Guild Wars 2

I think people really don’t understand how Guild Wars 2 is supposed to be played, given how much they’re treating it like other MMOs.

Am I the only one to hang around whatever area I feel like simply because I enjoy the scenery and find the enemies fun to fight?

Sartharina.3542:

I think people really don’t understand how Guild Wars 2 is supposed to be played, given how much they’re treating it like other MMOs.

Am I the only one to hang around whatever area I feel like simply because I enjoy the scenery and find the enemies fun to fight?

Are you surprised people get bored of fighting the same things in the same places and are now forced to go do specific things in order to get a trait? And have to do those exact same things on every single post-April15 character they ever have?

Well I was planning to level a guardian and a necromancer but well… the trait system has stopped me.

I can either play without traits until eventually I can get to the right level to unlock them (Yay level 50+ stuff for a level 40 trait) or I can grind skill points and gold for them.

Or I can just not bother with making anything new.

Before this new system, I would run the maps collecting waypoints. Come back later to explore and do things. Building my toon the best I could as I went. This is how I would pretty much would level.

Now after grinding to lvl 30 on a new one and finding nothing after the grind…well! Guess I will keep grinding Queensdale and EOTM till 80. Then grind gold and skill points and not do another.

Hope this trait change is worth for you Anet, because it really does blow for the players and the enjoyment I once had. Nuff said!

Lord Kuru.3685:

• Run EoTM karma train until you’re 80.
• Look up a build on the web and with the gold you’ve earned, buy only the traits you need.
• Spend the rest of your gold on gear.
• Begin to play the game.

This is pretty much how Anet wants people to play the game now.

Luckily, I was grandfathered in, don’t waste any time with ascended, and create my own builds.
For everyone else that needs to level… kitten I feel bad for you guys…

Sartharina.3542:

I think people really don’t understand how Guild Wars 2 is supposed to be played, given how much they’re treating it like other MMOs.

Am I the only one to hang around whatever area I feel like simply because I enjoy the scenery and find the enemies fun to fight?

Not everyone has the same motivations. :/
It’s nice to look at and enjoy with the background music for a few times but I don’t understand how you’re “playing the game” if you’re just “looking at the sights.”

i have 10 characters, 8 x lv80 (each class) pre patch. 1 x lv39 pre patch and 1 x lv65 post patch.

The new character is a class i have least interest (elementialist) and i reroll because i simply don’t like asura (my first ele is asura) and also wanna try the new trait system. As i already said, i’ve got all class to lv80 and mostly proper geared. The new character is mainly to try out the new trait system.

Actually i quite enjoy the trait system. Yes, some adept tier traits are locked out by hard content to my level, but because of this i am able to use another unlocked trait that i was never planned to use. This way i have a much better knowledge on the class i am using, and this also increased the interest level too. (as i mentioned it is least interest to me)

I have a habit to finish the map 100% before move on (don’t wanna spend loading time come back for the missing POI or waypoint later), this allow me to get surprise trait unlock everytime i finish a map.

I think GW2 vet will not like this complex trait system like most of these post, but as a new player, the system can help them know better their class, try more different traits and go into the open PvE world more. The limitation on some trait unlock is to guide the player to try out some weaker trait first then to go straight into a superior trait. The fun is actually there.

arjeidi.2690:

Sartharina.3542:

I think people really don’t understand how Guild Wars 2 is supposed to be played, given how much they’re treating it like other MMOs.

Am I the only one to hang around whatever area I feel like simply because I enjoy the scenery and find the enemies fun to fight?

Are you surprised people get bored of fighting the same things in the same places and are now forced to go do specific things in order to get a trait? And have to do those exact same things on every single post-April15 character they ever have?

My post was not a defense of the terrible current trait system – if anything, it was a criticism of it. It was more an observation on the way people keep talking about the end payoff as the be-all-end-all of the game, notably the statement that “Zerg Train around, get perks, and spend them on pre-researched trait trees.” You’re not playing the game if you’re not doing anything, and might as well be better off “playing” a game like Progress Quest.

blakdoxa.7520:

Lord Kuru.3685:

• Run EoTM karma train until you’re 80.
• Look up a build on the web and with the gold you’ve earned, buy only the traits you need.
• Spend the rest of your gold on gear.
• Begin to play the game.

This is pretty much how Anet wants people to play the game now.

Luckily, I was grandfathered in, don’t waste any time with ascended, and create my own builds.
For everyone else that needs to level… kitten I feel bad for you guys…

Sartharina.3542:

I think people really don’t understand how Guild Wars 2 is supposed to be played, given how much they’re treating it like other MMOs.

Am I the only one to hang around whatever area I feel like simply because I enjoy the scenery and find the enemies fun to fight?

Not everyone has the same motivations. :/
It’s nice to look at and enjoy with the background music for a few times but I don’t understand how you’re “playing the game” if you’re just “looking at the sights.”

All have their own peculiar way of playing

Cactus Brawler.7415:

Well I was planning to level a guardian and a necromancer but well… the trait system has stopped me.

I can either play without traits until eventually I can get to the right level to unlock them (Yay level 50+ stuff for a level 40 trait) or I can grind skill points and gold for them.

Or I can just not bother with making anything new.

I’m in the same boat.

