Guild Wars 2

AFK necrofarms are objectively toxic. Because on one hand it’s “legal” botting on the other hand it’s a catch up mechanic for people who can’t play as long as others (???).

Either A: Implement a more straightforward way to AFK farm in this game, like they did in BDO, where you can AFK fish, train horses to sell, process materials into more expensive ones, collect water for cooking over a period of 10+ hours while AFKing, this is supported by the game and isn’t compulsory.

Or B: Fix the fact that autocast counts as input, cause it shouldn’t, and kick people if there isn’t any input after a certain time, even if they are in combat.

Meanwhile I will keep reporting AFK necrofarmers as botters if they consistently do damage to monsters and won’t respond after 30 seconds, because the in-game report feature, under botting, doesn’t mention that a 3rd party program has to be involved.

Chris Cleary.8017:

I’ll pitch in on this thread, as there seems to be some confusion about this situation.

The auto-cast feature was never intended to be used as an AFK farming mechanism, and usage of the auto-cast feature while AFK is fine as long as it is not used to facilitate unattended gameplay.

Mastery auto-loot also stopping players from being flagged afk seems like a bug instead of a feature, and I’ll be sure to bring it up today while we have a chat about this internally.

1) Using skill (1 or more) while AFK
2) AFKing in a place where it is beneficial for your character to be at
3) Unresponsive to interaction with GMs

If all 3 of these apply to what you are doing, you may get actioned for it.

It’s not “legal” if they meet all three of those criteria. Generally, they’ll fail the 3rd if they are truly AFK.

sigh Yet another AFK farming thread? Merge please?

I don’t see how any of the mentioned BDO stuff adds any kind of fun to the game. Gathering water? Really? I’m more in favor of Anet figuring out how to log out AFKers better.

DeanBB.4268:

sigh Yet another AFK farming thread? Merge please?

Yes, as long people perceive this as a problem, they will post about it, and people will see this as a problem as long as they see people AFK farming, which seems to be everywhere.

My question is; what’s the take on inattentive play?

Being 100% afk literally away from the keyboard, asleep, what ever. Vs being inattentive present, but not really paying attention, playing something else at the same time, working on another screen etc.

The first type of player would be caught by all three of those conditions, the second type however would possibly see the interaction and respond. Both are barely playing, standing in a single area killing and making gains. If the only way a player is guilty of this action is falling under all three marks, it seems that 100%bot type afk farming is illegal, but inattentive play is mostly ok.

Miku.6297:

My question is; what’s the take on inattentive play?

Being 100% afk literally away from the keyboard, asleep, what ever. Vs being inattentive present, but not really paying attention, playing something else at the same time, working on another screen etc.

According to the ANet posts on the subject, inattentive play, where you occasionally interact with the computer, and are able to respond to a GM when they talk to you, is just fine.

(note: this does not mean that a player needs to respond to you, another player, in any way, if you decide to whisper them or whatever yourself, to “see if they are AFK” or something.)

We can have whatever opinion on that decision we want, but the fact is: ANet have been explicitly clear that this is sufficient to be “not afk” for the definition of actionable afk stuff.

Buro.3576:

AFK necrofarms are objectively toxic. […]

Meanwhile I will keep reporting AFK necrofarmers as botters if they consistently do damage to monsters and won’t respond after 30 seconds, because the in-game report feature, under botting, doesn’t mention that a 3rd party program has to be involved.

My pedantry refuses to let this past: your opinions are not in any way more objective than any other opinions, and any argument that requires accepting otherwise is weak, at best.

At the end of the day, though:

One, there is absolutely no obligation for a player to do anything other than ignore you, and I certainly have a policy that if someone whispers me asking “are you a bot” while I’m playing the game, I just ignore them — nothing productive is going to come out of any answer.

(Also, this happens when I’m actively running around farming stuff. I guess … I’m a bit mechanical or something? Feels bad, yo, and that is with the most neutral “are you botting?” question, let alone when it comes with frothing insults.)

Two, you are absolutely, positively correct to keep reporting these using the in-game tools. ANet will investigate and take action as appropriate.

Three, there is nothing of value going to come out of posting this thread. People who agree with you already agree with you. People who don’t, already don’t. It’s not going to change hearts or minds. Just … report that stuff and move on.

(and if it’s too annoying that anet don’t take the action you want taken, consider if “move on” should apply to the entire game, in favor of something that does have the rules you want?)

