Guild Wars 2

This new trait system is really bad and is putting me off playing.

I have one lvl 80 and 3 alts, and now that I’ve had time to view how its all working out I really don’t think I’ll be playing as long as I thought I would be. Before the patch I was really enjoying it, I was looking forward to playing my alts even though they would be doing the same story’s, same area’s etc. But now when I think about that I think about the new grind that this trait system has brought, and I cant see myself playing much longer than a few weeks. I’m already thinking about DL’ing a new game, were as a few days ago I was still loving GW2.

The new gaps and the now slower leveling this system has brought will not help new players, that was just a bullkitten line they came out with as if to say “you have to think about the newbies, we’re doing it for them”, so people would feel more inclined to accept it. I can’t see them backing down on this new trait system and I can’t see myself enjoying it.

But it’s also how with this, and the daily’s it’s now obvious they are trying to force people into WvW/PvP and that has left a real sour taste in my mouth, especially after their “play how you want” statement.

To put traits behind content that is 10 to 44 levels ahead of your toon either shows that this content was very poorly thought out, or it was designed as a gold sink/gem store booster, again, something that doesn’t sit well with me.

I thought the patch was really well put together at first, (for me) it worked really smoothly, and I was even willing to accept the fact that now transmuting would cost triple the amount for toons under level 80 (I was going to buy a crap load of charges for my alts). But then I started to see how this patch was shafting all different kinds of players, from RP’ers losing their mixable outfits and being split apart (I’m not even an RP’er and never will be), to how daily’s were being affected. (EDIT: Also the laziness of the new terrible teleporting system, the new awful trice daily boss spawns and now mini stories/events are incomplete when the boss at the end doesn’t spawn because of the timer.) Giving us less does not equal more.

This is not a QQ post saying “I’m leaving” etc I’m just stating how unhappy I am about changes that have been forced on us, giving us less while saying it’s improving the game.

I really enjoy this game but I just see my interest waning a hell of a lot quicker.

The whole of this patch seems aimed at making the game a bit worse so they can try and squeeze a bit more cash out of us. This was such an awesome game, shame on you Anet.

Overall negative opinion of new trait system:

-Level 30 is too long to wait to get traits.
-The unlocks for traits are not relevant to the level range you unlock them.
See here: http://thepaletree.net/2014/04/19/trait-disappointment-a-followup/
Adept trait requiring Zone Completion of level 70 area. huh?
-New trait system combined with Megaservers has made unlocking the new GM traits a guessing game. Can’t tell if Lyssa is open, closed or being attacked? You either sit a character in the zone and keep checking or give up and buy the trait.
-This then ends up discouraging people away from what should be a fun addition to play.
-The populace that wasn’t spending trait points correctly before will likely not be bothering to unlock most traits, thus ending up all with the same build that uses the default free trait.

-On top of this, the new trait UI is clunkier than the old trait UI. It requires more clicks to assign traits than it did before, thus making build switching more of a pain.

So the the overall effect is that the new trait system has made character growth feel more grindy due to common use of Zone Completion tasks and the slower rate of attaining traits, and, as well, less free and open for new characters, and this along with the clunkier interface will discourage build experimentation among many players.

I just logged into my L51 Ele, spent my four trait points, saw that my trait build was much less exciting than it was before the patch, and logged out. For characters < L80 this is essentially reverse progression. It’s hard for me to justify playing a game where anything I’ve worked for is taken away, and even harder for me to recommend it to others.

The justification that getting traits one point at a time makes it easy to ruin a character doesn’t hold a lot of water when you have free out of combat respecs. Who cares if someone puts a point in the wrong place when it’s so easy to fix it?

I’m all for the addition of horizontal content to make the game more interesting at 80, but not at the cost of fun, rewarding progression to 80.

I really dislike what they did with the traits.
It puts me off leveling alts.

I dislike that some traits are locked behind group content and WvW content! (really anet?? I mean really???? What were you thinking?)
ALL traits should be acquirable solo. Just like skillpoints.

And I normally push “its an mmo, expect group content”. but not for things like this. I’m not even bothered hunting down the new traits. how many newbies and alt levelers are gonna bother hunting down traits at all and just take what they get/come across?
How does that help with your build diversity?

I like the ability to swap out traits whenever you want and the streamlined system of spending the equal of 5 points at once from the old system.

However, I can’t say I like the decreased trait points at earlier levels. Getting 1 trait point every few levels doesn’t bother me, but why do we only get 1 point starting at level 30 then 1 every 6 levels after that? And why the heck do we start getting double points at later levels?!

Why did you have to weaken lower levels? Why not hand out trait points like in the old system, which would be your first point at level 15 then another point every 5 levels after that?

What about WvW only players?

Anet: “Hey, complete Sparkfly Fen before you can choose a first tier trait!”.

Player: “F you” /uninstall.

Tying skills to map completion was a foolish idea.

WaveyDL.6945:

I only just got this game a few days ago and have managed to get to lvl 35.
My guy was going well and in most things I was having fun. But now he’s only got one trait point (not 25) and I feel like I took a giant step back.
I really liked the speed increase trait I had but I don’t think I can get it again until lvl 50? Did characters who are under 80 just get mega nerfed?

I agree with the whole ‘giant step back’, level 35 1 trait point and I feel as if I’ve achieved nothing, especially when there was absolutely nothing wrong with the way it was and at least you felt like you were progressing

*typing errors corrected

It really hurts new players and alts. What ever happened to not forcing players to play a certain way?

Jinroh.4251:

It really hurts new players and alts. What ever happened to not forcing players to play a certain way?

How exactly are you being forced when you have two options? Having options is the opposite of being forced.

I’ll join the crowd saying this is overall a bad change – being able to freely change trait allocation is wonderful, and I have no problem with going from 70 points to 14, but having trait access pushed back 20 levels across the board is really discouraging me from playing my two low-30’s alts, and there’s no way in hell I’m making any new ones after reading the list of trait unlocks under the new system.

Consider what you have to do to unlock just the 30 adept traits:
– 13 map completions; only three maps are between level 25 and 40, while another three are level 60-70, and one is 70-80.
– 5 open world group events/activities; two are sub-40, two are low 40’s, and one is level 58.
– 3 soloable things in the open world; two sub-40, one low 40’s
– 3 personal story steps; all level 50+
– 3 tower captures in EotM (if you’ve never done WvW, towers require groups)
– 2 story mode dungeons; one level 40, one level 50
– 1 WvW jumping puzzle

So out of the 30 adept traits, 10 require groups to complete, though I’ll admit the 3 EotM towers should be easy enough if you log in when your color has a good zerg going. But the bigger problem is that only 7 (11 if you count WvW) of the 30 are reasonably attainable by a player that hasn’t hit 40 yet, and only 5 (6 counting WvW) of those are soloable. Under the old system, a level 36 player could have 3 minors and 2 majors, with the full lineup of major adept traits to choose from – now, a new level 36 can have 1 minor and 1 major, with potentially 0 majors unlocked, and more than a third of their major adept traits locked behind content that you have to be 50+ in order to do. Didn’t anyone at ArenaNet notice how discouraging that looks to a newbie?

tl;dr – As long as the new list of unlock tasks remains in place, I cannot in good conscience recommend GW2 to any new player.

