Guild Wars 2

Where did anet say endgame starts at level 1?

Removing levels would actually be ok if they fixed the scaling system so everything is a challenge at level 80.

The problems that are most apparent with levels on this game:

1) universal experience. makes no kitten sense for me to be making blueberry cookies, cheeseburgers, and stare off at the landscape yet suddenly become more effective in combat.
2) level cap isn’t an achievement of any sort, it’s just a standard.
3) you can bypass levels with scrolls…

Knighthonor.4061:

Now with the recent bad trait system update, the game focus more and more on endgame.

When Anet stated “Endgame starts at level 1”

We know that statement isnt true, especially now after recent update.

People already pointed out how levels have been pointless grinds before, due to the scaling system.There was really no point of having a leveling system.

Now with the recent change, the Leveling reward has greatly been reduced to the point that it once again support the suggestion of getting rid of the Leveling all together.

Just start everybody off at level 80 in whatever starter zone their race is, and let them make their own journey from there. Fully Horizontal progression, with no useless leveling and zone levels in our face anymore.

Give us full trait points from start, but unlock new traits by doing task. No longer grind trait points.
Same for unlocking new skills. Add new skills in the game world and players discover them by playing in the world.

Let us make our own journey instead of developers forcing a journey of their own on us with the leveling/zone levels system.

Please get rid of CHARACTER LEVELS!!!

This sounds a lot Like what made WoW the game it is. “The game begins at 80.” You know I have played many games since EverQuest, and I never heard " The Game begins at 80." til i played WoW.

Before then levels came slow. It took it’s time getting to level cap. level cap was a memorable accomplishment because it took a long time In coming. Today’s players would consider it a" grind".

As I see it the devs may want to slow down the levelling with that in mind. I will be the first to admit, I would love for the game to be slower still from 1 til 80.

I do understand why many players that had their main exposure to MMO’s as WoW, and WoW clones may not Like a slower levelling game.

I guess Like many things,….I can appreciate when slower is good.

Purple Miku.7032:

The problems that are most apparent with levels on this game:

1) universal experience. makes no kitten sense for me to be making blueberry cookies, cheeseburgers, and stare off at the landscape yet suddenly become more effective in combat.
2) level cap isn’t an achievement of any sort, it’s just a standard.
3) you can bypass levels with scrolls…

Thank you so much for Proving my point.

I don’t know ANY MMO games that don’t use a form of leveling as a way of progression. Not one.

DakotaCoty.5721:

I don’t know ANY MMO games that don’t use a form of leveling as a way of progression. Not one.

There are games that have no levelling. But those are primarilly action games, and FPS… etc. The MMO that takes levelling out of it’s experience ceases to be an MMO…

well said.

I agree with the sentiment, I never thought leveling made sense for video games in general (unless it was a set time span game [mobas] or a party based game where distribution of XP held some strategic value [strategy rpgs like fire emblem, pokemon etc])

I’d rather see a game with skill based progression, that is to say, you never level but there are harder zones and you need to compensate by getting better at the game. I feel like gear ought to work similarly. Getting new stuff should be about diversifying options not increasing stats. This would shift the enjoyment back onto the content rather than it always being about what gave the best loot or the fastest xp over time.

That said, it won’t happen. Level systems are used to develop attachment to a game and your characters so you will stay a loyal customer even if you grow bored because you already sank enough time that you don’t want to throw it away. Its pretty essential to making MMOs profitable, as well as making the player base large enough to keep the community feeling.

DakotaCoty.5721:

I don’t know ANY MMO games that don’t use a form of leveling as a way of progression. Not one.

On paper anyway, TSW doesn’t use levels…but that’s just on paper. lol

If that’s the case, then they shouldn’t implement such an awful one. Right now it’s basically “you’re either 80 or you aren’t.”

No levels have any significance at all until 80. Sure, you unlock access to an elite at some point along with multiple utility slots but no one will let you participate in anything other than open world zerg content where your presence there likely has so insignificant of an impact on the outcome that it only reinforces my point that nothing matters until 80, at least in PvE.

I actually like leveling in GW2.
No offense or anything Knighthonor, this is all just biased, as is a ton of other posts on the forums. I get what you’re saying, but don’t try to force your opinions of what should or shouldn’t happen onto other people who don’t feel the same way…just saying.

Seriously? Leveling in this game is so easy it isn’t even funny. Removing it would solve nothing.

DakotaCoty.5721:

I don’t know ANY MMO games that don’t use a form of leveling as a way of progression. Not one.

