Guild Wars 2

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

TrOtskY.5927:

How the new trait system should have worked

> Go to map X and complete Y number of Heart quests

> Go to map Z and complete W number of Vistas

> Complete a total number heart quests across all maps

> Unlock all your tier 2 utility skills on your character

> Kill 1,000 enemies in PvE total

ETC

How it works

> Go to this obscure place and do this obscure quest

> Complete an entire specific map that is at the opposite end of the world to where your character starts

> Go to WvW and kill the absolutely huge boss that takes an entire zerg like 15 minutes to kill

Basically what I am saying is that the direction was ok, but the application was god awful.

I think your system would have been terrible too, for the record. I mean, sure, it doesn’t include the Grub from what I see but . . . still looks bad.

I don’t like it, but what’s really bad is that it’s still a significant improvement on what we have. The current set up is terrible both in theory AND in application.

If they absolutely insisted on the character bound setup we have now, then the most tolerable idea to me would be something like:

Staff Mastery = 500 kills with a staff
Falling Damage reduction = Lose > 70% of your health from falling and survive

But even then, it just hugely discourages experimentation and makes levelling boring. The system is fundamentally broken as it stands and I’m truly amazed that they haven’t at the very least made the unlocks account bound.

CrashTestAuto.9108:

Aaaaaand 2,500 posts basically ignored. I can’t believe all we’ve had so far is “Sorry, wasn’t paying attention there, could you maybe summarise the most superficial changes we could make?”

Its more like "Sorry, we weren’t paying attention to the thread we started and don’t care enough to read your suggestions now. I’m here now because we were badgered to come to this thread in the “Communicating with You” thread. Here, have a hamster wheel: crank out more suggestions to keep yourselves busy so you don’t complain."

I can see where they may be coming from, re: silence. If you don’t say anything, then you can’t be held to anything. This is a strategy that businesses use on their social media over minor kerfuffles, since it usually dies down within a few days. Remember the Applebee’s receipt controversy a year ago? Most people don’t, and Applebee’s tried to keep quiet on it, so people still go there.

The problem is that this is five months worth of people describing precisely how terrible this decision was and are passionate enough about it to keep on floating the topic to the top. This is not “They burned my hamburger and told me I couldn’t have my money back because I ate 3/4 of it!” here. I do wonder if the community relations people would LIKE to comment, but there is some sort of war/conflict/scoffing at the Dev or Producer level over this. It’s quite clear that a vocal percentage of the player base thinks that whoever thought this was a good idea is a insert clever yet derogatory analogy here, but it’s also quite clear that the go-ahead to revert or to tell the players to stuff it hasn’t been completed yet. With such a passionate topic, anything they say will be held to like welded steel.

I honestly don’t know what the hold-up is. I almost wish I did, but the silence, while deafening and incredibly insulting, is understandable. I just wish that whoever the insert another insulting and derogatory name was who authorized this could be held accountable by the people who would like to play their alts again. A game becomes a ghost town VERY quickly if people stop playing alts, and I’m already seeing a lack of actual other people in the lower levels.

Zaiteki.3265:

I can see where they may be coming from, re: silence. If you don’t say anything, then you can’t be held to anything. This is a strategy that businesses use on their social media over minor kerfuffles, since it usually dies down within a few days. Remember the Applebee’s receipt controversy a year ago? Most people don’t, and Applebee’s tried to keep quiet on it, so people still go there.

The problem is that this is five months worth of people describing precisely how terrible this decision was and are passionate enough about it to keep on floating the topic to the top. This is not “They burned my hamburger and told me I couldn’t have my money back because I ate 3/4 of it!” here. I do wonder if the community relations people would LIKE to comment, but there is some sort of war/conflict/scoffing at the Dev or Producer level over this. It’s quite clear that a vocal percentage of the player base thinks that whoever thought this was a good idea is a insert clever yet derogatory analogy here, but it’s also quite clear that the go-ahead to revert or to tell the players to stuff it hasn’t been completed yet. With such a passionate topic, anything they say will be held to like welded steel.

I honestly don’t know what the hold-up is. I almost wish I did, but the silence, while deafening and incredibly insulting, is understandable. I just wish that whoever the insert another insulting and derogatory name was who authorized this could be held accountable by the people who would like to play their alts again. A game becomes a ghost town VERY quickly if people stop playing alts, and I’m already seeing a lack of actual other people in the lower levels.

While I agree with 99% of your post, I don’t find the silence to be understandable at all. It is beyond inexcusable, doubly and triply so because of their recent dog-and-pony Communications show that showered the community with gumdrops, rainbows, and group hugs. Chris even acknowledged this thread in particular, and sent a guy over here and..here we are still getting ignored, and nothing has changed. So much for all that.