Tossing my opinions on the pile.

First up, the new trait interface is good. Maybe could use some polish, but ultimately makes more sense and is easier to use than the old system.

BUT!

Re-rolled my warrior (least valuable character to me) to try the ‘new character experience’ and I’m disappointed. I was a huge fan of skill hunting, etc. in Guild Wars 1 and so I liked the idea of going out and ‘earning’ your traits. Good idea, stick with it.

But man, the low level experience is junk. I popped an exp scroll to skip to 20, glad I did. Even then, 20-30 is dull. You get nothing. At all. Maybe some skill points, but by 20 you have most of the skills you want already. Yay 30, I get my elite! And TRAITS!

But then I looked at what was needed to unlock them. By the time I could use even ONE adept trait (level 36) I had the option of one map completion (the other two go up to 40 and wouldn’t be feasible for an average player), two explore puzzles and a couple champions that are part of events I’d need to wait around for. The traits that I WANTED were all locked behind level 50+ content. Not what I was expecting.

Now, from a 1-80 perspective, I can see how you could level to 80, buy ONLY the traits you REALLY WANTED and then once you’re 80 go back and unlock the others. This, however, is not fun. This is the grind-to-80-so-you-can-play-the-game mentality that WoW and other games have. It’s not a good mindset to get into, design-wise.

The problem is how the trait acquisition is balanced: adept traits really should be more attainable at lower levels. Completing level 70+ zones for traits is something I’d expect of Master or even Grandmaster traits.
There are traits that require WvW. Worse, there is the Obsidian Sanctum one. You know what’s there thanks to that requirement? A bunch of gankers, waiting to kill hapless pve characters who just want a biscuit-loving trait. Bad design to force PvP (WvW IS a form of pvp) on people.
There are traits that require timed, large-scale group events. These require luck or the ability to play whenever, and not everyone can show up on time to get in on those events.

End result: New players to the game who don’t have the gold to spend get the short end of the stick and will undoubtedly be frustrated. Old players who already have sufficient bank will just eat the cost because they can’t or won’t invest the time in trying to get lucky with the group events, wvw system, etc.

The trait system is a GOOD change. The trait REQUIREMENTS desperately need re-evaluation. If it’s not something you can solo, then it seriously needs to be changed to something that is merely a small group, like some champion that’s always/almost-always around, not the big events.
And definitely no PVP jumping puzzles where one enemy thief can ruin everyone’s day.

Being forced when you have two options -
sir – you must pay money and skillpoints or as a special option – you may wait till you hit level 70 and map an area for that skill even though you need that skill now in order to effectively reach 70.
its a bit like –
would you like the prawns you’re allergic to for dinner or the spinach that gives you the runs?
But keep bumping the thread bro.

I agree with the last few posts. Very well worded.

I’d also like to add that I think getting GM traits at lvl 80 is also a very bad idea. It slows the game right down and also surely you should have them from lvl 60 (the old system) to get used to it and find what works best with your style etc.

Please bring some of the old system back.

Talissa Chan.7208:

Being forced when you have two options -
sir – you must pay money and skillpoints or as a special option – you may wait till you hit level 70 and map an area for that skill even though you need that skill now in order to effectively reach 70.
its a bit like –
would you like the prawns you’re allergic to for dinner or the spinach that gives you the runs?
But keep bumping the thread bro.

Thing is, Both Options amount to the same thing….

Either… do the event or the map completion required…. ( Playing The Game)

or

Hunt down Skill points and Gold .. which is easy to earn just Playing the game ( Playing the game)

Seems that some people Just do not Like to play the game, and want things handed to them on a silver platter. I even spoke to someone I had a discussion with that disagreed with me, and after trying a Low level character told me that they liked having to do In game content to unlock traits instead of Just paying for a manual…. with all the new people On mega-server to help, it made it a communal experience again. Like an MMO should be.

I just got into a huge spat with some people in Arah.

Why?

Because I waited an hour and a half for the High Priest wanting to take back the gates. Then 2 people show up and defends the place. High Priest never shows.

This was repeated earlier today on 2 other servers. I ran out of server guesting.

I have to wait til somehow sometime there aren’t enough people on to defend the camp and the HP can attack again, and hope I’m there to kill him?
Otherwise, no trait Until when??

This is SO ridiculously griefer friendly, it’s not even funny.

First time in a long time, I ragequit the game. Because I just wasted an HOUR AND A HALF of my life, sitting there waiting for the kitten event to pop up and I can get my trait I need.

I will not spend the gold (enough with the stupid gold sinks!!) and the skill points to unlock the trait, because I don’t have much right now. Maybe I’ll have more in a week or two. But I needed that trait 2 hours ago!!

Anyway….

/angry

Nerelith.7360:

Talissa Chan.7208:

Being forced when you have two options -
sir – you must pay money and skillpoints or as a special option – you may wait till you hit level 70 and map an area for that skill even though you need that skill now in order to effectively reach 70.
its a bit like –
would you like the prawns you’re allergic to for dinner or the spinach that gives you the runs?
But keep bumping the thread bro.

Thing is, Both Options amount to the same thing….

Either… do the event or the map completion required…. ( Playing The Game)

or

Hunt down Skill points and Gold .. which is easy to earn just Playing the game ( Playing the game)

Seems that some people Just do not Like to play the game, and want things handed to them on a silver platter. I even spoke to someone I had a discussion with that disagreed with me, and after trying a Low level character told me that they liked having to do In game content to unlock traits instead of Just paying for a manual…. with all the new people On mega-server to help, it made it a communal experience again. Like an MMO should be.

The thing is, why do some of these requirements have to involve clearing a whole map and personal story? Do you know how many Events, Mini Dungeons, Jumping Puzzles, little nooks with interesting NPCs and other random content inside all of the low-mid and mid level zones? ArenaNets had hundreds of options to choose from that could easily had people out and about in the world, yet they went with the options that make players spends hours on content they may not even like doing. It gets to the point where some of these requirements feel like ArenaNet just wanting to turn them into currency sinks because they know some players wouldn’t want to go for the free way. It may have not been their intentions, but it comes across as such.