SlippyCheeze.5483:

According to the ANet posts on the subject, inattentive play, where you occasionally interact with the computer, and are able to respond to a GM when they talk to you, is just fine.
We can have whatever opinion on that decision we want, but the fact is: ANet have been explicitly clear that this is sufficient to be “not afk” for the definition of actionable afk stuff.

Ahh k, Thanks for the info, that was what I was wondering. I really wasn’t forming an opinion on the matter, or question the validity of A-nets stance, I was simply asking what it was.

What is the time frame a person would have to respond to GM interaction? instantly? 5 mins? 10 mins? 20 mins?

SlippyCheeze.5483:

My pedantry refuses to let this past: your opinions are not in any way more objective than any other opinions, and any argument that requires accepting otherwise is weak, at best.

At the end of the day, though:

One, there is absolutely no obligation for a player to do anything other than ignore you, and I certainly have a policy that if someone whispers me asking “are you a bot” while I’m playing the game, I just ignore them — nothing productive is going to come out of any answer.

(Also, this happens when I’m actively running around farming stuff. I guess … I’m a bit mechanical or something? Feels bad, yo, and that is with the most neutral “are you botting?” question, let alone when it comes with frothing insults.)

Two, you are absolutely, positively correct to keep reporting these using the in-game tools. ANet will investigate and take action as appropriate.

Three, there is nothing of value going to come out of posting this thread. People who agree with you already agree with you. People who don’t, already don’t. It’s not going to change hearts or minds. Just … report that stuff and move on.

(and if it’s too annoying that anet don’t take the action you want taken, consider if “move on” should apply to the entire game, in favor of something that does have the rules you want?)

By objectively toxic I mean that this subject produces polar opinions and sparks unhealthy debate, I do not state that my opinion is objective, but you cannot deny that this subject is heated and unpleasant. Besides as you can see I don’t feel strongly one way or another, my opinion is simply that we need a fix so that farms are either supported or unsupported.

Also I specifically named this thread the way I did to sarcastically point out that this subject is constantly discussed yet we still haven’t seen any direct or indirect action in any of the countless patches since the issue became apparent.

These threads create pressure and only constant pressure can produce change, even if my tiny thread won’t be seen by anyone important, I still have right to post a thread about necrofarms if I don’t see one on the 1st or 2nd page.

There, actually, has been some ‘direct or indirect action’ taken.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Game_updates/2016-06-01

(Changed after threads about AFK farming.)

Now, whether the playerbase, or ArenaNet (more importantly) feels this change was adequate is unknown.

Buro.3576:

By objectively toxic I mean that this subject produces polar opinions and sparks unhealthy debate, I do not state that my opinion is objective, but you cannot deny that this subject is heated and unpleasant.

Superman vs Batman match-ups produce polar opinions and can spark unhealthy debate — that doesn’t make the idea toxic.

And I do deny that the subject is necessarily heated or unpleasant. Some people have perfectly reasonable opinions about multiple aspects of AFK farming, about inattentive farming, and about necromancer builds related to either. Some people have trouble expressing their opinion graciously regardless of the topic.

The use of hyperbole to make a point is always risky, especially if the goal is to have a productive discussion about the issue.

Put another way, do you really want to be defending the words used to make your points? Or would you prefer to be discussing the substance of your ideas?

That is one weird comparison. Super man vs Bat man compared to afk farming. Super man vs batman has no clear right or wrong, while true AFK farming is against the rules according to A-net.

While it’s true the topic and discussion can be handled in a civil way, I agree with the OP that the topic tends to lend its self to causing more unhealthy debates. The bottom line is, go by the post Ayri quoted, if you see someone you think is afk farming just report them and let A-net handle it form there.

i always see few in Kessex Hill , at the toxic plant location because i always go there when i do my Krytan forager.

Miku.6297:

That is one weird comparison. Super man vs Bat man compared to afk farming. Super man vs batman has no clear right or wrong, while true AFK farming is against the rules according to A-net.

I guess I wasn’t clear — a topic cannot be toxic, regardless of how passionate people are about it. I wasn’t comparing them in any other way, besides the fact that people have strong feelings about both and some cannot manage to engage in civil discourse while others can.

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

I guess I wasn’t clear — a topic cannot be toxic, regardless of how passionate people are about it. I wasn’t comparing them in any other way, besides the fact that people have strong feelings about both and some cannot manage to engage in civil discourse while others can.

Nope you were clear, I just found the comparison topics an odd choice as one has no clearly defined rules (sup vs bat); while this topic (afk farming) is actually against the rules if you fall under all three marks for violation.