Many MMOs dont. the first MMOs didnt have character levels. it had other forms of progression.
Didnt need a number on your avatar to tell you your progression.

Knighthonor.4061:

DakotaCoty.5721:

I don’t know ANY MMO games that don’t use a form of leveling as a way of progression. Not one.

Many MMOs dont. the first MMOs didnt have character levels. it had other forms of progression.
Didnt need a number on your avatar to tell you your progression.

Yes they did.
Tibia: Skill and Level progression
TSW: Weapon progression and spell buildups
DCUO: Achievement progression to unlock more weapons
Aion: Leveling
Perfect World: Leveling

If an MMO doesn’t have some form of numerical progression, whether it be item refinery (Jade Dynasty), or character levels then it really isn’t filling up to that ‘MMO’ standard that we have today.

Leveling in guildwars is fairly easy:
- Crafting, now gives 12 levels instead of 10.
- Events
- Hearts
- Eye of the Mists is perfect for leveling, got my ranger from 20-26 in just 1 hour.

#TheMoreYouKnow.

DakotaCoty.5721:

Knighthonor.4061:

DakotaCoty.5721:

I don’t know ANY MMO games that don’t use a form of leveling as a way of progression. Not one.

Many MMOs dont. the first MMOs didnt have character levels. it had other forms of progression.
Didnt need a number on your avatar to tell you your progression.

Yes they did.
Tibia: Skill and Level progression
TSW: Weapon progression and spell buildups
DCUO: Achievement progression to unlock more weapons
Aion: Leveling
Perfect World: Leveling

If an MMO doesn’t have some form of numerical progression, whether it be item refinery (Jade Dynasty), or character levels then it really isn’t filling up to that ‘MMO’ standard that we have today.

Leveling in guildwars is fairly easy:
- Crafting, now gives 12 levels instead of 10.
- Events
- Hearts
- Eye of the Mists is perfect for leveling, got my ranger from 20-26 in just 1 hour.

#TheMoreYouKnow.

Progression doesnt have to be character levels though.
Nowhere is it stated that a MMO needs to have Character levels in order for it to be a MMO. UO didnt have character levels yet was the first MMO.

I sort of like levels… I’m ok with having them.

I know if levels were removed I’d have at least 1 guildie that wouldn’t know what to do with herself. It’s literally all she does. She makes a character, builds it to 80, wipes it and starts over. The girl can’t set and focus on a long term goal even if her life depended on it, but she can roll and reroll a character to 80…. forever and ever. Its a little strange.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

I sort of like levels… I’m ok with having them.

I know if levels were removed I’d have at least 1 guildie that wouldn’t know what to do with herself. It’s literally all she does. She makes a character, builds it to 80, wipes it and starts over. The girl can’t set and focus on a long term goal even if her life depended on it, but she can roll and reroll a character to 80…. forever and ever. Its a little strange.

She/he could just play the game, complete task then wipe the character and start all over again. I dont see how removing levels prevent the same player from grinding content then deleting character over and over again if thats what they like.

How about try to get map completion then delete your character after you get that instead of level grinding.

Knighthonor.4061:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

I sort of like levels… I’m ok with having them.

I know if levels were removed I’d have at least 1 guildie that wouldn’t know what to do with herself. It’s literally all she does. She makes a character, builds it to 80, wipes it and starts over. The girl can’t set and focus on a long term goal even if her life depended on it, but she can roll and reroll a character to 80…. forever and ever. Its a little strange.

She/he could just play the game, complete task then wipe the character and start all over again. I dont see how removing levels prevent the same player from grinding content then deleting character over and over again if thats what they like.

How about try to get map completion then delete your character after you get that instead of level grinding.

I think it has something to do with the levels for her. I honestly don’t know. I mean, I’ve tried helping her set and work towards other goals… like map completion, or dungeon master, or hell, even getting ONE craft to 400. She just could not do it. I was utterly stumped.

Knighthonor.4061:

Progression doesnt have to be character levels though.
Nowhere is it stated that a MMO needs to have Character levels in order for it to be a MMO. UO didnt have character levels yet was the first MMO.

Agreed on progression doesn’t have to be character levels.

However, in place of character levels, UO had skill levelling. Given how it replaced it, there was probably content in UO that you couldn’t do without reaching a certain level of skill, right? As in, you couldn’t go to a hard dungeon straight off the bat.

In essence, they’re both the same thing; content gates.