TriggerSad.2597:

Nerelith.7360:

Talissa Chan.7208:

Being forced when you have two options -
sir – you must pay money and skillpoints or as a special option – you may wait till you hit level 70 and map an area for that skill even though you need that skill now in order to effectively reach 70.
its a bit like –
would you like the prawns you’re allergic to for dinner or the spinach that gives you the runs?
But keep bumping the thread bro.

Thing is, Both Options amount to the same thing….

Either… do the event or the map completion required…. ( Playing The Game)

or

Hunt down Skill points and Gold .. which is easy to earn just Playing the game ( Playing the game)

Seems that some people Just do not Like to play the game, and want things handed to them on a silver platter. I even spoke to someone I had a discussion with that disagreed with me, and after trying a Low level character told me that they liked having to do In game content to unlock traits instead of Just paying for a manual…. with all the new people On mega-server to help, it made it a communal experience again. Like an MMO should be.

The thing is, why do some of these requirements have to involve clearing a whole map and personal story? Do you know how many Events, Mini Dungeons, Jumping Puzzles, little nooks with interesting NPCs and other random content inside all of the low-mid and mid level zones? ArenaNets had hundreds of options to choose from that could easily had people out and about in the world, yet they went with the options that make players spends hours on content they may not even like doing. It gets to the point where some of these requirements feel like ArenaNet just wanting to turn them into currency sinks because they know some players wouldn’t want to go for the free way. It may have not been their intentions, but it comes across as such.

No one is forcing you to complete maps. You can pay go to any map you want, Hunt down the skill points, and save up the gold…anywhere…. and Not have to complete the map.

As I said, BOTH options are Playing the game. You get to decide which options you want, and then…play the game.

Are you saying you dislike Playing the game?

Conceptually I have no problem with the change. The devil, however, is in the details. The idea of having to earn or find the traits in areas that are higher than what would be expected given the level at which you would expect to learn them (i.e., adept traits in high level areas) seems a bit “off.” I agree that going out and earning them…or paying gold for them seems like a good set of options. My only observations is that the options, especially for lower level toons, seem unrealistic (at least the earning part).

All of my ten characters are grandfathered so it is not an issue for them at all. I have two empty character slots at the moment…will likely just leave them sit and see if Anet does some tweaking to make this more reasonable.

Nerelith.7360:

Talissa Chan.7208:

Being forced when you have two options -
sir – you must pay money and skillpoints or as a special option – you may wait till you hit level 70 and map an area for that skill even though you need that skill now in order to effectively reach 70.
its a bit like –
would you like the prawns you’re allergic to for dinner or the spinach that gives you the runs?
But keep bumping the thread bro.

Thing is, Both Options amount to the same thing….

Either… do the event or the map completion required…. ( Playing The Game)

or

Hunt down Skill points and Gold .. which is easy to earn just Playing the game ( Playing the game)

Seems that some people Just do not Like to play the game, and want things handed to them on a silver platter. I even spoke to someone I had a discussion with that disagreed with me, and after trying a Low level character told me that they liked having to do In game content to unlock traits instead of Just paying for a manual…. with all the new people On mega-server to help, it made it a communal experience again. Like an MMO should be.

I think what most people are taking offensive to isn’t needing to play the game – most of us love love love the idea of unlocking traits for completing content. The issue really seems to be what specifically was chosen. Some of this content is simply not playable by characters of the targeted level – see common citing of Frostgorge map complete (which you really do need to be like 78 to do for an average player) – for a level 36 trait. Even the level 40 map completes are difficult for an average person playing a medium or light armor profession at 36.

The other part is being given the option of either a game mode we hate and get reprimanded for for (trust me you do not want me showing up in WvW) or spending gold (which I don’t have because I’m still working on ascended crafting). Let us get a trait from level-appropriate PvE OR WvW OR trait manuals.

I’m also realizing that this system will be a problem for learning how to play a profession for the first time. If you can’t freely mix traits early on, you’ll be able to learn less quickly what system works best for you. If by level 60 I only have seven major traits unlocked across four lines, I won’t be able to try a new combo myself. I’ll have to rely solely on the guidance of other players and play towards a known working build. It discourages self-discovery and reinforces a cookie cutting mentality.

Nerelith.7360:

TriggerSad.2597:

Nerelith.7360:

Talissa Chan.7208:

Being forced when you have two options -
sir – you must pay money and skillpoints or as a special option – you may wait till you hit level 70 and map an area for that skill even though you need that skill now in order to effectively reach 70.
its a bit like –
would you like the prawns you’re allergic to for dinner or the spinach that gives you the runs?
But keep bumping the thread bro.

Thing is, Both Options amount to the same thing….

Either… do the event or the map completion required…. ( Playing The Game)

or

Hunt down Skill points and Gold .. which is easy to earn just Playing the game ( Playing the game)

Seems that some people Just do not Like to play the game, and want things handed to them on a silver platter. I even spoke to someone I had a discussion with that disagreed with me, and after trying a Low level character told me that they liked having to do In game content to unlock traits instead of Just paying for a manual…. with all the new people On mega-server to help, it made it a communal experience again. Like an MMO should be.

The thing is, why do some of these requirements have to involve clearing a whole map and personal story? Do you know how many Events, Mini Dungeons, Jumping Puzzles, little nooks with interesting NPCs and other random content inside all of the low-mid and mid level zones? ArenaNets had hundreds of options to choose from that could easily had people out and about in the world, yet they went with the options that make players spends hours on content they may not even like doing. It gets to the point where some of these requirements feel like ArenaNet just wanting to turn them into currency sinks because they know some players wouldn’t want to go for the free way. It may have not been their intentions, but it comes across as such.

No one is forcing you to complete maps. You can pay go to any map you want, Hunt down the skill points, and save up the gold…anywhere…. and Not have to complete the map.

As I said, BOTH options are Playing the game. You get to decide which options you want, and then…play the game.

Are you saying you dislike Playing the game?

As I tried to point out, a large chunk of this content is level-gated. We don’t have the /option/ to play the game in those cases and are /forced/ to spend money.

Tonight, I attempted to earn the last Grandmaster trait for my Engineer.

Little did I know that this would be a fruitless effort because Malchor’s Leap, a map that is not listed on the Megaserver update thread, has had the Megaserver system applied to it. I know because A) there was an abnormally high population, enough to have captured both the temple of Dwayna and the temple of Lyssa, and B ) when I checked the Looking For Group tool, it showed an ellipsis (…) instead of my current world (Stormbluff Isle).

So, I found myself unable to do the Temple of Lyssa event in order to defeat the Risen Priestess of Lyssa for my trait unlock.

Not only that, but it turns out that you can’t even get the trait from defending the temple, so the large number of people waiting around for the event, most of whom probably didn’t do the research, were ultimately waiting around for an event that they may or may not know they want to fail.

