Guild Wars 2

I’d first like to apologize if there is already a similar post in the forums, but a key word search and hundreds of results is a lot to go through, so here is something I’d like to bring up:

Gems. When I started playing GW2 at launch, I wasn’t sure if it was something I’d stick with as this was my first MMO, so I didn’t take much interest in gems. I can’t remember the first time I bought 800 of them. And I’m not sure what the first thing was that I purchased, but I’m certain it wasn’t gold. I mean, this game is also known as Fashion Wars 2. But then I had a few extra gems and bought gold. I really didn’t think to much of it, just that it wouldn’t hurt to have some extra and I really didn’t know how to make it as I was still new to the genre.

I then for a while would buy gems on the principle that I liked what Arena Net had done with the game and I wanted to support them and thank them for their work. I could justify $10 every month when I was playing actively. But then I noticed I started spending more of my gems on gold. And it was mostly because I had characters that needed rune sets once they hit 80. Maybe I wasn’t earning gold the best ways, but I was trying to set myself at a good place so I could help others in the guild.

But here we are now with HoT released, me a wiser player (on how to make gold), and returning to the game after a few months. Coming back and hearing what happened to dungeons being nerfed, had me a little concerned. I had never been a fan of fractals (and am still on the fence). I was unsure of what content would allow me to sustain my in-game costs. It’s only been two weeks but I was thinking about this today and here are some of my thoughts:

• Would removing the option to purchase gold with gems fix (what I hear from various sources) the inflated economy? We’ve seen F2P/B2P is working well for MMOs in general. And having items of convenience and fashion seems logical. But now looking back at the other MMOs I’ve played, it’s obvious that there is a “pay to win” aspect to GW2. And now looking back, I feel a bit dirty.

• Would removing gold purchasing help other aspects of the game? I mentioned that I’m a bit saddened that dungeons are being pushed aside (I realize that they had already been, but this is the nail in the coffin). Gold aside, I enjoyed running the various paths. And I liked that for a majority of them, they are pugable. It was something I could do if I only had a limited amount of time that night. But, what about other things we can do in the game that aren’t getting enough attention?

My main reason in posting this is because I feel like there’s a lot happening to the game right now and it seems to me that this is a topic that really isn’t getting an answer on: How does the average player base feel about the time vs. gold paradigm right now and what can be done to better the experience?

I’ll admit I’m not an expert on anything in the game, just one that enjoys the game and doesn’t want to see it go in a downhill direction. I hope a developer can comment and give some insight in why things are the way they are (and what they hope to see in the future).

Do you have any idea how profitable the Gem Store is? Let alone the currency exchange? ANet’s filthy rich. You’re essentially asking them to remove one of the ways they make a kitten ton of money.

Not that I don’t sympathize with you, of course. I’m all for fixing the economy. Good luck.

This is why I’m asking, how much of an impact would there be? There’s got to be some kind of happy medium somewhere, right? Or maybe the medium is already there and I just wasn’t aware.

zephyrus.3476:

This is why I’m asking, how much of an impact would there be? There’s got to be some kind of happy medium somewhere, right? Or maybe the medium is already there and I just wasn’t aware.

The original post assumes that selling gems to get gold on the exchange is a problem and it also assumes that the economy is broken; neither is a good assumption based on the evidence we have to date.

• There are always players that purchase gold. In other games (including GW1), they are purchased on the black market from those who “illegally” obtain that gold, e.g. bots, account thieves, etc. GW2 reduces this pressure by making it easy on player who want to spend less time on the game by allowing them to purchase legit gold via gems.
• Although many people have stated their believe that gem→gold exchange inflates prices on key items, but there’s no evidence that this is true. Nearly all prices can be simply explained by the usual supply|demand mechanics of any substantially free market. The exceptions can usually be explained by known market forces, independent of the exchange.
• Similarly, the claim that the market is broken is typically offered without evidence. What people typically mean is that the stuff they want to get is priced higher than they think reasonable, a matter of opinion that can easily be both true and false, depending on who is making the statement.
• In a truly broken market, it would be difficult to obtain most items or sell unwanted ones, to get the coin used to pay for the wanted ones. Of the over 20,000 items available on the TP today, this is only true for a handful (mostly due to individual ANet mistakes, which they claim to be rectifying soon).

tl;dr the market isn’t broken for the vast majority, the gem<→gold exchange is good for the community on the whole, and so removing it from the game would hurt more folks than it would help.

I’m not sure if you know, but buying gold with gems doesn’t cause inflation. You’re buying gold from other players. It’s not gold made of thin air.

If I buy gems with gold and you buy gold with gems, we are selling to each other. I’m buying your gems and you’re buying my gold. It’s Indirect, because the gold and gems go into two pools that we dip into, but that’s essentially how it works.

Thanks for bringing these points to my knowledge, I wasn’t aware of most of these items. Thanks for educating me.

zephyrus.3476:

• Would removing the option to purchase gold with gems fix (what I hear from various sources) the inflated economy?

The option to purchase gold with gems has a negligible effect on aggregate price levels and inflation. You would not even notice an effect in the markets if it were removed.

zephyrus.3476:

• Would removing gold purchasing help other aspects of the game?

It would hurt other aspects of the game by reducing A.Net’s ability to capture value and fund the creation of new content. It, again, has a negligible impact on the in-game economy.

Every reward nerf and gold grind they’ve introduced in this expansion was put in place to guide players to buy MORE gold with gems. The chance of them disabling it at this point is probably less then zero.

Although I do agree it’s a problem and is the reason we have such unreasonable grinds for almost anything in the game.