Levels are a system to slow down progress, so you get time to learn your skills and such, so by the time you get the next skill, you had time to get acquainted with the one you just unlocked.

But who needs to unlock an learn the same skills and traits over and over?

They should make it so after you reach level 80 with a profession, you unlock the option to make a character of that profession directly at level 80 with a noticeable checkbox in the character selection screen. (With a small gem cost so it’s not used for key farmers to get their farming faster, and a warning telling you’ll spend gems when accepting the character created.)

Also, traits and skills ever unlocked by any character should be unlocked for all characters of that profession for both PvP and characters created directly at level 80.

MithranArkanere.8957:

Levels are a system to slow down progress, so you get time to learn your skills and such, so by the time you get the next skill, you had time to get acquainted with the one you just unlocked.

But who needs to unlock an learn the same skills and traits over and over?

They should make it so after you reach level 80 with a profession, you unlock the option to make a character of that profession directly at level 80. (With a small gem cost so it’s not used for key farmers to get their farming faster.)

Also, traits and skills ever unlocked by any character should be unlocked for all characters of that profession for both PvP and characters created directly at level 80.

I can agree with the thought line of ‘if you unlock it in pve, it’s unlocked in pvp.’ That’s how it worked in GW1. You could unlock things via pve or you could spend balth faction to unlock them. It should be similar here, imo. You can unlock it in pve by playing or you can spend gold to unlock it (in either mode).

I don’t agree with ‘if you unlock it for one, it unlocks for all’ though. However, I’m a GW1 vet and it didn’t work like that in GW1. If I had 2 rits, I still had to go skill hunt or cap for each one. I didn’t get Wanderlust on both just because I capped it on the first one.

I don’t feel like leveling is a grind.
I never look at my XP bar and generally don’t know my level until I log in the next day.
I often forget to spend skill points for days at a time.
I don’t get why people make work from a game. Isn’t the point of playing a game to relax and enjoy yourself?
I enjoy having levels, and even when I get to cap, I will still enjoy the game. I play for fun gameplay, not to add work-induced stress to my life.

viralthefrog.6130:

I don’t feel like leveling is a grind.
I never look at my XP bar and generally don’t know my level until I log in the next day.
I often forget to spend skill points for days at a time.
I don’t get why people make work from a game. Isn’t the point of playing a game to relax and enjoy yourself?
I enjoy having levels, and even when I get to cap, I will still enjoy the game. I play for fun gameplay, not to add work-induced stress to my life.

Why do you enjoy levels? You yourself just said you never look at them, you dont even know when you do or what level you are. You dont even spend the points when you get them.

So the only reason i can see is that you like seeing a number that goes up giving you a sense of progression, because your own statements seem ti imply that leveling affects nothing in your game play at all. Which in itself i would think would be an arguement for removing levels.

But mostly that is why leveling is there. Because people like to feel like they are going somewhere. Even when they aren’t.

Knighthonor.4061:

DakotaCoty.5721:

I don’t know ANY MMO games that don’t use a form of leveling as a way of progression. Not one.

Many MMOs dont. the first MMOs didnt have character levels. it had other forms of progression.
Didnt need a number on your avatar to tell you your progression.

You’ve been trumpeting this same tune for months now. How many of the first MMOs didn’t have levels? Because leveling is a staple of RPGs. Not having levels is the exception, not the rule.

If GW2 removed leveling, I’d quit.

Leveling up is a integral part of any RPG, tabletop or otherwise. GW2 is classified as an MMORPG (Massive Multiplayer Online Role Playing Game) for a reason. Without having some sort of character progression (i.e. leveling) It’s not by definition, an RPG. Even if the classic idea of leveling were removed from this game, there would be no “starting out at level 80” because level 80 wouldn’t mean anything. But even with the idea of aquiring new traits and abilities as you progress it’s still a form of leveling up. You character is getting better as they proceed through the story, events, dungeons, etc. Which is the whole point of “leveling up” anyway. Also without Leveling, the is no way to measure your progess or strength. All Mobs would be the same difficulty, The bandits in Queensdale would be as tough as Ice Brood colossi in Frostgorge. Having champions, elites, and veterans would be meaningless, because those designations mean they are of a higher level. Gear would become meaningless. What would it matter if you had the exotic “kitten greatsword of awesomeness”? It being exotic means its a higher level than rare or masterwork. It would be the same as the “OK sword of Meh” Stats would have to be the same on both. because there is no levels.