My alternative to sitting there and waiting for this horrible griefer-bait? Spending the majority of the current gold in my wallet on the trait because I am still working on crafting my ascended equipment.

With no way to trigger the event and no way of knowing when it will be available, the task becomes virtually impossible to complete. And now I’ve learned that many of the Adept level traits for new characters are practically impossible to obtain until many levels AFTER the point at which they would be available? This is in no way alt-friendly, and so incredibly unfriendly to new players that I am awe-struck at the lack of forethought that has gone into this system. Clearly, there needed to be more in-house stress testing before rolling out the Megaserver and this new Trait system in the same update. Neither of them seems yet ready for prime time.

New players won’t have the gold or the absurd amount of skill points needed to get their traits. Unless they’re selling skill points in the gem store now, I doubt throwing real money at the game will allow players to buy their new shiny traits. It costs 15 gold to unlock all the grandmaster level traits AND 100 skill points if you don’t do the events and that is not a small fee. Half my characters barely have 15 skill points. And if you don’t want to spend the time unlocking the traits it costs you a whopping 43 gold and 360 skill points. I can put up with the gold cost for maybe one character before I’m broke, but the skill point cost is absurd. My main doesn’t even have 200 skill points, but this is more because I like to create alts.

I just wish they added more options to earn these traits than “Go here and do this event”. I feel like I’m a broken record now, but diversity is always good. Without different options to earn the same trait, it just turns the game into an eternal waiting game for the events to trigger, especially in Orr, where I have no idea when the temples or the Risen Wizard is going to be up. In addition, you’re stuck praying for an event to FAIL and for nobody to grief you (Risen Wizard and Lyssa – and no, the defense event at Lyssa does NOT give the trait, this only works for Grenth and Melandru). I only managed to unlock the Risen Wizard trait twice by being lucky and logging in just as the event started. I am literally parking my characters in Orr waiting for the Gates of Arah event to fail so we can take it again. It’s not like I can go anywhere else as the events are completed in such a short period of time that in the time it takes me to waypoint in and run to the location, it might already be finished.

Karka Queen was completed in FOUR minutes the last time I did it with the gigantic zerg that was parking in her driveway. If you missed it, it is a nine hour wait for the next time she will spawn. This is totally NOT acceptable.

In a game where we have so many different options and playstyles, why are we restricted in our trait acquisition to doing just one thing? Yes, playing the game is the point and getting people to experience different parts of the game is great, but this is forcing the players to play the game a certain way in order to unlock their traits. A re-calibration of how the traits are awarded (Finish A Light in the Darkness a level 55 story quest for an Adept trait?!?) is definitely needed, especially if they keep it this way.

The funny thing is before this update I was actually contemplating getting another character slot, now I don’t think I will.

It’s not so much that people dislike playing the game. If we did, none of us would be here. Different people play the game different ways and so there should be different methods of acquiring the traits instead of railroading people into WvW or stuck waiting around for the next time an event happens.

Nerelith.7360:

No one is forcing you to complete maps. You can pay go to any map you want, Hunt down the skill points, and save up the gold…anywhere…. and Not have to complete the map.

As I said, BOTH options are Playing the game. You get to decide which options you want, and then…play the game.

Are you saying you dislike Playing the game?

That’s specious.

The word for what you term “hunt(ing) down the skill points, and sav(ing) up the gold” is “grinding”. So called because it’s repetitious, often hard work and frequently not particularly enjoyable. And in this case, without those skills, the game you get to play while you’re doing it is harder, blander and generally less fun than it was before.

So, yes, a lot of people will, as you term it, “dislike Playing the game”. If merely “Playing the game” was sufficient reward on its own, independent of any considerations of game quality, no-one would be bothering to have this discussion.

Nynuwe.5893:

DavidH.7380:

I couldn’t read all 9 pages, but after reading halfway through it occurred to me that there is a really significant difference between the experience of a new player and a new character. As a new player, there is a world of stuff to figure out in the first 40 levels, as you really have no idea how the game works at all and you are busy figuring out such simple stuff as repairs, where to go in the world, karma vendors, crafting, map completion bonuses, travel, the auction house, the bank… it is all shiny and new and overwhelming. Not having to deal with traits until later may be an advantage for those truly new players.

However, when you are leveling your third or fourth alt there isn’t much new anymore other than the new class mechanics and traits to play with. I don’t think gating the experience is nearly as important for these players on new characters. I really like the idea of vendors that only sell account bound items to max level characters that allow them to move through some of this stuff more quickly. Maybe you buy and send a “tome of knowledge” to your alt that teaches them 5 trait points in advance. Or an item that grants bonuses to experience and heart quest completion so your alt levels and little faster and moves through the heart completion quests a little quicker the second time through. That way, repeat players get the streamlined experience and incentive to roll alts while the new player get the unaltered experience Anet had in mind. That could make both sides reasonably happy.

Just how careful were you to read the reviews given by new players? Already various new players came here to express their dissatisfaction. They felt nerfed. They felt confused by this change. But not a single one of them complained about the old trait system being “overwhelming”. Please do take the time to read a few more pages if you actually wish to read the reviews given by new players.

When I was new the trait system did not overwhelm me at all. Why would it? It just requires reading. I looked at the Trait window and started reading. Then some clicking. The in-game tool tips also helped because… I read them. Reading. That’s what it takes. Being new to a game should not stop you from taking your time to read tool tips and read what can be found on screen. Do you think it is unfair to expect new players to read?

At this point I am convinced that the dev’s tired old “But we just want to make it easier for the new players” excuse is nothing short of a scapegoat to appease the masses.

PS: I’m sorry if that sounded harsh, I’m just really shocked by the idea someone would be “overwhelmed” by traits. Especially given that at this point, most players have already become acquainted with the concept of “traits” in other games Not just MMOs, but some solo RPGs as well. The concept and theory behind traits as part of character progression is really not unique. So the number of new players who would disregard reading and are unacquainted with the concept of traits as part of character progression are an extreme minority. Does such a low population merit a change that negatively affects the rest? Again, as I’ve said… the whole “But we are doing it for the new players!” is really just a huge scapegoat.

If you notice, I didn’t actually make the argument that Anet was correct. I was merely pointing out that while Anet may have an idea of how new players should be introduced to traits, and we can probably agree that new players have a lot of other new things to explore before level 30, the kinds of concerns given as the reasons for the change don’t really apply to alts. Therefore, even if Anet thinks this is good for new players, perhaps we would have a better chance of them reconsidering it for new characters…. like the insta-leveling scrolls that would never be allowed for new players.

