Guild Wars 2

Over the past few weeks I’ve seen multiple topics regarding farming taking too long, or gem prices being too high, or that Anet is ignoring it’s “loyal” playerbase.

“Our” (" because I hate speaking in general terms) definition of loyalty is a player that sticks with the game, despite it’s flaws. This person might be spending hours and hours again, everyday, playing the game – just to get enough materials to make a Legendary, or just because the person finds the game a worthy investment of time.

Truth is though, in Anet’s eyes, this isn’t a loyal customer. They need money, and of course that is their main focus so stop complaining about it already! It’s a company. People work there. People who need money. If you consider yourself a loyal customer, do you EVER spend gems in the gemshop? Or are you constantly complaining about the prices? A loyal player wouldn’t farm gold to get gems, but rather pull out the good old credit card and push some cash into the game. Think about it.

Here is what we all MUST make a stand on:
1 Gemstore
2 Subscription

You can’t have neither. Money must go to the bank. I would rather have prices in the shop dropped significantly in exchange for a monthly subscription. Either way, I would love to pay a monthly subscription to know that I am, in some mannar, contributing to Guild Wars 2’s continued existance.

I agree with you Advent. It is very nice to be able to take a few days, weeks or months off without feeling guilt. However, the reality is that cash must flow. And in order for it to happen, people have to realize that there is plenty of honor in paying rather than farming. Sure, farming proves dedication – but paying shows loyalty.

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

There’s a bit more to it. In multiplayer games, the players themselves are part of the content of the game. It is important to have a strong, vibrant community in game, both to play with and to play against. The player that sticks around for the game and isn’t mean spirited is adding to the quality of game, making it more appealing to the public at large and making buying the game a more attractive investment. Players who don’t buy a thing from the gem shop are contributing to the profits of the game indirectly in this manner, both with new sales and with making the game enjoyable enough for players to want to spend gems in it.

You don’t pay for gems, do you?

Sure, everyone contributes in some manner. But, you lurking about isn’t going to pay for Anet’s employees unless you actively recruit friends to join.

I have played this game since BW3, and frankly I find large parts of the community antisocial and alienating – especially the elite community – who just happens to be the one’s complaining about having to pay for things.

Advent.6193:

Not to mention, the current B2P/microtransaction model makes it a lot easier to -say- leave for a bit, and then come back in.

Bullkitten. I’ve never had an issue with taking a break from a sub based game. Never. They don’t delete your account when you cancel your sub. Its as easy taking a break from a sub as it is from GW2. Stop spreading myths about this.

On topic: ANet isn’t a charity. Their game is $60 per box and they’ve sold millions. And then they throw everything in RNG boxes for real money. You’re right ANet is a business, but that doesn’t excuse scumbag sales practices and blatant disregard for their players. And if you’re suggesting that people are only “loyal” if they continually spend money on ANet’s crap then you are part of the problem as well.

People who complain about the prices aren’t loyal? Boy it must be nice in your world where everyone is as well off as you are. That infinite Mining Pick… $10, soulbound on use. So if I want it for my 4 characters, that’s $40. Yeah the mining pick is convenient, but it sure as hell isn’t worth $40, so they’ll get no money from me. Waste your dollars all you want but to sit there and say people who don’t constantly buy gems don’t count as loyal players is incredibly elitist and a scumbag attitude.

iFocus.3781:

I agree with you Advent. It is very nice to be able to take a few days, weeks or months off without feeling guilt. However, the reality is that cash must flow. And in order for it to happen, people have to realize that there is plenty of honor in paying rather than farming. Sure, farming proves dedication – but paying shows loyalty.

I’m not arguing the financial reality, iFocus. However, with subscriptions, folk feel “forced” to cough up the ducats. By comparison, an “optional” system works a lot like tipping at a restaurant. Sure, you’re gonna get stiffed on occasion, but -assuming an enjoyable experience- a lot of folk’ll toss in some extra, just because they’re having a good time.

The problem is that the current gemstore is very lacking. There is absolutely 0 incentive to spend real money on gems.

• Gemstore filled with RNG (Chests, dyes, mini’s), we don’t even know the odds of receiving whatever is inside.
• Most items are incredibly overpriced, for example a one-time use armor skin costs 10€. In comparison, GW1’s costumes cost 5,99€, have infinite uses and can be used on multiple characters.
• Few items. In a year only 2 armor skins have been added, and all weapons skins were temporary (or require RNG).
• Only 3 payment methods. Probably fine for NA, not for EU.

I think ArenaNet needs a bit more focus on IMPROVING the gemstore instead of adding more and more RNG.