Not having levels, would make this similiar to Second Life, just set in Tyria. It would be boring as all get out.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

[…]

I can agree with the thought line of ‘if you unlock it in pve, it’s unlocked in pvp.’ That’s how it worked in GW1. You could unlock things via pve or you could spend balth faction to unlock them. It should be similar here, imo. You can unlock it in pve by playing or you can spend gold to unlock it (in either mode).

I don’t agree with ‘if you unlock it for one, it unlocks for all’ though. However, I’m a GW1 vet and it didn’t work like that in GW1. If I had 2 rits, I still had to go skill hunt or cap for each one. I didn’t get Wanderlust on both just because I capped it on the first one.

It was like that for PvP characters and heroes.

There’s no heroes, but every character in GW2 is a PvP character while in the PvP areas. Aren’t amulets and upgradesunlocked account-wide in PvP? So should be skill and traits.

But, that’s just PvP. Each character would still have to unlock their own stuff in PvE.

But buying them should be at least cheaper. For example, if you have two engineers, after one unlocks a trait, the other one would have it cheaper in the trainer (but still be able to unlock it with events) and after one gets a skill unlocked, the other one only has to spend 1/5 of that and at least 1 (1…5-> 1, 6…10->2, 11…15->3, 16…25->5, 16…30->6, etc) to unlock the same skill.

This also happened in GW1 in a way. Thanks to skill tomes, after getting a skill the other characters had an easier time getting that skill again.

As for “straight to 80” having also those skills and traits unlocked too, that’ll compensate for the gem costs. The gem costs for a “straight to 80” character have to be there as long as there’s keys for level 10 personal story, as coins won’t be enough.

The idea behind this reducing the restrictions on having many characters, so there’s nothing stopping anyone from getting more character slots.

pdavis.8031:

Leveling up is a integral part of any RPG, tabletop or otherwise. GW2 is classified as an MMORPG (Massive Multiplayer Online Role Playing Game) for a reason. Without having some sort of character progression (i.e. leveling) It’s not by definition, an RPG. Even if the classic idea of leveling were removed from this game, there would be no “starting out at level 80” because level 80 wouldn’t mean anything. But even with the idea of aquiring new traits and abilities as you progress it’s still a form of leveling up. You character is getting better as they proceed through the story, events, dungeons, etc. Which is the whole point of “leveling up” anyway. Also without Leveling, the is no way to measure your progess or strength. All Mobs would be the same difficulty, The bandits in Queensdale would be as tough as Ice Brood colossi in Frostgorge. Having champions, elites, and veterans would be meaningless, because those designations mean they are of a higher level. Gear would become meaningless. What would it matter if you had the exotic “kitten greatsword of awesomeness”? It being exotic means its a higher level than rare or masterwork. It would be the same as the “OK sword of Meh” Stats would have to be the same on both. because there is no levels.

Not having levels, would make this similiar to Second Life, just set in Tyria. It would be boring as all get out.

Isnt that mostly what they did with down scaling? Honestly if they balanced all the mobs around level 80 or 1 it wouldn’t matter, since that is exactly what they are trying to achieve by having you scale down or up in content. The only thing that changes is the number by your name. Oh and i forgot the can lock you out of content by making it outlevel you. Just an artificial time gate in your way.

Wryscher.1432:

viralthefrog.6130:

I don’t feel like leveling is a grind.
I never look at my XP bar and generally don’t know my level until I log in the next day.
I often forget to spend skill points for days at a time.
I don’t get why people make work from a game. Isn’t the point of playing a game to relax and enjoy yourself?
I enjoy having levels, and even when I get to cap, I will still enjoy the game. I play for fun gameplay, not to add work-induced stress to my life.

Why do you enjoy levels? You yourself just said you never look at them, you dont even know when you do or what level you are. You dont even spend the points when you get them.

So the only reason i can see is that you like seeing a number that goes up giving you a sense of progression, because your own statements seem ti imply that leveling affects nothing in your game play at all. Which in itself i would think would be an arguement for removing levels.

But mostly that is why leveling is there. Because people like to feel like they are going somewhere. Even when they aren’t.

If there were no levels, I would not be inclined to go out and actually explore the zones.
I would probably end up sitting in one part of the game (WvW or sPvP) and not get the full experience.
Although I don’t care what level I am, or about SP or experience in general, it does motivate me on a subconscious level to do more exploration.

@Wryscher

That may have been their intent with level scaling in lower level zones. But it doesn’t work apparently. As a level 80 in a starter zone, you can 1-2 hit mobs and kill them, however in a level 80 zone…not so much. But thats besides the point. The point is removing leveling all together won’t work.