They seem to think that this is a quiet, forum-only anomaly that, if ignored long enough, will just lose steam and sink away to the depths of the discussion forums. Thing is, I link this thread to every GW2 article that is posted on a very popular gaming site, with a succinct description of what is going on and how the community is being treated. They are shooting themselves in the foot by letting this drag on.

..And yet it drags on! This is a textbook example of how to mismanage a community related problem based on not owning and fixing your mistakes.

Feedback attempt*

Bought the game at launch played until level 40ish wife fell pregnant and now here I am to resume now that I have a few hours here or there.

I honestly have no idea at all about traits and how to obtain them, whether I quest, pvp or buy them. After 35 levels of a new character (necro), the motivation to continue playing is slowly dwindling as it seems far far too much of a grind when surely traits should unlock over the course of levelling automatically, or am I being too lazy?

Regardless, I am no further forward and if anything now feels like ‘work’ playing GW2 rather than fun or relaxing, which after all is why I game in the first place.
Please adjust this or at least provide in game tuition on how to unlock traits. I have unlocked one or 2 purely by chance/accident and have no idea on how to go about gaining more.
If they are meant to be bought tell me how on earth I can afford them when making gold in GW2 is so time consuming and difficult. Hope this didn’t read as too moany..

TLDR Not convinced the traits changes are for the best. Please revert to previous method or change the unlock process again to something more intuitive.
thanks.

Penarddun.6827:

the game has become one big grind to level 80 for me.

This. Leveling up should feel fun but it feels like none of the fun happens until level 80.

I will just tell a little story that I hope ANet can take a lesson from.

I work in an accounting firm. Right after tax season we were told that we were getting a new computer system to track our time and billing. The admin staff were given weeks of training so they could help teach the rest of us noobs. The company who made the program sent in people to give us days worth of training. We used the system for about a month before realizing it was much worse than the previous system. Our firm owners owned up to this and announced they made a mistake to implement the system and had decided to uninstall it and go back to the old one.

Every person in the office cheered. We now call it the program that will not be named. We ALL had 100% respect for the owners for accepting they made a mistake and then for fixing it FAST. I’m sure they spent tens of thousands of dollars, at a minimum. Yet they sucked it up and made the right call.

So…… seriously. What the hell is up?

ozmaniandevil.6805:

I will just tell a little story that I hope ANet can take a lesson from.

I work in an accounting firm. Right after tax season we were told that we were getting a new computer system to track our time and billing. The admin staff were given weeks of training so they could help teach the rest of us noobs. The company who made the program sent in people to give us days worth of training. We used the system for about a month before realizing it was much worse than the previous system. Our firm owners owned up to this and announced they made a mistake to implement the system and had decided to uninstall it and go back to the old one.

Every person in the office cheered. We now call it the program that will not be named. We ALL had 100% respect for the owners for accepting they made a mistake and then for fixing it FAST. I’m sure they spent tens of thousands of dollars, at a minimum. Yet they sucked it up and made the right call.

So…… seriously. What the hell is up?

I wouldn’t be surprised if they didn’t get at least part of their investment back because the system didn’t live up to what was promised.

ANet, on the other hand, will recover NOTHING of the money they’ve invested into this system.

I’m personally still wondering WHY there was a new trait system. I quit half a year after launch, came back in April, and found this mess in place. And was not amused. At all. I never was in game rich, and the idea of buying traits (and having to farm SP) for new alts was unfun to say the least. The alternative of doing all those required unlocks was even worse. I had 4 80s with full world unlock at that time, I’d literally been there, done that 4 times over.

And I really don’t see what was wrong with the old system. Buy trait books, starting at level 10, experiment with traits, and play the game however you want. For a new player, they were a lot of money, but it was quite doable.

The new system feels terribly forced. You want to have the trait? You HAVE to do X, including play styles like WvW which you might actually hate with all your heart.

And please stop with the ‘just buy the trait then’ argument. As previous posters have already mentioned, that is WAY too expensive in SP and cash for a new player. And as to veteran players… well, personally, I completely and totally hate dungeons, and I think the WvW is rather boring. I generally run around creating new alts (not anymore, NPE and the traits killed that for me) and doing world bosses.