I want to make an engineer, but this new trait system is horrible. I had a Necromancer that was level 55 on April 15th when the patch hit. Until April 14th I was having fun leveling my character, trying different trait and skill combinations and actually learning the class. After April 15th the leveling process became mundane, bland, boring and all together horrible. I had 2 trait points to spend.. 2. I did what everyone is doing, I ran EoTM trains to get to 80 then started having fun again.

I want to make an Engineer, but this new system sucks so bad I probably won’t be able to. I really don’t want to grind champ train/EoTM for 79 levels. Leveling in GW2 is no longer fun at all.

blakdoxa.7520:

Lord Kuru.3685:

• Run EoTM karma train until you’re 80.
• Look up a build on the web and with the gold you’ve earned, buy only the traits you need.
• Spend the rest of your gold on gear.
• Begin to play the game.

This is pretty much how Anet wants people to play the game now.

Luckily, I was grandfathered in, don’t waste any time with ascended, and create my own builds.
For everyone else that needs to level… kitten I feel bad for you guys…

Sartharina.3542:

I think people really don’t understand how Guild Wars 2 is supposed to be played, given how much they’re treating it like other MMOs.

Am I the only one to hang around whatever area I feel like simply because I enjoy the scenery and find the enemies fun to fight?

Not everyone has the same motivations. :/
It’s nice to look at and enjoy with the background music for a few times but I don’t understand how you’re “playing the game” if you’re just “looking at the sights.”

The graphics are game assets that create a rather beautiful world, and just moving the camera/avatar around to explore the world and graphics is part of the gameplay. Furthermore, combat is very much part of the game as well as a (usually) engaging and fun standalone system that functions independent of the advancement system and loot lottery the game also comes with. It’s a Hiking Simulator, Action-Adventure game, Virtual Gambling Game, social network, 3-D platformer (Albeit lackluster in this regard, but it’s still fun finding out how to get from Point A to Point B regardless of obstacles in the way), and RPG all wrapped into a single package, to say nothing of the minigames and events scattered throughout that are/can be fun in their own right.

Unfortunately, there are no bar brawls. We were promised bar brawls. They even made a promotional comic advertising bar brawls during development, and there are none in the finished game

Unfortunately, this clusterkitten of a new trait system completely wrecked the RPG progression holding much of the game together.

The new trait aquisition sytem is in conflict with everything they wanted to achieve with it: providing new players with a more simple and transparent system, encouraging experimenting, giving players a better feeling of achievement.

Personally, it enourages me to never create new alts. The whole system is a chore and needs to be fully revamped.

Seraphina.6859:

The new trait aquisition sytem is in conflict with everything they wanted to achieve with it: providing new players with a more simple and transparent system, encouraging experimenting, giving players a better feeling of achievement.

Personally, it enourages me to never create new alts. The whole system is a chore and needs to be fully revamped.

It’s not all a chore. I’ve been leveling an alt under the new system while playing with a friend who never knew the old one, and the solutions are pretty apparent. Really, reading thru this again, it boils down to about 3 simple things to solve it;

1) Distribution of trait points – 1 new = 5 old is fine, but when we get them is the problem. Should be 1 point every five levels starting with 15. That gives you 4 trait points by the time you are level 30, and gives something in the space between skill slot at 20 and your elite. Adept unlocks at level 15, Master at 40, Grandmaster at 70.

2) Location of places to quest for major traits – Not hard really, just move them to zones and events that match their levels as above. Find master traits in areas from Level 40 to 70, and Grandmaster traits in 70+ zones.

3) Costs to learn and early options – Simply put, it is STUPID EXPENSIVE to learn traits and you have very few options to play with traits at lower levels. All Adept Traits (I-VI) should unlock for free by default at level 20 (when you’d first have the option to slot one as proposed in one above). Master and Grandmaster should have their costs to learn at a trainer halved (both coin and skill points) and the quests to unlock should be as above in two.

Seems like from the context of these 19 pages that would make the most people happy.

@Seraphina: My point there was that for people that want to play the high level content (WvW and dungeon runs, etc) they are more or less being forced to research the meta, grind/zerg for the gold and SP to unlock those traits for the meta, then not playing their toon in any other way. i like to explore and all, but i have one of every class and of every race with some dupes in there as well all at level 80. I’ve seen the world Anet has provided so far. Numerous times. Now they are telling me I HAVE to do it all over again on alts that i might make just to unlock a few traits and do content I never enjoyed doing before to unlock other traits. That’s just goofy.

Erick Alastor.3917:

blakdoxa.7520:

Lord Kuru.3685:

• Run EoTM karma train until you’re 80.
• Look up a build on the web and with the gold you’ve earned, buy only the traits you need.
• Spend the rest of your gold on gear.
• Begin to play the game.

This is pretty much how Anet wants people to play the game now.

Luckily, I was grandfathered in, don’t waste any time with ascended, and create my own builds.
For everyone else that needs to level… kitten I feel bad for you guys…

Sartharina.3542:

I think people really don’t understand how Guild Wars 2 is supposed to be played, given how much they’re treating it like other MMOs.

Am I the only one to hang around whatever area I feel like simply because I enjoy the scenery and find the enemies fun to fight?

Not everyone has the same motivations. :/
It’s nice to look at and enjoy with the background music for a few times but I don’t understand how you’re “playing the game” if you’re just “looking at the sights.”

All have their own peculiar way of playing

I giving you and ups for that. xD

Been leveling a new toon with the new trait system. Quite frankly it is nothing but a source of annoyance. The adept traits should be MUCH easier to obtain, not 100% map completion on high level maps…

Give out more trait points sooner, and re-balance the trait unlocks (make them cheaper AND easier), and you might have a good system.