As people we, by nature, have a need for progression in one form or another. The more visible, the better. Thats why many RPG games, of all sorts, are so poplular. There needs to be a sense of accomplishment, otherwise there wouldn’t be anyone who would play them for long. But I digress. Removing leveling would take a MAJOR point of the game away leaving naught but a boring empty shell, and leave us questioning our existance.

Nerelith.7360:

DakotaCoty.5721:

I don’t know ANY MMO games that don’t use a form of leveling as a way of progression. Not one.

There are games that have no levelling. But those are primarilly action games, and FPS… etc. The MMO that takes levelling out of it’s experience ceases to be an MMO…

well said.

But Guild Wars 2 is a bullet time action game not an MMO.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Is-not-having-the-Holy-Trinity-good-or-bad/3160310

Those are some of my thoughts on the rpg relic called “levels” and how they are left over from, and are directly related to, the trinity system.

Removing the trinity was only partially done in GW2. If they really wanted to remove it then they should have removed the other elements of MMORPGs that only exist in a game because the trinity demands they exist.

Removal of the trinity entails much more than simply removing dedicated healer/tank/dps roles from the game. Fully removing the trinity also demands removal of the pointless relics that no longer have justification for existing; character level, armor weight class restrictions, weapons restriction by class, base stats varying from class to class, etc.

Due to removing these other obsolete concepts directly tied to the trinity, the advancement system should have been tied to skill usage (aka – actual experience using skills) and not to some irrational, unjustified, dictated, blanket stat increaser (character level).

I expand on these thoughts at that link from some time ago if anyone is interested in seeing some more thoughts on that subject.

Paraphrasing what Purple Miku stated so appropriately – how does sitting back and making a ton of cookies suddenly cause a player to become more effective in combat with absolutely all weapons and skills against all types of enemies?

Also, why, after killing 1-5 enemies, do I suddenly know how to do some new skill with my weapon? Shouldn’t I first have to learn how to perform that skill from someone who knows how to do it…like a skill trainer? Shouldn’t I get better and more effective with a skill the more I use it? Why do I suddenly have poison to put on my arrows (ranger short bow 2) simply because I’ve shot a few enemies in their face with plain arrows? Shouldn’t I have to learn to how to mix the poison to then be able to apply it to my arrows? Shouldn’t my poison get more toxic to enemies with more experience making and perfecting the poison?

:\ Perhaps one day a game will be like that. Watered-down character and skill progression that lacks any kind of depth, challenge or reason is alright for a short while, but not something that can demand and retain attention, or provide continuing enjoyment for very long. It’s ok for passing time when one feels in the mood for mindless gameplay with superficial progression that does not demand much effort after a long day, but there is no reason why a game, this game, cannot offer that to players as well as offering depth and challenges for those that desire it. There is too much uniformity in gameplay experience as dictated by The Company, and even less freedom every day to play how we want to and to excel in the areas we desire and enjoy. Sweet irony, apparently. Oh well. As I said, perhaps one day.

I would love to see leveling taken out of this game altogether. I have 2 toons at 80 as is, but have been bored playing them, so I have been leveling my ranger since the new patch hit. Well, since I have already done all the available world content twice now, and there hasn’t been almost any new permanent content added that I haven’t experienced yet, leveling ranger is proving to be a massive grind with no a shred of fun involved.

Anet seems to love fishing for money with every new update, so I don’t see why they don’t just add a gem shop item that lvls you to 80 so you can bypass the horrendous leveling process in this game. I will admit, the first time I leveled my guardian to 80, I was really engulfed in the story and exploration of new zones. Now that I have 100%’d the map and done the story, every character I level makes it harder and harder to play, to the point where I can really only play my ~30-45 warrior or ranger for about 30 min before I log out of the game due to boredom.

If they want leveling to stay fresh, they should add some new permanent content, maybe some new zones for people to explore and get experience in, because right now I’m basically getting the same leveling experience as I did at release due to the lack of new zones and content since release.

Nerelith.7360:

here are games that have no levelling. But those are primarilly action games, and FPS… etc. The MMO that takes levelling out of it’s experience ceases to be an MMO…

well said.

This game, by far, tries to be a FPS than an MMO. The whole combat system and that we are nothing but killing machines in game pretty much proves that point.

ArenaNet themselves admitted that they originally planned NOT to have levels, that they didn’t like them, and that they would have preferred to have everything available to the player as soon as they create a character, every zone equal level of difficulty.