Getting money for me would mean open world loot farming (an activity the devs disapprove of and nerf at every opportunity) or gathering resources for hours on end. Both of which are frankly boring to the point that even mining in EVE starts sounding fun and exciting. And I don’t even want to THINK about how many hours of that boredom leveling even one alt would involve under the current system. And trust me, I tried.*

(*seriously? Low level zone mobs are now so easy that my badly geared noob ranger kills everything without even taking any damage. And why are most of the tameable juvenile pets gone from Wayfarer, and presumably the other low level zones… is the game more FUN if you can only find them in a level 35 zone, so you can’t experiment with them until you’re able to go there?)

I’m just wondering when (or if) we’re ever going to hear word from Anet about traits? Even just a “Well, that’s a lot of words you guys wrote. But, nothing is changing, this is how we want you to play the game.” at this point would let us know where we stand.

Palador.2170:

ozmaniandevil.6805:

I will just tell a little story that I hope ANet can take a lesson from.

I work in an accounting firm. Right after tax season we were told that we were getting a new computer system to track our time and billing. The admin staff were given weeks of training so they could help teach the rest of us noobs. The company who made the program sent in people to give us days worth of training. We used the system for about a month before realizing it was much worse than the previous system. Our firm owners owned up to this and announced they made a mistake to implement the system and had decided to uninstall it and go back to the old one.

Every person in the office cheered. We now call it the program that will not be named. We ALL had 100% respect for the owners for accepting they made a mistake and then for fixing it FAST. I’m sure they spent tens of thousands of dollars, at a minimum. Yet they sucked it up and made the right call.

So…… seriously. What the hell is up?

I wouldn’t be surprised if they didn’t get at least part of their investment back because the system didn’t live up to what was promised.

ANet, on the other hand, will recover NOTHING of the money they’ve invested into this system.

Regardless of the cost of the system itself, the firm spent a lot of money and time getting the system set up. Those are sunk costs, and it wasn’t cheap. My point is that even though it cost money and time, they admitted the mistake and fixed it right away. ANet, on the other hand, seems to refuse to even really acknowledge their mistake on the trait system, and are dragging their heels on fixing it beyond all reasonability.

Palador.2170:

ozmaniandevil.6805:

I will just tell a little story that I hope ANet can take a lesson from.

I work in an accounting firm. Right after tax season we were told that we were getting a new computer system to track our time and billing. The admin staff were given weeks of training so they could help teach the rest of us noobs. The company who made the program sent in people to give us days worth of training. We used the system for about a month before realizing it was much worse than the previous system. Our firm owners owned up to this and announced they made a mistake to implement the system and had decided to uninstall it and go back to the old one.

Every person in the office cheered. We now call it the program that will not be named. We ALL had 100% respect for the owners for accepting they made a mistake and then for fixing it FAST. I’m sure they spent tens of thousands of dollars, at a minimum. Yet they sucked it up and made the right call.

So…… seriously. What the hell is up?

I wouldn’t be surprised if they didn’t get at least part of their investment back because the system didn’t live up to what was promised.

ANet, on the other hand, will recover NOTHING of the money they’ve invested into this system.

actually you have to see Anet as the software developers and we (the players) are the customers of the product, they should bring back the old system and only keep the good part (freely appointing trait points) so we (the customers) are satisfied with what was promised.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

TrOtskY.5927:

How the new trait system should have worked

> Go to map X and complete Y number of Heart quests

> Go to map Z and complete W number of Vistas

> Complete a total number heart quests across all maps

> Unlock all your tier 2 utility skills on your character

> Kill 1,000 enemies in PvE total

ETC

How it works

> Go to this obscure place and do this obscure quest

> Complete an entire specific map that is at the opposite end of the world to where your character starts

> Go to WvW and kill the absolutely huge boss that takes an entire zerg like 15 minutes to kill

Basically what I am saying is that the direction was ok, but the application was god awful.

I think your system would have been terrible too, for the record. I mean, sure, it doesn’t include the Grub from what I see but . . . still looks bad.

Hey I’m not saying I want a system at all, I would much prefer it as before, but I am saying that I can see what they were at least trying to do.
Like I said, the execution was terrible, however the idea of traits unlocks being tied to some sort of achievement is not inherently awful, by any means.

Palador.2170:

ANet, on the other hand, will recover NOTHING of the money they’ve invested into this system.

Could be totally wrong here, but because of this trait disaster, you might think they are losing money. Less character slots being bought and what goes along with outfitting these new toons.

This free trial hopefully will open their eyes up a bit. Lets face it, this new system has blown thru the internet as bad, and that can’t be good for the rep of the game.

Illysharia.7286:

Kuldebar.1897:

To put it simply, what should have happened:

• The standard Traits, ie. the core Traits, should have been left as they were in regards to how they were acquired. (This is not to say the Traits for various Professions don’t need tweaking and fixes, of course!)