I have 33 characters. I’m glad they all got grandfathered so I don’t have to unlock all the older traits. I’ve wanted to reroll some of them to experience this new way of levelling, but now I don’t feel motivated to do that at all. It’s bad enough an experience that I have to grind out the 5*33 new traits.

The change in cost to trait acquisition is absurd, and I don’t envy new players. Before, it was “play how you want” to get to 80, and you get all traits with 3g10s. Now, it’s “play exactly what we tell you to” to get your traits, else “play how you want” and level a few hundred times to earn those 360 skill points and 43g to buy your traits (and then you still need to grind more skill points because you also need them to buy utility skills).

The trait-hunting concept is fine, but the implementation can surely be improved.

- the tasks should be tied to content of appropriate level, as many have suggested.
- the tasks are entirely irrelevant to their associated traits. What has killing this boss or capping that tower anything to do with the trait I just learned? Nothing at all.
- the tasks should be tailored and different for every profession, such that a player levelling different professions get directed to experience different content, instead of the exact same content everytime.
- the tasks should teach or demonstrate some things about their associated traits. For example, a dredge boss converts conditions on him and his allies into boons every time he hits his gong and pep-talks his comrades, and upon his defeat my Guardian learns Pure of Voice. I just want some relevance.
- and along with profession-specific tasks, the trait unlocks should then be account bound. People who play only one of each profession (or less) would still need to unlock every trait on every character since they would all require different tasks across different professions, but for people who roll extras of the same profession afterwards, it would be a major QOL improvement. It’s ok to demand effort from the players’ end, but please be realistic and reasonable with how much of it is required.

IMO, the current implementation isn’t really fun, especially since all the associated tasks are old content that I have always had access to and have already done many times.

BAWW.8104:

I have 33 characters. I’m glad they all got grandfathered so I don’t have to unlock all the older traits. I’ve wanted to reroll some of them to experience this new way of levelling, but now I don’t feel motivated to do that at all. It’s bad enough an experience that I have to grind out the 5*33 new traits.

The change in cost to trait acquisition is absurd, and I don’t envy new players. Before, it was “play how you want” to get to 80, and you get all traits with 3g10s. Now, it’s “play exactly what we tell you to” to get your traits, else “play how you want” and level a few hundred times to earn those 360 skill points and 43g to buy your traits (and then you still need to grind more skill points because you also need them to buy utility skills).

The trait-hunting concept is fine, but the implementation can surely be improved.

- the tasks should be tied to content of appropriate level, as many have suggested.
- the tasks are entirely irrelevant to their associated traits. What has killing this boss or capping that tower anything to do with the trait I just learned? Nothing at all.
- the tasks should be tailored and different for every profession, such that a player levelling different professions get directed to experience different content, instead of the exact same content everytime.
- the tasks should teach or demonstrate some things about their associated traits. For example, a dredge boss converts conditions on him and his allies into boons every time he hits his gong and pep-talks his comrades, and upon his defeat my Guardian learns Pure of Voice. I just want some relevance.
- and along with profession-specific tasks, the trait unlocks should then be account bound. People who play only one of each profession (or less) would still need to unlock every trait on every character since they would all require different tasks across different professions, but for people who roll extras of the same profession afterwards, it would be a major QOL improvement. It’s ok to demand effort from the players’ end, but please be realistic and reasonable with how much of it is required.

IMO, the current implementation isn’t really fun, especially since all the associated tasks are old content that I have always had access to and have already done many times.

Man, I don’t know how you’re going to do it with 33 characters. I have 9 and it was already a chore the first time around. Best of luck buddy. I totally agree with you that the traits should tie into appropriate tasks and also be account bound per class.

Your post actually gave me an idea. What if we got specific missions or short stories that tie into our traits? How cool would it be if we got mini-missions that not only tied into our personal storylines but also tie into what our traits are and what they do?

Say you’re a Charr Guardian and you want the trait “Strength in Numbers” and mini-mission has you directing your warband (remember them?) in an assault against a Flame Legion stronghold. Or an Asura Engineer conducting a test run of their “Experimental Turrets” with Zojja or their starting krewe? The possibilities are endless.

Now I regret not leveling my Mesmer and Thief to 80 before the patch…
WTH are you thinking devs? Is all that suppose to make the game more FUN now?
What’s the rationale behind all these changes?

Felessan said it best:

“The new unlock system is almost amazing in how badly it executes a wonderful idea.”

Couldn’t be more true.

Myself – not a huge gamer; the last time I logged on was over a week ago. However, when logging on today, was surprised by the fact that I needed to either spend a pile of money and skill points to get basic 80-level bits all over again, or make a HUGE investment of time to achieve the same thing.

The catch is, I’m the opposite of BAWW (though he makes some excellent points and suggestions!). I’ve played for a good while now, but only have ONE toon. That’s it. NO desire to play any others! And I play exclusively WvW. I HATE leveling. I HATE world content. I can barely stand guild bounties and rushes; I think most of it is just giant waste of time….and I couldn’t care less about anything other than just mashing down opponents on the field. So this patch to me, is a huge issue….those skill points are much better used for siege and crafting, as is the money.

Don’t get me wrong; I love that Anet has developed a game that increases rewards with the amount and effort of play. Problem is, we’ve moved into a whole new realm where you need time-based ‘loot’ from leveling (gold and SP)….in order to level an 80 to it’s top (?) level. However, being essentially forced into the PvE setting to claim what already should be available to an 80-level character is ridiculous at best. More variety in the accumulation of these traits is definitely necessary, because not everyone has the desire to complete the specific events. Not everybody has the money. Not everybody has the time to achieve all this, in order to play again at the ‘top’ level, even though they’ve previously achieved that status.

It’s a bit disappointing to be told that essentially everything we’ve invested for time and money to get to 80, develop our toons, etc……well that just ain’t good enough anymore. Gotta roll single file down the line like cattle and all do the same stupid world events – or blow the cash – in order to get the basic stuff for an 80-level toon. The BASIC stuff! Stuff we already HAD!

If a future expansion for GW2 raises the level, and we are REQUIRED to do this PvE crap to get our basic traits….I’m more likely to just abandon the game altogether. I hate to sound all bitter and whatnot, but it’s just not why I play…..they seem to have forgotten that there are people who DON’T appreciate certain aspects of the game – we don’t do dungeons, events, temples…any of that stuff, and we already pay for it through a lack of variety in loot. Yes, it’d be nice to spend 14 hours a day exploring, keeping up with the latest events…all that junk. But some people just want to blobmash, fire a treb, and nuke a roamer here and there. We don’t all live at our computers; time is a precious commodity!

I can’t offer much for suggestions, because I’m not great at this game, but I have seen some excellent ones in a few previous posts.. I like the idea of final traits possibly being tied to character storyline, but at the same time, I HATE doing storyline stuff, because it never involves WvW or PvP. If it did every now and then, I’d be all over it!

