Guild Wars 2

I know this topic has been brought up before but…

I’m sick of payin taxes on gems from the bltc… they stopped selling gem cards locally on which I’ve never had to pay taxes on ‘Target or Gamestop’
$25 card I pay $25 … zero tax

This is such a scam.

As much money I have paid in gem taxes I would have tens of thousand of gems in my account.

Why???

Is this ever going to resolved or is this just going to keep irratating me every kitten time I support the game by buying gems?

You can blame your state for having to pay tax; it’s not Anet’s fault.

ArenaNet has nothing to do with your state tax.

I’m confused what do you mean a “gem tax”?

There’s not a tax for cash transactions with A-net from my experience… 50$ purchase from the black lion = 50$ gem cash card.

If its a state tax, thats not A-net :P

Do you mean when you buy gems with gold? If so, I really don’t think in game gold tax vs RL money tax is a good comparison.

Ummmmm you do realize that taxes are from your government don’t you? They require businesses to collect and send the taxes to them. If you don’t like it, write your government about it but don’t expect ANet to stop obeying the law.

Well I’m guessing you’re in the US. Why not just buy those prepaid VISA cards and then reload it when it gets low?

Just get a paypal account.

Miku.6297:

I’m confused what do you mean a “gem tax”?

There’s not a tax for cash transactions with A-net from my experience… 50$ purchase from the black lion = 50$ gem cash card.

If its a state tax, thats not A-net :P

Do you mean when you buy gems with gold? If so, I really don’t think in game gold tax vs RL money tax is a good comparison.

Buying gems with US dollars.

I have never paid tax on a gem card purchase.

But Anet stopped selling gem cards in Houston Texas at Targets and Gamestops, once they stopped selling cards at these retailers I had to start buying them through bltc with a credit card and now a $20 gem puchase cost $21.80

Other game or gift card purchases … in store or online does not charge me tax.
Only Gw2

Substance E.4852:

Just get a paypal account.

It is paid with paypal.

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Ummmmm you do realize that taxes are from your government don’t you? They require businesses to collect and send the taxes to them. If you don’t like it, write your government about it but don’t expect ANet to stop obeying the law.

Then why other games I play do not charge a tax on there game cards… are you saying the government has it in for Houston Guilg Wars 2 players.

If you are upset over $1.80 then you have bigger issues than taxes.

There were gem cards?

Oh wow, there’s some at my local Best Buy!

Cazamar.7148:

If you are upset over $1.80 then you have bigger issues than taxes.

Times that by 50 plus all the future purches, Mr. Money bags.

Derez.6510:

Miku.6297:

I’m confused what do you mean a “gem tax”?

There’s not a tax for cash transactions with A-net from my experience… 50$ purchase from the black lion = 50$ gem cash card.

If its a state tax, thats not A-net :P

Do you mean when you buy gems with gold? If so, I really don’t think in game gold tax vs RL money tax is a good comparison.

Buying gems with US dollars.

I have never paid tax on a gem card purchase.

But Anet stopped selling gem cards in Houston Texas at Targets and Gamestops, once they stopped selling cards at these retailers I had to start buying them through bltc with a credit card and now a $20 gem puchase cost $21.80

Other game or gift card purchases … in store or online does not charge me tax.
Only Gw2

In Houston they shoud have charged you sales tax 8.25% in store at gamestop and target. Unless Houston has some sort of tax exemption on these type of cards each county/state have different tax laws on different items. Paying taxes is how life works or would you rather live in 3rd world conditons?

http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/texas-internet-sales-tax.html
If you are selling goods or products online and some of your customers are located in Texas, you need to be aware of the state’s Internet sales tax rules.

I wish I was Mr. Moneybags. I just know better than to get upset over something I can not change. Death and taxes as they say.

Poor kitty. I have a foreign currency exchange fee to deal with. The good news is that gem cards are now available in my country. Maybe that’s where yours went.