• New Traits should have been introduced into the game, and those Traits would be tied to various well chosen content gated activities or achievements.

Thus allowing the player to acquire the Core Traits more or less as intended while serving up some “Elite” Traits that would inspire the Player to tackle some fun challenges.

This was pretty much in-line with what the CDI on horizontal progression was talking about. At least, what the players were suggesting. Given how it was executed, I believe the translation to the Dev’s must have been in Klingon.

Regardless. This suggestion is awesome. It’s never going to happen, but it is still what should have happened to begin with.

Actually they should have just let traits alone and done this with skills.

the current system of traits hurts new players, 5 months ago they are saying and do not listen…

GG Arenanet

Are we going to go yet another day without further communication on this topic?

What’s another day after 5 months? Hell the first response was somewhere on page 40-something. Sad part is, any new players they DO get from the NPE won’t even realize what they are in for trait wise, nor will they be able to roll with the vets who have plenty of toons with full trait lists that can shift builds on the fly.

Maybe Anet’s gift to vet players are going to be all the fun WvW loot bags that won’t be able to adjust to various players and tactics because they couldn’t afford half of their traits.

Palador.2170:

ozmaniandevil.6805:

I will just tell a little story that I hope ANet can take a lesson from.

I work in an accounting firm. Right after tax season we were told that we were getting a new computer system to track our time and billing. The admin staff were given weeks of training so they could help teach the rest of us noobs. The company who made the program sent in people to give us days worth of training. We used the system for about a month before realizing it was much worse than the previous system. Our firm owners owned up to this and announced they made a mistake to implement the system and had decided to uninstall it and go back to the old one.

Every person in the office cheered. We now call it the program that will not be named. We ALL had 100% respect for the owners for accepting they made a mistake and then for fixing it FAST. I’m sure they spent tens of thousands of dollars, at a minimum. Yet they sucked it up and made the right call.

So…… seriously. What the hell is up?

I wouldn’t be surprised if they didn’t get at least part of their investment back because the system didn’t live up to what was promised.

ANet, on the other hand, will recover NOTHING of the money they’ve invested into this system.

They would start getting a lot more missing revenue from all the players that stop boycotting the gem store and start referring people again.

TrOtskY.5927:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

TrOtskY.5927:

How the new trait system should have worked

> Go to map X and complete Y number of Heart quests

> Go to map Z and complete W number of Vistas

> Complete a total number heart quests across all maps

> Unlock all your tier 2 utility skills on your character

> Kill 1,000 enemies in PvE total

ETC

How it works

> Go to this obscure place and do this obscure quest

> Complete an entire specific map that is at the opposite end of the world to where your character starts

> Go to WvW and kill the absolutely huge boss that takes an entire zerg like 15 minutes to kill

Basically what I am saying is that the direction was ok, but the application was god awful.

I think your system would have been terrible too, for the record. I mean, sure, it doesn’t include the Grub from what I see but . . . still looks bad.

Hey I’m not saying I want a system at all, I would much prefer it as before, but I am saying that I can see what they were at least trying to do.
Like I said, the execution was terrible, however the idea of traits unlocks being tied to some sort of achievement is not inherently awful, by any means.

I disagree, I believe this entire new system is awful. They should have only done this with the new traits and new skills. That way people could still experiment with current builds but have new build options open up through exploration and tasks.

Another alternative solution for unlocking traits could be to have Adept and Master level traits attached to specific Renown Hearts across the map. Grandmaster level traits could be tied to specific Elite or Champion boss enemies in level 60+ zones that are not attached to any dynamic events.

This could be a less frustrating way of getting players to naturally gain new traits as they explore the map while harking back to GW1’s skill quests and elite capping from bosses. And as usual, offer a way of just buying the traits outright (minus the skill point cost, please).

But again, once you’ve done it once or twice ot nine times why should we be forced to do it again…and again… and again? There must be a better way.

ozmaniandevil.6805:

But again, once you’ve done it once or twice ot nine times why should we be forced to do it again…and again… and again? There must be a better way.

The obvious, and extremely simple, solution is just to account bind the unlocks. I am staggered that this still hasn’t happened.

ThanatosAngel.8024:

Another alternative solution for unlocking traits could be to have Adept and Master level traits attached to specific Renown Hearts across the map. Grandmaster level traits could be tied to specific Elite or Champion boss enemies in level 60+ zones that are not attached to any dynamic events.

This could be a less frustrating way of getting players to naturally gain new traits as they explore the map while harking back to GW1’s skill quests and elite capping from bosses. And as usual, offer a way of just buying the traits outright (minus the skill point cost, please).