This game is brought out by Anet, they are part of NcSoft. NcSoft is coming out with a new game which is called Wildstart. It will have a sub, but they will allow you to earn your sub ingame as you can use the first month free with the box purchase to build up enough in game cash to pay for your sub. Of course you’d have to keep that up every month.

My point is, Anet went B2P with microtransactions. If it had been a totally convincing success, I am sure they would use it again. But instead we see new MMOs coming out with subs. Wildstar is just one of them.

My guess is that Anet did ok for themselves but NcSoft’s financial reports show that GW2 is not making much more money than Aion this year. Certainly not much more as you would expect from a new game. So I’m sure it’s good enough for GW2 but apparently not for new games coming out to adopt this strategy.

And as much as players who don’t buy gems are part of the overall experience, the OP is right that they don’t bring in cash but do bring in cost. This game will only survive long term if enough people spend cakitten the gemstore. And that’s a simply reality.

Honestly I like subs better because it’s a filter for gold sellers but also because you can expect more quality of a game. GW2 looks pretty but the limitations of the game are also clearly showing by now. And if a company has 2 games and one makes 20 million per quarter and the other 24 million but has double the players and accompanying costs, then the first game is a better deal for the company. It’s just an example, but sales and profit margins are cold necessities for companies and they only come with income.

arjeidi.2690:

Advent.6193:

Not to mention, the current B2P/microtransaction model makes it a lot easier to -say- leave for a bit, and then come back in.

Bullkitten. I’ve never had an issue with taking a break from a sub based game. Never. They don’t delete your account when you cancel your sub. Its as easy taking a break from a sub as it is from GW2. Stop spreading myths about this.

You could simply say that my statement was wrong. Getting “cute” about the subject just makes you look like you’re personally offended.

No, paying does not show loyalty, in fact I know a good number of players who paid for many things on the gem store and have already quit the game.

Money is not just earned to keep the team running and be able to pay them, but also important to keep investors/owners happy. This can best be seen in the case of Activision/Blizzard whose giant profits had to keep the mother company Vivendi afloat. Deciding which business model you take depends on what you promised your investors.

This is how you can earn money currently

(1) Sell a box, or digital copy
(2) Have people subscribe
(3) Feature paywall
(4) Microtransactions
(5) Targeted Ads

Any developer can use any combination at any time. The Xbox notoriously puts a paywall between the player and multiplayer, meaning Microsoft earns money from the average developer programming something for their users and never gets to see a dime. Ads formerly were a way to either pre-finance a game in part or whole and/or sell ads after release (e.g. Quakewars, Burnout Paradise), but currently Google is developing technology to sell Youtube-Style ads that can be implemented in games. (This Jormag battle was brought to you by…).

In my opinion, the gem shop gets the most hate, when a feature is put behind a paywall (transmuting, uncomplicated mining), or when Microtransactions are effectively lottery tickets. Those are two areas where ArenaNet could improve. Although I cannot say how that impacts their bottom line, one only needs to read the forums for a while to see how it negatively impacts the reputation.

Advent.6193:

arjeidi.2690:

Advent.6193:

Not to mention, the current B2P/microtransaction model makes it a lot easier to -say- leave for a bit, and then come back in.

Bullkitten. I’ve never had an issue with taking a break from a sub based game. Never. They don’t delete your account when you cancel your sub. Its as easy taking a break from a sub as it is from GW2. Stop spreading myths about this.

You could simply say that my statement was wrong. Getting “cute” about the subject just makes you look like you’re personally offended.

Not personally offended, just sick and tired of the misinformation to make GW seem better. Happened all the time in GW1, happens all the time in GW2. Just wish people would be more honest about it.

edit:

Back on topic, I personally almost never ever buy gems because there’s nothing worth buying in the shop. I refuse to do RNG, and I don’t like any of the armor skins. So aside from, say, a total makeover every few months, ANet fails to make me want to spend my money. When they do offer an item, its stupidly overpriced as demonstrated in my post up above.

That wildstar is going the hybrid sub route that can be purchased with in-game currency does not mean a thing about how well or poorly GW2 is doing with it’s strategy. It just means that they are trying a different system to see how it works. Wildstar will be a different target (mostly) audience than GW2, they want to see if a slightly (not hugely) different system will work as well. If it works great, if not it is easy to drop the sub system that is created with the game.

Gehenna.3625:

This game is brought out by Anet, they are part of NcSoft. NcSoft is coming out with a new game which is called Wildstart. It will have a sub, but they will allow you to earn your sub ingame as you can use the first month free with the box purchase to build up enough in game cash to pay for your sub. Of course you’d have to keep that up every month.