If there are taxes collected then it’s because the government requires it. Maybe the government has not yet passed a law saying that gem cards need to be taxed but if they do require it, then the company must collect it. In this case, buying gems from the gem store requires ANet to collect taxes for it.

Derez.6510:

Substance E.4852:

Just get a paypal account.

It is paid with paypal.

Then you must be doing something wrong because I only ever get charged the flat $10 amount for 800gems.

And that’ in good ol’ Cook County Ill with sales tax so high you’d think our roads were paved with gold rather than just potholes and tears.

JediYoda.1275:

Derez.6510:

Miku.6297:

I’m confused what do you mean a “gem tax”?

There’s not a tax for cash transactions with A-net from my experience… 50$ purchase from the black lion = 50$ gem cash card.

If its a state tax, thats not A-net :P

Do you mean when you buy gems with gold? If so, I really don’t think in game gold tax vs RL money tax is a good comparison.

Buying gems with US dollars.

I have never paid tax on a gem card purchase.

But Anet stopped selling gem cards in Houston Texas at Targets and Gamestops, once they stopped selling cards at these retailers I had to start buying them through bltc with a credit card and now a $20 gem puchase cost $21.80

Other game or gift card purchases … in store or online does not charge me tax.
Only Gw2

In Houston they shoud have charged you sales tax 8.25% in store at gamestop and target. Unless Houston has some sort of tax exemption on these type of cards each county/state have different tax laws on different items. Paying taxes is how life works or would you rather live in 3rd world conditons?

http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/texas-internet-sales-tax.html
If you are selling goods or products online and some of your customers are located in Texas, you need to be aware of the state’s Internet sales tax rules.

This is what has me confused too… I wasn’t aware gamestop/target would be exempt from paying the sales tax in TX. I’m confused as to why hes being charged a state sales tax for an online purchase, but doesn’t pay them in a brick n mortar store xD…

Substance E.4852:

Derez.6510:

Substance E.4852:

Just get a paypal account.

It is paid with paypal.

Then you must be doing something wrong because I only ever get charged the flat $10 amount for 800gems.

It doesn’t mean they are doing anything wrong tax rates and laws are different for everyone.

I just bought my son a $12.99 game on Steam… it didn’t charge me tax.

His xBox Live, WOW, Rift and Defiance cards doesn’t charge tax.

I’m starting to think the Houston trying to discourage it’s citizens from playing GW2.

Can’t help but feel like a reference to the Boston Tea Party is ill-advised here.

Possibly due to the state possibly not requiring gift cards to be taxed.

Since a direct purchase of gems is not the purchase of a gift card and I believe ANet’s NA server is physically located in Texas, it does mean that ANet has a physical presence in Texas and therefore must charge players in Texas for sales tax when they buy gems directly. Even if gift cards are exempt in the state.

Did you buy these games and other codes using a gift card or with your credit card?

I think I found how this is working.

“SALES TAX -Texas –
Store Gift Cards and Gift Certificates
No sales tax is due on the sale of a gift card. The actual sale of gift cards is not subject to Texas sales, use or mixed beverage taxes since the card represents an intangible – the “right” to a future purchase. Instead, tax is calculated when a card is redeemed.

When the gift card is redeemed for merchandise either by the original purchaser or another who may have received the card as a gift, the gift card is treated like cash given for the purchase of the item. If the item purchased is taxable, sales tax is due on the full sales price including any amount paid with the use of the gift card."

Buying a gem card, is being treated as a “gift card”. That’s the only posable reason I can see. The “gift card” would be exempt from tax in store, then when redeemed it’s worth 800 gems(sorry never bought cards so Im not sure about the exact gem amount). So A-net gives the claimer 800gems, there is no further cash transaction so no tax. When buying them online from A-net directly you are not buying a “gift card” so you are being charged tax. Yes it’s kind of a loophole as a gem cards value is not the same as a gift card, but as I said that’s the only way I can see this happening.