Kylden Ar.3724:

Seraphina.6859:

The new trait aquisition sytem is in conflict with everything they wanted to achieve with it: providing new players with a more simple and transparent system, encouraging experimenting, giving players a better feeling of achievement.

Personally, it enourages me to never create new alts. The whole system is a chore and needs to be fully revamped.

It’s not all a chore. I’ve been leveling an alt under the new system while playing with a friend who never knew the old one, and the solutions are pretty apparent. Really, reading thru this again, it boils down to about 3 simple things to solve it;

1) Distribution of trait points – 1 new = 5 old is fine, but when we get them is the problem. Should be 1 point every five levels starting with 15. That gives you 4 trait points by the time you are level 30, and gives something in the space between skill slot at 20 and your elite. Adept unlocks at level 15, Master at 40, Grandmaster at 70.

2) Location of places to quest for major traits – Not hard really, just move them to zones and events that match their levels as above. Find master traits in areas from Level 40 to 70, and Grandmaster traits in 70+ zones.

3) Costs to learn and early options – Simply put, it is STUPID EXPENSIVE to learn traits and you have very few options to play with traits at lower levels. All Adept Traits (I-VI) should unlock for free by default at level 20 (when you’d first have the option to slot one as proposed in one above). Master and Grandmaster should have their costs to learn at a trainer halved (both coin and skill points) and the quests to unlock should be as above in two.

Seems like from the context of these 19 pages that would make the most people happy.

This would DEFINITELY be an improvement over the current system, and one I hope the devs are paying attention to.

PookieDaWombat.6209:

@Seraphina: My point there was that for people that want to play the high level content (WvW and dungeon runs, etc) they are more or less being forced to research the meta, grind/zerg for the gold and SP to unlock those traits for the meta, then not playing their toon in any other way. i like to explore and all, but i have one of every class and of every race with some dupes in there as well all at level 80. I’ve seen the world Anet has provided so far. Numerous times. Now they are telling me I HAVE to do it all over again on alts that i might make just to unlock a few traits and do content I never enjoyed doing before to unlock other traits. That’s just goofy.

I completely understand your point, but why do you address this to me? I just expressed my feelings about the new trait acquisition system; that it is a very bad implementation of a good idea. The way trait aquisition works now encourages the playstyle you and others have described: rush to lvl 80 and get only the meta traits, thus throwing build diversity and experimenting out of the window.

My issues with the trait system in more detail:

I.
I have explored the world of Tyria numerous times, I have 10 gift of explorations in my bank…. I like exploring maps, but the idea to attach traits to them is horrible for several reasons: 1. you may need that trait to help explore the map , 2. many traits are assigned to areas way above the appropriate level (Fireheart Rise, Frostgorge Sound), though it can be addressed easily 3. exploring maps is not everyone’s cup of tea… it becomes tedious for the 2nd or 3rd time, so the process becomes extremely repetitive with alts after a while.

II.
Anet, again, tries to “encourage” players to go and play WvW despite the fact that whenever the living story made players go to WvW maps, there was a negative outcry from the playerbase on the forums. Also, there were numerous threads about questioning why world completion is tied to WvW until they blatantly said that it was for driving more pve players to WvW hoping they will love it and return. While that time you could say that you don’t need that achievement point or the little star beside your name, it is not necessary to play the game; this time you have to go there for some of your traits. Traits are essential for character development and shouldn’t be tied to one game mode. I understand the opposite side, too. Players who just want to pvp and WvW should have their own modes of acquiring traits in WvW and pvp maps. Many pve players don’t like to go to WvW because they don’t like playing against other players, and are being afraid of ganking and griefing (which can happen a lot in Obsidian Sanctum where you get your falling damage reduction trait now).

III.

Leveling a character is even more boring now that until lvl 30 you don’t get trait points and after that there is a long hiatus between new trait points.

IV.

I can’t go and hunt for my level appropriate traits since most of them are way above my level.

That is why I said this new system is a chore for me: I can’t get most of my traits so the best solution would be to just powerlevel to 80 and bother with traits after that. Where is the fun in that? (and no way I will buy them, they are too expensive and again where is the fun in that?)

I wonder if he mistook my name for yours, after my comment about playing the game for reasons other than Zerg Training/Loot acquisition. That said, I am in agreement that the current system does discourage not rushing to 80 because of the difficulty in acquiring traits – the ones that veterans have unlocked for being veterans should be unlocked for everyone, and not be treated as something special. And that’s a crippling mark against the game. I used to be able to play how I wanted and fight whatever I wanted to fight wherever I wanted to (Assuming I was high enough level) simply for the thrill of the game (I actually got sick of leveling too fast to enjoy all the content at a level-appropriate pace. Being overleveled takes too much challenge out of the game, even when it’s just at the top of the area!), without having level-appropriate content deprived from me (As trait locking currently does), and having each level (or at least level range) provide enough tools and toys for me to enjoy playing around with in level-appropriate content (Which the 70 dead levels, and too-late access to traits, have taken from me.)

I do see the potential for new, locked ‘adept’ and other low-level traits to be intended for high-level or determined low-level characters that need something more complex or powerful in their earlier trait slots that don’t compete for the highest trait slot available, but not all traits should be locked like this. The original array of unlocked traits gave players enough to mess around with and explore different playstyles before having to need to hunt for new ones, and I’d like that back. Even if we don’t get all traits unlocked, there should be at least 3 or 5 ‘free’ traits in each tree of each tier.