No hard feelings though – just some thoughts, and a bit of disappointment. I think that there was a serious lack of consideration for ALL play styles in this particular case.

There are traits for new toons that require WvW? How does that work?

Is that why I’ve been one-shotting a lot of upscaled players recently in WvW?

Nerelith.7360:

Jinroh.4251:

It really hurts new players and alts. What ever happened to not forcing players to play a certain way?

How exactly are you being forced when you have two options? Having options is the opposite of being forced.

charging sp is hardly a choice for new players.

Being forced “find them in group/WvW content” or pay for them, is not really choice.

Liah.8324:

…when logging on today, was surprised by the fact that I needed to either spend a pile of money and skill points to get basic 80-level bits all over again, or make a HUGE investment of time to achieve the same thing.

The catch is, I’m the opposite of BAWW (though he makes some excellent points and suggestions!). I’ve played for a good while now, but only have ONE toon. That’s it. NO desire to play any others!

If you only plan to play your existing level 80, you’re pretty much in the clear; you already have all the major and minor traits unlocked (with the exception of 1 new GM trait per line, that you may or may not want anyway). All you have to do is go through and re-allocate the points. First and foremost it’s brand new characters that this is a disaster for (and especially the brand new characters of brand new players).

felessan.9587:

Nerelith.7360:

TriggerSad.2597:

Nerelith.7360:

Talissa Chan.7208:

Being forced when you have two options -
sir – you must pay money and skillpoints or as a special option – you may wait till you hit level 70 and map an area for that skill even though you need that skill now in order to effectively reach 70.
its a bit like –
would you like the prawns you’re allergic to for dinner or the spinach that gives you the runs?
But keep bumping the thread bro.

Thing is, Both Options amount to the same thing….

Either… do the event or the map completion required…. ( Playing The Game)

or

Hunt down Skill points and Gold .. which is easy to earn just Playing the game ( Playing the game)

Seems that some people Just do not Like to play the game, and want things handed to them on a silver platter. I even spoke to someone I had a discussion with that disagreed with me, and after trying a Low level character told me that they liked having to do In game content to unlock traits instead of Just paying for a manual…. with all the new people On mega-server to help, it made it a communal experience again. Like an MMO should be.

The thing is, why do some of these requirements have to involve clearing a whole map and personal story? Do you know how many Events, Mini Dungeons, Jumping Puzzles, little nooks with interesting NPCs and other random content inside all of the low-mid and mid level zones? ArenaNets had hundreds of options to choose from that could easily had people out and about in the world, yet they went with the options that make players spends hours on content they may not even like doing. It gets to the point where some of these requirements feel like ArenaNet just wanting to turn them into currency sinks because they know some players wouldn’t want to go for the free way. It may have not been their intentions, but it comes across as such.

No one is forcing you to complete maps. You can pay go to any map you want, Hunt down the skill points, and save up the gold…anywhere…. and Not have to complete the map.

As I said, BOTH options are Playing the game. You get to decide which options you want, and then…play the game.

Are you saying you dislike Playing the game?

As I tried to point out, a large chunk of this content is level-gated. We don’t have the /option/ to play the game in those cases and are /forced/ to spend money.

No one is forced to spend Money. You do not need to have the adept traits by level 36. You can easilly do content of your level without a single trait.

you want, to do not need. if you do not have those traits it’s not Like you will fail 100 % of the time, you won’t even fail 5 % of the time.

You do not need a single trait, thereofre no one is forcing you. You are the one chosing to spend the money, to get the adept traits by level 36.

I have waited a few days in order to try the changes out before commenting, to give them a test rather than jump in straight away.

But I could give the new system a year, 2 years or more and it still won’t change my opinion on how awful it is. There is a few problems with the new system and more so it basically destroyed the levelling diversity that was once had. Maybe this was the reason for the change so that you cannot craft your way to lvl 80 and have everything you want. But previously when levelling my alt I could craft some levels, I could quest some levels, I could even dive in and do some WvW and zerg some levels and at the end of the day once I hit that magic spot I bought a book and got my traits. I never felt like I was any worse off because I wanted to try out the other content that the game provides but now you do feel like you are being punished.

I could choose how to level the way I wanted each day depending on what I felt like doing and not be any worse off for it. This current system if I craft levels I miss out on traits, if I go into WvW im as useful as an ashtray on a motorbike and I still miss out on traits. Not only is your character worse off but your now being gated into certain content, being shepherded around like sheep to set content. I had the choice before what map I wanted to level in, what events to do and not to do and I was not any worse off for my character build.

But despite the new traits being linked to events that at some levels are not viable for your character’s current level, they have also taken away any little bit of progression you get to feel by altering when you gain trait points. I really do not envy new players coming into the game as gaining a new trait point every level may not seem like much but its those little things that set small objectives for you whilst levelling. Now levelling feels very stagnant and levelling now feels more like a chore because that little bit of progression has been taken away and as such when you level up you go…….what did I get?……oh that’s right nothing….I need to wait another x many before my next trait point.

I do have alts but I have no desire whatsoever to log in with them and level them up under this new system. For me I never had a problem with the old system and levelling methods and for me this new way is a large step in the wrong direction.

I took the time to figure out mathematically How many different combinations there are of aquiring traits, for the sake of simplicity and since I am Not a mathematicion, and had to figure it out with pencil, and a few pieces of paper, I calculated How many different ways there are to pay for the 5 NEW grandmaster traits only.

Of course if you add the master and adept traits the number oc combinations increases. If anyone is a mathematician and wishes to do this as a mental exercise we can see exactly how many different combinations there are of paying for all the traits.

I made some assumptions, I assumed that some players may only want one trait, some may want 2, some three, some 4 and some all 5.

I also assumed that not all would pick 100 % of one or 100 % of the other manner to pay for it, but may mix, and match….

maybe Lines 1 and 4 are done as events and maybe 23, and 5 are paid for with cash and skill points etc…

there are 5 traits and 2 different ways to pay for those traits:
I used the following website

http://www.mathsisfun.com/combinatorics/combinations-permutations-calculator.html

which gave me the following formula for figuring how to group n items taken in groups of r:

Number of cominations = n!/[(n-r)!x(r!)]

so I used that to figure out How to group 5 items taken at 1, 2, 3, 4 and 5 at a time… came up with :

5C1 + 5C2+ 5C3 + 5C4 + 5C5 =

5 + 10 + 10 + 5 + 1= 31

then we get complicated, since there are 2 different ways of paying for each combination… and this at this point is beyond my ability to calculate.

all I Know is.."The true Number of combinations of paying for all the NEW grandmaster traits since you can either 1. do events or 2. pay with skillpoints and gold " > 31.