You do realize, I hope, that this penalizes people whose play style does not include PVE? Making people do things they do not like doing is not exactly the way to go if you want to keep players playing (and paying).

That is what was so great about the old system. All you needed to do, was buy a trait book ever x levels, after which you could experiment at will.

ThanatosAngel.8024:

Another alternative solution for unlocking traits could be to have Adept and Master level traits attached to specific Renown Hearts across the map. Grandmaster level traits could be tied to specific Elite or Champion boss enemies in level 60+ zones that are not attached to any dynamic events.

This could be a less frustrating way of getting players to naturally gain new traits as they explore the map while harking back to GW1’s skill quests and elite capping from bosses. And as usual, offer a way of just buying the traits outright (minus the skill point cost, please).

hearts are not the best part of this game by far, i wouldnt require people to do 30 hearts.

Broom.2561:

ThanatosAngel.8024:

Another alternative solution for unlocking traits could be to have Adept and Master level traits attached to specific Renown Hearts across the map. Grandmaster level traits could be tied to specific Elite or Champion boss enemies in level 60+ zones that are not attached to any dynamic events.

This could be a less frustrating way of getting players to naturally gain new traits as they explore the map while harking back to GW1’s skill quests and elite capping from bosses. And as usual, offer a way of just buying the traits outright (minus the skill point cost, please).

You do realize, I hope, that this penalizes people whose play style does not include PVE? Making people do things they do not like doing is not exactly the way to go if you want to keep players playing (and paying).

That is what was so great about the old system. All you needed to do, was buy a trait book ever x levels, after which you could experiment at will.

they should have an alternative method of unlocking in WvW that uses WXP as a gate, and karma and/or badges of honor to buy traits. To make it slightly more interesting, they could make the “trait trainers” have access to more or less traits depending on the situation.

not that i think hearts is a good suggestion, but i do believe that pve, and WvW should have different methods of aquisition for skills

phys.7689:

Broom.2561:

ThanatosAngel.8024:

Another alternative solution for unlocking traits could be to have Adept and Master level traits attached to specific Renown Hearts across the map. Grandmaster level traits could be tied to specific Elite or Champion boss enemies in level 60+ zones that are not attached to any dynamic events.

This could be a less frustrating way of getting players to naturally gain new traits as they explore the map while harking back to GW1’s skill quests and elite capping from bosses. And as usual, offer a way of just buying the traits outright (minus the skill point cost, please).

You do realize, I hope, that this penalizes people whose play style does not include PVE? Making people do things they do not like doing is not exactly the way to go if you want to keep players playing (and paying).

That is what was so great about the old system. All you needed to do, was buy a trait book ever x levels, after which you could experiment at will.

they should have an alternative method of unlocking in WvW that uses WXP as a gate, and karma and/or badges of honor to buy traits. To make it slightly more interesting, they could make the “trait trainers” have access to more or less traits depending on the situation.

not that i think hearts is a good suggestion, but i do believe that pve, and WvW should have different methods of aquisition for skills

I believe any type of fixed method like hearts or WvW achievements would be wrong, as it still tries to force people into certain directions, while this game USED to be about freedom to do whatever you felt like doing at whatever time you felt like doing it.

For me, it feels extremely stifling to know that if I want one specific achievement, I HAVE to go to this-and-that area and do this-and-that thing. Especially since I have 6 80s already, and have literally been there done that 6 times over (full PVE map exploration on all 6).

Again, I think the old method was vastly better. The amount of money needed for a skill book was not trivial to a new player, but it gave you a huge freedom to explore abilities and experiment with them.

And honestly, the way things are now, you can only really learn to play your character once you’re 80. Which is just silly.

I wonder what Anet’s all-encompassing statistics say about how many traits people tend to unlock on average. I don’t think any of the characters I’ve made since the patch (3) have more than 20 traits.

I have leveled all 8 professions to 80. I’ve noticed the ones that I enjoy playing the most are the ones I’ve experimented the most with their traits. Some professions I hardly bothered with their traits, or at least not fully researching coordinating their traits with their skills, with their weapons, etc. I wonder if this new trait/leveling process will foster a whole crop of players with underdeveloped characters.

Broom.2561:

ThanatosAngel.8024:

Another alternative solution for unlocking traits could be to have Adept and Master level traits attached to specific Renown Hearts across the map. Grandmaster level traits could be tied to specific Elite or Champion boss enemies in level 60+ zones that are not attached to any dynamic events.

This could be a less frustrating way of getting players to naturally gain new traits as they explore the map while harking back to GW1’s skill quests and elite capping from bosses. And as usual, offer a way of just buying the traits outright (minus the skill point cost, please).