On the subject of buying traits (And other things people want locked behind gameplay content) – the fun is in doing the tasks that give you the cash/skill points that you spend on the stuff you want. I actually think I like the game using Skill Points as an alternative currency measuring player accomplishment.

Sartharina.3542:

I wonder if he mistook my name for yours, after my comment about playing the game for reasons other than Zerg Training/Loot acquisition. That said, I am in agreement that the current system does discourage not rushing to 80 because of the difficulty in acquiring traits – the ones that veterans have unlocked for being veterans should be unlocked for everyone, and not be treated as something special. And that’s a crippling mark against the game. I used to be able to play how I wanted and fight whatever I wanted to fight wherever I wanted to (Assuming I was high enough level) simply for the thrill of the game (I actually got sick of leveling too fast to enjoy all the content at a level-appropriate pace. Being overleveled takes too much challenge out of the game, even when it’s just at the top of the area!), without having level-appropriate content deprived from me (As trait locking currently does), and having each level (or at least level range) provide enough tools and toys for me to enjoy playing around with in level-appropriate content (Which the 70 dead levels, and too-late access to traits, have taken from me.)

I do see the potential for new, locked ‘adept’ and other low-level traits to be intended for high-level or determined low-level characters that need something more complex or powerful in their earlier trait slots that don’t compete for the highest trait slot available, but not all traits should be locked like this. The original array of unlocked traits gave players enough to mess around with and explore different playstyles before having to need to hunt for new ones, and I’d like that back. Even if we don’t get all traits unlocked, there should be at least 3 or 5 ‘free’ traits in each tree of each tier.

On the subject of buying traits (And other things people want locked behind gameplay content) – the fun is in doing the tasks that give you the cash/skill points that you spend on the stuff you want. I actually think I like the game using Skill Points as an alternative currency measuring player accomplishment.

You would be correct on the name confusion. :p Stop that.

But yes i agree with both of you that it all needs to be brought down to more level appropriate tasks that encourages exploration/variety without forcing content on players needlessly.

Its just frustrating that we ALL seem to see how it can be fixed, but we aren’t even getting a nod from Anet that they are seeing this and seriously considering all we’ve said.

It is good that we agree on most of the issues. Let’s keep this thread on the first page!

Like others, I’ve been playing this game since beta. I have a pack of 80’s and have played every class and race. I made a new toon to try out this system and it sucks. For reasons others have pointed out…

I don’t like the way it limits playstyle by requiring PvE, PvP, or WvW. Yes, you can pay gold and sacrifice skills to get your traits, but the costs are very limiting. This does not promote trait versatility at all.

I find it unreasonable to require L70-80 content for a L36 trait of any kind.

I would not mind unlocking traits if they happened in the course of my gameplay. It would feel good to do something and have a pop-up message tell me I’ve unlocked a new trait. As it is, I don’t even get trait rewards every level. It feels bad and makes leveling a slog.

I hit 36 and realized I don’t even get a starter trait! I have to go out of my way to earn every single one of those things or sacrifice my skills and gold to buy them. I tried to figure out how to unlock them with the spyglass attached to the trait and many just give me a very brief look at a map I’ve yet to enter. If I have parts of the map explored, the trait spyglass will tell me what I need to do, but let’s face it… many of the beginning traits are completely unattainable at L36 without some friends power-leveling you.

What happened to GW2’s “horizontal progression”? Did this game need to jump on the all-endgame bandwagon? The new trait system is all about endgame rewards and results. I thought GW2 wanted to do something different, but it’s steering itself toward a leveling-grind, a push to endgame in order to really play the game, and forcing players to pay huge penalties for choosing to play the game the way they want. I’m very disappointed.

I say remove levels.

also why this thread on second page?

I am very disappointed with this huge departure from the Manifesto, I stopped leveling alts.

Aside from the retrait in the field, I completely dislike this new scheme. Old way was fine.

Level’d a few before this new trait system. Never did it feel like a grind or painful. Now because of lack of basic traits, characters are much weaker at lower levels. Started an alt to test this out and yes it’s painful. All I want to do is get to 80 so I can start the adventure.

I know people tend to say this a lot when complaining, but I think this whole trait mess is just evidence that the people at ANet don’t really play the game, not in the way players do. Maybe they play just to make sure things work “right” but I cannot understand how they could actively play the game as a player and think “hm, for an Adept trait at lvl 36… lets require them to 100% a 70-80 zone. That sounds about right”.

An argument could be made for that requirement if the trait was significantly better than all the other Adept traits but lets face it, almost all traits are equally rubbish. I feel that if ANet wants to keep these ridiculous requirements for specific traits, then they need to rework each trait and make them significantly better to justify it.

But thats a lot of work and would require more trait re-tooling than they’ve done in the 2 years since launch. The only solution I feel they’re capable of is to revert the system all together.

Realistically, though, this is ANet and they’re as stubborn as they come so we’re likely stuck with this garbage.

I had a few friends asking if they should buy GW2 while it’s half off.

I told them about the trait changes and they were like “Wow, no way do I want to play this now”.
I feel really bad for the people who DID buy it half off and are now realizing all the stupid kitten they have to do to unlock their traits.