My point is, Anet went B2P with microtransactions. If it had been a totally convincing success, I am sure they would use it again. But instead we see new MMOs coming out with subs. Wildstar is just one of them.

My guess is that Anet did ok for themselves but NcSoft’s financial reports show that GW2 is not making much more money than Aion this year. Certainly not much more as you would expect from a new game. So I’m sure it’s good enough for GW2 but apparently not for new games coming out to adopt this strategy.

And as much as players who don’t buy gems are part of the overall experience, the OP is right that they don’t bring in cash but do bring in cost. This game will only survive long term if enough people spend cakitten the gemstore. And that’s a simply reality.

Honestly I like subs better because it’s a filter for gold sellers but also because you can expect more quality of a game. GW2 looks pretty but the limitations of the game are also clearly showing by now. And if a company has 2 games and one makes 20 million per quarter and the other 24 million but has double the players and accompanying costs, then the first game is a better deal for the company. It’s just an example, but sales and profit margins are cold necessities for companies and they only come with income.

Right, arjeldi. I never played GW1. Also never effed with a sub-MMO. Heard loads of stories from friends who did the latter, however. One complaint they typically had was that they felt rather obligated to play “keep-up,” due to expansions. Any “FUD” here is unintentional.

Now, I will agree on the RNG business. That is an area which could stand to see improvement. However, how far could it be improved without going into the territory of P2W/power creep?

Advent.6193:

Right, arjeldi. I never played GW1. Also never effed with a sub-MMO. Heard loads of stories from friends who did the latter, however. One complaint they typically had was that they felt rather obligated to play “keep-up,” due to expansions. Any “FUD” here is unintentional.

Now, I will agree on the RNG business. That is an area which could stand to see improvement. However, how far could it be improved without going into the territory of P2W/power creep?

Actually, one thing I had known from players who didn’t have much money to spend on games was that if they paid for a months worth of a game, they would want to play that months worth. Every month they would ask themselves if they would want to play that month and, for the rest of the month, they would live with that decision.

It’s not a false accusation. It’s an opinion. Not everyone may share that opinion, but that doesn’t make it a false or non-existent opinion.

I would also like to point out that while you may farm anything in this game, other than the odd drop that is worth a lot on the Trading Post, you are better off getting a part-time job (or even full-time) and putting in the $10 to get gems → gold. It’s a faster method of earning money once you do the math on it.

That’s not to say that if you want to get money, your only choice is to use a credit card, it’s that the most efficient (in terms of time and effort spent) is to use a credit card. I know plenty of people, myself included, who farm their gold ingame. I know plenty of people who buy gems with real money when they see something they want (typically in the gem store and not with gold converted).

Advent.6193:

Right, arjeldi. I never played GW1. Also never effed with a sub-MMO. Heard loads of stories from friends who did the latter, however. One complaint they typically had was that they felt rather obligated to play “keep-up,” due to expansions. Any “FUD” here is unintentional.

Now, I will agree on the RNG business. That is an area which could stand to see improvement. However, how far could it be improved without going into the territory of P2W/power creep?

There are a lot of people who complained about subs and feeling obligated to play in the sub games I played. The thing about it is that a lot of that was rather self inflicted. Nowadays it’s easier though because a lot of games have f2p options.

Still the feeling is there whether it makes sense or not. I always did find it funny how people can make themselves feel forced to play over 12 bucks but when they go out one evening spend 50 bucks or more on booze without flinching. It’s just odd how people work.

Advent.6193:

No thank you. If I were a fan of subscription-based gaming, there are plenty of other options still out there.

Name 3 fantasy based MMO’s with subs.

HiddenNick.7206:

Advent.6193:

No thank you. If I were a fan of subscription-based gaming, there are plenty of other options still out there.

Name 3 fantasy based MMO’s with subs.

WoW
LotRo
DDO
Aion
Rift
Tera

Most of them can be played f2p as well but still have sub options that give you more in game.

You beat me to the first (and most obvious) 3, Gehenna. I also think -IIRC- that we can add the following:
Final Fantasy 11 and 14
Asheron’s Call, IIRC, still has active servers and is sub-based.

Anet has already stated their quite comfortable money-wise, they’re not desperate for cash and I doubt they will be anytime soon. They’re using this RNG thing strongly to their advantage.

Well folks my own opinion from an end user is this:

I purchased this game and enjoyed playing, in addition I was tempted to spend a few shekels on a one time upgrade of my bank, bags, and a little bit of in game gold as I came here to enjoy myself not grub around for cash.