But assume there are only 32, even though we KNOW it is gonna be a Lot more than 32. if anyone would Like to work up the math i would appreciate a math lesson in IM :P

That means there are at LEAST 32 Possible combinations on how to aquire one, any or all the new grandmaster traits…..

then add in the master, and the adept… and I have to wonder…

FORCE = lack of Options.

…

This seems to be plenty of options.

Nerelith.7360:

I took the time to figure out mathematically How many different combinations there are of aquiring traits, for the sake of simplicity and since I am Not a mathematicion, and had to figure it out with pencil, and a few pieces of paper, I calculated How many different ways there are to pay for the 5 NEW grandmaster traits only.

Of course if you add the master and adept traits the number oc combinations increases. If anyone is a mathematician and wishes to do this as a mental exercise we can see exactly how many different combinations there are of paying for all the traits.

I made some assumptions, I assumed that some players may only want one trait, some may want 2, some three, some 4 and some all 5.

I also assumed that not all would pick 100 % of one or 100 % of the other manner to pay for it, but may mix, and match….

maybe Lines 1 and 4 are done as events and maybe 23, and 5 are paid for with cash and skill points etc…

there are 5 traits and 2 different ways to pay for those traits:
I used the following website

http://www.mathsisfun.com/combinatorics/combinations-permutations-calculator.html

which gave me the following formula for figuring how to group n items taken in groups of r:

Number of cominations = n!/[(n-r)!x(r!)]

so I used that to figure out How to group 5 items taken at 1, 2, 3, 4 and 5 at a time… came up with

5 + 10 + 10 + 5 + 1= 31

then we get complicated, since there are 2 different ways of paying for each combination… and this at this point is beyond my ability to calculate.

all I Know is.."The true Number of combinations of paying for all the NEW grandmaster traits since you can either 1. do events or 2. pay with skillpoints and gold " > 31.

But assume there are only 32, even though we KNOW it is gonna be a Lot more than 32. if anyone would Like to work up the math i would appreciate a math lesson in IM :P

That means there are at LEAST 32 Possible combinations on how to aquire one, any or all the new grandmaster traits…..

then add in the master, and the adept… and I have to wonder…

FORCE = lack of Options.

…

This seems to be plenty of options.

Ok, the mental acrobatics are getting silly.
In the case of each trait you only have 2 options: you either do the task given which is in some cases is completely inappropiate in respective to the level of the player (WvW, higher lvl content then the moment of aquistion) or too time consuming (map completion on 12 maps…maybe more don’t qoute me on this) or you pay for it (new players haven’t got much in the way of funds). That’s it.

AlexEBT.7240:

Nerelith.7360:

I took the time to figure out mathematically How many different combinations there are of aquiring traits, for the sake of simplicity and since I am Not a mathematicion, and had to figure it out with pencil, and a few pieces of paper, I calculated How many different ways there are to pay for the 5 NEW grandmaster traits only.

Of course if you add the master and adept traits the number oc combinations increases. If anyone is a mathematician and wishes to do this as a mental exercise we can see exactly how many different combinations there are of paying for all the traits.

I made some assumptions, I assumed that some players may only want one trait, some may want 2, some three, some 4 and some all 5.

I also assumed that not all would pick 100 % of one or 100 % of the other manner to pay for it, but may mix, and match….

maybe Lines 1 and 4 are done as events and maybe 23, and 5 are paid for with cash and skill points etc…

there are 5 traits and 2 different ways to pay for those traits:
I used the following website

http://www.mathsisfun.com/combinatorics/combinations-permutations-calculator.html

which gave me the following formula for figuring how to group n items taken in groups of r:

Number of cominations = n!/[(n-r)!x(r!)]

so I used that to figure out How to group 5 items taken at 1, 2, 3, 4 and 5 at a time… came up with

5 + 10 + 10 + 5 + 1= 31

then we get complicated, since there are 2 different ways of paying for each combination… and this at this point is beyond my ability to calculate.

all I Know is.."The true Number of combinations of paying for all the NEW grandmaster traits since you can either 1. do events or 2. pay with skillpoints and gold " > 31.

But assume there are only 32, even though we KNOW it is gonna be a Lot more than 32. if anyone would Like to work up the math i would appreciate a math lesson in IM :P

That means there are at LEAST 32 Possible combinations on how to aquire one, any or all the new grandmaster traits…..

then add in the master, and the adept… and I have to wonder…

FORCE = lack of Options.

…

This seems to be plenty of options.

Ok, the mental acrobatics are getting silly.
In the case of each trait you only have 2 options: you either do the task given which is in some cases is completely inappropiate in respective to the level of the player (WvW, higher lvl content then the moment of aquistion) or too time consuming (map completion on 12 maps…maybe more don’t qoute me on this) or you pay for it (new players haven’t got much in the way of funds). That’s it.

I respectfully disagree, you state opinions… I used math.
and…

Math trumps opinion any day. And twice on Sunday.

Nerelith.7360:

I respectfully disagree, you state opinions… I used math.
and…

Math trumps opinion any day. And twice on Sunday.

No, the only thing you did was show the amount of combinations you can make in respective to aquiring the traits under the new system. That doesn’t however invalidate the fact that for every trait you want to aquire you have only 2 methods to do so: the task given or buying it.

Nerelith.7360:

<snip>

This seems to be plenty of options.

I get it, you really like the new system and it has been proven by the numerous posts in this thread you have done advocating it. The thing is some of us do not like this new system and thats our opinion and the thing about opinions is that everyone has one.

Does it make your enjoyment of the game any less by us disliking it?……nope. I have stated why I dislike the system and I understand that you like the system. For those of us who dislike the system we have stated the reasons why we dislike the system. But constantly posting trying to alters people’s opinions just because it differs from you is wrong.

I dislike brussel sprouts, it doesn’t matter how you try to mix them up, alter them I will still always dislike brussel sprouts. I dont need someone trying to force brussel sprouts down my throat just because they enjoy them and I dont. That is the way your posts are coming accross, I understand that you disagree with alot of the posts in this thread but no matter what you put I am still going to dislike this new system because that is my opinion and im entitled to it whether you agree with it or not.

I hope you have fun with the new system levelling but myself I would rather not put myself through what the new system brings.

I like the new trait system in PvE, it gives PvE world a purpose.

But, this should never be in PvP in the first place.

Scarran.9845:

Nerelith.7360:

<snip>
This seems to be plenty of options.

I get it, you really like the new system and it has been proven by the numerous posts in this thread you have done advocating it. The thing is some of us do not like this new system and thats our opinion and the thing about opinions is that everyone has one.

Does it make your enjoyment of the game any less by us disliking it?……nope. I have stated why I dislike the system and I understand that you like the system. For those of us who dislike the system we have stated the reasons why we dislike the system. But constantly posting trying to alters people’s opinions just because it differs from you is wrong.