Seera.5916:

Possibly due to the state possibly not requiring gift cards to be taxed.

Since a direct purchase of gems is not the purchase of a gift card and I believe ANet’s NA server is physically located in Texas, it does mean that ANet has a physical presence in Texas and therefore must charge players in Texas for sales tax when they buy gems directly. Even if gift cards are exempt in the state.

That would explain it.

I wonder why it just started charging the tax mid 2014 with direct gem purchases.

Miku.6297:

Did you buy these games and other codes using a gift card or with your credit card?

I think I found how this is working.

“SALES TAX -Texas –
Store Gift Cards and Gift Certificates
No sales tax is due on the sale of a gift card. The actual sale of gift cards is not subject to Texas sales, use or mixed beverage taxes since the card represents an intangible – the “right” to a future purchase. Instead, tax is calculated when a card is redeemed.

When the gift card is redeemed for merchandise either by the original purchaser or another who may have received the card as a gift, the gift card is treated like cash given for the purchase of the item. If the item purchased is taxable, sales tax is due on the full sales price including any amount paid with the use of the gift card."

Buying a gem card, is being treated as a “gift card”. That’s the only posable reason I can see. The “gift card” would be exempt from tax in store, then when redeemed it’s worth 800 gems(sorry never bought cards so Im not sure about the exact gem amount). So A-net gives the claimer 800gems, there is no further cash transaction so no tax. When buying them online from A-net directly you are not buying a “gift card” so you are being charged tax. Yes it’s kind of a loophole as a gem cards value is not the same as a gift card, but as I said that’s the only way I can see this happening.

Thanks nice find and explanation

I think I have found peace. LoL

Softspoken.2410:

Can’t help but feel like a reference to the Boston Tea Party is ill-advised here.

Gift Cards with a $ value (should) not be taxed in any state. For instance, a $25 Gift Card to Best Buy should not have sales tax on it, as the tax will be collected when the card is redeemed.

Technically, a Gem Card isn’t a Stored Value card, so it should have tax attached to it. Maybe they still treat it like a gift card, though. Who knows.

Online Sales shouldn’t be taxed unless the company has a physical presence in the state — which NCSoft does, as they have an office in Austin, Texas. So most likely that’s why they charge tax for folks in Texas (or California, or Washington)..

As far as Steam goes, it’s the same way – they charge tax if you live in Washington (because they’re based in WA) but you shouldn’t pay tax anywhere else in the US. If you’re overseas they have to pay VAT, but they eat it.

Derez.6510:

Seera.5916:

Possibly due to the state possibly not requiring gift cards to be taxed.

Since a direct purchase of gems is not the purchase of a gift card and I believe ANet’s NA server is physically located in Texas, it does mean that ANet has a physical presence in Texas and therefore must charge players in Texas for sales tax when they buy gems directly. Even if gift cards are exempt in the state.

That would explain it.

I wonder why it just started charging the tax mid 2014 with direct gem purchases.

The page that had the information was updated in Sept 2012 so you should have paid taxes on any gems you bought from the BLTC directly. If you didn’t do it regularly, maybe you just didn’t notice. I don’t know. Only someone with ANet would know any specifics on it.

The tax in-game started after the game started using a new on-line purchase provider, and updated it tax collection. There is a New Announcement here in the forum from back then.

As for ArenaNet not providing Gem Cards to your local stores; that’s not ArenaNet, but your local retailers deciding not to re-order then, or the home office deciding not to send them to the local stores. You can contact your local store’s manager, and ask for them to be made available. If enough people do so, they will be re-stocked.

Good luck.

Edit: Odd, they seem to have removed that post from News and Announcements.

I guess they condensed it and moved it here: https://help.guildwars2.com/entries/30901687-Taxes

Derez.6510:

Miku.6297:

I’m confused what do you mean a “gem tax”?

There’s not a tax for cash transactions with A-net from my experience… 50$ purchase from the black lion = 50$ gem cash card.