To be honest I was quite happy to do so, and a big if not major factor was the promise the game would be free to play and my character/s are available to play all the time the servers are up. In addition I read various comments from more informed players who were of the opinion GW2 had not crossed over a line between having some useful items in the cash shop, rather than pay to win.

A subscription model though requires a different type of commitment, which includes constant level and content upgrades, and constant grinding. De-sub from such a game
(and I will use the historical comparison of WoW) would require a lot more regrinding before you hit max level again, which to be frank was where the most content was.

Please don’t get me wrong folks, I am not against subscription models per se. But in fairness to all that is a financial and game model that can only really work on a games original start up. In short you can go from subscription, to free to play models of various kinds but not the other way around, (if you value your reputation that is)

GW2 going toward subscription would make a lot of current (and former) players rather unhappy in my own view

PS am not currently playing GW2 but will hopefully return at some point on the current financial model of free to play, and may even CHOOSE to spend more real life cash. But on a subscription model that chance is almost zero

Oh I agree subs are no option for GW2.

I disagree that subs require you to grind. That’s still optional and really depends on the game. People get different things from different games, sub or not.

Would rather pay a sub. That way I know quality is assured and not simply pushed with token content to buy from the gem store to gain full access to every thing the game has to offer.

Reason why I never purchase gems from the gem store is because I’ll know I’ll never get full access to the game no matter how much I spend. Thus I don’t support it.

Offering a purchasable expansion is the only time I’ll “whip out the good ole credit card” instead of buying virtual items.

I will never play a subscription game, I admit I’m a kitteneap like that (over half my wages goes on a mortgage these days so I try to be thrifty)
I get plenty of entertainment for the amount I’ve paid for this game. I never feel obligated to buy anything from the gemstore, nothing from there ‘completes’ the game in any way. If i see something on it that I really want I save up gold and buy gems. I enjoy everything I choose to do, and if something doesn’t look good I just don’t do it. I think a lot of people expect something for nothing these days, maybe because they’ve been brought up in a very spoiled generation.

Like many have said, the problem with subscription based games is that once you pay, you’re basically chained to that game for a month. Many people were attracted to gw2 because it comes without that chain. They may actually lose more business by switching to a subscription model than sticking with what they got.

I think they should instead focus on the gem store. Something I’ve learned from free MMO’s: Skins sell. Make more of them. And not just town clothes, because those are really only useful for rpers and in-game social events. I think most of the armor skins are temporary? Make them permanent, or even a third section for armor skins that can be turned on and off.

Other cosmetics sell too. Hair, accessories, etc… May not suit everyone, but it will definitely bring in revenue.

Also: Mini-pets are useless. Pets are very popular in mmo’s, but normally they do something. Picking up loot is the norm, and if mini-pets did that, I’d have more reason to use the free one’s I’ve gotten AND get more. That new cat is really cute. But I’d know I would never use it.

I don’t think GW2 is at risk of getting subscriptions. It’s such a huge changeover from the current plan, that I do think it would harm this game more than help it.

And yes, I do agree with Kono that the gemstore selections could be much better. Cosmetics sell and the current range doesn’t seem good enough to me. I certainly have never felt the desire to buy anything there. I play SWTOR and I do pay a sub and buy stuff from their cartel market. It’s worth it to me because I enjoy that game.

If I enjoyed GW2 more and liked the stuff in the gemstore I would spend money on it. So far I haven’t spent a single penny beyond the box price.

The current game isn’t worth a subscription and the gemstore is kitten.

They could easily remedy both of these, but they won’t, because people keep buying keys and other trash. Thank you stupid people for keeping NCsoft thinking this is a viable source of income and worth all the recurring costs.

I bought gems simply cos I wanted to support Anet. I didn’t need anything. Think I bought like a bank upgrade but that was it. Nothing else really appeals to me. But paying Anet is all I care about.

Shame the law stops them having a ‘donations’ link. Man I would spam the kitten out of that.

People keep claiming that spending nothing beyond the box price is bad – but you know what? It’s what Anet expected. They kept flogging the point that everything in the gem store is optional. All of it. IMO the only worthwhile items are extra char slots and the bag expansions.

Using the gem store for anything is more in the nature of a tip (note: this makes more sense outside of the USA, where tipping is apparently obligatory). You got good service, above and beyond what was expected? Buy some gems! Convert them to gold, get a useful extra, buy a skin, whatever.

You don’t want to spend more money on a game you already own? Not a big deal, that’s what they expected.