You do realize, I hope, that this penalizes people whose play style does not include PVE? Making people do things they do not like doing is not exactly the way to go if you want to keep players playing (and paying).

That is what was so great about the old system. All you needed to do, was buy a trait book ever x levels, after which you could experiment at will.

Yes, exactly. No one should be forced to play content to get all the regular traits. This isn’t some stupid back piece we’re talking about. It’s traits – a core piece of our builds. This fiasco has got to be fixed. C’MON ANET. Stop. Dragging. Your. Feet.

I enjoyng this game, PvE , PvP , WvsW. All of contents are fun.
and I enjoyed all of mini dungeons, jumping puzzles, they are so great.

But now, we forced to do something with unlock system which created by ANET.
I invited some newbies in this free trial weekend, and I tryed to enjoy some contents with them, but they can’t see vistas(unlock vista on lvl10), could not come PvP areas(unlock on lvl23), almost could not use weapon swaps ! wtf.

It was great game I thought, I doing dodge, jumps, combos, weapon swaps, and change to death-shroud,and so on, many systems are fun, great.
But now we can’t enjoy untill we unlock lvl 80s.
I don’t know how anet thought about this, but its terrible.
please rollback this unlock systems before.

Broom.2561:

ThanatosAngel.8024:

Another alternative solution for unlocking traits could be to have Adept and Master level traits attached to specific Renown Hearts across the map. Grandmaster level traits could be tied to specific Elite or Champion boss enemies in level 60+ zones that are not attached to any dynamic events.

This could be a less frustrating way of getting players to naturally gain new traits as they explore the map while harking back to GW1’s skill quests and elite capping from bosses. And as usual, offer a way of just buying the traits outright (minus the skill point cost, please).

You do realize, I hope, that this penalizes people whose play style does not include PVE? Making people do things they do not like doing is not exactly the way to go if you want to keep players playing (and paying).

That is what was so great about the old system. All you needed to do, was buy a trait book ever x levels, after which you could experiment at will.

This system penalizes people who dislike pve, who dislike wvw…in short, I dislike this system entirely. I just stopped making alts, and play my existing 80’s much less now as I have lost interest with this change in how the game MUST be played now. The game has changed direction in a way I personally dislike.

No experimentation with builds on a new character is just awful to me. I have met players with no traits but some minor adepts; they do not feel like jumping through hoops doing things they don’t want ( I always ask people what they think about the system etc).

I have met players who told me " you don’t need traits unless you really feel like getting them, just focus on getting skill points for the important utilities"….they have no intention of even getting traits unless it just happens .

Someone told me I would eventually see many players with only the minor Adept traits …and now, I have people telling me that this is in fact their “build”. One player told me this is the “balanced build”. They make do with utilities. The traits are seen as optional if you want to do the things you must do for them.

Anyway, I check back now and then to what has happened, not that I really expect this to be fixed.

this thread should NEVER leave the front page

I just noticed that for an adept trait that i can unlock at lvl 35 i need to go to a lvl 55 map and complete an event. The basic idea is good but they should make it that adept traits are easy to get and the master traits harder to get. they want to make things easier for players that start new but i think this system does the opposite and confuses new players as well as annoys the older ones.

kiyo.4760:

I enjoyng this game, PvE , PvP , WvsW. All of contents are fun.
and I enjoyed all of mini dungeons, jumping puzzles, they are so great.

But now, we forced to do something with unlock system which created by ANET.
I invited some newbies in this free trial weekend, and I tryed to enjoy some contents with them, but they can’t see vistas(unlock vista on lvl10), could not come PvP areas(unlock on lvl23), almost could not use weapon swaps ! wtf.

It was great game I thought, I doing dodge, jumps, combos, weapon swaps, and change to death-shroud,and so on, many systems are fun, great.
But now we can’t enjoy untill we unlock lvl 80s.
I don’t know how anet thought about this, but its terrible.
please rollback this unlock systems before.

A bit of misinformation there. You can view vistas from level 2. They don’t show up on your map until level 10. If you were with them your friends could indeed view vistas.

You can get to PvP from level 2 if you want. All you have to do is know the shortcut. You could easily tell your friends the short cut. Only the icon on their screen is locked out until they level.

Weapon swaps don’t happen until level 12…however, they used to happen at level 7. You get to level 12 now in about the same time as you used to get to level 7.

Maybe before you complain, you should test what you’re complaining about. Because right now, all you’re doing is spreading misinformation.

Vayne.8563:

Weapon swaps don’t happen until level 12…however, they used to happen at level 7. You get to level 12 now in about the same time as you used to get to level 7.