Smashing job Anet

Kylden Ar.3724:

2) Location of places to quest for major traits – Not hard really, just move them to zones and events that match their levels as above. Find master traits in areas from Level 40 to 70, and Grandmaster traits in 70+ zones.

It also depends on what is required for the trait.

Of the five new Grandmaster traits, for example “Find the grand chest in the Ship of Sorrows” is soloable and easy. The Karka Queen is on a timer, so you know when to be there and can expect to have help (but if it’s off your play schedule, you’re screwed). The Temple of Grenth and the Promenade of the Gods are unscheduled group events, you need help and a little luck, but wait an hour and the defense events that count for these achievements should replay.

The very worst, however, is the temple of Lyssa. It’s a group event, so it requires help. It’s unscheduled, so you need luck to find when it runs. Worst of all, it’s one that can be blocked by griefers. Doesn’t matter how much time you spend in the zone waiting for the event to happen, if one or two people decide to do the defense event, you can’t get the trait. One of the reasons I liked this game so much was that ANet went to such lengths to block meaningful griefing from PvE sections of the game.

I think it’s the inconsistency of the requirements beyond even the lack of association between the level required to get the trait and the level at which the trait can be learned that bugs me the most:
Chest / Jumping Puzzle completion for traits is soloable and quick if you can jump.
Map completion and Personal Story missions for traits are annoying due to the effort involved, but can be achieved through individual effort.
World Bosses require a lot of people, but are on a schedule and you have a reasonable chance of earning it in a few attempts.
Random non-World Boss champions require a group of friends willing to go out of their way (or a good guild, like mine).
Story Dungeons require time and a group and seem a way to force people to run the neglected and unrewarding story-mode dungeons.
WvW trait unlocks are just mean. Wrong color? No trait for you. Weak server with strong opponents? No trait for you. And to make one of the hardest JPs in the game for people that aren’t good at PvP or jumping puzzles a trait unlocker seems extra cruel.

Kumion.7580:

What happened to GW2’s “horizontal progression”? Did this game need to jump on the all-endgame bandwagon? The new trait system is all about endgame rewards and results. I thought GW2 wanted to do something different, but it’s steering itself toward a leveling-grind, a push to endgame in order to really play the game, and forcing players to pay huge penalties for choosing to play the game the way they want. I’m very disappointed.

What’s even sadder is that there isn’t that much “traditional endgame” to speak of, at least from a PvE perspective.

You have
1) Big world bosses that you can realistically only kill maybe once a day if your schedule allows it (unless you’re a neet)
2) Dungeons
3) Fractals
4) Living Story that you can never go back and do if you missed it

And that’s it. Contrast with SWTOR (easy example for me, since it’s my other main MMO) where you have

1) Tactical flashpoints (dungeons) that do not require the holy trinity to complete
2) Hard Mode flashpoints
3) FOUR different raids with 3 different difficulty modes (Okay, okay, so nightmare mode DP isn’t out yet, but it will be in around a month)
4) Multiple daily quest areas
5) Recurring events like Gree/Bounty Contract Week

And tbh SWTOR is on the light end when it comes to end-game content imho. It blows GW2 out of the water with the sheer amount of things you can do, and that’s not even counting Galactic Starfighter, which was a pvp-only expansion.

If Anet wants to change GW2 to be end-game focused, they ought to ACTUALLY PUT THINGS IN THE ENDGAME

Kylden Ar.3724:

Seraphina.6859:

The new trait aquisition sytem is in conflict with everything they wanted to achieve with it: providing new players with a more simple and transparent system, encouraging experimenting, giving players a better feeling of achievement.

Personally, it enourages me to never create new alts. The whole system is a chore and needs to be fully revamped.

It’s not all a chore. I’ve been leveling an alt under the new system while playing with a friend who never knew the old one, and the solutions are pretty apparent. Really, reading thru this again, it boils down to about 3 simple things to solve it;

1) Distribution of trait points – 1 new = 5 old is fine, but when we get them is the problem. Should be 1 point every five levels starting with 15. That gives you 4 trait points by the time you are level 30, and gives something in the space between skill slot at 20 and your elite. Adept unlocks at level 15, Master at 40, Grandmaster at 70.

2) Location of places to quest for major traits – Not hard really, just move them to zones and events that match their levels as above. Find master traits in areas from Level 40 to 70, and Grandmaster traits in 70+ zones.

3) Costs to learn and early options – Simply put, it is STUPID EXPENSIVE to learn traits and you have very few options to play with traits at lower levels. All Adept Traits (I-VI) should unlock for free by default at level 20 (when you’d first have the option to slot one as proposed in one above). Master and Grandmaster should have their costs to learn at a trainer halved (both coin and skill points) and the quests to unlock should be as above in two.

Seems like from the context of these 19 pages that would make the most people happy.

I would say this sounds better.
Even though I would like to get an option for doing a trait unlock activity and decide myself which trait to unlock. Also maybe not all Adept’s should be unlocked, but you can unlock one (by choice) when you get your second point and another one on your fourth and sixth trait point. On the 8th and 10th you can choose from choose a Master trait and on the 12th and 14th a Gm trait. All other traits need to be unlocked by the system. Just my vision of the system.

Also, make all former (before April 15th) traits unlocked in PvP again. Why would anyone want to go into sPvP without traits… It’s not even funny how beaten up you would get. And it’s not like you become lvl 30 in sPvP after 5 games.

so I just started a new character. I expected it’d feel slower and less interesting to level characters, and I was right. Not to mention that most of the encounters are now far easier than before, which seems to me, means that new players won’t be discovering the mechanics of the game, why would you learn to dodge when you can plow through easy mobs?