Remember folks, it’s about expectation vs. hope. They only hope people will drop a mint in the gem shop (hence the RNG boxes, to capitalise upon the whole gambling mindset – and the true reason people gamble is for the thrill of the risk – not for the reward), they don’t “expect” it of you.

There’s a reason why games these days don’t do standard subscription models anymore. It just doesn’t work.

When every other game in competition with you does a B2P/microtrans model, you simply can’t sell the game on a subs model.

iFocus.3781:

Over the past few weeks I’ve seen multiple topics regarding farming taking too long, or gem prices being too high, or that Anet is ignoring it’s “loyal” playerbase.

“Our” (" because I hate speaking in general terms) definition of loyalty is a player that sticks with the game, despite it’s flaws. This person might be spending hours and hours again, everyday, playing the game – just to get enough materials to make a Legendary, or just because the person finds the game a worthy investment of time.

Truth is though, in Anet’s eyes, this isn’t a loyal customer. They need money, and of course that is their main focus so stop complaining about it already! It’s a company. People work there. People who need money. If you consider yourself a loyal customer, do you EVER spend gems in the gemshop? Or are you constantly complaining about the prices? A loyal player wouldn’t farm gold to get gems, but rather pull out the good old credit card and push some cash into the game. Think about it.

Here is what we all MUST make a stand on:
1 Gemstore
2 Subscription

You can’t have neither. Money must go to the bank. I would rather have prices in the shop dropped significantly in exchange for a monthly subscription. Either way, I would love to pay a monthly subscription to know that I am, in some manner, contributing to Guild Wars 2’s continued existance.

I agree with you on some points, but how much is too much before its considered fleecing? If the gem store had true “micro transactions”, that would be awesome, but everything is $5 – $10. If the mining pick were $3, it would be much more feasible to buy a set of tools for each character, but as it sits, it would cost you $30 PER character.

For the amount of money I’ve spent in this game, I’d personally rather just have a sub, but that me. I don’t have a problem with the gem store and Anet needing to make money. But at what point does “fair value” start moving into the “taking advantage of its consumers” territory?

If I wanted to play a subscription game I’d be playing FFXIV right now. But P2P goes against my religion so I have to pass it up till it fails and goes F2P like everything else does.

If there’s something I like enough in Gem store I’ll pay money for it np. I like cosmetic stuff. Subscription is just ugly and makes me feel like I’m not getting what I paid for and/or wasting money.

When buying the game and expansions or gem store skins you’re immediately getting what you want at once and don’t need to pay monthly hoping they actually put the money to good use with updates. They can also abuse subs by making things as grindy as possible so people sub longer, which can backfire like it did with Aion. Then the game dies or goes F2P and all that money feels wasted. You also don’t feel like you’re wasting money by not logging in for a few days/weeks.

Doggie.3184:

P2P goes against my religion

You sir, win the internets.

iFocus.3781:

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

There’s a bit more to it. In multiplayer games, the players themselves are part of the content of the game. It is important to have a strong, vibrant community in game, both to play with and to play against. The player that sticks around for the game and isn’t mean spirited is adding to the quality of game, making it more appealing to the public at large and making buying the game a more attractive investment. Players who don’t buy a thing from the gem shop are contributing to the profits of the game indirectly in this manner, both with new sales and with making the game enjoyable enough for players to want to spend gems in it.

You don’t pay for gems, do you?

Sure, everyone contributes in some manner. But, you lurking about isn’t going to pay for Anet’s employees unless you actively recruit friends to join.

Actually it is even without actively recruiting people to join. A larger playerbase an MMO has the more people willing to check it out and the longer people stay around thus not only increasing box sales but potentially increasing gem sales too while also providing data for the devs to use to improve their game and potentially increase income further.

Xae Isareth.1364:

There’s a reason why games these days don’t do standard subscription models anymore. It just doesn’t work.

When every other game in competition with you does a B2P/microtrans model, you simply can’t sell the game on a subs model.

Except they do standard subs still. The new titles coming out in the next year do often have subs, and the MMOs that have added f2p still have subs as an option because obviously there is still an interest in it.

Even NcSoft, you know the company that Anet belongs to, is using a sub model for their current blade and soul and their next game Wildstar again.

I would suggest doing a bit of research before making any outrageous comments like this. What you say is simply not true.

Gehenna.3625:

This game is brought out by Anet, they are part of NcSoft. NcSoft is coming out with a new game which is called Wildstart. It will have a sub, but they will allow you to earn your sub ingame as you can use the first month free with the box purchase to build up enough in game cash to pay for your sub. Of course you’d have to keep that up every month.