A topic can be toxic in the respect that it creates a toxic environment or has a tendency towards toxicity. Every time I have logged into any area that AFK farmers or inattentive farms tend to be, if you see someone comment about them 90% of the time the /map conversation takes a turn for the worst. Honestly as A-net has given their stance on the matter all people can do is follow the suggested course of action and hope for the best.

azizul.8469:

i always see few in Kessex Hill , at the toxic plant location because i always go there when i do my Krytan forager.

The ones that are gathering are likely actual bots however, using software to press F on a timer. There are far more doing it than you’ll see standing there and I doubt anything will ever be done to them because they’re only in-game for a few seconds at a time. The ones farming trees in Orr are so obvious, and I’ve seen them around for years.

Healix.5819:

azizul.8469:

i always see few in Kessex Hill , at the toxic plant location because i always go there when i do my Krytan forager.

The ones that are gathering are likely actual bots however, using software to press F on a timer. There are far more doing it than you’ll see standing there and I doubt anything will ever be done to them because they’re only in-game for a few seconds at a time. The ones farming trees in Orr are so obvious, and I’ve seen them around for years.

See, the bold is why the conversation turns pointless. I don’t know anyone who doesn’t park some of their characters at gathering nodes locations. When people are logging in and out of character to gather, it’s not a bot, it a person playing the game!

Players place some truly warped expectations of what other should be doing with their play time in game.

I dunno man, those AFK necro guys are like spiders. It’s a little gross and skeevy when you see ’em around but they kinda help us out. Makes my winterberry farm a lot smoother when they clear the mobs and draw aggro so I can just harvest in peace.

Miku.6297:

SlippyCheeze.5483:

According to the ANet posts on the subject, inattentive play, where you occasionally interact with the computer, and are able to respond to a GM when they talk to you, is just fine.
We can have whatever opinion on that decision we want, but the fact is: ANet have been explicitly clear that this is sufficient to be “not afk” for the definition of actionable afk stuff.

Ahh k, Thanks for the info, that was what I was wondering. I really wasn’t forming an opinion on the matter, or question the validity of A-nets stance, I was simply asking what it was.

What is the time frame a person would have to respond to GM interaction? instantly? 5 mins? 10 mins? 20 mins?

We can only guess, since ANet have not told us, but … I’d expect them to check for the “mechanical” bits first: are they standing still somewhere beneficial, killing things, etc.

So, by the time they get a GM whisper it’s pretty much “is a human watching this at all”, and that’s going to be close to an instant response required sort of thing, I’d guess?

^I believe they did give an approximate time frame for answering. I don’t remember what it was (maybe 10 or 15 minutes?), ankitten ot motivated enough, right now, to look it up. But, it was during the time when all this was responded to by the Devs awhile back, either on the Forums or on Reddit (linked to from the Forums).

Good luck.

Fivona.5061:

Abusing game mechanics allowed.

Friendlisted many afk farmers to check their status, they still “play” everyday for months.

Reported billions of them, opened tickets. Anet says it is forbidden and we “AWARE” “CARE”.

I don’t see any actions taken.

Be thankful as abusing the reporting feature is bannable too.

Fivona.5061:

DeWolfe.2174:

Fivona.5061:

Abusing game mechanics allowed.

Friendlisted many afk farmers to check their status, they still “play” everyday for months.

Reported billions of them, opened tickets. Anet says it is forbidden and we “AWARE” “CARE”.

I don’t see any actions taken.

Be thankful as abusing the reporting feature is bannable too.

Abuse ?
Nevermind. I won’t argue with “Afk Farmer”.

It’s not really constructive to make a personal attack on them by claiming they’re just an “AFK farmer” simply because they disagree with you. Why not counter their statement about abusing the reporting feature as being bannable instead?

Fivona.5061:

Ayrilana.1396:

Fivona.5061:

DeWolfe.2174:

Fivona.5061:

Abusing game mechanics allowed.

Friendlisted many afk farmers to check their status, they still “play” everyday for months.

Reported billions of them, opened tickets. Anet says it is forbidden and we “AWARE” “CARE”.

I don’t see any actions taken.

Be thankful as abusing the reporting feature is bannable too.

Abuse ?
Nevermind. I won’t argue with “Afk Farmer”.

It’s not really constructive to make a personal attack on them by claiming they’re just an “AFK farmer” simply because they disagree with you. Why not counter their statement about abusing the reporting feature as being bannable instead?

