, and for the life of me, I don’t know why you’d want to make it less interesting.

So anet I actually like the trait update. Not that the new traits are anything exceptional but I like the idea of exploring for all your traits.

Though I am sort of disappointed with a few things. You get all traits for all classes the same way. What does a warrior learn from conquering a temple of grenth? What does a mesmer learn from defeating a karka? It’s a good idea but it should have had different classes learn their traits by beating different enemies or finding different things. There are lots of areas in this game that you could draw attention to, like having a warrior go through the flame temple tombs to get one of their traits or have a necromancer have to defeat Veland to learn something for their traits. Seems like a missed opportunity to create a sense that you sought out these unique people or areas to learn these traits and drawing attention to those areas that some people don’t know that exist, and instead just choosing to make traits come from events everyone already does.

I also think it’s a little too late for an overhaul to traits like this since a lot of players arn’t going to see this system but I understand this isn’t for us, this is for the Chinese players who are new and will see these changes.

I think I like the trait update as well, for the most part.

The UI took me a moment to get used to, but I very much like the way major traits are displayed and quickly/easily selectable.

I also like the simplification of the points. Its just… easier.

I love, love, love the acquisition options for traits. I haven’t had a chance to really go out and get the new traits, but I like that the spyglass tells me where to find them so it’s simply a matter of ‘going’ and ‘doing’ it.

I’m still a little iffy about traits starting at 30, and about their reward spacing. I’m working on leveling a charr ranger atm, mid 50’s with her. It seems to be going ok, I haven’t noticed much of a difference in how I play or in difficulty, but I’m also not doing ‘at level’ story stuff yet. I’ll continue to evaluate as I play through with her, and the couple of others that I’m working on.

I always like new traits, the smaller numbers will take a little of getting used to as i’m still saying builds in the previous trait point amounts. Unlocking traits in the world is also an awesome idea.

My only issue is the UI. The removal of the drop-down menu on the major traits i think was a bad decision. Whereas before i could easily choose the traits with minimal cursor movements through the drop-down menu now i have to keep moving my cursor back and forth. It takes alot longer.

I occasionally accidentally switch the GM trait slot to a master or adept trait because the UI sticks to the specific trait slot until you click on another.

I very much would like the drop down menu back. Keep everything else the same but let me choose the traits like how we did before as it’s just quicker to do.

Nerelith.7360:

PS Sometimes What is best for a game, and what will make a player experience more fun…is counter-intuitive. The Mind says " this will make things harder for me therefore it’s bad." when in fact it will make things more challenging.

Sometimes More challenging makes something more fun, and makes achievements more meaningful, and therefore More memorable. It’s Like reading a drama…. or More appropriate…a HERO legend. That is who we are supposed to be In RPG’s a hero.

Anything that makes our achievements meaningful is good. Anything that ads challenge does this. Anything that makes any part of the game a cake walk, doesn’t.

PPS I hear a LOT of players talk about how they do Not like " grinding". I remember playing MMO’s before WoW was released. And back then there was a totally different meaning to the term “grind”. Let’s just say that what many new players call grinding… back then was called…. playing.

It seems many players that play MMO’s want it handed to them on a platter and do not really like playing.

Firstly, stop comparing GW2 to other MMOs of the past. They have no relevance here since we are not playing them. It’s just as useful as comparing GW2 to Pokemon, since we’re not playing that game either.

Secondly, the changes to the traits didn’t create a challenging and more fun playing environment. What they did is limit your build options and gate ALL of your traits behind various tasks. Now, instead of experimenting with traits (which is fun) starting at 11, we have to wait till 30. So fun is pushed back 20 levels.

And challenging? Anet even said they reduced the difficulty of everything in 1-79 zones to make up for the lack of traits. So there is no added challenge, just less variety.

And the argument that you can just buy the traits if you want is invalid in my opinion because their prices are ridiculous. Each and every trait requires 2-20 skill points and 10s-3g. That’s just nuts. Way more than trait manuals ever cost. The SP costs is counter-intuitive, since you need those as you’re leveling to unlock, ya know…SKILLS. Sure, vets have tons of extra SP and tomes sitting around. But altoholics and ahem, new players simply do not.

Adept trait 1: Complete your level 55 story.

Too high level.

Adept trait 2: Capture X, edge of the mists

Inappropriate forcing of PVP for super low level characters; luck based.

Adept trait 3: Map completion, Gendarren fields

Right level range, reward for effort stupidly bad.

Adept trait 4: Defeat event in Diessa Plateau

Reasonable!

Adept trait 5: zone completion, Blazeridge Steppes

Too high level, reward for effort very bad.

Adept trait 6: Defeat group event in Harathi Hinterlands

Reasonable level, relies on luck for spawning group event.

These are just the adept traits. They’re not newbie friendly at all and it’s better just to buy them. And yet a new character already has too many sinks for his skill points.

I’m.. seriously, like, look. I want to like the concept, but this implementation is not fleshed out and polished. I’m starting a new alt just to see this, but here’s the thing, okay? I’ve been gaming for 30 years. I don’t need empirical evidence to tell me this is going to be gross.

All in all, I like the trait update. Trait acquisition is neat; however, there should be more ways to acquire the same traits. GW1 had several bosses that had the same skill (in most cases – there were a few skills that were unique) and you could defeat any of them to skill capture. As I have nine level 80 characters, I cringe at the thought of waiting around for hours to fight all of these bosses nine times. I have neither the gold nor the skill points to purchase those grandmaster traits.

I wasted an hour last night at Lyssa trying to convince people that the defense event didn’t award the trait. They did it anyway and walked away mad that it didn’t give the trait. If the defense event is supposed to award the trait, then I’ll just consider this a bug. Otherwise this needs to be addressed, as this trait unlock requires the players to intentionally fail the defense event before they fight the Priestess of Lyssa.

Boss timers are a bad idea. This is a discussion for the other thread, but let me say that the Karka Queen, which spawns only three times a day, should not have been selected as one of the trait unlocks. It forces your players to log in at those specific times. Worse, if the player can’t log in at that time, they will never unlock that trait unless they shell out 3G + 20 skill points for every character. Not everyone is made of gold and skill points.

This doesn’t affect me in particular at the moment, but I see from the trait guide on the wiki that there are trait unlocks that require you to go into Obsidian Sanctum and Edge of the Mists, as well as get 100% completion of maps. While I like WvW, I’m pretty sure that there are people who don’t like it and don’t like being forced into doing it for a trait. I’m pretty sure there was a really similar discussion way back when GW2 had that achievement for Queen’s Jubilee in Obsidian Sanctum. Sure you don’t have to do it, but for completionists (like me), and for those who like to experiment with their builds, it’s a big turn off.

While the overall system has its faults (I don’t think anyone likes the fact that trait points start at level 30 now), I think there is definitely potential here. All my above points could be rectified if there were additional ways to unlock some of these traits. They don’t have to be easy; heck, you could put a trait unlock at the end of the Aetherblade Jumping Puzzle! I appreciate the diverse ways that you can unlock them, even if I don’t agree with it.