My point is, Anet went B2P with microtransactions. If it had been a totally convincing success, I am sure they would use it again. But instead we see new MMOs coming out with subs. Wildstar is just one of them.

My guess is that Anet did ok for themselves but NcSoft’s financial reports show that GW2 is not making much more money than Aion this year. Certainly not much more as you would expect from a new game. So I’m sure it’s good enough for GW2 but apparently not for new games coming out to adopt this strategy.

And as much as players who don’t buy gems are part of the overall experience, the OP is right that they don’t bring in cash but do bring in cost. This game will only survive long term if enough people spend cakitten the gemstore. And that’s a simply reality.

Honestly I like subs better because it’s a filter for gold sellers but also because you can expect more quality of a game. GW2 looks pretty but the limitations of the game are also clearly showing by now. And if a company has 2 games and one makes 20 million per quarter and the other 24 million but has double the players and accompanying costs, then the first game is a better deal for the company. It’s just an example, but sales and profit margins are cold necessities for companies and they only come with income.

The game is called Wildstar. Also I can’t seem to find the information on their payment method. Where did you hear it was b2p then p2p

RoRo.8270:

Gehenna.3625:

This game is brought out by Anet, they are part of NcSoft. NcSoft is coming out with a new game which is called Wildstart. It will have a sub, but they will allow you to earn your sub ingame as you can use the first month free with the box purchase to build up enough in game cash to pay for your sub. Of course you’d have to keep that up every month.

The game is called Wildstar. Also I can’t seem to find the information on their payment method. Where did you hear it was b2p then p2p

Yes a t too many. It is Wildstar….I could find it quite easily with google. I never said it was b2p, my point was that even though Anet went B2P, NcSoft the parent company still doesn’t.

Wildstar will have a sub, but alternatively you can use the first month you get with the box purchase to start saving in game for CREDDS. This allows you buy your sub every month with in game cash. That will of course reduce your purchasing power inside the game and if ever you don’t make it one month, you will need to get a month’s sub at least to start over again.

http://www.wildstar-online.com/en/the-game/business-model/

It’s all on their website so I have no idea why you couldn’t find it. Learn 2 Google? :p

Azure Prower.8701:

Would rather pay a sub. That way I know quality is assured and not simply pushed with token content to buy from the gem store to gain full access to every thing the game has to offer.

Reason why I never purchase gems from the gem store is because I’ll know I’ll never get full access to the game no matter how much I spend. Thus I don’t support it.

Offering a purchasable expansion is the only time I’ll “whip out the good ole credit card” instead of buying virtual items.

there is no content that requires you to purchase gems to access there maybe items only available from the store but you can trade in game currency for gems to access it

I thin ArenaNet’s model of B2P and some microtransactions in the gem store is overall, not a bad idea. Their problem is, like everything else GW2, they couldn’t implement it properly.

That said – I’d rather pay a sub for a good game than deal with monetization and being nickled-and-dimed to death. I just want to log on and play a fun game, not worry about the economics of the gem store.

iFocus.3781:

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

There’s a bit more to it. In multiplayer games, the players themselves are part of the content of the game. It is important to have a strong, vibrant community in game, both to play with and to play against. The player that sticks around for the game and isn’t mean spirited is adding to the quality of game, making it more appealing to the public at large and making buying the game a more attractive investment. Players who don’t buy a thing from the gem shop are contributing to the profits of the game indirectly in this manner, both with new sales and with making the game enjoyable enough for players to want to spend gems in it.

You don’t pay for gems, do you?

Sure, everyone contributes in some manner. But, you lurking about isn’t going to pay for Anet’s employees unless you actively recruit friends to join.

I have played this game since BW3, and frankly I find large parts of the community antisocial and alienating – especially the elite community – who just happens to be the one’s complaining about having to pay for things.

I have paid for gems. Please, for the love of all that is fuzzy and feline in nature, pay attention to what is said, and not whom is saying it. Anyway, being an active member in the game itself is enough to to encourage other people to buy the game, since the larger the player base of an MMO, the more attractive it is to perspective customers. I’m surprised no one has brought it up yet, but I find this to be a fairly relevant video:

particularly at 2:20 and on, where they talk about the free to play nature of multiplayer games.