But I digress, I’m now reaching level 30 and so though I’d look up exactly how we unlock low level traits under the new system.

I can’t believe how awful this system is supposed to be. I keep thinking it must be a joke. Half of the adept tier traits I’ll want to use and have the trait points for at level 36, I won’t be able to use because they’re locked behind a paywall or level 45-60 content.

Seriously someone please tell me this is a joke? The paywall itself is downright offensive, considering the whole set used to cost ten silver, but now to pay that plus skill points for a single trait that’s gated behind content I’m not high enough level for? That’s just ludicrous.

It basically makes trait points almost entirely useless until at least level 45 in what is basically the best case scenario. At worst you won’t be able to get a desired trait for a two point investment until you’re level 60! Most of them aren’t exactly small feats either. I can understand the new grandmaster traits requiring some hefty work, but having to complete a whole map, which is over ten levels higher than your character to get a weaker talent of which there are 6 per line is just plain sadism.

What’s even more disgusting, is that many of these skills are locked behind different game modes, that not everyone will want to play. ANET is basically forcing people to play content they have no interest in, just to get talents. Goodbye “play your way” hello “play however we tell you or go screw yourselves”.

Frankly, I’d rather not play than be forced to play content I have no interest in. I’ll delete my character before I go through the crappy dungeon zerk fests or WvW zerg trains just to unlock a talent.

This system needs to be completely reworked.

Edit: it’s even more offensive than I thought. Some adept skills require level 80 content.

The three main traits that I want, all adept require:

1.Jumping puzzle, hidden in WvW where, I’d have to survive, uplevelled in sub-level gear, with no traits against full level 80s in level 80 gear with full traits, just to do another awful JP not to mention getting through it without being killed by said level 80 player.

2. Capture a point in WvW with an uplevelled toon, with low level gear and no traits, against full level 80s with level 80 gear and full traits

3. Complete a level 50-60 map.

In other words, to begin customising my character I have to wait to at least 50 and still fight in WvW, which I can’t stand, in other to do a JP which I can’t stand and hope that I’m lucky enough to not get massacred by vastly more powerful players before I reach the objectives.

Good job Anet, you even managed to screw up the simple act of levelling characters. Trivialising the majority of the open world game content in the process, just so you can force pvp on everyone.

Good job.

Traits should be unlocked like before. Why the kitten should I have to do kittenty pve areas just so I can use traits. It’s pathetic that anet has forced us to do kitten we don’t want to do just to get the traits we want.

Another terrible thing the trait system did was require a nerf to world mobs, taking what used to be fun, engaging combat and reducing it to a simple faceroll without payoff.

I’m struggling to find redeeming qualities in the new trait system, but come up blank.

This new trait system just encourages people to k-train EoTM until level 80, and only then begin playing the game. This is not the type of gameplay that’s good for customer retention.

Sartharina.3542:

I think people really don’t understand how Guild Wars 2 is supposed to be played, given how much they’re treating it like other MMOs.

Am I the only one to hang around whatever area I feel like simply because I enjoy the scenery and find the enemies fun to fight?

You can do that in any RPG or FPS game it doesn’t mean your way is the “right” way. And who the kitten are you to say how a game that was touted as “play the way you want to play” is supposed to be played any ways.

The biggest thing I keep wondering is why the hell did they do this to traits rather than skills. They should put all the traits back to how it was before and then attach skills to events and things instead. So we still get to have the skill hunting but we get to keep our leveling progression so you feel stronger as you level. Any new traits should just get added to the list. For new skills maybe add a new area and attach them to completion of an event or boss there.

There is so many better ideas than what we got. I have no idea what they were thinking.

Edit: As soon as I hit reply I figured out the answer to my question. They want to charge for stuff you already got for free. Nothing more nothing less.

Personally, I think the way skills are acquired is okay. I don’t want them to change it. Hunting for traits would have been interesting, but it needs a way more sophisticated and thoughtout system than what we got.

Crossaber.8934:

Actually i quite enjoy the trait system. Yes, some adept tier traits are locked out by hard content to my level, but because of this i am able to use another unlocked trait that i was never planned to use. This way i have a much better knowledge on the class i am using, and this also increased the interest level too. (as i mentioned it is least interest to me)

I have a habit to finish the map 100% before move on (don’t wanna spend loading time come back for the missing POI or waypoint later), this allow me to get surprise trait unlock everytime i finish a map.

I think GW2 vet will not like this complex trait system like most of these post, but as a new player, the system can help them know better their class, try more different traits and go into the open PvE world more. The limitation on some trait unlock is to guide the player to try out some weaker trait first then to go straight into a superior trait. The fun is actually there.

I play exactly like you. Finish a map 100% before moving on. And yet, I don’t like this trait system. Or at least the part where you simply cannot get certain adept traits without being lvl80 first. Or the part where you simply cannot get a trait because you constantly get killed a certain JP. Or the part where you simply cannot get a trait because you cannot enter a WvW map in the time you play. Or the part where you simply cannot get a trait because the boss you need to kill is only available at times you are asleep or at work. Need I go on?

After looking at the wiki for trait locations, I can tell already that I won’t be able to unlock most traits at trait line 3 for instance.