I dislike brussel sprouts, it doesn’t matter how you try to mix them up, alter them I will still always dislike brussel sprouts. I dont need someone trying to force brussel sprouts down my throat just because they enjoy them and I dont. That is the way your posts are coming accross, I understand that you disagree with alot of the posts in this thread but no matter what you put I am still going to dislike this new system because that is my opinion and im entitled to it whether you agree with it or not.

I hope you have fun with the new system levelling but myself I would rather not put myself through what the new system brings.

I Misunderstand. So you who dislike the system, get to come On the forums to say you dislike the system. And the devs will read that you dislike the system, and new players will read opinions like " we are FORCED to play the way Anet says."

But when I come on and share mine, somehow that is me trying to force you to believe as i do?

I respectfully disagree. I could make the same argument and say that you will never convince me, so stop posting.

I am not Posting for you anyway. I am simply saying " I Like the new system." and I am saying it so that the devs see that some players can appreciate what they did here, and that it’s Not ALL people hating it, just a Bunch of vocal people.

It is estimated that only 3 to 5 % of players Post on the forums. it is also known that most of the people that post are not pleased by some aspect of the game, so complainers on the forums are out of proportion to people that are happy with given changes.

I am simply here, speaking as a person that likes the changes. Your post seems to imply that since I will never convince you, nor any of those that dislike the system, i should shut up, and go my merry way.

That isn’t what you are saying is it? maybe I misunderstood you?

Lostyus.4250:

This new trait system is really bad and is putting me off playing.

…..
To put traits behind content that is 10 to 44 levels ahead of your toon either shows that this content was very poorly thought out, or it was designed as a gold sink/gem store booster, again, something that doesn’t sit well with me……

I think a major point of this feature pack was to throttle gold and boost the gem store. No crying here, I figure I already got my $30 of fun. I was doing nothing but alts – I had 6 alts up to lvl 30, but now I have NO interest in playing them. I’ll check back periodically and if major changes are made in trait system, I’ll start leveling alts again. If not, I’ll get a whole lot more fresh air Maybe that was the point To get more people off of their computer and outside for spring?

Ok, I finally got around to looking at the list of activities that unlock specific traits.

Although I have spoken, read and written the English language for well over 50 of my 60 years of life, my command of my native tongue fails me in arriving at a sufficiently negative characterization of just how appalled I am at the choices made for the tasks needed for unlocking of traits, most particularly at the adept level.

Where is the list showing how to unlock all the traits, not just the new grandmaster ones?

EDIT: I couldn’t find a list of how to unlock all the traits here so googled and found it at dulfy.net.

felessan.9587:

I’m also realizing that this system will be a problem for learning how to play a profession for the first time. If you can’t freely mix traits early on, you’ll be able to learn less quickly what system works best for you. If by level 60 I only have seven major traits unlocked across four lines, I won’t be able to try a new combo myself. I’ll have to rely solely on the guidance of other players and play towards a known working build. It discourages self-discovery and reinforces a cookie cutting mentality.

So true, and as I’ve said before, that is why I don’t believe their crap about this helping newbies.

Changing points in the old system might have been slightly more difficult, (having to go to someone to get them back… but then again, you’d get a trait reset when ever you used a master or grandmaster trait book so meh..) but then at least you were able to play with all the trait options up to that point. The way it is now, new players will still be buying, getting and learning the new traits when they are well past lvl 80.

Didnt like the new trait system. Makes it harder for new players and feels clumsy compared to the old one! I like the searching for new traits thing but should have been some good traits to look for!

shawn.1298:

Lostyus.4250:

This new trait system is really bad and is putting me off playing.

…..
To put traits behind content that is 10 to 44 levels ahead of your toon either shows that this content was very poorly thought out, or it was designed as a gold sink/gem store booster, again, something that doesn’t sit well with me……

I think a major point of this feature pack was to throttle gold and boost the gem store. No crying here, I figure I already got my $30 of fun. I was doing nothing but alts – I had 6 alts up to lvl 30, but now I have NO interest in playing them. I’ll check back periodically and if major changes are made in trait system, I’ll start leveling alts again. If not, I’ll get a whole lot more fresh air Maybe that was the point To get more people off of their computer and outside for spring?

Hehe

I didn’t realise playing GW2 could be good for our health, it’s given us a new direction in life

BAWW.8104:

- the tasks should be tied to content of appropriate level, as many have suggested.
- the tasks are entirely irrelevant to their associated traits. What has killing this boss or capping that tower anything to do with the trait I just learned? Nothing at all.
- the tasks should be tailored and different for every profession, such that a player levelling different professions get directed to experience different content, instead of the exact same content everytime.
- the tasks should teach or demonstrate some things about their associated traits. For example, a dredge boss converts conditions on him and his allies into boons every time he hits his gong and pep-talks his comrades, and upon his defeat my Guardian learns Pure of Voice. I just want some relevance.

How much of this? So much of this. This is exactly what players were asking for when we were initially discussing and brainstorming on horizontal/vertical progression. I have absolutely no idea how ANet interpreted what we were saying into what made it into the game.

Skills/traits absolutely should be something that a player can earn instead of just buy (whether it be from a trainer for Gold or off a menu for some sort of spendable point) but, as above, there are certain tenets that must be followed.

- The skill/trait needs to be acquirable in a way/location/etc that is appropriate for the character wanting the skill/trait (if it’s a level 35 skill it should be, barring certain design possibilities* , be in at most a level 40 zone)

- The task required for the skill/trait needs to have some relation to what you’re going to be earning, otherwise it just feels like checking items off a completely random shopping list. For the most simple and obvious example, a skill/trait that is obviously group play focused should be earned in group play. A skill/trait that is obviously group play focused should not be earned in a solo personal story instance.

• I am not against the idea of there being treks into higher level areas for certain skill/traits if it’s thematically appropriate. A thief trait that improves stealth, for instance, would be perfectly well suited to be earned by having a lower level player “sneak” into a higher level enemy area and interact with an object. This should, however, be the exception and not the norm, and should only be used when it makes sense to the class and the skill/trait earned.

I think this new trait system will discourage established players from creating any new alts – I certainly won’t. But then I already have at least one of each profession, only my necro and engineer are not level 80 yet.

1.) Now that it doesn’t cost money to redistribute traits and it can be done so easily no need to have more than one of each profession.
2.) Waiting until level 30 to get a trait is very discouraging. Why not give one trait every 5 levels starting at 10. It would make it easier to remember when you get a trait and how many.
3.) I like the idea of unlocking traits but not the way it was implemented. Some of the tasks seem too difficult for the level of the trait.