To be more exact, you’re EXPECTED to reach level 12 now at about the same time you used to reach level 7. I’m not convinced that’s actually going to happen for new players.

Vayne’s right about the rest of it, though. They’re not as limited as the game may lead you to believe, it’s more that the game isn’t telling them they can do those things yet.

Broom.2561:

phys.7689:

Broom.2561:

ThanatosAngel.8024:

Another alternative solution for unlocking traits could be to have Adept and Master level traits attached to specific Renown Hearts across the map. Grandmaster level traits could be tied to specific Elite or Champion boss enemies in level 60+ zones that are not attached to any dynamic events.

This could be a less frustrating way of getting players to naturally gain new traits as they explore the map while harking back to GW1’s skill quests and elite capping from bosses. And as usual, offer a way of just buying the traits outright (minus the skill point cost, please).

You do realize, I hope, that this penalizes people whose play style does not include PVE? Making people do things they do not like doing is not exactly the way to go if you want to keep players playing (and paying).

That is what was so great about the old system. All you needed to do, was buy a trait book ever x levels, after which you could experiment at will.

they should have an alternative method of unlocking in WvW that uses WXP as a gate, and karma and/or badges of honor to buy traits. To make it slightly more interesting, they could make the “trait trainers” have access to more or less traits depending on the situation.

not that i think hearts is a good suggestion, but i do believe that pve, and WvW should have different methods of aquisition for skills

I believe any type of fixed method like hearts or WvW achievements would be wrong, as it still tries to force people into certain directions, while this game USED to be about freedom to do whatever you felt like doing at whatever time you felt like doing it.

For me, it feels extremely stifling to know that if I want one specific achievement, I HAVE to go to this-and-that area and do this-and-that thing. Especially since I have 6 80s already, and have literally been there done that 6 times over (full PVE map exploration on all 6).

Again, I think the old method was vastly better. The amount of money needed for a skill book was not trivial to a new player, but it gave you a huge freedom to explore abilities and experiment with them.

And honestly, the way things are now, you can only really learn to play your character once you’re 80. Which is just silly.

i agree the new system is bad, but if you are going to have unlocking at all, it would be better that WvW and PVE have different means of unlocking. As far as doing things you dont like, Wxp karma/badges you will get from playing WvW, if thats what you enjoy. In fact in WvW, wxp/karma/badges is substantially more normal an occurence than skill points.
only skill points in WvW are from leveling, and a chance from champ bags. Champ bags are only at certain objectives, with champions.

Palador.2170:

To be more exact, you’re EXPECTED to reach level 12 now at about the same time you used to reach level 7. I’m not convinced that’s actually going to happen for new players.

Yeah, speed runs/grinds may be in line for this theory. But as a semi-casual player, I was able to get a character to level 15 in one sitting before the patch.

Now, my new character just got over level 12, but it took me days to accomplish. Thank goodness I was able to do the PS at level 10 (wish it had come sooner) to break up some of the monotony. These time comparisons are not universal for all players.

Penarddun.6827:

Now, my new character just got over level 12, but it took me days to accomplish. Thank goodness I was able to do the PS at level 10 (wish it had come sooner) to break up some of the monotony. These time comparisons are not universal for all players.

I found DEs helped with that monotonous feeling, as well as exploring around. But then, that’s my nature – an explorer and someone doing things because they’re there.

Honestly, I almost think if the DEs were denser in the starting zones . . . it might help alleviate the problem. I know Queensdale/Shaemoor was pretty dense with events for a time, don’t know if it still is. (Seriously, almost all of the area right there around the river from the western dam to the eastern lake has events around it.

The new trait system is atrocious. I am feeling sorry for every player who is leveling up a new toon. Even if you have enough tomes to instantly level up your alt to 80. Your new character is useless without traits. I hope the free gw2 trial will upset a lot of new players, maybe Anet will revert the system.

50+ pages

a Gazillion views and replies

almost 6 months of NEGATIVE feedback

and still nothing on Anet’s part.

yaaaay ?

sighs having moved from WoW because Blizzard suck as far as communication on important player issues, now ANET are becoming as bad, if not worse

Just my opinion here:

As far as i recall, during development Anet stated SOOOO many times PvE, PvP and WvW would be separate, instead of one depending on the other which KILLS so many older MMO’s.

Now exploration, “Ok” i can still be “ok” with WvW map completion for full map completion, some people might be actually getting into WvW that way.
However, if i level a new character in WvW I’m LIMITED because i “could” be leveling elsewhere to complete my traits, i feel like I’m FORCED to where i HAVE to level my characters.