I Defeat Fleshgrazer : get lucky so you can get the door open, then get lucky to get a group that doesn’t die in the first all.

II Complete the story step “The Battle for Claw Island.”: adept trait, for a lvl50 PS?

III Capture Stonegaze Spire.: where can I find this?

IV Defeat Victurus the Shattered and his army.: isn’t that the boss in Iron Marches that is always ignored? LFG for event because I need a trait!

V Earn 100% completion in the Fields of Ruin.: hey, actually one that is doable!

VI Earn 100% completion in Iron Marches.: another one!

VII Befriend the dredge camp so they will join you as allies.: where is this dredge camp?

VIII Complete Sorrow’s Embrace in Story Mode.: nice, LFG for dungeon because I need a trait!

IX Defeat Vidius Flame Tribune.: The same type of boss as IV. LFG for event because I need a trait!

X Complete the story step “The Battle of Fort Trinity.”: another one that’s doable.

XI Find the locked door at the end of the forgotten stream.: huh?

XII Defeat the Risen Priest of Melandru.: I hope they changed this one to defeat priest or defend temple…

XIII Defeat the Karka Queen. : first spawn: middle of the night. second spawn: work/lunch, third spawn: dinner.

So, to get my personal traits, I need a group for 4 of them. 3 of them I’ve not even heard of the location. 1 is simply impossible for me to get in my timezone and my schedule, 3 are doable, one might be (depending if they changed it), 1 is simply in an area too high for the trait level.

Yep, fun those new traits. So, I’d never be welcome in any dungeon group because I simply would be missing traits. And get them with SP? Even on my older characters I don’t even have all skills unlocked yet. How would I even get the SP’s for anything else?

I’ve been watching the trends for a time now and I’ve noticed something else. With these new XIII traits there really isn’t much choice for the typical styles of play we have in the game, you can’t choose something that would improve your gameplay for a particular build because it’s entirely too restrictive.

For example, people have been talking about healing builds on engineers lately. The Bunker Down trait would be perfect for this, but instead of placing it where it would be most useful like in the Explosives line or the lines with Toughness or Vitality we have it in the Firearms line something no healer would actually choose. So it basically becomes useless we can’t place them anywhere we need them.

I think they should free up the XIII traits allow them to be placed in the grandmaster section of any line to optimize their usefulness, so that you know we can have real diversity in the builds again.

I am a new player who purchased this game as part of the sale that is currently on. As a lot of the guides and other online materials I looked up for information still reflect the old system where traits became available at level 11, I was looking forward to reaching level 30 and gaining access to this system that, apparently, has a significant impact on the strength of my character. I’ve seen the trainers that sell the trait guides, but presently for me money is scarce and skill points scarcer still, and I would rather not have to hamper my progression in another area (skill acquisition) to be able to access these traits that can also be earned out in the world. So I went to the wiki to find out what I needed to do to unlock my first traits.

Frankly, I was dumbfounded. I think I can count on one hand the number of objectives that appear doable as a traitless level 30. Most of them ask me to do content I won’t have access to for tens of levels. One even demands 100% completion of a zone designated as level 70-80! Then there are the ones telling me to venture into PvP areas, when A) I don’t really like PvP, and B) I’m probably going to get destroyed by people who already have their traits, good equipment, etc. There are also a lot of them requiring completion of group events or dungeons. I’ve already seen a number of group events go ignored because nobody in the area cares to do them, and I’m rather turned off from dungeons at the moment due to the fact that I don’t know any of the strategies, and the emphasis for most people seems to be on speedrunning with little tolerance for players who can’t perform at peak efficiency.

This is, quite frankly, the most discouraging thing I’ve run into since I started this game. The objectives required for the trait guides are so absurd and out of line with the level the traits actually become available that it seems designed to force you to buy the guides instead. I can appreciate the concept of a money sink, but this specifically hits new players, aka the least wealthy members of the playerbase, and not long-timers who already unlocked their traits under the old system, who are the people most likely to have money and skill points to burn. I absolutely cannot fathom the logic behind this system. It seems to be designed under the assumption that every character is a wealthy level 80 who can freely choose to purchase the guides or seek out the objectives. For a new player with neither an excess of money/skill points nor the ability to complete an array of objectives requiring level 55+ to unlock level 30 traits, this system feels like a brick wall set up purely to obstruct character progression.

Lobo Dela Noche.5127:

For new skills maybe add a new area and attach them to completion of an event or boss there.

There is so many better ideas than what we got. I have no idea what they were thinking.

Edit: As soon as I hit reply I figured out the answer to my question. They want to charge for stuff you already got for free. Nothing more nothing less.

I’m not happy with the 4/15 update any more than you are, I think. However I do believe a part of their intent was to spread the traits out just about everywhere so it would pull people to those locations. Doing as you suggest, making a new location/event just for the sake of gaining a new trait or skill would only promote another giant blob of people at that new location/event.

Perhaps I’m giving them way too much credit here though… as much of what the did has achieved just that. Some horrible things have been created with good intentions, this is no different.

LadyRhonwyn.2501:

III Capture Stonegaze Spire.: where can I find this?

VII Befriend the dredge camp so they will join you as allies.: where is this dredge camp?

XI Find the locked door at the end of the forgotten stream.: huh?

III. Stonegaze Spire is is a tower in the NW section of Edge of Mists WvW map.
VII. The dredge camp is in the NW section of Eternal Battlegrounds WvW map.
XI. The door is Cursed Shores behind the Cathedral of Verdance.