Alone.1784:

Every reward nerf and gold grind they’ve introduced in this expansion was put in place to guide players to buy MORE gold with gems. The chance of them disabling it at this point is probably less then zero.

Although I do agree it’s a problem and is the reason we have such unreasonable grinds for almost anything in the game.

Its funny how people keep claiming this, yet they fail to give any evidence that this is the case. The gem→gold ratio has been incredibly stable since hot launch, hovering around 20g for 100 gems, with 10% variation, depending on the time of day.
If so much more players are forced to buy gold now and gold in general is so hard to come by, I wonder why the ratio isnt going down.

Wanze.8410:

Its funny how people keep claiming this, yet they fail to give any evidence that this is the case. The gem->gold ratio has been incredibly stable since hot launch, hovering around 20g for 100 gems, with 10% variation, depending on the time of day.
If so much more players are forced to buy gold now and gold in general is so hard to come by, I wonder why the ratio isnt going down.

Not sure what proof you’re looking for. The reward nerfs have been highly detailed by both ANET and community members.

For the gems to gold ratio no one but them really know what that algorithm looks like but I would think anyone with some critical thinking skills could figure out how them being the only authorized gold seller then creating massive gold sinks would serve to benefit them.

It’s not unlike Comcast charging for going over a set amount of data in a month but then allowing thier on demand video not to count against that cap. They are encouraging you to use their service.

For some players they are going to refuse to buy gold so they just know certain items they will never own so they don’t even try. I’m in that camp, saw nightfury looked cool so was prepared to “work hard” over Halloween for it until it was discovered to just be a 3200g sink and wrote off ever having it.

At the moment gold is mainly flowing into the economy by huge guilds that are actually leveling scribing and building out their guild halls. When that ends and mat prices dry up I think it will be even worse for normal players as rewards will be even further out of reach.

Honestly I feel like we’ve already lost a ton of players from the first few weeks of the expansion and I think that will only get worse until they do something about their grindy reward structure.

Alone.1784:

Wanze.8410:

Its funny how people keep claiming this, yet they fail to give any evidence that this is the case. The gem->gold ratio has been incredibly stable since hot launch, hovering around 20g for 100 gems, with 10% variation, depending on the time of day.
If so much more players are forced to buy gold now and gold in general is so hard to come by, I wonder why the ratio isnt going down.

Not sure what proof you’re looking for. The reward nerfs have been highly detailed by both ANET and community members.

For the gems to gold ratio no one but them really know what that algorithm looks like but I would think anyone with some critical thinking skills could figure out how them being the only authorized gold seller then creating massive gold sinks would serve to benefit them.

It’s not unlike Comcast charging for going over a set amount of data in a month but then allowing thier on demand video not to count against that cap. They are encouraging you to use their service.

For some players they are going to refuse to buy gold so they just know certain items they will never own so they don’t even try. I’m in that camp, saw nightfury looked cool so was prepared to “work hard” over Halloween for it until it was discovered to just be a 3200g sink and wrote off ever having it.

At the moment gold is mainly flowing into the economy by huge guilds that are actually leveling scribing and building out their guild halls. When that ends and mat prices dry up I think it will be even worse for normal players as rewards will be even further out of reach.

Honestly I feel like we’ve already lost a ton of players from the first few weeks of the expansion and I think that will only get worse until they do something about their grindy reward structure.

I am jut looking for proof that players are buying gold with gems because it cant be earned in game anymore.
As i said, the gold/gem ratio is quite stable since hot release, which indicates that there arent more players buying gold with gems than before hot.

I never bough gems with my money, tho i have exchanged my gold for gems numerous times before. I also considered buying gems and turning them into gold…and the amount of money i had to spend in order to get the gold i wanted (at that time) was scary… Cause i knew i could make the gold within a week of “my type of casual playing”.

That being said this is how i make gold:

1)Dungeons, i still do dungeon now and then, perhaps not full dungeon runs like ages ago but 1-3 dungeons every now and then is fun for me. Also i found my self wanting to do as much dungeons possible every day to get empyrial shards

2) Leveling alts. Yes.. after 3 years i sill lvl alts, a new combination of race and profession that i never got to lvl80 and enjoy the theme that i came up with. This is fun for me, and i manage to get a few gold per day by simply leveling a alt

3) Zone boss events. I dont really “farm” them anymore but they still throw in a gold or two on a daily bases

4) Guild missions. Tho only once per week, they do give lots of money in my pocket

5) “Flipping” items on TP. Buy low ,sell high. I spend about a total of 10-15 minutes trough the day on tp, setting up buy orders and placing items on sale. And i do this with only a handfull items that i know will sell. This allows me to spend minimal time staring on tp, and most time playing the actual game, leveling a alt or whatever i feel like. Ocassionaly i visit a city to get supplies, kits, tools, store stuff in my bank, and put the newly bought items on sale.

6) Other situattional methods: This i will keep a secret, but you have to have a eye for details and think “outside the box” in order to find something that can be turned into profit extremely fast and effortlessly. Tho most of this things that i personally do is situattional and cant be done all day long, when i am able to do it i normally earn from 4-60g in a hour without actually doing anything. I normally check every now and then for these situations and if i feel like it i do them.

7) Farming , Train runs and others. This i never actually do. Tho it is profitable i just always find something else to do thats more fun for me.

Saying all this, i never ever had any problems with money. On the other hand i am a pretty patient person…so if im missing materials for my ascended armor i wont buy them off from the tp , instead i will buy order some that i need at a cheaper price so i can craft the gated materials later. Theres plenty of ways to save money.