I agree this game needs a goldsink, BUT SERIOUSLY? this isn’t a good way of a goldsink, allright this downright PUNISHES new players, and everyone trying to make a new character, by downright more then TENFOLDING the price on traits(“unless we decide to follow Anet’s patch to where we should level”)

My recommendation is to ROLLBACK to the old system, at least till something better can be put in place, we could get options that work in PvE a well as WvW, or make it skill-use-gated like how skill unlock used to work on weapons, using skills that are improved by X trait X times unlocks the improvement, a sort of extra leveling

There are many good solutions…..this ain’t one and right now, because of this I can’t play and test out my mesmer correctly, and I’m reluctant to level anything else

I purchased the game about a year or so ago and leveled a guardian till 64 and a warrior till 44 and where left at those levels . Due to some real life issues i stopped playing untill some days ago when i finaly picked it up again . First thing i discovered was the traits could be reset on the go and i said to myself “hmm this is great , i can finaly experiment things on the spot” right ? Wrong . A bit later i discovered i had to uncover the entire kitten map and do some other challenges and achievements i have no ideea nor the pleasure of doing (i’m not a game challenge and achievements person , never cared , never will unless i made them by mistake). To make things even more strange , the personal story is now locked into 10 levels spread chapters and after i’m completing a chapter i’m left with a boring grind . I loved this game (didn’t play much but still) because it was a very relaxing game , something wich lacks games today , but now it became a second job with all the recent changes (i don’t know all the changes , i’m refering the ones that hurt the most ). I can understand some of the motivation in these changes ( make people explore the map and all that ) but tie the vital parts of the game to it it’s just wrong . I’m going to level my guardian to lvl 80 and leave it like that untill the do something to the trait system , because there isn’t realy a point for me to play half a char . I realy hope it doesn’t take them a long to fix this , but seing how it passed about 5 or 6 months and not a single word on this fiasco , i think i’ll see you in another year or so.

Karpatz.2581:

A bit later i discovered i had to uncover the entire kitten map and do some other challenges and achievements i have no ideea nor the pleasure of doing

You don’t have to get traits for characters created prior the April 15th patch they already have all but 3 which are new and which have to be unlocked by everybody. You might not see the traits yet but you have them, can’t remember how exactly that has been on my grandfathered in warrior who has been level 6 when the patch hit.
For characters created after April 15th you have to unlock all traits, that is true.

So basically the changes made to improve gameplay on a casual level are hated by the regulars and casual players alike

Exeon.4358:

So basically the changes made to improve gameplay on a casual level are hated by the regulars and casual players alike

By some (most?) but not all.

I have several level 80’s, all created before April. I decided to start a new toon, to give the new leveling system a go. The trait un-locks… A-Net, my god. No new player will have the money or stamina to suffer through this. Especially a player using free-trial time. I’ve gotten the new toon to level 32 – mostly in EoTM, karma-training, because PVE was painfully slow for someone with previous map completions. Having to complete tasks to unlock a skill or trait is frustrating. Granting bonus skill points as part of the level-up rewards was a good move to try to speed up gaining skills. But it just doesn’t make up for the fact that most of the “fun” stuff happens at higher levels and if you don’t have the traits and skills in place, it won’t be that much fun. I think players would rather dump their gold on their gear, not need to save it to buy traits. Sure – you could attempt to farm dungeons – if you can find a group to take in your un-skilled self. I hate dungeons & PvP, personally. And no one makes money in WvW. Bottom line- the old trait un-lock system worked better. Keep the challenges for the highest trait level (because we all need a challenge to keep things fresh).

Lazuli.2098:

Exeon.4358:

So basically the changes made to improve gameplay on a casual level are hated by the regulars and casual players alike

By some (most?) but not all.

It’s the significant majority (almost everyone) who has actually posted in this thread has been somewhere between dislike and hatred. Obviously not everyone who plays has posted here, but usually threads have at least some division (even SAB threads are filled with people who for some reason don’t want other people to be allowed to play it).

The NPE is a mixed bag of opinions, but the trait changes have been essentially universally opposed (by those who have commented) for five months.

The trait changes, more than anything else, are a major gold sink. i think after the first Pavilion event, Anet realized that they injected a TON of gold into the economy and have been trying to find ways to bleed it and the materials from it out of the economy so they introduced the Bazaar and a few other things, but this wasn’t removing it fast enough. i honestly think these traits changes (aside from dragging out the leveling and growth of new toons) was meant to tear out more gold from the world and also make it near impossible for new players to hold onto vast amounts of gold as they leveled. Its honestly the only “logical” reason I can think of for these changes to still be here.