Another function of the gem store, an one that isn’t often talked about, is the function as a money sink. Though there are a lot of complaints about the gem store, many from principle, a big secondary complaint is that a lot of players can’t afford to buy gems with their in-game money. What goes unsaid is that there are a lot of players that can. I’ve seen players in the game who have hundreds upon hundreds of gold, sometimes thousands of gold. To these players, the horror story of 10g = 100 gems isn’t even worth leering at. They’re capable of blowing gems on khaki shorts on a whim, and when they do this they’re ultimately taking gold out of the economy.

As of late, I’ve fallen into this category. Now I don’t have hundreds of gold but I do have a lot more gold than I do expenses. Considering my lack of real world funds, this is an extremely fair system to me as a whole, and also to anyone else who lacks real world money. Like kids.

Now, the flipside to this is that the gemstore does have the option to let someone who is real world rich become insanely rich in the game just by spending money. This in itself isn’t a bad thing, because although they drive up inflation to a certain extent, they putting money directly into NCsoft’s pocket, thereby making the game profitable. Though the gemstore does have a lot of complaints, I’ve found it to be a meaningful tool to the game, both to those who want to support the game directly with money, and those who want to support the game by being good people to play with.

As for the community, the one in GW2 actually isn’t that bad. I’ve seen a lot worse elsewhere. Although there is a general downward trend I’ve been noticing as of late.

Gehenna.3625:

Xae Isareth.1364:

There’s a reason why games these days don’t do standard subscription models anymore. It just doesn’t work.

When every other game in competition with you does a B2P/microtrans model, you simply can’t sell the game on a subs model.

Except they do standard subs still. The new titles coming out in the next year do often have subs, and the MMOs that have added f2p still have subs as an option because obviously there is still an interest in it.

Even NcSoft, you know the company that Anet belongs to, is using a sub model for their current blade and soul and their next game Wildstar again.

I would suggest doing a bit of research before making any outrageous comments like this. What you say is simply not true.

Actually, Arenanet making gw2 b2p is keeping with their believe they have HELD since BEFORE they go purchase by NCsoft. And it is pretty cool of Ncsoft to let ARenanet do what it wanted with that model.

Blade and soul is subscription only in Korea, in china is going f2p. Wildstar is an unproven title so you really cannot make a statement about it UNTIL after it releases. Even still then, you have to wait until 6 months before anything conclusive.

Hasn’t it been proven that F2P/Cashshop games generate more income that subs. More money for the Studio to put out more quality content. Whether they do it or not is entirely up to them. What P2P model does that F2P doesn’t is filter the community and discourage trolls from immigrating. Trolls won’t spend 15$ a month just to grief other players, they come to GW2 to do that. Personally, I’m don’t play sub games out of principle. I spent just as much money on the GW2 cash shop s I would have on anyway sub game but at least here is was voluntary not mandatory. I don’t like paying subscriptions but I will give money to support a game I like, just don’t want to be forced to do it.

When I found out that ESO was going to be subscription based it brought a major smile to my face.

As the OP said, ANet is a company interested in making a profit. When your on going source of income, after initial sale of the game, is ‘macro’ (the RL cash value on the virtual items is too big to be considered micro) transactions in the gem store, then you want to try and convince people to spend their money on what’s available there.

I believe the quality of the content takes a huge hit as new content is designed with getting people to spend real money in mind.

Quality becomes even more important when you are trying to successfully run a P2P model along side F2P models like GW2. If the quality of the content of the P2P model game is on par with the F2P model game, then why bother going with the P2P model game?

A sub model also gives the company a more reliable and stable source of income to work with. The company can better plan future content because the future income is more easily predicted.

Also, having a monthly sub in a free to play market helps act as a player base filter. Ensuring that those who don’t think it’s worth it don’t make up too large of a % of the in game player population. Seriously it works out to be 50 cents a day. If you don’t think the game is worth playing at 50 cents a day, then don’t play. You’ll be better off by not playing and those that do think it’s worth it will be better off by not having you play.

However, there is this….

http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/821/view/news/read/28426/Elder-Scrolls-Online-Item-Shop-News.html

Sounds like they might be double dipping. I certainly hope not. I hope they abandon the online shop before release. They’ve said by having the sub that people won’t have content gated behind a cash shop, so what could they possibly put in the cash shop besides Account Services (Name changes, sex changes, faction changes, etc.)?

Vanity items? How is that any different than what GW2’s cash shop then?

Part of why I left Aion, aside from cheap combat mechanics, was how the game was basically Dress-up Doll Online. With the plush back packs, little minis, and some other items, it’ll be one of the reasons I’ll leave GW2. I fear, however, that ESO will have the same crap which doesn’t stay true to the TES titles at all.

In DH there is a player in LA. They’re often found dancing in their underwear with boxing gloves on, bunny ears, and a plush quaggan backpack.