Maybe reporting “AFK Farmers” not abuse ?
Meh. Why i even try. Probably another Afk Farmer defending their toxic kind.

As Ayrilana pointed out in what you quoted, your thoughts and ideas won’t go anywhere if you make personal attacks; you simply make your own stance look weaker. Discuss the issue at hand.

Fivona.5061:

Ayrilana.1396:

Fivona.5061:

DeWolfe.2174:

Fivona.5061:

Abusing game mechanics allowed.

Friendlisted many afk farmers to check their status, they still “play” everyday for months.

Reported billions of them, opened tickets. Anet says it is forbidden and we “AWARE” “CARE”.

I don’t see any actions taken.

Be thankful as abusing the reporting feature is bannable too.

Abuse ?
Nevermind. I won’t argue with “Afk Farmer”.

It’s not really constructive to make a personal attack on them by claiming they’re just an “AFK farmer” simply because they disagree with you. Why not counter their statement about abusing the reporting feature as being bannable instead?

Maybe reporting “AFK Farmers” not abuse ?
Meh. Why i even try. Probably another Afk Farmer defending their toxic kind.

you: I disagree with you, so you must be a toxic AFK-farmer
P2: maybe you should come up with constructive arguments instead of insults?
you: You defend them, you must be another toxic AFK-farmer

I think wherever the toxins come from, we can pretty much guess who’s taking the lethal dosage here

Fivona.5061:

Amaimon.7823:

Fivona.5061:

Ayrilana.1396:

Fivona.5061:

DeWolfe.2174:

Fivona.5061:

Abusing game mechanics allowed.

Friendlisted many afk farmers to check their status, they still “play” everyday for months.

Reported billions of them, opened tickets. Anet says it is forbidden and we “AWARE” “CARE”.

I don’t see any actions taken.

Be thankful as abusing the reporting feature is bannable too.

Abuse ?
Nevermind. I won’t argue with “Afk Farmer”.

It’s not really constructive to make a personal attack on them by claiming they’re just an “AFK farmer” simply because they disagree with you. Why not counter their statement about abusing the reporting feature as being bannable instead?

Maybe reporting “AFK Farmers” not abuse ?
Meh. Why i even try. Probably another Afk Farmer defending their toxic kind.

you: I disagree with you, so you must be a toxic AFK-farmer
P2: maybe you should come up with constructive arguments instead of insults?
you: You defend them, you must be another toxic AFK-farmer

I think wherever the toxins come from, we can pretty much guess who’s taking the lethal dosage here

I am defending Anet’s rules. So if you disagree with me you disagree with Anet.
So you are cheater. Means toxic.
Got it ?

yup, that’s where the toxins went.

Amaimon.7823:

Fivona.5061:

Ayrilana.1396:

Fivona.5061:

DeWolfe.2174:

Fivona.5061:

Abusing game mechanics allowed.

Friendlisted many afk farmers to check their status, they still “play” everyday for months.

Reported billions of them, opened tickets. Anet says it is forbidden and we “AWARE” “CARE”.

I don’t see any actions taken.

Be thankful as abusing the reporting feature is bannable too.

Abuse ?
Nevermind. I won’t argue with “Afk Farmer”.

It’s not really constructive to make a personal attack on them by claiming they’re just an “AFK farmer” simply because they disagree with you. Why not counter their statement about abusing the reporting feature as being bannable instead?

Maybe reporting “AFK Farmers” not abuse ?
Meh. Why i even try. Probably another Afk Farmer defending their toxic kind.

you: I disagree with you, so you must be a toxic AFK-farmer
P2: maybe you should come up with constructive arguments instead of insults?
you: You defend them, you must be another toxic AFK-farmer

I think wherever the toxins come from, we can pretty much guess who’s taking the lethal dosage here

Looks like another case of bloodstone madness.

While I do agree simply attacking another poster isn’t constructive in the least. The post that started this part of the conversation

DeWolfe.2174:

Be thankful as abusing the reporting feature is bannable too.

Does tend to imply the poster feels the person he/she is responding to is abusing the report feature. Reporting afk farming (or what appears to be) is not abuse.

In my opinion, Anet should either give all professions some traits that protect them / kill mobs automatically, or they should stop Necros and Rangers from being able to do that. I think it’s silly to be able to gain from not actively playing the game, but if Anet wants to continue to allow only 2 professions to do so, give the rest of the professions the means to do it also.