If its a state tax, thats not A-net :P

Do you mean when you buy gems with gold? If so, I really don’t think in game gold tax vs RL money tax is a good comparison.

Buying gems with US dollars.

I have never paid tax on a gem card purchase.

But Anet stopped selling gem cards in Houston Texas at Targets and Gamestops, once they stopped selling cards at these retailers I had to start buying them through bltc with a credit card and now a $20 gem puchase cost $21.80

Other game or gift card purchases … in store or online does not charge me tax.
Only Gw2

Check Best Buy in Houston. According to their web site, they have them in stock.

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/ncsoft-guild-wars-2-gem-card-25-multicolor/6575597.p?id=1218759752997&skuId=6575597

Amazon also has them in stock.

Southern.8973:

Derez.6510:

Miku.6297:

I’m confused what do you mean a “gem tax”?

There’s not a tax for cash transactions with A-net from my experience… 50$ purchase from the black lion = 50$ gem cash card.

If its a state tax, thats not A-net :P

Do you mean when you buy gems with gold? If so, I really don’t think in game gold tax vs RL money tax is a good comparison.

Buying gems with US dollars.

I have never paid tax on a gem card purchase.

But Anet stopped selling gem cards in Houston Texas at Targets and Gamestops, once they stopped selling cards at these retailers I had to start buying them through bltc with a credit card and now a $20 gem puchase cost $21.80

Other game or gift card purchases … in store or online does not charge me tax.
Only Gw2

Check Best Buy in Houston. According to their web site, they have them in stock.

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?id=pcat17006&type=page&skuId=6575597&searchpage=true

Amazon also has them in stock.

Funny I just saw that at best buy also.

:) Full peace has been achieved.

ANet didn’t stop selling gem cards to either Target or Gamestop. That’s an individual decision by the various stores. I’ve seen people report about a dozen times that those two vendors stopped offering the cards…and each time, it turned out they were for sale a few weeks later. (I think what happens is that the clerks don’t really know; they just look to see if it’s in the computer on order and if they can’t find it, they say the stores don’t carry it any more.)

What usually happens is there are long periods where the store doesn’t sell any (or not many) and then suddenly there’s a rush. There’s no back order for something that doesn’t sell out often, so they end up with zero on hand and zero in the pipeline. Takes a few weeks for that to change.

I have vastly slowed down on making big payments to ANet due to the Aussie dollar being unbearably horrible against the US atm. I haven’t found a place yet that sells the gift cards but if I do then I’m definitely gonna start using those instead.. Sheesh.

ANet doesn’t decide which stores sell their Gem Cards. For instance the Targets, Best Buys and Walmarts up here in New England, at least the 6 stores I routinely visit, still carry Gem Cards. All the $25 card and some the $15 card.

As for taxes I don’t know about your state but in mine gift cards from physical stores, which Gem Cards are considered to be, aren’t taxed while purchases over the Internet are. And purchases directly from ANet are taxed according to the laws in your state. Tax money that ANet is responsible to pay to the state. Well it’s the company that ANet hired to process payments and they handle who gets taxed by how much etc.

Derez.6510:

Cazamar.7148:

If you are upset over $1.80 then you have bigger issues than taxes.

Times that by 50 plus all the future purches, Mr. Money bags.

Are you serious now?

Derez.6510:

As much money I have paid in gem taxes I would have tens of thousand of gems in my account.

Mr. Money bags, just how many gems did you buy that the $1.80 tax would afford you tens of thousands of gems?

Taxes aren’t fun and that’s a political debate, but I think you might be exaggerating just a little bit there.

Does America still have the totally backwards system where goods are listed minus taxes on the shelves?

I think they are the only country that does that, if so. Absolutely ridiculous.

GuzziHero.2467:

Does America still have the totally backwards system where goods are listed minus taxes on the shelves?

I think they are the only country that does that, if so. Absolutely ridiculous.

Yep. You take the items to register to pay and then find out which ones have tax and which don’t, and what the total is.