I had to look up the PvP locations for my planned traits, too, as I’d never heard of them. I don’t PvP. I don’t like it and I won’t spend GAME time being frustrated by it— especially on a traitless L36 character! The idea is so absurd it makes me laugh.

Sartharina.3542:

I think people really don’t understand how Guild Wars 2 is supposed to be played, given how much they’re treating it like other MMOs.

To be fair, I think that’s as much to do with ArenaNet forgetting it as the players.

Shortly after launch, when we were constantly getting “I’ve done everything and I’m too underleveled for the next zone” threads, I made your argument repeatedly. I thought the game was beautifully designed so that if you tried to barrel through and power-level you actually got less experience and other rewards than if you took time and really soaked in the game.

Unfortunately, post-launch ArenaNet has made a lot of design decisions that focus more on extrinsic rather than intrinsic rewards. For some reason they’ve chosen to reward farm-type play (repeating the same dungeon, champ trains, world bosses on timers, daily checklist) rather than immersing oneself in the world.

I speak as someone who, at the start, played like you describe. Doing things for the fun of it. Over time, I slowly started to get caught up in the carrot-chase, to the point where I had to take a break from the game to get my head clear, so to speak. Now I’m back and playing that way again, ignoring the reward structure that wants me to repeat content and check off to-do lists.

It’s only partly player habit from other MMORPGs that gets GW2 players focused on rewards rather than play. You can definitely play this game in a “smell the roses” type fashion, but you have to ignore that ArenaNet keeps trying to entice you not to.

I have played since the beta..
This is a new account for me. . I bought this and started it after the BIG FIX. I have found the new trait system a GAME KILLER. Why do you keep trying to kill this game’? This is one of the worse nerfs of the game since… forever.
At the very, very least you could have made the traits unlocked ACCOUNT BOUND instead of having to do the same thing over and over with each toon. GAME KILLER.. I can see new players quitting left and right now. I know no one in our Guild now wants to make new toons now. Brilliant move. Brilliant move. One of the best…..

What sucks to me is i bought the game not long ago and was experimenting with each class to get a feel for the game i even bought 2 more character slots because i knew i would make more, i really enjoyed the play through i had and recommended the game to my friends who were purchasing it back in April, which after this Trait update ruined my entire game play experience and fun i told them not to buy Gw2 until the trait system is fixed, encouraging them it would be since it’s a big part of the game. To no avail has Anet responded to this feature or its consumers/players which is disappointing since it looked as though it cared for players and wanted a great merge to their MMO by stopping Sub fee and having a no Grind policy. Which they screwed over, so wouldn’t surprise me if they brought a sub fee in one day. Moving to ESO with a large group of friends, both from Gw2 and some who were on their way to getting. Lucky they didn’t buy it. It’s not the fact of the trait system itself but the fact that not a single recommendation has been made about the subject.

Only need 1 of 2 answers.

Yes we are going to fix the trait system in due time.
or
No we are not going to change the system as we believe its good. (Even though its so bad we should be ashamed it was released)

So yep. Trait system = Worst design ever made.
No response from devs/anet. No excuse since its a major part of the game.
Doesn’t deserve time.
Good luck to new players. Your experience will be horrible unless you want to devote a few years to it.

Chiming in for a +1 to the list of disappointed players.
After trying out the new system, I will not be making any more characters.
I don’t think any further explanation is required at this point.

Don’t know if it was mentioned already and i’m not going to read through 19 pages to find out. But i have a problem with the fact that i have two eles one of which was already lvl 80 and had all the skills. i had assumed that my lower level ele would have all the traits unlocked since i had technically earned them already. But now i have to go back through and either buy them all or run around doing events that are finished two minutes after it spawns. In a nutshell are the players that have two alts of the same class kittened or is anet eventually going to adjust this.

Like the above player, I bought the game recently ( Dec 2013). I put a fair amount of time into it. I have a level 80 ranger and every other class except Mesmer, all of those leveled between 30 and 35. I tried this new trait system for a few days and it just isn’t fun. I have not logged onto my account in three weeks and don’t see me logging on again unless something drastically changes with the trait system. I don’t know who designed this mess, but the deciding factor is it just makes the game a lot less fun. For the life of me, I don’t know why you did it.

I also noticed since the patch the game has dropped from #6 to #10 ( Below Hearthstone) on Xfire. If the complaints in this thread aren’t enough to convince you that you have made some game breaking mistakes in the patch, surely the drop in popularity should get your attention. Or perhas you’re going to wait until it drops out of the top 20?

ANET or NCSOFT..19 pages of ripping this trait system apart.. are you listening to YOUR players or playing WoW?

Two Strikes.6107:

ANET or NCSOFT..19 pages of ripping this trait system apart.. are you listening to YOUR players or playing WoW?

or maybe ANET and NCSOFT are playing FFXIV.. that seems to be where GW is going.. boring and grinding

So I tried an Engineer Burst DPS build today using Gadgets + Toolbelt Lightning + Rifle. Guess what I had to give up. Most of the other boons, all of the Rifle line and None of the Alchemy Line. It was an attempt to see if I could successfully make use of the Gadget Boon XIII trait. Nope completely useless because not only could I not build enough Condition/Precision/Power to make it worth while in PVE I couldn’t get boons that made any difference in the play style.

XIII traits need to float if diversity is at all going to be the goal of this!