The only reason ArenaNet changed there mined is because they felt us the players needed “direction” when playing the game.

So basically the only reason levelling up exists in this game is because ArenaNet thinks were stupid….

They should just remove it. It was there original plan… oh wait ArenaNet abandoned all there original plans and concepts for this game.

GW2 could implement start at level 80 and here’s how.

Lock traits behind advancing the personal story, or map completion. Leave skills as is, because you still need to go out and earn skills.

Easy.

Arnath.2319:

The only reason ArenaNet changed there mined is because they felt us the players needed “direction” when playing the game.

So basically the only reason levelling up exists in this game is because ArenaNet thinks were stupid….

It was the Alpha testers actually.

They complained about lack of direction, thus levels and Hearts.

TheDaiBish.9735:

Arnath.2319:

The only reason ArenaNet changed there mined is because they felt us the players needed “direction” when playing the game.

So basically the only reason levelling up exists in this game is because ArenaNet thinks were stupid….

It was the Alpha testers actually.

They complained about lack of direction, thus levels and Hearts.

That’s really funny though, as doing hearts and leveling a toon from 1-80 is probably one of the activities I dislike most in GW2, lol. To each their own though, I’m sure some people out there like exploring the same zones that were available at release 2-8+ times to level their other classes.

Dabis.6240:

That’s really funny though, as doing hearts and leveling a toon from 1-80 is probably one of the activities I dislike most in GW2, lol. To each their own though, I’m sure some people out there like exploring the same zones that were available at release 2-8+ times to level their other classes.

I think Hearts are quite a good idea; permanent advancement, and the NPC’s remember you. It’d be nice if they added / changed what they had to offer from time to time though.

As for levelling, I don’t take much notice. I turn off all my map icons and just play. I find the experience more fulfilling that way.

I love when people complain about businesses fishing for money.
How do you run a business? By making money.
How does a business fail? By not making money.
So, it makes sense, that a business would be looking to increase the money they make at any given opportunity.
GW2 is not pay to win, yet everyone complains about the gem shop like it IS pay to win.
Good laughs.

Nerelith.7360:

DakotaCoty.5721:

I don’t know ANY MMO games that don’t use a form of leveling as a way of progression. Not one.

There are games that have no levelling. But those are primarilly action games, and FPS… etc. The MMO that takes levelling out of it’s experience ceases to be an MMO…

The manifesto was about breaking the standard MMO conventions…

OP, I’m 100% behind you on this. It’s how it should have always been.

I wonder why we should play at all. Just give us end level characters fully equipped with BiS gear.

So we only have to stay around in one place and get bored…LOL

I’d buy a scroll that gave my characters 80 levels worth of experience… we already have a level 20 one, make it happen.

Levels are pointless boring padding to this game. Either get rid of them, or reduce the amount of levels to 20 and give players something meaningful every level. Right now you get a single skillpoint for most levels, which is close to meaningless.

Levels gate maps and nothing more.

viralthefrog.6130:

I love when people complain about businesses fishing for money.
How do you run a business? By making money.
How does a business fail? By not making money.
So, it makes sense, that a business would be looking to increase the money they make at any given opportunity.
GW2 is not pay to win, yet everyone complains about the gem shop like it IS pay to win.
Good laughs.

…what? This thread has nothing to do with the gemstore. Literally nothing.

Being able to progress smoothly through the main story at my leisure would be nice.
I’d prefer it if instead of having levels, we simply focused on acquiring skill and trait points and new skills/traits/equipment to get stronger.
It’s not fun being constantly stuck grinding away specific events in specific zones in order to gain 5-10 levels so I can continue on with the fun stuff.

DakotaCoty.5721:

I don’t know ANY MMO games that don’t use a form of leveling as a way of progression. Not one.

So?

The first 20 levels should unlock traits and increases in power of gear. Past that, levels should just be an indication of how many times you’ve leveled. Adding to that, levels shouldn’t simply stop at 80.

Nerelith.7360:

DakotaCoty.5721:

I don’t know ANY MMO games that don’t use a form of leveling as a way of progression. Not one.

There are games that have no levelling. But those are primarilly action games, and FPS… etc. The MMO that takes levelling out of it’s experience ceases to be an MMO…

well said.

Even FPS games have begun to use level progression for their multi-player actually.

I dislike it there, but yeah.

Downscaling and upscaling have both been poorly done. I don’t believe Anet can properly do either. It’s best just to make all zones level 80 (with exception of starter zones, maybe) —it’d make Anet’s job easier.