I assume other countries have it mandated by law? I can’t see it starting up otherwise since there would be people who would refuse to buy at the first store that tried it because that store is now “more expensive” and businesses don’t like to lose money. In addition, any store that does it and its competitor’s don’t, loses money as it’s a cost to redo prices when taxes change.

In my state Gem Cards are taxed both in store as well as internet purchases.

GuzziHero.2467:

Does America still have the totally backwards system where goods are listed minus taxes on the shelves?

I think they are the only country that does that, if so. Absolutely ridiculous.

The US has a tiered government system, so you’ve got multiple layers of potential taxation (city, township, county, state, federal). It’s primarily due to that that prices are listed before tax. And yes, it is ridiculous since it’s really just stores being too lazy to update their stickers.

I’m in Arizona, and pay $25 for a $25 gems card from either Target or Best Buy. I bought gems once through Anet and also paid a tax, so we must be similar to Texas.

It actually makes sense to pay the taxes when you spend the gift card instead of when you buy it. I’m thankful I get the full amount of gems when I use the card ankitten ot paying a tax/getting reduced gems when redeemed.

mtpelion.4562:

GuzziHero.2467:

Does America still have the totally backwards system where goods are listed minus taxes on the shelves?

I think they are the only country that does that, if so. Absolutely ridiculous.

The US has a tiered government system, so you’ve got multiple layers of potential taxation (city, township, county, state, federal). It’s primarily due to that that prices are listed before tax. And yes, it is ridiculous since it’s really just stores being too lazy to update their stickers.

It’s not laziness. On the contrary, small and big business owners have long lobbied for laws that allow them to do this. They fear that sales will go down if they include taxes in the prices.

And for a variety of reasons, some consumers prefer it this way. (I’m at a loss to explain it, but I’ve seen ballot measures to change the price displays lose time and again.)

“They fear that sales will go down if they include taxes in the prices.”

So, it’s basically the same reason things are priced at x.99, or x.95, instead of x+1. A ruse to make you think something is cheaper than it is. (Never mind that it fails to fool most people – they’re just keeping their hopes up for the few who fall for such tricks.)

Anyway. I’ll point out that I live in Indiana, where I am reasonably certain there are no servers or offices for Arenanet or NCSoft at all… and I’m charged the usual 7% on gems. Cards or ingame purchases.

Now, I get the point of taxes. And I understand the growing trend of taxing online transactions, simply because of the extent to which they have supplanted certain types of physical transactions. I don’t bat an eye at having to pay tax when I order something physical online, whether my state is involved in its distribution or not.

I just kind of get annoyed at this ability to tax a completely digital currency in a completely digital setting that takes place in the ether itself. (I still live with it, I just think it’s pushing the limits on what qualifies as a taxable good.)

Oh look, another elephant….

Indirect taxes should just be abolished, anyway, as they tax the poor far more, proportionate to their “wealth”, than they do the rich.

Pretty sure, in the UK, if you are registered for VAT, you have to include the VAT amount in the price displayed, so there are no nasty surprises (just really nasty taxes).

An individual company has no control over state or local sales taxes so expecting them to be responsible for informing the citizens who chose those taxes seems silly to me. “I voted for an 11% sales tax rate but am unwilling to figure out what that means so someone else who had no say in it should be expected to do my math for me.”

Expecting a business to foot the cost of changing price tags every time the local government or citizens decide to change tax rates is outright ludicrous (IMO).

Ashen.2907:

An individual company has no control over state or local sales taxes so expecting them to be responsible for informing the citizens who chose those taxes seems silly to me. “I voted for an 11% sales tax rate but am unwilling to figure out what that means so someone else who had no say in it should be expected to do my math for me.”

Expecting a business to foot the cost of changing price tags every time the local government or citizens decide to change tax rates is outright ludicrous (IMO).

You didn’t say what the alternative should be? Who pays for it then? Does the government raise taxes to pay for businesses cost of changing price tags?