I’m sorry but if I’m entering into an Ayleid ruin, I don’t want to come across another player wearing a plush mudcrab backpack followed by a mini flame atronach I’ll uninstall the game right there.

I’m not a role player but I like games that enforce a certain atmosphere and crap like that would absolutely kill the Elderscroll’s atmosphere.

As a fan of TES, I’ll buy the game to both check it out and support the title but if they have a cash shop filled with the kind of crap that my 5 year old daughter would find most appealing (much of what’s found in GW2’s cash shop), then I won’t play beyond the 30 days that come with purchase.

I actually think Gw2 is making more money in the gem store the say the big completion with the monthly subscription. For 120 dollars you can get a full year of most monthly subscription games. In GW2 100 dollars gives you 8000 gems which you can blow through quite fast.

Oh and the plush quaggan attire is to attract little girls. They are looking the young teen market and figure to attract some girls and not just boys. One game, many markets, much money, that’s their motto.

Also, keep in mind that GW2 is a B2P model, not a F2P model. There is a difference.

That’s cute…. the OP thinks they need money.

When they needed money in Gw1, they planned more expansions. Any MMO, you can tell when they’re desperate, is when they put out more expansions, especially excessive triviality or powercreep ones …. which can actually go in BOTH EXTREMES if you look at the last WoW expansions.

Meanwhile this studio is admitting up and down that they haven’t even given serious thought to any expansions yet. They were actually CLOSER to knowing where they wanted to go with expansion scheduling 2 years ago. You know what that’s called? It’s called financial freedom. They already sold 3 million copies of this game. It took them more than 2 years to sell 3 million copies of Prophecies & Factions combined. And on top of that, they’re also getting a lot more Microtransactions than the first game got in its first couple years.

So no, they don’t NEED money. That’s a lie. Stop misrepresenting the truth plz, to justify whatever it is you’re attempting to justify…

Azure Prower.8701:

Would rather pay a sub. That way I know quality is assured (snip)

Are you implying that every game with a sub releases only quality content? Because I keep hearing this argument really often and I wonder how paying monthly assures anything.

Deamhan.9538:

When I found out that ESO was going to be subscription based it brought a major smile to my face.

Lol they still havent changed their mind?

ESO was questionable from the start (being based on the mediocre SWTOR engine and all) but a subscription fee pretty much seal the deal – its going to fail just like every other game has unless its a really, really, really good game. Which I seriously doubt it is.

Bah! Subscription fees remain the largest money scam in gaming history. You dont pay to get “quality” content. You pay for the possibility to get “quality” content. And people think ingame RNG is bad…

ilr.9675:

That’s cute…. the OP thinks they need money.

When they needed money in Gw1, they planned more expansions. Any MMO, you can tell when they’re desperate, is when they put out more expansions, especially excessive triviality or powercreep ones …. which can actually go in BOTH EXTREMES if you look at the last WoW expansions.

Meanwhile this studio is admitting up and down that they haven’t even given serious thought to any expansions yet. They were actually CLOSER to knowing where they wanted to go with expansion scheduling 2 years ago. You know what that’s called? It’s called financial freedom. They already sold 3 million copies of this game. It took them more than 2 years to sell 3 million copies of Prophecies & Factions combined. And on top of that, they’re also getting a lot more Microtransactions than the first game got in its first couple years.

So no, they don’t NEED money. That’s a lie. Stop misrepresenting the truth plz, to justify whatever it is you’re attempting to justify…

In fairness, and with all due respect, it seems that you are basing your conclusions on the extent to which they have covered their development costs and are able to cover ongoing operating costs. There is also the required profit and return to shareholders who invested their money and continue to hold ownership positions. As shareholders, we get our reward for investing in companies such as this by having our shareholder value increased over time. That can be through stock price appreciation or through dividends…and I honestly don’t know what the dividend policy is at NCSoft. My point, though, is that profit is a requirement…not a “nice to have” thing.

As for how much profit they should make…as a shareholder my response is as much as they can (without breaking the law). If profits are excessive, economists tell us that the “market will fill”…that is, excessive profits will draw new market participants (new companies) and gradually the profits come down to some stable level as the amount of money spent by consumers is spread over more companies.

Sorry…perhaps a long-winded way of saying that a company will pursue profits as long as they are there to be had. Suggesting that they should not pursue them simply because they have enough money now makes little business sense. As to whether their best bet is new expansion versus gem stores versus subscriptions…I would expect that their marketing and financial people have looked very closely at this. Successful business strategy is rarely happenstance.