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Ashen.2907:

An individual company has no control over state or local sales taxes so expecting them to be responsible for informing the citizens who chose those taxes seems silly to me. “I voted for an 11% sales tax rate but am unwilling to figure out what that means so someone else who had no say in it should be expected to do my math for me.”

Expecting a business to foot the cost of changing price tags every time the local government or citizens decide to change tax rates is outright ludicrous (IMO).

You didn’t say what the alternative should be? Who pays for it then? Does the government raise taxes to pay for businesses cost of changing price tags?

As always with businesses, sooner or later, the consumer pays.

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Ashen.2907:

An individual company has no control over state or local sales taxes so expecting them to be responsible for informing the citizens who chose those taxes seems silly to me. “I voted for an 11% sales tax rate but am unwilling to figure out what that means so someone else who had no say in it should be expected to do my math for me.”

Expecting a business to foot the cost of changing price tags every time the local government or citizens decide to change tax rates is outright ludicrous (IMO).

You didn’t say what the alternative should be? Who pays for it then? Does the government raise taxes to pay for businesses cost of changing price tags?

Currently the company pays for its own tags (but certainly incorporates costs into its pricing model) because it decides when it is going to change them. If voters decide to require use government authority to force a private company to do their thinking for them then the voters should foot the bill.

Southern.8973:

Softspoken.2410:

Can’t help but feel like a reference to the Boston Tea Party is ill-advised here.

Gift Cards with a $ value (should) not be taxed in any state. For instance, a $25 Gift Card to Best Buy should not have sales tax on it, as the tax will be collected when the card is redeemed.

Technically, a Gem Card isn’t a Stored Value card, so it should have tax attached to it. Maybe they still treat it like a gift card, though. Who knows.

Online Sales shouldn’t be taxed unless the company has a physical presence in the state — which NCSoft does, as they have an office in Austin, Texas. So most likely that’s why they charge tax for folks in Texas (or California, or Washington)..

As far as Steam goes, it’s the same way – they charge tax if you live in Washington (because they’re based in WA) but you shouldn’t pay tax anywhere else in the US. If you’re overseas they have to pay VAT, but they eat it.

Interesting. I’ll admit I hadn’t given the matter much thought before, and I really should have.

So does this imply that if you’re seeing a tax on direct in-client purchases, you should be seeing some form of tax (reduced gems received?) on card redemptions? Or is it just implied that ArenaNet is eating that cost?

Here’s a little thing most people don’t know or they do know they freely ignore and that’s the use tax in states. Essentially it says if you buy something out of state, you still have to pay your own state’s sales tax (well the difference in taxes between where you bought it and your state’s). And that’s what many state’s use to pressure payment processors, even Internet companies with no physical presence in state, to pay taxes on the goods they sell. The argument is it actually benefits the resident because they no longer have to track and declare that item for use tax.

“Look, we’re helping” – words you hate to hear out of an elected official.

Ashen.2907:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Ashen.2907:

An individual company has no control over state or local sales taxes so expecting them to be responsible for informing the citizens who chose those taxes seems silly to me. “I voted for an 11% sales tax rate but am unwilling to figure out what that means so someone else who had no say in it should be expected to do my math for me.”

Expecting a business to foot the cost of changing price tags every time the local government or citizens decide to change tax rates is outright ludicrous (IMO).

You didn’t say what the alternative should be? Who pays for it then? Does the government raise taxes to pay for businesses cost of changing price tags?

Currently the company pays for its own tags (but certainly incorporates costs into its pricing model) because it decides when it is going to change them. If voters decide to require use government authority to force a private company to do their thinking for them then the voters should foot the bill.

Then they will need a way to make sure that businesses aren’t padding the bill to the government and claiming that it costs more than it does, which would drive taxes up higher to either pay for the padded claims or pay for putting in a regulatory institution which investigates enough claims to keep the businesses reasonably honest.